Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada *mild spoilers*

[doom&jellybeans]

So I just finished watching all three of these excellent titles and I just wanted to share my thoughts. I'll try to keep spoilers to a minimum or vague.

Super Dimension Fortress Macross - With all I've heard about this series and the fact I watched the Robotech version as a kid (which is quite fuzzy in my memory), It's makes me wonder why I'd never watched the original item until now. (as a side note, I have already seen Macross Plus and Macross 7. I enjoyed them very much)

Anyway...Wow! Just...wow! This series is nothing short of a masterpiece. I'm pretty sure there's not much I could say about it that hasn't already been said. The story and the characters are all very memorable. Most notably the love triangle of Hikaru, Minmei, and Misa. The scene before the final battle was real tear jerker.



Super Dimensional Calvalry Southern Cross - It may sound a bit quick on my part, but I believe this is a really underappreciated series. It deserves it's place on the same tier as Macross IMO.

Here we have a mecha tv series that did something truly bold in it's time. A female team leader. Jeanne is probably one of the coolest characters to be placed in charge of a team. Granted, she does disobey orders, but for the right reasons.

The story and characters were memorable and it played out well...until the rather rushed ending. I still say it deserves an OVA or something to finish the story up in more detail perhaps give it an epilouge.

As a less important note this series hit the nail on my body positive nude scenes criteria, so that earns it bonus points.



Genesis Climber Mospeada - It took me a while to get into this one, but once things started to pick up (such as when we got to learn more about the Inbit) it became more interesting.

The characters and story weren't quite on the level of the previous two, but it was still good. My favorite characters being Yellow - the awesome crossdressing singer, and Aisha - the inbit who dosen't know she's one, nor much about who she is.

Over all it was enjoyable and I liked the resolution to the story, however, I think it needed an epilogue of some sort.


My Conclusion - I enjoyed all three of these series, so I'm glad I bought them. Knowing that they were all adapted into Robotech makes me wonder if I should watch those versions. I know some of the continuations may be intersting just to see some of my favorite charactes again, but I wonder if it holds up? Is it worth it for a fan to own the Robotech versions, as well as the Robotech countinuations?

Is it just me or do shows like this have the feel of reading a classic sci-fi novel? Even more than any big budget Hollywood production.:P

[Mr March]

Glad to see another fan of Macross. As you can no doubt tell, I'm a big fan myself :)

You've chosen a great time to get into Macross, since the latest series (Macross Frontier) just finished up this past year and was a great success. If you liked the Macross you've seen, you definitely don't want to miss Macross Frontier.

I grew up with Robotech and enjoyed it as a child. However, when I tried it again after graduating from high school, Robotech had very little appeal. When I got back into anime in the mid-1990s, I gave Super Dimension Fortress Macross a shot and it was everything I hoped it would be and then some. For me, Robotech was disjointed, poorly edited, poorly dubbed, the dialog was broken and uneven, the Americanized changes continually took away from the whole, and so forth. Macross embraced what it was and succeeded; the Robotech edit was always trying to mitigate what Macross was and it ultimately fails because of that tampering. The Robotech edit only detracts from the original; it never seems able to add or improve it. Robotech was good enough when I didn't know any better, but after I did learn better, I couldn't stand to watch it.

I suppose ultimately, you'll have to find out for yourself. But in my humble opinion, I'd say your time is much better spent watching Macross Frontier.

At any rate, glad to hear you enjoyed Macross. Make sure to check out my Macross fansite (see my signature) and enjoy. :)

[Nigokio]

So another thread about them "Robotech" shows. In seriousness I'm glad to see that you also liked Macross as well. Though I will say that Macross is nothing short of a masterpiece I believe that Mospeada and Southern Cross aren't even GOOD shows.

I honestly really didn't like Jeanne. I never understood why an incompetent idiot like her was even a commander. Me and my brother labeled her the biggest punkass that's ever been created in an anime and it always boggled my mind at how much more competent her team was in comparison to her YET SHE WAS THE LEADER. The show itself was good at the beginning. I was really liking it, then came the late teen episodes and somehow the show fell apart on me. It overall made the show worse for me. Meh it's a 5/10 for me.

