gas prices....whats all the fuss???

[anime____4ever]

i understand that gas prices are high, but i'm soooooooo tired of all the gas drama. people are acting as if gas is at like $8-10 a gallon.

it only costs me about $10 more to fill up my tank now than it did year ago.
also, the average person only fills up thier tank 2-4 times a month. thats only about $20-40 more per month (on average) you are paying in gas, big deal.

30 bucks a month shouldn't make or brake you, and if it does, then you need to think about getting another or different job.

i can uderstand how the state of the economy is effecting the poor or lower-middle class, but i don't see how the gas and the minor increase in prices of other products are effecting anyone else.
for example, just the other day......
i was at the gas pump, and this guy driving a Mercedes clk 06-08 on another pump says to me
"man can you belive these gas prices, they're gonna put me in the poor house"
i was like wtf are you talking about???

i would say i'm middle class and the economy isn't bothering me much at all, so whats rich guy clk complaining about???

[tenshi_a]

I just did some currency converting to find out prices, and it's currently about $8.83 US dollars per gallon in the petrol station opposite my house here in jolly old England. That's including tax (which is most of the price).

Lots of hauliers are really struggling, as a juggernaut delivering food around the country costs something like £300 more to fill its tank than it did not long ago, so that pushes up the price of food... same applies for everything that's delivered by a vehicle that runs on a fuel that's suddenly become more expensive. That pushes the price of everything up.

[Gray]

I just did some currency converting to find out prices, and it's currently about $8.83 US dollars per gallon in the petrol station opposite my house here in jolly old England. That's including tax (which is most of the price).

Lots of hauliers are really struggling, as a juggernaut delivering food around the country costs something like £300 more to fill its tank than it did not long ago, so that pushes up the price of food... same applies for everything that's delivered by a vehicle that runs on a fuel that's suddenly become more expensive. That pushes the price of everything up.

It's about 3.80 - 4$ per gallon here.

[tenshi_a]

There's a load of rubbish being spouted by politicians here, saying people should not be using their cars, but be using public transport to get around. Save the environment. And I do. However, I think you need to be pretty rich to travel on public transport. It costs £45 ($87.50 USD) for me to visit my parents 120 miles away by train. It costs £1.40 ($2.70 USD) for me to travel 2 miles to work in the morning by bus. I think that's still too much money to be an incentive to use public transport.

(So I normally walk home to save money. Plus, exercise is good for you!)

[anime____4ever]

I just did some currency converting to find out prices, and it's currently about $8.83 US dollars per gallon in the petrol station opposite my house here in jolly old England. That's including tax (which is most of the price).

Lots of hauliers are really struggling, as a juggernaut delivering food around the country costs something like £300 more to fill its tank than it did not long ago, so that pushes up the price of food... same applies for everything that's delivered by a vehicle that runs on a fuel that's suddenly become more expensive. That pushes the price of everything up.

i do understand this, and i do know that the prices of everything has been driven up. just slightly though.

i'm not saying that the economy isn't bad right now.
i'm just saying that its not as bad as people and the news are making it out to be.
as i said, people are acting and making such a fuss, even the RICH people......you would think that gas is like $10 (U.S.) a gallon right now.

[Tom Servo]

i do understand this, and i do know that the prices of everything has been driven up. just slightly though.
Some items have doubled in price. I noticed that with bananas.

Overall I'd say the shopping bill has increased by at least 20% for me.

[taily]

. people are acting as if gas is at like $8-10 a gallon.


over in the UK, it's more than that. you americans are whiners, we have a REAL reason to complain :P.

[Sushikins]

I don't really mind, because my car has a small tank and great gas millage, but when you consider that I still pay $40+ every 4-5 days for gas, that builds up, even for me, and when you take into account people who get less gas millage or have bigger tanks, you can see why they're making a fuss. (Also, many are used to the good old days where gas was, ya know, less than $2 or $3).

I wish I could get away with 2-4 fill-ups a month, but that was when I was being a lazy unemployed person, now I have to drive at least 70 miles a day because of work.

Anyway, I don't mind paying it, and the worse it gets, the more inclined somebody will probably be to step in and try and fix up our economy.

[anime____4ever]

over in the UK, it's more than that. you americans are whiners, we have a REAL reason to complain :P.

yeah, i know. thats what i'm saying.
people are whining over here sooooooo much it, has become absurd.

@Tom Servo

just curious, but where do you live, and how many times per month do you do food shopping??
20% increase seem albit much.

also, maybe bannanas are up just bcause of the time of year. fruit does tend to do that. (however i don't really keep track of fruit prices so i have no clue)

@ sushikins

70miles a day is reeeeeeealy high. thats like about 25,000 miles per year. i don't think most americans drive that much.
hell most leases will only allow like 15,000 miles per year.

[Tom Servo]

just curious, but where do you live,
Around 30 miles away from London.

and how many times per month do you do food shopping??
Once a week, so 4 times a month.

[Nathan-the-Axe]

**** the environment. I drive everywhere, even if it is just a block away, in my huge gas guzzling SUV. Suck on that, peace and love hippies.

[Holy Knight]

Here in Quebec, if you have to drive around a lot, it can cost you 500$ per month, easily. Prices are currently at 1.5$ per liter, so that's about 5.63$ per gallon. Just for my father's van, it costs 100$ to fill up one full tank. It's getting ridiculous.

I take public transit, but it takes a long time to get anywhere even though it's more economical. Governments are urging more passengers to take it, but I just can't see the system being able to accommodate everyone. It's slow enough as it is.

[Old Ape Face]

When I hear people complain that they have to pay 100 bucks to fill there tank on a regular basis, I feel good knowing I only spent 50 to fill mine.

And I'm lucky I only have to travel at minimum 20 miles a day, depending on what I'm doing between School and work.

one fill up lasts me about 2 weeks on this millage so I feel lucky.

[Tom Servo]

Here in Quebec, if you have to drive around a lot, it can cost you 500$ per month, easily. Prices are currently at 1.5$ per liter, so that's about 5.63$ per gallon. Just for my father's van, it costs 100$ to fill up one full tank. It's getting ridiculous.
Now imagine paying a little under double that/

[DavenIII]

the average person only fills up thier tank 2-4 times a month.

I fill up 2 times a week at least.

thats only about $20-40 more per month (on average) you are paying in gas, big deal.

80$-100$ per month for me since LAST YEAR... the point is I've been driving to the same job for 5 years, so its 100 dollars more since last year but its more like 200$+ (It was a gradual but fast change I don't remember what I "Used" to pay) since 5 years ago.

30 bucks a month shouldn't make or brake you, and if it does, then you need to think about getting another or different job.

what about 200+ dollars a month?


what number is allowed to make or break you? in your opinion.

i can uderstand how the state of the economy is effecting the poor or lower-middle class, but i don't see how the gas and the minor increase in prices of other products are effecting anyone else.
for example, just the other day......
i was at the gas pump, and this guy driving a Mercedes clk 06-08 on another pump says to me
"man can you belive these gas prices, they're gonna put me in the poor house"
i was like wtf are you talking about???

i would say i'm middle class and the economy isn't bothering me much at all, so whats rich guy clk complaining about???

He's complaining about the amount its increasing in this short period of time, it is increasing quickly, if it were to stay at this rate of increase in a few years it will be putting EVERYONE in the poor house....maybe not right now but at this rate of increase it eventually will.



(Filler...)

[Naraku]

i do understand this, and i do know that the prices of everything has been driven up. just slightly though.

i'm not saying that the economy isn't bad right now.
i'm just saying that its not as bad as people and the news are making it out to be.
as i said, people are acting and making such a fuss, even the RICH people......you would think that gas is like $10 (U.S.) a gallon right now.

Uh, people like saving money, and not spending so much. When you're spending you know ~$200 more per month than you were a few years ago, that's a pretty big deal. You act like everyone just has extra cash to throw around, which people don't. Prices are going up faster than wages, so it's a struggle for a LOT of people. Also, not everyone is able to just go out and get a better paying job.

And the upper class can complain too, it's not like all of them are just sitting on stacks of money either - they have payments to make just like everyone else.

[Old Ape Face]

Uh, people like saving money, and not spending so much. When you're spending you know ~$200 more per month than you were a few years ago, that's a pretty big deal. You act like everyone just has extra cash to throw around, which people don't. Prices are going up faster than wages, so it's a struggle for a LOT of people. Also, not everyone is able to just go out and get a better paying job.

And the upper class can complain too, it's not like all of them are just sitting on stacks of money either - they have payments to make just like everyone else.

Yeah but the thing is, sometimes the higher upper class can take the gas prises to their advantage, (Take gas coupons at grocery stores for example). While the upper class may have to pay taxes just like everyone else, they also have creditability for makeing gas prices to go even higher and they make a profit out of doing it.

This is a prime time for investors to make a lot of money if they play their cards right. Also they're investing in alternate energy sources.

[shuureigirl]

Its not just gas prices. Outside of our (U.S.) standard of living already being so high to begin with, and increase in gas prices also means an increase in almost everything else.

For those who are poo-pooing the idea of people mad about gas prices: Try feeding a family of 5 on $18,000 a year in the U.S. and barely being able to pay your rent. Tell that person it's no big deal and you may have a black eye the next day. My dad spent $400+ last month just for his vehicle for gas.

[DavenIII]

This is a prime time for investors to make a lot of money if they play their cards right. Also they're investing in alternate energy sources.

Anyone can invest, you don't have to be rich. Obviously being rich helps but even if your middle class you can make sacrifices in other areas to put together a decent amount to by a small portion of stock, and if you pick the right stock it'll increase and you can buy more of another "good" stock.

[anime____4ever]

Uh, people like saving money, and not spending so much.

yeah, i know. trust me, i KNOW. that is one of my main reasons behide my thinking of fansubs are hurting the industry as much as they are.

When you're spending you know ~$200 more per month than you were a few years ago, that's a pretty big deal

as i said, i can see how $200 a month (imo 200 is a little high, but whatever) would be trouble for the poor and lower-middle class it is. i don't see why someone that makes 100k+ would complain though.

You act like everyone just has extra cash to throw around, which people don't.

if you consider yourself middle class or higher, but don't have an extra 200 bucks to lose per month, then i don't think you're middle class or higher. OR you have poor money management skills.

Prices are going up faster than wages, so it's a struggle for a LOT of people.

it's a stuggle, but just for the poor or lower-middle class.

Also, not everyone is able to just go out and get a better paying job.

no, but anyone can go get a second job easy enough.
hell somone could go be a waiter, and only work 10-12hrs a week. they would still bring home an extra $300-500 a week. (i've been a waiter at like 5 different places in the past)

And the upper class can complain too, it's not like all of them are just sitting on stacks of money either - they have payments to make just like everyone else.

if someone is in the upper class, and they make (lets just say) 100k a year or more, but are hurting now because of gas and such.......
then they are squandering their money and get no sympathy from me.

maybe mr. rich guy should buy a 250k house rather then spread himself thin and buy the 750K house.
hell, if i was making 100k a year, you bet your *** i'd be sitting on stacks of money.

@ shuureigirl

as i have said, the poor and lower-middle class do have a right to complain. i can see how it's hard on them. $18,000 a year fits into that category.

[Trefellin]

over in the UK, it's more than that. you americans are whiners, we have a REAL reason to complain :P.

There are tons of people who commute to work from the suburbs every day in North America. Every morning and evening there's a snake of cars going between Toronto and Barrie. That's a distance of 55 miles. So, every day they drive 110 miles between work and home.

[DavenIII]

if you consider yourself middle class or higher, but don't have an extra 200 bucks to lose per month, then i don't think you're middle class or higher. OR you have poor money management skills.

You obviously do not own your own house and pay for your own children say to go to college or anything, you don't pay for electric/heating water cable telephone Internet car insurance.

It seems obvious to me that you are a kid who doesn't really understand what "Paying the Bills" really is.




(Filler...)

[DavenIII]

There are tons of people who commute to work from the suburbs every day in North America. Every morning and evening there's a snake of cars going between Toronto and Barrie. That's a distance of 55 miles. So, every day they drive 110 miles between work and home.

I'm only 64 miles... of course my car only gets 14 miles to the gallon thats what really killing me....and before the OMG get a different car screams.... it Floods where I work... very badly I have a Jeep Wrangler so I don't lose ANOTHER car to the floods like I did 2 years ago.

[Dorktron2000]

All it takes is one person in your household getting hospitalized and needing extensive outpatient care (medication, rehabilitation, etc.) to really screw up even an upper middle class household.

Also, once you earn $100k+ the government in the US starts taking 30% of your income off the top, then you have local and state taxes. It adds up quickly.

[anime____4ever]

You obviously do not own your own house and pay for your own children say to go to college or anything, you don't pay for electric/heating water cable telephone Internet car insurance.

It seems obvious to me that you are a kid who doesn't really understand what "Paying the Bills" really is.

i'm 28 and my fiance' and i are currently paying all the bills and a morgage for a condo we bought last year. we are also about to pay for a wedding soon.
in addition neither of us own our cars yet, we are still paying for them.
i also drive about 80 miles per day (granted i have a yaris)
also, we have decided to wait on children because we can't afford them yet.

i just happen to manage my money well and don't squander it.
personaly i think good money management is the sign of an adult, not a kid.

[Trefellin]

All it takes is one person in your household getting hospitalized and needing extensive outpatient care (medication, rehabilitation, etc.) to really screw up even an upper middle class household.

Well then, what the hell happens when the same happens to a working class family?!

[Bernard_Monsha]

There's a load of rubbish being spouted by politicians here, saying people should not be using their cars, but be using public transport to get around. Save the environment. And I do. However, I think you need to be pretty rich to travel on public transport. It costs £45 ($87.50 USD) for me to visit my parents 120 miles away by train. It costs £1.40 ($2.70 USD) for me to travel 2 miles to work in the morning by bus. I think that's still too much money to be an incentive to use public transport.

(So I normally walk home to save money. Plus, exercise is good for you!)

Ofcourse they want you to use public transportation, it puts money in their pockets and gives them another way to control you. They have to have money to fund garbage sorting nazi's who lurk about charging you for having to much garbage in the bin.

Some items have doubled in price. I noticed that with bananas.

Overall I'd say the shopping bill has increased by at least 20% for me.

Everything has gone up around 15 to 20% here as well. While it does not effect first worlders that much it is devastating in the third world were 5 cents means you eat or go hungry.

over in the UK, it's more than that. you americans are whiners, we have a REAL reason to complain :P.

No you don't have to complain. Your prices are so high because you vote idiots who put $5.20 tax on your petrol.

[taily]

No you don't have to complain. Your prices are so high because you vote idiots who put $5.20 tax on your petrol.

Yeah, thats true. But to be fair to the goverment, last year everyone was all "OMFG DAT IS SOOOOO GOOD 4 TEH ENVIROMENT!!!!!!" but now there's the credit crunch, "ZOMG Y DA HELL IZ DAT TAX SO HIGH IT UNFAIR."

But americans still whine to much.

[Dorktron2000]

Well then, what the hell happens when the same happens to a working class family?!

It's worse. I'm not denying that it's tough for working class people; I'm just pointing out that finances can become a lot tighter for a variety of unforseen reasons.

[Naraku]

yeah, i know. trust me, i KNOW. that is one of my main reasons behide my thinking of fansubs are hurting the industry as much as they are.

What? We weren't talking about fan subs.

as i said, i can see how $200 a month (imo 200 is a little high, but whatever) would be trouble for the poor and lower-middle class it is. i don't see why someone that makes 100k+ would complain though.

You act like 100k is a lot. Most middle class families barely make that, and that is with combined income. Also, the $200 more a month isn't a high estimate, it really depends on what kind of vehicle you drive as well. With my car, that gets great gas mileage, I easily pay over $100 more than I did a few years ago. If you owned a truck or SUV of some type, you'd be paying well over $200 more.

if you consider yourself middle class or higher, but don't have an extra 200 bucks to lose per month, then i don't think you're middle class or higher. OR you have poor money management skills.

A lot of people's wealth and status is determined by debt moreso than income.

it's a stuggle, but just for the poor or lower-middle class.

