The possibility of secession!?

[waltsoph3]

Before any of you think my topic has a typo its spelt correctly. I'm talking about secession.

Just a few days ago after the Tea parties happen i get news that....lets just say hit a little bit more close to home. I had friends come over talking me about our gov. talking about secession.
Now at first i thought they were slanging something but then it quickly donned on me.

If you don't know what secession means heres a definition:

Secession (derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity. It is not to be confused with succession, the act of following in order or sequence.

Basicly it meens when it comes to states in america its in a ways like what might happen between boyfriend/girfriend relationship. Breaking up.

This disturbs me quite a bit. Its not fiction or one of those kid puzzels growing up where you put the states together or apart. Im not trying be mr skiy is falling here ok. This isn't my idea this is whats others are seriously considering.

Even if some of you say..oh lol walt theres no way its gonna happen..just the fact that people are talking about doing this..that enough is something to think about.

Now i don't know if the good gov. was just joking when he made that comment.

Some in the tea party thread said oh yeah lets do it! Break up the states. Big deal.


To anyone considering the possability of seperating any kind of states as a good thing i hate to do this..its a huge facepalm for all of you that would think that.(unless you were just joking on the ideas )

This is whole thing is acting before thinking.

I saw a quick glimps from Jay leno last night when talking mess(oh wait im sorry a joke) about the Texas Governer's remarks. Baisicly he said..well if you do that we'll just invade you.And people laughed and clapped.

This to me is not what people in the past made posssable for all of us. To any people living in states considering this. The moment we sperate from the US you gotta ask these questions..

What happens to those people rights?(we no longer be in any protection of the constiution or any US laws)
What will the laws be?
How much tax could you actually start paying? More or less?
What about security?
What about your tv shows, video games and just other normal activities you normaly do. Could they change?

The list goes on and please feel free to add to that bag of listed questions.

So yeah i know i may get grilled for this by some of you (ahem well i'm not gonna mention names but you know who you )
Yet i'm truly intrested in hearing everyone on this.

I meen thats what the US is soposs to represent..being able to express yourself freely. I may dissagree sometimes with certain goverment and law issues but never do i want this.

Personaly i don't want this to happen but if it does your looking at a new page of history in the making and in a ways its not a postive one at all. :(

So what do you guys gotta say about this situation? Please focus on the topic and not on me ok. Because i dont ever want this to happen. thank you for your time.

[Lacan]

Take a look at this. Warning mature language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_NY-N0hUc

[Bernard_Monsha]

1. Stop listening to Glen Beck.

2. The easiest way around this is to repeal the 17th amendment.

3. Refer to # 1.

[tenshi_a]

Before any of you think my topic has a typo its spelt correctly.

You have spelled "possibility" wrong.

So what do you guys gotta say about this situation? Please focus on the topic and not on me ok.

Oops. But I don't have any opinion about US politics...

[Gray]

Waltsoph, I have a serious question for you that i'd like you to seriously answer. Do you take everything that anyone says to you as immediate truth? That IS how I 'feel about this situation'

[The Million Dollar Prons]

1. Stop listening to Glen Beck.


The fact we have two people (Animeotaku99 and Walter) on this forum that listens to Glenn Beck disqusts me. Am I the only one who didn't fap to him selling the images of the September 11th attack to get people to join his "9-12" project.


On topic, shut up.

[Gibb]

In related news, Chuck Norris has said he will run Texas during and after the revolution. :P

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0749916/

[waltsoph3]

FYI i didn't hear this on glenn beck untill a day after perry said it. I heard this from my friends and on the local news heck even AN first. Just clearing that up.

Waltsoph, I have a serious question for you that i'd like you to seriously answer. Do you take everything that anyone says to you as immediate truth? That IS how I 'feel about this situation'


Thanks for the question and ill be more then happy to answer it.

I think before i answer something you know. It is called making up your own mind on a story.

Please keep in mind regarding this story i was just talking about what i heard. All i'm doing is expressing my opinion on it. Opinions are not saying that my words are right but there also not saying there wrong.

Thats why you make up your own mind on a topic. Wiether you agree with it or not.

But i don't take every story as truth and its gonna happen. Its just intresting at times just see what others think of it.

Anyways i hope that helps you out. :)

The fact we have two people (Animeotaku99 and Walter) on this forum that listens to Glenn Beck disqusts me. Am I the only one who didn't fap to him selling the images of the September 11th attack to get people to join his "9-12" project.


On topic, shut up.

come on prons man you can do better then that. Wheres some of your humor i always enjoy reading.

But hey you wanna tell those people to shut up ok I'm with ya.

(on a side note regarding glenns 9/12 project. Hes not selling anything from it guys. The whole point of his project was to show how everyone united as one the day after the unfortunate attack. Instead of fear people stood up and came together. Talking to neighbors and friends.

Glenn isn't selling anything from this. Hes not doing it for any profit gain. Its just an idea. An idea that in ways is very very a important one. How you can imporve yourself. And how you come to treasure and truly appricate what you have..freedom and life. Thats whats it meens. )

[Lacan]

In related news, Chuck Norris has said he will run Texas during and after the revolution. :P

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0749916/


This should be in the awesome thread.

[Bernard_Monsha]

In related news, Chuck Norris has said he will run Texas during and after the revolution. :P

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0749916/

Chuck Norris/Kinky Freidman 2012!

[The Million Dollar Prons]

come on prons man you can do better then that. Wheres some of your humor i always enjoy reading.


***** this ain't rock and roll, this is GENOCIDE.



(on a side note regarding glenns 9/12 project. Hes not selling anything from it guys. The whole point of his project was to show how everyone united as one the day after the unfortunate attack. Instead of fear people stood up and came together. Talking to neighbors and friends.

Glenn isn't selling anything from this. Hes not doing it for any profit gain. Its just an idea. An idea that in ways is very very a important one. How you can imporve yourself. And how you come to treasure and truly appricate what you have..freedom and life. Thats whats it meens. )

Except the fact he gets paid more than anyone on this forum combined by pulling on people's heart strings with images of the September 11th terrorist attack.

[waltsoph3]

***** this ain't rock and roll, this is GENOCIDE.





Except the fact he gets paid more than anyone on this forum combined by pulling on people's heart strings with images of the September 11th terrorist attack.

Lol thats more like it ! Thank prons. :D


And hey your intitled to your opinion man and i won't hold it against ya.

[Holy Knight]

I live in Quebec. Considering half of Quebec has wanted to separate since the 1960's, and that they have had valid reason (according to sovereignists, at least) to do so since the 1700's, my guess is this "secession" will never happen, and I'll dismiss such hearsay until anything concrete comes up.

[goddessofanime]

Dear waltsoph...


I love you man....never change your paranoid ways. :D :lol:

[Trefellin]

***** this ain't rock and roll, this is GENOCIDE.


Or, it can be wartime rock'n'roll for genocide! Oh yeah mother****er! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4--JjSRIrs)

[RecentMidget]

here's something i found that is perfect for this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[grgspunk]

Meh. Let Texas try and secede. I'd love to see how they manage to keep their oil fields and other high-value assets when the White House sends in the special forces. :rolleyes:

[old hat]

Why am I not surprised that the first two names in this topic are waltsoph3 and Lacan?

Critical thinking is a useful skill. A working baloney detection kit is also handy.
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/W/Jonathan.D.Wren-1/The%20Fine%20Art%20of%20Baloney%20Detect ion.htm

[Trefellin]

Meh. Let Texas try and secede. I'd love to see how they manage to keep their oil fields and other high-value assets when the White House sends in the special forces. :rolleyes:

How many of those guys might be from Texas though? And I'd bet that a Texan mule deer hunter would make a pretty good sniper on his own turf.

[Leader Desslock]

You know what's funny? I saw this thread title from the main board (without the thread author) and I thought, "Only one member would ever take that seriously enough to make a thread about it."

And I was right.

Walt... as a Physics instructor of mine used to tell me, "Use your head, boy!"

Before any of you think my topic has a typo its spelt correctly. I'm talking about secession.
We know what secession is. Maine always wanted Quebec to secede from Canada, which would leave us free to leave the US (possibly with New Hampshire) to form a new republic with the newly detached maritime provinces.

If that ever happened, I'd move back to Maine, turn in my US citizenship and never look back. Those would be interesting times.

I saw a quick glimps from Jay leno last night when talking mess(oh wait im sorry a joke) about the Texas Governer's remarks. Baisicly he said..well if you do that we'll just invade you.And people laughed and clapped.
As they should, because it was a comedy routine, not a news broadcast. There's a difference between the two, and you really either need to learn how to tell the difference or lurk moar.

What about your tv shows, video games and just other normal activities you normaly do. Could they change?
You're talking about the hypothetical balkanization of the US, and you actually think those things would matter at all?

I swear, if you'd have been at Pearl Harbor, you'd have stayed inside to watch Glen Beck reruns, while remaining oblivious to the significant events of history going on around you. Oh - and the bombs.

So what do you guys gotta say about this situation? Please focus on the topic and not on me ok. Because i dont ever want this to happen. thank you for your time.
I think it's one person's comments being taken out of context and used to rile up the ignorant masses. That's what I think.

[Lacan]

Texas is actually doing America a favor, let them break away from us. And we can all watch and see if Texas becomes a 3rd world nation and turns into a Pakistan like country. And I'll stay here in real America as we progress towards the future.

It also means no more patent trolls with false patent lawsuit claims that are done in the same Texas court.

[animeotaku99]

What is wrong with a state breaking away from a tyrannical federal government? Obama and Congress are stomping all over the Bill of Rights, especially the 2nd and 10th Amendments.
Congress is suppose to mediate interstate commerce and stay the hell out of state business and law making. The federal government is way out of control and it needs to be brought back to what it once was. Run by the People! For the People!
And Obama will probably end up giving Texas or New Mexico to the Mexican Government anyways.

[Trefellin]

Texas is actually doing America a favor, let them break away from us. And we can all watch and see if Texas becomes a 3rd world nation and turns into a Pakistan like country. And I'll stay here in real America as we progress towards the future.


No, I don't think that would happen. They have oilfields and a great wealth of other natural resources. There is no way it would become a third world country. It would take a Mexican level of government corruption and a complete trade embargo imposed by the U.S. to turn Texas in a third world country.

Texas would have great difficulty seceding though. It would probably be impossible unless Texas decides to do it while America is bogged down in a world war.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Texas is actually doing America a favor, let them break away from us. And we can all watch and see if Texas becomes a 3rd world nation and turns into a Pakistan like country. And I'll stay here in real America as we progress towards the future.

I am so glad to find out you don't live in Texas. Te Deum Laudemus!

[Old Ape Face]

What is wrong with a state breaking away from a tyrannical federal government? Obama and Congress are stomping all over the Bill of Rights, especially the 2nd and 10th Amendments.
Congress is suppose to mediate interstate commerce and stay the hell out of state business and law making. The federal government is way out of control and it needs to be brought back to what it once was. Run by the People! For the People!
And Obama will probably end up giving Texas or New Mexico to the Mexican Government anyways.

Texas a state? last time I check the United States map the only thing I was worried about was Obama's home town. Everything else can be sold off to Al Quada for all he cares.

[flatfour]

Perry screwed up by letting an inside joke that Texans have out on to a national medium. But I think his comments on the 10th amendment were dead on and the quote from Sam Houston was epic. lol.

[Shiroiyuki]

Lord that thread title was annoying. Fixed.

[goddessofanime]

Dear Lacan and animeotaku....



I love you guys too and your uber extreme ways...never change...:lol:

[animeotaku99]

There is nothing extreme about the Constitution and it's ways. Congress and the Obama (and former Bush) Administration are the extreme ones.
The federal government needs to told harshly that tey have overstepped their boundary and that socialism is not the American way

[goddessofanime]

All this talk about secession makes me want to sit on the veranda, drink some mint juleps and talk about how much that rascal Jefferson Davis is ruining the country...



*go look up Civil War History

[Lemina]

Thats funny, when I heard Gov. Rick Perry toyed with the idea of Texas seceeding from the union when he spoke in Austin's Tea Party. It startled me. Do I think that's outragous? Yes it is. Do I think it will happen. Absolutely not. I just thought I would point that out. I'm sure many people in the US don't like Texas. If you ask me, I'm a proud Texan. At least our economy in San Antonio is doing great defying the rest of the US right now.

[goddessofanime]

Just for the record...I have nothing against Texas.

Seriously, this is the first I've heard of it.

[animeotaku99]

All this talk about secession makes me want to sit on the veranda, drink some mint juleps and talk about how much that rascal Jefferson Davis is ruining the country...



*go look up Civil War History

Well the first civil war also started with federalist stepping all over state power and rights as well as taxes. Slavery was only an issue because many states did not think that the federal government had the righ to tell the states you can not own a person

[Suiko Eiji]

Is this news? Really? I mean, secession was attempted once (and seriously considered once before that) and it didn't really work. Other States have had lobbies within them to attempt to secede, some you'd expect, like Tennessee, and others like you wouldn't, like Vermont.

If peaceful secession were granted, I don't think we'd at all end up like Yugoslavia but more in time would go back to how it was in the earlier times of the country where there was no national 'American' identity, but rather, people identified themselves a Georgian, Ohioan, Louisianan, New Yorker, Pennsylvanian, etc. At best, we could see ourselves much like the European Economic Community where States would band together in the interests of economic trade but retain their sovereignty. At least with the current generation, should a peaceful secession be granted, I just don't see parallels with Yugoslavia (or,"Balkanization").

And, you know, I'd rather not have Georgia try to secede from the Union again but I sure as hell wish Atlanta would secede from the rest of the State.

What happens to those people rights?(we no longer be in any protection of the constiution or any US laws)
What will the laws be?
How much tax could you actually start paying? More or less?
What about security?
What about your tv shows, video games and just other normal activities you normaly do. Could they change?

Well, let's say that my Governor told the US to shove it, hypothetically speaking ...

My rights would be protected under the Constitution of the State of Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_Georgia_(U.S._state)_ Constitution), such as my rights to life, liberty and property. I've got rights to due process, free press and speech, self-defense. Wow, sounds like rights under the Federal Constitution - and there's more! I have twenty-eight individual rights enumerated with the last one essentially being identical to the Federal tenth amendment.

Well, I'd probably pay nearly identical to what I pay in Federal and State taxes, only that envelope would go only to Atlanta rather than the 80/20 split between Washington, DC and Atlanta.

Security? GSDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_State_Defense_Force) would probably become more militarized in practice because they would have to take up the primary combat role now played by the Armed Forces of the United States.

Other activities change? I doubt it. This is the global village, remember? I'll still have the Internet so I'll be able to get access to American and native entertainment. My Georgia driver's license will be a cool foreign plate on the roads in the US. Unless we enter some weird Schengen Agreement, I'd have to surrender my US passport for a Georgian one and use that to travel within the US to visit family, just as I do now when I go to Canada. So, nope, nothing much will really change, outside of the balkanization/denial of secession sparking a war. So, we should all join together in Brotherhood and Unity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia ).

All this talk about secession makes me want to sit on the veranda, drink some mint juleps and talk about how much that rascal Jefferson Davis is ruining the country...

:lol: Why, I do declare!

Well the first civil war also started with federalist stepping all over state power and rights as well as taxes. Slavery was only an issue because many states did not think that the federal government had the righ to tell the states you can not own a person

Listen, I know, you live in North Dakota. The War of Northern Aggression was the BEST thing that happened here. Sherman's March to the Sea was brilliant because it torched plantations; without any farms to work, who needs "field hands"? And, ironically, Unionist/Federalist military occupation with puppet Republican legislatures thinking in a mildly rational manner. Then they screwed up and let Nate Forrest and his raiders return power to Democrats for nearly a solid century. I personally think the best economic and social growth the South (particularly my region, the ATL) has had was when the Unionists/, carpetbaggers and scallywags moved in and made this joint civilised.

Trust me, I'm no fan of the Feds but I'll give them credit where credit is due.

[Victory]

Go to a Quebec board and post "so how's abouts them sovereignties?" 200 pages guaranteed!!

Serious reply: secession ("souveraineté") is a risk-vs-reward type of deal
However for many people it is also an emotional/historical issue -- they don't want to feel as though they are ruled by other people who might have not have their best interests at heart. I don't really buy into that.

This is whole thing is acting before thinking.How ironic. How about thinking before posting.

[Caster13]

If patriotic skinheads, militia and New World Order people start blowing **** up, I'm gonna get a gun and a carry on permit.

Slavery was only an issue because many states did not think that the federal government had the righ to tell the states you can not own a person

And there is the lack of logic that people who believe in slavery have.

[Suiko Eiji]

If patriotic skinheads, militia and New World Order people start blowing **** up, I'm gonna get a gun and a carry on permit.

Simple question; Why wait?

... just go have a snickers

[Caster13]

^Good one.:thumbsup:

[Holy Knight]

Go to a Quebec board and post "so how's abouts them sovereignties?" 200 pages guaranteed!!

I do this on occasion when I'm in the mood for some trolling. They get angry so easily over trivial comments, and rational, concise arguments supporting "les maudis anglais" is met with warnings of a temp. ban. :lol:

I once made a thread with the idea that if we were all smart enough that learning a language isn't a problem, the French/English dispute would become a triviality. A 40 page flame war erupted, and I barely needed to post in it after my OP. :lol:

[Caster13]

I once made a thread with the idea that if we were all smart enough that learning a language isn't a problem

Don't get me started on that. And let's not go there, otherwise this thread will be locked in a heartbeat.

[waltsoph3]

Thats funny, when I heard Gov. Rick Perry toyed with the idea of Texas seceeding from the union when he spoke in Austin's Tea Party. It startled me. Do I think that's outragous? Yes it is. Do I think it will happen. Absolutely not. I just thought I would point that out. I'm sure many people in the US don't like Texas. If you ask me, I'm a proud Texan. At least our economy in San Antonio is doing great defying the rest of the US right now.

Yeah Lemina you and I defently know what Texas is all about. Its a great place. :D

The one thing that pains me at times is the jokes and puns aimed at our state.
Some jokes expressing that were either red necks, hicks, the cowboy yehaw and all that other stuff that sopposdly symbolizes what all texans look like. Texas is defently more then that and it provides much more then just what people only see from the outside apperence..yet they never take the chance to gaze the true beauty from the inside.

Might i sincerly add something even if it doesn't meen much to some of you. ADV films is located in Texas. Just wanted to be sincere about pointing that out.


Also have you heard the saying.."Rember the Alamo!" I know it may sound boring guys but look up some history involving Texas sometime. You might be very surprised.

Some people on here tell me to use critical thinking. Well i DO critical think. Just not the way some want me to visualize it. We each have our own personilty and style.

So to me when i do talk about a serious thread. Thats all.
I just express whats on my mind. Its not facts or etched in stone.

About this topic..i want you guys to just...imagine it. Even if theres no chance in heck it will happen. Like an artist or storymaker try to visualize it. What would it look like to you?

Keep in mind the whole point of what it is..its like a new clean slate however it meens new rules and laws can easily be written..some perhapes even unconstitutional under the laws were governed with everyday.

When it comes to this I'm defently no fortune teller and only the future can be written by the people. Another thing guys my thread wasn't targeted primarly at texas because theres many other states talking about this. Mostly whats really sparking this is from the recent crazy things going on in congress. I just find the whole thing crazy.

