TP Wars

[Bernard_Monsha]

This is just one of those wow moments. How dare you people want to wipe your *** in comfort with your bourgeoisie toilet paper!

Environmentalists Seek to Wipe Out Plush Toilet Paper (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092304711_pf.html)

ELMWOOD PARK, N.J. -- There is a battle for America's behinds.

It is a fight over toilet paper: the kind that is blanket-fluffy and getting fluffier so fast that manufacturers are running out of synonyms for "soft" (Quilted Northern Ultra Plush is the first big brand to go three-ply and three-adjective).

It's a menace, environmental groups say -- and a dark-comedy example of American excess.

The reason, they say, is that plush U.S. toilet paper is usually made by chopping down and grinding up trees that were decades or even a century old. They want Americans, like Europeans, to wipe with tissue made from recycled paper goods.

It has been slow going. Big toilet-paper makers say that they've taken steps to become more Earth-friendly but that their customers still want the soft stuff, so they're still selling it.

This summer, two of the best-known combatants in this fight signed a surprising truce, with a big tissue maker promising to do better. But the larger battle goes on -- the ultimate test of how green Americans will be when nobody's watching.

"At what price softness?" said Tim Spring, chief executive of Marcal Manufacturing, a New Jersey paper maker that is trying to persuade customers to try 100 percent recycled paper. "Should I contribute to clear-cutting and deforestation because the big [marketing] machine has told me that softness is important?"

He added: "You're not giving up the world here."

Toilet paper is far from being the biggest threat to the world's forests: together with facial tissue, it accounts for 5 percent of the U.S. forest-products industry, according to industry figures. Paper and cardboard packaging makes up 26 percent of the industry, although more than half is made from recycled products. Newspapers account for 3 percent.

But environmentalists say 5 percent is still too much.

[CrossboneGundam]

It's these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4

[Soluzar]

Surely... you can make fancy toilet paper out of recycled material, too? I don't see why it requires a century-old sequoia just to make good TP. I also don't see how this quilted stuff is any better, but that's a different matter.

[fujyoshi]

whadafrik?! Now what will we wipe our butts wit, sand paper -_=

[Trefellin]

"Should I contribute to clear-cutting and deforestation because the big [marketing] machine has told me that softness is important?"

It's not the big bad marketing machine that is telling you that you need soft toilet paper. It's our butts that are telling us. Blame them.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Surely... you can make fancy toilet paper out of recycled material, too? I don't see why it requires a century-old sequoia just to make good TP. I also don't see how this quilted stuff is any better, but that's a different matter.

Recycled paper is rough because the fibers are random and not from the same source. It is like comparing a hamburger to a hamburger someone chewed, swallowed then vomited up. It also takes a lot more energy to make recycled paper than to cut down a tree and make new paper. The paper industry in the us also replants trees, in fact they do rotations to give the planted trees time to grow before harvesting.

[tenshi_a]

They don't already sell any recycled paper toilet rolls in America? Like... none at all?

Recycled paper toilet roll is 100 times better than that stuff they used to provide when I was at school. It was exactly like tracing paper and was completely useless.

Usually when I buy toilet paper, I just buy whatever's on special offer. Recently that's meant Charmin brand quilty stuff. It's good.

The stuff you get in mainland europe that's like a softer version of kitchen roll is good as well. I don't know if that's partly recycled stuff or not.

[fujyoshi]

Recycled paper is rough because the fibers are random and not from the same source. It is like comparing a hamburger to a hamburger someone chewed, swallowed then vomited up. It also takes a lot more energy to make recycled paper than to cut down a tree and make new paper. The paper industry in the us also replants trees, in fact they do rotations to give the planted trees time to grow before harvesting.

so we're basicly gonna be wiping wit sand paper in a few months or so then right?

[Neko]

kitchen roll

Aww, what a cute name for paper towels(?) British words are so fun :D

I wonder why they can't make soft toilet paper out of recycled materials. If not, so be it... How much time does a person normally spend wiping their *** anyway?

[Leader Desslock]

I solve this problem by wiping my butt with Spotted Owls. I get a lot of hate mail from the Audubon Society, but you really can't beat the softness. Those little guys are like SIX ply or something.

[Soluzar]

Recycled paper is rough because the fibers are random and not from the same source.
I see. Well, that at least explains it. I've honestly never found any TP o be too rough... that nasty shiny stuff they used in British schools which tenshi_a referred to makes anything seem decent by comparison.

