Honda to exit F1 by end of year

[loplop]

I know there are a few F1 fans around here, Just saw this in the Japan Times . . . .

Honda Motor Co. said Friday it will withdraw from Formula One by the end of this year, making 2008 its last season in F1 motor racing, because its business conditions rapidly deteriorated amid the worldwide economic downturn.

The entire article . . . http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20081206n1.html

[Black Cat]

they may as well just take everyone off F1 and just leave Ferrari and McLaren since they're the only ones that matter

[Caster13]

And Red Bull and Force India are staying? Something's wrong here.

[Nakey]

And Red Bull and Force India are staying? Something's wrong here.

Red Bull and Force India aren't losing money on car production....

[Caster13]

All car manufacturers are. Even Ferrari.

Still, Honda has been around for a long time. This is surprising.

[HSaabedra]

All car manufacturers are. Even Ferrari.

Still, Honda has been around for a long time. This is surprising.

Ferrari isn't losing money on F1 the way Honda was. Honda went from engine supplier to team owner in 2000 when they bought a controlling stake in British American Racing, which turned into Honda Racing and the Super Aguri B team in 2005.

Toyota and Honda both were dumping hundreds of millions into works teams that haven't paid off as quickly as they thought it would. I won't be surprised if TTE is shut down within the next few weeks and Toyota decides to pull out as well, since they pretty much repeated the GT-one fiasco of the late 90's and have more of a competitive and PR advantage in NASCAR.

[Caster13]

and have more of a competitive and PR advantage in NASCAR.

I may be taking this too far, but if that kind of stuff starts to happen, NASCAR might start to go global eventually. And that would be very, very bad.

[Nakey]

All car manufacturers are. Even Ferrari.

you're missing the vital point.

Ferrari, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Renault. they're all car manufacturers. While Mclaren run the MB team and Sauber run the BMW team, both car manufacturers have invested a great deal of resources to run their respective teams

Williams, RBR, STR, and Force India aren't car manufacturers. at best, they're just customers for the engine company. Super Aguri was effectively Honda's B team (and he should have stayed in Super GT).

I may be taking this too far, but if that kind of stuff starts to happen, NASCAR might start to go global eventually. And that would be very, very bad.

Yeah, fat chance of that happening. Not with Touring Car and GT racing taking over Europe, and Toyota not being part of the V8 Supercar scene down here. Outside of NASCAR, Australian Rally (i don't think the Corolla 2000P Rally car is homologated for championships apart from ARC), and Super GT (of which, the cars don't comply with GT2), they don't seem to race much.

All Humberto's talking about is that they've got far more recognition in NASCAR racing than F1. The cancellation of the Rally program in favour of an F1 push hasn't done as well as expected.

combine that with the current economic crisis, and i agree with Humberto.

[HSaabedra]

Yeah, fat chance of that happening. Not with Touring Car and GT racing taking over Europe, and Toyota not being part of the V8 Supercar scene down here. Outside of NASCAR, Australian Rally (i don't think the Corolla 2000P Rally car is homologated for championships apart from ARC), and Super GT (of which, the cars don't comply with FIA/ACO GT2), they don't seem to race much.

They really don't do much racing outside the major categories because its a huge R&D sink and homologation just isn't worth the manufacturing and PR expense that it used to be.

Also consider that F1 is worthless for the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" maxim now and you have the series spiraling into irrelevance with the average person.

NASCAR resonates with everybody in the US because its all about the personalities behind the wheel and not the car, in contrast to F1.

All Humberto's talking about is that they've got far more recognition in NASCAR racing than F1. The cancellation of the Rally program in favour of an F1 push hasn't done as well as expected.

Combine that with the current economic crisis, and i agree with Humberto.

NASCAR has no plans to go global, especially since they have a testing and development freeze for next year. The one racing series that was once thought to have unlimited growth potential after using The Split to their advantage is reeling hard from the crisis and the potential collapse of the Big Three.

[Caster13]

Not with Touring Car and GT racing taking over Europe

I know practically nothing about those. I know a little about GT racing from reading Forza, but nothing else. And I've heard the name Touring Car like...twice. And I wouldn't know where to begin on learning about any of them.

Sadly this is what happens when you live in the US and all that's on TV is NASCAR.

[Nakey]

NASCAR resonates with everybody in the US because its all about the personalities behind the wheel and not the car, in contrast to F1.

Clearly, cause they all look the same to me =__=

love the racing though, more so when they're not on ovals.

[Ornette]

All car manufacturers are. Even Ferrari.

Still, Honda has been around for a long time. This is surprising.
Nobody makes a profit from their F1 expenditures, but not all the manufactures are in the red:

Maranello, October 27th, 2008 - The Board of Directors of Ferrari SpA met today under the chairmanship of Luca di Montezemolo, to examine the third quarter results. Ferrari recorded 450 million in revenues (up 22.3 percent year-over-year), and a trading profit of 79 million (17.6 percent of revenues), up 41.1 percent from the 56 million figure (15.2 percent of revenues) for Q3 2007.

[Caster13]

^...oooooookay. There goes my thinking right down the toilet. hehehe...-_-;

Well, it's true that Ferrari IS in a class all of their own. They've been around since F1 started, and, well........it's Ferrari. They'll always make a profit.

But, I found out that a lot of people who own the cars are selling them back because they're going broke because of the economy, and there's a problem with what to do with all of the extra cars that are being sold back. That's why I came to that conclusion.

[Ornette]

Yeah, I'm pretty curious about their business plan and how they even make profits back when the economy was doing good. They dump hundreds of millions into R&D, F1, and other things, yet they sell a handful of cars (expensive cars) a year and make a profit. I'm sure they're making money elsewhere, they'd have to be (branding maybe? the Ferrari brand IS pretty popular, no less due to their great racing heritage).

BTW, that was a statement sent by the board of directors to the FIA when the FIA was pushing for standardized engines to reduce costs during a poor economy. Their reply was pretty much: "that's great that you guys are doing well, but many teams are deep in the hole".

[Caster13]

Actually they make and sell well over 6000 cars a year. Plus there are huge waiting lists for them. If you want a brand new car without paying over sticker it takes anywhere from 2 to 4 years. But if you have a car already the wait is a lot shorter. So if you were to get very rich one day and could afford one your best shot would be to buy a used one first. You could buy a current model because some people will buy them and then sell them because their not satisfied......and that they have that much money.

I'm a total Ferrari fanatic. Now back to topic.

[Nakey]

Yeah, I'm pretty curious about their business plan and how they even make profits back when the economy was doing good. They dump hundreds of millions into R&D, F1, and other things, yet they sell a handful of cars (expensive cars) a year and make a profit. I'm sure they're making money elsewhere, they'd have to be (branding maybe? the Ferrari brand IS pretty popular, no less due to their great racing heritage).

You forget, this is Ferrari. the only reason Ferrari is selling cars is to fund their racing.

Secondly it's not a handful of cars. the halo models (F40, F50, Enzo), yes there's only a handful (Enzo decreed that there be one less car than demand). but the other cars, there's more than a handful

Last i heard, there's a 3 year wait for the California, and a 7 year wait for the F430

Branding is a big earner, but not as much as the waiting list for the 2 lowest spec cars....

[HSaabedra]

You forget, this is Ferrari. the only reason Ferrari is selling cars is to fund their racing.

Secondly it's not a handful of cars. the halo models (F40, F50, Enzo), yes there's only a handful (Enzo decreed that there be one less car than demand). but the other cars, there's more than a handful

Last i heard, there's a 3 year wait for the California, and a 7 year wait for the F430

Branding is a big earner, but not as much as the waiting list for the 2 lowest spec cars....

I can confirm the above to be true, though Risi Competizione in Houston TX will make exceptions based on relationship length and/or proven driving ability. In fact he rarely sells to celebrities unless a prior relationship has been established beforehand, which is why he sold off his dealership in Dallas.

[Ornette]

Sorry, to clarify, I meant "handful" as in when you compare it to the bigger makers (specifically in relation to Honda). I'm aware that their cars are in high demand and the restrictions involved in being able to buy them (especially the highiest end models).

I realize that Honda is probably also a well run company, but if they're losing money, to the point where they're not able to dump the required money into a competitive F1 team at monetary paper loss, I sometimes wonder what Ferrari are doing right that Honda isn't. I also realized I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it still makes me wonder.

[HSaabedra]

I realize that Honda is probably also a well run company, but if they're losing money, to the point where they're not able to dump the required money into a competitive F1 team at monetary paper loss, I sometimes wonder what Ferrari are doing right that Honda isn't. I also realized I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it still makes me wonder.

Honda's motorsport budget is split between junior formulae, touring car, motorcycles, motocross, and the IRL. That's where the losses come from on top of the economy and lack of third-party sponsors

In contrast, Ferrari solely focuses its competitive efforts on Formula 1 with a longstanding partner in Philip Morris (tobacco sponsorships used to be the cornerstone of funding before anti-tobacco legislation).

[Caster13]

I can confirm the above to be true, though Risi Competizione in Houston TX will make exceptions based on relationship length and/or proven driving ability. In fact he rarely sells to celebrities unless a prior relationship has been established beforehand, which is why he sold off his dealership in Dallas.

Now THAT sounds like my kind of guy!:thumbsup: We do not need anymore Stefan Erikssons on the road.

I'm so glad he's in jail.

[Nakey]

In contrast, Ferrari solely focuses its competitive efforts on Formula 1 with a longstanding partner in Philip Morris (tobacco sponsorships used to be the cornerstone of funding before anti-tobacco legislation).

Not totally "solely". they do the one make Ferrari Challenge with F430 Challenge, the A1GP cars are now Ferrari chassis and engines, and GT racing with the F430 GT2 and F430 GT3


By the same token, there's more Honda involved Junior Formulae than there are teams fielding the F430 GT2. Super GT in japan is a big spender, as well as them 2L touring car series over in Europe. I'm pretty sure they run a Super Taikyuu car too....

Let's not forget, as Humberto mentioned, IRL (Hueg), Motorcross (Hueg) and Motorcycle (epicly Hueg)

[Nakey]

Double post

http://www.f1technical.net/news/11253

i hope Slavica rapes him for all he has.

[Ornette]

wow, that's harsh

[Caster13]

*reads link and sees something* Hey South Africa wants a grand prix again. That's ok and all....but how about AMERICA getting a race again!!?

[Ornette]

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/showsports.aspx?id=SPOEN20080078013

[Nakey]

i wanted prodrive to get this.

this, i feel, will be another Wolf...

EDIT: and as funny as it is, after that card that he sent out to all the team principals, i do hope Slavica bends him over and rapes him with Excalibolg, financially speaking.... Obviously after Slavica molests Mosley's arse with it too....

[loplop]

Carlos Slim was the same SOB that has bankrupted several companies as of late to take a profit. He's almost as bad as Carl Icahn about buying up companies and striping everything of value from them and then letting them go bust. I really don't want to see someone of his ilk with a team . . .

[HSaabedra]

Carlos Slim was the same SOB that has bankrupted several companies as of late to take a profit.

At least Slim can run a company, while Icahn just sits on BoDs looking like a useless dipshit with no sense

He regretted ever buying CompUSA after finding out that there was no way to save the current infrastructure without losing money and he runs one of the most successful telecom operations in Mexico and Latin America to the tune of hundreds of millions in pure profit.

The reason he bought the team was so that Mexican drivers could have a shot at F1 again and so that the new course in Cancun could have a reason for being built after stalling out.

Prodrive had to pull out of negotiations because they took on more losses as a result of shutting down WRC operations.

[Ornette]

They're back. Ross Brawn now owns the team.

[Nakey]

They're back. Ross Brawn now owns the team.

link plz?
<10char>

[HSaabedra]

link plz?
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SPEEDTV Exclusive: Brawn GP Replaces Honda (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-brawn-gp-replaces-honda/)

[loplop]

Being so busy at work this week I missed that one. That could be interesting . . .