I try not to take this too serious but again my stance on this is i don't want this to happen if anyone is considering it for a second. I like america just the way it is.
Thats all i can wish for.

[goddessofanime]

Yeah Lemina you and I defently know what Texas is all about. Its a great place. :D

The one thing that pains me at times is the jokes and puns aimed at our state.
Some jokes expressing that were either red necks, hicks, the cowboy yehaw and all that other stuff that sopposdly symbolizes what all texans look like. Texas is defently more then that and it provides much more then just what people only see from the outside apperence..yet they never take the chance to gaze the true beauty from the inside.

Might i sincerly add something even if it doesn't meen much to some of you. ADV films is located in Texas. Just wanted to be sincere about pointing that out.


Also have you heard the saying.."Rember the Alamo!" I know it may sound boring guys but look up some history involving Texas sometime. You might be very surprised.

Some people on here tell me to use critical thinking. Well i DO critical think. Just not the way some want me to visualize it. We each have our own personilty and style.

So to me when i do talk about a serious thread. Thats all.
I just express whats on my mind. Its not facts or etched in stone.

About this topic..i want you guys to just...imagine it. Even if theres no chance in heck it will happen. Like an artist or storymaker try to visualize it. What would it look like to you?

Keep in mind the whole point of what it is..its like a new clean slate however it meens new rules and laws can easily be written..some perhapes even unconstitutional under the laws were governed with everyday.

When it comes to this I'm defently no fortune teller and only the future can be written by the people. Another thing guys my thread wasn't targeted primarly at texas because theres many other states talking about this. Mostly whats really sparking this is from the recent crazy things going on in congress. I just find the whole thing crazy.

I try not to take this too serious but again my stance on this is i don't want this to happen if anyone is considering it for a second. I like america just the way it is.
Thats all i can wish for.

First of all...ADV is pretty much done.

Secondly....why are you even bringing this up in the first place if you're not taking it seriously? I doubt if anyone will be successful in seceding from America.

Lastly, FIDDLE DEE DEE...

[Leader Desslock]

Also have you heard the saying.."Rember the Alamo!" I know it may sound boring guys but look up some history involving Texas sometime. You might be very surprised.
THE ALAMO IS IN TEXAS?!?! MY GOD, AM I SURPRISED!

Come on, dude. We've heard of the Alamo. That's the place that wouldn't rent a car to Mexican general Quetzocoatl without a reservation, so he invaded it and took the keys with a Bowie knife, or somesuch. I saw it on a Lifetime movie.

Some people on here tell me to use critical thinking. Well i DO critical think. Just not the way some want me to visualize it. We each have our own personilty and style... Its not facts or etched in stone.
Critical thinking is based on logic, supported by facts. Logic is not subjective, nor are the better varieties of facts.

If you are applying your own subjective thought process to non-factual data, then you are not thinking critically.

Which you would know, if you were thinking critically. But you're not, so you mistake other non-critical thinkers thoughts and arguments (see: Glen Beck) as valid, rather than mere entertainment.

Just sayin'.

[grgspunk]

How many of those guys might be from Texas though? And I'd bet that a Texan mule deer hunter would make a pretty good sniper on his own turf.

Maybe a couple, but there's also plenty from places like Washington, Pennsylvania and New York. They go through heavy background checks to ensure they can stay loyal anyway, so that's really a non-issue. I also kinda doubt a mule deer hunter would be able to pick off a SEAL sniper in a ghille suit providing recon and cover for the main unit from over 700 yards away.

[Bernard_Monsha]

They go through heavy background checks to ensure they can stay loyal anyway, so that's really a non-issue.

This is not Stalinist Russia, they do not have Commissars ensuring loyalty to the "regime" in the military. Go back to eating Cheetos, playing SOCom, and talking to fat mouthbreathers who think they are a cross between SEAL team 6 and Napoleon because they play paintball.

[flatfour]

Maybe a couple, but there's also plenty from places like Washington, Pennsylvania and New York. They go through heavy background checks to ensure they can stay loyal anyway, so that's really a non-issue. I also kinda doubt a mule deer hunter would be able to pick off a SEAL sniper in a ghille suit providing recon and cover for the main unit from over 700 yards away.

Just something I thought you should know, Texans make up at least a 25% of the USA's military, 36% of the USMC, and we do have a habit of stealing equipment from our former allies, look up the Battle of Gonzales.

This would equal suckage, we've got way to many external enemies licking their chops at the thought of this event. But the positive side we'd actually get our border under control. lol.

[goddessofanime]

Someone archive this thread...because this is the best one so far this year.

:lol:

[grgspunk]

Just something I thought you should know, Texans make up at least a 25% of the USA's military, 36% of the USMC, and we do have a habit of stealing equipment from our former allies, look up the Battle of Gonzales.

This would equal suckage, we've got way to many external enemies licking their chops at the thought of this event. But the positive side we'd actually get our border under control. lol.

Unless you've got the sources to back it up, I'm not inclined to believe you. ;)

This is not Stalinist Russia, they do not have Commissars ensuring loyalty to the "regime" in the military. Go back to eating Cheetos, playing SOCom, and talking to fat mouthbreathers who think they are a cross between SEAL team 6 and Napoleon because they play paintball.

Actually, there is a saying in the US military where you're supposedly "In a communist society to protect a democratic nation." (Free healthcare, anyone?) Special forces personnel all go through a background check to ensure that they are mentally and emotionally stable, have no criminal history, and are of good character. If they find out one of their members had deep secessionistic or extremist beliefs, they're not going to want him conducting a mission.

158. The revolution is not now. (http://skippyslist.com/list/)

[flatfour]

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/bltx.htm

That's just what we have stationed here doesn't count the personnel we have in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. But then again I would prefer that you didn't believe me.:P

[grgspunk]

*facepalms*

Dude, I could join the military by signing up in a recruiting office in Florida and be stationed on a base in California. The number of bases or personnel stationed in a state does NOT necessarily equate to the personnel being native to that state.

Seriously, would you call me a native South Carolinan if I came from California to Parris Island to get some basic training as a marine?

[flatfour]

Well that link was more to show the amount of hard ware we have in this state rather than the personnel. lol.

[grgspunk]

And how do you plan on accessing all that hardware without getting shot? It belongs to the government, not the state of Texas.

Give it up.

[flatfour]

That's why I told you to read about the Battle of Gonzales. It wouldn't be the first time we did it.

