Kakashi (Gaiden) or Sasuke (Pre-timeskip)?

[jasminegreen]

My friend and I were talkin' about this earlier, so I wanted some extra opinions. Now, if you've read the Kakashi Gaiden, you know what Kakashi was like when he was thirteen, and we all know how Sasuke was pre-timeskip. So, compairing them, I have two questions.
Whicho ine of them was more arrogant (bigger superiority complex)?
Who was the better ninja?
I think Kakashi was the better ninja, and the less arrogant one, but my friend is the polar oposite. So, where do you stand?

[SonRyu]

It goes without saying that Kakashi is the better ninja at that age (he became a Jounin after all). As for arrogance, that goes to Sasuke. Kakashi overcame his superiority complex, Sasuke hasn't.

[Kcets]

It goes without saying that Kakashi is the better ninja at that age (he became a Jounin after all). As for arrogance, that goes to Sasuke. Kakashi overcame his superiority complex, Sasuke hasn't.

I agree completely. Sasuke pre-timeskip seemed (and still seems) to automatically put himself above everyone because he's an Uchiha. Naruto needs to knock him on his @ss.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

^

How can you guys say that when the only thing that makes Kakashi a high level ninja is the sharringan eye, which he didn't possess until the tail end of his arc.

[Kcets]

^

How can you guys say that when the only thing that makes Kakashi a high level ninja is the sharringan eye, which he didn't possess until the tail end of his arc.

He was still made a Jonin before he even had the Sharingan though, Kakashi's skills were only amplified by the Sharingan, it didn't solely make him a great ninja.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

They were only amplified, but amplified by like 5x. I've never seen him really be able to hold his own with an enemy when he isn't using his Sharringan. His copy techniques and ability to read attacks and movements, which are like 100% sharringan, are like his bread and butter attacks and what he relies on to survive.

Without them, he'd be dead in the water. Not saying he'd suck, but he'd be like your typical no name adult ninja from Naruto.

Sasuke + Level 2 Sharringan > Kakashi - Sharringan

[jasminegreen]

They were only amplified, but amplified by like 5x. I've never seen him really be able to hold his own with an enemy when he isn't using his Sharringan. His copy techniques and ability to read attacks and movements, which are like 100% sharringan, are like his bread and butter attacks and what he relies on to survive.

Without them, he'd be dead in the water. Not saying he'd suck, but he'd be like your typical no name adult ninja from Naruto.

Sasuke + Level 2 Sharringan > Kakashi - Sharringan

You could say the same thing for Sasuke. Also, Kakashi never had his Shaingan out dring the Sand/Sound invasion. He was taking out ninja with nothing but Taijutsu, and a kunai. The Sharingan has just made Kakashi lazy. I mean, why spend time creating new jutsu, when you can just copy them. If Kakashi didn't have his Sharingan, he wouldn't be slacking off as much. And, what exactally has Sasuke accomplished without Sharingan? When Kakashi was thirteen, he created his own jutsu, and when Sasuke was thirteen, he was using the jutsu his teacher had to teach him. Also, Despite the fact that Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, he was able to obtain the ultimate Sharingan that even most Uchiha can't accomplish. That says something about his abilty. he's able to master another clan's bloodline limit.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

You could say the same thing for Sasuke.

But the comparison wasn't Sasuke-Sharringan vs Kakashi-Sharringan. It was pre-Shippudden Curse Seal Level 3, Sharringan Level 3 Sasuke vs Kakashi - Sharringan. You seriously feel like a Kakashi with no Sharringan could keep up with Naruto in the same way that Sasuke could when they fought?

Also, Kakashi never had his Shaingan out dring the Sand/Sound invasion. He was taking out ninja with nothing but Taijutsu, and a kunai.

While true, practically every no name adult ninja was beating people left and right during that invasion.

And, what exactally has Sasuke accomplished without Sharingan? When Kakashi was thirteen, he created his own jutsu, and when Sasuke was thirteen, he was using the jutsu his teacher had to teach him.

Sasuke would be crap without the Sharringan. I admit that, however, the original poster wasn't asking us to compare Sasuke and Kakashi without their Sharringan. It was pre time skip Sasuke (Level 3 Curse Seal + Level 3 Sharingan) versus Kakashi with no sharringan.

Also, yeah, he created a jutsu that he couldn't even use properly because his body wasn't able to keep up with it or is it in a way that was actually worthwhile. Saying Sasuke sucks because of this is like saying saying Naruto sucks because he didn't invent the rasengan. Actually thats wrong. Sasuke learned Chidori and was actually able to master it in a way Kakashi couldn't, even with 1 Uchiha eye. A better comparison would be like saying Naruto sucks because even though his Wind Shuriken Rasengan blows away what the 4th could do, he didn't invent the idea of a rasengan so he's crappy by default.

Also, Despite the fact that Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, he was able to obtain the ultimate Sharingan that even most Uchiha can't accomplish. That says something about his abilty. he's able to master another clan's bloodline limit.


Thats post Kakashi gaiden, but even so, he was only able to do it because he had a Sharringan eye. Sasuke has more than surpassed that. Even when he hadn't, Kakashi's ultimate form is kinda crummy. All he's been able to do so far is take out small objects. When Itachi uses his ultimate form, the opponent is in a coma for weeks. I don't think Kakashi has ever even come close to defeating an opponent with his ultimate form.

