Would donations to companies be possible?

Zierlyn · November 2nd, 2007, 01:24 AM

I was thinking about the whole fansubbing debate, and ways people could support the Japanese anime production companies even if they are turned off by the idea of buying DVD's, when an idea occurred to me, and I'm curious if anyone would have better knowledge of the plausibility of my idea.

What if Japanese production companies set up donation pages on their website for individual shows?

Say for example, you just finished watching a particularly awesome episode of Shana, and you felt the urge to send $10 through paypal over to J.C. Staff to reward em for their hard work. Are companies allowed to set up something like that? They wouldn't even have to advertise it, as I am sure Fansubbing groups would gladly include links in their encodes if it meant supporting anime producers.

So I suppose my question is... is this a legally viable way for Anime Production companies to acquire income?

When you think about it... wouldn't you be tempted to donate to a particular show you enjoy to increase its budget? Wouldn't you be more likely to donate $2 an episode over the course of 6 months, than $52 a year or so after you watched the series and may have forgotten how much you enjoyed it? Anywho, that was the idea I had. Felt I needed to get it out.

It could turn the whole idea of faunsubbing being free advertising into a reality. Also, donations such as these would have the interesting effect of being an immediate return from the very first episode of a series being aired in Japan. If you saw the first episode of an anime and were completely blown away, wouldn't you be tempted to throw a few dollars towards the studio that produced it, knowing you would be personally adding to the budget of that show? If 5000 people donated $2, the studio would be sitting on $10000 before the second episode even airs.

Well. Some food for thought, anyway.

Leader Desslock · November 2nd, 2007, 01:43 AM

Ummmm... let me word it another way, and perhaps you'll see the potential flaw in your plan.

"Would it be possible for anime companies to set up a 'copyright infringement signup sheet', where folks who had downloaded their products could register their names, IP addresses and financial details? That way, licensors wouldn't have to spend so much time looking for copyright violators; they'd know exactly who to sue, and for which copyrights!"

Would you be foolish enough to turn yourself in like that? If so, then please forward me your PayPal details. I've got a great offer for you that's going to expire soon, so you'd better act fast...

There's a simple way for anime fans to support anime companies. Buy/rent releases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zierlyn

Wouldn't you be more likely to donate $2 an episode over the course of 6 months, than $52 a year or so after you watched the series and may have forgotten how much you enjoyed it? Anywho, that was the idea I had. Felt I needed to get it out.

Actually, $2 is nearing my upper limit for standard anime DVD purchases. And even if the shows were available for $2/episode, I still wouldn't spend it. Why? Because:

1) I don't watch any part of a series that isn't completed and completely released.

2) The $2 is how much I spend for an actual release. If the companies want me to waste my storage, processing time and bandwidth to cover their costs of distribution, then they need to lower their prices to reflect the fact that I'm not getting anything out of the transaction besides data. If they want to release a series at $1/ep, that'd be more like it, although I still wouldn't touch a series until it was completely available.

tenshi_a · November 2nd, 2007, 01:48 AM

I sometimes buy the CD soundtrack to a series, and/or maybe some merchandise, sometimes even before the series is out on DVD in Japan... that's one way of showing your support and getting your money to the original company while the show is still running...

...well, thinking about it, I suppose it only seems worth it if the series has a decent soundtrack... I forgot how often I watch anime based on who's doing the soundtrack...

Soluzar · November 2nd, 2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader Desslock

There's a simple way for anime fans to support anime companies. Buy/rent releases.

That's nice, if we're talking about anime that's released in America. If we're talking about anime which has not been and will never be released in America, that's just not possible. You can of course choose to not watch it, but that too fails to support the production company. I would propose that this is a better answer to the specific question being presented here.

The question: "How may fansub viewers support anime production companies?"

The answer: "By buying R2 DVDs direct from Japan."

If that seems too expensive, then I submit that the fansub viewer in question is not really asking how best to support the production of new anime. It must be stated that supporting American licensees does little to support the production of new Anime.

Then of course there is the secondary question which is posed by the original question:

The Secondary Question: "Does buying R2 DVDs make it legal to download fansubs?"

The Secondary Answer: "No way, no how. It's still illegal distribution."

