So much for Freedom of Speech

[animeotaku99]

Ok I am raging right now.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1966/text

This bill makes it a FELONY if you hurt someones feelings on the INTERENT, CELLPHONE, radio and TV.

also you can be retried (double Jeopardy)if if the feds don't think your sentence was harsh enough

current status: referred to committee

[Siendra]

I'm not American, so I'm not really going to look into this to deeply, but isn't the bill more meant to prevent harassment?

[animeotaku99]

no, it makes you a FELON for making Emo kids cry on DevaintArt and facebook

[Reidar]

It'd have to be recurring and deliberate in its intent ("repeated" is key), so it's not really any different in extent than existing harassment laws. You wouldn't exactly get busted for throwing names out in a heated e-fight.

[Old Ape Face]

no, it makes you a FELON for making Emo kids cry on DevaintArt and facebook

Which sounds like a form of harassment in my mind, but you can have your opinion too that's alright I guess.

[Holy Knight]

While I'm cautious about saying this is a threat to free speech, I can't deny the wording makes it difficult to defend the bill.

They do use "substantial" and "severe" to qualify the harassment, so I'm curious to know how it will be handled. There's a lot of room for abuse, that's for sure.

[Leader Desslock]

Reading the relevant text:

Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
That behaviour would constitute harassment in any other form, so I can't say it's as draconian as you're making it out to be.

Take computers out of the equation and instead substitute... I dunno... paper mail. Snailmail, I think they call it. Something delivered by your local postman. Anyway, if you demonstrated repeated, hostile communication via regular mail with the intent to "coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress", a judge would be more than happy to issue a restraining order against you, and you certainly could end up with the police knocking on your door if you chose to send more.

This is just an e-equivalent. An Eequivalent.

Both parties have free speech, and First Amendment is designed to protect everyone's right to express himself. This kind of harassment (the serial, deliberate harassment kind) is viewed as a damper on the victim's own ability to express himself. Hence the law.

Free speech isn't being ended; it's being protected from ********.

While I'm cautious about saying this is a threat to free speech, I can't deny the wording makes it difficult to defend the bill.

They do use "substantial" and "severe" to qualify the harassment, so I'm curious to know how it will be handled. There's a lot of room for abuse, that's for sure.
I'd be more worried if this wasn't just the initial draft. This will go through numerous revisions as it passes trough congress, where - hopefully - the wording will be tightened. Or more likely, existing terminology (with footnotes to the legal definitions for the terms) will be substituted for the vague terms.

[l0k1]

But this bill would mean i would have to find something else to do with 50% of my internet usage. :/

Oh wait, i'm English.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Reading the relevant text:


That behaviour would constitute harassment in any other form, so I can't say it's as draconian as you're making it out to be.

Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?

[The Million Dollar Prons]

I thought this was going to be a Walter thread, but seeing as he changed his AVatar to the Ultimate Warrior he's probably too busy WINNING to post threads

[Leader Desslock]

Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?
I lack the required intent, but it would be a funny trial. :lol:

[Bernard_Monsha]

I lack the required intent, but it would be a funny trial. :lol:

You laugh, but he lives in an hour away from the frivolous federal lawsuit empire.

[Leader Desslock]

You laugh, but he lives in an hour away from the frivolous federal lawsuit empire.
Yeah, but I'd have to have the actual intent to humiliate or intimidate him, which I don't. I simply don't care one way or the other; if he feels humiliated or intimidated, that'd be secondary to my own goal. Since the law doesn't fault people for "not making sure they don't humiliate or intimidate other people as a side effect of their communication", I'm pretty safe from prosecution.

Add to that the fact that if he really wanted to shield himself from my communication, he could simply put me on his ignore list, which wouldn't infringe upon his ability to express himself in any way. Since he's opted not to do this, he's implicitly agreeing to view the content of my posts.

It's a pretty winnable case, even if it goes to trial.


In regards to the wording of the new legislation, I think it'd be awesome if the term "butthurt" made it into the legal lexicon. :lol:

[goddessofanime]

Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?

ROFL

that was the first thing I thought of too :lol:

[old hat]

Freedom of speech has never been unlimited and shouldn't be unlimited.

[animeotaku99]

but making some little punk cry on the internet should not lead to a felony conviction, it shouldn't lead to anything at all.

watch this: HEY OLD HAT, you're a little punk and I banged your mom! There i just committed a felony

[goddessofanime]

but making some little punk cry on the internet should not lead to a felony conviction, it shouldn't lead to anything at all.

watch this: HEY OLD HAT, you're a little punk and I banged your mom! There i just committed a felony

I don't think the law means that if you call out someone like, 'Animeotaku you're a wackjob and I just banged your dad' that you just committed a felony.

The case that they're naming this after involved a girl who killed herself because her rival's mother pretended to be someone else and told her that she would be better off dead. I think the law is more for that type of harassment

[waltsoph3]

You know guys I was actually gonna butt out on this topic but clearly as one of my favorite the MJ song goes.."You wanna be starting something."

Well here I am so bring it freaking on.

@ Desslock
Careful ...
"I am Jack's smirking revenge."

But no don't worry about that. I'm huge fan of fight club.
Relax..this whole thing is just dumb. period.



Besides even if I used the "ignore" button it still doesn't stop others from viewing it. Admit Desslock like the saying goes in the movie A few good man. "You want me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall".lol


@ everyone

Yeah i heard about it but theres no point in me talking about it. Clearly you all have it in your minds I'm this crazy paranoid wacko..that i need therapy. It doesn't matter what I say your just wanting an excuse.

Well let me tell you guys something..I find it very therapeutic to speak my mind on the threads. Even if you don't like what i got to say.



Just because you don't like what i have to say doesn't mean i need to go to a freaking doctor. As a saying goes its better to get it off your chest then keep inside you.

So please...back off.



Now about this bill..I don't know much about it. I just learned about it a few days ago.
It is an attack on free speech. Just the very fact we're talking about a proposed bill to stop "name calling" clearly shows people have become wimps.
I know its hard..i hate bullies. :(

I'm a victim of cyber bullying on here and you guys know it. I've been a victim of it on other sites too. Wish i could tell them to just shut up. But that would break the rules.

I know it won't do me any good since after all its just words.
But do you see me crying out to sue someone..no.

Sorry people no walt vs desslock.



I do wish to encourage the AN mods to try and do a better job at policing the site. It can help stop cyber bulling stunts regardless who it is.

I understand though the main reason why we're talking about passing it..what happened to that teen was truly despicable. That woman clearly committed murder and she got away with it. Thats what I call it. :mad:

Freedom of speech has never been unlimited and shouldn't be unlimited.
Would you please care to be more specific on why you mean that? I'm just curious.

While I'm cautious about saying this is a threat to free speech, I can't deny the wording makes it difficult to defend the bill.

They do use "substantial" and "severe" to qualify the harassment, so I'm curious to know how it will be handled. There's a lot of room for abuse, that's for sure.

Yeah I defently agree with that I think thats what makes this bill questionable. I'm just curious to learn what is gonna be proposed by it.

@again at everyone
One things for sure I'm not worried. Free speech isn't going anywhere.
The courts would be swamped with cases like this all day long.

Although..it would be funny to see a judge just say enough and resign because of it.lol..:huh:no wait..that actually would be bad.

[Trefellin]

Now now, anger and the internet mixes about as well as tomato sauce and diarrhea pills. Calm down, Animeotaku.

It seems like they are just extending current harassment laws into the internet.

[Leader Desslock]

but making some little punk cry on the internet should not lead to a felony conviction...
Nor would it be a felony, unless the person making him cry did so repeatedly, for months, following him all over the internet with the expressed intent to make him cry, despite repeated requests to leave the little punk alone.

And then the burden of proof would still be on the prosecution.

Just "making a little punk cry" is as different from "criminal harassment" as "he owned some manga" is to "Christopher Handley". I think we need to be very clear in both cases.

watch this: HEY OLD HAT, you're a little punk and I banged your mom! There i just committed a felony
Not according to the definition of the pending legislative amendment, you didn't.

[goddessofanime]

You take everything on this site waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, walt.

Who cares if people haggle you? My God..it's just the internet. And this is just a stupid anime site. If I let people get to me every time I got flamed, I'd never go anywhere on the internet...

[fujyoshi]

I guess they're trying to stop internet harassment or something

[waltsoph3]

You take everything on this site waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, walt.

Who cares if people haggle you? My God..it's just the internet. And this is just a stupid anime site. If I let people get to me every time I got flamed, I'd never go anywhere on the internet...

exactly.

And no i don't always take things serious. But you have to admit..this is a serious issue thats being discussed here. :(

Sorry if i'm talking about a serious topic.

And besides haggeling IS a way of bulling. Can we at least agree on that?

[Old Ape Face]

Would you please care to be more specific on why you mean that? I'm just curious.

he's saying that there have always been some law or some thing that restricts complete freedom of speech. Even in the United States, While it may be written in the constitution it's not always the same as when expressed out in public.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is a perfect example.

[Trefellin]

And besides haggeling IS a way of bulling. Can we at least agree on that?

Haggling is bullying? How about this, we call it intimidation and you've got a deal.

...

:shifty:

[waltsoph3]

he's saying that there have always been some law or some thing that restricts complete freedom of speech. Even in the United States, While it may be written in the constitution it's not always the same as when expressed out in public.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is a perfect example.

(nods in agreement)

Excellent point. That makes sense.


Haggling is bullying? Let's call it intimidation and you've got a deal.

Actually lets take that as an example with the questioning of this bill.

I called it "bulling" and you called it "intimidation".

Isn't intimidation the same as bullying except we're cleverly changing the word of the context?

Now lets take that..and then apply it to why the bill might be questionable.
Words can be changed to apply to someones advantage. Epically in court thats why some people question its true meaning. All because of changing up the words. Just something to consider there.

[fujyoshi]

You take everything on this site waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, walt.

Who cares if people haggle you? My God..it's just the internet. And this is just a stupid anime site. If I let people get to me every time I got flamed, I'd never go anywhere on the internet...

true but some people are dumb and they take stuff too seriously. Like I'm sure you heard stories about crazy kids that end up killing themselves just because someone flamed them online, heck even that one famous lady tried to kill herself after she got flamed on some forum or whatever.

[SapperSix]

And besides haggling IS a way of bulling. Can we at least agree on that?

This is what makes SE Asia so great. You could buy "expensive" **** for almost dirt cheap prices.

[Leader Desslock]

@ Desslock
Careful ...
"I am Jack's smirking revenge."
Okay... see - this, I can respect. I can respect any good Fight Club reference.

Admit Desslock like the saying goes in the movie A few good man. "You want me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall".lol
Not really, but I'm also not going to stop you from standing in front of that wall with a blindfold, if you catch my drift. :P

I'm a victim of cyber bullying on here and you guys know it.
Actually, I don't see that. You've got your detractors and defenders on here, same as a lot of new people. But nobody's actively crusading to smite you into oblivion or get you to jump off your town's watertower or anything.

Trust me - there are people who've gotten it WAY worse than you have. I think Punnchy's taken more flack for being a furry, quite honestly. People might call you on your lack of substantial support for your beliefs in a discussion, but when people rip Punnchy apart, it's personal. You'll notice we don't have so many open loli/pedo fans on the boards these days, and that's because they tend to get driven away. Gods know we had fun with Minoru, too, but he was certifiably insane. Heck, even Zugzwang (et al) caught nine dimensions of Hell when he signed up. And that's not to mention Shinji_Ikari...

Believe it or not, you've had it pretty tame. If you'd been here for the old days of SD&D (when Trolls were Real Trolls), you'd probably have nightmares.

Wish i could tell them to just shut up. But that would break the rules.
If it's me you're talking about, I'm quite confident you could tell me to shut up with absolutely no mod repercussions whatsoever. I believe the joint admin/mod/general forum judgment would be, "Good. It's about time someone told Dess to shut up." :lol:


Haggling is bullying? How about this, we call it intimidation and you've got a deal.
:lol:

Look! What's that? In the sky! Is it a bird? A plane? No! It's the contrail of that punchline going straight over the target's head!

[goddessofanime]

exactly.

And no i don't always take things serious. But you have to admit..this is a serious issue thats being discussed here. :(

Sorry if i'm talking about a serious topic.

And besides haggeling IS a way of bulling. Can we at least agree on that?

Sorry but if some b*tch pretended to be someone else just to get back at my daughter who killed herself I'd be grabbing one of animeotaku's guns and killing her myself. It might be online, but harassment is harassment.

[waltsoph3]

true but some people are dumb and they take stuff too seriously. Like I'm sure you heard stories about crazy kids that end up killing themselves just because someone flamed them online, heck even that one famous lady tried to kill herself after she got flamed on some forum or whatever.

exactly. :( Some people do take it way serious. To the point they do snap.
But this in fairness could happen anywhere only difference is back then it was just "dear john letters".

Today its a whole new playground. Because people can diss people and get away with it.



Not really, but I'm also not going to stop you from standing in front of that wall with a blindfold, if you catch my drift. :P


Aww man. You ruined my joke. :( No fair.lol



Actually, I don't see that. You've got your detractors and defenders on here, same as a lot of new people. But nobody's actively crusading to smite you into oblivion or get you to jump off your town's watertower or anything.

Trust me - there are people who've gotten it WAY worse than you have. I think Punnchy's taken more flack for being a furry, quite honestly. People might call you on your lack of substantial support for your beliefs in a discussion, but when people rip Punnchy apart, it's personal. You'll notice we don't have so many open loli/pedo fans on the boards these days, and that's because they tend to get driven away. Gods know we had fun with Minoru, too, but he was certifiably insane. Heck, even Zugzwang (et al) caught nine dimensions of Hell when he signed up. And that's not to mention Shinji_Ikari...

Believe it or not, you've had it pretty tame. If you'd been here for the old days of SD&D (when Trolls were Real Trolls), you'd probably have nightmares.


After hearing this..you defently made a great point.
That does mean a lot to me thank you very much.
I did need that.:)


If it's me you're talking about, I'm quite confident you could tell me to shut up with absolutely no mod repercussions whatsoever. I believe the joint admin/mod/general forum judgment would be, "Good. It's about time someone told Dess to shut up." :lol:


No..I'm not like that. Theres times i want to say it to some people, but i don't.
It would be rude and i try my best to not be a rude person.

Sorry but if some b*tch pretended to be someone else just to get back at my daughter who killed herself I'd be grabbing one of animeotaku's guns and killing her myself. It might be online, but harassment is harassment.

I agree the punishment doesn't fit the crime. She should have gotten Life in prison or the death penalty. It still breaks my heart that she got away with it..
Its important though that we don't go into public anarchy. The courts did what they could.

[CrossboneGundam]

Ok I am raging right now.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1966/text

This bill makes it a FELONY if you hurt someones feelings on the INTERENT, CELLPHONE, radio and TV.

also you can be retried (double Jeopardy)if if the feds don't think your sentence was harsh enough

current status: referred to committee

Who says it passed into law? And who says it's federal? And did you read the text? And understand it?

Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?

"Versus" is kind of a strong word for such a one-sided battle.

[Old Ape Face]

Trust me - there are people who've gotten it WAY worse than you have. I think Punnchy's taken more flack for being a furry, quite honestly. People might call you on your lack of substantial support for your beliefs in a discussion, but when people rip Punnchy apart, it's personal. You'll notice we don't have so many open loli/pedo fans on the boards these days, and that's because they tend to get driven away. Gods know we had fun with Minoru, too, but he was certifiably insane. Heck, even Zugzwang (et al) caught nine dimensions of Hell when he signed up. And that's not to mention Shinji_Ikari...

This is quite true, listen to the man he's been around the block more times than I've been crucified at the political table for making ridiculous assumptions to things that are obvious.

[animeotaku99]

I can't finish out a day with out at least one paranoid rant.... thanks guys good night

[Bernard_Monsha]

I do wish to encourage the AN mods to try and do a better job at policing the site. It can help stop cyber bulling stunts regardless who it is.

Sorry but ridicule and the subsequent butthurt is nature's way of making you a better poster. Why would we interefere with nature to save the one poster who cannot recognize their posting patterns will provoke a negative response?

[Soluzar]

I'm a victim of cyber bullying on here and you guys know it. I've been a victim of it on other sites too. Wish i could tell them to just shut up. But that would break the rules.
The site changes. The people change. The situation, and the thread changes. The common factor... is you. What does that tell you, Walt? It tells me that you're acting in such a way as to invite a certain type of response. You have the power to stop that if you wish.

I do wish to encourage the AN mods to try and do a better job at policing the site. It can help stop cyber bulling stunts regardless who it is.
Sure... I'd like to encourage them to make proper grammar and spelling compulsory. I'd like a whole lot of things, but it's not going to happen. In the whole time you've been on this site, nobody has ever treated you in a manner that could pass for harassment, not even Desslock. This site is a discussion forum, and when you discuss things people are allowed both to disagree and to deconstruct your posted position. It's all fair game.

The reason Desslock makes so many attempts to pick apart the illogical theories you post is because he's trying to help you. That's obvious to me, and it really should be obvious to you. We can certainly agree that his words aren't sugar-coated, but it would appear to me that he's attempting to show you exactly why your worldview is illogical, and how to replace it with one more logical.

I would use your least favourite phrase, but I have no wish to provoke you. :P

I understand though the main reason why we're talking about passing it..what happened to that teen was truly despicable. That woman clearly committed murder and she got away with it. Thats what I call it. :mad:
It could not be called murder unless Megan Meier's suicide was the deliberate and intended consequence of the campaign of harassment. That's an essential point of law. The reason there are so many different types of crime in law is because each one is different and should be punished differently.

Generally speaking a crime can be broken down into actus reas and the mens rea. The first is the 'guilty act' and the second the 'guilty mind. The specific crime a person may be found guilty of will depend on the level of these two elements.

In the case of a homicide, if there is no significant premeditated mens rea, then you can't be charged with murder. You will instead be found guilty of manslaughter. I'm not a lawyer or even a serious student of the law, so if anyone can correct me I would not take it amiss.

[Caster13]

Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?

That would be one of the best threads ever. It would also be one of the biggest examples of pwnage in AN history.

However it can only happen if you or any other mod don't step in until one of them stops and finish off Walt with the banhammer.

[Trefellin]

I called it "bulling" and you called it "intimidation".

Isn't intimidation the same as bullying except we're cleverly changing the word of the context?


It was a joke. A joke pointing out that the word "haggle" which means "to bargain" is being inappropriately used. It has nothing to do with cyber bullying at all. The humour comes from the way I worded my response to mimic a person haggling, the act who's name was being mistakenly used to describe harassment.

[Mikosage]

@ Walt...

Dude, I remember when I was fairly new and I was ALOT like you. People gave me a real hard time on here.

Specifically this chick named Suki who is now one of my favorite people ever. After an altercation with her I was given an infraction and left emosad to listen to Linkin Park and cut myself...

Then I asked why I cared so much? This is an anime forum. I don't know you people irl (besides gohan and Jia and GOA). What the rest of you do has no effect on my life whatsoever.

So I came back on AN with a new outlook. Loosened up. Attended the Prons school of internet awesome and here I am making kids cry just like the rest of em.

So my advice is to take a chill, sit back, and tell em all to sod off.

As for this bill, I tend to agree with Dess in the fact that it sounds loose now but the final draft will probably be more sound.

[Samurai Drifter]

Free speech isn't being ended; it's being protected from ********.
I don't think you realize how Orwellian that sounds. "We're not taking away your right to free speech, we're protecting it by imprisoning you for saying certain things!"

The spirit of the bill is not bad, I guess. The problem is how absurdly broad and up-to-interpretation it is. If they set guidelines within the bill such as "at least [x] number of messages fitting [y] characteristics" then I wouldn't really have much of a problem with it.

The way it is now, you'll have organizations/people suing SomethingAwful.com for Weekend Web articles, you'll have 15-year-olds calling the police on their friends when they have their first IM-argument, and a countless amount of abuses of the law relating to flame wars.

I don't think the people that wrote this bill really understand the internet, and how many people there are fighting on it constantly.

[Leader Desslock]

That would be one of the best threads ever. It would also be one of the biggest examples of pwnage in AN history.
While I agree it might involve one of the biggest Walls Of Text in AN history, I don't believe it would be that epic otherwise.

Shinji_Ikari, now - THAT was epic pwnage.

I don't think you realize how Orwellian that sounds. "We're not taking away your right to free speech, we're protecting it by imprisoning you for saying certain things!"
Sure it sounds Orson Wellesian if you remove in from the context of the post it was intended to summarize.

To rephrase it, "Your right to free speech ends at the point where it deprives someone else of the same right."

In our society, that's how it works. Individuals have rights, and the laws are there to provide the necessary balance of one individual's rights over another's.

For example: Every individual has the right to life (it's right there in the Declaration), and that right extends up to the point at which an individual tries to kill another individual. At that point the attacker's right to life ends, and his potential victim has the right to do whatever is necessary (including kill his attacker in self defense) to preserve his own right to life.

A person's right to Free Speech ends when it compromises the rights of another individual. This is nothing new; I think you'll find that Libel and Slander go back quite a spell.

Every individual has the right to express himself, sure. But every other individual has the right not to listen to other peoples' expressions. Harassment isn't just "saying something that hurts someone's feelings". Harassment is an attempt to deprive another individual of the right not to listen or to associate with the person expressing himself.

The law has been there to prevent people from harassing others via the USPS for some time (also a felony, I believe), but now it's been extended to its electronic equivalent.

So it is, as I said, free speech being protected from ******** who would deprive others of the right to ignore them. What's wrong with that?

[KabukiSaMuRaI]

You take everything on this site waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, walt.

Who cares if people haggle you? My God..it's just the internet. And this is just a stupid anime site. If I let people get to me every time I got flamed, I'd never go anywhere on the internet...
Ideally, nothing here is supposed to be taken seriously. You've been around long enough where people accept mostly what you say and how you feel about certain issues...except for a recent disagreement with a Mod.
Can we get seats for the Walstoph vs Desslock trial?
Well, I'm sure people were thinking this but it could have gone in another direction.
I lack the required intent, but it would be a funny trial. :lol:
Oh, the terminology and phrasing are done masterfully as usual. Presentation is the key it seems and the status quo remains untouched. Life is grand.
You know guys I was actually gonna butt out on this topic but clearly as one of my favorite the MJ song goes.."You wanna be starting something."
The first stone hath been cast, in this thread at least. You have been taking a lot of it and it's good that you are still around. It is difficult when criticism comes in a form that reads unlike standard criticism. But we do press on, don't we? I would think that things stayed on a formal level as there is no need to make personal comments about you. It is all based upon what you choose to write (unless I missed something).

Besides even if I used the "ignore" button it still doesn't stop others from viewing it. Admit Desslock like the saying goes in the movie A few good man. "You want me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall".lol
I would not go as far as to interpret his intent to such an extreme. Like I mentioned before, it's all about social dynamics. You will notice that there are other members who get criticized and have been here for much longer. Certain members have personal habits that get the brunt of commentary and the like. You seem to be very outspoken and believe in your opinions. There is nothing wrong with that and there will be disagreements. Whether or not they are true disagreements or a game of devil's advocate, one can only guess at this point in time.

Yeah i heard about it but theres no point in me talking about it. Clearly you all have it in your minds I'm this crazy paranoid wacko..that i need therapy. It doesn't matter what I say your just wanting an excuse.

Well let me tell you guys something..I find it very therapeutic to speak my mind on the threads. Even if you don't like what i got to say.
If you were to give up and leave, sadly, you would still bear the brunt of some type of criticism. It is the nature of community and people, whether online or off. But always take the opportunity to learn new things and different perspectives. It may conflict with what you personally believe in or feel but you cannot go through life without coming across other external forces.

Actually, you are quite open and agreeable to other comments and criticism. I have not yet decided if that is a good thing or a bad thing. But it is done with much excess in my humble opinion.

Therapy? Wacko? I would hope that these things have not come up in a public conversation about you.

Using the ignore button is one way but not the best way to go about things. People will quote and you will eventually see what was written anyway. You seem incensed and I can understand so as, I'm sure what others see as fun you see as something else. I had come across an issue where I was told to stop making comments one time, even though I was not the one really making them. I happened to be posting in a thread and made references to other comments made. The issue was dealt with accordingly. Dude, things are skewed and it is a fact that we must all accept. Like all communities, perfect is not anywhere in sight.


Just because you don't like what i have to say doesn't mean i need to go to a freaking doctor. As a saying goes its better to get it off your chest then keep inside you.

Again, I do not see where this is coming from. Not anyone here can be considered normal (and what is 'normal' to some may be uncommon for others). However, there are those that fit in nicely here and get along with each other and that is the key to the community. I certainly do not agree with all you have to say but I have no intention of signing off on your admission slip to the psychology ward.

Speaking your mind is therapeutic and if that's what you like do here, then you should not stop. Keep in mind that members like Desslock are used to having debates where points-of-view are backed up with some type of empirical, researched, well-thought out arguments and data. That's not a crime in the least (although I am not condoning any type of perceived wrong doing). And you have those who follow suit for whatever reason. Then there are others who just blurt out unfounded comments or things that do not seem to make sense. Social dynamics my friend.

Take a deep breath maybe unplug and unwind for a bit. We are not going anywhere.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Walter you need to be more manly now that you have THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR as your avatar.

[SapperSix]

Walter you need to be more manly now that you have THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR as your avatar.

He could start by shooting a weapon of a high caliber.

[KabukiSaMuRaI]

Walter you need to be more manly now that you have THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR as your avatar.

It looks as if Waltso set the bar very high for himself. I still dig the avatar though. I am guessing next one will pay homage to UFC.

[Caster13]

Desslock should counter with a Muhammed Ali avatar.

[ThePhillyFlash]

Sorry but if some b*tch pretended to be someone else just to get back at my daughter who killed herself I'd be grabbing one of animeotaku's guns and killing her myself. It might be online, but harassment is harassment.

I agree wholeheartedly. Free speech is important, but it shouldn't be abused like it was in the case above or become something to hide behind so heartless cretins can harass people. Common sense has to taken into account and rules put in place so people are protected.

[Arnold]

I agree wholeheartedly. Free speech is important, but it shouldn't be abused like it was in the case above or become something to hide behind so heartless cretins can harass people. Common sense has to taken into account and rules put in place so people are protected.

Exactly. Your right to free speech ends right at my nose. If it gets to the point of harassment, you're depriving other people of their rights.

[CrossboneGundam]

I'm a victim of cyber bullying on here and you guys know it. I've been a victim of it on other sites too. Wish i could tell them to just shut up. But that would break the rules.

The only way this could be more ironic would be if you were to post a thread about how you heard on Glenn Beck that cyber-bullying is a myth and the victims are just pussies.

[goddessofanime]

@ Walt...

Dude, I remember when I was fairly new and I was ALOT like you. People gave me a real hard time on here.

Specifically this chick named Suki who is now one of my favorite people ever. After an altercation with her I was given an infraction and left emosad to listen to Linkin Park and cut myself...

Then I asked why I cared so much? This is an anime forum. I don't know you people irl (besides gohan and Jia and GOA). What the rest of you do has no effect on my life whatsoever.

So I came back on AN with a new outlook. Loosened up. Attended the Prons school of internet awesome and here I am making kids cry just like the rest of em.

So my advice is to take a chill, sit back, and tell em all to sod off.

As for this bill, I tend to agree with Dess in the fact that it sounds loose now but the final draft will probably be more sound.



You weren't paranoid like he is. All you did is talk about how much you dug mikos..and wanting to get into my pants but we'll leave that out :P

Ideally, nothing here is supposed to be taken seriously. You've been around long enough where people accept mostly what you say and how you feel about certain issues...except for a recent disagreement with a Mod.

That's true, I guess. I like to think most of us have common sense and even if someone disses us or disagrees with us, it's not the end of the world.

And yes, I used 'haggle' wrong. So sue me.

[Ikari Warrior]

The story behind this girl's suicide is one of the saddest things I'd ever read. It saddens me deeply that the Internet has evolved into such a potential weapon for personal harm. The woman who pushed the girl to her death should have been charged with some manner of murder. If this bill had signed into law BEFORE this girl's death, and of course the situation still occurred, the worst that woman would have gotten is two years, which is still not enough, IMO.

Conversely, I believe this bill would not be necessary if parents simply PARENTED! The story of the girl's suicide is sad on multiple levels, one of them being that her parents didn't just ban her from the Internet. How did they not see what this was doing to their daughter? Whatever the case, her parents are to blame for her death, too.

That being said, this bill would likely come about from some other way. If not myspace, then e-mail, per Desslock's "mail" example, or even waltsoph's grossly exaggerated forum abuse. So I suppose this bill is inevitable. I tend to forget how "new" the Internet is until I see something like this. In essence, it's law catching up with technology.

In regard to walt v. desslock, I have one question:
Who is crazy enough to prosecute Desslock on waltsoph's behalf? I'm not even going to ask who would defend Dess, because I would assume he'd simply represent himself, and if he DIDN'T, that would raise a second question:
Who would be crazy enough to prosecute Desslock if he has a personally picked defender? I mean, think about it, Desslock is so good at arguing, he'd only have to pick someone BETTER than himself to represent him as a defense attorney.

When you get down to it, the only answer to both would be CTLesq. Thankfully, he's not around anymore.

[Leader Desslock]

I'm not even going to ask who would defend Dess, because I would assume he'd simply represent himself...
I would. I've always wanted a fool for a client. *nods*

Who would be crazy enough to prosecute Desslock if he has a personally picked defender?...When you get down to it, the only answer to both would be CTLesq.
It would be entirely consistent with his M.O. to act as the legal counsel for both sides in a trial. A mistrial would be declared after he managed to get the jury, the audience and the courtroom staff so whipped up on both side of the argument that they started throwing chairs at one another. After that, he'd stroll out of the courtroom saying, "My job here is done." :lol:

[Caster13]

You weren't paranoid like he is. All you did is talk about how much you dug mikos..and wanting to get into my pants but we'll leave that out :P

:lol: I loved the miko fanboyism. I never saw anything about him wanting to get in GOA's pants though.

However, you were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY better than how I was when I first came here.:| I prefer to forget that.

[goddessofanime]

:lol: I loved the miko fanboyism. I never saw anything about him wanting to get in GOA's pants though.

However, you were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY better than how I was when I first came here.:| I prefer to forget that.


Oh wait...the pants things is private...:P

[Leader Desslock]

^ Not to infringe upon your freedom of speech or anything, but perhaps that sort of thing should stay private.

[goddessofanime]

^ Not to infringe upon your freedom of speech or anything, but perhaps that sort of thing should stay private.

Nothing really happened though. I was just kidding...:)

[DavenIII]

You weren't paranoid like he is. All you did is talk about how much you dug mikos..and wanting to get into my pants but we'll leave that out :P

I'm pretty sure he isn't the only one j/p j/p :P

[waltsoph3]

Walter you need to be more manly now that you have THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR as your avatar.

The avatar is just for fun. lol :) The ultimate warrior was a great wrestler. :D

Desslock should counter with a Muhammed Ali avatar.

Uh...no.

Ultimate Warrior would go ULTIMATE on Ali. "Float like a butterfly and sting like.." BAM! Close line! Then BAM another close line and then one more! Then the UW would shake the ropes to FEEL the crowds energy and then finish Ali with the Guerrilla press body slam and SQUASH him with the body splash! 1..2..3! Hes done! :lol:

Don't get me wrong I think Ali is an amazing boxer and I like the guy, but if you never seen the UW perform you defently have no idea how pumped up he gets in the ring. lol
( yes i do know wrestling is staged)

You guys are right..:(

Its sometimes forget this is soposs to be a place to just relax. I apologize but know i'm defently not a paranoid person. Theres just sometimes i care deeply for certain issues thats all. Sorry again everyone.

[Jia]

Ok I am raging right now.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1966/text

This bill makes it a FELONY if you hurt someones feelings on the INTERENT, CELLPHONE, radio and TV.

also you can be retried (double Jeopardy)if if the feds don't think your sentence was harsh enough

current status: referred to committee

Doesn't surprise me. It's considered defamation.

[Leader Desslock]

So... maybe I missed it, since I only skimmed the bill long enough to realize this was another paranoid rant, but...

Where's the part of the bill that mentions being "retried (double jeopardy) if the feds don't think your sentence was harsh enough"? There seems to be a limit of two years hard-coded into the bill. Presumably one can be tried for a separate violation the law, but I don't see anything for trying someone twice for the same violation.

What'd I miss?

[old hat]

but making some little punk cry on the internet should not lead to a felony conviction, it shouldn't lead to anything at all.

watch this: HEY OLD HAT, you're a little punk and I banged your mom! There i just committed a felony

No, you're just being childish.

[Stelok]

maybe freedom of thought is a better idea than freedom of speech.

Freedom of expression
Freedom of worship
Freedom of assembly
Freedom of press

[Mikosage]

You weren't paranoid like he is. All you did is talk about how much you dug mikos..and wanting to get into my pants but we'll leave that out :P

I still think theys kewl but I prefer a more...erm...hazardous type of woman nowadays. Anyone know any female ninja or pirates? A miko just couldn't handle my level of awesometude. I'd have her going gray and crying in her sake by day three.

Oh and...I'll get your cake someday.


And yes, I used 'haggle' wrong. So sue me.

The paperwork is being processed as we speak. The real victim here today was the English language, people. *shakes head*

[Jabberwock]

I disagree with this new bill thingamajig.

I don't have any good reasons right now.

HOWEVER, my kneejerk reaction had something to do with "internet as an electronic facsimile of the world", "flying cars", and "creating a way to punch people in the face through computers".

I do believe that policing the internet should be done on the internet and nowhere else. Allowing anything that happens on the internet to affect anything beyond the internet gives credence to the notion that the internet is a crucial entity in our culture.

On an unrelated topic, the inundation of laws such as this makes the citizenry socially irresponsible and lazy.

[Leader Desslock]

^ So by extension, you feel it should also be legal to harass someone (not just be mean to, but to actually harass) via phone and email, since those media should also police themselves?

I totally agree with the whole "internet isn't a crucial entity in our culture" stance, but I'm curious how you're making the distinction between one communications medium and another. It's just as possible to get by without the postal service or a phone. Lots of people do just that.

Also - has anyone found where the OP was getting the whole "double jeopardy" thing? I still haven't found that.

[Old Ape Face]

^^the world is a lot less headache off the computer.

In Real Life, 7% of what you experience in a face to face conversation is actual words, 60% of it is body language, and 33% of it is tone of voice.

On the phone 13% of what you experience is words, and the rest is tone of voice.

On the internet there is only one variable to experience in communication.

But not just the internet, Texting via phone or some other text communication device is also 100% word choice.

I think the internet is making people more vulnerable in the Real World, while you're more confident to say what you want to people on the internet. In the Real World you're cornered with physical contact.

[CrossboneGundam]

Also - has anyone found where the OP was getting the whole "double jeopardy" thing? I still haven't found that.

He probably got it from Glenn Beck.

[master terrence]

I was watching this youtube video of a girl. She's kind of popular with males between the age of 18-35 for her non youtube videos. I was reading some of the comments, there was definitely a user that was creepy, he liked to play the fatherly figure, but was even taking it to the next level. I don't think he came of creepy to her, he actually came of genuinely concerned for her, but from what I've studied on rape.... I'm saying that he's a rapist, but who knows. She deleted the comments and ignore listed him, but I have to say he was harassing her even though the evidence is gone now. I wouldn't post it here even if she didn't delete the comments though. Not because they were vulgar and used profanity (they weren't), but because he had those characters of someone who likes to feel in control of others, even sexually. He had a real big ego and a love of hypodescent which really disgusted me.

