Japanese sentence structures

[sfried]

1. When does a sentence not end in です?

2. How do you indicate ones own position in the family? (Apparently, there's something about "Watashi wa otouto desu" that is said to not sound right.)

3. Are there other topic markers aside from は?

[Ken-Ohki]

Topic markers? Not sure what you mean, maybe your class teaches differently than I learned. Sentence particles which is what I've heard them called are wa, ga, o, ni, de, and a whole lot of others, learning the use of phrase particles is 40% of the language, the other 40% is conjugation.

When does a sentence not end in desu? Whenever you don't want it to. Desu is used to add politeness to a sentence, you can drop it whenever you want except in some situations when it's vital. It can also be replaced with other forms of desu like desho, datta, deshita, etc depending on the situation.

Your own position in a family? I'm not sure what you mean, "Watashi wa otouto desu" yeah, that doesn't sound right, are you saying you're a younger brother? My advice is don't, declare that you have older brothers and or sisters and how many. There's another way to declare which number you were born in if you're looking to say that.

[sfried]

Originally Posted by Ken-Ohki

When does a sentence not end in desu? Whenever you don't want it to. Desu is used to add politeness to a sentence, you can drop it whenever you want except in some situations when it's vital.

Does it become vital when answering a question, or is it completely situational? (Talking to a higher authority, etc.)

I'm not sure what you mean, "Watashi wa otouto desu" yeah, that doesn't sound right, are you saying you're a younger brother? My advice is don't, declare that you have older brothers and or sisters and how many. There's another way to declare which number you were born in if you're looking to say that.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[fujyoshi]

Originally Posted by sfried

1. When does a sentence not end in です?

2. How do you indicate ones own position in the family? (Apparently, there's something about "Watashi wa otouto desu" that is said to not sound right.)

3. Are there other topic markers aside from は?

1 when you wanna sound comman

2 not sure about that one I mean if you were to say you were someones little brother that would work

3 they are particals

[Gibb]

です is a verb and it means "he/she/it is". The way Japanese works makes this particular verb very common, but it's just a verb and there are plenty of other verbs.

あなた は　おもしろい　です。
anata wa omoshiroi desu. (You are interesting, or lit: you interesting is)
新聞 は　あります。
shinbun wa arimasu. (There is a newspaper, or lit: newspaper is there)


The proper term for "Topic markers" is "particles". There are plenty of them, with the most common ones being "wa", "ga", "ni", "o" (sometimes said as "wo" in romanji), and "de".

Here's a list of particles with what they mean:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_particles

新聞　を　よみました。
shinbun o yomimashita. (I (implied subject) read the newspaper, or lit: newspaper the was read)

As for your second question, I'm not really sure how best to do that.

[Victory]

1. At the polite level, sentences ending in verbs do not take です but rather the polite verb ending. In situations where you are required to be even more polite でございます can be substituted for です. At the familiar level, you do not use です. Feminine speech allows for use of です even at the familiar level. The polite level is used when talking to someone older or in a position of authority, or someone about your age with whom you are not familiar. です is also not used for incomplete sentences, and also in otherwise complete statements in which the verb is implied. I'm sure I'm not covering everything...

2. Apart from not specifying whose younger brother you are, I can't see the problem with that.　おとうと is humble, calling yourself おとうとさん would be incorrect indeed.

3. Wa is the only topic marker. Wa has also other functions and usages outside of just marking the topic. This and how close it is to "ga" make my head hurt when it comes to choosing the right one.

[sfried]

Originally Posted by Victory

1. At the polite level, sentences ending in verbs do not take です but rather the polite verb ending. In situations where you are required to be even more polite でございます can be substituted for です. At the familiar level, you do not use です. Feminine speech allows for use of です even at the familiar level. The polite level is used when talking to someone older or in a position of authority, or someone about your age with whom you are not familiar. です is also not used for incomplete sentences, and also in otherwise complete statements in which the verb is implied. I'm sure I'm not covering everything...

