Bang Zoom Predicts the Demise of Anime

Since that forum is clogged full of people who obviously live off of fansubs and don’t spend a red cent on anime, I’ll post my comments here, where the audience seems to be more reasonable as a whole.

Sherman may be over-simplifying things, but it’s not like it isn’t true. I believe fan subs have their place, but it’s a thin line to cross over to piracy. If you’re viewing an unsanctioned copy of an anime, guess what, you’re a criminal. If you buy a legimate copy, you’re free and clear. Seems simple enough to me.

What gets me is these “fans” are blaming the industry for failing them and making unreasonable (and false) claims about how anime is expensive. Yes, it is, but not as expensive as some of these guys are making out to be. If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it, but don’t steal it either. They go on about how capitalism states it makes no sense to buy something when you can get it for free. It also states you can’t break into a store and take what you like. Is anybody home?

Yes, Sherman is pointing fingers, but again, it’s not like it’s not true.

I suppose I’m a little too hard on the downloaders and not the fansubbers themselves, but I would have assumed it was natural to acuse them of being the problem since they’re the ones doing it. But you have to admit, if no one was watching fansubs and inflating their egos, many fan subbers would not do it anymore. Sometimes its all for the 15 minutes. So I retract my statement. Both fansubbers and fansub viewers are part of the problem.

I can’t believe their are still people who don’t understand this. No, you’re not stealing a physical item, so that part is true. What you are stealing is the content, as you’re watching it for free without any comensation going to the company that created it, and that’s why you’re paying for those DVDs. Sure, you can watch it with a friend or at an anime convention, but legally someone (should have) purchased a legal copy, and if it’s a private viewing, you’re covered. As for an anime con, you’re supposed to ask for permission, and most companies will give it to you free of charge. It’s all about going through the proper channels.

It costs companies maybe $2-$3 to make the actual disc, so theft of the media is not as big of deal as the theft of the content they paid thousands of dollars for.

I agree anime companies need to get with the digital program. Utilizing Xbox Live and the Playstation Store more extensively seems the best way to deter pirates, because customers would have the ease of downloading (and to a system connect to a TV; no more desktop viewing!)

If price point is an issue, I’m not seeing the problem. Sentai and Funimation have been releasing 13 episode DVDs that are available for $24 from day one. That’s less than the $2+ per episode we would be charged per episode via download. It certainly beats the $28 per 4 episode DVD from eight years ago and crushes $20+ per 3 episode dubbed VHS fom just eleven years ago. Anime fans now have a great, there’s just no room for complaining. For a dinosaur like me who prefers the ease of DVDs, it’s been nothing but plusses throughout.

I’m not convinced physical media is a problem. Look at video games. Most mainstream hits are released on physical media first, and then, maybe, they’ll get a value-priced digital release down the line. You people flock to midnight releases. If you could play illegal pirates of 360 games as easily as you could download anime, we’d be having a very similar discussion. It’s all about accessibility.

What shows are you people watching? If “fans” would stop commenting on what they’ve heard about Vampire Bund or Strike Witches without actually watching an episode or ranting about how Chris Handley is a pedophile as they download their illegal fansubs, they would notice a vast ocean of amazing anime. Sgt Frog has been coming out regularly for $24 (bilingual!), Slayers Revolution came out last month, and Gintama was a recent release, just to name very few. We’re getting Fist of the North Star and Dirty Pair later this year.

Seriously, if you don’t like loli, don’t watch it and leave the rest of us alone. There’s so much great anime out there (and coming out) that don’t include underage panty shots (most of it, in fact, is loli pantsu free!) there’s no point in even fussing about the “future of anime” because of the content of a handful of releases.

Of course fansubbing doesn’t contribute to all of the sales losses; assuming that is just ignorant. You’re forgetting Chinese piracy, which rules eBay, and fan apathy. If people don’t care enough to own a series, you’re not going to get sales no matter what. It’s more of a problem for anime because it’s such a niche market. When I hear stories of DVDs selling 100 or so copies, I cringe. And buy it up before it’s gone.

Rentals aren’t a problem because the rental companies have to pay for them. Borrowing from friends, watching anime at cons, and buying used are certainly not putting money in anime companies’ pockets, but you’ll have that with anything. At least someone had to purchase a legal copy to begin with. Fansubs only benefit the egos of fansubbers, though we can pray they help sell some DVDs in the end.

So if anime companies hit up Xbox Live and the Playstation Store for selling their content, we’d see an improvement (and a drop in piracy!). Getting with the trends isn’t a bad thing, but it might not be fianically possible for some companies either way. We won’t see an improvement, however, if “fans” keep blaming the anime companies for all of the world’s problems. If you don’t like their prices/content, DON’T BUY IT. You can certainly do without if you don’t care enough to support them so they can bring more anime to you.

I do believe many fans have let the industry down. Everytime you decide to take a self-righteous stance and download a fansub with no intention of buying a legit copy, you’re giving the anime industry the finger. If you love anime, bite the bullet and pay that $24 for 13 episodes and remember you could live in Japan and pay $24 for one.

I used to be one of those poor abused teenagers, and yes, we did partake in our share of copying anime. And we went on to spend thousands of dollars on anime over the years. These are the upsides of the equation, and I won’t deny them. Yet the “fans” I’m talking about are not like this. They will never compensate the anime companies, just take, take, take like entitled internet brats. No one can debate these actions are harmful. It’s like someone taking something from you with the promise to pay you back for it and they never do. Regardless of circumstances, you wouldn’t be too happy about it.
John has said it before: anime is not a right, but a privledge, and I’m grateful to get what I can. Yeah, I’m pretty idealistic when it comes to anime. Always have been since I started. I can’t stand the thought of idiots coming in and mucking it up for those who care. I invite anyone who wants to argue with me about this to GarasuNoShiCon (glasscitycon.com) and attend my panel on the subject.

chise: At what point did I suggest anime fans go in blind? At what point did I suggest fansubs are 100% Hilteriffic evil? You’re cherry-picking my statements and using what you like to validate a part of the problem that faces our American anime industry (I should start being more specific about this because this is really the point of the arguement).

I’ll say it again, so please take note of it: FANSUBS HAVE THEIR GOOD POINTS. I never denied this and I never will. Through fansubs, I’ve been exposed to series that I went out and purchased. That’s the key here: I WENT OUT AND PURCHASED THEM. Every anime in my collection that has a US counterpart is legit. The only exceptions are a couple of titles that haven’t been released here (or intact, like Kinnikuman, but I do have a legal copy of the 4Kids abomination). Fansubs have been a BENEFIT to distribution companies because I liked what I say and made the purchase.

Fansubs are bad, however, when people do not make the purchase or support the show in some way. Like it or not, anime is a commercial art, and can only exist if you pony up the cash via merchadise, including home video releases. Yes, there are countries that don’t see anime releases. They also don’t see video game, movie, or TV show releases from foreign countries either. Anime is the same thing, only smaller. If you created a show and your livelihood was making money from that show, you’d be pretty mad if I just downloaded a copy of it from online and you never saw a red cent. Put the show on the other foot.

For those places who can’t get their entertainment fix, ironically the internet is their to connect them to people who will send legal DVDs all over the world. I’ve personally sold anime to fans living in several countries (even Japan!) and more to the military than I can count. Where there’s a will, there’s a way, and sadly there seems to be no will among many “fans.” If they don’t have the legal means to import? Sorry, SOL, that’s the way of the world. If that’s the case, I’m guessing those people have more things to worry about than entertainment.

Again, to quote John, anime is a privledge, not a right, and fans should be grateful for what they have.

Yes, in a perfect world, people would play nice and do the right thing (not getting into a deep discussion on what’s right, so let’s just use the Golden Rule example). And this is not a perfect world, obviously. Yet I dont’ see police ignoring crime because, hey, it ain’t a perfect world, so they’ll just let it slide. But if you’re going to go that way, fine, that’s you’re own personal decision and you can deal with the consquences however you want. Just don’t shout from the rooftops about how you’re fighting the evil anime companies who don’t conform to your will (as the unpaying customer) and act like your selfish personal indulgence is somehow part of a revolution. If you’re going to pirate anime, please do it quietly and don’t tear down the companies that pay good money to bring us anime and make a buck in the process (because they are a business).

As for the legal sources of sampling, yes, it could be better, but considering what anime was a scant eight years ago, there are a lot of options to sample anime legally (and free), and few fans can legitamately complain they don’t have access. Both Funimation and Anime Network have an extensive list of shows available for free viewing (some don’t even have DVD versions).

