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Jack_Bauer
December 1st, 2009, 11:39 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/01/obama.afghanistan/index.html
Obama wants Afghan war over in 3 years, officials say
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Pentagon official calls deployment timing "aggressive" but says it can be done
Obama wants most U.S. troops out of Afghanistan in 3 years, officials say
30,000 troops to be deployed within six months, White House officials say
President to announce strategy Tuesday in West Point speech
Join the best political team on television for "Decision: Afghanistan" live on CNN.com, CNN TV and your iPhone on Tuesday night starting at 7 ET. President Obama's address begins at 8 ET.

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama is sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan but plans to conclude the war and withdraw most U.S. service members within three years, senior administration officials told CNN Tuesday.

The president is ordering military officials to get the reinforcements to Afghanistan within six months, White House officials said.

Obama will travel to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York, later Tuesday to officially announce his plans. It would be his second escalation of U.S. forces in the war-torn Islamic country since he came to power in January.

The president also is seeking further troop commitments from NATO allies as part of a counterinsurgency strategy aimed at wiping out al Qaeda elements and stabilizing the country while training Afghan forces.

The expected new troop deployment would increase the total U.S. commitment to roughly 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, bolstered by about 45,000 NATO forces.

Obama, whom Republicans had accused of "dithering" over the decision, came to the conclusion that the deployment needs to be accelerated to knock back the Taliban, the officials said.

The push for a speedy deployment surprised some observers, because White House officials who defended Obama's slow pace of coming to a decision had said the Pentagon wouldn't be able to get new troops to Afghanistan that quickly.

Asked to explain that seeming contradiction, a White House official told CNN: "The president is saying this has to happen, so the military will make it happen."

A Pentagon official acknowledged Obama's six-month timeline for sending the new troops is "very aggressive" and will be challenging for the military to fulfill. The official expressed confidence, however, that the military would successfully carry out the order.

The official noted that, under the new strategy, Obama is "trying to do it faster" than the 12-month timeline initially requested by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan.

McChrystal wrote in a report in August that a "failure to gain the initiative and reverse insurgent momentum in the near-term (next 12 months) -- while Afghan security capacity matures -- risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible."

In addition to reviewing new timelines, the president's speech, according to White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, will also explain why the United States is involved in Afghanistan, the new American mission in the war-torn country and the process that led to Obama's decision.

The president will emphasize the limit on U.S. resources in manpower and budget, Gibbs added.

Gibbs said Obama has been briefing top aides, military officials and foreign leaders about this decision. The president previously ordered more than 20,000 additional troops to Afghanistan.

The decision to send another 30,000 troops carries significant political risk for Obama, who will announce it nine days before he travels to Oslo, Norway, to accept the Nobel Peace Prize.

His liberal base, which helped him win last year's presidential election, opposes another troop deployment to Afghanistan.

"I think he's made up his mind that there needs to be a troop increase, and I have to say I'm very skeptical about that as a solution," said Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Illinois, a longtime Obama ally who now worries Afghanistan will become what she calls another quagmire.

In addition, the deployment -- expected to cost an extra $30 billion a year -- comes amid high unemployment as the economy emerges from a recession. That concerns Democrats and Republicans faced with competing domestic priorities such as health care reform and job creation.

House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wisconsin, recently proposed a special war surtax to finance the conflict.

Gibbs told reporters Monday that he had "not heard extensive discussion" at the White House about a possible surtax.

"I know the president will touch on costs" during Tuesday's address, he said, but "I don't expect to get overly detailed [about that issue] in the speech."

In Afghanistan, reaction to the possibility of more U.S. troops ranges from outright opposition to a willingness to see what happens.

"We welcome their arrival if they really expel the Taliban, terrorists, and al Qaeda from the borders of Afghanistan," said Mohammad Zia, 40, in Kabul, the capital. "But if they come and kill more civilians and destroy villages, then they shouldn't come."

Back home, Obama's allies said the president must convince the American public that sending more troops will help achieve the goals of the mission.