2. Apart from not specifying whose younger brother you are, I can't see the problem with that.　おとうと is humble, calling yourself おとうとさん would be incorrect indeed.

3. Wa is the only topic marker. Wa has also other functions and usages outside of just marking the topic. This and how close it is to "ga" make my head hurt when it comes to choosing the right one.

1.So 「です 」is implied femenine? What about when asking questions with か?

2. So you can say「わたしはおとうと〪」 after all?

3. Does "ga" have anything to do with conjucation?

[Jo Sama]

Maybe you can use 次男 'じなん' which is 'second oldest son' to describe yourself?

Jo

[Gibb]

Originally Posted by sfried

3. Does "ga" have anything to do with conjucation?

"ga" is used for emphasis.

edit: read this part of the wiki about ga:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_particles#ga

It doesn't mention emphasis, but that's what my teacher taught me. You can say stuff like "anata ga suki" to mean "I like you!" or "watashi ga daikirai" to mean "I hate myself!" or whatever.

[Soluzar]

Originally Posted by sfried

1.So 「です 」is implied feminine? What about when asking questions with か?

That's not really correct. It is implicitly polite, and at the familiar or informal level is characteristic of feminine or cute speech patterns

3. Does "ga" have anything to do with conjugation?

No. The conjugation of verbs is a concept common to most languages, and should be familiar (if not by name) to many who have studied a language. It is the process by which a verb stem is transformed into the particular derived form. For example, verbs in many languages have a past, present and future form, and in some languages they also have masculine and feminine forms.

Here are some examples of the verb "to go" conjugated in English according to tense. These examples are in no way a complete treatment of English verb conjugation, but should give you some idea what sort of concept is under discussion.

Present Simple:"I go"

Present Continuous: "I am going"

Past Continuous: "I was going."

Future: "I will go."

These are just a few examples that should help you understand the complicated mess of verb conjugation. I am not certain enough of my own understanding of Japanese verb conjugation to present it, complete with any misunderstandings that it may include, but hopefully you now understand.

To conjugate a verb according to tense is to alter it so that it may refer to events in the relative past or future, as distinct from the usually standard present tense. There are other conjugations that are sometimes necessary, but to grasp those two is the most important, in my view.

[fujyoshi]

desu = suiseiseki

I never hear too many guys use desu come to think of it

[sfried]

Originally Posted by Soluzar

That's not really correct. It is implicitly polite, and at the familiar or informal level is characteristic of feminine or cute speech patterns

But what about questions? How do you use "ka" sentences without です?

[Samurai Drifter]

Originally Posted by Gibb

"ga" is used for emphasis.

edit: read this part of the wiki about ga:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_particles#ga

It doesn't mention emphasis, but that's what my teacher taught me. You can say stuff like "anata ga suki" to mean "I like you!" or "watashi ga daikirai" to mean "I hate myself!" or whatever.

Actually, I don't see how the "emphasis" meaning is compatible with that given in the article. And for my part, I've never heard "wa" used as the connecter before "arimasu" or "aru." Only "ga."

Originally Posted by rebekah1-anime

I never hear too many guys use desu come to think of it

I hear it on a fairly regular basis. It all depends on how polite and/or formal you want to be.

[Mercuric Oxide]

Originally Posted by sfried

But what about questions? How do you use "ka" sentences without です?

you either just use ka, or a raising intonation


are you free tonight? = konban, hima? (raising intonation)

what time is it? = ima, nan ji? (raising intonation)

did you see that? = mita no ka (casual form of mitan desuka)

shall we go? = ikou ka

[sfried]

Originally Posted by Mercuric Oxide

you either just use ka, or a raising intonation


are you free tonight? = konban, hima? (raising intonation)

what time is it? = ima, nan ji? (raising intonation)

did you see that? = mita no ka (casual form of mitan desuka)

shall we go? = ikou ka

Thanks for that info.

Just one small question...

Does a ☆ often imply a の in a title?