That's a pretty jaded view to have, the price increases effects everyone! I consider my family to be upper middle class, and I can tell you that money is tight now.

no, but anyone can go get a second job easy enough.
hell somone could go be a waiter, and only work 10-12hrs a week. they would still bring home an extra $300-500 a week. (i've been a waiter at like 5 different places in the past)

Some people could, but most don't want to when they are already working a full time job and over time.

if someone is in the upper class, and they make (lets just say) 100k a year or more, but are hurting now because of gas and such.......
then they are squandering their money and get no sympathy from me.

Again, 100k a year does not make you upper class, not even close. 100k is not as much as you think, either. It's barely enough for comfort, but definitely not luxury.

maybe mr. rich guy should buy a 250k house rather then spread himself thin and buy the 750K house.
hell, if i was making 100k a year, you bet your *** i'd be sitting on stacks of money.

@ shuureigirl

as i have said, the poor and lower-middle class do have a right to complain. i can see how it's hard on them. $18,000 a year fits into that category.

Filler, that's right Daven, I stole your style!

[anime____4ever]

All it takes is one person in your household getting hospitalized and needing extensive outpatient care (medication, rehabilitation, etc.) to really screw up even an upper middle class household.

anyone uper middle class or higher should have a GOOD heath insurance plan.
if they don't, thats thier fault.

Also, once you earn $100k+ the government in the US starts taking 30% of your income off the top, then you have local and state taxes. It adds up quickly.

first, taxes hurt the lower classes more imo. they don't have as much money to loose, but the gov still takes like 15%.
second, even if you are only making 65k after taxes, you should still have plenty of money stitting around.

the problem with the wealthy is that they tend to squander their money. they do stuff like buy a 750K house, even though the 300K one would be just fine for them. or they buy the 60K car, instead of the 40-30k one.
maybe if they managed thier money better they wouldn't have a problem. so they get no sympathy from me.

[anime____4ever]

What? We weren't talking about fan subs.

nope, i just had them on the mind because of another thread.

You act like 100k is a lot.

if you don't think 100K is a lot, then you must be spoiled/rich.

That's a pretty jaded view to have, the price increases effects everyone! I consider my family to be upper middle class, and I can tell you that money is tight now.

if money is tight for someone upper-middle class, then you probably aren't managing your money correctly.

Some people could, but most don't want to when they are already working a full time job and over time.

you gotta do what you gotta do. if you can't support yourself, you need to do somthing about it. it doesn't matter if you "want to" or not. hell, i don't want to work at all.

Again, 100k a year does not make you upper class, not even close. 100k is not as much as you think, either. It's barely enough for comfort, but definitely not luxury.

well let me tell you, i make less than 45k a year and i live in comfort juuuuust fine. my fiance' makes about the same as me.
we don't own the "dream" everything, but we are getting buy just fine. i'm also managing to put about 15-20K in the bank every year for savings.
upper class or not, i would have more money than i would know what to do with if a made 100K a year.

try telling someone that only makes 18-20k a year that 100k is "barely enough for comfort"......they would slap ya.
if you REALLY think 100K is barely enough for comfort, then you MUST be spoiled or you are simply trying to live beyond your means.

[Trefellin]

try telling someone that only makes 18-20k a year that 100k is "barely enough for comfort"......they would slap ya.
if you REALLY think 100K is barely enough for comfort, then you MUST be spoiled or you are simply trying to live beyond your means.

That's very true. My mother raised three boys on 20k a year, living in subsidized housing. She made sure we were comfortable. I'd like to hear some peoples definitions of "comfort."

[Naraku]

nope, i just had them on the mind because of another thread.



if you don't think 100K is a lot, then you must be spoiled/rich.



if money is tight for someone upper-middle class, then you probably aren't managing your money correctly.



you gotta do what you gotta do. if you can't support yourself, you need to do somthing about it. it doesn't matter if you "want to" or not. hell, i don't want to work at all.



well let me tell you, i make less than 45k a year and i live in comfort juuuuust fine. my fiance' makes about the same as me.
we don't own the "dream" everything, but we are getting buy just fine. i'm also managing to put about 15-20K in the bank every year for savings.
upper class or not, i would have more money than i would know what to do with if a made 100K a year.

try telling someone that only makes 18-20k a year that 100k is "barely enough for comfort"......they would slap ya.
if you REALLY think 100K is barely enough for comfort, then you MUST be spoiled or you are simply trying to live beyond your means.

Well let me tell you, that I'm happy for you if you live fine, not everyone is that lucky. I grew up extremely poor, if you wanted to know, since you assume I'm spoiled or something. My family has managed to move to the middle class in recent years, and it was only possible by accumulating a lot of debt in the process. This is the case for many many middle class people who are trying to better their lives, and their family's lives. Like I said before debt more often than not determines wealth more than income does. And, being in debt isn't always poor money management, it's also trying to provide for a family.

I do think 100k is good money, but you're making it seem like you can do so much more with it than you can. Maybe it's because you don't have any children yet, but when you have to provide for say two children, your money will become stretched if you want to try and provide the best for them(which I'm assuming you do). Sure 100k is good money, especially if you can make it by yourself, and it would provide great for a two person family. I hope one day I can find a job that will allow me to make that much, in fact it's a goal.

[HSaabedra]

anyone uper middle class or higher should have a GOOD heath insurance plan.
if they don't, thats thier fault.

You're a bleeding idiot and I'll explain why.

The current healthcare system in the US is designed around employers by buying coverage from the many providers in the country (AEtna, Pacificare, etc.) If the company is not large enough to shoulder the cost of offering coverage to its employees, then there's no other option than individual coverage which is 2-4x more expensive than the equivalent company sponsored plan.

As an example I pay almost $550 a month for medical/dental/vision coverage for myself, my mother, her husband, and my sister, through my current employer where I formerly paid $2000 per month for coverage on my own, so you see the difference?

first, taxes hurt the lower classes more imo. they don't have as much money to loose, but the gov still takes like 15%.
second, even if you are only making 65k after taxes, you should still have plenty of money stitting around.

This is ******** pure and simple because you're not taking into account the cost of other expenses such as groceries, housing, and utilities. all of which have gone up by a factor of four.

the problem with the wealthy is that they tend to squander their money. they do stuff like buy a 750K house, even though the 300K one would be just fine for them. or they buy the 60K car, instead of the 40-30k one.
maybe if they managed thier money better they wouldn't have a problem. so they get no sympathy from me.

You believe everything the media tells you?

[Bernard_Monsha]

try telling someone that only makes 18-20k a year that 100k is "barely enough for comfort"......they would slap ya.
if you REALLY think 100K is barely enough for comfort, then you MUST be spoiled or you are simply trying to live beyond your means.

You do understand that the cost of living is different in different places. I currently do pretty well at my current occupation easily living under my goal of 70% of my income. If I moved to another area I would definately not be able to maintain my current standard of living and would probably be skimping by. 100K in NYC or the Napa Valley is not the same as 100K in BFE Missisippi.

[Xhalen]

Hmm, whether you're willing to see it or not, there are a lot of people having a hard time right now and it's not necessarily due to poor money management. It's great that you can shrug off increasing prices in gas and food but some people just can't.

[anime____4ever]

Well let me tell you, that I'm happy for you if you live fine, not everyone is that lucky. I grew up extremely poor, if you wanted to know, since you assume I'm spoiled or something.

sorry i misread you, i assumed with the way you were talking that you or your family had lots of cash.

My family has managed to move to the middle class in recent years, and it was only possible by accumulating a lot of debt in the process. This is the case for many many middle class people who are trying to better their lives, and their family's lives. Like I said before debt more often than not determines wealth more than income does. And, being in debt isn't always poor money management, it's also trying to provide for a family.

understood.
however, what i''m saying is that people the DO make good money (like 100K or more) are only squandering it if they are having money issues. i'm assuming that since your family just recently hit the "middle class" area, that your parents don't make 100k or more.
if someone that makes 20k a year can manage to support a family (like Trefellins mom) then someone that makes 100k+ should have no trouble at all.

I do think 100k is good money, but you're making it seem like you can do so much more with it than you can. Maybe it's because you don't have any children yet, but when you have to provide for say two children, your money will become stretched if you want to try and provide the best for them(which I'm assuming you do).Sure 100k is good money, especially if you can make it by yourself, and it would provide great for a two person family.

my mother (single mom for the past 18 years or so btw) makes about 75K, and she managed to raise 2 kids and give us the things we wanted without much trouble. so i can only imagine what she could have done with more.
100k should get ya by just fine if you manage it.
whitch is why i get sooooo annoyed hearing people with plenty of money (upper-middle or better)
complain about they economy and gas prices.

I hope one day I can find a job that will allow me to make that much, in fact it's a goal.

i hope you acheive that someday, good luck.

[anime____4ever]

You're a bleeding idiot and I'll explain why.

that makes you sound grown up, and makes people want to listen to you too....good job.

The current healthcare system in the US is designed around employers by buying coverage from the many providers in the country (AEtna, Pacificare, etc.) If the company is not large enough to shoulder the cost of offering coverage to its employees, then there's no other option than individual coverage which is 2-4x more expensive than the equivalent company sponsored plan.

As an example I pay almost $550 a month for medical/dental/vision coverage for myself, my mother, her husband, and my sister, through my current employer where I formerly paid $2000 per month for coverage on my own, so you see the difference?

if you are upper-middle class, or make over 100K a year you shouldn't have any trouble with your health care plan.
i make less than 45k and i pay my own heath and dental just fine.
so if i can do it. rich people can do it.

This is ******** pure and simple because you're not taking into account the cost of other expenses such as groceries, housing, and utilities. all of which have gone up by a factor of four.

if you manage your money and make 100K+ you shouldn't have any problems.
as i have said before......
maybe if those rich people didn't spread themselves thin, and buy the 750K house, but went with the 300K house instead. then they wouldn't be complaining so much about cash.

You believe everything the media tells you?

where in they world did you get that idea from???
this whole thread goes AGAINST what the media is saying??? the media are the ones acting like the gas prices/economy is the end of the world.
i'm saying "whats all the fuss?"
you are very backwards sir.

[Dorktron2000]

anyone uper middle class or higher should have a GOOD heath insurance plan.
if they don't, thats thier fault.

Lots of people think they have good insurance until the HMO doesn't cover one the drugs their doctor recommends, or cover fully a costly procedure. I'm not saying it happens in every situation, but the battles between doctor recommendations and company profits are more common than is comfortable.

Also from what you said earlier, you and your fiance will be close to that $100k you so covet, and you also said it would be difficult to have kids because you can't afford them.

From my personal experience, I grew up in an environment where I've seen my parents going from earning $30k to $200k, but there are still a lot of unexpected things that can become unforeseen financial burdens.

[anime____4ever]

Lots of people think they have good insurance until the HMO doesn't cover one the drugs their doctor recommends, or cover fully a costly procedure. I'm not saying it happens in every situation, but the battles between doctor recommendations and company profits are more common than is comfortable.

yes i do know this, some people will always get shafted from time to time.
i do have sympathy for those people.

Also from what you said earlier, you and your fiance will be close to that $100k you so covet, and you also said it would be difficult to have kids because you can't afford them.

well, i would still say that combined we are around 75K, AND i also said that i'm managing to save about 15-20k a year my fiance probably saves about 5K a year (you know women and there spending :P)
so we are saving about 20-25K per year. so out of that 75k, we are actually only spending like 45-50k.
when i think about it, we could PROBABLY afford kids right now, we just want to play it safe and be smart with our money.

[DavenIII]

Filler, that's right Daven, I stole your style!

It works well makes it easy to understand right :)

[DavenIII]

Also just to let you know anime_____4ever wealth is completely realitive to where you are, it was said before but I'll mention my situation.

My Father makes more then 200K a year and my mother is around 80k we are LOWER middle class, my parents had trouble putting my sister through school and they simply could not pay for me or my brother.

you might think "OMG you guys must waste money" but that simply is not the case infact we sacrifice most times on food (buying all non-brand items and buying in bulk and sometimes simply eating less then most would 2 meals a day instead of three etc etc) you may think thats crazy but you have to understand NY is Freaking expensive... like nothing you could probably understand.... do you realize it can cost as much as 16 dollars in TOLLS to "Get to work" lets not even think about Gas which is way over the 4$ mark around here.... houses sell for... well.. like you said I should buy a 300k house right? well that doesn't EXIST the cheapest houses you can find within like a 50-100 mile radius of my work cost 750k+ ...thats just how it is.

[Dorktron2000]

well, i would still say that combined we are around 75K, AND i also said that i'm managing to save about 15-20k a year my fiance probably saves about 5K a year (you know women and there spending :P)
so we are saving about 20-25K per year. so out of that 75k, we are actually only spending like 45-50k.
when i think about it, we could PROBABLY afford kids right now, we just want to play it safe and be smart with our money.

So after taxes you are earning 75k? Otherwise your numbers don't add up.

Saying a couple earns 100k before taxes, after taxes they have around 65k-70k. If your living as two are spending 50k a year it's not unimaginable to spend and additional 10k more for a child on a variety of accounts and expenses. That leaves very little for personal savings, retirement, etc.

Rising gas, which has led to inflation higher than most banks regular savings rates, makes everything tighter, even on this 100k you say is so much, which is enough to live comfortably though not extravagantly.

[DavenIII]

Rising gas, which has led to inflation higher than most banks regular savings rates, makes everything tighter, even on this 100k you say is so much, which is enough to live comfortably though not extravagantly.

And its not JUST Gas anymore its starting to affect food and everything else because of transportation cost increases.

Oh by the way, anyone who likes Corn... man o man your gonna be in for some trouble soon.... not only will it be more expensive because of Gas prices but the flooding out there is apparently the worst on record for some farmers.

[Dorktron2000]

Oh by the way, anyone who likes Corn... man o man your gonna be in for some trouble soon.... not only will it be more expensive because of Gas prices but the flooding out there is apparently the worst on record for some farmers.

Don't think just of corn as an object of itself, think of the myriad of things that are made from corn: corn starch, corn syrup, most alcohols, and a lot of livestock feed (increasing the cost of meat).

It's the same with oil. The increase in gasoline price, while high, hasn't been as bad as the short term increase in diesel, which impacts the price of every good that has to be transported by truck. In the short term, the increase in gas is bad because it's compounding with the unusual situations in the world's food supplies. In the long term its ugly since there is no real long term solution to the problem and our current system of American living isn't really conducive to an easy solution.

[CrossboneGundam]

i understand that gas prices are high, but i'm soooooooo tired of all the gas drama. people are acting as if gas is at like $8-10 a gallon.

it only costs me about $10 more to fill up my tank now than it did year ago.
also, the average person only fills up thier tank 2-4 times a month. thats only about $20-40 more per month (on average) you are paying in gas, big deal.

30 bucks a month shouldn't make or brake you, and if it does, then you need to think about getting another or different job.

i can uderstand how the state of the economy is effecting the poor or lower-middle class, but i don't see how the gas and the minor increase in prices of other products are effecting anyone else.
for example, just the other day......
i was at the gas pump, and this guy driving a Mercedes clk 06-08 on another pump says to me
"man can you belive these gas prices, they're gonna put me in the poor house"
i was like wtf are you talking about???

i would say i'm middle class and the economy isn't bothering me much at all, so whats rich guy clk complaining about???

Translation: "IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME SO IT'S NOT A PROBLEM YOU WHINERS"

[Rain]

if you manage your money and make 100K+ you shouldn't have any problems.
as i have said before......
maybe if those rich people didn't spread themselves thin, and buy the 750K house, but went with the 300K house instead. then they wouldn't be complaining so much about cash.

Wow, you have no idea what you're talking about.

My combined family income is way over $200k/year and I still don't consider my family that affluent - maybe middle/upper class. Everything adds up, and saving a ''meager'' $100 to $200 a week goes a long way. It costs my mother about $80 to fill up the tank for her van, and it costs my brother $50. I don't even drive, because I want to save money and the environment (:lol:), so I take public transit everywhere.

In addition, it's not just gas prices that are on the rise, food prices, etc. are on the rise, too. It also seems like even middle class families have trouble paying the bills these days.

[DavenIII]

I just think its absolutely hilarious that he thinks 100k = good life.

100k = near poverty

in some places... seriously.

[Rain]

I just think its absolutely hilarious that he thinks 100k = good life.

100k = near poverty

in some places... seriously.

I know, right. $100k/year is nothing here. The average one bedroom condominium or apartment here is at least $500k.

[DavenIII]

I know, right. $100k/year is nothing here. The average one bedroom condominium or apartment here is at least $500k.

Same, I added another 25 miles onto my commute when I moved out of my parents place to find a one bedroom for under 250k (and its worth 275k now) had I bought something near where I did live there simply wasn't anything less then 500k either....and its not as if that neighborhood was the richest I've ever seen.... now Saddle River NJ lol thats some crazy prices its 15 min away from where I live and the normal house over there literally sells for 1.8 million dollars (from estimates in the year 2000) I had some friends living over there always had good parties.

[Holy Knight]

100k$ is hardly luxury. As has been said, it entirely depends on where you live. Case in point, if you live in Quebec, expect a tax rate of 50%.

Factor in unexpected costs like having to repair the roof, needing a new car/repairing the car you have, or repairing that basement flood, etc. quickly adds up. Even if you have a good year, gas prices, utilities, insurance, mortgage, etc., etc. makes 100k$ look measly by comparison. Besides, houses currently cost 500k$+ depending on where you live. That means 100k$ yearly might be enough to let you attain the mortgage on said house in three or so years of work.

Yes, it's a lot more than 20k$, but my point is that it's just more breathing room. Upper middle class is more like 200k$ - 500k$ and rich is 600k$+.

[Nathan-the-Axe]

Are you guys high? 100K isn't that much? Well, news to me. I would be happy making 100K a year. Both my parents make over well over 200K a year though.

If you had over a million dollars in stock would you be considered rich?

[Holy Knight]

Are you guys high? 100K isn't that much? Well, news to me. I would be happy making 100K a year. Both my parents make over well over 200K a year though.

If you had over a million dollars in stock would you be considered rich?

Wait 'till you have to pay rent and the government starts demanding those taxes. :P

Yeah, a million is a lot, so long as it lasts. You could live on it for maybe 5 to 15 years depending on where you live and how you spend it, but if you don't have any steady income or you don't invest that million to make it grow, it's going to disappear eventually.

[Nathan-the-Axe]

Wait 'till you have to pay rent and the government starts demanding those taxes. :P

Yeah, a million is a lot, so long as it lasts. You could live on it for maybe 5 to 15 years depending on where you live and how you spend it, but if you don't have any steady income or you don't invest that million to make it grow, it's going to disappear eventually.

Well, if you are one person making just 100K a year, lets find out your 'average' expenses..

House/Apartment: (Nice) 2500k/mo 30K yr
Utitlites: 250/mo 3Kyr
Taxes: 25% = 25K/yr
Food: 250/mo 3k yr
Gas: 200/mo = 2.4K yr
Other: 1K/mo = 12K yr

So, that would leave you with about 35K free spending money every year, thats not bad. This is, if you live alone though, and I overtaxed and overestimated the cost of things on purpose.

[DavenIII]

Car Insurance = 200 dollars a month
Cable/Internet/Phone another 130+ a month.
Cell Phone = 30 a month.
Car Payments or Lease 300-400 a month.
Common Charges if you live in a Condo = 300 a month

etc
etc
etc


you leaving a lot out and your forgeting about the occasional emergancy... flat tire... your Belts go, Oil Change, Termites in your house etc etc etc

Not to mention KIDS which costs like as much as all that other stuff besides the mortgage combined :P


(PS Btw my Condo costs 2100 a month in Mortgage payments and another 300 in common charges and thats just for a one bedroom)

[CrossboneGundam]

I just think its absolutely hilarious that he thinks 100k = good life.

100k = near poverty

in some places... seriously.

What kind of lunatic country do you live in?

Poverty in AMERICA is officially less than $30k a year. Most people make less than $50k a year.

[DavenIII]

What kind of lunatic country do you live in?

NY close to the city.... you simply can NOT live making less then 100k in this area... I'm not even remotely joking.

[Bradster]

As mentioned in another thread, corporations do their best to have consumers soak up any potential loss in profits so as gas prices go up, shipping prices go up, as do the cost of the shipped items.

I do a good percentage of the purchasing of bulk chemicals for my workplace, and have seen the S&H charges of heavier items (like 20 liter cans and cases of halogenated solvents) jump considerably.

[Nathan-the-Axe]

Car Insurance = 200 dollars a month
Cable/Internet/Phone another 130+ a month.
Cell Phone = 30 a month.
Car Payments or Lease 300-400 a month.
Common Charges if you live in a Condo = 300 a month

etc
etc
etc


you leaving a lot out and your forgeting about the occasional emergancy... flat tire... your Belts go, Oil Change, Termites in your house etc etc etc

Not to mention KIDS which costs like as much as all that other stuff besides the mortgage combined :P


(PS Btw my Condo costs 2100 a month in Mortgage payments and another 300 in common charges and thats just for a one bedroom)

Thats what the other was for. Stuff I couldn't remember.

[CrossboneGundam]

NY close to the city.... you simply can NOT live making less then 100k in this area... I'm not even remotely joking.

I have two cousins who live in in Manhattan, neither makes anywhere near 100k a year.

[Holy Knight]

Well, if you are one person making just 100K a year, lets find out your 'average' expenses..

House/Apartment: (Nice) 2500k/mo 30K yr
Utitlites: 250/mo 3Kyr
Taxes: 25% = 25K/yr
Food: 250/mo 3k yr
Gas: 200/mo = 2.4K yr
Other: 1K/mo = 12K yr

So, that would leave you with about 35K free spending money every year, thats not bad. This is, if you live alone though, and I overtaxed and overestimated the cost of things on purpose.

If you live in Quebec, it's likely to go like this (monthly) :

Mortgage (house) : 800$ (supposing a period of 25 years and a good price on the house.)
Mortgage (car) : 400$
Utilities (heating, electricity, phone, internet, etc.) : 1000$
Food (supposing a family of 4) : 400$
Gas : 400$
Other (emergencies, breakdowns, school fees for the kids) : 100$

Taxes (50%) : 50000$ /year

Total : 87200$ yearly.

Utilities are high because winters here make heating skyrocket. You only really start making money on a 100k$ salary once you've paid off the house and the car, but kids want soccer practice, their first car, etc. So yeah, it can be a lot or not. All depends on your situation and if you had a good or a bad year.

[goddessofanime]

(Filler...)


Pretty much everything Daven said.


If you can afford the gas, then you are rich. Most people can't. At least the people I know.

[Xhalen]

I mainly think the OP was trying to say that he has a hard time understanding why so many well-off people are complaining about gasoline, especially someone driving around in a high-end Mercedes.

It's not a big deal, granted I've been drinking for 8 hours now, but I don't think he's trying to say he's better than anyone else, just that he has little sympathy for wealthy people who complain.

SaMaster14, where are you?!?!? I'm sure you own a couple of oil wells along with a refinery or two...I kid, I kid.

[Tuna]

Here are some fun numbers: I live in a place where:

- You have to drive 20 miles a day to get to work in bumper-to-bumper traffic, burning up a lot of gas.
- Gas is $4.55/gallon, and rising about 5 cents a day on average.
- The houses here start at $750k for a tiny one bedroom.
- The long commute only takes you to a minimum-wage job (10-12k/year), with no insurance.
- Apartment rent starts at $1000/month, for a studio apartment in a no-so-favorable part of town.

Is $100k a lot of money here? To those who OWN the houses - NO...to those of us who actually work here - YES. It is not only location, but circumstance that defines what a "lot of money" is...

...and with those numbers, yes, rising gas prices are a real concern, since they trickle down to higher food prices, higher utility prices, and higher rent for those of us who are just squeaking by already. Those who would argue that one should take public transport need to be aware that it is not free - it is currently $4 one-way, per ride. That equals $8 per day, or one hours pay gone right off the bat - not to mention the long commute times, which eat into the time one could be working at a second job instead of waiting in line at an overcrowded bus stop.

So, yes, rising gas prices are a major concern for those of us without the luxury of any financial buffers...I think that is where the bulk of the "panic" is emanating from.
o.o

[anime____4ever]

You do understand that the cost of living is different in different places. I currently do pretty well at my current occupation easily living under my goal of 70% of my income. If I moved to another area I would definately not be able to maintain my current standard of living and would probably be skimping by. 100K in NYC or the Napa Valley is not the same as 100K in BFE Missisippi.

yes i DO understand this.

thats why i'm using terms like "middle class" and "upper-middle class" as well. 100K is just a number i threw out for where I live.

this also goes out to all of you debating what 100K is worth where you live.
if 100k isn't upper-middle class where you live, then insert whatever number would be upper-middle class where you live. then listen to what i'm saying.

@ CrossboneGundam

no, the translation is:
if someone middle class isn't having any problems with gas/economy, then why do people that make 10x more than him complain about gas prices and such.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

i understand that gas prices are high, but i'm soooooooo tired of all the gas drama. people are acting as if gas is at like $8-10 a gallon.

it only costs me about $10 more to fill up my tank now than it did year ago.
also, the average person only fills up thier tank 2-4 times a month. thats only about $20-40 more per month (on average) you are paying in gas, big deal.

30 bucks a month shouldn't make or brake you, and if it does, then you need to think about getting another or different job.

i can uderstand how the state of the economy is effecting the poor or lower-middle class, but i don't see how the gas and the minor increase in prices of other products are effecting anyone else.
for example, just the other day......
i was at the gas pump, and this guy driving a Mercedes clk 06-08 on another pump says to me
"man can you belive these gas prices, they're gonna put me in the poor house"
i was like wtf are you talking about???

i would say i'm middle class and the economy isn't bothering me much at all, so whats rich guy clk complaining about???

Are you an ******* or something? It costs 70 dollars to fill the tank here. Do you know how long a normal person has to work to get 70 dollars?!

[Caster13]

All I know is that I have GOT to learn how to drive stick, because practically ALL cars that are like 40 mpg are stick. Meanwhile the rest of the country is lazy and just wants to use automatic and not put in the effort to learn. Meanwhile automatics don't have NEARLY as good mileage. I've checked, super high mileage cars practically always have manual transmissions.

ex. 25 mpg city and 32 mpg highway with automatic vs. 39 mpg city and 46 mpg highway with manual (or more)......yea, I think I'll sacrifice a week or two of my free time learning how to use stick. I'm not stupid.

[anime____4ever]

Are you an ******* or something? It costs 70 dollars to fill the tank here. Do you know how long a normal person has to work to get 70 dollars?!

the point i'm trying to make is.....
what did it cost you to fill up the tank a year ago?? back when nobody was whining about it?? maybe like $55-60?? thats not toooooo drastic of a price change.

i'm saying that people are reacting toooooo crazy to the gas prices.
with the way people are acting around my area, you would think gas is at like $10 a gallon right now.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I have two cousins who live in in Manhattan, neither makes anywhere near 100k a year.

So they are living in a 500 square foot apaprtment with 6 other people or they are receiving some other sort of aid.

yes i DO understand this.



No you don't, you seem to have trouble with the concept.

[Caster13]

Can we please stop the flamming and have a civilized and intelligent discussion?

[Daishikaze]

Most people complain about the prices because it is having an adverse impact on their financial situation. I think thats enough of a reason

[The Million Dollar Prons]

the point i'm trying to make is.....
what did it cost you to fill up the tank a year ago?? back when nobody was whining about it?? maybe like $55-60?? thats not toooooo drastic of a price change.

i'm saying that people are reacting toooooo crazy to the gas prices.
with the way people are acting around my area, you would think gas is at like $10 a gallon right now.


Everyone was complaining about it last year, where were you?

[Caster13]

Well maybe most of the people in American should live within their means in the first place.

[Leader Desslock]

...i'm soooooooo tired of all the gas drama.

...it only costs me about $10 more to fill up my tank now than it did year ago... thats only about $20-40 more per month (on average) you are paying in gas, big deal...

... i don't see how the gas and the minor increase in prices of other products are effecting anyone else.

...the economy isn't bothering me much at all...
Then I'd say you're fortunate, and you should be thankful for your fortune, rather than look down upon those who're less fortunate.

How about you take a look at the actual cost of gas, for the average person, rather than the the very narrow view of what you're personally paying at the pump?

Imagine that you're a waiter/waitress at a local restaurant. You make below minimum wage (which is common) and rely on tip money for your income. What do you notice? You'd notice that fewer people are eating out. Why? Because it costs more to drive to your restaurant, and because your restaurant's prices have gone up to cover the additional costs of getting the foood delivered that you serve. So you have fewer customers, and the ones you have are tipping less. Of course, since you have fewer customers, your manager has cut back your hours, since fewer wait staff are needed. So you're making much less, while all your personal expenses (food, gas, utilities) have gone up.

Paying more at the pump + working less + making less when you do work + increased expenses. That's the actual price of gas you're feeling.

Imagine you're a local building contractor. Times are pretty bad now, with the whole housing collapse, but you were still scraping by. But now... well, the Diesel gas you need to put in your truck to get your tools and equipment around has gone up by over a dollar a gallon. Driving a hybrid just isn't an option for you, because you really do need the big gas-guzzling truck to get your tools around in order to work at the various jobs you're able to find. Of course, since such jobs are increasingly scarce, you're having to drive even farther to get to them, which costs even more. So what do you do? Do you pass your expenses on to your customer? If so, that raises your prices. Your bids come in higher, you lose jobs.

That's the real cost.


Sounds to me like you're just a fortunate person who hasn't felt the real cost. Good for you. Be grateful.

[anime____4ever]

No you don't, you seem to have trouble with the concept.

why would you say that, did you read my explaination???

@ Prons

yes some people did have some complaints from time to time last year.
however, now they are acting like it's the end of the world.

@ dess

i'm glad i'm doing ok, sure.
it just annoys me when people that live in my area that make 10x more money than i do complain about gas prices.

basicaly, in a nutshell.....
i'm just tierd of the media acting like its the end of the world, and people acting like everything bad in the word today is because of high gas prices

[Caster13]

Speaking of big trucks, I have four days in a moving truck going across the country comming up. I know my dad is gonna be paying for it, but the gas for the truck and my sister's car for the whole trip + hotel rooms is gonna cost like 2 grand. I have no ****ing clue how this is gonna happen.

I might have to chip in a couple hundred by using some of my bank account. There's no way that gas is REALLY this expensive. Biggest. price. fixing. EVER!

[Bernard_Monsha]

why would you say that, did you read my explaination???


yes it was just as incoherent, uninformed, and rambling as every other post you made in this thread
i'm just tierd of the media acting like its the end of the world, and people acting like everything bad in the word today is because of high gas prices

Hey, 4-11 Snow White: The world does not revolve around you!

[Dorktron2000]

i'm just tierd of the media acting like its the end of the world, and people acting like everything bad in the word today is because of high gas prices

How can you not understand media pundents (ie economists) complaining about high gas prices? Higher gas prices are drastically affecting inflation which, in turn, can have drastic changes on the actions and opinions of America's financial institutions. When Bernanke says something about the strength of the dollar and basis points the stock market can swing 400 points in either direction.

To make this simple:

Gas-> Dollar -> Financial Markets

If I was earning 100k a year and trying to save using an IRA or investing in stock, I would be complaining about the price of gasoline since it would impact everything in my portfolio. With my limited investments in a few CD's, the rise in gas has affected inflation enough to make my rate look like crap.

[Kagura]

Well, I gotta agree. The whining over high gas price is ridiculous. Yes, I can see the reason for it, but whining won't do any good. Most of us need gas for our vehicles to get around, so we might as well bite the bullet and pay for it. Its all we can do. Money makes the world go round and everyone needs money. I do sympathize how some people have a distance to travel to work and by the time he or she pays for the gas, their paycheck ends up from some bucks left, to a few pennies left. With the way everything is going now, its getting expensive for everyone to live, even non-drivers. :( Also, realize why so many complain. The rise in gas prices, is going to affect (unless it is already) the cost of food!

[emotoaster]

Then I'd say you're fortunate, and you should be thankful for your fortune, rather than look down upon those who're less fortunate.

How about you take a look at the actual cost of gas, for the average person, rather than the the very narrow view of what you're personally paying at the pump?

Imagine that you're a waiter/waitress at a local restaurant. You make below minimum wage (which is common) and rely on tip money for your income. What do you notice? You'd notice that fewer people are eating out. Why? Because it costs more to drive to your restaurant, and because your restaurant's prices have gone up to cover the additional costs of getting the foood delivered that you serve. So you have fewer customers, and the ones you have are tipping less. Of course, since you have fewer customers, your manager has cut back your hours, since fewer wait staff are needed. So you're making much less, while all your personal expenses (food, gas, utilities) have gone up.

