The economic crisis is over!

[taily]

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/should_irs_tax_virtual_economies
According to Taxpayer Advocate Nina Olson, the International Revenue Service should start taxing the economies of Second Life, World of Warcraft and other virtual worlds. In an annual report posted on the IRS website, Olsen has stated that there are a number of issues that the IRS should address before they get out of control.

"Economic activities associated with virtual worlds may present an emerging area of noncompliance, in part, because the IRS has not issued guidance about whether and how taxpayers should report such activities," Olson writes in her report. Alongside that, she identifies that almost all income is subject to taxation, even prizes and winnings.

This isn’t the first time this issue has been mentioned, though. Since 2003 people both on and offline have looked ad the taxation of virtual economies and Dan Miller, a senior economist for the congressional Joint Economic Committee, has started playing with the idea of taxing MMORPGs after he’d taken a step into online gaming.

With any luck, this won’t come full circle. It would be a huge burden on taxpayers, having to report their every move in World of Warcraft to Uncle Sam, but who would really want to get caught up in paperwork just to play a video game?

The goverment can buy us all magick spells.

[Shiroiyuki]

When did the prizes and winnings gained from a video game become income? Isn't it still part of the virtual world? Can you like...type in your card number and get some kind of credit balance? Maybe take that Sword of Truth or whatever and go buy some groceries?

No? :| I'm glad I no longer play Final Fantasy XI if they're gonna be pricks about it.

I do think they should tax Second Life though. Those people need some kind of backlash from the government.

[Old Ape Face]

Second Life sounds more plausible to tax then World of Warcraft, considering it has the potential to produce real world revenue while WoW, is just a game. I can't see how you can make money off od WoW unless you run (an illegal) Gold selling business, or you level up other player's character for a fee (also ilegal).

There is no profit sharing coming out of WoW, just a game card (that already has a tax on it)

Next thing you know they're going to tax pokemon and Counter Strike or Brawl.

500 dollars for each battle you win against the Elite Four, and you have to pay becuase we're poor.

You know how you get in game money from Counter Strike? Well you get real money now but you can't use it becuase it's all going in your taxes.

You want to watch a movie? That's 5 bucks to the government pal, yeah we don't like it when you watch movies for free you have to pay something.

**** I got to buy groceries, but all my money went to the taxes and my game ****!!!!.

[Lacan]

Our Government is retarded, when is there going to be a revolution, where smart people take over our country instead of idiots running it now?

Pretty soon people would be sent to jail for not paying their taxes by collecting a thousands of coins in Super Mario Bros to get a bunch of 1ups.

Also Added: The children of the future better fix this country and put in smart people and don't repeat pass mistakes.

[Ikari Warrior]

I think a couple of you may be misunderstanding. I agree with Shiro and (somewhat) Yuki on this one.

Taxing virtual money would be stupid and pointless, we all know that. Why in the hell would the government care how many planes and how much money I have in Ace Combat 6? Are they going to bust into my house and search for WMD's because of all the guns I have in Gears of War? Let's try not to blow this out of proportion, people.

What I think the article is specifically referencing is using real money to buy virtual items. For example, I sell my +9 Ogre Slaying Knife to Shiroiyuki at the cost of $20. Twenty REAL American Dollars. That's income that I should have to make accountable to the IRS.

Of course Shiroiyuki isn't stupid enough to ACTUALLY buy a virtual item with real money, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, Shiro is (in the above hypothetical situation) paying me for downloadable content. Instead of getting it from Blizzard or Microsoft, she got it from me. I'm sure companies that sell DLC have to report that income somehow. It makes perfect sense that if I start peddling my virtual wares, I should have to report that income, too.

This might actually do a lot of good to kill gold spammers on MMOs, if they have to report their earnings on what is essentially illegal anyway. This applies to Second Life, too, which may or may not have the same sort of problem.

The question of taxing users on actual sale of virtual property can also be begged of taxing the sale of actual goods. Is the money you make from selling something on ebay a viable subject of taxation by the Federal Government? I think they need to address that first of all, before talking about taxing Virtual Economies.

[Syraxis]

I think that the only services affected by this "tax" are gold sellers. But anyone with experience in World of Warcraft post first expansion can safely say that if you buy gold, you're either extremely lazy or a moron.