[grgspunk]

Battle of Gonzales? The battle that took place back in 1835? In a time where there were no automatic weapons, bomber aircraft with guided munitions, snipers or tanks?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good luck. And if you do win, good luck trying to keep all that hardware intact once the cruise missiles start coming at you. :naughty:

[Trefellin]

Fight, fight, fight! http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee223/Trefellin/HappyDance2.gif

[flatfour]

lol. Its ok Texans aren't afraid to die for freedom. Besides the current administration doesn't have the pair required to order something like that, and from all the armed forces people I've talked to and there's no way they'd follow orders like that, but then again their all from Texas.

It was just an example of our history, if you've never been to Texas you wouldn't understand the culture, its a love it or hate it culture. lol.>_<

[grgspunk]

Well, good luck with your secession. I admire your spirit.

Oh, and do beware of the JDAMs. ^_^

[flatfour]

Will do.:ssj:

But like I said, its just a bunch of hot air, may be at most a passive aggressive shot across the bow. lol.

[Gray]

Oh please, we'd just nuke texas, pave over it and build a walmart.

[flatfour]

Oh please, we'd just nuke texas, pave over it and build a walmart.

LOL, yea that's real nice buddy. Oh and we already have Walmarts, but HEB has better produce anyways.

[Suiko Eiji]

Well i DO critical think.

effing meme'd.

I do this on occasion when I'm in the mood for some trolling. They get angry so easily over trivial comments, and rational, concise arguments supporting "les maudis anglais" is met with warnings of a temp. ban. :lol:

I once made a thread with the idea that if we were all smart enough that learning a language isn't a problem, the French/English dispute would become a triviality. A 40 page flame war erupted, and I barely needed to post in it after my OP. :lol:

My desire to read this is only met with a sigh as my French sucks (and, being the Quebecois secessionist board, I imagine it is only in French).

[Victory]

I thought some more and people are laughing at this thread because they don't think Texas is going to secede. Thus they think there is no point talking about it, waltsoph3. You talked about critical thinking. You did apply critical thought in considering what secession entails, however you should also think about the plausibility of such an event before anything else.

Here's what I think: Secession is an old pipe dream in the south. It has romantic appeal. Governor Perry is running for re-election in 2010 (wikipedia told me). He doesn't really want to secede but if bringing up the idea gets him some votes... Why not?

Now am I talking nonsense? I don't even know which side Texas was on during the civil war for sure. I didn't learn American history. So I guess my message is, like, use what you know to figure out the rest.

for Suiko Eiji, it goes like this:
Typical franco argument: hells yeah! separation!
Typical anglo argument: let quebec separate, all they do is complain! good riddance!

F: S... stupid Canada, I-It's not like I even like you or anything!
A: S... stupid Quebec, I-It's not like I even like you or anything!
GOTO START

Me: Tsundere is old ****ing news. Let's watch something else. ****.

[Holy Knight]

^ Man, so true. It's like a broken record you can't do anything about.

My desire to read this is only met with a sigh as my French sucks (and, being the Quebecois secessionist board, I imagine it is only in French).

I tried finding the thread in question, but I think it's been deleted. I did post it about three years ago, after all, and I think my account has also been deleted due to inactivity. Shame. I can still link to the crime site, though (http://www.independance-quebec.com/forum/index.php). Click on "discussions politiques", and if you can at least read the thread titles, you'll get an idea of the stuff that's discussed.

It's really too bad you can't read French, because there's still some interesting stuff that you can get in there, as well as extremist personalities. I checked, and there's an anarchist with the username "Oi_PollOi" who joined shortly after I did back then, and he's still posting 20k+ character long texts about the values of anarchy no one reads. You get all types. :lol:

[Lemina]

LOL, yea that's real nice buddy. Oh and we already have Walmarts, but HEB has better produce anyways.

Yeah, I have to agree. Not just the produce, but the quality of meat in HEB is far better to that of Wal-Mart's. :lol: Last time I heard, Wal-Mart didn't have a majority of the market share of grocery shopping in Texas, at least here in SA for sure.

[taily]

There is nothing extreme about the Constitution and it's ways.

But there is something extreme about you somehow managing to fit into every single thread you set eyes on how much you hate Obama and how you're being repressed by some evil tyrant whom only you seemed to be so bothered about. You might disagree with Obamas policies but he's not some crazed dictaitor intent on destroying every human right in existence despite what your paranoid hallucinations might say otherwise.

I mean god.

You're entitled to your opinion and all but give it a rest sometime please.

Just for the record...I have nothing against Texas.

Seriously, this is the first I've heard of it.

First you've heard of Texas?



:P

[RecentMidget]

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff340/cowsbig****/2821183532_8b7875a740.jpg

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Woah gohan look, Cotton is grabbing Mrs. Kahn's ***.

That is HOT

God I'd love to be Mrs. Suphanooseenphone's underwear for a day.

EDIT 2: Except on laundry day

[waltsoph3]

ok Desslock thank you for point out the definition of critical thinking. Thats makes more sense now.

I apologize guys. I must retract saying i critical think since i am indeed not implying my words corretly with actual facts. I am just expressing an opinion that i do feel at times is a serious thing to ponder.

So if i'm not critical thinking Mr. Desslock then what do you call my opinions to be with this thread? Surly theres a definition for it. Maybee worse case scenerio? But its not ment in one way as propaganda. I just truly wish you stop with the mind games with me. Please.
I'm just trying to express opinions on topics. Even if there not always based on 100% factual information found in the books.

There is one critical thinking fact with my past statement and that was about the "rember the alamo" quote. Mostly i was talking about the alamo and Texas past history.

For those of you who don't know about it The alamo was a historic battle that help change the tide of the Texas Revolution. Even though Texans lost that battle it would then be at the battle of San Jacinto where people shouted "Rember the Alamo!". Texas won that battle. Weeks later Texas became an Independent State and paved the way for the Republic of Texas.

Even though it wouldn't become part of the US untill 1845 as the 28th state many Texans will always rember what made it possable. The Alamo in Texas is a historic symbol many Texans take pride in having around. Anyways i hope you guys enjoyed that quick summery of texas history. Truly theres more but i just wanted to share that part with all of ya.


Ok clearly all of you are telling me. Walt..relax. Take a chill pill its not gonna happen. So what do you say we change it up a bit here since it does stay on the subject. Lets have some fun with this....

Your the person incharge. Lets say you secceded your state from a nation, country or whatever place/provience.

