Oh noes to Market is melting!

[emotoaster]

Can someone explain to me how this is happening and if it is a real concern?

And feel free to lock if this gets to heated I'm really not looking for political ideologies of how to fix it or who is really to blame. I just want facts.

[Lacan]

I made a topic almost like this 15-20 minutes ago, and I deleted due to getting negative feedback and fear of making a fool of myself.

Personally I don't know what is going to happen. Can't we just did what we did to end the depression of the 20s/30s and start with a fresh slate in the economy again?

I'm probably the most misinformed person online.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Can someone explain to me how this is happening and if it is a real concern?

And feel free to lock if this gets to heated I'm really not looking for political ideologies of how to fix it or who is really to blame. I just want facts.


In a nutshell

1. Deregulation that started off in the Clinton administration so no one was watching what Wall Street did.

2. You also have the strengthening of social programs to get home loans to people who would never get them because they have bad credit or no ability to pay it back. I.E. giving a 50K home loan to someone on Welfare (Yes they did it).

3. This is the most significant factor. People who live beyond their means, take out 3 mortgages on their home and max out their credit cards in order to buy 4 cars, fax machines, and Franklin mint civil war chess sets. They then cannot pay them back.

#2 gave out lots of bads loans to # 3 because it is racist and mean to expect people to be able to pay back their loans and #1 would bundle all these bad debts up and sell them to mutual funds and other brokerages. Then suddenly they figured out that all these bundles are worthless. #3 will rightly lose their homes for being asshats, #1 played junta took the money and ran, #2 did the same thing with government organizations like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and still press for more bad loans for people who can't pay them because they make a nice profit on them. So now you will end up paying for a bailout of all three because it will sink your little boat if you don't.

[Haro!]

Its all because people bought houses in the middle of nowhere thinking they'd be worth something later, all the while not being able to afford the home to begin with. Seriously though. I think you're only royally screwed if you took out a crappy loan, or lived beyond your means, which is why you probably would take out a crappy loan.

Also it would probably screw you if you work for one of these financial services companies. Surprisingly I haven't gotten laid off yet but I won't be surprised if and when it happens.

[old hat]

Also, home prices, at least in California, were absurdly inflated and the market was way overdue for a downward correction. When it happened a lot of people got caught swinging in the breeze.

There are always people who are convinced that the market will keep going up forever and that the bubble will never burst. They are always wrong.

[Jia]

This reminds me of my job. -_- I have to watch the stock market daily.

Edit: It's depressing watching the clients get all angry because they lost 20,000 in a day.

[emotoaster]

Bernard is it really that easy to get a loan...I thought people had some sense...

What I'm having a hard time figuring out is how Wall Street factors in on this.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Bernard is it really that easy to get a loan...I thought people had some sense...




Yes, variable interest rate loans are easy to get, if they qualify then they have to give them out even if they know they will default in a couple of years due to the rising interest rate.

[old hat]

I heard of loans being given out based on stated income with no attempt at confirmation. Someone claimed to make $100,000 (or whatever) and got a loan based on that income without anyone checking whether or not this person even had a job.

[Ikari Warrior]

Essentially, the scammers got scammed, and the honest folk (like me and most/all of the members of this forum) have to pay for it.

Tell me Bernie, what good will a 700B bailout REALLY do? I mean, it strikes me as a ridiculous amount of money, such that I don't think the ENTIRETY OF THE UNITED STATES has that kind of dough. 70B I can somewhat visualize, but SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION just really strikes a sour note with me.

It worries me greatly that if we pump 700 billion into the economy all in one go, that our currency will cease to have any value, and this bailout plan will have the exact opposite effect that Dubya is going for.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Tell me Bernie, what good will a 700B bailout REALLY do?


Nobody really knows, but this is the logical conclusion of Keynesian economics and the formation of the Federal Reserve anyway. If nothing else we will see it it pumps the bilge out of the market or if we will follow the hypothisis in Fromm's Escape From Freedom.

[Ikari Warrior]

Nobody really knows, but this is the logical conclusion of Keynesian economics and the formation of the Federal Reserve anyway. If nothing else we will see it it pumps the bilge out of the market or if we will follow the hypothisis in Fromm's Escape From Freedom.

Which hypothesis is that? That we'd end up electing someone like hitler as president? (conclusion derived from the summary on Wikipedia).

[Bernard_Monsha]

Which hypothesis is that? That we'd end up electing someone like hitler as president? (conclusion derived from the summary on Wikipedia).

No that people drift away from freedom because it involves responsibility. Why should we payback loans when Uncle Sam will pay them for us, that would mean we would not be able to have 6 televisions 4 cars and a guilded weedeater.

People also tend to forget that financial freedom is the bulwark that guarantees all others. But most people think real freedom is choosing Wendy's or Burger King, Voting on American Idol, choosing between reruns of Friends or Sienfeld. In short most people are stupid.

[HSaabedra]

People also tend to forget that financial freedom is the bulwark that guarantees all others. But most people think real freedom is choosing Wendy's or Burger King, Voting on American Idol, choosing between reruns of Friends or Sienfeld. In short most people are stupid.

I agree with this sentiment and its implications because while it may come off as a blanket statement, it's the unfortunate reality of a society that has become complacent and allowed themselves to be led by the shepherd promising water and sustenance, with the gift of slaughter instead.

I don't know what to do or say that will suddenly make this better, but I hope this generation as a whole realizes what is being done and decides to do something about it instead of listening to the media and allowing themselves to be told what to do.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

It's because noone is buying anime dvds anymore becuase Shin-Getter fansubbed all the worthwhile anime, so the market crashed :O

[Bernard_Monsha]

Just as Brill says it is all because you people buy discount DVD's and watch fansubs!!!11111!!one!11!

[HSaabedra]

Just as Brill says it is all because you people buy discount DVD's and watch fansubs!!!11111!!one!11!

He's the biggest example of hypocrisy anyway since he seems to enjoy watching Code Geass R2 without any objections, but I'm just making an observation.

[trancemaster261]

this is what hapens when people like bush are put in charge

[Azagthoth]

Overleveraging and lack of credit liquidity is the largest factors at play at the moment. From what I've seen I can't really call the proposed $700B in spending to be a simple expenditure, but more of an "investment." The government would certainly issue low interest T-Bonds to cover the costs (which of course will profit at maturity). The amount of the bailout is the real question, as Don Luskin commented, of the $1.26 trillion in non-prime mortgages — that is, “sub-prime” and “Alt-A” mortgages — $743 billion is already either owned or guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That leaves $521 Billion. In a market sense, 1987 was definitely more stressful to equity markets than the recent happenings. The real issue here is deleveraging investment banks and restoring market liquidity so vital to the world financial markets.

[Bernard_Monsha]

this is what hapens when people like bush are put in charge

Is this the wisdom given to you by satan while meditating about furry devil Naruto?

[goddessofanime]

Is this the wisdom given to you by satan while meditating about furry devil Naruto?

ROFL

(nuthintosay)

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Hey trancemaster is back, let's try that satanist thread again.

It's like that movie, Shaolin VS Tai Chi VS NINJA!

[Xhalen]

this is what hapens when people like bush are put in charge

Politics aside, it would probably help to read up on what exactly lead up to this point...here's a hint, the legislation that got the ball rolling was passed between 1992 and 2000.

Now with a politcal slant, hopefully you're old enough to vote(and a US citizen) and make your opinion count.

