Will we see more official digital distribution?

[Avatar]

Hi John,

With the announcement of Death Note digital distribution "shortly after" original Japanese air dates by Viz, will we see more distributors doing the same? Do you see this as the future of anime distribution? Is it possible that within the next 2-5 years all licenses will be distributed this way?

It's seems ideal to me as a legitimate solution. I am aware of one popular fansub group who claims 20 hour release time from original air date, will Viz or future distributors be able to accomplish the same? There are some fansub groups that still continue to release episodes after a license is announced, so in my mind it just makes sense that Viz should beat them to the punch and follow up with C & D if required. Now the big question is what will the cost be, hopefully comparable to iTunes Store? (Personally I boycott iTunes due to DRM, but the pricing scheme seems reasonable.)

With new technologies like SlingCatcher, AppleTV, and MS Home Server I'm hoping this distribution model becomes mainstream.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

Digital Distrubution is the future IMO. I can't say that 2007 will see a major swing to it, but within 7 years I think 9 year olds will be laughing at their parents collection of plastics discs with movies on them and saying that you could fit 1000 of those onto one hard drive rather than taking up a whole wall.

[Gendo]

Anime companies are probably going to look and see how this does.

Fansub groups will no doubt totally ignore the fact that this is licensed and will continue to distribute the series (Though in fairness I can't wait to hear the new excuse as to why the fansubs are needed now that the show is licensed). Fan's would rather get a crappy translation from a group in 20 hours than a professional job in a couple months (Which, oddly enough is then considered the bad translation because it's different from the crappy 20 hour translation, in yet another attempt to try and justify theft of anime online by not buying legitimate product). My guess is that this online distribution will crash-and-burn just like other attempts by US companies to bend over backwards to appease fans, which is really sad. No other industry has been so attentive to the needs of their market.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

^ You know, that's very true, and I agree with what you said. It is unfortunate that this will probably end up being just another failed plan at giving fans legal outlets of getting a hold of anime.
*prepares for another fansub vs. legit release war*

However, I kinda doubt it will be the wave of the future, I'm sure it will pick up, and more series will be licensed and distributed this way, but I can't help but think that there's a large majority of people out there that don't like the idea of paying for a file, it just doesn't have the tangible element that going to the store and picking up a dvd has. Also high speed broadband connections are still out of some peoples price range, and I'm under the impression that a dvd quality download of 3-5 episodes (a standard anime dvd release) worth of anime is going to be a pretty huge file, even if they are seperate files for each episode, I imagine they'll be 500-600MB each if not more, which would take you so long to DL over a dial-up connection you could probably walk to Japan and watch it before it finished DL'ing.

[Crawlspace]

Originally Posted by Gendo

My guess is that this online distribution will crash-and-burn just like other attempts by US companies to bend over backwards to appease fans, which is really sad. No other industry has been so attentive to the needs of their market.

In regards to current digital distribution, what little there is of it, there is no bending over backwards going on. As the scheme is in its infancy and being spearheaded by ADV, I give it a little leeway, but it's a terrible trainwreck right now. The DRM is the worst aspect of it, limiting you in how you view the download and preventing copying to disc. The price is bad since you get more with a dvd for the same cost, and there's a very noticeable lack of a Japanese language track (due most likely to the Japanese licensor). People love paying to download things, and would do so if companies made it possible, even though fansubs will never completely go away. Free samples, after all, are better than ones you have to pay for. Even I'd bypass "renting" a download from an R1 in favor of downloading a free fansub when I'm sampling shows since if I like it I'm going to go buy the dvd. The whole digital download process right now, regardless, is too prohibitive for a lot of people. If it fails, it will be because the companies weren't able to get it right and fix the DRM and pricing, not because fans aren't willing.

[Leader Desslock]

Originally Posted by Gendo

Fansub groups will no doubt totally ignore the fact that this is licensed and will continue to distribute the series (Though in fairness I can't wait to hear the new excuse as to why the fansubs are needed now that the show is licensed).

You read my mind.

Originally Posted by Crawlspace

In regards to current digital distribution, what little there is of it, there is no bending over backwards going on.

To be fair, there's no bending over backwards on the part of consumers to stop bootlegging/fansubbing either. I'd call it a draw, and somewhere in the middle there's enough money changing hands to keep the industry alive.

Originally Posted by Crawlspace

The DRM is the worst aspect of it, limiting you in how you view the download and preventing copying to disc.

Strike One for me. If I buy it, I get to do what I want with it. Ain't no way I'm just going to buy data to be lost next time I lose a hard drive. I want to be able to play it on my Mac, the PC - whatever, wherever. If the product being sold doesn't allow that, they can keep it.

Originally Posted by Crawlspace

The price is bad since you get more with a dvd for the same cost

Strike Two. If I'm not getting a physical disc and the only production cost is bandwidth, the company can afford to drop the price along with their overhead. If they don't, I'll buy the DVD. My only real reason to switch to digital distribution would be to save money. If I can't save money, I won't switch. Period.

Originally Posted by Crawlspace

...and there's a very noticeable lack of a Japanese language track

Strike Three. Don't even come back to me until you have a product I want to buy.

I'm happy with DVD rentals. Really.

[SeannyB]

Strike One for me. If I buy it, I get to do what I want with it. Ain't no way I'm just going to buy data to be lost next time I lose a hard drive. I want to be able to play it on my Mac, the PC - whatever, wherever. If the product being sold doesn't allow that, they can keep it.

I'm fine with restrictive DRM schemes (to a degree), since the idea is to allow the consumer watch it once like an online pay-per-view. With DVDs, you pay a premium price ($20) to own a physical copy. That's the way to go when it comes to collecting media (I doubt the distribution of media on physical discs will ever totally disappear). But I'd happily pay a buck or two to watch a DRM'ed download of an anime episode that self destructs after the first viewing -- or however the DRM scheme would work as long as it's reasonable. If they can shorten the release gap between the Japanese premiere and the eng/international internet version then it would become a legitimate alternative to fansubs.