[jasminegreen]

You could say the same thing for Sasuke.

But the comparison wasn't Sasuke-Sharringan vs Kakashi-Sharringan. It was pre-Shippudden Curse Seal Level 3, Sharringan Level 3 Sasuke vs Kakashi - Sharringan. You seriously feel like a Kakashi with no Sharringan could keep up with Naruto in the same way that Sasuke could when they fought?

Also, Kakashi never had his Shaingan out dring the Sand/Sound invasion. He was taking out ninja with nothing but Taijutsu, and a kunai.

While true, practically every no name adult ninja was beating people left and right during that invasion.

And, what exactally has Sasuke accomplished without Sharingan? When Kakashi was thirteen, he created his own jutsu, and when Sasuke was thirteen, he was using the jutsu his teacher had to teach him.

Sasuke would be crap without the Sharringan. I admit that, however, the original poster wasn't asking us to compare Sasuke and Kakashi without their Sharringan. It was pre time skip Sasuke (Level 3 Curse Seal + Level 3 Sharingan) versus Kakashi with no sharringan.

Also, yeah, he created a jutsu that he couldn't even use properly because his body wasn't able to keep up with it or is it in a way that was actually worthwhile. Saying Sasuke sucks because of this is like saying saying Naruto sucks because he didn't invent the rasengan. Actually thats wrong. Sasuke learned Chidori and was actually able to master it in a way Kakashi couldn't, even with 1 Uchiha eye. A better comparison would be like saying Naruto sucks because even though his Wind Shuriken Rasengan blows away what the 4th could do, he didn't invent the idea of a rasengan so he's crappy by default.

Also, Despite the fact that Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, he was able to obtain the ultimate Sharingan that even most Uchiha can't accomplish. That says something about his abilty. he's able to master another clan's bloodline limit.


Thats post Kakashi gaiden, but even so, he was only able to do it because he had a Sharringan eye. Sasuke has more than surpassed that. Even when he hadn't, Kakashi's ultimate form is kinda crummy. All he's been able to do so far is take out small objects. When Itachi uses his ultimate form, the opponent is in a coma for weeks. I don't think Kakashi has ever even come close to defeating an opponent with his ultimate form.

I can agree on those points, except Kakashi being crap without Sharingan. Bravo. But, you have to think of Kakashi's accomplishments. He graduated from the academy at the age of 5, became a chunin at 6, and a Jonin at 13 yrs. When Sasuke was younger, he was viewed as a hopeless ninja by his father. And, Sasuke didn't even become Jonin level until he was fifteen. Kakashi was at the age of 12. Also, about Kakashi's MS. You can't compare his MS to Itach's. He is a true owner of the Sharingan, so of course his mastery is better. But, the fact that Kakashi can activate MS at all is a feat in itself. Also, Kakashi would've used MS on Pain if it wasn't for Chouji & Chouza. And, the first time we see him use it is against Deidara, and he's still a rookie with it.

[f2akid]

Sasuke would be crap without the Sharringan. I admit that, however, the original poster wasn't asking us to compare Sasuke and Kakashi without their Sharringan. It was pre time skip Sasuke (Level 3 Curse Seal + Level 3 Sharingan) versus Kakashi with no sharringan.

The person you're addressing is the OP.

[ZeroRyoko1974]

Well considering that Rock Lee whipped Sasukes *** even with his sharingin, and I don't think that Lee is Jounin level, I would have to say that Kakashi at Sausakes age is a better ninja. Sasuke pre time skip lol super eye hax was only an above average ninja at that age. kakashi was considered good enough to be a jounin, I am sure he knew plenty of tricks that Sasuke couldn't overcome

[ZechsMerquise1]

They were only amplified, but amplified by like 5x. I've never seen him really be able to hold his own with an enemy when he isn't using his Sharringan. His copy techniques and ability to read attacks and movements, which are like 100% sharringan, are like his bread and butter attacks and what he relies on to survive.

Without them, he'd be dead in the water. Not saying he'd suck, but he'd be like your typical no name adult ninja from Naruto.

Sasuke + Level 2 Sharringan > Kakashi - Sharringan


So your saying if you had a sharingan you wouldn't use it because you want to prove your strong without it? He doesn't need a reason to "prove" himself lol Of course if you had something REALLY good, you would use it.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

^ I'm not saying that and even if I was it does nothing to change that a Sasuke + Curse Seal Level 3 + Level 3 Sharringan > Kakashi - Sharringan. That is the comparison that was made in the original post. Sasuke - sharringan vs kakashi - sharringan is what everyone seemed to read it as, but its not what was written.

Its pre-timeskip Sasuke (which is basically the Sasuke that fought Kyuuibi-Naruto at the waterfall) vs young kakashi with no sharringan.

IMO, pre-time skip Sasuke is nowhere near as weak as you guys make him out to be and a sharringanless Kakashi is nowhere near as strong as you guys make him out to be.

[Dawn]

You could be right about that but the only thing that is making Sasuke that strong is his hate to his brother and who knows how long that would last.

Kakashi also had the 4th hokage as his teacher.

So i would say Kakashi is the better one and Sasuke is the arogant one.

[charred_feather]

Kakashi is the better one. At thirteen he was already jounin, was creating his own jutsu and was practically second-in-command. For the Fourth to actually make him shoulder the responsibility of a leader means a lot... even if he was an arrogant little brat then.