[Ken-Ohki]

My father is a brilliant man and I pray he lives forever but he said to me exactly what Bernard said. It's because people were living above their means. And now they want to be bankrolled so they don't lose the homes they couldn't afford in the first place.

[Haro!]

Dudes. Support the bail out. Keep Haro! employed! (I should make a t-shirt that says that and wear it at work)

[seba_boi]

So it's true then?... Thank goodness for Canada...

[Broand]

And due to this, Ireland is in recession.

I hope you're happy

[Bernard_Monsha]

A quick rundown of the current SNAFU on capitol hill.

The government will make lots of moany when they sell this junk off because it will greatly increase in value. The Democrats want to spend the difference on stuff like ACORN which helped to start the whole mess with the mortgage industry and their various special interest groups whom they owe political favours. Republicans are grandstanding and pretending to be fiscally conservative by saying they want to use it to pay off the national debt. Were were they for the last 12 years?

I think McCain will cow the Republicans and the Dems will agree because they both will get more money to buy votes with.

[Soluzar]

And due to this, Ireland is in recession.

I hope you're happy
Don't worry, the emerald isle will have a lot of company before long.

This isn't going away regardless of how much money is pumped into it unless some serious thought is given by a lot of people to solving the underlying problems. Whether that should be by way of regulation of the financial services sector or some other means is not a matter upon which I feel qualified to speak, but I just don't believe that pouring more money into the pocket that has developed a few holes is the solution.

[DavenIII]

how about we stop the government from giving away free money to asshats... that's the best way to start.

best way "I" can thing of to do that is to vote republican, Dem's are the ones always wanting to give our money to the "Downtrodden" AKA people that are stupid and don't know what to do with money when they get it and cause all these problems to begin with.

[Lacan]

I'll vote for either Ralph Nader or Ron Paul due to them wanting to fix corruption and fix this economy *or whats left of it*.

The Republicans since Bush Jr ran office are not real Republicans, but more like Bushicans. Bush was like a mind altering parasite that dug into the GOP and corrupted it and changed it forever. And the sad thing is that Mccain and Palin is continuing Bush's ways to run down this economy.

Republicans should of voted for Ron Paul, except they ignored him for Mccain instead. We had the answer on what people can save our nation and we ignored them. Well so did the media that denied their existence.

Personally I don't care what party I choose anymore, as long as it can save this country and its economy, I'm all for it.

[Soluzar]

how about we stop the government from giving away free money to asshats... that's the best way to start.

best way "I" can thing of to do that is to vote republican, Dem's are the ones always wanting to give our money to the "Downtrodden" AKA people that are stupid and don't know what to do with money when they get it and cause all these problems to begin with.
It is a Republican who proposes to fix this problem with an infusion of cash. It's probably more tax dollars than were 'given away' by Democrat social programs in the whole of the last Dem administration.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

Bernard hit the nail on the head when he said that this mess can be mostly attributed to people living beyond their means and idiot loaners giving money to people who knew good and well that they wouldn't be able to pay them back.

I like the whole infusion of cash idea. Works just like curing an alcoholic by giving him more alcohol. <_<

I heard some economists stating that when the economy moved away from the gold standard to a fiat economy, the gates to the current mess opened. Any thoughts on this?

[Azagthoth]

I like the whole infusion of cash idea. Works just like curing an alcoholic by giving him more alcohol. <_<

How are you supposed to restore the liquidity distressed credit markets without an infusion of capital? The real question of the bill is whether the taxpayers or incentive based private capital (I'm supposing from Private Equity and Investment management firms) should be used. Its a pretty hard sell to investors to help the government when they made the initial mess. All I can say if Pelosi backs it, I'm as far away as you can possibly be.

To add, the fear and contagion in equities is definitely a driving factor in the absence of capital. Short term US T-Bills (1, 3, & 6 month) have virtually no yield, almost all equities markets are down greatly (especially the Hang Seng and Shanghai Asian markets), and overnight rates (such as LIBOR) still show a flight to preserving capital. Credit swap spreads are definitely up as the credit markets are frozen and it will definitely be an interesting (if not very slow) experience.

[grgspunk]

It is a Republican who proposes to fix this problem with an infusion of cash. It's probably more tax dollars than were 'given away' by Democrat social programs in the whole of the last Dem administration.

I think it's already been established that they don't like to give crap to anyone on Main Street, but they're much happier about giving away money if Wall Street is involved.

Those companies can crash for all I care. Hearing about those overtly open and predatory lending practices, it seemed like they were begging for some sort of downturn. If we had to spend nearly a trillion dollars, I'd be a lot happier if it went to bailing out those homeowners instead.

[iwakura]

It's a big mess. Multiple parties abused the continual roll-back of banking regulations in the interests of short-term profits. Frequently fraud was involved, so a number of people involved in the "sub prime" mortgage portion of this fiasco should end up going to jail.

Failure of the banks invested in bogus mortgage derivatives resulted in the original money market fund "breaking the buck". It's giving back 97 cents on the dollar. This made banks and funds very nervous and no wanting to make loans to anyone, so the short term commercial paper is not functioning very well. This can bring today's economy to a halt and there could be a mini-depression as new ways are found to balance the books at the end of a business day.

It's not really the fault of a single political party but more of a pervasive "winner takes all" attitude in business today. The myth of a totally free market should get put to bed when this is over. We need mostly open, mostly free but fair markets with minimal regulations periodically updated as parties learn to abuse the rules. Perhaps companies will have to be preemptively broken up so entities won't get "too big to fail" as a part of the usual monopolistic consolidation phase that follows an innovative burst.

Figure out a way to keep credit flowing, clean up the mess and instead of salary limits on executives, start investigating them and end up sending most of them to jail for fraud. (For example when the CEO says everything is fine on CNBC but knows it isn't and then defaults, that's fraud...)

[Bradster]

For an explanation that doesn't have its roots (and its sole traction) in far-right thought like National Review, Free Republic, or bobble-heads that make their money from pandering to them, you can read this (http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_ subprime_crisis). Bernard should pay close attention to the paragraphs with links to PDFs which note that half of these subprime loans are from mortgage companies which aren't affected at all by teh evul CRA (and less than 25% of sub-prime loans come from institutions fully governed by it), and that the default rates are considered to be "low".

I'll leave it up to you to decide who was more stupid: the homeowners who tried to live beyond their means (buying all of Bush's Ownership Society pap), or the banks who weren't required to give them loans doing it anyway, neither thinking the economy would tank so far as to make so many people default.

[Old Ape Face]

Bernard hit the nail on the head when he said that this mess can be mostly attributed to people living beyond their means and idiot loaners giving money to people who knew good and well that they wouldn't be able to pay them back.

But are they fully aware they can't pay it back? Stupidity is the blood of marketing these days, just tell anyone they can have free money and they will take it without a second thought. When you have people that are pretty much on welfare they are most likely people who haven't figured out that working makes money.

Then again America is turning into a country that demands some kind of secondary degree to even live in this country. If you're on welfare you are not living in this country, you are living in someone else's debt. Pretty much if you're mentally disabled or you don't want to work, you will not make it here.

I find the ones handing out the money are the captains and the welfare people are the sales to this sinking ship.

[emotoaster]

But when people can't pay can't the banks/lenders repossess your ****? I mean don't you normally have to put some sort of collateral in the agreement? Isn't that one way these banks make money?

[Dorktron2000]

But when people can't pay can't the banks/lenders repossess your ****? I mean don't you normally have to put some sort of collateral in the agreement? Isn't that one way these banks make money?

Those types of assets get marked down or marked as illiquid. The glut of housing, with few people willing to buy, especially in places like the exurbs, means that the banks cannot recuperate their investment.

Right now banks are entering a deleverage cycle, and that is why every banker wants the federal government to intervene. These banks need someone to tell them how much their toxic assets are worth.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I'll leave it up to you to decide who was more stupid: the homeowners who tried to live beyond their means (buying all of Bush's Ownership Society pap), or the banks who weren't required to give them loans doing it anyway, neither thinking the economy would tank so far as to make so many people default.


Bull and you know it's bull. Banks were forced by community activist organizations like ACORN and NACA under the revamped CRA to give out billions of dollars in bad loans to prevent "red lining". This was predicted almost ten years ago (http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html) but was dismissed as racist homophobic mouth breather rants by people like you. This has been brewing for 15 years and you cannot point fingers and scream Bush did it. I have been less than partisan on this with all parties involved sharing the blame.

But when people can't pay can't the banks/lenders repossess your ****? I mean don't you normally have to put some sort of collateral in the agreement? Isn't that one way these banks make money?


No it is racist to demand someone put up collateral. You are not racist are you?

[ZechsMerquise1]

I cant believe Wamu got yeah..... lol so whats gonna happen to the people who have checking accs with them? What about people with credit cards there xD

[Tuna]

I cant believe Wamu got yeah..... lol so whats gonna happen to the people who have checking accs with them? What about people with credit cards there xDThey were simply bought out by JPMorgan Chase...the only thing that will happen is that their checks/credit cards will say "Chase Bank" instead of "WaMu" - WaMu was bailed out so quickly that it ended up simply taking the form of a standard bank merger - it was all of the uninformed idiots making a run on the bank that actually caused it and made it look like a big deal...

As for the "economic crisis", it doesn't really effect those of us who are too poor to own a home, take out a massive loan, or invest in the stock market...
For us poor folk, this "big deal" is really a non-issue...
^_^

[Dorktron2000]

I cant believe Wamu got yeah..... lol so whats gonna happen to the people who have checking accs with them? What about people with credit cards there xD

Your checking account is never really in trouble since it is FDIC insured.

[ZechsMerquise1]

Your checking account is never really in trouble since it is FDIC insured.

That would be crazy if all of a sudden a credit card company goes out of business and the people who have balances with them had to pay right then and there xD

[Trefellin]

I know jack about economics. My solution... let a mob burn down some mansions.

Would that help?

I didn't think so.


I hate when people live past their means. I doesn't make sense.

Then they complain about money or wages. I have little sympathy for them. That's another matter though.

[Dorktron2000]

That would be crazy if all of a sudden a credit card company goes out of business and the people who have balances with them had to pay right then and there xD

Your debt with Visa or Mastercard is held by your card-issuing bank not with Visa or Mastercard themselves. Delinquent card holders are bad, but it's really not something that could ever cripple a bank.

[taily]

I heard banks are also deteriating because people are panicing and taking all their money out to put it under the floorboards, not realiseing this only worsens the ecomony

Dear god my spelling is bad today.

[grgspunk]

Bull and you know it's bull. Banks were forced by community activist organizations like ACORN and NACA under the revamped CRA to give out billions of dollars in bad loans to prevent "red lining". This was predicted almost ten years ago (http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html) but was dismissed as racist homophobic mouth breather rants by people like you. This has been brewing for 15 years and you cannot point fingers and scream Bush did it. I have been less than partisan on this with all parties involved sharing the blame.

If those banks didn't perform race-based mortgage discrimination in the 60's & 70's (like when they rejected mid-class blacks while accepting low-income whites) and merely decided based on peoples' ability to pay, they wouldn't have pissed off those activists, the bill would never have passed (or bastardized) and we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. If this bill really is a major contributor to this mess, then the banks themselves are still responsible because they've engaged in unethical practices that motivated people to create this law in the first place.

Hey, what goes around, comes around, and can come back for seconds.

[Bernard_Monsha]

If those banks didn't perform race-based mortgage discrimination in the 60's & 70's (like when they rejected mid-class blacks while accepting low-income whites) and merely decided based on peoples' ability to pay, they wouldn't have pissed off those activists, the bill would never have passed (or bastardized) and we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. If this bill really is a major contributor to this mess, then the banks themselves are still responsible because they've engaged in unethical practices that motivated people to create this law in the first place.


A down-payment requirement, based on concern as to whether a borrower can make payments, is—when applied to low-income minority buyers—"patronizing and almost racist," Marks says.


Oh LAWDS. It was caused by racism, because liberals can do no wrong because they are smart pretty pink gay transgendered paraplegic rainbow unicorns who spread magical candy every were they step. Jesus, and people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.

[Hara!]

Right-wingers are scapegoating hardworking American families. (http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/09/27/2008-09-27_rightwingers_are_scapegoating_hardwor kin.html)

In my opinion, some were living beyond their means, and some were just unlucky. Blaming equality laws is just scapegoating.

[Azagthoth]

Right-wingers are scapegoating hardworking American families. (http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/09/27/2008-09-27_rightwingers_are_scapegoating_hardwor kin.html)

In my opinion, some were living beyond their means, and some were just unlucky. Blaming equality laws is just scapegoating.

an important corrective to decades of red-lining, in which banks would take in millions in savings and bank deposits in low-income areas but refuse to lend any of it to even the most creditworthy families and businesses in those neighborhoods.

The inevitable correction became "reverse red-lining" which was a participatory cause of the current problem. That article was overtly biased from the first sentence. The bottom line is, whenever a politician manipulates markets in the name of "equality" or "fairness" it usually ends up in disaster.

[Magami No ER]

Can someone explain to me how this is happening and if it is a real concern?

And feel free to lock if this gets to heated I'm really not looking for political ideologies of how to fix it or who is really to blame. I just want facts.
Humans are incapable of NOT playing the blame just because they have given knowledge, even mods. The facts are, in the very least, present in the beginning of the thread.

[Dorktron2000]

Bull and you know it's bull. Banks were forced by community activist organizations like ACORN and NACA under the revamped CRA to give out billions of dollars in bad loans to prevent "red lining". This was predicted almost ten years ago (http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html) but was dismissed as racist homophobic mouth breather rants by people like you. This has been brewing for 15 years and you cannot point fingers and scream Bush did it. I have been less than partisan on this with all parties involved sharing the blame.

Are most of the mortgage failures in minority communities, or are the rates significantly higher in minority communities?

I thought much of the problem was caused by speculation. Booming housing markets led to a lot of people living beyond their means with the idea that they could finance their excess by quickly turning their house for a profit.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Right-wingers are scapegoating hardworking American families. (http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/09/27/2008-09-27_rightwingers_are_scapegoating_hardwor kin.html)

In my opinion, some were living beyond their means, and some were just unlucky. Blaming equality laws is just scapegoating.

I notice he does not talk about community activist ACORN and NACA tieing up bank lobbies in cities by changing pennies to dollar then dollars to pennies all day for weeks at a time to extort million of guaranteed loans. Or that they get money for every loan they manage to get. No one wants to recognize that all parts share responsibility because most people are stupid and will scream out bumper stickers instead of trying to fix the problem.







Are most of the mortgage failures in minority communities, or are the rates significantly higher in minority communities?

I thought much of the problem was caused by speculation. Booming housing markets led to a lot of people living beyond their means with the idea that they could finance their excess by quickly turning their house for a profit.

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are were 2/3 of the bad loans come from, they do not keep these but sell them at a profit banks who then bundle these and sell them to brokerage houses who slip them into portfolios. The only way to keep this arrangement going is to continue issuing more and more home loans. The market reached it's artificial saturation point then crashed taking a lot with it. All three parties had a part in this, Liberals demanding bad loans be given out, conservatives deregulating the market so they could slip the bad loans into funds and perpetuate the problem, and the idiots who would borrow well beyond their means.

Of course no one will ever take responsibility, which is the exact reason why we are in this mess in the first place.

[Ikari Warrior]

IOf course no one will ever take responsibility, which is the exact reason why we are in this mess in the first place.
And yet again, the honest man gets shafted.

[Dorktron2000]

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are were 2/3 of the bad loans come from, they do not keep these but sell them at a profit banks who then bundle these and sell them to brokerage houses who slip them into portfolios. The only way to keep this arrangement going is to continue issuing more and more home loans. The market reached it's artificial saturation point then crashed taking a lot with it. All three parties had a part in this, Liberals demanding bad loans be given out, conservatives deregulating the market so they could slip the bad loans into funds and perpetuate the problem, and the idiots who would borrow well beyond their means.

Of course no one will ever take responsibility, which is the exact reason why we are in this mess in the first place.

I understand that the infection eventually spread to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; I'm just unsure of how much of it was through them and how much of their balance sheet was infected before they eventually were forced to start underwriting Alt-A loans back when Countrywide went under.

I do agree that blame is evenly spread out; I just don't think you can place any kind of racial bias towards the Democrat's intentions; in general, they see home ownership as one of the central points to fostering a strong and healthy middle class, whether that is urban or otherwise. Ultimately, I think the biggest fault of the mortgage crisis is the ready acceptance of such mortgages. In the end both sides received what they wanted, fiscal conservatives got cheap, ready capital, and liberals saw the level of home ownership go up.

[Justinian]

I'll vote for either Ralph Nader or Ron Paul due to them wanting to fix corruption and fix this economy *or whats left of it*.

The Republicans since Bush Jr ran office are not real Republicans, but more like Bushicans. Bush was like a mind altering parasite that dug into the GOP and corrupted it and changed it forever. And the sad thing is that Mccain and Palin is continuing Bush's ways to run down this economy.

Republicans should of voted for Ron Paul, except they ignored him for Mccain instead. We had the answer on what people can save our nation and we ignored them. Well so did the media that denied their existence.

Personally I don't care what party I choose anymore, as long as it can save this country and its economy, I'm all for it.

I completely agree. I really like the way you think.

[grgspunk]

Oh LAWDS. It was caused by racism, because liberals can do no wrong because they are smart pretty pink gay transgendered paraplegic rainbow unicorns who spread magical candy every were they step. Jesus, and people wonder why we are in the mess we are in.


Almost racist, numbnuts. It's a reference to how blacks minorities have a tendency to be on the lower end of the socio-economic hierarchy than the whites do and the possiblity of them getting potentially singled out. Besides, you can't really judge an ideology/party's intention by a single random idiot who claims to be a part of it.

[emotoaster]

Really good information everyone. I just keep seeing 700 billion and ******** my pants.

Side Note: I'm in the middle of taking some basic business classes so maybe in 10 or so years I'll actually be able to put my two cents in.

[Bernard_Monsha]

And yet again, the honest man gets shafted.

But honest people who pay their bills are evil and greedy for being responsible.

I understand that the infection eventually spread to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; I'm just unsure of how much of it was through them and how much of their balance sheet was infected before they eventually were forced to start underwriting Alt-A loans back when Countrywide went under.

They were always designed to underwrite loans under the revised CRA. They would buy them up bundle them and market them to brokerages as government guaranteed loans.

Almost racist, numbnuts. It's a reference to how blacks minorities have a tendency to be on the lower end of the socio-economic hierarchy than the whites do and the possiblity of them getting potentially singled out. Besides, you can't really judge an ideology/party's intention by a single random idiot who claims to be a part of it.

Do you think it could be that they were high risk to lend to?


An apropriate quote for the current situtation.

Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

On the news, the House just rejected the Bailout Bill. As a result, the Dow is plummeting.

[goddessofanime]

We are f**ked.

[Caster13]

On the news, the House just rejected the Bailout Bill. As a result, the Dow is plummeting.

****.

Hopefully someone who can still get a loan buys my house in Jersey. Some people still are that stupid. And we all know that this country is chock full of stupid people.

[Bernard_Monsha]

On the news, the House just rejected the Bailout Bill. As a result, the Dow is plummeting.

Beat me to it, it may drop 1/3 by the end of the week. This will ripple out to other markets. All I can say is ow, my 401K.

Word has it that they had the votes until a certain house speaker opened her mouth and pissed off enough of the opposition to vote it down.

[Caster13]

Looks like I won't be able to get another student loan for awhile.

And it also looks like we're heading for a depression.

[goddessofanime]

I just found out that my bank got sold today.

As I said...we are f**ked.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

Beat me to it, it may drop 1/3 by the end of the week. This will ripple out to other markets. All I can say is ow, my 401K.

Word has it that they had the votes until a certain house speaker opened her mouth and pissed off enough of the opposition to vote it down.

I'm guessing her first name rhymes with fancy and last name rhymes with cozy?

Oh and goddess...though tough times may be ahead, lets hope we don't get to the point where money is used for firewood.

[goddessofanime]

I don't think it'd go that far.

But Wachovia got bought out by CitiBank and I've heard bad things about them.

[Depression]

I like how they're trying to blame the Republicans when the Democrats have majority and could have passed it on their own.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I'm guessing her first name rhymes with fancy and last name rhymes with cozy?

Oh and goddess...though tough times may be ahead, lets hope we don't get to the point where money is used for firewood.

Lets hope we don't all end up selling firewood for money.

I don't think it'd go that far.

But Wachovia got bought out by CitiBank and I've heard bad things about them.

Citi sucks, I am with Wachovia too. Blame the panic-tards pulling out 16 billion dollars this weekend for the sale.

[Caster13]

I don't think it'd go that far.

But Wachovia got bought out by CitiBank and I've heard bad things about them.

I know someone who once had a Wachovia account. They said it was pretty bad.

I use Bank of America personally.

[Broand]

We're heading into depression says my elders and being a strapping young lad, I respect them.

[Caster13]

It might not even get that far. The LHC goes off on the 21st of Oct, so we might all die before that. Either from a black hole or a small big bang.

[Xhalen]

This is a market correction that's been long overdue but like everything else, it's the people who really have no say in what happens(general population) that end up feeling the shaft.

It would have been interesting if the bill had passed, I wonder how many of the various financial institutions that are close to the line would have been willing to subject themselves to the culpability provisions that were outlined.

It might not even get that far. The LHC goes off on the 21st of Oct, so we might all die before that. Either from a black hole or a small big bang.

Oh yeah, I forget that they had to fix a couple of magnets on it. I wonder what's on the other side of a black hole.

[HSaabedra]

I like how they're trying to blame the Republicans when the Democrats have majority and could have passed it on their own.

I'm watching the shitstorm on C-SPAN and couldn't help but scream at my TV. My portfolio resembled a rollercoaster and I wish I did a .gif for fun.

[Caine]

An interesting and relatively objective article (http://techdirt.com/articles/20080929/0426042403.shtml)




Oh yeah, I forget that they had to fix a couple of magnets on it. I wonder what's on the other side of a black hole.

people who solve problems rather than pointing fingers

[Lemina]

Good riddens. The last we need is for the gonverment to take more control of the financial market and our lives, and be $700,000,000,000.00 in more debt!! I thought the House of Representatives did the right choice!! I bet they were under pressure but they came though and listened to the people. :thumbsup:

[Bradster]

Word has it that they had the votes until a certain house speaker opened her mouth and pissed off enough of the opposition to vote it down.

Word has it that somebody said somebody else is of the opinion that the Democrats would've been blamed if it passed, too. I have no doubt that wingers had prepared Democrat-bashing remarks for both possible outcomes: one for sinking the bill that would've saved our economy, and one for supporting a bill that hit the taxpayers up for 700B.

Poor GOPpers. They got their panties in a wad at some perceived insult from Nancy and voted against the bill in a fit of pique. If passage of this bill was that important (and apparently America in general still hasn't been convinced of that yet), way to put your feelings over the needs of the country.

The Republican president, minority leader, and nominee for President (who "suspended his campaign" so he could personally orchestrate the bailout deal, and took credit for it over the weekend) couldn’t get the Republican house votes to support his bailout plan. I'm ashamed that more Democrats supported Bush's plan after concessions.

So it's obviously Pelosi’s fault.

“In the sphere of numerology the number of Republicans who ignore what’s best for the country because of a speech turns out to be exactly the number of Republicans we need to pass the vote."

[Bernard_Monsha]

I like how they're trying to blame the Republicans when the Democrats have majority and could have passed it on their own.

I particurally like the way Rep. Boypimp Lisp is reacting, I think his district should be removed from the country.

^

Speak of the devil, Bradster goes and quotes Boypimp Lisp.

[Hara!]

This is one of the biggest cluster****s I've ever seen. I honestly feel bad for everyone in charge.

[Bradster]

I particurally like the way Rep. Boypimp Lisp is reacting, I think his district should be removed from the country.

^

Speak of the devil, Bradster goes and quotes Boypimp Lisp.

I guess those red letters of yours must exempt you from the rules about civil discussions, since "my kind" gets labeled as "idiotic", are trolls, or suffer from "Bush Derangement Syndrome" if we use names like "Chimpy McFlightsuit" or "McSame". You just can't take opinions that stray too far from what you've established as THE TRUTH without becoming childish, can you?

[Bernard_Monsha]

This is one of the biggest cluster****s I've ever seen. I honestly feel bad for everyone in charge.

I don't it's not like they did not know this was coming years ago but did nothing. Now it is here both sides are feigning ignorence and blaming the other side while ensuring they line their own nest. Both sides can go screw themselves.

I guess those red letters of yours must exempt you from the rules about civil discussions, since "my kind" gets labeled as "idiotic", are trolls, or suffer from "Bush Derangement Syndrome" if we use names like "Chimpy McFlightsuit" or "McSame". You just can't take opinions that stray too far from what you've established as THE TRUTH without becoming childish, can you?

It is Chimpy McSmirkvich and Mr. My gay lover was running a child prostitutuion ring out of my office and got a slap on the wrist, is by far the most discusting person in the entire congress. He is even below Presidential Candidate Mr. Keating 5, unless of course you are going to try to defend Pedo Frank

[Raziel_MGS]

sweet, old people fighting, this is more interesting than most of AN 12 year old screams

[iwakura]

Good riddens. The last we need is for the gonverment to take more control of the financial market and our lives, and be $700,000,000,000.00 in more debt!! I thought the House of Representatives did the right choice!! I bet they were under pressure but they came though and listened to the people. :thumbsup:

Hi Lemina!
Glad to see you still around here...

I'm not exactly happy with the package, but the credit market is on the verge of locking up right now, even with central banks pumping money into the system. 700 Gigabucks is alot, but the inflation resulting from having to keep pumping up the system over and over could make that look like peanuts... Maybe it's time to buy gold...

One of the problems is that the average person out there isn't capable of understanding what's going on. Bad derivatives are weighing down the financial system like Micheal Phelps swimming with a lead ball and chain around his ankle. We are a republic and not a pure democracy. In this case one has to appoint smart people you can trust and let them try to fix it. Can we trust Chairman Bernanke? Can we trust politicians to come up with anything better?

As an aside, the investigators are digging in to Fannie and Freddie. http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-09-29-fannie-freddie_N.htm Lock those fraudsters up!

[sailornyanko]

I was reading a few news articles over how what's going on in the US is what happened to Mexico when I just moved there (err.. here cuse I'm in Mexico at the moment haha) as a kid in the mid 1990's.

Then president Zedillo recently took office and had to deal with this mess and he was forced to create the Fobaproa (similar to your 700 billion deal but at a far smallar proportion of $$$) and while it screwed up the country for a while, it was the lesser of two evils. Letting things continue as they were would have had a result similar to the one Argentina suffered back in 2001 8where the Argentinan peso devaluation was insane). Oh, Zedillo did what he did at the cost in some ways of PRI losing the presidency in 2000. The issue in the US couldn't have happened at a worse time for McCain.

Living through a recession was a bit tough, but it's not like I died or anything. Maybe if people stopped driving their Hummers, took fantasy trips to Paris and instead lived more modestly according to the salary people earned, people will be able to survive through it (it's not like the US will get to the level of suck-tard-ness Zimbabwe is in right now). Who knows, maybe in the future it will bring more employment to the US when services and tourism becomes cheaper because of the devaluation.

Actually the bank devaluation in mexico in the mid 80's is the reason why i was born in the US in the first place. Had it never happened, I would have been born in Mexico City in a posh neighborhood, my parents would have still owned a piece of land that's worth (well, I really don't wanna know but you can bet it's worth several million dollars today because of the location) and I might have ended up like a fresa rich girl who would probably still be billingual, but as spanish as the mother tongue and might have never gotten into anime. My parents had lots of fascinating (but in a sad sense) stories about their experiences of the 1970's devaluation. I had a non-blood relative that was forced to commit suicide because he lost everything. ._.

[Caster13]

How come so many politicians, who are supposed to be taught by their very high level colleges to effectively run the country, happen to be so ****ing stupid?

Oh yeah, I forget that they had to fix a couple of magnets on it. I wonder what's on the other side of a black hole.

Sweet!:D

Has it dawned on them that making particles collide in a perfect controlled setting might end up making the perfect conditions for a black hole or massive explosion?

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... and in other news...

HEY. HOW ABOUT THAT LARGE HARDON COLLIDER.

[Dorktron2000]

They were always designed to underwrite loans under the revised CRA. They would buy them up bundle them and market them to brokerages as government guaranteed loans.

I thought that companies like Countrywide and ResMAE were buying and packing the loans themselves because they couldn't meet the requirements of Freddie and Fannie. It was only in response to the success of such companies that the two GSE's started to take larger gambles and invest in such securities (investment rose significantly in 2006, back when Wachovia's acquisition of Golden West was praised as a brilliant move expanding the bank into an emerging market). While it does highlight the essential flaw in the two corporations, that they never really had to carry acceptable levels of capital, I don't think the problem is rooted in the fact that the two package mortgages.

