Who came up with "yandere"?

[Dan]

Aside from the paper thin difference to tsundere, I have a question about its meaning and creation.

First of all, did you explain the term correctly in your recent article? Is it supposed to be "characters who are initially gentle, kind, and affectionate, who turn possessive, spiteful, and jealous, and even physically violent"? If so, why the blatantly incorrectly reversed "yandere" and not "dereyan". Or did you mistake and it is actually a reverse of those characteristics? Admittedly "dereyan" doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely, but I'm curious if this is an oversight or, going to my next question, a foreign made misguided attempt that disregards the words' meanings?

[Muu]

it's also a play of words. "yanderu" (病んでる) is a term that's commonly used to describe someone that's mentally depressed, psychopathic, etc etc. Fits in perfectly with the whole yandere terminology, doesn't it?

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Muu

it's also a play of words. "yanderu" (病んでる) is a term that's commonly used to describe someone that's mentally depressed, psychopathic, etc etc. Fits in perfectly with the whole yandere terminology, doesn't it?

To a point. But the transition is what made tsundere what it is, and it seems the transition is important here to, or am I wrong?

It just feels like a lazy or poor attempt at a new fad

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... sounds like some lonely people from 2chan. i think.

[Blue_Bull]

Being a "close relative" to tsundere, the term yandere stuck since it has a better sound to it.

The concept was already there (cute, kind girl going psycho), but "yandere" does seem to be the result of a lazy/poor effort to name it. It does sound like an Otaku word-of-mouth thing.

BTW, there is a Yandere Encyclopedia coming out in Japan, as well a doujin game featuring nothing but Yanderes. And the School Days anime seems to be heading towards the yandere ending.

[Muu]

OK, let's dig a little deeper then.

Take the history of Yandere at:

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/a-park/20070718/p1

* ~2005/08: on a Tsuyo-kiss thread, someone referred to one of the characters as a "Yanderella"

* ~2005/11: after the Kaede Shuffle episode, someone came up with yandere

268 名前：風の谷の名無しさん＠実況は実況板で[sage] 投稿日：2005/11/25（金） 03:05:12 ID：StcCvY1e
ヤンデレ　…行動は病んでるけど内心デレデレ

and on and on. So if you want to take the original, original definition by an anonymous 2ch post (which is still an obvious play on words to tsundere), it's someone whose actions are psychotic but have deep affections for (insert male character here).

[Dan]

Thats interesting, thanks for the info. So then this anonymous possible creation implies NOT as John posted. So "yandere" is NOT about transition like tsundere is, it merely borrows the structure as a pun/homage/etc. I wonder what, if any, definition is given in the yandere taizen, though.

edit, not that it matters, but are you someone's secret extra account?

edit 2: ok, yea. checking the definition they have there on the link you posted it is a very inward/outward thing rather than a transition.

SO, origin and meaning: COMPLETE.

Next, how did John get it wrong and is this a common misperception among foreigners? GO!

[crilix]

Erm, Muu has it down right (in the last paragraph). Yandere isn't just cute girls going crazy, it's "cute girls going crazy out of love for the male protagonist". Examples are Fuyou Kaede from SHUFFLE! (going crazy because the protagonist's love interests shifted towards another girl) and Katsura Kotonoha from School Days (going crazy because the protagonist's love interests shifted towards many other girls xD). The bolded part is important because there's another term, yangire, (albeit newer and still not as popular) going around for girls that "snap" (going loco) all of a sudden out of whatever reason possible.

So in the end tsundere and yandere only suffer from structural similarities but the meaning of yandere wasn't directly intertwined from tsundere, per se.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by crilix

Erm, Muu has it down right (in the last paragraph). Yandere isn't just cute girls going crazy, it's "cute girls going crazy out of love for the male protagonist". Examples are Fuyou Kaede from SHUFFLE! (going crazy because the protagonist's love interests shifted towards another girl) and Katsura Kotonoha from School Days (going crazy because the protagonist's love interests shifted towards many other girls xD). The bolded part is important because there's another term, yangire, (albeit newer and still not as popular) going around for girls that "snap" (going loco) all of a sudden out of whatever reason possible.

So in the end tsundere and yandere only suffer from structural similarities but the meaning of yandere wasn't directly intertwined from tsundere, per se.

uhhhh....... thanks. I got it when I read those links.

[crilix]

And no, it isn't an inward/outward thing, it's a transition. Yandere's transformation basis is often, if not always, jealousy turned to perverted obsession, and that comes with time.

Edit: Also, John didn't get it wrong, he just 'ommited' the male protagonist affection part.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by crilix

And no, it isn't an inward/outward thing, it's a transition. Yandere's transformation basis is often, if not always, jealousy, and that comes with time.

Well, from what I was able to glean from those links, that isn't entirely true. Granted, the character may not have reason to be violent early in a series, but unlike how a tsundere is specifically standoffish and becomes lovey, a yandere never significantly changes their personality. They always have their violent reaction within them, but are lovey toward the character they attempt to secure for themselves.

Perhaps inward/outward is not the best way to frame this, but they are certainly not transitional, aside from the natural flow of plot.

[crilix]

Originally Posted by Dan

Well, from what I was able to glean from those links, that isn't entirely true. Granted, the character may not have reason to be violent early in a series, but unlike how a tsundere is specifically standoffish and becomes lovey, a yandere never significantly changes their personality. They always have their violent reaction within them, but are lovey toward the character they attempt to secure for themselves.

Perhaps inward/outward is not the best way to frame this, but they are certainly not transitional, aside from the natural flow of plot.

Jealousy turned to perverted obsession. I can't explain this better other than explaining its primary examples:

Katsura Kotonoha - She was the protagonist's primary desire, she liked him as well. Makoto betrayed her by sleeping with many other girls, constantly leaving her without a clear answer whether they're still a couple (!transition!). Combine that with classroom ijime... the girl's bound to end up in the looney bin.

Fuyou Kaede - The protagonist's childhood friend. She blamed him for the death of her parents, suppressed that and became his "wifey" over time until they hit highschool, other girls start to flirt with the guy, eventually when the pressure builds up (!transition!) she grabs the famous frying pan and goes all loco.

Of course we can't determine the ammount of evil these girls had inside them, but the fact remains their feelings needed to be severely stirred/tempered with/twisted, and that takes time.

Also, you really shouldn't compare yandere to tsundere all that much because many people are still under the impression that tsundere is an inward/outward thing.

[Dan]

I think we're splitting hairs in terms of "transition".

tsundere is a transition in the character
yandere is a transition in the plot

thats what I have read

edit: what Muu posted grabs the term very well
行動は病んでるけど内心デレデレ

Wheras a tsundere cannot be both tsun and dere at the same time, a yandere is both at the same time

[crilix]

Originally Posted by Dan

tsundere is a transition in the character
yandere is a transition in the plot

Right (well, in case of yandere, character personality influenced by events of the plot), what I wanted to emphasize was that both transitions occur over time.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by crilix

Right (well, in case of yandere, character personality influenced by events of the plot), what I wanted to emphasize was that both transitions occur over time.

Fine, if you like. But more importantly, 行動は病んでるけど内心デレデレ