Why is Kakashi so underrated?

[jasminegreen]

I was at another naruto website[How about you don't link to another forum, since it is against the rules ~Shiroiyuki] and from looking at things, I see nothing but people saying that Kakashi is weak, and fodder. He is, without a doubt, the most underrated good guy in the manga. Here are some reasons people give for Kakashi being weak
He lost to Pain and his death (if he is dead) served no purpose
He's been surpassed by two of his students
He's always beaten up in a fight
He would've died fighting Zabuza if Naruto & Sasuke didn't save him
He was beat by Itachi
He was scared of Orochimaru
He's always in the hospital
These are the reasons i've seen. If I see anyone calling Kakashi weak, these reasons pop up. All of these are one-sided. There are logical counters to all of these. Here they are.
He may not have won the battle with Pain, but not many can beat him. So, if Kakashi's fodder for losing to Pain, then that makes just about everyone fodder. Nobody calls Sandaime fodder for losing to Orochimaru. He died and didn't even kill the person he was fighting. And, Orovhimaru was able to carry on with all of his previous schemes, and was still a threat. But is Sandaime weak? No. He did the best he could, and he put up a good fight. Kakashi did the same against Pain.
All ninja teachers are surpassed by his students eventually. It's natural. Sandaime was surpassed by his students, and nobody calls him fodder. Gai may've been surpassed by Neji & Lee, does that make him anyless of a great ninja? No.
Anytime Kakashi has been in a battle, he's had to protect, or just plain babysit teammates that weren't any help
Kakashi did get caught in Zabuza's water prison. That's true, but the only purpose the prison served was to keep Kakashi in one place and out of the way while he killed everyone else. If he wanted to kill Kakashi, he would've had to release the prison to get to him. Once Kakashi is out, i'm sure he'll be pissed after Zabuza just finished murdering his students, so he'd proceed to kill Zabuza. We've seen how Kakashi beat Zabuza when he was pissed. Also, that shows how strong Kakashi is. Zabuza couldn't get through Kakashi, so he had to go around him to get to Tazuna.
Getting beat by Itachi shouldn't make him, or anyone, weak. Itchi, by himself, murdered one of the strongest clans in the world. So losing to Itachi shouldn't make anyone look bad. I mean, not many can beat Itachi.
Orochimaru used his death viewing jutsu on him, that's when Kakashi started to freak out. Note, that before the death viewing jutsu, Kakashi was ready to fight with him to protect Sasuke
He's been in the hospital twice, well thrice now, but people act like he lives there. Naruto's been hospitallized twice, and nobody puts him down because of it. Sasuke's been to the hospital and died about twice fighting Killer Bee, but no one busts his balls because of it, or calls him fodder.
It seems to me, that Kakashi is nitpicked more than any other character in the manga. The slightest thing makes Kakashi weak. I can't remember the last time I heard someone say Kakashi was strong. I think he's at least a low Kage level ninja. He just has one big weakness, which is his chakra. His chakra is what holds him back a bit, or alot I should say.

[Kcets]

I was totally unaware of Kakashi being bashed by anyone, but I would agree with you that he is in no way fodder. The only times Kakashi gets hurt or loses are when (as you said before) he's fighting someone rediculously strong or has to babysit ninjas who are far to weak to defend themselves. Oh no, Kakashi was afraid of Orochimaru and got beat up by Itachi and Pain! Yeah, and? Those are all epic, epic, EPIC ninjas. I mean seriously, you deserve a bad-*** award if you are at least able to put up a decent fight against those three. Totally with you on this one.

[Mr. sickVisionz]

I was totally unaware of Kakashi being bashed by anyone, but I would agree with you that he is in no way fodder.

Same here. The person I really get mad at people underrating is Orochimaru. I can understand the whole, "weirdo" and "questionable interaction with minors" thing*, but weak or a bad ninja... nah, I don't buy that for a second.

*He's not a molester at all though. He just understands that being a ninja means you know ninjutsu. Being a master ninja means you've mastered everything about ninjutsu. You can never do that in one life time, so he found a way to steal people's body and extend his own life so that he can truly master everything. And hell, if you're gonna steal a body, why get some weak adult who's already been injured? Why not take a kid with an insane blood line trait and potential to be an insane level ninja? You get a great body and you can access even more jutsu that you couldn't previously use.

Plus, Gurren is kinda hot and it was awesome how they showed her just destroyed and heart broken when she couldn't become one with Orochimaru. Orochi = Pimp by Blood.

[jasminegreen]

I was totally unaware of Kakashi being bashed by anyone, but I would agree with you that he is in no way fodder. The only times Kakashi gets hurt or loses are when (as you said before) he's fighting someone rediculously strong or has to babysit ninjas who are far to weak to defend themselves. Oh no, Kakashi was afraid of Orochimaru and got beat up by Itachi and Pain! Yeah, and? Those are all epic, epic, EPIC ninjas. I mean seriously, you deserve a bad-*** award if you are at least able to put up a decent fight against those three. Totally with you on this one.

He may not be bashed much on this site. On this site he may actually get the respect he deserves. But on the main site that i'm a member of, Kakashi is the most bashed good guy, fighting wise. Let me put it this way. If you just got into Naruto, and you wanted to check out some forums, when you see thosee forums, you'd think "This Kakashi guy must be the most hated character in the show." People there say things like "Kakashi hasn't been cool since he faught Zabuza" or "He's nothing but Naruto's cheerleader in Shippuden."

[ryushe]

Granted, I'm not into Naruto like I was before, but honestly, I don't really hear too much bad things about Kakashi.

Rock Lee on the other hand...

[adadqgg]

Nobody beats Itachi... he was dying already.

Kakashi is just not supposed to be the strong ninja... that would overshadow naruto(who, btw, is the main character).

Even though he lost to all the bad guys, atleast he lived until he fought Pain(no one is 100% sure if he is REALLY dead), and Jiuraiya died... and we are still not 100% sure that Kakashi is dead(plot armor ftw?).

Kakashi is just there to be cool.
http://iareawesomeness.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/kakashi_thumbs_up.jpg

[Kcets]

He may not be bashed much on this site. On this site he may actually get the respect he deserves. But on the main site that i'm a member of, Kakashi is the most bashed good guy, fighting wise. Let me put it this way. If you just got into Naruto, and you wanted to check out some forums, when you see thosee forums, you'd think "This Kakashi guy must be the most hated character in the show." People there say things like "Kakashi hasn't been cool since he faught Zabuza" or "He's nothing but Naruto's cheerleader in Shippuden."

That makes me very sad indeed, I just lost even more faith in people.

[f2akid]

Kakashi is not dead. Think about it, the fact that there's this big cloud of mystery surrounding his death means that he is in fact alive and Kishi's waiting to give him a comeback with a bang, then Kakashi will finally fight to his full potential (probably after Naruto has run out of steam against Pain and Kakashi sweeps up whatever's left just like against Kakuzu).

Look at all the other deaths - there was no question about whether they lived or not, deaths are more effective when they're in your face. The previous characters that died got epic and honorable deaths - they died by the way of the ninja. Kakashi's supposed death however undermines him in every way (like the fact that he's mastered over 1000 jutsu and we've only seen a handful from him). You also have to consider how many questions him dying would leave unanswered, for example he hasn't had a chance to really come face to face with Uchiha Madara and talk yet, among other things.

Kakashi will come back later. If he doesn't Kishimoto's officially a **** storyteller (for that one reason, yes).

[crow-kun]

Since when did Kakashi have anything to do with Madara?

[f2akid]

Since when did Kakashi have anything to do with Madara?

Whose body do you think that is?

[adadqgg]

Since when did Kakashi have anything to do with Madara?

Tobi/Madara...

Just happens to have one eye and has armor on one side of the body...

And how would we know if he was not lying?

[ibarfrainbows]

:'D

I make up for the hate, I over-love him.
Haha, and if Masashi Kishimoto did actaully kill him off all I have to say is that guy is a freaking idiot.
Way to kill all the DECENT characters Kishi, way too go!
Now all we have left is Sasuke for all the creepy fangirls to faun over
>3>

[Cupi~chan]

Kakashi, dead? it' ll never be. It' s obvious the author wants us to believe that, but I think Kakashi' s just not a character to kill off like that (Unlike Jiraiya, no offense here).

[CapsuleCorpJX]

Kakashi is still a Jounin, two of his students have passed the Three Sages level. Kakashi may have improved since we first saw him, but since he's in his twenties, the idea that he would have improved so much as to catch his younger students who surpassed the three sages is not very likely.

He's probably the most poweful Jounin in the Leaf village, but he's not past the Sage level.

[Len]

Because he needs a haircut. Its obvious, it he stopped looking like the top on an ice-cream cone he would be taken more seriously.

[Dark_Knight]

Kakashi is still a Jounin, two of his students have passed the Three Sages level. Kakashi may have improved since we first saw him, but since he's in his twenties, the idea that he would have improved so much as to catch his younger students who surpassed the three sages is not very likely.

He's probably the most poweful Jounin in the Leaf village, but he's not past the Sage level.