Its your own independent state. What would you call your state and what would you do with it? Think of it like Sim City.lol I'm actually intrested in reading what you guys have in mind . :)

[Trefellin]

For those of you who don't know about it The alamo was a historic battle that help change the tide of the Texas Revolution. Even though Texans lost that battle it would then be at the battle of San Jacinto where people shouted "Rember the Alamo!". Texas won that battle. Weeks later Texas became an Independent State and paved the way for the Republic of Texas.

Even though it wouldn't become part of the US untill 1845 as the 28th state many Texans will always rember what made it possable. The Alamo in Texas is a historic symbol many Texans take pride in having around. Anyways i hope you guys enjoyed that quick summery of texas history. Truly theres more but i just wanted to share that part with all of ya.


Yeah, yeah. I have the John Wayne movie in my DVD collection and the Johnny Cash song on my music device.

[Lemina]

Wow, I didn't know the Alamo had this much recognition. My parents house is about 2 miles away from the Alamo. :lol: This thread is really cracking me up. Please keep the discussion civil and don't resort to flames otherwise we'll have to close it.

[waltsoph3]

Wow, I didn't know the Alamo had this much recognition. My parents house is about 2 miles away from the Alamo. :lol: This thread is really cracking me up. Please keep the discussion civil and don't resort to flames otherwise we'll have to close it.

I really hope not either i want to keep this civil as well. But its also sad Lemina. Some people don't even know about the Alamo or its history with Texas in todays world. Its always important to rember these other wise histroy as some say..repeats itself. :(

[Lemina]

I really hope not either i want to keep this civil as well. But its also sad Lemina. Some people don't even know about the Alamo or its history with Texas in todays world. Its always important to rember these other wise histroy as some say..repeats itself. :(

Yes, the Alamo is considered to be a sacred shrine, especially to those living in Texas and who fought for independence from Mexico in the past. Almost no one outside of Texas knows what it stood for and the significant role it played in what shaped the Texas of today. I hope this thread can teach people at least a little bit of why the Alamo is so special and is a historical landmark in US history.

[Gray]

Yes, the Alamo is considered to be a sacred shrine, especially to those living in Texas and who fought for independence from Mexico in the past. Almost no one outside of Texas knows what it stood for and the significant role it played in what shaped the Texas of today. I hope this thread can teach people at least a little bit of why the Alamo is so special and is a historical landmark in US history.


Am I the only one who attented a school that actaully thought about events outside of the immediate state/country? (i.e, Chernobyl, The Alamo)

[Leader Desslock]

...there's an anarchist with the username "Oi_PollOi" who joined shortly after I did back then, and he's still posting 20k+ character long texts about the values of anarchy no one reads.
I swear to gods it's not me. :lol:


I apologize guys. I must retract saying i critical think since i am indeed not implying my words corretly with actual facts. I am just expressing an opinion that i do feel at times is a serious thing to ponder.
See, that paragraph highlights where you're going wrong, but you don't seem to realize it.

We're not getting on your case for expressing your opinion. Not at all. What we're pointing out is that the opinion you're expressing is not itself based on a logical consideration of the facts. Those are two entirely different points, and I'm not certain you've fully realized that yet.

You say that your opinion (whatever it might be - doesn't matter, really) is "a serious thing to ponder", but if you're not evaluating that opinion from the standpoint of facts and logic, then you're the one who isn't pondering it seriously. Giving a matter serious thought means that you're making sure the thoughts you're giving the matter are valid, rational thoughts. That means facts and logic.

So then you come on here with a half-formed, ill-informed, unconsidered opinion that you're echoing from a fearmongering entertainer, you ask us to give the matter serious consideration, and... how can we? You're spouting the sort of stuff that a rational mind would have long ago dismissed as ridiculous.

You want us to give you our serious opinion on things that cannot be taken seriously, once the tiniest level of critical thought is applied. So that's what we're encouraging you to do - think. If you're doing it right, then you should see Glenn Beck for the entertainer that he is, you should see the whole Texas Secession thought for the light bit of silly fluff that it is, you should see that a ruling against Handley/CBLDF isn't going to lead to the repeal of the Fist Amendment, and all sorts of other things you let yourself get worked up about for no reason at all.

So if i'm not critical thinking Mr. Desslock then what do you call my opinions to be with this thread? Surly theres a definition for it.
In this particular thread, I can't say you're fearmongering, although that term has often applied to your posts in the past. You don't seem to be trying to scare anyone else with the Texas Secession thing; it apppears to scare you and you alone.

I guess "panicking" might be appropriate? Or... "gullibly parroting the shtick of an entertainer as though it's gospel?" There's a reason you've been called Chicken Little. You might want to reread that story and take its message to heart:

http://www.edsanders.com/chickenlittle/

I just truly wish you stop with the mind games with me.
Trust me, I've never played any sort of mind games with you. :lol:


Almost no one outside of Texas knows what it stood for and the significant role it played in what shaped the Texas of today.
Lemina, with all due respect... that sounds like a bit of exclusionist Texas propaganda. The kind of thing hardcore Texans tell their kids to remind them why Texans are better than the folks from out of state who don't appreciate the sacrifice.

I grew up near the Canadian border in a state that regards anything that happens out of state as "someone else's problem". Everyone up there knows what the Alamo is, what happened, what it stood for, etc. It's like Pearl Harbor; we don't talk about it every day, but everybody knows about it.

[Trefellin]

isn't going to lead to the repeal of the Fist Amendment,


I saw that and must say, there is no way that anyone could take away the right to fist. President Obama and his wife do it often.


I know it's a typo.

[Leader Desslock]

I know it's a typo.
:lol: :lol:

I'm gonna leave that one in, because it's way funnier than what I was trying to say. :lol:

[Lemina]

Lemina, with all due respect... that sounds like a bit of exclusionist Texas propaganda. The kind of thing hardcore Texans tell their kids to remind them why Texans are better than the folks from out of state who don't appreciate the sacrifice.

I grew up near the Canadian border in a state that regards anything that happens out of state as "someone else's problem". Everyone up there knows what the Alamo is, what happened, what it stood for, etc. It's like Pearl Harbor; we don't talk about it every day, but everybody knows about it.

I understand. It certainly wasn't my intention to sound like an exclusionist. I'm glad people outside of Texas know the significant role the Alamo played in US history. LD, thanks for keeping the topic civil.

[throughhim413]

the repeal of the Fist AmendmentThey may take away the Right to Fists, but they'll never have my Right to Bear Arms (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6875/righttobeararms.jpg)!

[Vaikyuko]

Am I the only one who attented a school that actaully thought about events outside of the immediate state/country? (i.e, Chernobyl, The Alamo)

Nope, I learned about these things too.