[Leader Desslock]

^ Oh, I don't mind a time-bombed downloaded rental. That's fine - makes perfect sense. I just won't pay DVD prices for a downloaded permanent distribution with DRM. Sorry if I was unclear or missed the point going around.

[Soluzar]

Originally Posted by Leader Desslock

To be fair, there's no bending over backwards on the part of consumers to stop bootlegging/fansubbing either. I'd call it a draw, and somewhere in the middle there's enough money changing hands to keep the industry alive.

That doesn't make Gendo's comment any less ludicrous. I agree with the point you're making, but you still can't make anything worthwhile of that comment. The industry don't do a bad job, but if they were listening to their customers, some companies could do a better job. Of course, it might not be financially viable to do a better job... but that's a different argument altogether

If I buy it, I get to do what I want with it. Ain't no way I'm just going to buy data to be lost next time I lose a hard drive. I want to be able to play it on my Mac, the PC - whatever, wherever. If the product being sold doesn't allow that, they can keep it.

I'm with the Golden Condor on this one. There's no way I'm paying for anything that I can't use in my own way. These DRM restrictions mean I'm unable to play the file on the device of my choice. Since I almost never sit at my PC to watch anime, that's just silly. I watch my DivX/XviD and the like on a standalone player with no DRM capability. On a TV that is conveniently located in the vicinity of a comfy chair. I wouldn't watch much if I had to use my PC.

Originally Posted by SeannyB

I'm fine with restrictive DRM schemes (to a degree), since the idea is to allow the consumer watch it once like an online pay-per-view.

For me the price is [robably always going to be too high for a 'watch once' product. I think I'd be comfortable paying as little as 25c per episode to watch something only once. Even rentals allow me to watch more than once.

None of the above is meant as a justification of fansubs, of course.

[HSaabedra]

For someone like myself that prefers subtitles over dubs, this is a step in the right direction. I've lamented many times the fact that I have to purchase DVD's with unnecessary marketing tacked on to them, when all I want is the show. I don't like paying 29.95 for interviews and miscellaneous crap, I want to pay that much for the show. Leave the extras as a final release to end the series. That's how I think it should be done.

[Soluzar]

Just as a note my figure of 25c per episode may seem like a lowball, and it is. That's how much I'd pay because in the first place I really don't want the product that much, and secondly because if it's being treated like TV, that's how much TV is worth to me . I mean figure out how much you pay for your cable package, and then work out how much you're actually paying per hour of entertainment you watch. I don't even have cable, so you do the math. Hell, I don't even have a rabbit-ears. I use my TV as a monitor for my games consoles and my media player.

[HSaabedra]

I don't pay anything for cable and I use my laptop as my TV, so costs are negated there. As far as the cost of data, if they are planning to release the TV series as a download, then it should cost no more than $2.50. I just hope they give downloaders HD versions.

[Avatar]

Originally Posted by Takumi Fujiwara

Also high speed broadband connections are still out of some peoples price range, and I'm under the impression that a dvd quality download of 3-5 episodes (a standard anime dvd release) worth of anime is going to be a pretty huge file, even if they are seperate files for each episode, I imagine they'll be 500-600MB each if not more, which would take you so long to DL over a dial-up connection you could probably walk to Japan and watch it before it finished DL'ing.

NTSC resolution is 648 x 486. Most digital fansub downloads are 24 min 640x480 175 Mb avi. I can download such a file in 18 min using bittorrent over cable broadband. If the distributer offered a direct download (not FTP/P2P/BT) at 3 Mb/s broadband connection with optimal performance could download such a file in one min. I'm currently on 10 Mb/s using Shaw Canada which offers 25 Mb/s in some cities. Comcast currently offers 8 Mb/s and will be offering 16 Mb/s before the years end. Verizon DSL offers 16 Mb/s today. Feel free to work out the math yourself. If someone did not have access to internet or is using a dial up connection, then I doubt digital distribution is a solution for them. If they are using dial up to download fansubs, then if the legitimate downloads are available for the same file size then it's a moot argument. Again the only difference is the fact that fansubs remain free, which is why C & D orders are a legal option for the distributer, and of course DRM which remains digital distribution's main limitation. Even Bill Gates says "buy a CD and rip it."

If Viz were to offer Death Note subtitled with Japanese audio (I don't understand why they wouldn't as some have claimed), NTSC or HD format, MPEG-4 200 Mb for universal playback, and without DRM, would that not be worth $1.99 or $11.99 for the series? Or because of the translation overhead not found in major distributors like NBC/Disney/etc even $3.99 or $23.99 respectively? Plus it's a digital distribution, therefore could be available for streaming through Adult Swim Fix and other similar services. Unfortunately, ANN's recent updated Viz announcement doesn't clarify if the DVDs will be hybrid or dub only.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

ITunes sells TV shows for $1.99 an episode. I know if I could get an anime episode for that price, I'd go that route. Thats not a bad price @ all IMO.

To the people mentioning hard drive crashes... the files are stored on a server as well. If your HDD crashes you should be able to just redownload the files since your account is in the system as having purchased it already. Thats a way better option than what happens if your DVD cracks or gets scratched.

[ArcaJ]

I'd like to see a download option for vintage titles. If a smaller company could gather expired licenses for 20-30 year old series, they could skip the costs of hiring voice actors or getting the license for the dub track. They would also save money by no having to press DVDs or print artwork and covers etc.


The company could do a Japanese language release and pass those savings on to the consumers with restored prints and new subtitle translatioons.

In the right hands, the digital distribution model could work out for everyone.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth