No more cloves or menthol.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I like how they ban things that some people want to do, even though it doesn't hurt anybody. Bad news for GNK, and the entire US prison economy will collapse when Menthol Kools are banned.

FDA bans flavored cigarettes (http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2009/09/21/daily36.html)

The Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday officially banned cigarettes with candy, fruit or clove flavors, its first action since taking over responsibility for regulating the tobacco industry.

The FDA said the ban is aimed at reducing the appeal for smoking for children and cutting smoking rates in the country.

Neither Winston-Salem-based Reynolds American Inc. nor Greensboro-based Lorillard Inc. — the Nos. 2 and 3 tobacco companies in the country, respectively — make cigarettes with those flavors.

But the FDA said it is also “examining options” for regulating menthol cigarettes, a key category for Lorillard. Its flagship Newport brand is the top selling menthol cigarette and second-largest selling overall cigarette in the country. According to Lorillard’s second-quarter results, released in July, Newport owned about a 35 percent share of the menthol market and 10 percent share of the overall cigarette market.

Both Reynolds and Lorillard have joined a lawsuit that seeks to block several provisions of the law, passed this spring, that gave the FDA authority to regulate tobacco.

[Neko]

If they ban menthol I am going to be so pissed.

[Soluzar]

I heard about this a while ago, I'm a bit shocked really. I don't see how clove or menthol smokes are any worse than regular...

[tenshi_a]

Children are seduced by the flavour of cloves, these days?

I thought only really ancient people really preferred clove flavoured things.

Wow, I feel behind the times.

[Leader Desslock]

As I recall, the legislation in question specifically exempted menthol-flavored products from the "flavor" ban, and that exemption was the only way they could get enough support for the regulation. I imagine menthol's fairly safe for now.

[superplough]

I've never even heard of clove flavoured cigarettes

[Leader Desslock]

I don't smoke, but they smell better than standard cigarettes, if you're forced to be around smokers.

[Soluzar]

I've never even heard of clove flavoured cigarettes
I've heard of them before, but only from Americans. I don't think they are popular in the UK at all. Personally I can't think of anything more revolting, but people should be allowed to smoke whatever flavour of tobacco they like. Pipe tobacco especially comes in a vast range of flavours, at least here in the UK.

As long as tobacco is legal I see no reason to discriminate between types.

[Trefellin]

I've never even heard of clove flavoured cigarettes

Yeah, but the kids know about them and they're climbing over each other in a rush to get some sweet as ****, clove flavoured, toxic smoke into their pink, innocent lungs. That's why we have to put an end to this enticing, flavoured madness. What's next, cocaine that tastes like basel? Meth that smells like rosemary?

[Soluzar]

On the topic of flavoured smokes, I remember this one girl I know who used to make her own herbal cigarettes. Which is to say she had formulated a recipe including a few different herbs normally used for cooking, and mixed them with just a little tobacco and she'd roll cigarettes from the resultant mix. Smelled unbelievably foul, I don't mind telling you.

[Victory]

As I recall, the legislation in question specifically exempted menthol-flavored products from the "flavor" ban, and that exemption was the only way they could get enough support for the regulation. I imagine menthol's fairly safe for now.Their line of thinking right now is probably "if clove goes we're next zomg!!1"

On the topic of flavoured smokes, I remember this one girl I know who used to make her own herbal cigarettes. Which is to say she had formulated a recipe including a few different herbs normally used for cooking, and mixed them with just a little tobacco and she'd roll cigarettes from the resultant mix. Smelled unbelievably foul, I don't mind telling you.Were any of those "cooking herbs", pot? heh


By the way I didn't even know people smoked clove. We had to extract the active compound in one of our org. chem. labs in college. Smells good!

[Soluzar]

Were any of those "cooking herbs", pot? heh
From what I recall she never touched the stuff. I'm seriously talking about herbs like basil, tarragon, thyme...

[Spadesy]

I heard about this a while ago, I'm a bit shocked really. I don't see how clove or menthol smokes are any worse than regular...

Supposedly there are menthol crystals that get lodged into your lungs over time, they can cause ulcers.

But still...that's horse crap.

Okay, somebody please ban the Whopper combo meal at Burger King why don'tcha. Bastards.

Oh well. Looks like I'm going to have to go to off-base stores in Japan to get menthols. *thumbs up* Japan - 1, America - 0.

[SapperSix]

I don't like menthol cigarettes.

[Spadesy]

^ You're probably that guy that goes to the field with no smokes and is all like "hey, can I bum one from you?"

"Do you like menthols?"

"NO...but...GAW, alright, I'll take it anyway."

I should start hawking them for $$$. Or sexual favors. Whichever is available.

[SapperSix]

^ You're probably that guy that goes to the field with no smokes and is all like "hey, can I bum one from you?"

"Do you like menthols?"

"NO...but...GAW, alright, I'll take it anyway."

I should start hawking them for $$$. Or sexual favors. Whichever is available.

I always come prepared. If I do run out of cigarettes, I don't care what I bum. Beggars can't be choosers.

[CrossboneGundam]

I like how they ban things that some people want to do, even though it doesn't hurt anybody.

Yeah, cigarettes don't hurt anybody. Secondhand smoke is a myth made up by liberal extremists like doctors (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/promoting-healthy-lifestyles/smoking-tobacco-control.shtml) and scientists (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE58K4IQ20090921).

[Trefellin]

Yeah, cigarettes don't hurt anybody. Secondhand smoke is a myth made up by liberal extremists like doctors (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/promoting-healthy-lifestyles/smoking-tobacco-control.shtml) and scientists (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE58K4IQ20090921).

Specifically, he is referring to the flavouring. Not the cigarettes themselves. The cigarettes may be harmful but they are banning flavours, something which is not harmful.

[Jack_Bauer]

I don't mind smoking. I'm so accustomed to it and I know its not healthy for both users and the people around it. Most tobbacco consumers realizes the risk but they'll still do it anyway. The only tobbacco product that I buy are shisha/hookah molasses. I'm very particular about my shisha and I own a lot of pipes and I collect over 25 flavors. I plan to keep this going as I travel all over the world.

[Samurai Drifter]

Government's overstepped its bounds again, as usual.

How is it their right to tell adults what to put into their bodies? Please remind me.

[Victory]

How is it their right to tell adults what to put into their bodies? Please remind me.their job is to protect the public
the only reason tobacco hasn't been banned as a public health risk yet is the amount of $$$ behind it

[Bernard_Monsha]

Yeah, cigarettes don't hurt anybody. Secondhand smoke is a myth made up by liberal extremists like doctors (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/public-health/promoting-healthy-lifestyles/smoking-tobacco-control.shtml) and scientists (http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE58K4IQ20090921).


Have you ever been outside of the United States? Much less whatever grungy north western hamlet you are from. You would be simply amazed at how much other people in other countries smoke in all locations at all times. Yet the diseases that they claim are caused by second hand smoke are non-existent. The top smoking country in the (who smokes 4 times the cigarettes the US does per capita) is not even in the top 50 of any of the common diseases the AMA list yet they smoke everywhere at all times. It is also not a third world country. Ironically enough it and several other heavy smoking countries are all in the top 20 for longevity. Not all doctors beat the same drum (http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/) as the TRUTH people.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... GNK? nah. i'm good. i smoke regular stuff, but i usually enjoy a menthol when i need to poop - FACT.

as for flavored cigs, well, off with them, i say. but if they touch my reds, i'm willing to start a revolution. if i can't choose the way i want to poison myself and die, then what's freedom for?

[Shiroiyuki]

Pipe tobacco especially comes in a vast range of flavours, at least here in the UK.

I don't smoke, nor have any intention to ever do so, but golly gee...I remember being around pipe tobacco that smelled like vanilla as a child. Smelled lovely.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...so, does this include hookah? because Videl will start screaming BLACK RAGE and whip out a katana she bought from a con...

[Neko]

Also, news flash to these people--kinds don't start with those fruity flavored cigarettes, they start with Marlboro lights.

At least, all the ones I know did.

I wasn't even aware that there were "candy flavored" cigarettes until just recently, and I doubt any kids do either. It's not like people under smoking age can go in and browse through all the possible kinds of cigarettes, they send someone of age inside to buy some for them, and 9 times out of 10 it's going to be a kind that they've already seen someone else smoking. I don't think the flavor has anything to do with anything. Failban

[Caster13]

...so, does this include hookah? because Videl will start screaming BLACK RAGE and whip out a katana she bought from a con...

From what I've heard the government has banned that too.

[Haro!]

I hate the smell of the flavored cigarettes (I don't smoke at all but you can tell when someone around you does) more than the regular ones. This is a welcome change for me.

[master terrence]

I've tried both, I preferred cloves (but I don't really smoke anyways). The clove cigarette was really sweet, when I licked my lips after smoking it I swear I tasted sugar. Menthols are whatever.

But smoking in general (hookahs, cigars, cigarettes, water pipes) is gross regardless of the flavor. The bad breathe and that taste in your mouth the next morning is pretty terrible. If anything I'm sure the ban will cut down social smoking.

[Spadesy]

their job is to protect the public
the only reason tobacco hasn't been banned as a public health risk yet is the amount of $$$ behind it

The same thing can be said about alcohol.

And as we all know, Prohibition worked wonderful in the earlier part of the 20th century. Worked so well, that the ban on alcohol was repealled because the government could trust the Iron Will of the people [/dictator talk].

[RecentMidget]

I seem to recall Walt saying 'wait and see' about the FDA's control over something, and how it was some kind of conspiracy to take over **** like tyrants.

When in reality, they had to get support for this ban...meaning they had to ask for permission, or have a vote from people NOT in the FDA...


Desslock wins.

[KatayokuのTenshi]

Children are seduced by the flavour of cloves, these days?

I was going to say, cloves?

Also, news flash to these people--kinds don't start with those fruity flavored cigarettes, they start with Marlboro lights.

Coincidently it was recently made illegal in the UK to call cigarettes 'lights' because it implied that they were some how healthier (which they supposedly aren't).

Unfortunately people still call them by the old names, which left me (a non-smoker) trying desperately to figure out just what cigarettes they were after.

[Neko]

^Yeah, they just did that here too. Now there's just a big warning label around the package that says "Lights does not mean safer" or something to that effect. It just means that the flavor isn't as strong, something I would've assumed everyone who smokes cigarettes already knew.

[superplough]

Coincidently it was recently made illegal in the UK to call cigarettes 'lights' because it implied that they were some how healthier (which they supposedly aren't).

Unfortunately people still call them by the old names, which left me (a non-smoker) trying desperately to figure out just what cigarettes they were after.

They did that here too, about a year ago. Nothing is allowed to be called "Light" or "Mild". But everyone knows the blue ones are mild, and the gold ones are even more mild.

[Carhill22]

cloves are pretty tasty.. I don't smoke regularly though.. only when my girlfriend isn't around and i've had a few..

menthols a kinda nice too, they make my mouth tingle.. but if either dissapear I really won't care..

[master terrence]

Cloves aren't only tasty in a cig's either. I put them in my yellow rice, they cook in wonderfully. Now if you bite into one of them raw :x I feel sorry for you.

Have you guys ever had those mango flavored phillies (fake cigars) that are usually on display at gas stations? don't waste your time, they don't taste like mango at all. Those should be banned for sure.

[JoeStrummer]

^ They do if you lick them, smoking them has no flavour whatsoever.

I love flavoured pipe tobacco, good thing I'm Canadian.

[waltsoph3]

I seem to recall Walt saying 'wait and see' about the FDA's control over something, and how it was some kind of conspiracy to take over **** like tyrants.

When in reality, they had to get support for this ban...meaning they had to ask for permission, or have a vote from people NOT in the FDA...


Desslock wins.

uhm..I said wait and see 1 year after the law goes into effect. Thats what I said.
Besides I don't care about winning ok but this at least shows you one point I did explain. The point that with FDA in control of regulating tobacco there was gonna be some dramatic changes and this is one of them.

I can't find it right now but theres now a story where tobacco companies are suing the government in a lawsuit about the tobacco companies constitutional rights being infringed(it was on yahoo news a couple of weeks ago). Unfortunately its gonna be a pointless lawsuit they can't even win so no point to get into it about that one.

So like I said..just wait and pay attention to sales once the laws go into effect. Then it will be answered.

btw good point by Spadesy pointing out the prohibition history lesson. Makes me wonder how history is gonna write this chapter when its all said and done.

[Samurai Drifter]

their job is to protect the public
If that were true, it would be their job to make illegal anything that could be potentially harmful- from cars to paint to kitchen knives.

I don't need to be protected from myself, thankyouverymuch.

[Victory]

ok I see Spadesy and Samurai Drifter brought up alcohol, cars, paint, knives etc. The difference between these things and tobacco is that they have responsible uses.

I don't need to be protected from myself, thankyouverymuch.Many compounds and materials were banned because people were harming themselves with them. The problem is that many times the dangers are not obvious, so in that sense, people do need to be protected "from themselves". Or are you disputing the idea that people are harming themselves with tobacco and can't stop because of nicotine dependence?

[Bernard_Monsha]

ok I see Spadesy and Samurai Drifter brought up alcohol, cars, paint, knives etc. The difference between these things and tobacco is that they have responsible uses.

What do you mean by responsible uses?

[willag]

Honestly, I can't work up enough of a crap to give a hootin' holler either way. I don't smoke, so this neither benefits me nor goes against my favor.

However, bans placed on public smoking? Hells yeah, I'm behind those all the way.

I was living in Ohio attending college when the state brought out its Smoking Ban. The people around me were pissed, even those who didn't smoke 'cause they didn't like the infringement on their rights, but I was secretly pleased. Ah, to go into a restaurant and not have to smell that **** was amazing.

And now, the place I'm working at in Indiana is starting a "no smoking on the premises" policy at the beginning of next year. Yay!

[Neko]

A ban on smoking outdoors in public is not going to work, and I'll tell you why--I don't care if it's legal or not, I am still going to smoke wherever I want, banned or not. I'm sure it will be the same for other people. So they can go ahead and ban it for all I care. It's easy to enforce smoking bans inside restaurants, but outside, there aren't going to be a bunch of cops breathing down people's necks all the time just to make sure they aren't smoking.

[Spadesy]

ok I see Spadesy and Samurai Drifter brought up alcohol, cars, paint, knives etc. The difference between these things and tobacco is that they have responsible uses.

All of those things, including tobacco, can be used responsibly. The sun causes cancer. Oh well, I guess the government should regulate the amount of time we are allowed in the sun, eh? :rolleyes: By your logic, nobody should be allowed any pleasure in life if it harms them, even in the long-term...just have us all lay down and die why don't ya?

Edit: For the record, I can't tell you how often I see Okinawan people smoking whenever, wherever they want. And yet, they are still one of the world's longest-living groups of people (that's right, even with our horrible horrible gaijin influences like fast food). Something to think about.

[Leader Desslock]

It's easy to enforce smoking bans inside restaurants, but outside, there aren't going to be a bunch of cops breathing down people's necks all the time just to make sure they aren't smoking.
Never been to Boulder, CO?

There are, as it turns out, a bunch of cops breathing down peoples' necks all the time just to make sure they aren't smoking. Tobacco, anyway. Can't smoke tobacco in Boulder in public, except in designated areas with special permits. Nossir. Not tobacco.

[Victory]

All of those things, including tobacco, can be used responsibly. The sun causes cancer. Oh well, I guess the government should regulate the amount of time we are allowed in the sun, eh? By your logic, nobody should be allowed any pleasure in life if it harms them, even in the long-term...just have us all lay down and die why don't ya?

Edit: For the record, I can't tell you how often I see Okinawan people smoking whenever, wherever they want. And yet, they are still one of the world's longest-living groups of people (that's right, even with our horrible horrible gaijin influences like fast food). Something to think about.Listen we could ping pong back rationalizations all day but it doesn't change that the scientific consensus is that the maximal recommended nicotine/tar/etc./tobacco dosage per day is way below what the intake from cigarettes is. The moment the sweet heady scent of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarettes enters your nostrils you are hurting yourself and anyone who catches a whiff of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarette by being nearby or being near your clothes later on in the day. People who don't smoke do inhale smoke by being around smokers. Do I need to dredge up studies on the effects of cigarette smoke to prove this, in 2009?

Getting back to the main point, no one seems to smoke funky flavored ciggies so I can only hope this is a first step toward a larger ban on menthols which are more popular.

By the way "lights" and "milds" do have less tar and nicotine (don't know about the other chemicals) but they found it didn't matter since people who smoke lights just smoked more often and more intensely to compensate.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Listen we could ping pong back rationalizations all day but it doesn't change that the scientific consensus is that the maximal recommended nicotine/tar/etc./tobacco dosage per day is way below what the intake from cigarettes is. The moment the sweet heady scent of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarettes enters your nostrils you are hurting yourself and anyone who catches a whiff of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarette by being nearby or being near your clothes later on in the day. People who don't smoke do inhale smoke by being around smokers. Do I need to dredge up studies on the effects of cigarette smoke to prove this, in 2009?

It is one thing if you are the smoker, second hand smoke's effects are more nebulous and wrapped in assumptions. As I said before countries which smoke far more than we do do not see any appreciable difference in disease blamed on second hand smoke in the US. In fact the current climate (which are part of) echoes the first big push to ban public smoking.

[DavenIII]

I quit smoking, but I smoked for 13 years....Newports, I don't understand this, Drinking is also bad for you, Driving is dangerous, none of these things are banned, if a person knowingly endangers his or her health that's his or her decision what right does the gov. have to stop the individual, I understand the points about 2nd hand smoke, but as Bernard mentioned, the health dangers from that are much less concrete, on top of that, I don't know how it is everywhere else, but in NJ and NY...noone need be standing by smokers, we are forced outside of every type of establishment Smoke dissipates in the air so fast, I can't see how you could conceivable be worried about someone smoking 20 foot away from you outside....do you honestly think that's a danger to your health?

[fujyoshi]

wow I didn't even know they had flavor in them o_O what do they have coffee flavor and vanilla or something? No wonder everyones addicted and surely enough that could be like a seduction for the kids too so in that sense its bad /swt Ironicly I heard about this on good day yesterday

[DavenIII]

No wonder everyones addicted

No Fuji, noone is addicted to the taste, they are addicted to the Nicotine...the taste is just a preference.

[fujyoshi]

No Fuji, noone is addicted to the taste, they are addicted to the Nicotine...the taste is just a preference.

oh yea I shoulda noticed that from all the commercials they slap on the tv tawking about the nicotine /heh but meh its not applicable to me because I don't smoke (:

[Neko]

Also, the fact that no one smokes vanilla or coffee flavored cigarettes. No one.

Maybe something like...

Smoker: Oh wow, vanilla cigarettes. I'm going to try these.
*Smoker buys vanilla cigarettes.
Smoker: Well, that was interesting.
*Smoker never buys vanilla cigarettes again.

[Leader Desslock]

^ Not true. Plenty of young people buy those little Prime Time cigars down here, vanilla being a very popular flavor, to judge by the number of those little tubes I see littering the ground.

Yeah, they're marketed as 'cigars', but I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between those and a clove cigarette.

[Soluzar]

Also, the fact that no one smokes vanilla or coffee flavored cigarettes. No one.
Unlike Leader Desslock I can't speak from personal observations which demonstrate they are being smoked, but I notice several long-established brands of such flavoured tobacco products. They are always marketed as cigars, as he noted, but they are sized like cigarettes.

It is also worth noting that flavoured pipe tobaccos have enjoyed vast popularity. I know for a fact that both coffee and vanilla flavours can easily be procured within reasonable distance of my home... not that I shall be partaking.

[Neko]

It looks to me like this ban covers cigarettes like those goofy ones Camel used to have, not little cigars or flavored pipe tobacco.

[Bernard_Monsha]

It looks to me like this ban covers cigarettes like those goofy ones Camel used to have, not little cigars or flavored pipe tobacco.

Yet.......

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... wasn't there a Penn and Teller episode about this already?

[333jeffery]

Hav-a-Tampa cigars closed their factory here just a few months ago. Sad to see these old businesses die: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article1012864.ece
The increase in "sin taxes" is one of the things that killed them off....

[Samurai Drifter]

Listen we could ping pong back rationalizations all day but it doesn't change that the scientific consensus is that the maximal recommended nicotine/tar/etc./tobacco dosage per day is way below what the intake from cigarettes is. The moment the sweet heady scent of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarettes enters your nostrils you are hurting yourself and anyone who catches a whiff of Marlboro(tm) Full-Bodied Flavor Cigarette by being nearby or being near your clothes later on in the day. People who don't smoke do inhale smoke by being around smokers. Do I need to dredge up studies on the effects of cigarette smoke to prove this, in 2009?
There's no question that cigarettes are bad for you.

So is alcohol, coffee, fast food, etc. They're all bad for you. The moment that sip of beer enters your mouth, you are hurting yourself and anyone who depends on you to have intact judgement. The moment that McDonald's hamburger enters your mouth you're contributing to the clogging of your arteries.

Are you suggesting that those should be made illegal as well? That I shouldn't be able to choose to sacrifice a tiny bit of my health for convenience and tasty food?

I would say the impact of secondhand smoke that one gets simply from walking by a smoker as one would on the street are basically negligible.

[Soluzar]

So is alcohol, coffee, fast food, etc. They're all bad for you. The moment that sip of beer enters your mouth, you are hurting yourself and anyone who depends on you to have intact judgement. The moment that McDonald's hamburger enters your mouth you're contributing to the clogging of your arteries.
There's a recomended safe amount of those things, a level of consumption which won't affect your health too much. There isn't a safe amount of smoking that you can do.

However, I don't advocate a ban, I'm just saying that's the difference.

[Victory]

There's a recomended safe amount of those things, a level of consumption which won't affect your health too much. There isn't a safe amount of smoking that you can do.Exactly. Any time you guys want to keep pushing that particular reductio ad absurdum let me know.

However, I don't advocate a ban, I'm just saying that's the difference.I do hope they ban it. Tobacco is an anachronism propped up by lots of money.

Looking into the blog bernard linked to however, banning flavored cigarettes is not how they're going to make tobacco disappear. The law doesn't ban the most popular flavor (menthol) and does not target flavored cigars and cigarillos. So in effect they're banning a minuscule % of the market. The law was even backed by phillip-morris either as part of an incredibly cynical PR ploy or to increase their market share.

Bernard I didn't find the report on the effects of second-hand smoke by country on the blog though, can you link to that? To me the effects of second-hand smoke are not hazy at all. The only hazy thing about it is whatever is coming out of the pipe of the person who is telling you it's not dangerous.

[Samurai Drifter]

There's a recomended safe amount of those things, a level of consumption which won't affect your health too much. There isn't a safe amount of smoking that you can do.

However, I don't advocate a ban, I'm just saying that's the difference.
I would say a cigarette once a week or so hurts you about the same amount as a beer once a week or so.

Both are addictive substances. Shall we make both of them illegal?

[superplough]

^yes

(filler)

[Bernard_Monsha]

Rather than start a new thread I decided to add this related story in.

Dallas woman fuming over smoking neighbor at complex (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/093009dnmetsmokingfeud.3ed620b.html)

In an age when smoking has been outlawed in most public places – government buildings, bars and pool halls – a person's home is one of the few places you can puff in peace.

Until now.

A Dallas woman has filed a lawsuit seeking six figures from a former neighbor and landlord for damage she says was caused by cigarette smoke wafting through adjoining walls of her high-end townhome.

"Smoking is not a right, it's a privilege," said Chris Daniel, a retired nurse. "I'm sorry that people smoke. I think it's foolish, but when it comes into my house and hurts my health and my daughter's health and our belongings, it's a different issue."

The case is being watched by townhouse industry groups across the area.

A manager and attorney for Estancia Townhomes, a 52-building community near Prestonwood Country Club in North Dallas, said it's unlikely the Daniels sustained any smoke damage. There is a solid, two-hour fire wall from the foundation to the roof between each of the homes.

And even if some smell did seep through, the Daniels renewed their lease at Estancia – where smoking is permitted – six months after they say the problem began.

"Why do people file lawsuits?" asked Ginger Tye, an attorney representing the property managers and owners. "They're asking for money damages."

The next-door smoker, Rebecca Williams, declined comment.

Chris Daniel and her daughter, Cary, say in the lawsuit that a construction defect is allowing smoke to migrate between the units.

After a year of stinging eyes, breathing difficulty and sinus pain, they moved out of Estancia and into the Homewood Suites in Addison. Last week, movers wearing surgical masks loaded trucks with their belongings.

The Daniels said furniture will need to be reupholstered, artwork restored and closets full of clothing dry cleaned. The bills are still piling up.

"There's nothing in our home that was ready made. I picked out fabrics, everything was custom made and everything was spotless," said Chris Daniel.

"It's not like our worldly goods are the most important things in our life, but you know what? I don't expect them to be damaged."

Some multifamily communities have followed the lead of hotels and car-rental companies – designating nonsmoking rooms or buildings. The Glass House, a 21-story high-rise in Dallas' Uptown, markets itself as a smoke-free property.

Unfamiliar territory


Kathy Carlton, director of government affairs for the Apartment Association of Greater Dallas, said she's never heard of a case such as the one filed by the Daniels.

She said most people who are highly sensitive to cigarette smoke don't move into a community or a building where it's allowed.

"Generally, this stuff is the property owners' prerogative, and people either live by the rules or move on down the street," Carlton said.

"If you have a pet, you look for a place that takes pets. If you hate pets, you look for a place that doesn't allow them. People have choices."

The Daniels said the freedom to choose cuts both ways.

Yes, people may be entitled to smoke in their home – but others are equally entitled to live in a clean and healthy environment.

The right to swing your fist, they said, ends when it meets my nose.

"This lease says I have a right to a habitable place, this lease says I have a right to quiet enjoyment, this lease says I have a right to safe living," said Chris Daniel, referring to court documents.

"And I did have that ... until someone moved in who did not care about her neighbor."

The Daniels lived at Estancia for four years. Today, after a final walkthrough of their home with an attorney and managers, they will hand over the keys.

Nicole Lott, property director at Estancia, said it's been a long year of acrimony.

Managers replaced air filters repeatedly, installed sealant-type electrical plates and – at the Daniels' request – used an industrial-grade roofing sealant to caulk pipes under their kitchen cabinet.

When that didn't work, managers tried to negotiate a move for both tenants within the community.

Restraining order


Williams, the smoker, finally moved to another unit in June after a judge issued a temporary restraining order forbidding her from lighting up in her home.

"We've done more for these people than we've ever done for anyone else," Lott said. "I don't think it's possible to satisfy them."

Chris Daniel also filed a complaint under the Texas Fair Housing Act, alleging that her sensitivity to cigarette smoke qualifies her for protection set aside for people with disabilities.

The complaint is being reviewed by Dallas' Fair Housing Office.

First Assistant City Attorney Chris Bowers said a garden-variety reaction to cigarette smoke – puffy eyes, runny nose, coughing – would probably not meet the standard set by the law, a severe limitation of a major life activity.

"Not just anybody will be able to say smoking has that effect, and that's one of the things our Fair Housing Office will investigate," he said.

"It's safe to say most people do not suffer the degree of impairment this person alleges from cigarette smoke."

Chris Daniel has been treated by an allergist and an internist, according to court records, and was prescribed two inhalers.

Dr. Barbara Stark Baxter, a clinical associate professor at UT Southwestern Medical Center, wrote that Daniels "qualifies as disabled under the Texas Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act."

Her attorney, John Clark Long V, said his clients were essentially driven from their home by cigarette smoke.

He illustrated the case this way:

"It was like living life in an ashtray you can never clean."

[333jeffery]

Anytime someone invokes the ADA, they immediately lose my sympathy for their cause. Also, they should be beaten with 2x4's....

[Bernard_Monsha]

Anytime someone invokes the ADA, they immediately lose my sympathy for their cause. Also, they should be beaten with 2x4's....

I think when they loose their suit they should be forced to live in Japan or Greece for 5 years.

[Soluzar]

I would say a cigarette once a week or so hurts you about the same amount as a beer once a week or so.
I would say you're fooling yourself, but I don't really care to argue the point since I'm not sure how I'd go about proving it either way. I'm a former smoker, so I'm not trying to adopt a hard line anti-tobacco stance, but I find it foolish for even those who choose to indulge in it to deny the deleterious effects.

Both are addictive substances. Shall we make both of them illegal?
If either were discovered for the first time today, they would be prohibited. Of course people would still consume alcohol, regardless. It's easy to produce at home, but my point is that by modern standards neither of them would be considered acceptable if not for hundreds of years of tradition.

I don't consider it appropriate to equate the two, either. Most smokers of tobacco product are addicted to some extent, whereas most who consume alcohol are not.

[DazzleKitty]

I used to smoke quite often but I have gotten to the point where I maybe have two or so a week.

If they ban menthol cigs that is gonna piss me off. Those are the kinds that I like. It will make so many other smokers angry too. If a minor is gonna wanna smoke, then they will take whatever they get. If they are so worried about it then they may as well ban smoking altogether.

How pathetic.

And I guess I'll never get another Sweet Dreams chocolate flavored cigarette, will I? :(