On Mospeada. Other than Bin Shimada and Hirotaka Suzuoki I didn't like this show either. It reminded me of one of those bad shows that come on Sci-Fi just cause it's Sci-Fi or because it's insanely unrealistic. I found the show boring and a chore to watch.

Oh yeah I should tell you that I've never watched Robotech past the Macross arc's episode 6 if that helps at all.

[doom&jellybeans]

Glad to see another fan of Macross. As you can no doubt tell, I'm a big fan myself :)

You've chosen a great time to get into Macross, since the latest series (Macross Frontier) just finished up this past year and was a great success. If you liked the Macross you've seen, you definitely don't want to miss Macross Frontier.

I grew up with Robotech and enjoyed it as a child. However, when I tried it again after graduating from high school, Robotech had very little appeal. When I got back into anime in the mid-1990s, I gave Super Dimension Fortress Macross a shot and it was everything I hoped it would be and then some. For me, Robotech was disjointed, poorly edited, poorly dubbed, the dialog was broken and uneven, the Americanized changes continually took away from the whole, and so forth. Macross embraced what it was and succeeded; the Robotech edit was always trying to mitigate what Macross was and it ultimately fails because of that tampering. The Robotech edit only detracts from the original; it never seems able to add or improve it. Robotech was good enough when I didn't know any better, but after I did learn better, I couldn't stand to watch it.

I suppose ultimately, you'll have to find out for yourself. But in my humble opinion, I'd say your time is much better spent watching Macross Frontier.

At any rate, glad to hear you enjoyed Macross. Make sure to check out my Macross fansite (see my signature) and enjoy. :)


Robotech was that bad, eh?

Most likely I will check out Macross Frontier very soon.

That website of yours is pretty indepth when covering the mecha. Alot of research must have gone into it.

[Mr March]

Robotech is the same as almost every time someone insists upon "adjusting" a classic (either before or after release); you end up with an inferior result. Apocalypse Now, Star Wars, Blade Runner, et cetera. Except in the case of Robotech it's worse since the intention was never to improve Macross, only edit into two other anime shows so they could attain a syndicated episode count. I actually probably wouldn't think it was such a travesty if it would have just stayed dead in the 1980's, as the cautionary tale that it is. But it keeps popping up as the big black eye of international anime :)

I'm glad you like my website. Yes, a lot of work when into my website, but I think the final result is outstanding.

Please post about Macross Frontier when you watch it. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[CrossboneGundam]

Knowing that they were all adapted into Robotech makes me wonder if I should watch those versions. I know some of the continuations may be intersting just to see some of my favorite charactes again, but I wonder if it holds up? Is it worth it for a fan to own the Robotech versions, as well as the Robotech countinuations?

Not unless you like crappy crossover fanfiction where characters from one show are children of characters from a totally unrelated show. Or like if some foreign country made Star Trek and Star Wars one universe in which Captain Kirk was Luke Skywalker's son.

Also Robotech fans are terrible people.

[doom&jellybeans]

Instead of watching Robotech, I did some research and watched clips on Youtube. The dubbing was painful enugh. It got crazier when I researched it. They made Jeanne (Dana as she's called in this version) Max and Miriya's daughter? It makes one wonder what they would have done to Macross 7. I think it's best not to ponder that question. I only got as far as Robotech Masters in my research. I decided to just not go there.

I'm currently waiting on some Macross Frontier episodes. I've been rather buisy lately, but I have found some time for the following.

I just wached the Macross movie, Do you Remember Love. My mind is officially blown. That was quite an intersting re-imagining of the story. The animation was mind blowing, as anyone who's seen it would know. Wow! it pretty much puts to shame anything coming out now.

My one question is, why has this not been liscenced in it's original form?

Next, I managed to find the Mospeada special Love Live Alive. It's pretty much a clip show with new scenes added between and at the end. It provided somewhat of an epiolugue, but left alot unexplained. I'm guessing it's up to viewer speculation.

[Mr March]

My one question is, why has this not been liscenced in it's original form?

Part of the "wonderful" result that comes from the infamous Robotech edit is the issue of international rights to Macross. The whole thing is a long, confusing, bloody mess, but the short of it is this:

Harmony Gold (the company behind Robotech) claimed to have obtained international distribution rights to SDF Macross when they did a licensing agreement with Tatsunoko Production (co-financier of SDF Macross in Japan) way back in the 1980's. As a result of this, HG was under the impression (for many, MANY years) that they owned "everything" Macross when it came to international distribution outside Japan. The result: HG threatened legal action whenever some anime distribution company got the idea to bring over more Macross to North America. HG's official "company line" is they were "indisposed" during the mid-1990's when Manga Entertainment brought over Macross II and Macross Plus without protest. However, since that time, HG has rigorously produced cease-and-desist orders against ANY company selling Macross merchandise in North America.

As you can no doubt guess, this legal wrangling sent an awful lot of international Macross fans into a nail-spitting rage against HG, for denying them the right to purchase Macross merchandise. :)

Some time in the early part of this decade (2003, I think), Big West (the Macross owners in Japan) sued Tatsunoko Production for the claim that the Macross rights had been sold to HG. A big legal battle ensued in the Japanese courts. At the end of it all, SDF Macross distribution rights remained legally sold by Tatsunoko Production, but Big West was awarded all the design rights for SDF Macross which had the ancillary benefit of solidifying Big West's ownership for DYRL and the rest of the Macross franchise. Upon hearing this, HG obtained copyright to the name "Macross" in North America and both HG and Big West have been uncomfortably quiet on the subject of Macross for the last five years. Big West continues to produce Macross product in Japan, but nothing about an international release of Macross Zero, Macross Frontier, or the rest of the franchise has been heard. Nothing.

Which brings us to the now :)

[doom&jellybeans]

After reading that, I'm beginning to dislike harmony Gold.

Anyway, I just watched the first ten episodes of Frontier. It's excellent so far. I'm liking the story and characters, especially Sheryl :naughty:

They're really playing up the nostalgia in this one. I like that. There's alot of references to past series. Not to mention songs from previous series. It's like the whole Macross universe comes togeather in this one.

In episode 2, The Alto rescuing Ranka scene was very similar to Hikaru's rescue of Minmei early on. Of course I couldn't help but get the idea that Ranka's going to be the Minmei of this series, or atleast play a similar role.

Some of the characters are like modernised versions of previous ones. I'm pretty sure Catherine Glass = Misa Hayase.

episode 10 reminded me, I still need to watch Macross Zero. So after Frontier, I'll have to check it out.

finally some cameos of characters from previous Macross series would definitely add alot of exitement. It makes me think of how I was expecting a Basara/Minmei duet somewhere in Macross 7, which never happened. Well, Maybe we'll get something equivalnet to that in this series.

[Mr March]

Well, you should make up your own mind about HG. The whole situation isn't necessarily their fault. The SDF Macross rights were obviously a problem that began in Japan between Tatsunoko Production and Big West. If that deal had never been, HG have needed to go through Big West to obtain SDF Macross and Big West would have been far more protective of their property than Tatsunoko.

But this is all coming from me, a Macross fan, so there is inherently some bias. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong :)

Granted, I do hold HG responsible for their litigious actions after the fact, of which all those legal actions have amounted to precious little in the long run. The very reasons HG had for being so litigious (fear of consumer confusion between Robotech/Macross negatively impacting sales of Robotech) never actually happened. Many years later, it was HG who gave permission to release the unedited Animeigo DVDs of SDF Macross to North America (and most recently, SDF Macross released under ADV Films). So really, all the legal crap was just a lot of wasted time and effort that has done nothing but hurt/delay consumer choice.

Anyway...

Macross Frontier is a lot of fun and a great viewing for the long time Macross fan. Plenty of homages and tips-of-the-hat to previous Macross shows. It is a very cohesive series that combines a lot of past Macross into a grand celebration of the franchise. No coincidence that it was the 25th Anniversary of the franchise :)

Yes, some of the characters are done in a similar vein of the original series. Ozma is much like Roy, Mikhail is much like Max, Alto is much like Hikaru and so on. But a lot of the similarities are due to a similar format. Macross Frontier is a Macross show, much like Gundam 00 is a Gundam show. This inherently means that some familiarity is inevitable. Even Macross Plus, which was the most divergent and different series of the franchise, had character similarities (Sharon Apple was Minmay, Kate was Claudia, etc).