You keep bringing up Crunchyroll despite the fact I’ve never mentioned it. While it’s true they do cost money for some shows, a lot of the viewing is free. I don’t like bringing them up because the contributed to the piracy of anime before they became legit because their success forced a lot of companies to use them. Even though I don’t support them, I can’t deny they are great source for legal anime.

Yes, you do have to pay for these services. You know what else you have to pay for? Cable and satellite TV. And I don’t here any complaints about that. Even with the free stuff, you have to watch commercials. While the Japanese have more legal access to free anime, we have more legal access to our shows, and I’ve seen a number of Asian pirated versions of those floating around, so it’s a similar principle.

I would love it if every anime fan in the world had affordable access to their passion, but the world is not a perfect place. On a tour of the Gulf of Mexico, I came across a shop where pirated anime (and other movies) were being sold for full retail price, and legal video games and consoles (which were harder to pirate) going for over double what they went for in the States. That’s why American fans are so damn lucky that we have affordable anime and lots of ways to watch it compared to many other countries.

It seems simply physchotic to complain about the companies bring us this entertainment are doing it wrong when we are luckier than the foreign citizens who you claim are downtrodden because they don’t have access to the same resources we do. There indutry (or lack thereof) has failed them far worse than our existing industry has, so complain to country you’re in for not supporting your needs and leave the US companies who support the needs of US fans (however flawed this support may be to some).

Using the mentality of supporting shows through legal content purchase, I would never want to live in Japan, where one episode costs as much a box set here, because anime producers in Japan believe in selling a few units at a high price. If you want that alternative solution to the US market, be my guest. I’ll enjoy my 13 episodes of Gintama for the price you paid for your one.

And stop calling me sir. It’s offensive to legit sirs around the world.

PetrifiedJello: The rules are a little different in the States. Over in Japan, they have merch for just about every anime ever, and that is where they make their cash, just like here with are cartoons. No arguement there.

How many anime figures and other merch have been domestically released here? Not that much by comparison, mostly limited to shirts, buttons, and knick-knacks. Otherwise, fans must (dear God!) import the cool merch from Japan. Great for the Japanese companies, dont’ get me wrong there. Doesn’t do a thing for the American distribution companies, though.

How I would love to have easy access to every anime figure or collectable the Japanese have (my wife would kill me, though), but sadly, this is not the case. The majority (if not all) of the profits the companies that bring we the whiny American fans our anime are the DVDs sales. In American (and excuse me for being selfish about explaining how my county’s anime industry works), distribution companies have to pay licensing fees, production fees, dub costs (if they do dub), and packaging fees, plus more than I’m not even mentioning, and the only way they make that back is by DVD sales.

TV shows are paid for by selling commercials. If a show isn’t being viewed, advertisers drop it like it had the plague, and no more money for the networks, so they drop the show. Anime doesn’t have this luxury, as most of it never hits are airwaves, and the (mostly) uncut titles don’t do that well selling ad space because not enough people watch them (even the people who want something for nothing).

Shows like Pokemon and Digimon are targeted at mainstream audiences and the advertisers love it. They can also sell a boatload of toys to children. They have millions of dollars to throw around in their marketing campaigns and lots of cash to be had by al because the audience is so massive.

Fans of anime proper don’t have the numbers to support this. We don’t purchase figures and other merch in nearly the numbers parents do for their kids. Even if we had the same number of fans, I suspect the sales numbers wouldn’t even come close, as the audience for anime is older and less likely to buy “toys” because it’s not socially acceptable and most fans are casual enough that they give a damn about what society thinks of them, as opposed to the otaku of Japan (and some here), who don’t give mainstream social values much thought in regards to figures.

Back to TV. TV has commercials and merchadising to make the shows money. Fan subbing does not. Fans subs have no sponsers paying the networks who are paying the show’s producers. They’re a bunch of nerds who download captured TV broadcasts from Japan, slam out a translation, and send it on. I wish American companies could work this fast (sometimes they do), but they have to worry about red tape, licensing fees, ect. Fansubbers work outside of the law and do it for the passion of anime (and I’m sure there are still a few) or their 15 minutes, but not money (I hope not anyway).

Fansubs only benefit the original Japanese company if merchandise is purchased and they only benefit American companies if the DVDs are purchased (small amounts of other merch be damned). That’s it, there’s no other way. No commericial sponsers, massive marketing campaigns, or tons of domestic merchadise. You don’t buy the DVD, American companies (and to a lesser extent, the Japanese companies) don’t get paid. That’s the difference.

So I say you pay for content. Under the opposing logic, you would do just as way buying a used dollar copy of Sideways instead of Gunbuster (over $30 used), if content didn’t matter. Distribution companies pay for the rights to the content, and pass to costs onto fans. For the American anime industry, content is the only way they make any real money to sustain. If you don’t pay these production costs by purchasing the content on the DVDs. It really is that simple.

Again, if anyone wants to rip aside the veil of anonymity and discuss this with me, I’ll see you at the convention!

I guess addict is one way to put it, but as someone who says they’ve had enough, I suppose it would be hard to understand. I’m not really a big fan of paying for digital content because the downsides out-weigh the advantages for me, and I know I would feel less inclined to purchase if anime was digital-only, but I would still do it. I freely admit I’m an old dinosaur who prefers getting a physical item for my money, even if that physical item is not worth more than a couple of bucks.

End of the world? More like a zombie apocalypse where I’m well-fortified with limited supplies. I could spend years going through what I currently own and haven’t watch and purchasing what’s left out there. Then it will come down to the fansubs (irony!) of what wasn’t released. That should sustain, but I would be heartbroken over the idea no new anime would be produced.

I can tell anime is a disposable commodity to you and most fans. For myself and my close anime friends, anime was a life-changing event, a secret society where we found an identity. Don’t laugh, you have sports fans, Trekkies, comic book nerds, and more doing the same thing. We just found something different. Yes, anime means a lot to me, and if anyone has a problem with that, screw ’em. When someone crosses the line and starts telling people what they are and aren’t allowed to feel about something, there’s simply no hope for them.

I could get my fix via fansubs, just like many “fans,” but as I respect anime and the American anime industry, I prefer to do things the right way. It’s not just about me getting my fix. If it were that simple I’d be on the fansubber’s side completely. No, I respect anime and want to give back where I can, and my part of the effort is buying legit DVDs. It’s a personal interest, and to expect me to agree with people who criticize without a rebuttle is irresponsible. If I start attacking your religious beliefs, are you just going to take it. And yes, anime is close to religion for me, despite its faults.

I’m not afraid of TV anime going under because it will never happen. As long as we have Japanese TV entertainment, there will be anime somewhere. No, my issue is when you have self-loathing fans heaving heavy hatred at their own hobby. What’s the point of being a fan if you hate what you’re a fan of? I don’t understand it, but I know not everyone cares as much as I do.

While I like manga, I don’t care for it as much as anime. So saying I should move my interests to manga because it’s close enough really doesn’t make any sense. Same with computer games and ads. Good for the people working on it, but if that’s what they wanted to do, they would do it and not work on an anime production where the pay is abysmal. It’s all about the passion.

The difference between me and a “fansub addict” is when I make my purchase, I’m helping the industry. Fansub addicts only help themselves. If you don’t care about that (and I can tell you really don’t), that’s totally your call. Just don’t tell me I should be content with my hobby going up in dust because there’s something that’s close enough. That’s just arrogant.

I agree that eco-friendly solutions are important, but let’s start on our cars and not on nerd toys that don’t have as much impact to really help out.

Wow, kyouki, that last comment is pretty low and condraditary to the “you can do whatever you want” comment. Not going to get into the politics of it, though, but that’s just not appropriate here and smacks of pompous judgement. Good for you for giving to the Haiti victims, though. =D

People will do what they will, no stopping it, and I know for a fact eliminating fan subs won’t convert the non-payers to the fold. They’ll just be off to look for their next something-for-nothing. When fans spend their money on legal anime, they’re doing the legal thing. Right or wrong is something they have to determine for themselves.

I’ve said pretty much all I’m going to say on the topic, much to the delight of by detractors. It seems many of us are just arguing past each other. We all have our stances on the issue. It’s sad to see so many people who feel wronged by the anime industry here in America. I did learn a lot from some of you, however, and this is stuff I’ll take to my panel and present to other fans.

Yeah, I’m content with the DVD releases they way they are, but it seems other fans want digital download as their media of choice. If the fans aren’t buying, the companies will fail, and they haven’t exactly been pushing the digital content angle as for as it will go. I still say hitting up the consoles is the way to go. Most anime fans are gamers, and they should have a 360 or PS3, so they would be all set. Maybe they should make it a practice to offer the first episode of each series free.

Just please don’t expect something for nothing.