MMM Scientist grow pigless pork

[Bernard_Monsha]

Better than a McRib

Scientists Create Lab-Grown Pork; Bacon Industry Unmoved (http://www.sphere.com/2009/11/30/scientists-create-lab-grown-pork-bacon-industry-unmoved/)

(Nov. 30) -- Scientists in the Netherlands have created pig in a test tube. Debate has already started on whether it will save the world, or just throw vegetarians into a quandary.

In the meantime, the researchers may be in line for a celebratory feast: They could be the new front-runners for a million-dollar prize offered by a major animal rights group.

The research team, funded by a major sausage maker and the Dutch government, used cells from a live pig to grow pork muscle tissue in a Petri dish. After extracting cells called myoblasts from the muscle of a live pig, the scientists then incubated the myoblasts in a nutrient solution, which allowed the cells to multiply and create muscle.

The implications of this breakthrough in "in vitro meat," as it's sometimes called, are potentially enormous.

Physiology professor Mark Post of Eindhoven University, who led the research team, believes it could make it possible to end world hunger. "You could take the meat from one animal and create the volume of meat previously provided by a million animals," he told the media in the United Kingdom.

Making meat in a laboratory instead of a feed lot could also reduce climate change by eliminating billions of tons of methane and other greenhouse gases emitted each year by farm animals across the globe.

Of course, all these potential boons depend on whether consumers think the man-made meat is tasty enough to eat. And even the scientists had to admit to reporters that they don't know if their creation is flavorsome, because laboratory regulations forbid them from tasting anything they create.

It certainly doesn't sound very appetizing. It's hard to imagine ordering up eggs and "wasted muscle tissue," which is how Post described his creation.

Nonetheless, the professor believes that steps can be taken to give the lab-grown meat a more marketable, steak-like consistency.

"We need to find ways of improving it by training it and stretching it, but we will get there," Post told reporters. "This product will be good for the environment and will reduce animal suffering. If it feels and tastes like meat, people will buy it." He and his colleagues predict that within five years, sausages and other pig products made from laboratory meat could be on the market.

At this point, the U.S. pork industry doesn't sound too alarmed at the prospect of being rendered obsolete by a lab beaker.
Cindy Cunningham, an officer of the National Pork Council, called the Dutch research "very interesting." But she noted that beyond the need to take the technology to a commercial level capable of supplying enough product to replace traditionally grown meat, USDA and FDA labeling issues would have to be worked out.

"The question of consumer demand would then be the driving factor," Cunningham said.

On that end, greater marketing savvy would help. (First order of business: come up with a better label than "in vitro meat.")

But People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is also doing its part to create additional financial incentives for researchers. Last year, the group announced it would pay $1 million to anyone who came up with a way to produce large quantities of test-tube-spawned meat at competitive prices by 2012.

"Cells are capable of multiplying so many times in culture that, in theory, a single cell could be used to produce enough meat to feed the global population for a year," says New Harvest, a nonprofit research organization working to develop new meat substitutes.

The group's Web site predicts that the resulting cells will then be harvested, seasoned, cooked and consumed as a boneless, processed meat, such as sausage, hamburger or chicken nuggets.

Today, pig. Can foie gras be far behind?

[Shiroiyuki]

I don't know about you, but I don't want none of that Netherland Man-meat, thanks.

[DavenIII]

sounds wonderful, I wonder if it tastes even better then real pig, I can't wait to try it.

[Trefellin]

But that defeats the purpose of eating a dead animal. You can't taste any suffering when you eat laboratory meat.

[l0k1]

There's something strange about growing your own meat in a lab.

[KatayokuのTenshi]

Cindy Cunningham, an officer of the National Pork Council, called the Dutch research "very interesting." But she noted that beyond the need to take the technology to a commercial level capable of supplying enough product to replace traditionally grown meat, USDA and FDA labeling issues would have to be worked out.

Only for America. What does she think the rest of the world will do?

[tenshi_a]

It kinda sounds a bit gross to me.

I don't really like it when people shape flesh into other things to pretend an animal hasn't been hurt, or it's some make-believe foodstuff (e.g. little breadcrumb-covered dinosaurs which are made out of turkey), I find that a bit disrespectful. The poor animal's died for you and what do you do? Play with its flesh and mash it into something unrecogniseable. No, that is just a little disrespectful. I prefer my dead animals to resemble the creature they were... just, cooked. Creating misc animal flesh and folks like PETA celebrating as a way to get around it having been an animal... also seems like a similar kind of abomination but I can't put my finger on why.

It just seems wrong, like they are so opposed to the blunt reality of life and death and that "animals eat flesh to live, whether it be from plant or animal", that they have to create "not really meat" made out of "kinda animal ish thing but try not to think about it".

If it really is more economical and environmentally sound to produce "misc meat" than letting animals live on waste food then killing them, I guess that is a good thing, though. As long as it's, you know, proper meat.

I wonder what part of a pig it tastes like. I'm not too fond of bacon, but I like the occasional pork chop...

[KatayokuのTenshi]

Well I use "Human Insulin" every day that's made more or less in the same way, so I don't have any objections in principle.

As long as it tasted like meat and didn't kill you or something then I think I'd be fine with it. But the proof of the bacon is in the eating. Maybe I just wouldn't be able to stomach it if I knew it wasn't real animal.

Although it would probably improve the meat content of sausages.

[Caster13]

My sig definitely applies to this topic.

[Bradster]

I thought I heard something similar a while back, and they also were concerned about the texture issues that would result from a homogeneous growth as opposed to the mishmash of body tissue that's included naturally in your standard chop... I'll go for it if the taste is OK, since I've always been lazy and preferred patties over bone-in cuts.

It kinda sounds a bit gross to me.

I don't really like it when people shape flesh into other things to pretend an animal hasn't been hurt, or it's some make-believe foodstuff (e.g. little breadcrumb-covered dinosaurs which are made out of turkey), I find that a bit disrespectful. The poor animal's died for you and what do you do? Play with its flesh and mash it into something unrecogniseable. No, that is just a little disrespectful. I prefer my dead animals to resemble the creature they were... just, cooked. Creating misc animal flesh and folks like PETA celebrating as a way to get around it having been an animal... also seems like a similar kind of abomination but I can't put my finger on why. ..

If you read paragraph 3 again, it says that the pig whose cells created the culture didn't even die. While it sounds like a "myoblast extraction" is a bit more involved than just getting a blood sample, it's a darn better deal than the slaughter, drain, dress, and whatever else makes up meat processing. Add to this the advantage that even if the pig had to die, once the process improves, there might be a pig out there that's the last one slaughtered for food, as the cell lines it enables could be sustained indefinitely.

The Day No Pigs Would Die (with apologies to Robert Peck)

[Leader Desslock]

I'm not opposed to it in principle, but it seems a bit silly to waste time growing faux-pork in a test tube when you can just eat pigs. Pigs aren't in danger of becoming extinct, and they sure is tasty.

[Aragami]

I once had this hybrid apple/chicken sausage thing, and it didn't taste like apple or sausage, or chicken. It tasted horrible.

I'm all for originality, like engineering some never been seen before food source. However, the bottom line should be whether it tastes good, rather than whether it tastes remotely like pork. THe idea though is great. Maybe protein powder is better, but many people don't believe you can rely on it for sustenance.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I'm not opposed to it in principle, but it seems a bit silly to waste time growing faux-pork in a test tube when you can just eat pigs. Pigs aren't in danger of becoming extinct, and they sure is tasty.

I am thinking they could use this as an ethical out for people in New Guinea who want "Long Pork".

I can't see this replacing actual pork ever, how are you going to get the delicious fat marbling on test tube pork belly? This is like hydroponic vegetables, they do not taste the like vegetables, herbs, and fruits grown in soil.

[tenshi_a]

If you read paragraph 3 again, it says that the pig whose cells created the culture didn't even die. While it sounds like a "myoblast extraction" is a bit more involved than just getting a blood sample, it's a darn better deal than the slaughter, drain, dress, and whatever else makes up meat processing. Add to this the advantage that even if the pig had to die, once the process improves, there might be a pig out there that's the last one slaughtered for food, as the cell lines it enables could be sustained indefinitely.
I don't know. It's still a pile of dead flesh. It's still something that has lived and has died. But it's a pile of meat that doesn't do much like plants don't do much. So it's dead flesh like potato chips are dead flesh.

I feel just as sorry for potatoes as I do for pigs.

Which I guess is not that much.

It's just that, well, this is how it's supposed to work, I think. When people die they should be considered food for plants and animals too, is my thought. We're not so special that we should consider it our right not to be eaten. Things live to die to get eaten, that's how the living things on this planet got to where they are today. People could at least try and be useful and be made into soap or leather. It's just selfish to demand to be turned into an urnful of ashes.

I know that's kind of freaky and everyone thinks I'm insane but I really like plants. Most of them don't do anything to harm anyone, they give us lots of oxygen, they can't run away or protect themselves, yet it's way more acceptable to kill them than animals. I think I just don't like most animals. I really can't see why other people have such affinity for them when plants just seem so much more likeable. But, no-one has any sympathy.

Generated meat is just... kind of like a plant except that all it does is take. It's not like test-tube pork gives out oxygen. I can't decide if this is the best case scenario or the worst.

And it's not like farms just happen to own lots of pigs that would otherwise be roaming free; if farmers don't need to rear pigs, there won't be so many pigs. They might not have to die but they won't even be born either.

I don't know if not being conceived is better than having a short life. [shrug]

I dunno.

It's just all a bit of a weird concept for me, to think that this is somehow more civilised. Like saying "we're too good for the food chain, we moved our way all the way to the top, so the next thing to do is live on something that doesn't even register on it".

==

I have been working alongside a vegan over the last few months. Inflicting such an awkward lifestyle on herself, and I'm not sure it really does any good in the bigger picture. I guess I've just been thinking about it a lot and felt the need to vent. I think I'm done now.

[Holy Knight]

So now instead of using the pig as growth container, they're using a test tube? How is it supposed to be a superior method when the pig has already been optimized for best results? Might as well just make an axolotl tank out of a pig and harvest muscles as they grow again.

But if it cuts costs, makes production much more efficient, and manages to keep the taste, I guess all I can say is go for it? :unsure:

[willag]

I'd be willing to try it. And if it's good, I'll eat it.

Working in the tissue engineering field myself (and working with specific pig tissue), it's cool reading this. Totally different scope than what I do, but no less interesting. I love seeing the broad capabilities of this field.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I have been working alongside a vegan over the last few months.

I am sure you're eyes are watering. Vegans suffer from horrible, horrible flatulence that is compounded by their ingesting sulphur rich vegetables like onions and broccoli. We had 2 vegans who worked here and no one would go into their offices without vapo rub.

[tenshi_a]

I am sure you're eyes are watering. Vegans suffer from horrible, horrible flatulence that is compounded by their ingesting sulphur rich vegetables like onions and broccoli. We had 2 vegans who worked here and no one would go into their offices without vapo rub.

Naw, she's fine in that regard. She appears to live mostly on black coffee and bourbon biscuits... somehow. I probably eat more actual vegetables than her.

A perfectly nice, decent person, sometimes bakes us cupcakes (made out of... MYSTERY?), really loves cute fluffy animals... but... but... I really don't get it, so it's been building up. Every "DAWWWWW" :wub: and "squee" :wub: over small fluff balls cements my lack of understanding a little more. I can tolerate, I can accept, I can respect, but, there's an underlying bewilderment.

Every time we get some snacks, she's there reading the labels. Free donuts? No label, better not.

It's like a voluntary extreme allergy. Why put yourself through that? And then there are so many ingredients which were just invented to pretend to be some otherwise seemingly innocuous ingredient...

Sometimes... like there was one time when I left a glass of water on my desk, it wasn't clean (it had some fruit juice in it before), and I was off for a few days. When I came back, it was full of living things! I wanted to wash out the glass but she was "no! it's cute! and fluffy!". Indeed, the mould in the glass was a little fuzzy. I told her off for being "too vegan", took the glass to the toilets and poured the lifeform away, did some washing up and teased her about it for the rest of the day... like when she said someone else was cute, I said "yes you're cute, just like a glass of mould". She may have been kidding but.. you know, I really am not sure!

[Old Ape Face]

Artificial Bacon? I thought that was old news.

[Bradster]

It's just all a bit of a weird concept for me, to think that this is somehow more civilised. Like saying "we're too good for the food chain, we moved our way all the way to the top, so the next thing to do is live on something that doesn't even register on it".

It's less about being too good for the food chain than it is about Malthus (broadly speaking), and how much longer we can sustain the high ratios of food in/food out that it takes to support livestock. All the edible foodstuffs (vegetable crops, millions of gallons of water) that would otherwise be fattening them up for us could go back to fattening us up for our eventual carnivorous reptilian overlords that promise technological advances.

And for those who are only interested in the financial aspects, think of how much a Limited Edition Individually Numbered Farm Pig would go for, when there are only a few thousand of them left!

[Arnold]

It's just that, well, this is how it's supposed to work, I think. When people die they should be considered food for plants and animals too, is my thought. We're not so special that we should consider it our right not to be eaten. Things live to die to get eaten, that's how the living things on this planet got to where they are today. People could at least try and be useful and be made into soap or leather. It's just selfish to demand to be turned into an urnful of ashes.


Well, if a hungry bear or lion ever comes my way, I'll be sure to point him in your direction. :P

About the food chain- considering how much we've messed with it in the last couple of hundred years and taken total ownership of it, I'm not sure that taking us out of the loop this way is such a bad idea.

[CrossboneGundam]

Pigs will go extinct if we don't raise them to eat.

Despite the multiple reports and testings that say I have severe Dyslexia and ADHD . It is so annoying for me , because i can't get any help or pity at all just because i work my butt off to get the grades that i get , they were not the best .
________________________________________ ________________
breaking bad series (http://www.dvdcollectionsale.com/Breaking-Bad-Seasons-1-2-DVD-Boxset-DVD-1778.html)

I smell a viral advert.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Pigs will go extinct if we don't raise them to eat.



I wonder if they chose pigs because they will do fine if freed into the wild.

[Fobb]

There's something strange about growing your own meat in a lab.

Extenze naturally INCREASE male...size.

[Jatz]

sounds wonderful, I wonder if it tastes even better then real pig, I can't wait to try it.

I thought I heard something similar a while back, and they also were concerned about the texture issues that would result from a homogeneous growth as opposed to the mishmash of body tissue that's included naturally in your standard chop... I'll go for it if the taste is OK, since I've always been lazy and preferred patties over bone-in cuts.

I think that was cow they were growing and it didn't taste good.

[Caster13]

There's something strange about growing your own meat in a lab.

Extenze naturally INCREASE male...size.

I cannot believe that it took this long. I'm shocked, seriously.