As an afterthought, the bailout failed because so many people were thinking ahead to the November elections. The leadership of both parties (even conservative boy wonder Eric Cantor) voted for the bailout, it was people in swing districts or freshman facing strong challengers, in both parties, that overwhelmingly voted no.

[Azagthoth]

But the credit market is on the verge of locking up right now, even with central banks pumping money into the system.

I was wondering when anyone was gonna mention that. The Fed Funds target rate is around 2% while the discount window is only about 25 basis points higher. LIBOR overnight rates are around 2.96%. I think the problem isn't the Fed injecting liquidity but interbank lending, they're not too happy with each other. The most interesting thing to me is the flight to treasuries, especially 1, 3, and 6 month T-Bills, with virtually no yield!

Anyone think we'll see a coordinated Fed/ECB easing anytime soon?

[Kevin K]

.... im out a few grand .... oh fun

[Leader Desslock]

... and in other news...

HEY. HOW ABOUT THAT LARGE HARDON COLLIDER.
Down until spring.

Back on the recent spin on the topic - anyone using Pelosi's speech as an excuse not to vote for passage of the bill wasn't really in favor of passing the bill to begin with.

I should rephrase that to reflect part of the truth of this situation...

Anyone who used Pelosi's speech as an excuse to vote against the bill probably didn't really want to have his/her name connected with the passage of the bill.

[Ikari Warrior]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the financial institutions of America are a bunch of big babies? Big Daddy Gov doesn't fix their problems for them, so they throw a tantrum with the Dow dropping 700+ points.

It astounds me how these financial institutions, once deregulated, are perfectly happy to manage themselves until they've corrupted their own assets to the point where owning such assets is cancerous to themselves and the entire industry. Then they want the American Taxpayers (people who may not have even done business with them) to buy their problems from them.

I wish this 700 Billion Dollar "bailout" was a loan with a 20% interest rate that would give each participating taxpayer an additional 20% to that which he contributed. That's a plan I'd be happy with.

[HSaabedra]

Dear Wall Street,

Hi, this is the lobbyist for a group called The Taxpayers, Debtors, and Insured People of the United States. Now that we've rejected the first bailout plan, I'm sure that in the spirit of tough, free market capitalism, and spirited negotiations, you'll consider our second offer. Here are some terms that I'm SURE you will find reasonable:

1) We are willing to loan you money at a very low, introductory rate of 8.9%. If you are even one nanosecond late on your payment, your rate will go from 8.9% to 32.9% instantly. You will have no right to appeal this. The interest rate increase will be retroactive. None of this "but I mailed it out Friday" nonsense. We must get it, and the check must clear, for your payment to count. A reminder: transactions that occur after 2pm are not credited until the next business day, so be sure to make your payments before then.

2) If you are late on any of your other payments to your other creditors, your rate will also be spiked to 32.9%. I know it has nothing to do with us, but if you are late paying someone else, then OBVIOUSLY you are a bigger credit risk to us.

3) We will send you onerous terms and conditions 148,000,000 pages long in 6 point font. Of course, those terms can change on a whim, at any time, so we'll be sending you hourly updates to the contract, which we expect you to read and keep up with. Sorry, we will be the only ones that can amend the contract; you cannot.

4) You will have a predetermined credit line, and if you go over it by even $1, your interest rate will spike to 54.9%. Sorry, it's in the contract on page 109,209,392.

5) The bankruptcy laws have now changed. If you get into a bind, I'm afraid you won't find much sympathy; no more silly excuses will be accepted. We are going to have the titles to all of your buildings and physical assets put in our name, so when the inevitable time comes and you trip up, we'll simply take everything from you. There will be no court hearing.

6) We'll be conducting a background check, driving records check, drug test, and disease risk check of all of the top executives of your firm. After all, you're a riskier loan if you have any of those afflictions, aren't you? Well, if we find ANYTHING wrong, your interest rate will skyrocket, instantly, and without notice.

7) If your business is located in a "bad neighborhood", or a "poor city", or a "hurricane zone", or "flood plane", or "terrorist targeted city", as defined by us, we can raise your interest rates at any time, to any rate we choose.

For the last quarter century or so, you've imposed these terms, or some variation of them on us, when loaning us money or insuring us... arguing every single time that it's "necessary" and that these sorts of changes "will result in more profitable companies that will pass the savings along to consumers". Well, now that we're in the role of lender, and you're in the role of borrower, we're sure that you'll find these same terms fair.

Wall Street, prove the cynics wrong and accept our new plan. Prove to everyone that you're not the hypocrites that everyone thinks you are.

Best regards,

THE TAXPAYERS, DEBTORS, AND INSURED PEOPLES OF THE USA


Offer not valid in all 50 states. Terms, conditions, and interest rates subject to change at any time without notice. Borrower subject to intrusive credit, background, education, and criminal checks before issuance of loan. Upon any dispute, arbitration will be decided by someone tilted to rule in favor of taxpayers, and not by any independent or otherwise objective authority.

:P

The House is up for reelection this November. Is there precedent for placing an entire branch of the Legislative complex under arrest without pay?

[HSaabedra]

Anyone think we'll see a coordinated Fed/ECB easing anytime soon?

I think we'll see a large drop before it eases back to normal, but it's on the hands of banks finding a way to get past the apprehension. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that won't happen until every bank affected just collapses or is purchased for half-cents on the dollarn by BoA or Chase.

[Ikari Warrior]

Dear Wall Street,

...prove the cynics wrong and accept our new plan. Prove to everyone that you're not the hypocrites that everyone thinks you are.

Best regards,

THE TAXPAYERS, DEBTORS, AND INSURED PEOPLES OF THE USA


Offer not valid in all 50 states. Terms, conditions, and interest rates subject to change at any time without notice. Borrower subject to intrusive credit, background, education, and criminal checks before issuance of loan. Upon any dispute, arbitration will be decided by someone tilted to rule in favor of taxpayers, and not by any independent or otherwise objective authority.

:P
Dear Axl,

DAYUM, way to take my caustic tone and really run with it. This honest, law-abiding taxpayer agrees with the above letter, and is optimistic in regard to the response we will receive from Wallstreet.
I guess this is what happens when wallstreet ****s with their investors.

Sincerely,

Shadowcast


The House is up for reelection this November. Is there precedent for placing an entire branch of the Legislative complex under arrest without pay?
That'd be awesome, if not scary.

[goddessofanime]

Dear Wall Street,

Hi, this is the lobbyist for a group called The Taxpayers, Debtors, and Insured People of the United States. Now that we've rejected the first bailout plan, I'm sure that in the spirit of tough, free market capitalism, and spirited negotiations, you'll consider our second offer. Here are some terms that I'm SURE you will find reasonable:

1) We are willing to loan you money at a very low, introductory rate of 8.9%. If you are even one nanosecond late on your payment, your rate will go from 8.9% to 32.9% instantly. You will have no right to appeal this. The interest rate increase will be retroactive. None of this "but I mailed it out Friday" nonsense. We must get it, and the check must clear, for your payment to count. A reminder: transactions that occur after 2pm are not credited until the next business day, so be sure to make your payments before then.

2) If you are late on any of your other payments to your other creditors, your rate will also be spiked to 32.9%. I know it has nothing to do with us, but if you are late paying someone else, then OBVIOUSLY you are a bigger credit risk to us.

3) We will send you onerous terms and conditions 148,000,000 pages long in 6 point font. Of course, those terms can change on a whim, at any time, so we'll be sending you hourly updates to the contract, which we expect you to read and keep up with. Sorry, we will be the only ones that can amend the contract; you cannot.

4) You will have a predetermined credit line, and if you go over it by even $1, your interest rate will spike to 54.9%. Sorry, it's in the contract on page 109,209,392.

5) The bankruptcy laws have now changed. If you get into a bind, I'm afraid you won't find much sympathy; no more silly excuses will be accepted. We are going to have the titles to all of your buildings and physical assets put in our name, so when the inevitable time comes and you trip up, we'll simply take everything from you. There will be no court hearing.

6) We'll be conducting a background check, driving records check, drug test, and disease risk check of all of the top executives of your firm. After all, you're a riskier loan if you have any of those afflictions, aren't you? Well, if we find ANYTHING wrong, your interest rate will skyrocket, instantly, and without notice.

7) If your business is located in a "bad neighborhood", or a "poor city", or a "hurricane zone", or "flood plane", or "terrorist targeted city", as defined by us, we can raise your interest rates at any time, to any rate we choose.

For the last quarter century or so, you've imposed these terms, or some variation of them on us, when loaning us money or insuring us... arguing every single time that it's "necessary" and that these sorts of changes "will result in more profitable companies that will pass the savings along to consumers". Well, now that we're in the role of lender, and you're in the role of borrower, we're sure that you'll find these same terms fair.

Wall Street, prove the cynics wrong and accept our new plan. Prove to everyone that you're not the hypocrites that everyone thinks you are.

Best regards,

THE TAXPAYERS, DEBTORS, AND INSURED PEOPLES OF THE USA


Offer not valid in all 50 states. Terms, conditions, and interest rates subject to change at any time without notice. Borrower subject to intrusive credit, background, education, and criminal checks before issuance of loan. Upon any dispute, arbitration will be decided by someone tilted to rule in favor of taxpayers, and not by any independent or otherwise objective authority.

:P

The House is up for reelection this November. Is there precedent for placing an entire branch of the Legislative complex under arrest without pay?


What he said.

[Bernard_Monsha]

A treasury offical had a severe case of anterior orbital flatulence and and told the truth (http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html).

You know where that very important $700-billion figure came from?

Here's a quote from that Forbes story:

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.

And it worked. (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/bailout-plan.html)

And the surest sign of the apocalypse a cranberry shortage! (http://www.beveragedaily.com/Publications/Food-Beverage-Nutrition/FoodNavigatorUSA/Financial-Industry/Demand-for-cranberries-close-to-outstripping-supply)

[Ikari Warrior]

I suddenly feel a sense of satisfaction, that 700B was way too high.

And simultaneously, I feel a sense of sadness, that I was right, and the politicians just made it up.

Of course, Bush is going to get pegged for this, even though it's not his fault entirely. I think the bill might've passed if he were a better president the REST of his term and didn't involve us in a war that drained what COULD HAVE BEEN a financial bailout.

And no, calling it a "rescue" doesn't make it any better. Those a-holes can save, and screw, themselves.

[animeotaku99]

but a financial bailout such as this is very socialistic. I don't know about you but I don't liek socialism I work for what I need. and I place most of the plan on the banks giving out large home loans to ghetto families that have no chance of making the payments. The rest of the blame I place on Congress since they haven't gotten anything done in the past year or two sine Peloski

[Caster13]

It's kind of a no win situation with that law about loans. If it wasn't for that loan then a bunch of the people who run the banks wouldn't give loans because of things like racism, but now because of that law we're in this little mess.

There really is no chance for a medium, is there?

[animeotaku99]

what... so it is like affirmative action with loans now? If a poor person can't afford the interest of a loan you shouldn't give it to them just because they are black, mexican, ect. that is even more racists if you ask me

[iwakura]

I was wondering when anyone was gonna mention that. The Fed Funds target rate is around 2% while the discount window is only about 25 basis points higher. LIBOR overnight rates are around 2.96%. I think the problem isn't the Fed injecting liquidity but interbank lending, they're not too happy with each other. The most interesting thing to me is the flight to treasuries, especially 1, 3, and 6 month T-Bills, with virtually no yield!

Anyone think we'll see a coordinated Fed/ECB easing anytime soon?

Does a formal interest rate adjustment apply to what's broken?

What we have now is a weird lock-up with banks not lending to each other because of defaults caused by mortgage derivative crap debt.

Perhaps what they are worried about is this spreading into the Credit Default Swap (CDS) market. That explains why AIG was bailed out. The CDS market might be too big bail out, since it's bigger than everything else combined. Just how in the h3ll does one de-leverage that? 700 billion is a firewall to contain this crisis so it keeps out of CDS.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/02/17/business/20080217_SWAP_1_GRAPHIC.html

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/02/17/business/20080217_SWAP_2_GRAPHIC.html

Or perhaps they are worried about this spreading to international participation in US treasury auctions. If the treasury auction fails, doesn't that mean hyperinflation of the US dollar?

[Rurouni Saiyan]

New 'sweetened' bill passed today for the bailout. The 'sweetened' version has $110B tack on to it.

[Hara!]

New 'sweetened' bill passed today for the bailout. The 'sweetened' version has $110B tack on to it.

The House changed their minds?

[Bernard_Monsha]

New 'sweetened' bill passed today for the bailout. The 'sweetened' version has $110B tack on to it.

We need those toy wooden arrow subsidies for defense and commerce!

[Ikari Warrior]

This comes as no surprise to anyone, but Congress had a hearing with the CEO of Lehman brothers, and they came begging the gov for a piece of that 700B bailout, and all the while squandering millions of dollars in EXECUTIVE BONUSES and magically depleting $10 Billion in capital.

Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_lehman

[Caster13]

This comes as no surprise to anyone, but Congress had a hearing with the CEO of Lehman brothers, and they came begging the gov for a piece of that 700B bailout, and all the while squandering millions of dollars in EXECUTIVE BONUSES and magically depleting $10 Billion in capital.

Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_lehman

Figures.

This kind of crap and more is totally why I'm voting for Obama.

[HSaabedra]

This comes as no surprise to anyone, but Congress had a hearing with the CEO of Lehman brothers, and they came begging the gov for a piece of that 700B bailout, and all the while squandering millions of dollars in EXECUTIVE BONUSES and magically depleting $10 Billion in capital.

Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_lehman

The hearing is being covered live by CNBC and its streaming live on their site as I type and submit this.

TL;DR on what's going on now:

Market correction+loss of confidence in FedGov+ credit market panic= Why the Dow is sinking below 9500 and oil is crashing on top of dollar regaining strength.

As far as the Lehman CEO is concerned he's lost $700 million of personal net worth and he's still alive, let alone addressing Congress. That to me shows that he's less of a coward than the rest of the people responsible for this mess who are being let off scot-free.

[Bernard_Monsha]

^

When is the former head of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as all the people in congress who oversaw and regulated it going to be on the hotseat?

[HSaabedra]

^
When is the former head of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as all the people in congress who oversaw and regulated it going to be on the hotseat?

Short answer: Never.

The Lehman CEO has the least to do with the whole mess and they're using the guy as a scapegoat to shield the real players from the testimony.

[Ikari Warrior]

Short answer: Never.

The Lehman CEO has the least to do with the whole mess and they're using the guy as a scapegoat to shield the real players from the testimony.

That scores it, I'm voting LaRouche!

