Plot Hole? ...Possible Spoilers

[FunnyManRocco]

So... here is something I've been thinking for a little while. Its been bothering me. (I tend to re-watch One Piece in my spare time)

I recently started over and came across episode 61 again. In the 2nd half of the episode they start looking at maps to understand Reverse Mountain. And before I noticed this, I always thought that they entered INBETWEEN the Red Line, but no! They enter Grand Line via Reverse Mountain because the Calm Belt is in the way. Not the Red Line, the Calm Belt. (Meaning I always thought that there were walls seperating the Grand Line from North Blue, East Blue, etc...)

My thought pertains to the Marines as they have access to the Calm Belt via Sea Stone. Also, the Kuja Pirates, because they have two Yuda to pull the ship. (I mention them because the One Piece Wikia page says that they can cross the Calm Belt because of the two Yuda, as they can swim over it and scare away any Sea Kings, I think Amazon Lily is also an island in the middle of the Calm Belt, so this is important to them)

Mind you all, I understand that the map is not to any particular size. The Calm Belt could be miles wide, and inbetween both Belts (Grand Line) could me even more miles of ocean. But why can't the Marines just enter the Calm Belt get to Raftel, One Piece's location, and confiscate it, or whatever?

I get that its probably not that easy, being the "New World" but does it at least seem possible? I made a picture using a screenshot from episode 61... also wrote on it to possibly help you understand what I'm saying.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg304/LordPangDe/ReverseMountain-1.jpg

Anyone else think this? Or understand? Or could possibly help me understand? Its also stated that Gol D. Roger and crew are the only ones to have reached Raftel (episode 63 I believe; by Crocus)... Am I possibly putting TOO MUCH thought into this??

[f2akid]

Yeah they couldn't go through the Calm Belt because they weren't equipped to do so at the time. But what you're saying is basically why don't the marines go to the end of the Grand Line and check out what's there. First off we've got a vague idea of the size of the Grand Line as the crew recently passed the halfway stage and look at all they covered so far (and they still skipped minor islands), so for the marines to get to the end of the Grand Line would use up a lot of resources for a place that it's not even entirely clear what Gol D Roger put there anyway.

But in all fairness Oda hasn't revealed to us what's in Raftel to begin with so there's no plot hole there because he can easily come out and claim the marines invaded Raftel right after Gol D Roger's execution and found nothing. And plus it's possible that it's inhabited by many people but Roger's crew were the only outsiders to reach it. It's all part of the nearly flawless execution of story-telling by Oda; just because he hasn't revealed something to us doesn't mean it contradicts something else.

[Soluzar]

As far as I know the Red Line extends all around the world. That forms an effective barrier to going from one hemisphere to the other in a ship. I assume you can make a land crossing on the Red Line, but even so... unless the marines have a base near the end of the Grand Line, being able to cross the Calm Belt doesn't automatically make it easy to get to Raftel.

Even if they did reach it, the hints in the story so far indicate that the treasure is the information contained in the Rio Poneglyph. I'm thinking the only people who know how to read Poneglyphs already know what they say... with the notable exception of Robin. It's not something the marines can cover up so easily, Poneglyphs are indestructable after all.

On top of all that, I'm starting to get the impression that the "World Government" really only have any power in one hemisphere and that the second half of the Grand Line is pretty much terra incognito to them...

I could be wrong, I'm not up to date with the latest happenings.

[FunnyManRocco]

@ f2akid: What do you mean at the time though? I don't know how long ago Dr. Vegapunk's made it, but they can cross the Calm Belt whenever they want via Sea Stone on the bottom of their ships.

Mariejois is on the Red Line and its the only gateway to the "New World" (for the marines I guess) aside from Fishman Island. They also say Mariejois is a gateway to the Grand Line, marines don't use Reverse Mountain, or don't have too. So they've already been halfway there by the time Luffy entered Grand Line.

@ Soluzar: I know the Yonkou/Four Emperor's own the "New World" and I guess the World Government's never had control of it. So I guess what I'll have to do is accept that as the reason.

Still its all really weird... Roger was the only one to reach Raftel, and he left all his treasures a.k.a. "One Piece" there or whatever... was something on Raftel to begin with? Just because he became Pirate King... what makes you Pirate King again? I'm confusing myself...

I know now since we're in the "Whitebeard War Saga" that nothing really matters, Whitebeard vs. World Government, Shanks vs. Kaidou... everyone seems tied up. WAIT?! Four Emperors... who, what and where is the last Emperor?? This really throws off the balance, since they were in a deadlock and now there is an 'assumed super powerful' Emperor on the loose with no one to keep him/her in check.

[Soluzar]

See, I don't accept that there's a great treasure on Raftel. I think Roger just told everyone that to make them go there.

[FunnyManRocco]

Yeah, it did really screw with my mind in episode 400 where Luffy shouted at Usopp and said "I don't even wanna hear if there IS a treasure or not!" so either way Luffy just wants to be Pirate King, "the man with the most freedom on the sea" (stated in the same episode)

[ffl]

Truthfully, One Piece geography confuses me, so I don't pay much attention to it.

[f2akid]

@ f2akid: What do you mean at the time though? I don't know how long ago Dr. Vegapunk's made it, but they can cross the Calm Belt whenever they want via Sea Stone on the bottom of their ships.

I meant the crew. At the time they weren't equipped to enter the Grand Line through the Calm Belt which is why they took reverse mountain as they had a better chance of making it into the Grand Line through there at the time.

[FunnyManRocco]

Oh yeah, come to think of it they do have the Thousand Sunny. They have that Coup de Vent (or something) ship-power now incase they aren't in good waters.

[Phantom]

How about they tunnel through the mountain? Make a waterway and bingo! Yes it wouldn't be that easy but the world government would surely invest the resources if it meant having a safe line to the end of this inhospitable place.

[f2akid]

Oh yeah, come to think of it they do have the Thousand Sunny. They have that Coup de Vent (or something) ship-power now incase they aren't in good waters.

Yeah, plus most of the crew could single-handedly take out sea monsters now.

[FunnyManRocco]

How about they tunnel through the mountain? Make a waterway and bingo! Yes it wouldn't be that easy but the world government would surely invest the resources if it meant having a safe line to the end of this inhospitable place.

Well the World Government is involved on Tequila Wolf, that island in East Blue where Nico Robin landed. Enslaving people, and building a bridge that so far took 700 years to get where it is. So they definately have the resources to do something outlandish.

[Dark_Knight]

Still its all really weird... Roger was the only one to reach Raftel, and he left all his treasures a.k.a. "One Piece" there or whatever... was something on Raftel to begin with? Just because he became Pirate King... what makes you Pirate King again? I'm confusing myself...

I know now since we're in the "Whitebeard War Saga" that nothing really matters, Whitebeard vs. World Government, Shanks vs. Kaidou... everyone seems tied up. WAIT?! Four Emperors... who, what and where is the last Emperor?? This really throws off the balance, since they were in a deadlock and now there is an 'assumed super powerful' Emperor on the loose with no one to keep him/her in check.

1. From the look of it, strength plays a key role in being Pirate King. Whitebeard was said to be Gol's equal and they don't say that because the two men had equal stashes of gold squirrelled away. And even if it is "treasure", treasure is not only measured in Gold and Jewels. The Poneglyph idea is interesting, because potentially, the poneglyph could contain information that is far more valuable than any amount of gold could ever be.


2. There's no indication that the Yonkou are necessarily the most powerful men on the seas. Granted, it's implied that they are very powerful as it seems most of them have at least visited the New World (and are the closest men to obtaining One Piece), but it seems that not all of them are up to the level of men like Whitebeard and Shanks. The third one referenced (forget the name) was mentioned to have only fought on par with Gekko Moria. Which-- while certainly an accomplishment, would still put him FAR behind the level of men like Whitebeard, and it even puts him behind Luffy. So there's no evidence to suggest that the final Yonkou is some epic demigod. If anything, Whitebeard is likely the most powerful of the Yonkou with Shanks in close second.

[FunnyManRocco]

1. From the look of it, strength plays a key role in being Pirate King. Whitebeard was said to be Gol's equal and they don't say that because the two men had equal stashes of gold squirrelled away. And even if it is "treasure", treasure is not only measured in Gold and Jewels. The Poneglyph idea is interesting, because potentially, the poneglyph could contain information that is far more valuable than any amount of gold could ever be.