I think he's someone that should meet with the legislation.

[waltsoph3]

He probably got it from Glenn Beck.

As a loyal Beck watcher I belive I can confirm that. It was on Beck that they we're talking about that but I don't think it had anything to do with this story.

Thats all i can recall. :/

[Tidusauron12]

^^the world is a lot less headache off the computer.

In Real Life, 7% of what you experience in a face to face conversation is actual words, 60% of it is body language, and 33% of it is tone of voice.

On the phone 13% of what you experience is words, and the rest is tone of voice.

On the internet there is only one variable to experience in communication.

But not just the internet, Texting via phone or some other text communication device is also 100% word choice.

I think the internet is making people more vulnerable in the Real World, while you're more confident to say what you want to people on the internet. In the Real World you're cornered with physical contact.

Now this is what I call "pulling numbers out of your ***." :lol:

[Old Ape Face]

Now this is what I call "pulling numbers out of your ***." :lol:

or out of my job Orientation for the past 3 days which strongly went over things like positive communication skills and stuff.

The numbers might be slightly off but that's the kind of information I was given.

Words used are the last things you interpret in mood.

[Haro!]

or out of my job Orientation for the past 3 days which strongly went over things like positive communication skills and stuff.

The numbers might be slightly off but that's the kind of information I was given.

Words used are the last things you interpret in mood.

Oh. So, someone else pulled numbers out of their ***. That's all you had to say.

[Jabberwock]

^^the world is a lot less headache off the computer.

In Real Life, 7% of what you experience in a face to face conversation is actual words, 60% of it is body language, and 33% of it is tone of voice.

On the phone 13% of what you experience is words, and the rest is tone of voice.

On the internet there is only one variable to experience in communication.

But not just the internet, Texting via phone or some other text communication device is also 100% word choice.

I think the internet is making people more vulnerable in the Real World, while you're more confident to say what you want to people on the internet. In the Real World you're cornered with physical contact.

The real world is much less of a headache. Your explanation is wanting, however. How is people being more confident more of a headache?

I know what you're trying to say, but "confident" is not the word you're looking to use. If people, as you say, are universally more confident to say what they want on the internet, it would be safe to assume that those same people would also be more confident to deal with issues involving harassment.

The internet doesn't make people more vulnerable in the real world, but rather the other way around. Constant immersion in the real world makes people vulnerable on the internet. The "real world" gives you a multitude of answers for a given choice; the internet allows very little in comparison.

^ So by extension, you feel it should also be legal to harass someone (not just be mean to, but to actually harass) via phone and email, since those media should also police themselves?

I totally agree with the whole "internet isn't a crucial entity in our culture" stance, but I'm curious how you're making the distinction between one communications medium and another. It's just as possible to get by without the postal service or a phone. Lots of people do just that.

Also - has anyone found where the OP was getting the whole "double jeopardy" thing? I still haven't found that.

Haha, I looked and couldn't find the double jeopardy business anywhere. Maybe it was a figment of his imagination?

Harassment is an interesting crime, though. Despite the obvious recognition of who is the perpetrator and who is the victim, the crime requires some sort of acquiescence from the victim that the actions of the perp are, indeed, harassment. Unlike felonies and misdemeanors such as theft, rape, assault, vandalism, etc., without the expressed consent from the victim that these actions constitute harassment, they will not be considered criminal. Strangely enough, this very recognition does not deter the most egregious perpetrators of harassment; in fact, it will most likely encourage them. In this way, the victim has a very important role to actually assist the offender.

What also makes harassment unique from many other crimes is that it requires repetition to be considered criminal. This is where I have issue. Harassment entails that you have ongoing interaction with your victim. At every junction toward the verification of harassment, the victim has a choice to modify the behaviour of his or her assailant. Every time the offender accesses his victim, the harassed chooses to remain a victim instead of modifying the offender's behaviour.

How many trolls are burned b/c someone smarter, quicker, and totally not an asshat gets the better of them? Of course, counter to that, how many times have trolls escalated their behaviour because they feel wounded of some sort? Either way, modifying an attacker's behaviour to either escalate the matter or finally give up makes the prospect of litigation much easier. Remember that the same impotency a victim feels due to the limitations of the chosen media is felt by the harasser if his attacks are ineffective.

As such, my personal thoughts on harassment, whether in person or through media like phone, internet, radio, or television, are simply that harassment is a matter of personal responsibility for one's own social vulnerability. It is entrenched in the murky middle ground between the unlawful and annoyingly unaware that make legal action more of a burdensome money sink than a promising answer.

Having access to the internet is the equivalent of arming everyone inside of it with a knife--if you don't know how to use it as well others who are more experienced, you run the risk of being hurt. If you wish to partake in higher functions of social interactivity, you'd best be prepared.

As previously said by Yukimura, the internet is full of more headaches than its physical counterpart. The internet is NOT the Eequivalent of the UN; if anything, it ranges from simple schoolyard playground to asylum for sociopaths. Nowhere within that range do you expect kindness and fair play outright. The same should be said about the internet.