I'm just going to keep watching this thread...been reading it for the past day or two and god is it lulzy. I keep cracking up every time I come back to it. Good show. ^_^

[goddessofanime]

I really hope not either i want to keep this civil as well. But its also sad Lemina. Some people don't even know about the Alamo or its history with Texas in todays world. Its always important to rember these other wise histroy as some say..repeats itself. :(

I know what the Alamo is!

[Trefellin]

I think most people know what the Alamo is.

[Suiko Eiji]

^Yeah, it's where we get cars (http://www.alamo.com/). :lol:

[grgspunk]

Meh. Forget the Alamo.

[Trefellin]

Basically, David Bowie and Randy Travis got into a fight with Santa because they both wanted Elmo.

[superplough]

I know about the Alamo thanks to everyone's favourite song

THE ALAMO! **** YEAH! (http://dagobah.biz/flash/americafy.swf)

probably nsfw

[Soluzar]

Yes, the Alamo is considered to be a sacred shrine, especially to those living in Texas and who fought for independence from Mexico in the past. Almost no one outside of Texas knows what it stood for and the significant role it played in what shaped the Texas of today. I hope this thread can teach people at least a little bit of why the Alamo is so special and is a historical landmark in US history.
I don't know where you get this idea from, really. There are several movies, books, songs, all kinds of media in fact that commemorate those events, even people in Europe have a vague idea what happened at the Alamo. I can't imagine that anyone with a reasonable general education doesn't know the basics. If you're saying that hardly anyone outside Texas remembers the details accurately, that might be closer to the mark... but most people know the significance in general terms.

[Lemina]

I don't know where you get this idea from, really. There are several movies, books, songs, all kinds of media in fact that commemorate those events, even people in Europe have a vague idea what happened at the Alamo. I can't imagine that anyone with a reasonable general education doesn't know the basics. If you're saying that hardly anyone outside Texas remembers the details accurately, that might be closer to the mark... but most people know the significance in general terms.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The reason I said what I said is because people are dumbing down the Alamo in this thread. I'm not that surprised the story of the Alamo is this well known internationally. Like you said, there have been several movies, books, and other media that has portrayed the siege of the Alamo that happened in 1836. Of course, every movie ever made of the Alamo has also portrayed the events that happened at the Alamo a little differently. If you want to know the truth about the Alamo, you'll have to go inside the Alamo yourself and check out the exhibits they show to the public by the daughters Republic of Texas. It will mesmerize you.

[goddessofanime]

I keep thinking of that episode of King of the Hill where Hank goes to the Alamo

[Soluzar]

Ahh... maybe I did misunderstand you a little. The odds of me getting to the Alamo in person are a little slim, though. :)

[Lemina]

Ahh... maybe I did misunderstand you a little. The odds of me getting to the Alamo in person are a little slim, though. :)

It can be considered the Eighth Wonder of the World!! No one should leave this world without visiting the Alamo in your lifetime!! ;) :lol:

[Leader Desslock]

I think you misunderstood what I said. The reason I said what I said is because people are dumbing down the Alamo in this thread.
Okay, so I said "General Quetzocoatl" and not "General Quetzocoatl and his army". Since the title of this thread isn't "Post the very precise details of what happened at the Alamo", I don't think my abridgement of the details implies ignorance of the situation.

Like you said, there have been several movies, books, and other media that has portrayed the siege of the Alamo that happened in 1836. Of course, every movie ever made of the Alamo has also portrayed the events that happened at the Alamo a little differently.
Yeah, but... the same can be said of every other significant historical event. There are lots of different movie/tv versions of what happened on September 11th, but that doesn't mean I have to fly to New York before I can understand what happened. There are lots of different versions about events in the middle east about 2,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean that I have to fly to Bethlehem before I'm going to be able to understand The Christmas Story. There are literally thousands of different stories about events in WWII, but that doesn't mean I have to fly to Normandy, Berlin, Poland, Tokyo and Pearl Harbor before I can understand what happened.

What happened in the Alamo is just one more chapter in the American history book, no more nor less significant than every other such chapter. There are good sources of information and bad sources of information on what happened, just like with the other events.

Anyone capable of learning what happened in any of the other events is capable of understanding what happened at the Alamo without renting their own car to do it, I should think.

If you want to know the truth about the Alamo, you'll have to go inside the Alamo yourself and check out the exhibits they show to the public by the daughters Republic of Texas. It will mesmerize you.
I'm sure that the Japanese would say the same thing about their own WWII memorials, and I'm certain that outside historical sources have called the Japanese depiction of events in WWII into question. Sometimes the source is a little too close to the source, if you know what I mean.

The Daughters Of The Republic Of Texas are just one more group with one more version of events, to be taken into consideration along with the others. Just 'cause they're locals doesn't make them any more or less credible than other sources.

[Lemina]

Ok LD, I get your point. Let me just say that I would think the version of the battle of the Alamo by the Daughters Republic of Texas would be more accurate than one from a Hollywood flick. I'll just leave it at that.

[old hat]

Of course I know what The Alamo is.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq45/oldhat321/Misc/random/alamo.jpg
It's an old building.

[goddessofanime]

or if you wanted to be even more technical, Ozzy Osbourne pissed on there.

[Leader Desslock]

Let me just say that I would think the version of the battle of the Alamo by the Daughters Republic of Texas would be more accurate than one from a Hollywood flick.
I might say that the depiction of events at a Japanese WWII memorial would be more accurate than other depictions, but a picture (from Azrael) is worth a thousand words on this one:

http://photobucket.com/albums/y105/LordAzrael/Az/slanted.jpg

Lots of people say a lot of things about a lot of different events. They all need to be taken into account and given the weight they're worth, no matter which war they're talking about.

[CrossboneGundam]

Wait, what? The Alamo has... what, exactly, to do with modern day conservative bluster?

Also anything that inspires a zealous fervor in a Texan is trouble, in my book.

[Reinas]

tl;dr

But I caught a few posts talking about how Texas will recede into a Pakistan like state and all the media will be sucked out dry like the Las Vegas desert.

Seriously?

How elitist.

That's pretty funny, in a sad way.

[Bernard_Monsha]

The Daughters Of The Republic Of Texas are just one more group with one more version of events, to be taken into consideration along with the others. Just 'cause they're locals doesn't make them any more or less credible than other sources.


You are just bitter there is no basement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYfjq3ZYZbA) and Inez's pots are nicer than yours.

I watched an episode of Unsolved History were they tried to say Davy Crockett surrendered. They pursued one piece of shakey evidence ignoring the mountain of evidence saying otherwise and declared it was true. I stopped having any faith in the Discovery Channel at that point.

[waltsoph3]

I actually went to the Alamo once on a vacation trip. Its was defently a great experence. And i agree if you can do it once in this lifetime go check it out. Then afterwards go check out in San Antonio whats called the River Walk. Beautiful spot and a shopping center that is HUGE! Also its pretty cool to see the fish. San Antonio is just a beautiful place to see.

[old hat]

Lots of people say a lot of things about a lot of different events. They all need to be taken into account and given the weight they're worth, no matter which war they're talking about.

Lemina is talking about Hollywood movies. Those are not sources. They are pieces of entertainment. I don't believe that they need to be taken into account. Other histories? Sure. Hollywood movies? No.

[animeotaku99]

Our Gadsden Flag just arrived :)

[Leader Desslock]

Lemina is talking about Hollywood movies. Those are not sources. They are pieces of entertainment.
I have a feeling that Tora! Tora! Tora! is more accurate on certain points of its portrayal of WWII than the plaque whose image I posted.

Information is information. We can't bust Walt's chops for failing to evaluate information with a critical eye unless we're all using those same critical eyes.

The Daughters of the Republic of Texas may be a reliable source of information, for all I know. But I'm not going to assume that they are, simply because they're local. If I ever develop an interest in Alamo history and folklore, I'll review their information in context, just like everyone else's.

[Trefellin]

Our Gadsden Flag just arrived :)

Nice. :thumbsup:


It's filler time.

[old hat]

I have a feeling that Tora! Tora! Tora! is more accurate on certain points of its portrayal of WWII than the plaque whose image I posted.

Information is information. We can't bust Walt's chops for failing to evaluate information with a critical eye unless we're all using those same critical eyes.

The Daughters of the Republic of Texas may be a reliable source of information, for all I know. But I'm not going to assume that they are, simply because they're local. If I ever develop an interest in Alamo history and folklore, I'll review their information in context, just like everyone else's.

Exactly what are you basing this feeling on?

Saying that information is information doesn't really say much. Movies are made for entertainment and often take huge liberties. Fiction and non-fiction could both be called information but I don't take fiction into account when discussion historical events.

Whether they are local or not is irrelevant. The account they give either stands or falls on its own merits. Have they done their research or haven't they?

[Trefellin]

Tora! Tora! Tora! was an awesome movie, by the way. The fire, crashes and all those thing were spectacular.

[Leader Desslock]

Exactly what are you basing this feeling on?
Tora! ^3 had Charlton Heston in it. Charlton Heston is automatic win. He not only fought those damned dirty apes, but then he became their king. The rest of us mere mortals simply can't compare to his greatness.

EDIT: Come to think of it, that was Midway. Damn.

Ah, well... Tora! Tora! Tora! had Jamie Farr in it, which makes it naught but a web of lies. Problem solved.


Movies are made for entertainment and often take huge liberties.
Liberties which a self-proclaimed group of folk tasked with preserving the cultural heritage of Texas (as regards its largest tourist attraction) would naturally never take. And I'm sure the San Antonio Chamber of Commerce would never urge them to stress the positive aspects of the event, downplaying the less marketable aspects. That'd be just crazy talk, to think there might be a possible conflict of interest, there.

Fiction and non-fiction could both be called information but I don't take fiction into account when discussion historical events.
Interestingly, much of what we know about biblical times and events was learned in exactly that manner. Verified by archaeological sciences, sure - but they had to figure out where to dig.

I seem to recall Troy was found in a similar fashion, wasn't it?

The Canterbury Tales offers a nice bit of insight into class differences in the Middle Ages, but nobody ever considered it a historical document.

Fiction's a source of information, just like anything else.

Whether they are local or not is irrelevant.
Didn't I say that?

The account they give either stands or falls on its own merits.
Yeah, I think I said something similar to that, too.

Have they done their research or haven't they?
I'm pretty sure I said I'd take the time to figure that out if and when the story of the Alamo ever piques my interest. We seem to be agreeing here.

[old hat]

Sarcastic insinuations are meaningless and poisoning the well is a logical fallacy. If you are contending this group is putting out a distorted history then do so and and back it up with hard facts.

Archaelogy and history aren't the same field. The Iliad and the oral tradtions it was based on might have been based on a real city and the city found might be that city. That doesn't mean that the events of The Iliad should be looked at as a historical account though elements of it may have been inspired by real events at some point

or maybe not.

Fiction is information but even historical fiction is not history. Current Hollywood films say more about current society and movie making than they do about history. They say more about how people think of historical events than the events themselves.

We aree on some things and not others. I do not agree that Hollywood movies need to be considered as sources of historical information alongside actual histories in order for an analysis of historical events to be complete. I also do agree with dismissing the information presented by this Daughters group without seeing it or evaluating it.

[Leader Desslock]

If you are contending this group is putting out a distorted history then do so and and back it up with hard facts.
Um... at what point did I make that contention?

All I've said is that I would take their information in context, just like any other source of information, if I ever expressed an interest in the topic.

Why is that wrong, exactly?

The Iliad and the oral tradtions it was based on might have been based on a real city and the city found might be that city. That doesn't mean that the events of The Iliad should be looked at as a historical account...
You're trying to make an all-or-nothing connection where I'm implying no such thing. I simply mentioned that folkloric (i.e.: fictional) sources of information are not entirely useless. They need to be sifted to separate the wheat from the chaff, sure. But they're a source of information, as has been demonstrated repeatedly in history.

Fiction is information but even historical fiction is not history. Current Hollywood films say more about current society and movie making than they do about history. They say more about how people think of historical events than the events themselves.
The same thing can be said of any historical account. You can't divorce the human perception component of a historical account.

[waltsoph3]

I agree with old hat when it comes to movies. A movie can only do so much with the budget at hand and not to also mention the director's vision. You can only do so much.

However movies also help inspire people to go read up and learn more from history books,go to museum or monuments and all other sorts of events that where left behind .

Either ways its history that help inspire films and movies to be made. But thats just me.

[goddessofanime]

.

Either ways its history that help inspire films and movies to be made. But thats just me.

So even DragonBall Evolution is history?

[Bernard_Monsha]

So even DragonBall Evolution is history?

Judging from the box office receipts yes.

.rimshot.

[waltsoph3]

So even DragonBall Evolution is history?

Lol well..if it wasn't for Dragonball there wouldn't be a movie made for it right? But then again maybee its just a coincidence...nah it couldn't be could it. lol :P