Zierlyn · November 2nd, 2007, 02:09 AM

Well, if the anime isn't licensed for distribution in the US, then the Japanese authorities would have to convince American authorities to make the arrest, beyond that, there's also the fact that it's a simple donation, it doesn't have to be through paypal, that was just to reflect the ease of online donations. Since it's a one-way transaction, it could be implemented in a semi-anonymous fashion.

It should be pretty clear at this point that fansubbing is not going to stop, short of mobilizing a massive effort, costing anime producers lots of money. Could not a variation of this idea in some form be an alternative? Instead of stopping fansubs, using them to advertise donations?

And Leader Desslock, while you bring up a strong argument as to why you wouldn't donate, you have to admit that your personal preferences are in the minority. Also, don't take my numbers as indications that companies should start charging, or implement some silly DRM to try and stop fansubs. Bottom line is, officially produced translations usually pale in comparison to good fansubs. Admittedly, there are crappy subbers out there, just as there are some decent translators.

The ability for fans to donate to anime production studios would also help shows that would never get licensed for release in North America. Consider Kodomo no Jikan. There's no way that an American distributor is going to touch that with a 40' pole. But there are a lot of fans of the show that could be providing the studio with income, albeit small, it would still be more than the $0 the show is going to make from US DVD sales.

Justinian · November 2nd, 2007, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader Desslock

"Would it be possible for anime companies to set up a 'copyright infringement signup sheet', where folks who had downloaded their products could register their names, IP addresses and financial details? That way, licensors wouldn't have to spend so much time looking for copyright violators; they'd know exactly who to sue, and for which copyrights!"

What valid evidence would they have that proved you actually downloaded that series. You might just be making a donation. I don't really see a flaw in that if they have no evidence that you downloaded it in the first place. Unless you mean it will be easier for them to track you by you giving them your private info, but then they would be violating your rights if they used that info to track you. Then you could actually sue them (if they are American). (I know I'm probably missing a huge point somewhere, but that's just how I see it right now)
ps-actually about 3 or 4 people have won in cases against the RIAA for almost that same thing ^^^. ( They counter sued is what I'm saying)

DazarGaidin · November 2nd, 2007, 05:17 AM

Or, it would be like 'please donate money to relieve you conscious about all the fansubs you are gonna steal from us." Some people would see it like a liscense to steal. Hey i might download 500 gigs of anime, but i donate to the companies (2$)

Leader Desslock · November 2nd, 2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soluzar

The answer: "By buying R2 DVDs direct from Japan."

Oh, I just included that in the concept of 'releases'. I wasn't limiting it to R1. My bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zierlyn

Well, if the anime isn't licensed for distribution in the US, then the Japanese authorities would have to convince American authorities to make the arrest...

It's not a criminal law; it's civil law. There's only a lawsuit, not an arrest. And all they'd need to do is establish a US presence (a guy in an office with power of legal representation would be sufficient).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zierlyn

Bottom line is, officially produced translations usually pale in comparison to good fansubs.

Oh, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zierlyn

Kodomo no Jikan. There's no way that an American distributor is going to touch that with a 40' pole.

Never heard of it.

<researches>

Nope. And neither would I, if it was ever released on R1. But then, I've been wrong on a lot of titles over the last year, so... you never know. But in this case, I sure hope you're right.

Soluzar · November 2nd, 2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leader Desslock

Oh, I just included that in the concept of 'releases'. I wasn't limiting it to R1. My bad.

I'm sorry. Reading your post for a second time, there's nothing that limits it to American releases. I assumed you meant R1 DVD releases only because of the reference to rentals, but still... my post was unnecessary.

**John** · November 2nd, 2007, 11:32 AM

To provide a little bit of a technical response, the idea of Japanese production companies accepting donations may not be feasible for a number of reasons. Income must be accounted for in tax records, so donated income may be troublesome to account for, especially since anime studios are not charitable institutions. Dividing up donated funds or alloting them properly may also be troublesome for the studio's accounting to deal with. Dealing with currency exchange or accepting international payments from a variety of countries may also pose legal or financial difficulties.

On a slightly less technical front, Japanese culture has a distaste for "tipping." Service industry workers like waitresses, taxi drivers, and such don't accept tips becuase their good service is supposed to be just part of the job, not something to be specially rewarded for. The anime industry may adopt a similar attitude and refuse money that seems like gratuitity.

ZeroRyoko1974 · November 2nd, 2007, 12:44 PM

I guess another way, would be to buy Japanese products that advertise in anime. Course, commercials are edited out of fansubs ^^; and a lot of sponsers seem to be other anime companies like Gonzo. I have seen Mcdonalds before though, so go eat at Mcdonalds to support anime

Otani · November 3rd, 2007, 04:29 AM

thanks John for answering the OP's question.

I would support this idea but your info makes it sound kind of unlikely. I buy anime and would gladly fork over a little extra to a company like JCStaff, especially in light of recent discussion of the terribly low wages these guys make. I would see this in the same way as the membership to my local NPR station, supporting the cause. Yeah, buying even more anime is a way to do it but I can't speculate what portion of that money actually makes it back to the production houses.
Maybe as an alternative, do any of these production houses like Production IG or JCStaff have investors, or trade on the Japanese stock market? Would be wonderful to have anime production house penny stocks or mutual funds.

I spend maybe $400 or so on anime a year (about $250 on this recent Geneon sale alone) but how much of that realistically gets back to the guys making the anime?

DazarGaidin · November 3rd, 2007, 11:19 AM

Someone mentioned that you gotta buy dvds from japan to support the production. I think you support them even by buying them here, just more indirectly. If a show does really well here then the sequel can be sold to american licensee for more, and you know the companies factor all that in when they are making an anime, even if not as much as their japanese revenue.

November 2nd, 2007, 01:24 AM	#1
Zierlyn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2	Would donations to companies be possible? I was thinking about the whole fansubbing debate, and ways people could support the Japanese anime production companies even if they are turned off by the idea of buying DVD's, when an idea occurred to me, and I'm curious if anyone would have better knowledge of the plausibility of my idea. What if Japanese production companies set up donation pages on their website for individual shows? Say for example, you just finished watching a particularly awesome episode of Shana, and you felt the urge to send $10 through paypal over to J.C. Staff to reward em for their hard work. Are companies allowed to set up something like that? They wouldn't even have to advertise it, as I am sure Fansubbing groups would gladly include links in their encodes if it meant supporting anime producers. So I suppose my question is... is this a legally viable way for Anime Production companies to acquire income? When you think about it... wouldn't you be tempted to donate to a particular show you enjoy to increase its budget? Wouldn't you be more likely to donate $2 an episode over the course of 6 months, than $52 a year or so after you watched the series and may have forgotten how much you enjoyed it? Anywho, that was the idea I had. Felt I needed to get it out. It could turn the whole idea of faunsubbing being free advertising into a reality. Also, donations such as these would have the interesting effect of being an immediate return from the very first episode of a series being aired in Japan. If you saw the first episode of an anime and were completely blown away, wouldn't you be tempted to throw a few dollars towards the studio that produced it, knowing you would be personally adding to the budget of that show? If 5000 people donated $2, the studio would be sitting on $10000 before the second episode even airs. Well. Some food for thought, anyway.

November 2nd, 2007, 01:48 AM	#3
tenshi_a The beginning of a fantastic story! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cave of Monsters, England Posts: 8,665	I sometimes buy the CD soundtrack to a series, and/or maybe some merchandise, sometimes even before the series is out on DVD in Japan... that's one way of showing your support and getting your money to the original company while the show is still running... ...well, thinking about it, I suppose it only seems worth it if the series has a decent soundtrack... I forgot how often I watch anime based on who's doing the soundtrack... __________________ "We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing." Blog! \| 360voice blog! \| Gaming network tags \| Current Avatar \| Visit Tenshire Seiyuu database! <-- not just anime roles, lots more videogame data than ANN

November 2nd, 2007, 05:17 AM	#7
DazarGaidin =^..^= Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WV, USA Posts: 10,155 Blog Entries: 10	Or, it would be like 'please donate money to relieve you conscious about all the fansubs you are gonna steal from us." Some people would see it like a liscense to steal. Hey i might download 500 gigs of anime, but i donate to the companies (2$) __________________ The Third - FMP! - R.O.D. (TV) - kanon 06 - Planetes Natsume - Steins;Gate - Nodame Cantabile - Dennou Coil My Kid Friendly Anime List \| My Anime List

November 2nd, 2007, 12:44 PM	#11
ZeroRyoko1974 Mr. Zeroryoko1974 to you Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Akina Posts: 10,575	I guess another way, would be to buy Japanese products that advertise in anime. Course, commercials are edited out of fansubs ^^; and a lot of sponsers seem to be other anime companies like Gonzo. I have seen Mcdonalds before though, so go eat at Mcdonalds to support anime __________________ My Anime List Figures "It wont enix has been better then sqare since after snes we still remain sqaresoft just because of snes days." kulitsky33

November 3rd, 2007, 11:19 AM	#13
DazarGaidin =^..^= Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WV, USA Posts: 10,155 Blog Entries: 10	Someone mentioned that you gotta buy dvds from japan to support the production. I think you support them even by buying them here, just more indirectly. If a show does really well here then the sequel can be sold to american licensee for more, and you know the companies factor all that in when they are making an anime, even if not as much as their japanese revenue. __________________ The Third - FMP! - R.O.D. (TV) - kanon 06 - Planetes Natsume - Steins;Gate - Nodame Cantabile - Dennou Coil My Kid Friendly Anime List \| My Anime List

November 2nd, 2007, 02:09 AM	#5
Zierlyn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2	Well, if the anime isn't licensed for distribution in the US, then the Japanese authorities would have to convince American authorities to make the arrest, beyond that, there's also the fact that it's a simple donation, it doesn't have to be through paypal, that was just to reflect the ease of online donations. Since it's a one-way transaction, it could be implemented in a semi-anonymous fashion. It should be pretty clear at this point that fansubbing is not going to stop, short of mobilizing a massive effort, costing anime producers lots of money. Could not a variation of this idea in some form be an alternative? Instead of stopping fansubs, using them to advertise donations? And Leader Desslock, while you bring up a strong argument as to why you wouldn't donate, you have to admit that your personal preferences are in the minority. Also, don't take my numbers as indications that companies should start charging, or implement some silly DRM to try and stop fansubs. Bottom line is, officially produced translations usually pale in comparison to good fansubs. Admittedly, there are crappy subbers out there, just as there are some decent translators. The ability for fans to donate to anime production studios would also help shows that would never get licensed for release in North America. Consider Kodomo no Jikan. There's no way that an American distributor is going to touch that with a 40' pole. But there are a lot of fans of the show that could be providing the studio with income, albeit small, it would still be more than the $0 the show is going to make from US DVD sales.

November 2nd, 2007, 11:32 AM	#10
John Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,105	To provide a little bit of a technical response, the idea of Japanese production companies accepting donations may not be feasible for a number of reasons. Income must be accounted for in tax records, so donated income may be troublesome to account for, especially since anime studios are not charitable institutions. Dividing up donated funds or alloting them properly may also be troublesome for the studio's accounting to deal with. Dealing with currency exchange or accepting international payments from a variety of countries may also pose legal or financial difficulties. On a slightly less technical front, Japanese culture has a distaste for "tipping." Service industry workers like waitresses, taxi drivers, and such don't accept tips becuase their good service is supposed to be just part of the job, not something to be specially rewarded for. The anime industry may adopt a similar attitude and refuse money that seems like gratuitity.

November 3rd, 2007, 04:29 AM	#12
Otani Pesky Fox Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 34	thanks John for answering the OP's question. I would support this idea but your info makes it sound kind of unlikely. I buy anime and would gladly fork over a little extra to a company like JCStaff, especially in light of recent discussion of the terribly low wages these guys make. I would see this in the same way as the membership to my local NPR station, supporting the cause. Yeah, buying even more anime is a way to do it but I can't speculate what portion of that money actually makes it back to the production houses. Maybe as an alternative, do any of these production houses like Production IG or JCStaff have investors, or trade on the Japanese stock market? Would be wonderful to have anime production house penny stocks or mutual funds. I spend maybe $400 or so on anime a year (about $250 on this recent Geneon sale alone) but how much of that realistically gets back to the guys making the anime?