[HSaabedra]

Best Economist Cover EVAR (http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/consumerist/2008/10/economistoh****.jpg)

[Ikari Warrior]

Why is the price of gas going down? It was 3.69 around here a couple weeks ago, but in the past couple weeks (since the meltdown) it's now down to 3.49/gal. If our economy is floundering, why is gas getting cheaper? I'd think if our dollars were worth less, the cost of oil would go up, relatively speaking, and we'd be looking at 4+/gal by now.

I know there is not a simple answer, but if anyone can provide one (or a site that can adequately explain) I'd appreciate.

[HSaabedra]

Why is the price of gas going down? It was 3.69 around here a couple weeks ago, but in the past couple weeks (since the meltdown) it's now down to 3.49/gal. If our economy is floundering, why is gas getting cheaper? I'd think if our dollars were worth less, the cost of oil would go up, relatively speaking, and we'd be looking at 4+/gal by now.

I know there is not a simple answer, but if anyone can provide one (or a site that can adequately explain) I'd appreciate.

Due to the fallout from the markets and the increasing jobless claims, the markets are reacting to the perceived decrease in demand for gas as the situation plays out further ahead of right now.

[Ikari Warrior]

Due to the fallout from the markets and the increasing jobless claims, the markets are reacting to the perceived decrease in demand for gas as the situation plays out further ahead of right now.

Oh, a simple drop in demand. I hadn't thought of that.

[Caster13]

W/E, gas is going down at almost 2 cents every day or every other day at one gas station by me. By the end of the month it will be pretty well below $3 a gallon. Now THAT I have no problem with!:w00t:

[Rurouni Saiyan]

Dow closes at 14,164 on October 9, 2007

Today, it closes at 8,579 on October 9, 2008

We all got a ticket to the First Class cabin of the Economic Fail Express. All Aboard!!! *choo-choo*

[Bernard_Monsha]

I think it will bottom out around 7K then go up. The volatility now is from hedge funds being sold by foreign investors. I think I will drop a couple of grand in Ford and GM as I expect them to rise after the bottom is reached, credit flows freely again, and gas prices drop to reasonable rates.

[superplough]

It's under NINE THOUSAAAAAND!

[Caster13]

hm, gas in a little over $77 a barrel. gas price average is $3.21......wait a second, HOW many gallons are in a barrel of oil again?

[Azagthoth]

hm, gas in a little over $77 a barrel. gas price average is $3.21......wait a second, HOW many gallons are in a barrel of oil again?

42 US Gallons.

[Caster13]

*does math*.......That should be $1.83 a gallon. What. The. ****?

[Bernard_Monsha]

*does math*.......That should be $1.83 a gallon. What. The. ****?

Does your car magically run on crude oil? Do you go and try to take a bite out of a living cow with a handful of un-husked wheat in your mouth for a hamburger? Do you understand yet?

[HSaabedra]

Does your car magically run on crude oil? Do you go and try to take a bite out of a living cow with a handful of un-husked wheat in your mouth for a hamburger? Do you understand yet?

Ignore him. His high school failed to teach critical thinking.

[Jon]

^:lol: Well, despite the struggling economy, I'm enjoying filling up my tank at $2.97 a gallon.

[Old Ape Face]

^:lol: Well, despite the struggling economy, I'm enjoying filling up my tank at $2.97 a gallon.

Connecticut's still in the 3 dollar mark, but I can live with that.

[Caster13]

It's not that. The last time it was this much a gallon of oil gas was still much less expensive. This was like a couple of years ago. When gas was like $2.40. If only gas got that low again....a man can dream.

Actually, the whole world can dream about THAT.

[Old Ape Face]

It's not that. The last time it was this much a gallon of oil gas was still much less expensive. This was like a couple of years ago. When gas was like $2.40. If only gas got that low again....a man can dream.

Actually, the whole world can dream about THAT.

2.80 in some places in my state, and it's going down too.

[Raziel_MGS]

$2.75 in INDY, this bailout is SO COOOOOOOOL!

[Caster13]

Only when it comes to that. In phoenix a lot of places have just gone below $3.20. But there are an increasing amount of stations going below the $3 mark. I saw a Pilot station that was $3.02 the other day on my way to Best Buy since the one by me had a small fire in it and was closed. Pilot is always cheaper. I turned onto that exit FAST.

And Raziel, I drove through the Midwest on my way out here. I know that you guys have cheaper gas than a lot of the country, so stfu.:'( However you guys also have some REALLY small towns.:P

I predict by the beginning of next month gas will drop to just above $2.80 for me. I blame my proximity to CA for the higher gas prices.:mad:

[The Million Dollar Prons]

hm, gas in a little over $77 a barrel. gas price average is $3.21......wait a second, HOW many gallons are in a barrel of oil again?

3.21 where the hell do you live it's approaching 4 dollars in my town.

[Caster13]

You live in California, your prices are in a totally different league compared to practically everyone else (except Hawaii). The NATIONAL average is around that price. Less by now.

Which doesn't make sense, cause there's no way it costs that much to refine crude oil into gas. Talk about stealing.

I wonder what the prices in Europe are like now?

[goddessofanime]

It's still 3.00 in PA.

[Caster13]

It's still 3.00 in PA.

It will go below that eventually.

Actually once a few more states go below 3 bucks then many others will follow. Hopefully it gets low enough all over so once winter comes gas won't go back up TOO high.

At least for now I can get 7 gallons out of 20 bucks.:w00t: That was so awesome to see that on the gas pump.

[Caster13]

Hm, well it was only a matter of time before someone did it. Looks like ACORN was trying to rig the election.

[animeotaku99]

ok... so all of this money that people lost from their 401k's... where did it go?

[Old Ape Face]

ok... so all of this money that people lost from their 401k's... where did it go?

to pay off this bail.

[Caster13]

to pay off this bail.

Man, you'd think the most powerful country in the world would have SOME intelligent people in it's government.<_< So much for that Ivy League education. Wait, I forgot that those people's rich parents bribed the school for them to get in.:lol:

[superplough]

Today the first financial institution in NZ closed from this economic crises. Money Mart Direct. However, they're only a small time money lender so yeah.

[KabukiSaMuRaI]

Today the first financial institution in NZ closed from this economic crises. Money Mart Direct. However, they're only a small time money lender so yeah.

Dominoes....

Man, you'd think the most powerful country in the world would have SOME intelligent people in it's government.<_< So much for that Ivy League education. Wait, I forgot that those people's rich parents bribed the school for them to get in.:lol:

Ssssshhhhh...stop giving away their secrets. ;)

[Caster13]

On a side note, gas continues to drop. It's below $3 a gas station close to me now. And I hear that by the end of November the average gas price in the country is supposed to drop down to around $2.50. This. Is. EPIC!!:w00t::punch: If the awesome thread was still around then this would be included in it, along with multiple pics of super low gas prices.

[Xhalen]

It's $2.72 where I live and I'm sure it'll go down some more, I'm curious to see what heating bills will be like in the coming months.

[Jon]

It's 2.46 in my area :)

[Caster13]

It's 2.46 in my area :)

What state is that? Cause I'll pack my bags in half an hour.

Wow, you might get about $2.08 a gallon by the end of next month. YOU LUCKY BASTARD!!!:$%&#!::crybaby:

[shinri]

Gas prices dropped to below a dollar/litre for the first time since Feb. here, but as of next year, our municipal water bills will be jacked up 9%, so in my mind, the cost of living hasn't changed at all where I live.