Catherine is reminiscent of Misa as far as character design, but they don't seem to have much else in common other than the virtue of both being women in the military.

Well, I hope you enjoy the series. Post some more thoughts as you watch it.

[Cyborg 002]

Hi Gang.

Is Genisis Climber Mospeada the japanese version of the americanized series named Generation's in America?

[Arnold]

Yep.

Superdimension Fortress Macross --> Macross Saga (duh)
Superdimension Cavalry Southern Cross --> Robotech Masters
Genesis Climber Mospeada --> Robotech: The Next Generation

[Cyborg 002]

Thanks for the info.

[doom&jellybeans]

I just finished watching Frontier. It was excellent.

*spoilers ahead*

Watching a little more into it, the similarities between characters of each series become more obvious, as well as their individual identities. Not to mention scenes that are like history repeating it's self.

If I remember correctly it was episode 17, that placed Ozma in a role similar to Roy's final moments (One of the saddest moments of the original). Then took a twist at the end.

The saddest moment of the series I thought was Mikhail's final scene which came a few episodes later.

I'm really not sure of leaving the love triangle of Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka unresolved. I guess there must be plans for a countinuation or this is just this series' style. Leaving us with an open ending.

The final couple of episodes featured some amazing musical moments. While the use of opening credit sequences might have seemed like they were saving on the animation budget, they worked extremely well.

Teh openings were definitely excellent. My fave being the one running from ep 18 on. It really seemed to sum up the tone of the later episodes.

In relation to the series' style comment I made, I've noticed each Macross series has a distinct style to it while retaining some common elements. The theme of music reaching people and being able to create peace being a personal fave. So obviously I'm in the minority of people who loved Macross 7. From what I've seen (all 3 tv series, DYRL, and Plus) it's all good.

The question I'm left with is, I've never taken the time to go back and check the dates on when everything happens. Is there some sort of Macross timeline anyone's bothered to put togeather?




On another note that statement about not liking Harmony Gold was purely based off of their blocking of Macross titles. Now that I look at it, I see how complicated it all is, but if they know the fans are out there, why not license the other titles themselves? Or might that be another complicated issue altogeather?

[ZeroRyoko1974]

Found this on some other Macross site. I know they recently celebrated the launch date of Macross recently in Japan. I think it was in Febuary.


Anime Production Dates of Release

The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (36 episode television series, 1982)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? (film, 1984)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Flashback 2012 (music video, 1987)
Macross II: Lovers Again (6 episode OVA, 1992)
Macross Plus (4 episode OVA, 1994)
Macross 7 (49 episode television series, 1994)
Macross 7: The Galaxy's Calling Me! (short film, 1995)
Macross 7 Encore (3 additional television episodes, 1995)
Macross Plus Movie Edition (film, 1995)
Macross Dynamite 7 (4 episode OVA, 1997)
Macross Zero (5 episode OVA, 2002-2004)
Macross Frontier (television series, 2008)





Timeline

Macross Zero (AD 2008)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (AD 1999-2012)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Flashback 2012 (AD 2012)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? (AD 2031 or 2009)
Macross M3 (AD 2014-2030)
Macross Plus (AD 2040)
Macross 7 (AD 2045-2046)
Macross 7: The Galay's Calling Me! (AD January 2046)
Macross Dynamite 7 (AD 2047)
Macross Digital Mission VF-X (AD 2047)
Macross Digital Mission VF-X2 (AD 2050)
Macross Frontier (AD 2059)

Macross II: Lovers Again (AD 2092 - Parallel World)

[doom&jellybeans]

Timeline

Macross Zero (AD 2008)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (AD 1999-2012)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Flashback 2012 (AD 2012)
The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? (AD 2031 or 2009)
Macross M3 (AD 2014-2030)
Macross Plus (AD 2040)
Macross 7 (AD 2045-2046)
Macross 7: The Galay's Calling Me! (AD January 2046)
Macross Dynamite 7 (AD 2047)
Macross Digital Mission VF-X (AD 2047)
Macross Digital Mission VF-X2 (AD 2050)
Macross Frontier (AD 2059)

Macross II: Lovers Again (AD 2092 - Parallel World)[/QUOTE]

Now that's what I was wondering about. Thanks.