Paying more at the pump + working less + making less when you do work + increased expenses. That's the actual price of gas you're feeling.


What LD says here is 100% true. My father owns a restaurant and we are hurting pretty badly. The fact that we are not in "season" plus gas, and the ****** economy is not making this easy. Luckily we have a lot of regulars and retirees come in.

Gas is killing me and I really want to go out and about this summer but I'm staying home because of this ridiculous pricing we are getting. It went up 9 cents, in one day. Oh SIDE NOTE: This is all compounded by the fact that I also deliver pizza on the side. Which is directly effected by gas. When people give one to two dollars tip wise it really REALLY sucks.

[Kagura]

This is more or less what I was saying as an example. People's jobs sometimes, if not most of the time to drive4 and so, they got to purchase gasoline. The high gas prices are making the economy sh*tty for everyone. Like I stated, I can see people whining about high gas prices, but it won't do any good. The government doesn't seem to give a crap. Get used to hearing the whining though, as with the rising gas prices, soon all of us will hear complaints on food costs, as well as just the basic necessities costs climbing. Its just a shame that we got to face these sort of times. The only thing I see happening is the poor is going to get even more poor, the middle class is going to become poor, and the rich will finally see what its like to be either middle class or poor themselves. I gotta wonder if the high society government's scientists and businessmen and whomever might pertain to this, if they had predicted this situation happening in the future, and if they just sat on their butts and did nothing to stop it?!

[anime____4ever]

yes it was just as incoherent, uninformed, and rambling as every other post you made in this thread

if you think my explaination was incoherent, then you must need glasses.

Hey, 4-11 Snow White: The world does not revolve around you!

what? are you saying i'm not allowed to complain about an issue that bothers me, and if i DO complain, that means i think the world revolves around me??
what a load of crap.

[shinri]

The commercial airline industry is going to take a HUGE hit if prices continue on their current path. They're already adding things like increased fuel surcharges, and even more fees for the second piece of checked luggage. For me, it means that although I may have enough seniority to guarantee job security against the coming waves of layoffs, my income will continue to stagnate, or be cut even further. Couple that with the rising costs of living, and basically, the party is over!

PS - I don't even drive, let alone own any kind of car. But the basic costs of food, public transit, heating/hydro, housing, everything is going to increase by multiples if this continues. Time to tighten my budget even further, and start cutting back not only on luxuries, but everyday necessities.

[Caster13]

People wouldn't have to travel as far to work if some companies decided to build offices more in the suburbs, instead of some people having to travel over an hour to work. And when the suburbs closer to the city become bad areas because of crime branching out, people move further and further and further away. And companies still keep their offices in the cities, and gas keeps getting higher, making it super expensive just to go to work and make a living in the first place.

I know there's no way in hell that big companies are going to build offices in other areas, because it would cost too much to build another office building further away from where all of the money is at. It's an idea though, however unrealistic.

[Suiko Eiji]

Here's one of those facts of my youth: In the ten years I've been driving (read - paid for gas), I've seen the price quadruple.

I make decent money, but still well within the five figure range. A round trip commute to work for me is about 300 miles per week. I can squeeze a tank out of that, almost, every five days. And it's not like I have some gas-guzzler, either. I have a little 4-banger, 1.8L Nissan Sentra. I've decided to start driving because paying $30 every five days for the bus line is better than the $60 in the same time-span to drive it.

I'm going to complain about the price gas costs so long as it affects me the exact same way that I'm going to complain about a non-diverse energy policy: I'll ***** and scream about it but know that nothing's going to come of it.

[Bradster]

I gotta wonder if the high society government's scientists and businessmen and whomever might pertain to this, if they had predicted this situation happening in the future, and if they just sat on their butts and did nothing to stop it?!

We've known about this possibility for over 30 years now but not done anything about it. Big Auto does its best to resist calls for better gas mileage (and GM even killed their EV-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1) about 10 years ago), and consumers prefer to complain when times are bad instead of encouraging R&D when times are good. No ants, just grasshoppers.

Today, hybrid car plants are running at capacity and there are months-long waiting lists for the few available- while truck/SUV lines are being closed down.

[anime____4ever]

^^ speaking of hybrids. untill the price of them drop, i believe they are kinda pointless imo. unless you are just a very "enviornmental" person.

take a look at this for example:
a base line honda civic is priced at $14,810, and gets 26 mpg / 34 mpg
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/honda/civic/100933776/prices.html
now, a honad civic "hybrid" is priced at $22,600, and gets 40 mpg / 45 mpg
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/honda/civic/100943566/prices.html

granted you get about 12 more mpg, but you are paying $7,790 more for the car. basicaly your just paying for your gas up front. i would think the average person would have to drive that car for like 10 years just to break even on the price difference, and save like 8g in gas
unless you are a very heavy driver OR you are planning to keep your car for a looooooong time.

untill the price of hybrids drop, i don't think they are worth it as of now.
your best bet is to just buy somthing like a toyota yaris, or a honda fit. both of them are under 15g and get like 35mpg

[Rurouni Saiyan]

My thoughts:

1) If you're driving a gas guzzling SUV or truck of some sort, then you have no right to ***** about gas prices.

2) Gas shortage is a lie perpetuated by the oil companies to turn more profits. Remember the gas shortage of the 70s. Analysts said that the US will run out of gas in about 10 years. 30 years later....

3) There hasn't been an oil refinery built on American soil for years. That could help in gas costs.

4) The cheapest gas in the world can be found in Venezuela where it is about $0.12 a gallon. This is because the gas is handled by the government. This could raise some ideas...

[taily]

If you are driving a very expensive car, STOP *****ING.

[Bradster]

4) The cheapest gas in the world can be found in Venezuela where it is about $0.12 a gallon. This is because the gas is handled by the government. This could raise some ideas...

One major political party that will remain nameless dedicates themselves to privatizing everything. No doubt nationalizing something as major as this would have them purple with apoplexy. Though I suppose it might be effective in thinning their ranks due to millions of lethal strokes... :P

[Suiko Eiji]

4) The cheapest gas in the world can be found in Venezuela where it is about $0.12 a gallon. This is because the gas is handled by the government. This could raise some ideas...

As Bradster mention, round-about-ly, Venezuela has nationalized their oil and gas companies. Nationalization may bring the price down temporarily but it could lead to stifled competition, lack of advancement, etc. etc.

Not to mention, that despite government ownership, Venezuela is also not afraid of drilling in their own soil and waters for those resources - and selling what they don't need. I will disagree that nationalization is the answer - but we should be making use of our own resources and pursuing alternate fuels, like MOAR nuclear. But, that type of thinking will win you more enemies than suggesting we should nationalize.

[J Dude]

I find it funny that this thread was made right after someone in another thread said something about increasing gas prices being a cause for people not buying anime as much. Someone is very predictable. As I said, I'm only working part time, still living with my parents, and having to pay half the costs for college classes and I really only have enough money to pay for the necessities and maybe only a little to spend on video games and anime every few months, but not nearly as much as before. Hell... I haven't bought any anime in probably half a year now because my expenses are low compared to what they were a year ago when I was working full time in some crappy stress-filled job and wasn't taking any classes at the time, thus not having to pay nearly half of a $1,000 for two art classes like I just had to recently, my parents paying the other half. That's a real hit on my money since I'm only making about $125-$130 a week working part time. That's all I want to work right now while I'm going to school, otherwise I can imagine my life getting really stressed out, and more money just isn't worth it to me right now if it means more stress, and working in a grocery store, especially when it's busy will get you stressed out easily most of the time.

Anyways... my point is that even though I've skimmed through the thread and don't feel like reading all the rambling about how it seems like someone needs to get off their high horse and understand that not everyone is living in a mansion or living the good life, that people are going to complain about increasing gas prices whether you like it or not, and they have every right to. So what.... I should just take this up my butt and just enjoy that prices in gas is going up? NO! :mad: I may have to just live with it and pay for gas if I want it, but that doesn't mean I don't have a right to complain about it. I drive a small pickup truck and I remember maybe 3-4 years ago when $30 would fill up my entire tank, now $30 only fills it up 1/3. That's just ridiculous. I'm so sorry that I'm not like the original poster and is being totally pampered and living in a mansion, which maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he just likes having something to complain about himself.

[Trefellin]

I think that everyone has a right to complain because the recent increases of gas prices have nothing to do with supply and demand. There is no way that demand or supply could be so radically changing to justify the massive daily increases in the price of gas. That means that some people are making flaming buttloads of cash off of consumers who cannot do without the product. Everyone is being ripped off. The poor will be hit the hardest and the middle class will be pulled out of their comfort zone.

Let's have a Molotov party.

[anime____4ever]

Anyways... my point is that even though I've skimmed through the thread and don't feel like reading all the rambling about how it seems like someone needs to get off their high horse and understand that not everyone is living in a mansion or living the good life I'm so sorry that.
I'm not like the original poster and is being totally pampered and living in a mansion, which maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he just likes having something to complain about himself.

uhhhhhh........

maybe before you post crap, you should read the thread.
you are waaaaaay off. if you think in any way shape or form i'm living in a mansion. i have stated multiple times that i make less than 45K, you call that rich and pampered??

just about every post i made (and the OP) is about how I get mad at the rich and pampered for complaining about gas prices. where the heck are U?
jesus, your post is absurd.

I find it funny that this thread was made right after someone in another thread said something about increasing gas prices being a cause for people not buying anime as much. Someone is very predictable

what's getting funny and predictable is that you always want to attemp to slam me in your posts, no-matter-what. even if what you say makes no sense at all, and you didn't even bother to read the thread.
it's like..... you don't even care what you say anymore, just as long as SOMTHING in your post is negative towards me :lol:

[mdauben]

70miles a day is reeeeeeealy high.
Maybe for you. Not too long ago I was driving 100+ miles per day just to go back and forth to work. In part because of the gas prices (and this was a few years back when it first topped $3US per gallon) I ended up moving cross countryt to take a new job that only requires about 10 miles per day. :naughty:

I think there are two aspects to the gas price thing. First, its easy to point at gas prices and people can see just how much, and how fast, they are increasing. Its easily quantifiable and recognizable. Second, gas prices effect almost everything we buy. Food, appliances, furniture, anything that has to be transported. So, its not just gasoline prices that are rising, lots of things are at the same time and it all adds up.

I don't drive that much and I have a well paying job so the price increase does not hit me all that hard. For someone making less money, and with more expenses (family, etc.) the extra cost of gas can make a bigger difference.

[Leader Desslock]

I have stated multiple times that i make less than 45K, you call that rich and pampered??
Here's a news flash: yes.

Predicted response: "What?! I don't feel rich and pampered! Where is the bevy of nubile young slavegirls I was promised? They were supposed to wear very little clothing... drop bit of ripened, peeled fruit in my open mouth... fan me with palm fronds... I've seen it in all the pictures. That's what it means to be rich, right?"

Wrong.

When a man says "I make less than 45K", he usually doesn't mean "I make $15k/year". He usually means "I make just a little less than 45k". So... okay, let's downgrade a healthy margin and say that you make 40k/year.

Wonderful. Now take a tiny moment out of your busy day and compare that to national census figures for personal income in the US.

Notice that enourmous chunk of the population that makes less than 40k/year? Notice how it's more than half of the population? Yeah. Guess what that makes you. Come on, you can say it....

"Advantaged".

All this complaining that you keep hearing about gas prices? Yeah - take a look at individual income distribution in the US. Take a look at the percentage of Americans making less than 20k. That's a right big chunk, innit? More than a third? Yeah, I thought so.

As I said, you're "advantaged", and as I said a while back, you're also "fortunate". You give lip service to being "grateful", but I just don't hear that part of your message coming through so clearly. So I'm going to introduce you to another term:

"Virtuous".

Having the grace to quietly persevere while other people are clearly having it worse than you do - I'd call that a virtue. You might just consider it, sometime, until you finally get the hang of "grateful".

Just a thought. Please, don't let me stifle your creativity or expression, however. I'd just like to point out one thing:

You know that feeling you get when you heard a guy with a big SUV or Mercedes complain about gas prices? You know how he's "advantaged", he's got it better than you, and hearing him complain makes you think "Geez, what is this guy complaining about, anyway! He's got it good!"

Take a look at those income percentages again, and reflect upon the percentage of the population that has it worse than you. Now think about how it makes them feel when you trivialize the gas pinch they're feeling right now. You say you're sick of hearing it in the media, and the media's making it out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, right?

That rather sizeable percentage of the population hears you saying that you're sick of hearing about their problem in the media, and their problem is being made out to be a bigger deal than it actually is.

You think they really enjoy hearing that? Or do you think it'd be best if you tried that whole "virtuous" thing?

[CrossboneGundam]

what? are you saying i'm not allowed to complain about an issue that bothers me, and if i DO complain, that means i think the world revolves around me??
what a load of crap.

Your "issue" is petty and selfish and would be solved by turning off the TV instead of getting on the internet to whine about bad news that has nothing to do with you and therefore must not be significant to anyone.

[anime____4ever]

Your "issue" is petty and selfish and would be solved by turning off the TV instead of getting on the internet to whine about bad news that has nothing to do with you and therefore must not be significant to anyone.

and your issue with me can be solved by either not reading what i post, turning off your comp, or not posting on this thread.
your complaining about my posts is even more petty than what i'm comlaining about.

yes i admit it, its petty......i still have a right to have an opinion though. if you don't like it, take your own advice and look the other way.

@ dess

although i think you misunderstood albit what i was saying in this thread, and i don't agree with some points you made, you did point out one thing to me.

"Take a look at those income percentages again, and reflect upon the percentage of the population that has it worse than you. Now think about how it makes them feel when you trivialize the gas pinch they're feeling right now. You say you're sick of hearing it in the media, and the media's making it out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, right?"

i didn't realize that i was trivializing the gas prices to people that have it worse than i do, because i did say that i believe that the poor and lower-middle DO have a right to complain.
i was aiming more at the upper-middle class and up. those people complaing are the thing that bothers me.

however, if what i'm saying is inadvertently making others that are worse than me feel like i did when that guy in the clk talked to me....then i'll shut up about gas prices.

[CrossboneGundam]

and your issue with me can be solved by either not reading what i post, turning off your comp, or not posting on this thread.
your complaining about my posts is even more petty than what i'm comlaining about.

yes i admit it, its petty......i still have a right to have an opinion though. if you don't like it, take your own advice and look the other way.

Why would I turn a blind eye to such laughable ignorance? And you're the one who thought your opinion on this matter was too important not to voice, you should know by now that posting it on an internet forum isn't the way to go if you want to make others listen to your views without being able to talk back.

[Caster13]

My thoughts:

1) If you're driving a gas guzzling SUV or truck of some sort, then you have no right to ***** about gas prices.

2) Gas shortage is a lie perpetuated by the oil companies to turn more profits. Remember the gas shortage of the 70s. Analysts said that the US will run out of gas in about 10 years. 30 years later....

3) There hasn't been an oil refinery built on American soil for years. That could help in gas costs.

4) The cheapest gas in the world can be found in Venezuela where it is about $0.12 a gallon. This is because the gas is handled by the government. This could raise some ideas...

You hit the nail right on the absolute center of the head.:thumbsup:

[Dorktron2000]

4) The cheapest gas in the world can be found in Venezuela where it is about $0.12 a gallon. This is because the gas is handled by the government. This could raise some ideas...

It's subsidized at a huge cost to the government, preventing them from spending on things such as health care, education, and infrastructure. Oil subsidies are a huge problem for every country that has them, such as India and Indonesia, and they are often used as political tools.

Bad idea.

[shinri]

Just heard today that Saudi Arabia is planning to boost oil production by 200 000 barrels a day starting next month according to its oil minister.

"Saudi Arabia is concerned that sustained high oil prices will eventually slacken the world's appetite for oil, affecting the kingdom in the long run."

The full article can be found here:

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/443823

Discuss.

[DavenIII]

what? are you saying i'm not allowed to complain about an issue that bothers me, and if i DO complain, that means i think the world revolves around me??
what a load of crap.

the problem isn't WHAT you are complaining about but how you are complaining about it.

All of your arguments against the complaints on Gas revolve around YOUR PERSONAL USAGE of gas, and you are completely ignoring the fact that jobs like Truck Drivers exist which rely HEAVILY on Gas prices and even minor changes can change their income greatly.

(not to mention your also ignoring all the other things gas prices effect the price of)

[Nathan-the-Axe]

Anime4ever, you are lucky to make what you make with how stupid you are sounding right now. If I didn't know better, I would assume you had the IQ of a rock.

[Leader Desslock]

"Saudi Arabia is concerned that sustained high oil prices will eventually slacken the world's appetite for oil, affecting the kingdom in the long run."

...

Discuss.
The Saudis have evidently figured out what every street dealer knows: If you price your junk high enough so that people have to beg, borrow or steal to get it, they will. But if you price it so high that they go into rehab, you just priced yourself out of business.

Why is regular gasoline around $4/gallon right now in the US? Because we won't pay $20/gallon. If we would, then that's what the price would be. But long before gas hit $20/gallon, you'd see this country fundamentally change its infrastructure and individual lifestyles to say "**** oil!" and embrace alternative energy sources.

For now, the Saudis don't want us to hit that point. They don't care if we gripe and grumble about $4/gallon, so long as that griping doesn't actually motivate us to, you know, do something about it. As long as we keep our heavily oil-dependent lifestyles, they're more than willing to let us catch our collective breath after this latest oil/gas spike.

And then, once we have, the price of oil and gas can start going up again.

[Solid_Snake]

So you recomend we be happy about having to pay more for gasoline?

Seriously. Get some more responsibility than buying cartoon DVDs.

Maybe move out of your parents house, or get married. 40 extra bucks a month may not seem much to you, but when you have to support a family it is bull crap.

[Raziel_MGS]

maybe if them democrats let us even think of drilling oil here, we got more in the rockies than all of Saudi Arabia's entire supply

[Rurouni Saiyan]

What a lot of people fail to realize that drilling here in the States isn't a silver bullet solution. The United States oil consumption would deplete our home resources of oil within a matter of months.

[Holy Knight]

Beyond the current crisis of oil depletion, am I the only one wondering what's happening under the earth's crust where the drilling happens? We're literally taking out millions of tons of oil from under the ground, doesn't that weaken the seabed and the land over which the oil resides?

Food for thought, I guess.

[Tidusauron12]

Beyond the current crisis of oil depletion, am I the only one wondering what's happening under the earth's crust where the drilling happens? We're literally taking out millions of tons of oil from under the ground, doesn't that weaken the seabed and the land over which the oil resides?

Food for thought, I guess.

You people watch. This WILL come up again.

[DavenIII]

The United States oil consumption would deplete our home resources of oil within a matter of months.

Or 70+ years in what we call the real world were scientists actually have estimated as such. (50 years is the lowest estimate I've seen)

[Rurouni Saiyan]

Yeah...it has been said repeatedly that there isn't enough oil resources in the US to sustain energy consumption for an extended period of time. Also, don't think that the oil companies are going to have free reign to drill where they please.

Alaskan Wildlife Refuge is a big target for oil and that hasn't been touched, nor probably ever be touched.

[Maxximo]

Beyond the current crisis of oil depletion, am I the only one wondering what's happening under the earth's crust where the drilling happens? We're literally taking out millions of tons of oil from under the ground, doesn't that weaken the seabed and the land over which the oil resides?

Food for thought, I guess.

I'm sure I heard they pump seawater to replace and max. production. The oil industry know this for years that without replacing the oil you pump out of the ground. The ground will just sink under them so much that their can't pump oil..

[Black Cat]

personally i don't complain. theres nothing i can do about it. however people DO have a right to complain

[shinri]

It's official now. Yesterday they announced 2000 layoffs @ my company, 500 of them in my department alone. I honestly feel really bad for those kids who were hired in the past 1.5yrs, and who really wanted to go places/experience new things/cultures who now have to look in another field for employment so long as fuel prices continue to cripple the industry the way it has. :(

[DavenIII]

It's official now. Yesterday they announced 2000 layoffs @ my company, 500 of them in my department alone. I honestly feel really bad for those kids who were hired in the past 1.5yrs, and who really wanted to go places/experience new things/cultures who now have to look in another field for employment so long as fuel prices continue to cripple the industry the way it has. :(

That sucks, Unemployment always sucks for a varity of reasons...I mean I wouldn't really know how it "Feels" because I've had a job since I was 14 but I know Unemployment is bad for the economy as a whole (I tend not to think of the people)

The lesson here is that in order to stop increasing gas prices which cause a host of problems including unemployment we need to start drilling more a greater supply must always lead to lower prices its how the market works, but the LAST thing we should do is "Tax" the Oil Companies because all that does is increase the cost of gas for the consumer and therefore create more unemployment among other things.

[Leader Desslock]

The lesson here is that in order to stop increasing gas prices which cause a host of problems including unemployment we need to start drilling more a greater supply must always lead to lower prices its how the market works...
In which case you're ignoring the other option, which is to Use Less To Lower Demand.

[DavenIII]

In which case you're ignoring the other option, which is to Use Less To Lower Demand.

Well I suppose that is an option for some people, but for others its not an option. (at least not with current technology or the "Price" of the other technologies)

Regardless the oil is there and its not hurting anyone to go get it...infact it has the side effect of creating more jobs.

[shinri]

That sucks, Unemployment always sucks for a varity of reasons...I mean I wouldn't really know how it "Feels" because I've had a job since I was 14 but I know Unemployment is bad for the economy as a whole (I tend not to think of the people)

The lesson here is that in order to stop increasing gas prices which cause a host of problems including unemployment we need to start drilling more a greater supply must always lead to lower prices its how the market works, but the LAST thing we should do is "Tax" the Oil Companies because all that does is increase the cost of gas for the consumer and therefore create more unemployment among other things.

I've worked since I was 15 myself, but it breaks my heart to see how eager and gung-ho these kids are about their jobs since they haven't been jaded yet (unlike a lot of bitter seniors I know who seriously need to get out of the industry, but that's another can of worms!), only to see their hopes broken. I can only hope that either the industry picks up again, or that they're young and resilient enough to pick themselves up and find another decent line of employment soon enough.

I don't know if more fossil fuels is the ultimate answer in the long-term. So long as we continue to rely on a single major source of fuel, I feel we're continuing to put ourselves in danger of serious market disruptions and the resulting chaos that's probably unavoidable as a result...

[DavenIII]

I don't know if more fossil fuels is the ultimate answer in the long-term. So long as we continue to rely on a single major source of fuel, I feel we're continuing to put ourselves in danger of serious market disruptions and the resulting chaos that's probably unavoidable as a result...

Long term? most definitely not, but we aren't able to make a whole sale switch yet, so while we are still researching new energy sources and perfecting them and lowering the production cost associated with them etc etc while we are doing all that we ALSO need to Increase our supply of oil for right now while we wait.

we have at least another 50 years worth of oil by scientific estimates that could be drilled for by us right now and that doesn't even include Oil Shale which could also be a tremendous help.

You've got the wrong Idea if you think I'm of the opinion that we should "Never" switch to the newer energies, I just think that we should perfect them a bit more before trying to wholesale switch over, and in the mean time we should drill a little extra to keep gas prices from jumping up to 5-6-7 dollars a gallon and really hurting our economy.

Another thing to think about is that a large amount of the advancements in alternate energy sources are funded and/or developed by Oil Companies themselves, Taxing them may slow down the process of switching to newer and friendlier sources of energy.

[Caster13]

Another thing to think about is that a large amount of the advancements in alternate energy sources are funded and/or developed by Oil Companies themselves, Taxing them may slow down the process of switching to newer and friendlier sources of energy.

And because of that we aren't gonna be seeing alternative energy sources come around ANYTIME soon.

[Siendra]

Here in Quebec, if you have to drive around a lot, it can cost you 500$ per month, easily. Prices are currently at 1.5$ per liter, so that's about 5.63$ per gallon. Just for my father's van, it costs 100$ to fill up one full tank. It's getting ridiculous.

It is getting ridiculous. Especially given the sheer amount of crude we produce ourselves. I live in Alberta. I've WORKED in the ****ing oil sands. There is NO reason we should be experiencing this massive price increase. But of course, Harper is a ****ing idiot and hasn't even tried putting forth a realistic solution.

[earsofdoom]

Whatever happened to electric cars anyways?

[HSaabedra]

Whatever happened to electric cars anyways?

The only company making a name for itself with them currently is Tesla and their Roadster electric sports car.

General Motors killed their infamous EV1 concept in the 90's after Big Oil felt threatened by the impact such a vehicle would have. GM is trying again with the Volt concept, but lithium based batteries are hitting a development barrier and more research is needed into better designs for batteries while keeping them enviromentally safe.

[shinri]

Long term? most definitely not, but we aren't able to make a whole sale switch yet, so while we are still researching new energy sources and perfecting them and lowering the production cost associated with them etc etc while we are doing all that we ALSO need to Increase our supply of oil for right now while we wait.

we have at least another 50 years worth of oil by scientific estimates that could be drilled for by us right now and that doesn't even include Oil Shale which could also be a tremendous help.

You've got the wrong Idea if you think I'm of the opinion that we should "Never" switch to the newer energies, I just think that we should perfect them a bit more before trying to wholesale switch over, and in the mean time we should drill a little extra to keep gas prices from jumping up to 5-6-7 dollars a gallon and really hurting our economy.

Another thing to think about is that a large amount of the advancements in alternate energy sources are funded and/or developed by Oil Companies themselves, Taxing them may slow down the process of switching to newer and friendlier sources of energy.

I wasn't implying that never switching to alternative sources of energy was a possibility. I'm fully aware that such things do take time, but I'm also skeptical of the oil companies' motives, since it's in their best interests to keep us hooked on fossil fuels for as long as they can...

[Meggles]

A lot of buses and trains in American cities have switched from gas to natural gas. Its still a fossil fuel but it burns cleaner and its cheaper. Also, ethanol has become increasingly popular except now the price of corn and products it goes into like soda, Meat(farmers feed their livestock with corn) and many other things.

[grgspunk]

As good as it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, I'd rather have the government put the gas companies on a much shorter leash in terms of how much they charge in relation to their profits. In other words, I'd say that the problem isn't a matter of a low supply coupled with higher demand, but rather a matter of the companies gouging the crap out of people and getting away with it.

From what I can tell, oil isn't neccessarily bound by the textbook laws of supply and demand. Even with measures to reduce consumers' spending of oil, like increasing fuel efficiency of cars, people seem to be buying more gas than ever. Can you imagine yourself buying a lot less gas because prices happened to increase by 30 cents per gallon? Of course not. Instead, you'd try to juggle your lifestyle around this price increase, such as spending less money on other things, so that you can pay for your gas. Even with this, your consumption of gas remains the same before the price went up. You can see this by looking at how well the oil companies have been doing: Every year we see reports of gas companies having record-high profits, without anything to indicate that they're having cutbacks on their budgets. This reflects an inelasticity of demand for gasolene, at least in terms of price increases. In other words, people aren't very willing to change how much gas they buy, regardless of how much its price goes up. Gas tends to be a bizarre case, because people will undoubtedly buy more gas if the price decreases, but they won't buy less gas if the price increases.

Considering this, if we were to decrease the price of oil per barrel by drilling more here (increasing supply) what guarantee will there be that the oil companies will also decrease the price at the pump? If prices of oil decreased from $140 to $60 per barrel this week, are the companies really going to say "Hey, the oil prices have gone down! Maybe we can decrease the prices at the pump?"

Hell no.

I'd say every gas company is going to say something like this: "Hey, the oil prices have gone down! But wait, our customers are still buying our gas at $4 per gallon. Maybe we can keep prices at the pump as it is right now and get a bigger profit margin?

[Leader Desslock]

Can you imagine yourself buying a lot less gas because prices happened to increase by 30 cents per gallon?
Of course I can. It happened in the 70's, and it's happening again right now.

From my personal perspective, I virtually stopped driving when gas hit $3/gallon the first time. I always said I would, and when it happened, I did. I turned a 30-mile (one way) daily commute to Denver into a bike / mass transit ride. I've since moved away from Denver and reduced my commute, sure. But I still put 10-20 miles on the bike a day (in 110F / 43C heat), and I've even sold my Jeep, since it was sitting idle.

I've seen an explosion of the number of those little 49CC scooters in town. High school kids who used to be all cool with their sports cars are now puttering around at 75 MPG on scooters, and there are a lot of adults joining them. I hear lots of stories about soccer moms telling their kids that they're not going to taxi their kids and their friends around town every time they need to go someplace; if it's out of the way of a scheduled trip, they can walk, and more folks are buying groceries as part of a big weekly trip than hopping over to the grocery store every time they need something. I see contractors leaving their big work trucks behind unless they absolutely need them to move equipment, instead favoring more fuel efficient "beaters" to get them to and from the jobsite with the smaller tools they can't secure onsite.

I don't have to imagine anything. I changed my own lifestyle and see others doing it everyday.

Of course not.
Just open your eyes. It's not as hard as you think to cut your gas usage, really. I'm one of those people who used to put 20,000+ miles a year on his cars, too. So I know firsthand what it takes.

[DavenIII]

As good as it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, I'd rather have the government put the gas companies on a much shorter leash in terms of how much they charge in relation to their profits. In other words, I'd say that the problem isn't a matter of a low supply coupled with higher demand, but rather a matter of the companies gouging the crap out of people and getting away with it.



I promise I'll read the rest when I get home (I need to head out) but this statement makes no sense, you want them to control the "Profits" Oil Companies are making?

You do realize that their Profit Margin is only 9-10% right? thats LOW, compare that to Microsoft and Google that are both over 20% and you'll realize that the Oil Companies are not Gouging anyone, the reason Gas is high is because our Government Taxes the heck out of it, the solution isn't MORE taxes its less taxes and a greater supply.

[Leader Desslock]

...the solution isn't MORE taxes its less taxes and a greater supply.
Or, as I keep pointing out, lower demand.

I'm not harping on you particularly, but I remember back in the 70's when we all said it was the end of the world and we were going to reduce our demand, blah blah....

Did we? No. Instead we drastically increased our supply. As a result, demand went up, and people started adopting lifestyles that made them even MORE dependent on gasoline. Urban sprawl, bedroom communities, less-fuel efficient SUVs, etc.

Now here we are in the same sinking boat we patched up 30 years ago, and folks are saying that the solution is to increase supply.

Since it didn't work the first time, I don't know why people think it's some kind of solution today. At the very best, it's a stopgap measure to get us through the transition to a less fuel-dependent society, but no more than that.

We (societally) need more talk about how that transition is going to happen, and less talk about where we're gonna get more oil until those transition plans are made.

Right now, it's like giving a junkie his fix BEFORE he agrees to talk about rehab. That ain't gonna work. He's just gonna get his fix and go on his merry way, not changing a damn thing. It's only whiole he's jonesing that he's gonna take the rehab idea seriously.

As far as I'm concerned, until we've changed the gas-dependent lifestyle we've adopted, I don't care HOW bad the gas crunch gets. Let's go back to rationing. Let's let it really hurt - and then, maybe out of that pain, we'll get the solutions we should've started developing the last time this happened.

[Woooh]

Or, as I keep pointing out, lower demand.

I'm not harping on you particularly, but I remember back in the 70's when we all said it was the end of the world and we were going to reduce our demand, blah blah....

Did we? No. Instead we drastically increased our supply. As a result, demand went up, and people started adopting lifestyles that made them even MORE dependent on gasoline. Urban sprawl, bedroom communities, less-fuel efficient SUVs, etc.

Now here we are in the same sinking boat we patched up 30 years ago, and folks are saying that the solution is to increase supply.

Since it didn't work the first time, I don't know why people think it's some kind of solution today. At the very best, it's a stopgap measure to get us through the transition to a less fuel-dependent society, but no more than that.

We (societally) need more talk about how that transition is going to happen, and less talk about where we're gonna get more oil until those transition plans are made.

Right now, it's like giving a junkie his fix BEFORE he agrees to talk about rehab. That ain't gonna work. He's just gonna get his fix and go on his merry way, not changing a damn thing. It's only whiole he's jonesing that he's gonna take the rehab idea seriously.

As far as I'm concerned, until we've changed the gas-dependent lifestyle we've adopted, I don't care HOW bad the gas crunch gets. Let's go back to rationing. Let's let it really hurt - and then, maybe out of that pain, we'll get the solutions we should've started developing the last time this happened.

It worked for 30 years the first time, it'll most likely at least work for another 15 the 2nd time (due to technical upgrades, etc..). The solution to everything is to put it off until later. I don't see what the problem is. We'll just let people figure it out in 15 years which gives us plenty of time to indulge ourselves in our beloved gasoline.

[Trefellin]

A very large proportion of cars in Brazil run on fuel made from sugar cane. The sugar cane produces quite a bit more energy than corn. That sounds like part of the solution. It would be good if the oil companies had to compete against such an efficient alternate fuel source.

[DavenIII]

I Kind of agree with Woooh, more time to develop other forms of energy isn't a "Bad" thing, I'll agree we could ALSO lower our demand but...

#1) me and MANY other people simply don't want to.
#2) as far as I know we aren't ready to make a wholesale switch "Right Now"

It takes time to switch, yeah maybe we are just putting it off because we don't want to deal with it, but eitherway we HAVE to put it off because even if we DID want to deal with it its still gonna take alot of time.

Again I'll mention that the Oil Companies are the biggest contributers to new sources of energy.

I'll agree Dess you have a valid point we COULD lower our demand.... but imho thats just not going to happen yet, that said assuming what your saying wasn't a possibility....what sense does it make to Tax and penalize the oil companies more?

your option is not an option that the people can "Vote" on its society that has to decide it wants to change and until thats the case (which it clearly is not yet) it simply will not happen, on the otherhand, if enough conservitives push for more drilling and vote someone who will do that into office then we CAN lower Gas prices ( for now and probably 15 years while we work on other energy sources)

[Leader Desslock]

I Kind of agree with Woooh, more time to develop other forms of energy isn't a "Bad" thing, I'll agree we could ALSO lower our demand but...

#1) me and MANY other people simple don't want too.
Fine. Pay the price. Doesn't matter to me. If it hurts you enough, you'll change. Until then, enjoy paying through the nose. I'm totally fine with that.

I'll agree Dess you have a valid point we COULD lower our demand.... but imho thats just not going to happen yet, that said assuming what your saying wasn't a possibility....what sense does it make to Tax and penalize the oil companies more?
If we need to lower our demand, what sense does it make to lower the price of gas? Tax the hell out of it, and use that revenue to invest in a less consuptive society.

That's what taxes are for, right? They're the stick with which government pushes society? To be used with the carrots of government incentives for folks investing in and using cleaner technologies? Isn't that basic economics?

[DavenIII]

Fine. Pay the price. Doesn't matter to me. If it hurts you enough, you'll change. Until then, enjoy paying through the nose. I'm totally fine with that.

Don't you mean Fine (Most of America) should pay the price? and don't you mean that when it starts to hurt most of America we'll make the government change?


If we need to lower our demand, what sense does it make to lower the price of gas?

It doesn't "Hurt" to lower prices while we continue develop alternate sources.

Tax the hell out of it, and use that revenue to invest in a less consuptive society.

That's what taxes are for, right? They're the stick with which government pushes society?

NO thats not what taxes are for and this is why we won't agree, government is not supposed to "Push" society... Society is supposed to "push" the government, if Society wants more Oil then the Government needs to figure out how to make that happen.

To be used with the carrots of government incentives for folks investing in and using cleaner technologies? Isn't that basic economics?

LOL ok so we are going to TAX Oil companies and then give them their OWN money back how does that make an sense...I've said it before and I'll say it again the largest contributers to "Cleaner" technologies is the Oil companies themselves.





here's our major difference, you seem to think that the government should override what the "majority" of American people want.

I believe the government exists to Serve the American peoples will, you "seem to" believe that the people of america exist to serve their government.


Edit: one more thing before I hit the sack, I simply don't get one thing, its our Oil (the people of America) we know were it is and we know how to get it, whats so bad about getting it? if Society decides we should be using newer energy NOW then we won't use the oil...big deal...its not like we hurt anyone or anything in getting the oil. Infact we can turn around and sell it to other countries for a great profit to help the American economy if society really decided to switch now.

there is nothing "Bad" about doing it so I don't understand why anyone could possibly be against it.

[HSaabedra]

Fine. Pay the price. Doesn't matter to me. If it hurts you enough, you'll change. Until then, enjoy paying through the nose. I'm totally fine with that.

People here are operating under the assumption that it'll get fixed as it did in the 80's. The biggest difference now is that we have China and India to worry about. In my case I work from home and have a part-time job a few blocks away easily accessible by a bus line, so I'm not concerned about gas prices.

Even as a gearhead, I realize the importance of living close to your employment and using whatever resources are available to you to do what you need to do without excessively relying on a vehicle.

If we need to lower our demand, what sense does it make to lower the price of gas? Tax the hell out of it, and use that revenue to invest in a less consuptive society.

In one of the legendary Ask John threads related to the industry, I made the comment that I paid up to $9/gallon willingly for my cars as they are programmed with different mapping for off-road use.

I would love to pay up to $10/gallon if it meant a sustainable and viable mass transit system in North Texas or anywhere else in the US that interconnected major cities through high speed passenger train links combined with bus/lightrail routes for urban and suburban enviroments.

That's what taxes are for, right? They're the stick with which government pushes society? To be used with the carrots of government incentives for folks investing in and using cleaner technologies? Isn't that basic economics?

If you're having to remind kids about the situation you lived through first hand, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes again. It's not going to be fixed by market forces, more drilling, or more barrels of oil. People are going to have to pay the price for four generations of poor planning and the fallacy of the American dream.

[Leader Desslock]

NO thats not what taxes are for and this is why we won't agree, government is not supposed to "Push" society...
Yes, of course it is. It does it all the time, and it's been doing it for as long as the idea of Government has been around.

We have higher taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol than we do on other items. Why? Because it's a government "stick". The government wishes to discourage the behaviour, so they tax it disproportionately.

The last time we had a gas crunch, the federal government (effectively) instituted a national speed limit of 55. Fines for exceeding this limit were a government "stick" to discourage wasting gas by driving at higher speeds.

The government also has "carrots". Related to the 55 MPH speed limit, many major cities instituted carpooling lanes - lanes in which people could drive if the vehicle held more than one person. These lanes were less congested and thus moved faster, which was a nice perk for those willing to change their commuting behaviour along the lines that the government wanted.

It's going on all around you. You pay through the nose for National Flood Insurance because you live in a high risk area? That's because the government is discouraging you from building a home there. That's a stick you just got hit with. You get to claim federal income tax exemptions for that solar panel on your roof and your hybrid car? That's a government carrot you just ate. Ever hear of an Enterprise Zone? Here's a hint - it's not an old Star Trek episode. You don't pay taxes on the money going into your 401k? That's because the government wants to encourage individual retirement saving.

That's one of the major purposes of government taxes and incentives - to encourage or discourage individual behaviour. This is a fairly basic concept in economics. Perhaps if you took a Macroeconomics class, the concepts would be more familiar to you.

If you're having to remind kids about the situation you lived through first hand, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes again. It's not going to be fixed by market forces, more drilling, or more barrels of oil. People are going to have to pay the price for four generations of poor planning and the fallacy of the American dream.
Yeah, I know. But... I thought the 70's were bad enough the FIRST time 'round, you know? Do we really need to repeat them?

[DavenIII]

Yes, of course it is. It does it all the time, and it's been doing it for as long as the idea of Government has been around.

No its still not what Taxes are for, just because they have been used that way before does not make it their purpose.

We have higher taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol than we do on other items. Why? Because it's a government "stick". The government wishes to discourage the behaviour, so they tax it disproportionately.

And I am against that as well. Cigarette companies and Alcohol companies are "Victims" (just like Oil companies are) when did it become the governments decision on what we choose to do or not do (barring things that are illegal) and anyhow, perhaps if you'd look a little further back into history you'd remember prohibition, when the government goes too far "We The People" as it says in the constitution.... change the Government, in my opinion these disproportionate taxes on Oil (among other things you just mentioned) is the government taking things too far, and soon enough when the truth becomes clear that its government taxes that are costing people money and not that actual companies themselves we the people will change how these taxes effect us by disallowing these disproportionate taxes.


The last time we had a gas crunch, the federal government (effectively) instituted a national speed limit of 55. Fines for exceeding this limit were a government "stick" to discourage wasting gas by driving at higher speeds.

The last time there was a gas crunch it was directly related to an embargo, which is exactly WHY we need to drill our OWN Oil to prevent that from happening.

The government also has "carrots". Related to the 55 MPH speed limit, many major cities instituted carpooling lanes - lanes in which people could drive if the vehicle held more than one person. These lanes were less congested and thus moved faster, which was a nice perk for those willing to change their commuting behaviour along the lines that the government wanted.

I understand these Carrots and Sticks, just recently McCain offered 300 Million dollars to the person/company that comes up with a better Battery powered car....

Now I have nothing against new technology but WTF that 300 million dollars is coming partially out of MY paycheck and I simply do not see any reason to pay someone twice, whoever comes up with a new technology is going to be payed regardless if his technology is useful, why should the government take my money and give it to that guy when If I think its a good technology I'm already going to do that without the governments "Help"

It's going on all around you. You pay through the nose for National Flood Insurance because you live in a high risk area? That's because the government is discouraging you from building a home there. That's a stick you just got hit with.


Well that one makes sense, the state, and sometimes the federal government is going to have to help get you out of the flood zone and they are going to have to help you rebuild if its flooded, thats not a stick, its just common sense...you live were it floods you pay more flood insurance.

You get to claim federal income tax exemptions for that solar panel on your roof and your hybrid car? That's a government carrot you just ate.

And thats something I don't agree with, I'm not against Solar power or Hybrid cars, but if you like that technology then use it.... but there is no reason for the government to get involved it should be a free market, if Solar or Wind or Electric energy is really "Better" then people will use it, why should they get the extra benefit of tax exemptions.

Ever hear of an Enterprise Zone? Here's a hint - it's not an old Star Trek episode.

I have a few near were I work in NJ, and again its something I strongly disagree with, why should the government decide I pay less taxes in some portion of NJ, I know I know its supposed to help growth in that area, when did it become the governments job to decide what a certain business (depending on local) can charge, I'd much prefer a free market where if those business want to succeed they just need to produce a better quality of product or produce the same quality at a cheaper price, its not right to charge less taxes in a certain area to spark growth....thats not the governments jurisdiction thats private owners responsibility.

You don't pay taxes on the money going into your 401k? That's because the government wants to encourage individual retirement saving.

And I eat that carrot willingly :P

If Social Security wasn't royally screwed up due to over borrowing and just inherent problems with the design (to many old people not enough young people) it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

That's one of the major purposes of government taxes and incentives - to encourage or discourage individual behaviour.

NO thats not a major purpose of the government, the government should not be encouraging or discouraging any individual behavior at all (within the rights and laws of its people)

Its not against the law to use oil smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol and until it is the government has no right to discourage these activities just because THEY DO through taxes does not make it "OK"

This is a fairly basic concept in economics. Perhaps if you took a Macroeconomics class, the concepts would be more familiar to you.

Its not that I don't understand how these things work, I understand how they work I just realize that they are inherently wrong and never should have been happening in the first place.

Yeah, I know. But... I thought the 70's were bad enough the FIRST time 'round, you know? Do we really need to repeat them?

I would hate to see something like the 70's again.....which is EXACTLY why we need to drill our own oil so an Embargo isn't quite as devastating as it was previously, its also why we need to stop taxing the hell out of oil companies also, more then half the price of Oil Is taxes, if the average person knew that to be the case America would be up in arms and telling the government to stop it, unfortunatly most people don't know that.




Filler....up.

[Bernard_Monsha]

People here are operating under the assumption that it'll get fixed as it did in the 80's. The biggest difference now is that we have China and India to worry about. In my case I work from home and have a part-time job a few blocks away easily accessible by a bus line, so I'm not concerned about gas prices.

That is because you have not been hit by the rise in everything else. India and China are not my concern or the governments when it comes to oil. We already fought one war over oil (not what most people thinking) and won it I fully expect we will be forced to do so again.


Even as a gearhead, I realize the importance of living close to your employment and using whatever resources are available to you to do what you need to do without excessively relying on a vehicle.

But what about the system that keeps you supplied with food and work that exclusively relies on a vehicle. Not everyone can afford to live close to their place of employment or have the luxury of working from home.




I would love to pay up to $10/gallon if it meant a sustainable and viable mass transit system in North Texas or anywhere else in the US that interconnected major cities through high speed passenger train links combined with bus/lightrail routes for urban and suburban enviroments.

AMTRAK is still around, I myself prefer the Interstate System over any light rail railroad system. Partially because restriction on personal vehicles is a restriction on personal freedom, freedom of movement outside government regulated routes is one of the reasons why the US is such an economic juggernaught. You can pack up a leave for another state to take a new job without any interference from any government officials.


If you're having to remind kids about the situation you lived through first hand, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes again. It's not going to be fixed by market forces, more drilling, or more barrels of oil. People are going to have to pay the price for four generations of poor planning and the fallacy of the American dream.

We are always doomed to repeat mistakes because no one will get beyond their own jaded veiws of them to make correction. Much better to sit in their caves and cynically remark I told you it would do this while others drown.

[Caster13]

I heard yesterday from a guy who just came from California that gas is $4.80 there now. This is so wrong. But there's not jack **** any of us can do.

I have GOT to get a Civic or something for a car.

[Meggles]

I have GOT to get a Civic or something for a car.

We traded in our Ford F-150(pickup truck) for a VW Golf, and I have to say, I like the golf better! Its surprisingly roomy for such a small car and it can go pretty fast. I think we get 25-27 mpg in the city and 35mpg on the highway. Go German engineering! :P

[Caster13]

My problem is that I can't really drive a stick. I got taught a little, but I need A LOT more practice. Stalling the car often is not a good thing. And the vast majority of high mileage cars have manual transmissions, so it's a must that I learn.

[taily]

I heard yesterday from a guy who just came from California that gas is $4.80 there now. This is so wrong. But there's not jack **** any of us can do.

I have GOT to get a Civic or something for a car.

Ya Americans are whiners.

It being twice as much here.

[Caster13]

We all know that other countries have more expensive gas, taily. But considering other countries have alternative and whatnot available and the gas companies in this country are the ones who control that type of stuff, preventing us from having access to it, and that this country is full of stupid people who still like SUVs and trucks, I think it's also bad for us.

For example, my mom is keeping HER giant SUV because she likes to feel safe, meanwhile it gets like 20 mpg with local driving, and there's no highway around where I used to live, thus she is a total idiot. You may be driving around in something that can protect you better, but you go broke in the process.

However people are finally starting to wise up. STARTING, key word there.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Ya Americans are whiners.

It being twice as much here.

We have had this discussion before, enjoy your vacation from the forum.

We all know that other countries have more expensive gas, taily.


Their gas is not more expensive, they simply allow their government to tack on a 120% tax on gasoline.

[Chidori Raikiri]

Bernard, is he gone for good?

[Trefellin]

There's also the fact that North Americans often drive much more than Europeans. Millions of people commute to work. Not everyone can live in the city where most of the jobs are. Residences in the cities are very expensive compared to housing elsewhere. My Aunt drives the 50 miles between Barrie and Toronto to get to work. There are tons of people driving 100 miles every day at these prices.

I don't know how common this is in Europe but I'd guess that far fewer people do it.

[Old Ape Face]

There's also the fact that North Americans often drive much more than Europeans. Millions of people commute to work. Not everyone can live in the city where most of the jobs are. Residences in the cities are very expensive compared to housing elsewhere. My Aunt drives the 50 miles between Barrie and Toronto to get to work. There are tons of people driving 100 miles every day at these prices.

I don't know how common this is in Europe but I'd guess that far fewer people do it.
I might be very wrong when I say this but in Europe driving is more of a Luxury, in the US it's more of a Commodity in which anyone who's under age is allowed to drive with little more then a driving education.

Boy that would suck having to drive 100 miles daily just to go to work =/

[Tuna]

I might be very wrong when I say this but in Europe driving is more of a Luxury, in the US it's more of a Commodity in which anyone who's under age is allowed to drive with little more then a driving education.

Boy that would suck having to drive 100 miles daily just to go to work =/I wouldn't call driving in the US a commodity as much as a necessity...the distances many people must cover here simply dwarf the mileage a European would likely cover during a week...