2. There's no indication that the Yonkou are necessarily the most powerful men on the seas. Granted, it's implied that they are very powerful as it seems most of them have at least visited the New World (and are the closest men to obtaining One Piece), but it seems that not all of them are up to the level of men like Whitebeard and Shanks. The third one referenced (forget the name) was mentioned to have only fought on par with Gekko Moria. Which-- while certainly an accomplishment, would still put him FAR behind the level of men like Whitebeard, and it even puts him behind Luffy. So there's no evidence to suggest that the final Yonkou is some epic demigod. If anything, Whitebeard is likely the most powerful of the Yonkou with Shanks in close second.

1. Yeah I kinda like the poneglyph idea, but if thats true about information being more valuable than gold, then all of the Jolly Roger pirates know it. I remember Silvers Rayleigh talking about them, I don't remember if he said they're all dead, but that he just doesn't know about them anymore. We know he made it to Raftel with Gol right? I'm guessing Shanks/Buggy left before that.

2. Its said that the Shichibukai help keep the balance though. Its possible that Kaidou's ability doesn't work well versus Gecko Moria which is why they were equals or whatever. Hopefully we will learn more.

He is fighting Shanks right now since he was going to stop Whitebeard so... we'll see. Wishful thinking here, but maybe Kaidou will defeat Shanks (nothing to serious, maybe a fluke) but we can move into a Kaidou vs. Luffy fight, and get more knowledge on the character.

[Dark_Knight]

He is fighting Shanks right now since he was going to stop Whitebeard so... we'll see. Wishful thinking here, but maybe Kaidou will defeat Shanks (nothing to serious, maybe a fluke) but we can move into a Kaidou vs. Luffy fight, and get more knowledge on the character.

Wait, where was it mentioned that Shanks was fighting Kaidou? Last time I remembered Shanks being in the series was when he and Whitebeard clashed and split open the sky.

[Bernard_Monsha]

But why can't the Marines just enter the Calm Belt get to Raftel, One Piece's location, and confiscate it, or whatever?


Because the New World is controlled by the Yonkou and it takes everything the marines have to fight one off. Why would they suddenly pick a fight with a random one and leave the part of the grand line they control to check on something that might or might not be there.

[taily]

But none of the yonkiu have even reached the end yet, they could just send a ship in.

[Bernard_Monsha]

But none of the yonkiu have even reached the end yet, they could just send a ship in.

I just thought about something, you can't navigate on the grand line without a log pose. As no one has an eternal pose to Raftel any point you enter would have to follow the same direction hop-scotching islands and fighting the New World pirates to get to Raftel.

[FunnyManRocco]

I just thought about something, you can't navigate on the grand line without a log pose. As no one has an eternal pose to Raftel any point you enter would have to follow the same direction hop-scotching islands and fighting the New World pirates to get to Raftel.

That thought never crossed my mind... good catch.

and @ Dark Knight, I think Chapter 533, Kaidou went to intercept Whitebeard before he reached Ace, but Shanks stepped in.

[Soluzar]

I just thought about something, you can't navigate on the grand line without a log pose. As no one has an eternal pose to Raftel any point you enter would have to follow the same direction hop-scotching islands and fighting the New World pirates to get to Raftel.
Damn good point. There really aren't any shortcuts you can take without an Eternal Pose. You're stuck going to where your Log Pose is directing you. Did they ever demonstrate how an Eternal Pose is made? If they did, I either forgot or just missed it. Then again, I'm still only somewhere in the mid 300 of the anime. I've not watched any OP for a little bit.

[superplough]

As soon as I read the OP I thought of the log pose thing. However this thread (read: Soluzar) has given me some interesting ideas, about the treasure and such. I never did think "One Piece" was really just literally one piece of treasure... I had no clue on what it would be though.

I'm not sure if the Ponyglyph will be the trasure itself... but they'll most likely need it and Robin's help with it to find/get the real treasure, whatever it is.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Damn good point. There really aren't any shortcuts you can take without an Eternal Pose. You're stuck going to where your Log Pose is directing you. Did they ever demonstrate how an Eternal Pose is made? If they did, I either forgot or just missed it. Then again, I'm still only somewhere in the mid 300 of the anime. I've not watched any OP for a little bit.

No they just mention there are two types a regular log pose which adjust from island to island and an eternal pose that points to one island

[Soluzar]

No they just mention there are two types a regular log pose which adjust from island to island and an eternal pose that points to one island
Huh. Well I hope it is a detail that eventually comes up, someone has to make them. Unless there is some kind of freaky Grand Line Compass tree, which honestly is just crazy enough to be true.