Dunno about that. Gai could probably give him a run for his money, same for Hiashi or Neji (although, granted we haven't seen much of what Hiashi can do, aside from his complete pwning of some nameless sound nin)

[Zechs]

Dunno about that. Gai could probably give him a run for his money, same for Hiashi or Neji (although, granted we haven't seen much of what Hiashi can do, aside from his complete pwning of some nameless sound nin)

That was indeed grade A pwning^_^

[charred_feather]

I was at another naruto website[How about you don't link to another forum, since it is against the rules ~Shiroiyuki] and from looking at things, I see nothing but people saying that Kakashi is weak, and fodder. He is, without a doubt, the most underrated good guy in the manga. Here are some reasons people give for Kakashi being weak
He lost to Pain and his death (if he is dead) served no purpose
He's been surpassed by two of his students
He's always beaten up in a fight
He would've died fighting Zabuza if Naruto & Sasuke didn't save him
He was beat by Itachi
He was scared of Orochimaru
He's always in the hospital
These are the reasons i've seen. If I see anyone calling Kakashi weak, these reasons pop up. All of these are one-sided. There are logical counters to all of these. Here they are.
He may not have won the battle with Pain, but not many can beat him. So, if Kakashi's fodder for losing to Pain, then that makes just about everyone fodder. Nobody calls Sandaime fodder for losing to Orochimaru. He died and didn't even kill the person he was fighting. And, Orovhimaru was able to carry on with all of his previous schemes, and was still a threat. But is Sandaime weak? No. He did the best he could, and he put up a good fight. Kakashi did the same against Pain.
All ninja teachers are surpassed by his students eventually. It's natural. Sandaime was surpassed by his students, and nobody calls him fodder. Gai may've been surpassed by Neji & Lee, does that make him anyless of a great ninja? No.
Anytime Kakashi has been in a battle, he's had to protect, or just plain babysit teammates that weren't any help
Kakashi did get caught in Zabuza's water prison. That's true, but the only purpose the prison served was to keep Kakashi in one place and out of the way while he killed everyone else. If he wanted to kill Kakashi, he would've had to release the prison to get to him. Once Kakashi is out, i'm sure he'll be pissed after Zabuza just finished murdering his students, so he'd proceed to kill Zabuza. We've seen how Kakashi beat Zabuza when he was pissed. Also, that shows how strong Kakashi is. Zabuza couldn't get through Kakashi, so he had to go around him to get to Tazuna.
Getting beat by Itachi shouldn't make him, or anyone, weak. Itchi, by himself, murdered one of the strongest clans in the world. So losing to Itachi shouldn't make anyone look bad. I mean, not many can beat Itachi.
Orochimaru used his death viewing jutsu on him, that's when Kakashi started to freak out. Note, that before the death viewing jutsu, Kakashi was ready to fight with him to protect Sasuke
He's been in the hospital twice, well thrice now, but people act like he lives there. Naruto's been hospitallized twice, and nobody puts him down because of it. Sasuke's been to the hospital and died about twice fighting Killer Bee, but no one busts his balls because of it, or calls him fodder.
It seems to me, that Kakashi is nitpicked more than any other character in the manga. The slightest thing makes Kakashi weak. I can't remember the last time I heard someone say Kakashi was strong. I think he's at least a low Kage level ninja. He just has one big weakness, which is his chakra. His chakra is what holds him back a bit, or alot I should say.

Pretty good reasons. Truthfully, I find it hard to believe that Kakashi is actually bashed... He's one of the decent characters in the show, after all.

I think the main reason people bash him is because they haven't actually seen much of Kakashi. That, or maybe they haven't really thought things through before posting their rants. :/

[jasminegreen]

Pretty good reasons. Truthfully, I find it hard to believe that Kakashi is actually bashed... He's one of the decent characters in the show, after all.

I think the main reason people bash him is because they haven't actually seen much of Kakashi. That, or maybe they haven't really thought things through before posting their rants. :/

On the other website that i'm a meber of, there are just plain Kakashi haters. They think he has nothing to offer, he's no longer needed in the story, and he's gotten beat up in every fight he's been in. I always end up defending Kakashi's honor, but it does no good because the haters always twist things to make it suit Kakashi being "fodder" as they say.

[charred_feather]

... You can't really change haters opinion's of the stuff they... er... hate.

Realizations tend to come to them a little too late. Oh, wait.... scratch that... They often decide to ignore the realization and label it as some sort of 'wth moment'. It's best to just share your opinions (nicely, because some are unnecessarily touchy) and stay silent when they start saying, "He sucks. He should go die or something." Because if you start getting all defensive, they'll just twist your logic even more and then you'll just lose interest in the topic altogether.

[jasminegreen]

... You can't really change haters opinion's of the stuff they... er... hate.

Realizations tend to come to them a little too late. Oh, wait.... scratch that... They often decide to ignore the realization and label it as some sort of 'wth moment'. It's best to just share your opinions (nicely, because some are unnecessarily touchy) and stay silent when they start saying, "He sucks. He should go die or something." Because if you start getting all defensive, they'll just twist your logic even more and then you'll just lose interest in the topic altogether.

I only defend him when they give me a reason for why he sucks, i'm not new to debating, I know how. If I just see a post that says "he sucks" with no reason behind it, then I don't bother.

[charred_feather]

Oh. Well... sorry. I didn't intend that last post to be some kind of lecture. I guess it came off wrong. :P

[jasminegreen]

Oh. Well... sorry. I didn't intend that last post to be some kind of lecture. I guess it came off wrong. :P

Apology accepted. Not a problem. It's no big deal.