Really useless. You know grease-proof paper, that stiff, shiny paper they wrap fast food or pastries in sometimes? I don't know if America call it by the same name, but you should get the idea. Well it was just like that, and it basically meant that I'd do anything I could to avoid patronizing the school facilities. :lol:

It also takes a lot more energy to make recycled paper than to cut down a tree and make new paper. The paper industry in the us also replants trees, in fact they do rotations to give the planted trees time to grow before harvesting.
If they really are allowing time forhundred-year old trees to grow before harvesting, those paper companies sure are playing the long game. :P

Aww, what a cute name for paper towels(?) British words are so fun :D
Paper towels, yes... and how is that cute...? :unsure:

American reactions to British words are so fun... and confusing. :lol:

[Trefellin]

If they really are allowing time forhundred-year old trees to grow before harvesting, those paper companies sure are playing the long game. :P


But there are utter ****loads of those trees. Come to Canada and you'll see. We have trees coming out the ying-yang. There is more than enough trees to harvest only a small portion before more grow back.

[Soluzar]

But there are utter ****loads of those trees. Come to Canada and you'll see. We have trees coming out the ying-yang. There is more than enough trees to harvest only a small portion before more grow back.
I'm sure that may be true, as long as the companies involved don't go overboard.

[Trefellin]

I'm sure that may be true, as long as the companies involved don't go overboard.

Yes, but just to make my point even more clear...

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x8/CumminThru/ontario.gif

Above that thick, black, horizontal line there is nothing. Nothing! Just granite, water and trees. I've been as far as Timmins, birthplace of Shania Twain. Endless kilometers of nothing but trees. Do you know what is in Peawanuck? Hicks and trees. You don't even want to know what is in Attawapiskat. I don't want to say this but frankly, we're losing in the war against trees.

[Bernard_Monsha]

If they really are allowing time forhundred-year old trees to grow before harvesting, those paper companies sure are playing the long game. :P

They plant fast growing pines like the loblolly and harvest them in 2 to 4 years. Oddly enough there are forest were there shouldn't be forest in the US. I live in a fairly metropolitan area with roughly half a million people yet it looks like Borneo in all places except downtown.

My original home was coastal prairie and marsh now it is rife with trees that should not be there. Oddly enough the greens scream when people try to return the area to coastal prairie or wetlands by cutting down all these trees and re-flood the area. Stupid greens.

[goddessofanime]

I used recyclable TP. It's from Marcal.

I also get it 'cuz I cheap.

[Old Ape Face]

Recycled paper is rough because the fibers are random and not from the same source. It is like comparing a hamburger to a hamburger someone chewed, swallowed then vomited up. It also takes a lot more energy to make recycled paper than to cut down a tree and make new paper. The paper industry in the us also replants trees, in fact they do rotations to give the planted trees time to grow before harvesting.

um how do you replant Century(ies) Old Trees for production purposes?

Edit: Lurks more to Find the answer.

[Soluzar]

They plant fast growing pines like the loblolly and harvest them in 2 to 4 years.
Sure, that's what I would expect... just that the article claims otherwise, that they are harvesting ancient trees. Which sounds unlikely, considering that most paper production as far as I know is done from those fast-growing pines as you suggest.

I'm willing to bet that it's just misinformation planted by someone with an agenda, but if it is true, it's a bit silly.

My original home was coastal prairie and marsh now it is rife with trees that should not be there. Oddly enough the greens scream when people try to return the area to coastal prairie or wetlands by cutting down all these trees and re-flood the area. Stupid greens.
Ehh. Biodiversity is a good thing too.

[Bernard_Monsha]

um how do you replant Century(ies) Old Trees for production purposes?

They don't cut them down, all those trees were felled well before our time except in a few places. This should explain in terms you can understand why recycling paper is bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czKngCUASM)

[Old Ape Face]

They don't cut them down, all those trees were felled well before our time except in a few places. This should explain in terms you can understand why recycling paper is bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czKngCUASM)
Well duh, I knew that.

And Ancient Timber isn't exactly making their toilet paper that much more expencive for the higher class.

So this just makes the environmentalists much like PETA?

[Onigiri]

But it takes half a roll to even get the job done...

From what I hear. I wouldn't know since I'm a girl and I don't poop.

[Soluzar]

They don't cut them down, all those trees were felled well before our time except in a few places. This should explain in terms you can understand why recycling paper is bad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czKngCUASM)
Exactly as I assumed, so I'm left curious as to why the article includes such laughable misinformation.

[Caster13]

I prefer to know that when I wipe my *** the paper isn't going to give way (thankfully that's never happened before). If not having a handful of my own feces means the death of a few trees, then fire up those chainsaws!

It's these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4

I remember them. They should be shot in order to remove them from the genepool.

[Leader Desslock]

Toilet paper and paper towels are not made from old growth. They're made from wood chips, which are the leftovers from pretty much every other wood use.

You wouldn't waste old growth timber for a paper product. That'd be throwing away money.