I was crious about what happened when to find out if various characters could in fact meet somehow. Also if their musical careers where still going.

I'm certain by the time Frontier takes place, Minmei is well into retirement.

To think about it realistically, by the time Frontier takes place, it wouldn't be surprising to see Firebomber out there still making music. I mean think about all the rock bands in real life that keep their career going for 30+ years. Not to mention that Basara seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't retire under any circumstances.

It would have been an awesome way to end Frontier with Sheryl and Ranka singing a duet with Firebomber playing the music. A bit of a Macross 7/ Frontier crossover. Maybe it would make a great OVA to follow the series up with.

Although I couldn't help but brainstorm what would have happened if this crossover happened in the later half of Frontier. It basically ended up being Macross Frontier: Nobody dies version, but I'll refrain from explaining it and in the process inspiring thousands of fan fics.:P

[Domburi]

Genesis Climber Mospeada - It took me a while to get into this one, but once things started to pick up (such as when we got to learn more about the Inbit) it became more interesting.

P

Hello,

Is it the new Mospeada or the old one?
I found an AMV of what seems to be a recent version of Mospeada but I don't know the title of it?

I tried typing the old name but I keep on getting the old Mospeada?
Glad to meet another Macross FAN :P

[doom&jellybeans]

Hello,

Is it the new Mospeada or the old one?
I found an AMV of what seems to be a recent version of Mospeada but I don't know the title of it?

I tried typing the old name but I keep on getting the old Mospeada?
Glad to meet another Macross FAN :P

I'm pretty sure the AMV was probably from the Robotech: Shadow Chronicles movie since it has alot of Mospeada characters (Actually just the Robotech versions of those characters).

As far as I know there's no official new version of Mospeada, but that would be interesting.

[CrossboneGundam]

Knowing that they were all adapted into Robotech makes me wonder if I should watch those versions. I know some of the continuations may be intersting just to see some of my favorite charactes again, but I wonder if it holds up? Is it worth it for a fan to own the Robotech versions, as well as the Robotech countinuations?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm certain by the time Frontier takes place, Minmei is well into retirement.

No, she vanished without a trace along with the rest of the crew (Hikaru and Misa) and passengers aboard the SDF-2 Megaroad shortly after the end of Macross.

That's why the Zentradi guy who was in charge of the mercenary company from Frontier was part of the conspiracy, he wanted to use the Vajra's hivemind to find Minmay.

[Domburi]

Robotech shadow chronicles then? Thanks ;)
It looked like it was made recently, with some 3D stuff in it.

What is the Japanese name for the series? Shadow Chronicles?

[doom&jellybeans]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

lol. I never bothered to actually bothered to watch those. I just know of their existance.

No, she vanished without a trace along with the rest of the crew (Hikaru and Misa) and passengers aboard the SDF-2 Megaroad shortly after the end of Macross.

That's why the Zentradi guy who was in charge of the mercenary company from Frontier was part of the conspiracy, he wanted to use the Vajra's hivemind to find Minmay.

This was in episode 12, am I right? For some reason this was left unsubbed by the fansubbing group I acquired it from. Maybe my media player couldn't play the subs. I somehow doubt that considering all the other episodes worked perfectly.

[doom&jellybeans]

Robotech shadow chronicles then? Thanks ;)
It looked like it was made recently, with some 3D stuff in it.

What is the Japanese name for the series? Shadow Chronicles?

I don't think there was a Japanese name for it. I'm pretty sure it was specifically created as a Robotech movie.

[Suiko Eiji]

I don't think there was a Japanese name for it. I'm pretty sure it was specifically created as a Robotech movie.

Indeed; Harmony Gold outsourced to a Korean animation studio to have the film produced. Not bad, not great. People who'd actually seen the Invid Arc of Robotech enjoyed it a lot more than I did.

Working my way through Mospeada right now, actually. Thinking about incorporating some jokes about Top Gear's Stig into a convention panel if I use some Genesis Climber footage...

[Domburi]

Thanks, I managed to find it last night, indeed very mechanic and very static as well, looks way to artificial. Not really exciting compared to Macross, the characters are very sober.

Still haven't finished watching Macross F. :naughty: