FBI turns to rickroll tactics

[Hara!]

http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-38.html?tag=nefd.pop

The FBI has recently adopted a novel investigative technique: posting hyperlinks that purport to be illegal videos of minors having sex, and then raiding the homes of anyone willing to click on them.

Undercover FBI agents used this hyperlink-enticement technique, which directed Internet users to a clandestine government server, to stage armed raids of homes in Pennsylvania, New York, and Nevada last year. The supposed video files actually were gibberish and contained no illegal images.

A CNET News.com review of legal documents shows that courts have approved of this technique, even though it raises questions about entrapment, the problems of identifying who's using an open wireless connection--and whether anyone who clicks on a FBI link that contains no child pornography should be automatically subject to a dawn raid by federal police.

Roderick Vosburgh, a doctoral student at Temple University who also taught history at La Salle University, was raided at home in February 2007 after he allegedly clicked on the FBI's hyperlink. Federal agents knocked on the door around 7 a.m., falsely claiming they wanted to talk to Vosburgh about his car. Once he opened the door, they threw him to the ground outside his house and handcuffed him.

I will never follow a link from 4chan again.

[KatayokuのTenshi]

Are armed raids seriously necessary? Or tricking your way into someone's home, and then throwing them outside just to handcuff them?

Why not get a warrant, or arrest them on suspicion? Do they expect people to be dug in when they get there?

[Vaikyuko]

Interesting way of doing things, but what if the link is deceptive and you're lead to click on it by a malicious contact of yours? You then automatically will be raided? Not really fair.

Curious to see how this works out.

[Mr March]

Yeah, I'd be curious how the FBI intends to explain justifying raids for someone who followed a blind link.

Hate someone on the internet?
Got a bitter opponent on a message board you frequent?
Just feel like having a bit of fun?
The FBI makes it easy for you to setup your worst enemy or hordes of innocent internet users for a good old arrest.

Or have things fallen to the point in the US where the FBI and other law enforcement institutions are no longer subject to penalty for such false invasions?

[Phantom]

I wouldn't want the internet to become some kind of death trap where you would be afraid where you clicked and while in this instant it may be doing good what price are people willing to pay in order to catch these people?

[earsofdoom]

Slippery slope really.
click on a link to download a song. *FBI raid*
click on a "I hate Goerge Bush" site. *FBI raid*
etc

I can't see this technique lasting very long.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

If you don't hear from Char for a while, it's because I sent him an FBI link. ;)

[Ken-Ohki]

But, I've clicked links claiming to be child porn links so I have a reference website to report. Several times on Idlechan some idiot has posted something that looks like it may be a child porn link and if it is I report it to Cyber Angels, which I'm a member of http://www.cyberangels.org/

Twice Cyber Angels has sent me an email saying that the FBI are investigating my links so I feel I've done a service but if this is how the FBI are going to run investigations I guess the only thing I can do is report EVERY single link I see as possible child porn. Silly, but I guess I'll just have to give more work to Cyber Angels <_<

Edit: I worry that some people may misunderstand my post so I thought I would clarify what happens when I suspect a sight contains CP. Idlechan is a worksafe imageboard for anime (there is an adult section I don't visit). Sometimes someone comes on that site and posts a link that'll say something like "click here for young girls" so I groan and click the link. It'll either be anime girls lolikon, spam garbage nothing, underage idol girls (that young idol whatever crap), or CP. If it turns out to be a link with CP I copy the link and send the link to Cyber Angels.

I don't want anyone to think I purposely click links that say something like "12 year old girl sex here" or anything, something so blatant I'd simply report.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Are armed raids seriously necessary? Or tricking your way into someone's home, and then throwing them outside just to handcuff them?

Why not get a warrant, or arrest them on suspicion? Do they expect people to be dug in when they get there?

Nah, it will be fun to see if we know anyone who gets 9mm's pointed at their heads for accidentally clicking those links on purpose. Better yet for "Research" that seems to be so popular.

