2nd Amendment and Natural Selection

[Bernard_Monsha]

or You should never bring a bb gun to a shotgun fight.

Homeowner Shoots And Kills 19-Year-Old In Self-Defense (http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=9096658&ClientType=Printable)

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Police said a homeowner shot in self-defense when armed suspects tried to rob him overnight.

Shortly before 10:30 p.m. Monday, 67-year-old Douglas Dabbs pulled into his driveway on Tobylynn Drive and was getting out of his pickup truck when two armed men came up to him and tried to rob him. The two men were identified as Nibeyu Demissew Yosef and Jermichael Jerome Burgy.

Armed with BB guns the two men demanded money from Dabbs. Dabbs said he reached into the console of his truck, retrieved a handgun that fires .410 shotgun rounds and opened fire on the two robbers.

Yosef, 19, was wounded and transported by ambulance to Southern Hills Medical Center where he died shortly after arriving.

Burgy, 23, took off after the shooting, but police later tracked him down at Southern Hills where he was recovering from a non-critical gunshot wound to the head. Police said that Burgy admitted to being with Yosef during the robbery attempt, so police charged him with attempted aggravated robbery.

Police also said that Dabbs does not have a handgun carrying permit, but no charges against the homeowner were anticipated.

Burgy has been lodged in lieu of $80,000 bond. A convicted felon, Burgy had previously been found guilty of aggravated assault in 2006 and has been on probation for that offense. Burgy also has convictions for unlawful gun possession and driving without a license.

Yosef had been issued a total of four state misdemeanor citations in 2007 and 2008 for driving without a valid license.

Police said they were looking into whether this overnight robbery may have been linked

[Vaikyuko]

This amuses me intensely.

[animeotaku99]

Second one got lucky. I feel bad for anyone who tries to bnreak into our apartment or cars or pull a gun on me.
I should note that it is doubtful that the home owner know the intruders only had BB guns

[The Million Dollar Prons]

You can arm a handgun with shotgun shells? Hot damn.

[Soluzar]

You can arm a handgun with shotgun shells? Hot damn.
That was one of the first things I thought... it sounds like it would be quite powerful. I dare say there are drawbacks though. Such as the fact that it's probably not accurate beyond point-blank range.

I should note that it is doubtful that the home owner know the intruders only had BB guns
I must agree. I've seen plenty of BB guns that look like exact replicas of real handguns, and in the dark, how could you ever tell the difference. It's not like he'd want to wait and get shot so he could tell what kind of gun it was.

[Jatz]

As for that second guy it's a good thing he was shot in the head, there was nothing important there to hit.
I must agree. I've seen plenty of BB guns that look like exact replicas of real handguns, and in the dark, how could you ever tell the difference. It's not like he'd want to wait and get shot so he could tell what kind of gun it was.

This is probably what they were hoping for, "He'll think we have real guns and we don't have to pay several hundred dollars for the real thing."

[Undrave]

If I had a stupid name like Jermichael I would turn to crime too.

[Tidusauron12]

If I had a stupid name like Jermichael I would turn to crime too.

This should be sigged. :lol:

[Undrave]

Seriously, at best Jermichael is a middle name, not a FIRST name!

[earsofdoom]

Judgeing by the fact one was killed while the other was shot in the head It seems like the mans intent wasn't just to defend himself but rather to kill also (it just sound's like he was going for fatal shots) which i do find a bit disturbing. not that i think the man was wrong in defending himself but at point blank range he should have been more then able to do non-fatal shots to at least give them a chance of survival but then again i have a bit higher respect for life then others. (yes even criminal's)

[CrossboneGundam]

The first guy's name sounds african, you'd think an african would know how to steal, rape and pillage with the aid of proper firearms.

[animeotaku99]

Judgeing by the fact one was killed while the other was shot in the head It seems like the mans intent wasn't just to defend himself but rather to kill also (it just sound's like he was going for fatal shots) which i do find a bit disturbing. not that i think the man was wrong in defending himself but at point blank range he should have been more then able to do non-fatal shots to at least give them a chance of survival but then again i have a bit higher respect for life then others. (yes even criminal's)

ok....no. When your life is in danger you do not shot someone to wound them. way too many times has someone been shot non-fatally and kept coming and killed officers. That is why you aim for the center of the chest, and if that fails for the head. Also hitting someone in the limb/shoulder ect is very difficult
IF some Crack head comes at him I'm not shooting him in his leg I am going for center mass.
and why do they deserve a chance to survive? The man's life was endanger (or so he believed)

[sailornyanko]

Judgeing by the fact one was killed while the other was shot in the head It seems like the mans intent wasn't just to defend himself but rather to kill also (it just sound's like he was going for fatal shots) which i do find a bit disturbing. not that i think the man was wrong in defending himself but at point blank range he should have been more then able to do non-fatal shots to at least give them a chance of survival but then again i have a bit higher respect for life then others. (yes even criminal's)

It was dark and you have two strange men pointing guns at you (they were just BB's, but it was dark, chances are you wouldn't be able to tell the difference). Would you rather just try to shoot at the men's arms to disarm them and then they shoot back at you and kill you? You can't know what it's like to be in a situation like that unless you've lived it (not that I've experienced it yet; I've never even touched a real gun in my life).

In fact, toy guns that look realistic are illegal to buy in Mexico because a lot of cheapskate criminals who can't afford to buy a real gun use toy guns to mug people. 9 out of 10 people won't notice the difference (even more if they mug someone during the night).

I do wonder how come the cops didn't give the guy a fine because he doesn't have a gun permit.

[earsofdoom]

It was dark and you have two strange men pointing guns at you (they were just BB's, but it was dark, chances are you wouldn't be able to tell the difference). Would you rather just try to shoot at the men's arms to disarm them and then they shoot back at you and kill you?

No i would fire at the chest becouse at that range any gun has hella stoping power an area both less lethal and easier to hit then the head, also depending on what i actually had on me to steal i probably would have just given it to them, 50 bucks is allot less important to me then taking a life.

[sailornyanko]

No i would fire at the chest becouse at that range any gun has hella stoping power an area both less lethal and easier to hit then the head, also depending on what i actually had on me to steal i probably would have just given it to them, 50 bucks is allot less important to me then taking a life.

I will agree with you on that point. Again, I wasn't there when it happened and don't know how dark it was to state if the man's actions were right or not.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... bringing a knife to a gunfight. silly boys.

[animeotaku99]

I do wonder how come the cops didn't give the guy a fine because he doesn't have a gun permit.

I think it was because he was on his property and he used it legally. IF he was pulled over and they discovered he had a gun in his vehicle (wear I think he had it in this situation) he would have gotten a misdemeanor offense

No i would fire at the chest becouse at that range any gun has hella stoping power an area both less lethal and easier to hit then the head, also depending on what i actually had on me to steal i probably would have just given it to them, 50 bucks is allot less important to me then taking a life.

sorry no, guns don't work that way.

[Leader Desslock]

I'm just amazed to hear about the concept of a .410 shotpistol. I just researched one (made by Taurus). Ideal for use as a snake gun, and equally effective in very close quarter defense. It's kinda hard to continue to assault someone who's just blasted a .410 shotgun shell in your face.

The look of the gun (with its elongated cylinder) is a bit hilarious. It makes you think, "What the hell kinda ammo does that cannon USE, anyway?" :lol:

That must be one hella loud handgun. Even if you don't hit a potential attacker with the first round, just the sound of it firing should be enough to make anyone with a functional brain and ears take cover.

As for shooting the guy in the face - eh, as far as I'm concerned, he probably shot at what he could see best. Aiming for center mass is common sense, the correct decision, and something I'm sure anyone who owns that handgun would know. If they had guns drawn on him already, I seriously doubt he had enough time to plan his first shot beyond "aim at what you can see and pull the trigger".

... at that range any gun has hella stoping power...
Yeah, I have to agree with animeotaku on this one. The "stopping power" of any handgun depends on a number of factors.

Mind you, while a .410 shotgun load might not have nearly as much "stopping power" as another weapon, I have to say it'd be one hell of a deterrent for most folks.

[Caster13]

For those that are wondering why he didn't get a fine and whatnot, I'd like to offer an explanation.

*clears throat*

Guy lived in Tennessee. Tennessee is in the South. South supports the 2nd Amendment heavily. South has rednecks, who love guns. Two black guys try to rob a white guy IN THE SOUTH. Guy was most likely a redneck. Guy has insanely powerful handgun which he can own by law and goes for the kill(see a connection yet?). Success, other guy dies. Since this is Tennessee (in the South) the police recognize this guys appreciation for the 2nd Amendment and apparently share the same attitude and he gets off.

And there is a slight possibility that racist views was involved in the decision.

[animeotaku99]

I'm just amazed to hear about the concept of a .410 shotpistol. I just researched one (made by Taurus). Ideal for use as a snake gun, and equally effective in very close quarter defense. It's kinda hard to continue to assault someone who's just blasted a .410 shotgun shell in your face.

The look of the gun (with its elongated cylinder) is a bit hilarious. It makes you think, "What the hell kinda ammo does that cannon USE, anyway?" :lol:

That must be one hella loud handgun. Even if you don't hit a potential attacker with the first round, just the sound of it firing should be enough to make anyone with a functional brain and ears take cover.

...

Yeah, I have to agree with animeotaku on this one. The "stopping power" of any handgun depends on a number of factors.

Mind you, while a .410 shotgun load might not have nearly as much "stopping power" as another weapon, I have to say it'd be one hell of a deterrent for most folks.

The Taurus Judge is actually not that great of a defense weapon... birdshot (shotshell) is way to small to be used against a human target and with this gun the shot spreads out way to far after about 5 feet. Buckshot is what you want to use for self defense but with such a small calibre it does do much more damage then the bird. This gun was advertised for use as an anti-car jacking gun. it can also use .45 LC. but it has it's uses but I would suggest something else for SD.

For those intrested in more http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

[taily]

For those that are wondering why he didn't get a fine and whatnot, I'd like to offer an explanation.

*clears throat*

Guy lived in Tennessee. Tennessee is in the South. South supports the 2nd Amendment heavily. South has rednecks, who love guns. Two black guys try to rob a white guy IN THE SOUTH. Guy was most likely a redneck. Guy has insanely powerful handgun which he can own by law and goes for the kill(see a connection yet?). Success, other guy dies. Since this is Tennessee (in the South) the police recognize this guys appreciation for the 2nd Amendment and apparently share the same attitude and he gets off.

And there is a slight possibility that racist views was involved in the decision.

...or maybe they let him off for doing a favour and killing a prick before(?) he could reproduce, and it has nothing to do with race.

[animeotaku99]

or killing a cracked out piece of garbage before he could kill someone for more drug money

[Leader Desslock]

birdshot (shotshell) is way to small to be used against a human target and with this gun the shot spreads out way to far after about 5 feet.
Which is why I worded it "very close quarter defense", with emphasis on the very. Like... a derringer, maybe. Not much use outside of a big room, but if someone wanted to stick his head or hand in your car door, it'd provide enough incentive for him to vacate the car.

In terms of "self defense", as typically defined by NRA propaganda (i.e.: enough stopping power to take down a paramilitary-trained, LSD-crazed, state-of-the-art-body-armor-wearing psychopath holding a knife to a toddler's throat), I'll agree that it's not a self-defense weapon.

I don't think birdshot at very close range is any less of a deterrent than rock salt, personally. It might not be lethal, but it's a nice sting to help folks reconsider their current course of action.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

So I'm guessing CQC (close quarters combat) is out of the question in this case?

:huh:

[JoeStrummer]

When he's 67, I'd think so

[Phantom]

Handgun that fires .410 shotgun rounds? Only in America.

[animeotaku99]

Handgun that fires .410 shotgun rounds? Only in America.

it's not that uncommon. Just don't go making your .410 shotgun into a .410 pistol or the ATF will V& you

and rocksalt does not work in a gun: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

[Leader Desslock]

and rocksalt does not work in a gun: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm
Rocksalt DOES work in a gun, just not like the movies would have you believe. But then, who believes movie firearms anyway? Guns in movies function according to narrative convenience, not physics. :lol:

[Sushikins]

After reading this, the only thing that stood out to me was the Handgun that fires shotgun rounds...:wub:

[Old Ape Face]

Rocksalt DOES work in a gun, just not like the movies would have you believe. But then, who believes movie firearms anyway? Guns in movies function according to narrative convenience, not physics. :lol:

When a bullet can make a person fly through a window, that pretty much kills the whole movie for me personally, good bad or indifferent.

[Trefellin]

After reading this, the only thing that stood out to me was the Handgun that fires shotgun rounds...:wub:

Where's the fun in that? I thought the point of a shotgun was the awesome click-click when you eject a shell.


The bb guns for Airsoft are usually made to be entirely realistic looking. The guy had justifiable cause to shoot. I don't care if he should have given is money, some people do not want to face the indignity of being robbed.

[Caster13]

When a bullet can make a person fly through a window, that pretty much kills the whole movie for me personally, good bad or indifferent.

The bullet would tear right through them before that happened.