You can make 20 gold in minutes by just killing normal mobs in outlands. But I imagine that Wrath of the Lich King made it even easier. Don't know, quit mid last year.

But this plan sounds just like another poorly thought out idea by the government among many others to try and help the economy, just like loaning billions to the auto industry. It's not going to make their cars any better and it won't help to sell them cheaper either, only prolonging the pretty much inevitable.

[Old Ape Face]

I think that the only services affected by this "tax" are gold sellers. But anyone with experience in World of Warcraft post first expansion can safely say that if you buy gold, you're extremely lazy.

You can make 20 gold in minutes by just killing normal mobs in outlands.

If you make it to Outlands of cource

[Gibb]

There are lots of people who make money from MMOs, real life money, so maybe that's what they're referring to. Several years ago I made $60 selling some Diablo II items on ebay haha. I haven't done anything like that since then, since it's illegal now and people usually have their gaming accounts closed for such things.

Still, it's really common for people to raise up characters in WoW or other MMOs then sell them for lots of money. The guy who has 27 accounts in WoW makes decent bank if I remember correctly.

[Gray]

When I was in High Sschool I started getting into 3D Modelling and Animation. After that I started advancing into areas of Graphic Design and some basic Coding. I mostly worked on 3rd party mods just as a fun hobby untill a friend sent me a link about Second Life so I checked it out. Most of the 'rumors' are true, there are alot of really depraved people around, the only real way to stay out of it is to not visit anywhere else. Anyway I started making some 3D work for it and selling it inworld, that was about a year ago and i've been making a steady flow of about 1000$ per month in USD. (thats real currency folks) I already have a job, so thats 1 grand that I pocket each month (from playing a video game) to spend on whatever I want.

[Old Ape Face]

When I was in High Sschool I started getting into 3D Modelling and Animation. After that I started advancing into areas of Graphic Design and some basic Coding. I mostly worked on 3rd party mods just as a fun hobby untill a friend sent me a link about Second Life so I checked it out. Most of the 'rumors' are true, there are alot of really depraved people around, the only real way to stay out of it is to not visit anywhere else. Anyway I started making some 3D work for it and selling it inworld, that was about a year ago and i've been making a steady flow of about 1000$ per month in USD. (thats real currency folks) I already have a job, so thats 1 grand that I pocket each month (from playing a video game) to spend on whatever I want.

That was the soul purpose I found interest in Second Life, I too was going to school for graphic design and even took a class in 3d modeling, and thought "wow this sounds too good to be true. An internet community based on the very classes that I've been taking for the past 4-5 years, and the best thing about it, I can make everything and sell it."

Unfortunately it turned into a trap for me, I got too snoopy with the rumors, and now I'm a bit out of shape with my graphic design skills thanks to Second Life.

My conclusion, if you are planing to get into graphic design don't start it with Second Life...

Now that I've derailed the thread into a discussion about Second Life. Let's get back on track.

[Vaikyuko]

On the note of online purchases, there are also states that aren't taxed on online purchases; Florida (where I live) is one such example. Likely there's literal millions of potential tax dollars being lost simply because there's no tax on internet sales here, even through retailers like Amazon.

In other states, there are. Why haven't they implemented it universally? I'm not sure. That said, it'd probably be the quickest and least expensive setup in terms of getting everything in order, and it wouldn't make a massive difference since places like Amazon usually have games (what I pretty much buy exclusively there now) for much cheaper than retail. Add in free shipping on over $25 orders and no tax and it's stupid not to buy from places like that.

If the taxes were implemented, the price difference between IRL stores and online stores would shrink a little (albeit not much), but enough to have a positive effect.

[waltsoph3]

:huh:......you have got to be kidding me.....

Sorry while i go Denis Leary on this....

What the freak! I'll just say this in the great words of Don king...

"only in america"


No? :| I'm glad I no longer play Final Fantasy XI if they're gonna be pricks about it.



Intresting enough i use to play that too. Very addicting game. I dont play it anymore because of the fact i realized i had to put the controller down. Trust me it was that addicting when your into crafting and making items. I loved doing that..its a fun struggle but when you make life saving items for others the hard work pays off. (honest to god did it all with my own hard earned gil)^_^

Yet one thing that still dispises me to this day..gil sellers. Thats basicaly the term for people earning fake money on FF11 and converting it into real life cash. They ruined the game.

Its against the rules like many online games. And a main prob is how many people gil sell not just FF11 but on other sites. Like some of ya said just look at ebay.Buy accounts, game curency..ect. I truly wonder how many servers actually take the time to police these problems. Not many ill say that. You can make real money from them. Yet people got away with it for years. But back on track....

Can you imagine IRS going after not your parents...but kids....little kids that play online games and being taxed with RL money from game currency in a game that they must pay up.

I sure hate to be anyone playing yugioh online..because in that game you have to use RL currency just to get game currency money to spend. Thats the only way you could earn it.
Thats not even counting the pay a point garbage just to play a RL player or i kid you not a NPC. :mad: Garbage.

Heck this isnt the first time ive heard a little kid getting taxed. A while back there was this story about a little kid being hounded from the IRS. Wanna know why? Because of back taxs owed on his bicycle he got. I forget the amount but it was rediculous. Im not making this up.



On the note of online purchases, there are also states that aren't taxed on online purchases; Florida (where I live) is one such example. Likely there's literal millions of potential tax dollars being lost simply because there's no tax on internet sales here, even through retailers like Amazon.

In other states, there are. Why haven't they implemented it universally?
If the taxes were implemented, the price difference between IRL stores and online stores would shrink a little (albeit not much), but enough to have a positive effect.

Positive? I personaly belive that would be negitive effect. Btw you may soon get your wish if this happens. This is a story about potentail online store taxs for all parts of the US when it comes to stores.

heres the story:
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Business/b0433-BC-TEC-Internet-SalesTa-Adv13-01-09-1355

For starts lets see here..What would it be worth saving more money if this happens..
online shoping or..go do real life shopping...hmm lets see....

Shoping online-
1 click to put items in a cart
2. Get the final total cost.
3. Get the shipping cost( rember the more heavy a package..the more pricey it is)
4. Get the tax cost ( btw what would that be? Doesnt sales tax climb up with the more money you spend on that store? )
5. Bam your done now wait a couple of days(unless you paid for bling bling express mail) just to get your item.

Shoping in real life
1. Get transportation and use some gas.(oops then again...gas might go up to 8.00 by summer from what ive heard in rumors)
2. Find your item and check out.
3. Pay for the total cost with sales tax. Bam got your item and your on your way home.

Bottomline: This is horrable!! Both of these dont solve our economic problems. Infact they make it worse! I see only one outcome...more jobs lossed,more bussness's( espically online stores) shut down, ebay sellers are screwed(after all rember those FVF's theyll have to pay the taxs somehow) noone will even play online games( espicaly Xbox fans..rember how much xbox live costs? ) unles they some how lower subscription fees or..just tax for the fee itself only.

Gee..its sad to say this but figuring this out is so easy a caveman can do it.
Thanks for the story. :) and if you guys want to use my story link for another topic then by all meens go for it. thx u all.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Our Government is retarded, when is there going to be a revolution, where smart people take over our country instead of idiots running it now?

When they stop letting dumb people vote, so never.

[MirKz]

No offense to American's, but if that's your guys sayin that crap. It doesn't surprise me.. you're run by idiots.

Not sayin we don't have twats here in Aus aswell, cause we sure do, but taxing video games.. pathetic... anyone ? I mean... hell.. they ALREADY do.. when it's sold. Wankers.

[Bernard_Monsha]

No offense to American's, but if that's your guys sayin that crap. It doesn't surprise me.. you're run by idiots.

Not sayin we don't have twats here in Aus aswell, cause we sure do, but taxing video games.. pathetic... anyone ? I mean... hell.. they ALREADY do.. when it's sold. Wankers.


Well your PM managed to put you in a pretty good position recession wise. We had 16 years of borrow and spend to run up the debt now we are getting even more borrow and more spend to pay it off. Did I ever mention how stupid our government is?

[goddessofanime]

I don't play SL or WOW or those type of games anyway...

[MirKz]

I don't really follow politics :P

[waltsoph3]

I don't really follow politics :P

Honestly i would say the same thing myself but somtimes like al pachino once said from the godfather 3.

Just when im out..they pull me back in. :uhh:


On another note..do you think this thread should be moved to the video game thread since it does concern online gamers? Just wondering.