Covering a smaller area, public transport there is fairly ubiquitous...but here, a good 90% of the country doesn't even have access to such services...thus driving is something that simply cannot be avoided...

Prices are high everywhere, but it just hurts a bit more when you have no other options...
<<;

[Grizzbob]

My problem is that I can't really drive a stick. I got taught a little, but I need A LOT more practice. Stalling the car often is not a good thing. And the vast majority of high mileage cars have manual transmissions, so it's a must that I learn.

Not really, my '04 Civic gets between 30 & 38mpg(actually hits the EPA estimates, first car I've ever had that could), & it's an automatic(I'm not good with clutch pedals, either)....:P

[Azagthoth]

By the way, NYMEX crude dropped around 10 bucks in the last two days, although its still at a painful $136. I believe as soon as Bernanke and Paulson start a more aggressive monetary stance by backing the dollar prices should decline, although the days of $100 crude seem to be gone for good.

[Meggles]

I wouldn't call driving in the US a commodity as much as a necessity...the distances many people must cover here simply dwarf the mileage a European would likely cover during a week...

Covering a smaller area, public transport there is fairly ubiquitous...but here, a good 90% of the country doesn't even have access to such services...thus driving is something that simply cannot be avoided...

Most European countries are smaller, so most people have to drive less distances to get to the cities, its also easier for the government to give more of the country access to public transportation. I mean, my aunt works in the city, but the trains don't go out to where she lives so she has an hour long commute every day. I live pretty close to Boston, but I only use the trains when I actually go into the city. There isn't any public transportation in my town, even though my town is pretty big with a large population. We live close enough to my mom's work, that she could ride a bike there, but you have to take roads that are dangerous for cyclists to get there.

[Bakithagrappler]

Wow you made me really mad saying its nothing. 30$ a month, yea more like 250 more dollars a month for us that have to drive, All the way to work and actualy go out. It is ridiculous.

[Fobb]

Sorry we didn't all grow up with rich dad like you did. I know filling up puts a hole in the pockets of everyone I know. Me being a student working, and being paid jack squat, I used to try and help my parents pay for gas, twenty bucks used to fill half a tank in either vehicle, now I can't even afford to pay for half a tank, and a twenty gets me no where.

[Old Ape Face]

Wow you made me really mad saying its nothing. 30$ a month, yea more like 250 more dollars a month for us that have to drive, All the way to work and actualy go out. It is ridiculous.

I just found out I'm in the negative on my bank balance, for someone who works one menial job at a few cents over minimum wage this isn't exactly easy street for me.

my car is also at a quarter of a tank and I don't get paid till next Thursday.

My car will survive till then but this is the last time I'll ever go negative.

So try getting paid and not even be able to use the money you worked for.

guess the bank was my fault, but I can fix it.

[Caster13]

Gas prices are supposed to go down 20 cents in the next month. When I moved to where I am most of the places had gas for $4.15. Some were $4.17. Now in a couple areas it's $3.71 or a little higher. One place is $3.65.

[Old Ape Face]

Gas prices are supposed to go down 20 cents in the next month. When I moved to where I am most of the places had gas for $4.15. Some were $4.17. Now in a couple areas it's $3.71 or a little higher. One place is $3.65.

Indeed the cheapest Gas station near me is down to 3.99. it is not a very good number but I can at least breath easier, and spend more money at the mall :P

[DavenIII]

So try getting paid and not even be able to use the money you worked for.



I think thats called life, unless your rich.

I make pretty decent money, I still have nothing to spend it all goes to bills, mortgage payments/electric/cable/phone/gas/car payments/insurance....

[KabukiSaMuRaI]

I think thats called life, unless your rich.

I make pretty decent money, I still have nothing to spend it all goes to bills, mortgage payments/electric/cable/phone/gas/car payments/insurance....

We are all players in this game called LIFE. We seem to be getting by all right...

I just found out I'm in the negative on my bank balance, for someone who works one menial job at a few cents over minimum wage this isn't exactly easy street for me.

my car is also at a quarter of a tank and I don't get paid till next Thursday.

My car will survive till then but this is the last time I'll ever go negative.

So try getting paid and not even be able to use the money you worked for.

guess the bank was my fault, but I can fix it.

It happens. When I was younger, it happened one time. My bank was kind enough to give me a reprieve and not burden me with penalties. They relinquished my NSF charges and I am always careful not to make that mistake ever again.

I understand how you feel. Sometimes, my money is spent even before the check is deposited into my account.

Not really, my '04 Civic gets between 30 & 38mpg(actually hits the EPA estimates, first car I've ever had that could), & it's an automatic(I'm not good with clutch pedals, either)....:P

Civics seem to get good gas mileage in general. But usually, manual cars do get better gas mileage. Once you learn, I don't think you could go back to an automatic. I never thought it would happen to me but it did.

[Old Ape Face]

It happens. When I was younger, it happened one time. My bank was kind enough to give me a reprieve and not burden me with penalties. They relinquished my NSF charges and I am always careful not to make that mistake ever again.

I understand how you feel. Sometimes, my money is spent even before the check is deposited into my account.

Fortunately they only took 30 dollars more for each transaction that went in the negative which only broke almost 200, so I easily paid it off, but I'm still very low.

Luckily gas went down quite a bit and It's makeing me feel better.

[Old Ape Face]

I think thats called life, unless your rich.

I make pretty decent money, I still have nothing to spend it all goes to bills, mortgage payments/electric/cable/phone/gas/car payments/insurance....

It takes two well paying jobs to live comfortable in Connecticut. I live with my parents and have a single low wage job at a super market. I am lower then the poverty level in this country. I need to find something to make my life a little easier.

[Cow]

Gas in CT was the highest in the country for a while..which surpassed CA I was quite surprised. And 4.30 cents is something to complain about.

[superplough]

I's been dropping here lately, gone down from NZ 2.30 a litre to 2.12 a litre.

US 6.32 a gallon to 5.83 a gallon.

[DavenIII]

It takes two well paying jobs to live comfortable in Connecticut. I live with my parents and have a single low wage job at a super market. I am lower then the poverty level in this country. I need to find something to make my life a little easier.

Same thing in NY ( I have relatives that live in Con. too so I know its expensive up there aswell)

You are lucky to still be at your parents house, I have a fulltime "Career" Job and still can barely afford to live on my own....even with your "Lower then poverty level" income when you aren't paying rent and utilities among other things (like Food) its like you are rich compared to me :P

And Its rather difficult to find a second job that will let you work 4 days a week from starting from 7pm or later.

[Bernard_Monsha]

It takes two well paying jobs to live comfortable in Connecticut. I live with my parents and have a single low wage job at a super market. I am lower then the poverty level in this country. I need to find something to make my life a little easier.


You mean besides free housing and food?

[Old Ape Face]

You mean besides free housing and food?

Uh My future tells me free Housing and Food wont last forever, and when forever comes I'll be screwed up a river without a paddle.

[DavenIII]

I'll be screwed up a river without a paddle.

Been there done that...kinda sucks.... just getting out of it now.

Luckily for you (and me at the time) we always had parents we could fall back on if we screwed up, some people don't have that....those people are the ones that really get screwed.

[Old Ape Face]

Been there done that...kinda sucks.... just getting out of it now.

Luckily for you (and me at the time) we always had parents we could fall back on if we screwed up, some people don't have that....those people are the ones that really get screwed.

Yeah, but if they come out of it alive they really did good.

The thing though is I'm surrounded by opportunity and I'm just browsing around to see what I'm actually good in and when I find it I'll do fine.

I took an IQ test and they tolled me I have a Learning disability. I'm a genius at functional things like Building and puzzles, but when it comes to Math or Verbal things I'm a little lower from Average. Not that the test tolled me anything new but that puts a title on me about what I really need to focus on.

Basically you would want me to be your architect but god help you if I need to write about it.

[Suiko Eiji]

Basically you would want me to be your architect but god help you if I need to write about it.

Except that architecture is something like 90% math. I think I would have loved doing architecture, except that my math skills aren't that great. I struggled with math from an early age and was ****ed over by some government schools' decisions, which prevented me from catching up. Even struggled with maths in university, too.

Though, getting back to gas prices, they're coming down here. I just filled up yesterday for $3.78/gallon for under $40 bucks. I'm glad they're coming down already and hope they'll continue to fall a little more because I'm "in between" jobs right now.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Though, getting back to gas prices, they're coming down here. I just filled up yesterday for $3.78/gallon for under $40 bucks. I'm glad they're coming down already and hope they'll continue to fall a little more because I'm "in between" jobs right now.


Politically it is in the Democrats best interest to stick it to you at the pump until next year. That is why they are running this shell game on domestic drilling with their new buzz word "hoax".

[Old Ape Face]

Except that architecture is something like 90% math. I think I would have loved doing architecture, except that my math skills aren't that great. I struggled with math from an early age and was ****ed over by some government schools' decisions, which prevented me from catching up. Even struggled with maths in university, too.

Though, getting back to gas prices, they're coming down here. I just filled up yesterday for $3.78/gallon for under $40 bucks. I'm glad they're coming down already and hope they'll continue to fall a little more because I'm "in between" jobs right now.


I'm ok with math, if I work with math regularly I would do it better then say doing long term writing. My mind just works funny. I haven't taken a math course in over 4 years, all I really need is a bit of time and practice.

Also in Technical classes I've taken we've done a few tests where we had to build things. one of the tests was to build a bridge out of long thin Balsa Wood sticks. I remember my bridge's design was extremely intricate, using the X support Idea. The only problem I had at the time was it's construction was very weak, it held up to people standing on it only to a point, If I built it perfectly it would have been the best one in the class.

Another test we did was to build a robotic arm out of wood and those medical syringes. Again my build was very sloppily done but if it were built correctly it would have been the best, and it still did really well.

[DavenIII]

IQ Test don't mean much,I'm supposed to be a genius (137 IQ) yet I had to go to summer school for ever year of highschool and I do plenty of stupid things.

[Old Ape Face]

IQ Test don't mean much,I'm supposed to be a genius (137 IQ) yet I had to go to summer school for ever year of highschool and I do plenty of stupid things.

they measure you on 3 different categories for a real IQ tests, it's the Verbal Math and Puzzle tests, out of the average of all three of those tests is your IQ, however, if out of those 3 tests, 1 is lower than the rest or higher than the rest by a significant amount then there's something wrong supposedly.

but a high IQ doesn't necessarily mean you're a Genius, you're intelligent but you're not Einstein.

[DavenIII]

they measure you on 3 different categories for a real IQ tests, it's the Verbal Math and Puzzle tests, out of the average of all three of those tests is your IQ, however, if out of those 3 tests, 1 is lower than the rest or higher than the rest by a significant amount then there's something wrong supposedly.

but a high IQ doesn't necessarily mean you're a Genius, you're intelligent but you're not Einstein.

Yeah I know Mine was administered in High School Freshman year at the suggestion of a guidance counselor, they wanted to know why I got 95-100 on every test for every subject but always did poorly in the classes because of lack of homework/reports etc etc....

I could have told them the answer, but they wanted to test me.

[Suiko Eiji]

^^@Yukimura; we'd done labs and such like that in Physics and a technology education elective I had in middle school. Shame that University-level education wasn't more like that. Though, I don't want to make it sound like I'm knocking my degree; it's something I love and part of a very specialized niche. But, if I told people I had a BS in Architecture, I wouldn't have to explain to everyone what it was. :lol:

Politically it is in the Democrats best interest to stick it to you at the pump until next year. That is why they are running this shell game on domestic drilling with their new buzz word "hoax".

While my politics are usually dominated by my wallet, for once, I'm not wanting to make a political issue out of this. I just want prices to fall so I can still afford to do the absolutely essential driving I need to do until the next batch of income comes along.

[Old Ape Face]

^^@Yukimura; we'd done labs and such like that in Physics and a technology education elective I had in middle school. Shame that University-level education wasn't more like that. Though, I don't want to make it sound like I'm knocking my degree; it's something I love and part of a very specialized niche. But, if I told people I had a BS in Architecture, I wouldn't have to explain to everyone what it was. :lol:


So while the Structural integrity might not be the best the thought design is Genius. lol

[Caster13]

The reason why gas has gone down is that nobody is driving anywhere. However with gas going down people are gonna be driving more again, which means that it will go up. Unfortunately a lot of people are stupid and don't realize this, so we might be screwed.

If someone was to make people aware of this then gas prices would only continue to fall.

[DavenIII]

The reason why gas has gone down is that nobody is driving anywhere. However with gas going down people are gonna be driving more again, which means that it will go up. Unfortunately a lot of people are stupid and don't realize this, so we might be screwed.

If someone was to make people aware of this then gas prices would only continue to fall.

Umm didn't Bush allow offshore drilling?

Pretty sure that would effect the market and lower the prices like we are seeing them drop now, of course its all still tied up by state laws still I believe, but the point is Bush saying its allowed shows that the government isn't 100% against Drilling our own Oil...which effects oil prices. obviously less driving effects it to...but thats not the reason for the most recent decrease in cost.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-drilling15-2008jul15,0,5999538.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-drilling15-2008jul15,0,5999538.story)

[Caster13]

I say they try looking in Montana. Parts of that state have fossils galore, which in turn means that they must have an assload of fossil fuels.

Plus there is still Texas and the large amount of oil that they found in Nebraska. You combine all three and gas will PLUMET.

[DavenIII]

I say they try looking in Montana. Parts of that state have fossils galore, which in turn means that they must have an assload of fossil fuels.

Plus there is still Texas and the large amount of oil that they found in Nebraska. You combine all three and gas will PLUMET.

dude its known we have like 300+ (absolute bare minimum reports say 50 years +)Years of Oil left, its just that the government has never allowed us to drill our own oil, we don't need to look for it we already know were MASS quantities of it is....we just need to be "Allowed" to drill for it.

that and we need more refineries

[Caster13]

Over 300 years? Are you serious? I don't think we'll be using that anyway, due to global warming.

Well I'm pretty sure that when Obama gets in (I seriously think this is a definite) we will be allowed to drill our own oil. Considering that Bush is a Texas oilman....<_<

[DavenIII]

Well I'm pretty sure that when Obama gets in (I seriously think this is a definite) we will be allowed to drill our own oil. Considering that Bush is a Texas oilman....<_<

I personally think its a definite that McCain gets in, and I know that if Obama gets in there is no way in heck we are going to drill for our own Oil, Obama wants to tax the heck out of Oil Companies and force us to use "Greener" technologies which...really aren't ready yet.

Obama is all about Raising Taxes for the Environment and other things I generally don't care about.

McCain is for keeping the Taxes the same or hopefully lowering them, (I especially hope he lowers the taxes the Oil Companies are paying)

pretty much if you want to save money you vote McCain if you want to waste money (well thats arguable...I consider it a waste...some people don't) then Vote for Obama.

[DavenIII]

Global Warming doesn't exist btw.

[Old Ape Face]

Global Warming doesn't exist btw.

the earth didn't freeze over 65 million years ago becuase the Dinosaurs found out how to block out the sun with a huge meteor. That was a lie, the truth is God created earth 5000 years ago, it's always looked this way 5000 years ago and it always will becuase nothing that god creates changes, unless human activity is present.

I apologize to any religious people for this post.

[Caster13]

Then why have winters been getting warmer since the late '90s and keep doing so? Or the icecaps getting smaller and permafrost melting? or the temperature of the planet getting warmer constantly?

btw I may be religious, but I refuse to believe that the earth began 5000 years ago. there's no way that humans could have reproduced that fast and that much. Do I believe in Adam and Eve? yes. but 5000 years is just too short. Plus there's no ****ing way that we lived along with dinosaurs.

[DavenIII]

Then why have winters been getting warmer since the late '90s and keep doing so? Or the icecaps getting smaller and permafrost melting? or the temperature of the planet getting warmer constantly?

btw I refuse to believe that the earth began 5000 years ago. there's no way that humans could have reproduced that fast and that much. Do I believe in Adam and Eve? yes. but 5000 years is just too short.


Natural Cycles the earth goes through, there is actual evidence for core samples that shows this, this is not the hottest the planets ever been...infact did you know in the 70's all the leading scientists claimed that earth was on the path to another Ice Age?

and yeah what about the Ice Age's to begin with, did humans some how cause the earth to freeze over thousands of years ago? no...its a natural cycle that happens on earth.