"The president needs to explain how more combat troops will speed up training of Afghan forces," Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, said Sunday on the CBS program "Face the Nation."

The deployment won't work if the mission is for the United States to take on the Taliban on its own, Levin said.

As for why the president chose West Point as the venue, the White House officials noted the Army has borne an extremely heavy burden in the Afghan war, so the school is an important symbol.

The officials said West Point not only is where cadets train, but also where they study counterinsurgency principles at the heart of the new U.S. strategy in Afghanistan.

The decision to send 30,000 additional soldiers to Afghanistan could delay the Army's promise of ensuring all troops get at least two years home between deployments, a senior Army official told CNN.

The Army's goal was to implement such a policy by 2011, the official noted.

U.S.-led troops first invaded Afghanistan in response to the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and the Pentagon by the al Qaeda terrorist network. The invasion overthrew the ruling Taliban, which had allowed al Qaeda to operate from its territory -- but most of the top al Qaeda and Taliban leadership escaped the onslaught.

Taliban fighters have since regrouped in the mountainous region along Afghanistan's border with Pakistan, battling U.S. and Afghan government forces on one side and Pakistani troops on the other. Al Qaeda's top leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, remain at large and are suspected to be hiding in the same region.

The conflict has claimed the lives of more than 900 Americans and nearly 600 allied troops.



I wonder if this will affect IRR call ups (USMC) and stop losses (USA). Some of my friends who left the military last year have expressed their interest in coming back and go to Afghanistan. Im currently non deployable and by the time Im done with this gig, my contract is up and I've done eight years of service in total, which means I dont have to go back in or wont get called up. I wonder if I should participate in this?

Old Ape Face
December 1st, 2009, 05:38 PM
INB4 I Blame Bush!!.

Leader Desslock
December 1st, 2009, 05:41 PM
Obama's fulfilling his promise to bring home troops from Afghanistan.

The plan simply requires those troops to take a rather winding path through Afghanistan, shooting targets of opportunity and stopping to foster a stable political environment along the way. That's not deployment, that's just... taking the scenic route. Afghanistan's lovely this time of decade.

loplop
December 1st, 2009, 05:46 PM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. ----- George Santayana (1863-1952)

Can anyone say LBJ?

Shiroiyuki
December 1st, 2009, 06:46 PM
Does anyone even know what the hell we're fighting for anymore?

Bernard_Monsha
December 1st, 2009, 06:57 PM
Does anyone even know what the hell we're fighting for anymore?

Yes, if I could I would still be in the service.

Trefellin
December 1st, 2009, 07:00 PM
Does anyone even know what the hell we're fighting for anymore?

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

9-11.

9-11 who?

You said you'd never forget! :crybaby:


Nah, to maintain America's status as the world superpower I think.

Justinian
December 1st, 2009, 07:09 PM
Nah, to maintain America's status as the world superpower I think.

And you are... CORRECT!

Shiroiyuki
December 1st, 2009, 07:19 PM
You do realize of course that...because of this really retarded war we've LOST more people than we did during 9-11? We continue to lose more every day?

So what was it for, really? We don't seem to be making any progress. At all.

Old Ape Face
December 1st, 2009, 07:38 PM
You do realize of course that...because of this really retarded war we've LOST more people than we did during 9-11? We continue to lose more every day?

So what was it for, really? We don't seem to be making any progress. At all.

So, how many people died in the Civil War? Look what happened 200 years later.

How many people died in the Revolutionary War? World War 1? World War 2?

Any war that was fought with preserving the United States' country in mind.

Deaths are always a result in war no matter the cause or the goal.

Just because 9-11 happened doesn't mean that war stops, in fact it's easy to say this war was caused by 9-11, and thus lives must be lost for it to finish.

TalaRain
December 1st, 2009, 08:06 PM
Sending more troops isn't going to accomplish anything. Sending troops over there in the first place hasn't accomplished anything. The people over there that we are supposedly helping don't really want us there and the guy who took credit for 9-11 still hasn’t been caught after almost 9 years!

I think Obama needs to do what he said he would do and bring our people home.

Old Ape Face
December 1st, 2009, 08:08 PM
We have demonstrated a change in Iraqi government.

But I assume we are treating Afghanistan like another Vietnam war.

Just sending in troops for a no name cause primarily to keep the president busy?

The Million Dollar Prons
December 1st, 2009, 08:23 PM
I thought B-rock was going to end the war :(

Victory
December 1st, 2009, 08:32 PM
I'm curious how they're going to get out of this mess.
I really have no idea what they should do.

Maybe come back in 50 years once the Afghans have their **** sorted out.

Neko
December 1st, 2009, 08:37 PM
As soon as they get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, I'm sure there's just going to be a new random war that pops up somewhere, just like there always has been.

Aragami
December 1st, 2009, 08:46 PM
We can't/couldn't just have them over there ready to sabotage us again and again, because we allow them the convenience.

Fobb
December 1st, 2009, 10:07 PM
Obama's fulfilling his promise to bring home troops from Afghanistan.Wasn't his promise to bring home troops from Iraq? He definitely fulfilled his promise.

Does anyone even know what the hell we're fighting for anymore?

I'll give you a hint. It starts with O, and ends in IL.

Three guesses.

Shiroiyuki
December 1st, 2009, 10:16 PM
^Yeah, but we have our own reserves. This is pure greed and stupidity.

Fobb
December 1st, 2009, 10:17 PM
^Yeah, but we have our own reserves. This is pure greed and stupidity.

There's your answer.

Why use ours when we can use theirs? And save ours for when we run out of theirs.

Of course its greed, everyone but me is immoral.

Soluzar
December 1st, 2009, 10:41 PM
But I assume we are treating Afghanistan like another Vietnam war.It might be like Vietnam in the sense that there's no real way to 'win', but American interests are at stake in Afghanistan. It is a region that gives rise to terrorism, it is wholly in the American influence to stabilise it if at all possible.

My primary objection to these actions in the mid east is that we keep losing people, without apparently gaining any advantage ourselves. British troops are/have been in Afghanistan and Iraq too, and we've lost quite a few. I dread to think how many the Americans must have lost considering you have that many more posted there.

Yeah, but we have our own reserves. This is pure greed and stupidity.
There are vast political barriers to exploiting any remaining American oil reserves. Either because of the locations and the public resistance to drilling there, or because traditionally those kind of deposits aren't viewed as viable fuel, like oil shale.

That doesn't go for every remaining drop o' crude in the whole US, of course. It's just that there are lots of potential sources that there isn't the will to tap. Personally I can imagine both of those problems will go away pretty quickly the next time gas goes up by a couple of bucks.

I'm not in favour of despoiling areas of great natural beauty, of course... but I do wonder if there's a way to eat your cake and have it with regards to the problematic oil fields. Necessity is the mother of invention and all o' that.

One thing that does make me sad is the way that vast seams of anthracite have been wasted due to careless mining or accidents. Once an anthracite seam catches fire, it might never stop burning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania). Fossil fuel takes millions of years to create, it is a precious resource. I don't blame anyone, of course... nobody would have wanted such situations. Just a shame it's gone forever. Anthracite is a much more clean fuel than coal and there are still some applications for it.

CrossboneGundam
December 2nd, 2009, 04:52 AM
Wasn't his promise to bring home troops from Iraq? He definitely fulfilled his promise.



I'll give you a hint. It starts with O, and ends in IL.

Three guesses.

There's no oil in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan was supposed to be about Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but someone decided to pull the majority of US forces out to start an even bigger war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and exhaust our forces while letting the Taliban regroup and retake large territories and Al Qaeda escape to Pakistan where we can't touch them.

l0k1
December 2nd, 2009, 05:02 AM
We need oil, they have oil, seems pretty simple.

The army is just an arm of the goverment and it's accomplishing a task.

Personally i'd firebomb the entire country (which is what they deserve for being on the wrong side) and then stroll in unopposed but that wouldn't play too well in the media, oh how I miss the days of Thatcherite totalitarianism.

Tom Servo
December 2nd, 2009, 08:34 AM
Yes, if I could I would still be in the service.
I remember you writing that you drove trucks for some company in Iraq once... but I didn't know you had actually been in the armed forces. What corps were you in if you don't mind me asking?

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 08:48 AM
\ What corps were you in if you don't mind me asking?

you just answered your own question. Theres only one Corps. and its the United States Marine Corps.

(pronounced KOR, not KORPS)

DavenIII
December 2nd, 2009, 11:26 AM
I'd rather the fighting be in their country as opposed to ours.

the real problem is we are not sending ENOUGH troops, they (The Generals in charge) asked for 40k I believe and we are sending them 30k, I mean, I don't know why Obama and his cabinet think they no more about the situation then the generals that are there. but I suppose I should be grateful he did anything at all.

The thing that I most despise is he's setting a date, which make it impossible to be successful, the troops being sent are being sent to accomplish a goal, and then leave, but they are also given a time limit, is our Gov. naive enough to believe that the enemy doesn't also know about this time limit?

whats to stop them from laying low or leaving the area only to reoccupy after our time limit is up?

Tom Servo
December 2nd, 2009, 12:01 PM
you just answered your own question. Theres only one Corps. and its the United States Marine Corps.
In the UK the army is divided into various corps, like the royal armoured corps, the royal corps of engineers, the air corps, etc, and those corps into regiments. I presumed (incorrectly) that the American army would be divided in the same way.

The question still stands, despite whatever differences in structure or terminology. What I'm asking is what bit of the army Bernard was in.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 12:33 PM
In the UK the army is divided into various corps, like the royal armoured corps, the royal corps of engineers, the air corps, etc, and those corps into regiments. I presumed (incorrectly) that the American army would be divided in the same way.

.

Yup, its the same way actually. We have the USMC, Army, Navy, Airforce. They are their own branch (with the exception of the Marines, they are a department of the Navy) .Each has its own reserve system (Army National Guard, etc) and we also have the Coast Guard, which is part of Homeland security now. Our Marine Corps was actually modeled after the British Royal Marines. Btw, Bernard was in the Marine Corps I believe.

Back on topic:

Im still contemplating if I should stay in and participate in this campaign. I've already been deployed four times and Im not so sure if I can do another one. But if I get called upon, then I guess I will go for it.

Bernard_Monsha
December 2nd, 2009, 12:55 PM
What I'm asking is what bit of the army Bernard was in.

Them's fighting words. I was not nor ever shall be in the army. I am now and ever shall be a Marine.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 01:09 PM
Them's fighting words. I was not nor ever shall be in the army. I am now and ever shall be a Marine.

Please excuse bernard, Its a Marine Corps. thing... We dont like being called Soldiers or anything other than a Marine, Leatherneck, or Jarhead (if that pertains). But the term "Army" is a general term thats used for a group of armed personnel, we're just stubborn like that.

DavenIII
December 2nd, 2009, 01:11 PM
Please excuse bernard, Its a Marine Corps. thing... We dont like being called Soldiers or anything other than a Marine, Leatherneck, or Jarhead (if that pertains). But the term "Army" is a general term thats used for a group of armed personnel, we're just stubborn like that.

Marine's are better then the normal "Army" folk, or at least more highly trained, not better people persay heh.

and air force thinks they are better then Navy and etc etc... it's like Sibling rivalries.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 01:15 PM
Marine's are better then the normal "Army" folk, or at least more highly trained, not better people persay heh.

and air force thinks they are better then Navy and etc etc... it's like Sibling rivalries.

It just depends on what you're looking at. I have to give the Army a lot of props because they do a lot of things that the Marines cant in terms of operations and vice versa on our side. Also, depends on what school sometimes a Marine has to go to an Army school to get educated since the Corps. don't have that program. In the end, you are right its just like a sibling rivalry deal. One team One fight is what I go by.

Trefellin
December 2nd, 2009, 01:36 PM
The Middle East is an area rapidly growing in power. They have the fastest growing population in the world, large reserves of oil and are becoming resentful over Western control of the region. There is also much poverty and that doesn't help at all. Powerful states in the Middle East threaten American hegemony so they are building a strong, Pro-American state in Iraq to keep the balance in their favour. They are also destroying lawless Afghanistan as a haven for those who are willing to attack America directly. That also has the affect of surrounding Iran on both sides with American client states.

Formerly, America was content to support Israel as the regional power but that might not be enough anymore.

It's some kind of logical madness.

Bernard_Monsha
December 2nd, 2009, 01:46 PM
The Middle East is an area rapidly growing in power.

Exactly the opposite, the only resource they have is oil when that plays out they will not have anything appealing to the international market except manpower that can be gotten from friendlier places like China and India.

Soluzar
December 2nd, 2009, 01:49 PM
The real problem is we are not sending ENOUGH troops, they (The Generals in charge) asked for 40k I believe and we are sending them 30k, I mean, I don't know why Obama and his cabinet think they no more about the situation then the generals that are there. but I suppose I should be grateful he did anything at all.
Maybe they know more about the payroll and equipment bill for 40,000 soldiers than the field commanders out in Afghanistan. It's possible the main reason they aren't getting what they asked for is because it would cost too much.

DavenIII
December 2nd, 2009, 01:54 PM
Maybe they know more about the payroll and equipment bill for 40,000 soldiers than the field commanders out in Afghanistan. It's possible the main reason they aren't getting what they asked for is because it would cost too much.

Instead we waste 4 Trillion dollars on a horrible health care plan?

look America is in so much debt at this point that I already accept the fact that they are going to waste the vast majority of the money they collect from us, the least they can do though is refrain from "skimping" on protecting the country from foreign threats.

My main worry is that, by not sending the amount of help needed as estimated by the generals whom are there, is that what we do send won't be enough, lives will be lost, and will end up having to send more then originally estimated anyhow at a later date.

Trefellin
December 2nd, 2009, 01:54 PM
Exactly the opposite, the only resource they have is oil when that plays out they will not have anything appealing to the international market except manpower that can be gotten from friendlier places like China and India.

It won't last forever but they still control well over half of the oil reserves in the world and the little folk are poor and kinda pissed off. America isn't going to lose it's dependence on oil any time soon either and the demand is growing rapidly with India and China. They control most or a precious resource that everyone needs and they have large amounts or poor, discontented young men. For now at least, they pose a threat.

Bernard_Monsha
December 2nd, 2009, 02:11 PM
It won't last forever but they still control well over half of the oil reserves in the world and the little folk are poor and kinda pissed off.


It may affect China and India but not the US, we import only about 10% of our oil from that area. Everything else comes from out own sources Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. We would simply have to tap some of our untapped reserves to pick up any slack.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 02:19 PM
^ And even though its slow, our country is making an effort into alternative energy. Eventually fossil fuel products such as oil will be a thing of the past and the middle east wont have anything to barter with. But for now, its such a huge issue.

30,000... is anyone wondering how that's gonna be divvy'ed up between the Army, Navy, Marines and Airforce?

DavenIII
December 2nd, 2009, 02:22 PM
30,000... is anyone wondering how that's gonna be divvy'ed up between the Army, Navy, Marines and Airforce?

not really, I'm more interested in knowing whose making that decisions as opposed to what the decision actual is.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 02:27 PM
^ Its pretty important to me because it affects me and my colleagues.

Personally, I think 15,000 should come from the Marine Corps (Combat Units). 7000-10000 from the Army (since they're the largest) and the remaining should be divided up to the Navy and the Airforce. Now of course thats just your regular boots on ground deployment. There are also support units that are standing by at SEA (Navy-Marine Expeditionary Units).

Bernard_Monsha
December 2nd, 2009, 02:43 PM
^ And even though its slow, our country is making an effort into alternative energy. Eventually fossil fuel products such as oil will be a thing of the past and the middle east wont have anything to barter with. But for now, its such a huge issue.

Energy is the least thing we are dependent on oil for. How would we live without plastics?

Soluzar
December 2nd, 2009, 03:03 PM
Energy is the least thing we are dependent on oil for. How would we live without plastics?
I've been wondering about that recently... although I have heard there's some progress in making plastics from some kind of plant material. It won't be quite the same, of course. It might be what we have to accept one day though.

waltsoph3
December 2nd, 2009, 03:47 PM
I really hate having to talk about this stuff....yet sometimes it is necessary.

You do realize of course that...because of this really retarded war we've LOST more people than we did during 9-11? We continue to lose more every day?

So what was it for, really? We don't seem to be making any progress. At all.

I watched Obama's speech and I'm not impressed. :( Sure it had some key reasons but when you see cadets falling asleep during the speech that sends a very sad statement. At the time we went there after 9/11 I understood why. I was against the iraq war. We should have been focused on this goal and this goal alone..now its 8 years later...look whats happened. Not all of it is our fault. The government over there hasn't done enough as well.

So in honesty..I understand why you say that question..this should have been over with long ago imho.

We have demonstrated a change in Iraqi government.

But I assume we are treating Afghanistan like another Vietnam war.

Just sending in troops for a no name cause primarily to keep the president busy?

I do compare this situation to Vietnam too. So much in similarity. :(

I thought B-rock was going to end the war :(
:( Welcome to politics. Hope you like the health care bill he promised too. Sure wasn't the same one he proposed on the campaign trail.( now its more of what Hilary proposed on the campaign trail..and we know what happened to her in the end. )

As soon as they get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, I'm sure there's just going to be a new random war that pops up somewhere, just like there always has been.
I'll give you a clue..starts with an "I". Heres another clue..you hear about them all the time.

@ shinsensaitoh
To you and anyone else on AN that serves I want to say thank you again. I do mean that.

@ the story

:(...I really hate war. Nothing positive comes from it. Its like the old saying of how opposites attract. I only find war to be the last option when diplomacy has truly failed.
Soo much has come from this fight..so many deceptions. This should have been fought with more intelligence..not with just soldiers.

All I can ask for is to wish our troops to come back home in one piece when its all said and done. I can't wait for that day and can can only hope that day comes soon.

Jack_Bauer
December 2nd, 2009, 03:52 PM
@ walt

Thanks, and we appreciate your support. Not many people do nowadays. I agree with you, I dont like fighting either. Even though my trade in the military involves fighting, I hate doing it but in a generation where there arent many people that are willing to do it, someone has to. Mostly, I joined out of gratitude. Coming to the US from a poverty stricken country made me appreciate what the US had to offer myself and my family.

@ bernard
we are also developing new and alternative ways to replace plastic (which is another fossil fuel product). I know some companies are trying to use PVC's nowadays and coming up with a chemical compound that will replace plastic. Though Im sure that we will still be depending on plastic on our lifetime.

I concur, I wont be able to live without plastic. Theres just too many things we use on the daily basis thats made of plastic.

Tidusauron12
December 2nd, 2009, 05:14 PM
So what was it for, really? We don't seem to be making any progress. At all.

What congressman wants to be responsible for pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan after years of pointless fighting (causing death and terror to both fronts)? They need to make it look like we've won some sort of victory before they pull out (like, you know, giving that region "self-competency").

Aragami
December 2nd, 2009, 05:22 PM
The middle east needs to be fixed so that it is intelligent enough to act for its self interest foremost. An intelligent thinking person acts in his self interest. While a thief steals for the purpose of his self-interest, the enemies over there actually act out of, what, pure spite? What does the middle east get from its actions? Nothing. It's totally malignant. For the moral standard of the world, it is good that the malefic elements there are being neutralized and are not allowed to fester. How many places are like that in the world? There is something much worse than selfishness brewing there.