[earsofdoom]

Nah, it will be fun to see if we know anyone who gets 9mm's pointed at their heads for accidentally clicking those links on purpose. Better yet for "Research" that seems to be so popular.

If they post links to lolicon i can't wait to see which member's of this site get raided.

[Justinian]

Wow...that's illegal..for them to do that...nice...America really sucks.

[CrossboneGundam]

I will never follow a link from 4chan again.

Didn't you just basically admit you actively search out child pornography?

Wow...that's illegal..for them to do that...nice...America really sucks.

Uh, no? Are you just bitter because you're afraid you'll get caught when you look for child porn?

[Justinian]

Uh, no? Are you just bitter because you're afraid you'll get caught when you look for child porn?

The child porn thing is illegal...but they are also stepping on some laws by by busting into peoples houses because they clicked a link. I would really like to see them try to justify that constitutionally. People have rights to prevent that.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

The child porn thing is illegal...but they are also stepping on some laws by by busting into peoples houses because they clicked a link. I would really like to see them try to justify that constitutionally. People have rights to prevent that.

Becasue the FBI kicks *** (Don't worry this link isn't an FBI Rick roll) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=G1JX07MCCL4)

Make no mistake about it, Deputy.
I'll cut your ****in' head off and not give a **** how it reads in the report sheet.

[Smith]

I wonder if there are any 'neighborhoods' the FBI considers 'off limits'...

[Tenou]

If (and I do mean if) the FBI are being responsible about this, then they are also taking note where the links are coming from. If it's not coming from a legit FBI referral, then it should be ignored because it's too easily abused.
Not that I agree with any of this. Though CP is one of the worst crimes, I don't think this is the way to go. Too many rights are being infringed and too many laws are being bent to the point of broken. But I'll leave it at that because if I continue it will become a political rant, and we can't have that, now can we?

[Old Ape Face]

If (and I do mean if) the FBI are being responsible about this, then they are also taking note where the links are coming from. If it's not coming from a legit FBI referral, then it should be ignored because it's too easily abused.
Not that I agree with any of this. Though CP is one of the worst crimes, I don't think this is the way to go. Too many rights are being infringed and too many laws are being bent to the point of broken. But I'll leave it at that because if I continue it will become a political rant, and we can't have that, now can we?

being given the opportunity to break the law by the law just so the FBI can arrest the persecutor is like someone failing the Alcohol tests completely 100% alcohol free. Seriously the police system is getting a bit propagantic.

[Bernard_Monsha]

The child porn thing is illegal...but they are also stepping on some laws by by busting into peoples houses because they clicked a link. I would really like to see them try to justify that constitutionally. People have rights to prevent that.


They have more than one criteria before they bust down your door with a warrant. You have no constitutional right to look at child pornography, and if it crosses state or country lines it automatically falls into Federal jurisdiction.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

It's easier just not to look at CP. I'm surprised you people have SUCH DIFFICULTY WITH THIS SIMPLE TASK. :(

[Trefellin]

I don't really care what they(FBI) do as long as it does not violate the constitution. I feel that a country's constitution should be held as sacred and it is infinitely immoral, in my opinion, to violate it.

[Caine]

I definitely see how this could raise some entrapment issues. Also, I do wonder how they can be sure they have the right people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but methods for tracking who's doing what online are failable. (open connections and what not)

[Holy Knight]

I'm sure the FBI is being smarter about this than what's being shown so far. They don't have the right to barge into anyone's home nor do they have the manpower to arrest everyone who clicks on their trapped link. They would have to be dumb to overlook the prank capabilities of their scheme.

Then again, there are plenty of holes in this tactic. What about the 14 year old who is too curious? Jail time for him? There's always the accidental click to take into account, too, but that would depend on which sites the link is posted. If we're talking about a bait site, where you need to go to a certain depth into it before triggering the raid, then it has more validity.

However, is it just me or does this tactic mean the FBI is getting frustrated at not getting enough arrest, since this does seem to push the envelope.

[Old Ape Face]

However, is it just me or does this tactic mean the FBI is getting frustrated at not getting enough arrest, since this does seem to push the envelope.

Just like the incident where people are being handcuffed for not drinking? Usually free porn sites have poor validation entries to the sight, anyone can register in a fake age, or if you're like 4chan none at all. If it takes a challenge to get into the site most people wont go there.

[Fobb]

I don't really care what they(FBI) do as long as it does not violate the constitution. I feel that a country's constitution should be held as sacred and it is infinitely immoral, in my opinion, to violate it.

We're a pretty immoral country then.


This is retarded, utterly retarded. This falls under "shoot, ask questions later" type tactics.

[Old Ape Face]

We're a pretty immoral country then.


This is retarded, utterly retarded. This falls under "shoot, ask questions later" type tactics.

and later it's "Ignore the questions we can't afford to keep this man off the hook..."

[CrossboneGundam]

I wonder if there are any 'neighborhoods' the FBI considers 'off limits'...

I'm astonished by the number of posts in this thread that sound like they're into CP and interested in not getting caught looking for it.

[animeotaku99]

I just don't see this working out that well. This is just to get the public on their side regarding the whole 'witch hunt' against "pedophiles' . seriously, tempting someone to look at allegedly underage girls is a lot different from the idiots that stalk and rape preteen girls.

[Hara!]

Didn't you just basically admit you actively search out child pornography?

You don't get it. Some guy could start a thread called '4 year olds are generally bad people' and link to a file called '4yo_suck.RAR'

How would I know to assume it was porn given the thread?

[Justinian]

I understand what you mean Benard and completely agree. What I'm wondering is that...are they convicting these people as they would someone who actually comitted the crime. Because...if the link was fake, then they never actually viewed the pornography. And also, I think the RIAA does things like this by putting fake downloads and torrents up (I'm not 100% sure on this). I really can't rememebr what is was, but I know they are disregarding some privacy laws....and if they are, then their "evidence" isn't valid and can't be used for anything. Basically what I'm trying say is that, if they have to step on laws to obtain this evidence then the evidence is completely invalid and should be thrown out. If what the FBI is doing is completely legal and doesn't violate any Constitutional rights then let them have at these CP pigs.

[Old Ape Face]

I understand what you mean Benard and completely agree. What I'm wondering is that...are they convicting these people as they would someone who actually comitted the crime. Because...if the link was fake, then they never actually viewed the pornography.* And also, I think the RIAA does things like this by putting fake downloads and torrents up (I'm not 100% sure on this). **I really can't rememebr what is was, but I know they are disregarding some privacy laws....and if they are, then their "evidence" isn't valid and can't be used for anything. Basically what I'm trying say is that, if they have to step on laws to obtain this evidence then the evidence is completely invalid and should be thrown out. If what the FBI is doing is completely legal and doesn't violate any Constitutional rights then let them have at these CP pigs.

*I assume they are taking the Attempted action into consideration and not just the action itself. If you have the intent to view CP you are considered an offender and are liable for an arrest warrant.

**understand that just becuase you use the internet, anything you do is fair game to anyone, this includes Key loggers and hackers. By any means if the FBI are using hacking techniques to justify attempted CP there is no internet law against that policy.

I remember the FBI use to tap phone conversations at one time, but they removed this. However viewing a website is viewer's choice, the host has all the right to do with whatever the viewer does.

[Mr March]

Maybe the FBI are big fans of "To Catch A Predator" :)

[Caine]

^ RickRolls and To Catch a Predator makes me think of one of my life's goals: to formulate and execute a plan to RickRoll Chris Hansen without getting jailed for it.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I have to say this sounds pretty crazy to me, I'm not defending CP or pedophiles, but honestly this sounds like a pretty shady tactic (not that I'm suprised since under Bush the US has become a pretty shady place). Much like "to Catch a Predator" which is the biggest entrapment scheme I've ever seen. Especially given the fact that no law is broken. A legal aged girl (who is roleplaying as a minor) talks to a legal age guy, about having sex (legal the last time I checked). All it does is make overprotective parents think that the net is full of pedos who want to rape their kids. Most likely the same group that watched the Faux News "hackers on steroids" segment and decided that the net was full of credit card number stealing hackers.

Anyone on the net can say they are X years old, how do you know? I can say I'm a 45 year-old who lives in my parents basement, a 13 year old girl, a 25 year old man who fights crime in my spare time.

Like I said at the top, I'm not defending CP nor the people who look at that sort of thing, and it's highly unlikey I'd ever run across any of these "trap links" so it's not like it really matters to me personally. But this is pretty sad that the FBI is using BS tactics as tricking people with fake CP. What happends if you get arrested for clicking on a trap link and after they examine your PC for more CP, or some other illegal stuff they don't find anything? Do you get in trouble still? when you did nothing other then click on a hyperlink, after reading a false description.

[Justinian]

Yes, I don't think they really can do anything, (that would be completely legal and not violate and constituitional rights), other than just to bull **** you into thinking they can. I don't know what it is, but I'm finding this really hard to chew when they say they aren't violating anything. If I feel like it I'll actually go do some research on it and get some facts. But them getting a warrant to arrest you because you clicked on a link, seems like complete bull **** to me. If you never viewed it (because it was fake) you shouldn't get the same punishment as someone who actually comitted the crime.

[Tuna]

It's probably just a tactic to get them in the door, with hopes of finding more incriminating evidence after tearing your place apart. It's the same as when a highway patrolman pulls over a suspicious vehicle for having a "broken taillight", when he actually just wants to get a closer look at the driver and the car's interior...the key here being good ol' Probable Cause...

[Takumi Fujiwara]

It's more then likely exactly what your saying, but to me that doesn't make it any less of a shady tactic. lying to someone in order to try and catch them doing something their not supposed to is pretty low. Whatever happend to the days when people who broke the law went to jail, and not people who "were thinking about doing something illegal".

[Hara!]

Told you so. (http://anchan.an.ohost.de/b/src/120625231025.jpg)

almost nsfw.

[Rain]

:lol: at all the forum members who are against this ''hyperlink-enticement technique.''

Well, I guess I wasn't wrong when I assumed that a great number of AnimeNation's active (and inactive) population surfed child pornography. It's to be expected, anyway.

If they post links to lolicon i can't wait to see which member's of this site get raided.

Too many to count.

[IntenseHermit]

If (and I do mean if) the FBI are being responsible about this, then they are also taking note where the links are coming from. If it's not coming from a legit FBI referral, then it should be ignored because it's too easily abused.


Erm, maybe i'm missing something but isn't it really really easy to get around this FBI rickroll.

(1) You make a link of a child porn website and click on it. If its child porn you win.

(2) If the link you make and click on happens to be an FBI you get in NO trouble because you clicked on a link of the site that you made, rather than the original site itself. Therefore the refferal is not legitimate.

The whole point of the system is to make pedo's think twice about clicking on child porn sites as there's a risk of clicking onto a fed site.
However the Fed's use referalls to prevent the fact that some people might play pranks changing the url of the Fed site into a totaly innocent name (say msnbs.com/sports, or teletubies.com) and tricking someone into clicking the link and unfairly getting into trouble.

However this means that anytime someone wants to check child porn they can simply change the url of the child porn site before clicking it. If the website is a proper child porn site they are free to watch it. If it happens to be an FBI entrapment website, then they still do not get into trouble because they altered the URl making the refferal illegitimate.

Therefore a pedophile can access child porn a few metres from the FBI hoover headquarters without any fear of being done in by the FBI rickroll.

Obviously the Feds can not do anything about this. Their only other option would be to convict people who click on links with url's that have been altered by a prankster. Of course this would not be practical because even I could alter a url of a rickroll website to read www.cnn.com as a prank tricking an unsuspecting surfer. There's a word for this..conundrum.

conclusion: The bottom line is that if you change the url, you can surf porn without any fear that the FBI could convict you even if were unlucky enough to click on a fed site.
So yeah, the FBI need to get of their lazy posterior and come up with a more sensible solution to dealing with these pedo's.

[Old Ape Face]

:lol: at all the forum members who are against this ''hyperlink-enticement technique.''

Well, I guess I wasn't wrong when I assumed that a great number of AnimeNation's active (and inactive) population surfed child pornography. It's to be expected, anyway.

Too many to count.

I'll be Loling if Rain clicks it first... Becuase we all know she will :rolleyes:

Wana flame? we could all get banned if you want.

(User was Banned for this Post)

[Magami No ER]

:lol: at all the forum members who are against this ''hyperlink-enticement technique.''

Well, I guess I wasn't wrong when I assumed that a great number of AnimeNation's active (and inactive) population surfed child pornography. It's to be expected, anyway.


And, as I suspected, just as many members seem find the whole thing humorous as they do "unsurprising". That doesn't make them any more proactive in my book.
I'm indifferent to the whole matter only because I don't foresee myself in a situation where I may accidentally click on a link. A DUH.

[CrossboneGundam]

^ RickRolls and To Catch a Predator makes me think of one of my life's goals: to formulate and execute a plan to RickRoll Chris Hansen without getting jailed for it.

How would you get jailed?

What you'd want to do is set it up so that Chris Hansen thinks he's going to bust a pedo but it turns out it's fake and Rick Astley shows up and sings.

Also still inferior to the original Duckroll.

[Caine]

:lol: at all the forum members who are against this ''hyperlink-enticement technique.''

Well, I guess I wasn't wrong when I assumed that a great number of AnimeNation's active (and inactive) population surfed child pornography. It's to be expected, anyway.


Too many to count.

Umm, why is it wrong to oppose something that appears to be illegal (entrapment)?
There are laws that defend people from the police. Why is it worng to support them?
Why is it wrong to question whether or not this will actually work rather than just blow smoke and let the FBI pretend to make progress?

How would you get jailed?

What you'd want to do is set it up so that Chris Hansen thinks he's going to bust a pedo but it turns out it's fake and Rick Astley shows up and sings.

Right, but I'd need to see all applicable laws to make sure that they can't get me on any of them. Obviously any involving intent should be avoidable, but they'd need to be examined.


Also still inferior to the original Duckroll.

not if I get Rick Astley to show up in person an NBC airs it.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...what good use of the FBI's power.

because pedos are a threat to national security. bravo.

MEANWHILE... IN OTHER NEWS... they still havent found Biggie and Pac's killer.

[goddessofanime]

Welcome to Bush Country, where we'll watch everything you do in private, because y'all might be working for Al Quada after all and cant' have that.


This is just another illegal notch on the belt for the dictator Bush.

[Old Ape Face]

...what good use of the FBI's power.

because pedos are a threat to national security. bravo.

MEANWHILE... IN OTHER NEWS... they still havent found Biggie and Pac's killer.

Nor are they making any attempt on looking according to Chris Rock.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

I thought we call to an agreement that they killed eachother in a lover's quarrel?

[Ketaru]

This may or may not be related, but I feel like this has interesting opportunities to backfire. I think about how some campus security at some college raided a dorm because, on Facebook, they were announcing a beer party. Security went to the dorm only to find cake with the words "Beer" on them.

[Soluzar]

This may or may not be related, but I feel like this has interesting opportunities to backfire. I think about how some campus security at some college raided a dorm because, on Facebook, they were announcing a beer party. Security went to the dorm only to find cake with the words "Beer" on them.
In that case, you can be pretty sure the students in question did that with the intentions of fooling campus security. Sounds like an elaborate prank to me, anyway. If you do that to the FBI they charge you with interfering with their investigations and you get sent to jail.

[Trefellin]

they still havent found Biggie and Pac's killer.

It was Saddam Hussein. He killed both of them, get over it!

[Caster13]

If the FBI wants this to be a success, all they have to do is post stuff on 4chan. The site would be shut down in no time, and the world would instantly be made a better place.