I don't believe any of the religious origin theories to a T, they all have "Some" truth in them but they can't be taken literally.

Also there are plenty of fossils that have been dated back much further then 5000 years... the earth IS older then 5000 years old regardless of what other people want to believe.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Umm didn't Bush allow offshore drilling?

he passed an executive order Congress did not let it pass though. They want angry voters to vote for them because of gas prices.

[DavenIII]

he passed an executive order Congress did not let it pass though. They want angry voters to vote for them because of gas prices.

It didn't go through :( Nuts.....

anyhow the fact that he tried to get it to go through can certainly effect gas prices...even if he wasn't successful.

[Caster13]

he passed an executive order Congress did not let it pass though. They want angry voters to vote for them because of gas prices.

So we're basically pawns for the rich in this country. great, just great.

inb4 you're only realizing that now?

[DavenIII]

So we're basically pawns for the rich in this country. great, just great.

inb4 you're only realizing that now?

least bush was TRYING to do the right thing, tho Bernard's right, the congress won't allow it it hurts certain peoples platforms, they prefer us to be angry about oil until after the elections are over.

[Caster13]

This is why I hate politics. Lawyers suck too. Hell anyone with money who thinks that they're better than everyone else.

[Old Ape Face]

This is why I hate politics. Lawyers suck too. Hell anyone with money who thinks that they're better than everyone else.

That is only one bad thing about being rich another is everyone wants your money, and they will try to get it with their lives some times.

[Caster13]

That is only one bad thing about being rich another is everyone wants your money, and they will try to get it with their lives some times.

Which makes making true friends extremely hard. It also means that you can only marry another rich girl, but unfortunately most of those are shallow, which means if you don't have good looks then you have a problem.

Solution: keep your original friends and when trying to make friends and whatnot, don't tell them that you're rich.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... gas is going down in my neck of the woods. that's a good thing, right?

[Old Ape Face]

Which makes making true friends extremely hard. It also means that you can only marry another rich girl, but unfortunately most of those are shallow, which means if you don't have good looks then you have a problem.

Solution: keep your original friends and when trying to make friends and whatnot, don't tell them that you're rich.

Screw relationships I Have Money!!

[Shiroiyuki]

... gas is going down in my neck of the woods. that's a good thing, right?

Personally, I think they are trying to lull us into a false sense of security before CRUSHING OUR SOULS (and wallets) WITH THEIR OVERPRICED EVIL.

Could just be the pessimist in me speaking, though.

[Black Cat]

the next candidates aren't bringing any hope for this "oil problem" either. McCain is Bush's clone and Obama is...a celebrity. Not to sound like an Illuminati conspiracy theorist, but oil people really are controlling America.

[Cow]

IQ Test don't mean much,I'm supposed to be a genius (137 IQ) yet I had to go to summer school for ever year of highschool and I do plenty of stupid things.

That's not a genius IQ no offense.
To qualify for Mensa you need 180+

[DavenIII]

That's not a genius IQ no offense.
To qualify for Mensa you need 180+

Actually 140+ is considered Genius. Mensa I "Thought" was 160 not 180.

Edit: I looked it up Mensa doesn't even have a IQ cutoff, its a percentile thing, you have to be in the top 2% of whatever Intelligence test you take, I wasn't, I was in the top 5% though if I remember correctly.

[Raziel_MGS]

the next candidates aren't bringing any hope for this "oil problem" either. McCain is Bush's clone and Obama is...a celebrity. Not to sound like an Illuminati conspiracy theorist, but oil people really are controlling America.

too bad you are completely wrong

[DavenIII]

too bad you are completely wrong

I've heard people say McCain is just another term of Bush, I can not imagine how people can believe that, McCain is absolutely nothing like Bush, as a conservative Republican I can tell you he leans WAY too far to the left on MANY issues, most conservatives don't like McCain at all...but we have noone else to vote for, as far as I'm concerned Obama might as well be the devil.

[HSaabedra]

That is because you have not been hit by the rise in everything else. India and China are not my concern or the governments when it comes to oil. We already fought one war over oil (not what most people thinking) and won it I fully expect we will be forced to do so again.

That war that you speak of wasn't a war, as much as it was a series of backroom deals. Keep your assumptions to yourself as not everyone has had to deal with an entire family move back in because of the high cost of living and commuting. The cost of food and other items hasn't affected me as much since I live close to Kroger, but for the most part its still negated by the higher cost of utilities.


But what about the system that keeps you supplied with food and work that exclusively relies on a vehicle. Not everyone can afford to live close to their place of employment or have the luxury of working from home.

People make the choice to commute 2+ hours a day operating under false assumptions of increased income so why should it matter to me that others are hit harder for their choice to live in the suburbs?

AMTRAK is still around, I myself prefer the Interstate System over any light rail railroad system. Partially because restriction on personal vehicles is a restriction on personal freedom, freedom of movement outside government regulated routes is one of the reasons why the US is such an economic juggernaught. You can pack up a leave for another state to take a new job without any interference from any government officials.

The Interstate system wasn't designed for personal travel to begin with so I fail to see how it correlates to personal freedom. I never once advocated restrictions on personal travel, merely the right to pay more to be able to develop a mass transit system that was worth a damn.

We are always doomed to repeat mistakes because no one will get beyond their own jaded veiws of them to make correction. Much better to sit in their caves and cynically remark I told you it would do this while others drown.

When I was 13, my first communion godparent gave me the deed to four oil wells in West Texas at a time when oil was $18 a barrel. I still have those in my possession and am constantly hounded by Big Oil for them as they've been predicted to generate up to 50,000 barrels a day.

If anyone really believes that more oil is going to solve what is essentially a value disparity caused by number rigging by greedy people in suits then the problem lies in perception and lack of information and not in a lack of oil.

[DavenIII]

If anyone really believes that more oil is going to solve what is essentially a value disparity caused by number rigging by greedy people in suits then the problem lies in perception and lack of information and not in a lack of oil.

This has been proven incorrect time and time again, like i said earlier, when Bush tried to allow off-shore drilling gas prices dropped, just the "Prospect" of getting more oil made prices drop, had it actually passed through congress there is NO DOUBT that prices would have fallen.

The simplest solutions are often the best solutions, supply and demand is simple and its an absolute..

[DavenIII]

People make the choice to commute 2+ hours a day operating under false assumptions of increased income so why should it matter to me that others are hit harder for their choice to live in the suburbs?





people made that choice when it was a reasonable decision, now they have 3 kids have been working in the same place for 10-15 years and are too old to easily get another job with similar pay...they are stuck, they no longer have a choice, that good choice they made 10-15 years ago has now put them in a situation were they no longer have any options....and then foreclosure happens.

[Raziel_MGS]

yes, just the democrat controlled congress opening the ability to drill and start negotiating will drop oil prices dramatically, we dont even have to do it, just say we might. Saudi Arabia spends 4 dollars to drill oil per barrel, the oil companies spend at least 3.25 per barrel, who we should be going after instead of big oil is the companies that drill, not ones that refine, like exxon

[Caster13]

Axl, you must be doing awesome financially with the money coming out of those wells.

but we have noone else to vote for, as far as I'm concerned Obama might as well be the devil.

Finally, someone else who also thinks he might be the Antichrist. 0.0

If anyone really believes that more oil is going to solve what is essentially a value disparity caused by number rigging by greedy people in suits then the problem lies in perception and lack of information and not in a lack of oil.

Agreed. In my opinion gas prices are the biggest price fixing in all of history.

[HSaabedra]

This has been proven incorrect time and time again, like i said earlier, when Bush tried to allow off-shore drilling gas prices dropped, just the "Prospect" of getting more oil made prices drop, had it actually passed through congress there is NO DOUBT that prices would have fallen.

The simplest solutions are often the best solutions, supply and demand is simple and its an absolute..

Do you not understand the stock market and the impact of news on it? The price of oil didn't fall because of a failed initiative, it fell due to the updated inventory reports that were released that same day that demonstrated an increase in available product due to the decrease in demand.

Before you go off and make flying leaps of logic that make no sense and do not take actual information into account, do some actual research instead on relying on outdated models and political noise.

[DavenIII]

You can deny it all you want but supply and demand still works, we get more Oil (assuming we can refine it fast enough which is another problem) the Price of Gas will go down, there is no argument that can possibly change that fact.

now you can be like Desslock and say you don't want us to drill for oil because you don't think we should be using Gas in the first place and you want us to switch over to other energy sources right now, that's a valid opinion, one I don't agree with but regardless it makes sense, but to sit there and tell me that gas prices won't go down if we start drilling is absolutely ridiculous.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Saudi Arabia spends 4 dollars to drill oil per barrel, the oil companies spend at least 3.25 per barrel, who we should be going after instead of big oil is the companies that drill, not ones that refine, like exxon

But 90% of all oil reserves are owned by the governments in question. Mostly tin horn dictators and theological crazies.

Do you not understand the stock market and the impact of news on it? The price of oil didn't fall because of a failed initiative, it fell due to the updated inventory reports that were released that same day that demonstrated an increase in available product due to the decrease in demand.

There is something else going on because there have been two storms in the Gulf and prices dropped. I have never seen that in the futures market.

Just to show how much drilling will affect the poor caribou.

http://www.msunderestimated.com/CaribouNoImpact.jpg

[Holy Knight]

While drilling for more oil may reduce prices for a while, they will go back up to current levels and beyond eventually, but that's not my concern for drilling on home soil. If you'll take a look at Saudi Arabia's economy, it basically revolves around the riches brought on by oil, which is not an economy.

Let's take this into perspective on our Canadian soil, where there's plenty of drilling going on in the prairies. One will notice that the provincial economy is starting to flounder since everyone is going off to work in the oil rigs and the general populace is demanding dividends from the revenues of oil. Thus, you have an unsustainable economy brought on by the riches of the soil because of cash overflow. If everyone is rich, then they stop working and thus, no economy.

Now, if the U.S. does indeed have vast amounts of oil reserves, is this such a good thing if the home economy will, in the long term, break down further than it already has? An economy revolving around a single product is much too specialized to work, which is what I fear may happen.

As such, it is much more beneficial, long-term speaking, to search out new sources of fuel, however futile that may seem for a decade or so until an alternative arises. So I say, forget drilling for more oil. What we have is good enough for now to support the other industries that require said oil. Our methods of transportation will simply have to adapt as they use too much oil as it is.

Now, off-topic :

Actually 140+ is considered Genius. Mensa I "Thought" was 160 not 180.

Edit: I looked it up Mensa doesn't even have a IQ cutoff, its a percentile thing, you have to be in the top 2% of whatever Intelligence test you take, I wasn't, I was in the top 5% though if I remember correctly.

Mensa is generally around IQ 134. But since all they are is a society that makes games and is composed of mostly socially inept people who gather to play board games and watch Star Trek episodes, some would doubt that.

IQ 160+ is the Prometheus society and 174+ is the Mega society. IQ 130 is held to be the top 5% and 140 top 1%.

[Bernard_Monsha]

While drilling for more oil may reduce prices for a while, they will go back up to current levels and beyond eventually, but that's not my concern for drilling on home soil. If you'll take a look at Saudi Arabia's economy, it basically revolves around the riches brought on by oil, which is not an economy.



Come on HK, Canada has hockey sticks and Maple Syrup to fall back on.

Also Saudi's are all lazy, if you go to Saudi Arabia no Saudi's work it is always Malays, Flips, or Indonesians working. Canadians will work and always have being cut from the same cloth as the US when it comes to work ethic.

I am also looking forward to finding alternate fuels in space ala Planetes. I just want to see my beloved Corps set boots on the moon to clain all that H3 fuel for America and out evil industrial fusion reactors.

[Caster13]

There is a s***load of talk about alternative energy sources. However, there's something that most people don't know....practically all of the research being done on alternative energy is RAN BY THE OIL COMPANIES!!!

[Holy Knight]

Come on HK, Canada has hockey sticks and Maple Syrup to fall back on.

I don't doubt that, actually. We're fanatics over these products. :lol:

Also Saudi's are all lazy, if you go to Saudi Arabia no Saudi's work it is always Malays, Flips, or Indonesians working. Canadians will work and always have being cut from the same cloth as the US when it comes to work ethic.

I don't know. From what I hear, they take in the 16-20 year old range and give them 100k$ yearly salaries. That can't be good; they're not learning to build anything. Yes, we're as much hard workers as Americans, but the money might be getting to everyone's heads, especially since we're talking about Saskatchewan and Alberta, which aren't known to be hotspots of activity more stimulating than growing wheat.

There is a s***load of talk about alternative energy sources. However, there's something that most people don't know....practically all of the research being done on alternative energy is RAN BY THE OIL COMPANIES!!!

That would make plenty of sense business-wise for them to invest in such research, but since they killed some alternate energy sources in the past and since I doubt nearly all of it is being conducted by them, I'm going to need a source or some proof on this one.

[Caster13]

Actually a few people here have said it before.

[Black Cat]

I've heard people say McCain is just another term of Bush, I can not imagine how people can believe that, McCain is absolutely nothing like Bush, as a conservative Republican I can tell you he leans WAY too far to the left on MANY issues, most conservatives don't like McCain at all...but we have noone else to vote for, as far as I'm concerned Obama might as well be the devil.


im not talking about these meaningless domestic issues. he is the same as Bush when it comes to foreign policy. As for Obama, i think he just likes to talk a lot

[Azagthoth]

Now, if the U.S. does indeed have vast amounts of oil reserves, is this such a good thing if the home economy will, in the long term, break down further than it already has? An economy revolving around a single product is much too specialized to work, which is what I fear may happen.


I'm failing to comprehend "a further breakdown of the economy." Even with consumer retraction due to over leveraging in the housing market and surging energy prices Q1 growth was still around 1% real with Q2 numbers reporting positive 1.9% as well as 5.5% unemployment, which is considered full employment by US standards. Bernanke also spoke recently of stronger deflationary measures, so inflation will stay well below 4%. Stocks are regaining momentum and housing is going through a long awaited correction. Oil is falling, the dollar is rising, so I believe the economy will be just fine. The Volker/Carter recession of the 1970s was armageddon compared to this "slowdown." In the long term the economy is totally fine, the short term is where we're experiencing so difficulties. My apologies if I misunderstood the point of your post.

[Old Ape Face]

im not talking about these meaningless domestic issues. he is the same as Bush when it comes to foreign policy. As for Obama, i think he just likes to talk a lot

As of right now you might as well call the election an automatic win for Obama whether we like it or not. That's how a lot of people think in this country and it will beat the **** out of us in the end.

[DavenIII]

As of right now you might as well call the election an automatic win for Obama whether we like it or not. That's how a lot of people think in this country and it will beat the **** out of us in the end.

I think you are mistaken, its closer then you think, and closer then the polls reflect and will only be swayed more towards McCain as time goes on (and if they actually start talking about issues ....)

sure NY/NJ and California are gonna vote for Obama...they vote for democrates period...like all the time... I'll waste my vote on McCain in my state but in the midwest and the south McCain is going to mop up.

[Holy Knight]

I'm failing to comprehend "a further breakdown of the economy." Even with consumer retraction due to over leveraging in the housing market and surging energy prices Q1 growth was still around 1% real with Q2 numbers reporting positive 1.9% as well as 5.5% unemployment, which is considered full employment by US standards. Bernanke also spoke recently of stronger deflationary measures, so inflation will stay well below 4%. Stocks are regaining momentum and housing is going through a long awaited correction. Oil is falling, the dollar is rising, so I believe the economy will be just fine. The Volker/Carter recession of the 1970s was armageddon compared to this "slowdown." In the long term the economy is totally fine, the short term is where we're experiencing so difficulties. My apologies if I misunderstood the point of your post.

I'll admit the wording was a bit dramatic. I simply meant that the economy has gone down and that if the scenario I envisaged were to happen, then things wouldn't be good. Naturally, in the long term, the economy does go up so long as people work towards a sustainable economy, which wouldn't be the case if too much emphasis is placed on oil. The short term would indeed be extremely profitable, but the long term would cause such a breakdown for lack of diversity, especially once oil becomes scarce yet again.

[DavenIII]

I'm not advocating we stop trying to come up with other energy sources, but for right now in the short term I see no reason not to use what we know is sitting right there for our consumption.