What is the best 2D fighter?

[sazae]

Let's try and make this one a little bit better. A mix of balance (to a degree) and perfect gameplay against a fest of Yun/Chun/Ken.

[Jae Hoon]

They are both about equally balanced really.

While ST has a better overall character balance just slightly, Sim and Sagat pretty much wipe out most of the cast. (mind you Akuma isnt even in the discussion)

It really depends on your style, ST is more in your face and about picking your spots.

3S is more of a wait and see game due to the threat of parry, it pretty much completely takes out the fireball which is the extension of a poke. Even characters like Yun use controlled rushdown.

[seba_boi]

Turd Strike... Er, I meant Third Strike...

[Sendo Takeshi]

ST by a mile. Yeah, you gotta sit there and deal with the threats of Sim and O.Sagat most of the time, but the character balance, as said by Jae, is a bit better. I mean, just look at DXP, he plays freakin' Dee Jay and WINS with him.

That, and 3S is just too random for my tastes. I like strategy and knowing that what works is usually gonna work a good amount in a match, whereas in 3S, you're pretty much guessing what's gonna happen next. You go for one thing, next thing you know, wakeup parry and GGPO.

[Jae Hoon]

Lol God forbid you are Urien and you got Makoto down to 1/4 of a life bar while you still have most of yours.

Conventional wisdom right there would say Urien has a big advantage. But oh how wisdom flies out the door with 3S.

Next thing you know parry SA2, juggle juggle, SA2

Game over

Makoto just depeleted a whole life bar because of one parry, even though she was in danger of losing.

That in itself is why people love or hate 3S.

[Sendo Takeshi]

Originally Posted by Jae Hoon

Lol God forbid you are Urien and you got Makoto down to 1/4 of a life bar while you still have most of yours.

Conventional wisdom right there would say Urien has a big advantage. But oh how wisdom flies out the door with 3S.

Next thing you know parry SA2, juggle juggle, SA2

Game over

Makoto just depeleted a whole life bar because of one parry, even though she was in danger of losing.

That in itself is why people love or hate 3S.

Just about. Which is why I play casually and fail to take the game seriously. Stuff like that is just aggrivating to deal with.

Sort of like when I was playing against a button masher(this was on the PS2), and I went for low forward and he managed to parry my c.forward and then hits c.short c.short into SA3 and wins the match. Meaties are seriously thrown out the window in this game.

Which is one of the reasons why I see the new breed of players always flocking to 3S first. They've deemed it an easier game to learn than ST where KNOWING matchups is key compared to just guessing a parry and going for the win.

[Jae Hoon]

I will give you an even better example that actually happened.

I was playing a friend of mine in 3S I was Alex and he was Akuma. He had full life bar and I was almost dead. He threw me into the corner and jumped at me regular fireball, super fireball, landed and did spin kicks. Again convential wisdom should say that is enough for chip. But ohhh how parry scoughs in the face of wisdom yet again. I parry the whole damn thing, hit him with a strong flash chop SA3,(which instantly dizzies), dash foward fierce chop, fierce powerbomb.(instantly down to less then 25 percent) Jumping short on the wakeup, tick powerbomb I win.

So in the matter of about 5 seconds I went from dead to winner just because of parry.

[Sendo Takeshi]

HAH! You pulled a Daigo, man. I remember playing against my friend a year ago and he was using Dudley. I ended up in your same situation, except much tighter circumstances and he went for Corkscrew Blow to get the chip damage kill. His input was delayed by a split second because he wanted to put out there so when I wakeup I end up IN the super. So, on the wakeup, I immediately started parrying it and then low forward into SA3 with Ken. It was a wrap.

My friend is a pretty good player in 3S and knows what he's doing. So, usually, I have to do my best to bait the parry and make him push forward so I can hit low forward clean and hit confirm SA3.

Another situation was when I was playing Hold Dat(SRK member) in 3S. It was a Hugo mirror match and he went for s.strong and I parried and did a regular jab, he parried and I immediately threw out his 720 and won the match with 15% life. For some reason, he couldn't believe that I could cancel the 720 quickly off the jab he parried. After all, it was a tick 720 that threw out, he just managed to parry the jab which I was thankful for.

3S really does force you to mix your game up. Which is nothing wrong, but when you're on the advantage, things can happen and make the match NOT go in your favor due to parry. A predictable play-style is a dead one in 3S.

Sort of like how people say that XvSF is so broken, but yet don't realize, that this game teaches you how to play very carefully due to the fact that the first c.short to hit is usually the one that wins.

[cris]

Third Strike. Parry can be both good and bad for you and over all, I think the system of Third Strike is great. If the other guy is relying to much on party there are ways to work around it.

[Sendo Takeshi]

Originally Posted by cris

Third Strike. Parry can be both good and bad for you and over all, I think the system of Third Strike is great. If the other guy is relying to much on party there are ways to work around it.

Empty jumping and throwing is all you can really do against a parry-wh0re. But even then, you have option-select parrying(Jae can explain this a whole lot better than I can). It's usually a new player that relies heavily on parrying because they've seen Daigo or any other top player do it swiftly and think it's the end all be all in 3S.

Anyway, let's change the tune a bit: I finally started using Strider/WarMachine like, 10 years later. Damn, I'm sad. As good as I was in MvC1, I never competed on a national level. This saddens me. Sucked being 12 at the time. =/

[Jae Hoon]

Well the Daigo parry as it is now called is a bit overrated. The parry itself wasnt that impressive, what was impressive was Daigo baiting the parry. Parry isnt all that hard, it is all just timing. Hell earlier in that Evo KSK almost did the samething to Raoh but he was smart enough to throw an ex fireball before the SA 2 to mess up the parry timing.

Unforunatly yeah every Mook in the world thinks they are a parry master now. Baiting parry is pretty easy against newbs, just jab alittle out of jab range and watch them parry whiff.

Part of the reason Yun is so good is that the threat of parry isnt nearly as much for it. For example in alot of Yun matches you see Yun jump straight up. This is two par

1. It sets up for the dive kick for pressure tactics

2. At worse you jump up and press foward while you are jumping to parry any attack that may come at you.

At worst you end up at a neutral position at best you got dive kick/pressure tactics.

It is a win win situation either way.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

My vote goes to Turbo.

[sazae]

Well here is something for Jae and Sendo along the parry lines. I'll be the first to say that aside from Yun it's what I dislike most about 3S. But how do you view the earlier inception with the Alpha Counter? I look at it like an early form of the parry but you have to pay to use it. Knock something back with no chip damage and you can get a free shot but it'll cost you a full super bar to do so. I love it this way because then it gets much harder for people to sit there and parry anything you throw at them and kill most of the poke game.

[Jae Hoon]

Alpha counter was never that much of an influence, sure it could incorporate it but it wasnt crucial.

Crouch Cancel on the other hand was.

[Jinn]

if i had to choose.. third strike
all the way..