"Don't Tase Me, Bro!" Take 2

[MaliceDR]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07254/816402-153.stm

Article posted Sept. 11.

Earlier this year, North Braddock, Penn. resident Shawn Hicks came back from a night out and plopped down on his own couch in his own home. Unfortunately, he failed to deactivate the silent alarm on his home security system. According to Hicks, two police officers responded to the alarm, entered his home, and woke him with a taser between the shoulder blades. When Hicks tried to explain that the whole thing was a misunderstanding, and that the officers were in his own home, they tasered him again. They next checked his wallet and ID, which confirmed his name and address. Then they tasered him again. The police then removed the taser pellets from Hicks' bloody back, refused to get him medical treatment, and arrested him for "being belligerent." They threw him in a holding cell until 5 am the next morning, when they released him without filing any charges.

November 3rd, investigation results. (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07307/830907-56.stm)

You know what happened next. The police department suspended the officers who tasered Hicks without pay while they conducted a thorough investigation. The chief then had them arrested for assaulting Hicks with their tasers, falsely arresting him, and violating his civil rights. The two officers were fired from the police force, then charged, convicted, and given lengthy prison terms.

Just kidding. They were cleared of any wrongdoing.

Bull****. Discuss.

Summary courtesy of http://reason.com/blog/show/123388.html

[animeotaku99]

wow... even I think they shouldn't have done what they did...

[Animematt55]

LoL.
"Ok, I guess you do live here....." *ZAP!*
Bet we are missing a huge part of the story though.

[animeotaku99]

LoL.
"Ok, I guess you do live here....." *ZAP!*
Bet we are missing a huge part of the story though.
I don't think ther is much to miss on this one... He was possibly slightly drunk when he came home and ativated his alarm and layed down on the couch.

[germanturkey]

bah, rubbish justice system.. he might as well sue for excessive force, and get millions from the county

[Leader Desslock]

Given that a taser is intended to safely immobilize someone who is clearly a threat to himself or to others, I'm curious how the police justified the use of the weapon on a sleeping target.

I mean, let's say that there HAD been a burglar. The police arrive. They see a person, evidently unconscious, on the sofa. They don't know who this person is - could be the burglar, could be the homeowner who's been knocked unconscious by the burglar, who's now fled. Either's a good possibility. Why would they assume that he's the burglar, to the point where they feel the need to tase him before he even regains full consciousness, much less constitutes an active threat?

I don't think we have all the info here, but even if we did, this sounds like a bad judgement call on the part of the responding officers. The only way I can see their actions being justified is if: a) the homeowner rose up in a drunken, semi-conscious rage and attacked the officers before he gained full consciousness, and b) the officers mistook this as a deliberate and conscious act. I can't say that sounds likely. They're cops. It's near Pittsburgh. You can't tell me they've never woken up a drunk before.

After that, I'm also curious why they would feel the need to tase someone after he's produced identification to prove he's the resident of the property in question. I mean, wouldn't that make an ordinary person think twice? Wouldn't a normal cop say, "We came into his house, we tased him, and it turns out he lives here. He appears to be angry and beligerent about the event. Should we try to de-escalate the situation, or should we just tase him again and put him in holding for the night?"

Again, I don't think we have the whole story, but I'm having a difficult time coing up with a reasonable series of events by which the officers actions would be considered "a justified use of the minimum force necessary to control the situation".

[Evil_Koala]

Lulz, IT'S CUZ HE WAS BLACK.

[animeotaku99]

Tazers are actually used to gain compliance as well also, But given the situation a "dry tase" would have been more appropriate. THat is when instead of firing the prongs into the suspect the merely make a touch contact, using it similar to a stun gun. That is the same way it was used in the first "DOn't Tase me Br" Incident"

[Animematt55]

**** happens. The media eats this type of story up. Of course, you never hear the story about when the cops save peoples lives, or anything. Just a small incident, that is over escalated by the media

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...what can i say. we live in a tazer-happy society, since guns "kill".

[Animematt55]

...what can i say. we live in a tazer-happy society, since guns "kill".

yeah, but still. Nothing says "F you" like buckshot to the knee.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

yeah, but still. Nothing says "F you" like buckshot to the knee.

...that is, if one is actually dextrous enough aim TO the knee. these days, it's more of a "shoot to kill" strategy. and it really doesn't help at all if you're black.

[animeotaku99]

...that is, if one is actually dextrous enough aim TO the knee. these days, it's more of a "shoot to kill" strategy. and it really doesn't help at all if you're black.

When police shot someone they are looking to kill them at best, THere are cases in the past where officers have shot to wound and the suspect keeps coming and in some cases kills an officer

[Fobb]

I predicted the conservative responses in this thread, straight off.

"media hype" ftw

[dothacker5]

**** happens. The media eats this type of story up. Of course, you never hear the story about when the cops save peoples lives, or anything. Just a small incident, that is over escalated by the media No in my state they always have stories on people getting saved so I don't know what your talking about. I mean come on Matt even "Kalifornia" doesn't pull that ****.

[earsofdoom]

Funny.... wasn't to long ago a taser death happened in canada (we arn't quite as "Taz happy" as the us) honestly.... we just need to get rid of the damn things becouse police are abuseing the hell out of them without any diciplinary action being taken. "hey theres some guy passed out on the couch.... should we put cuffs on him?" "nah thats to dangerous, better taz him to be safe."

[The Million Dollar Prons]

You think this is shocking (pun)? In some european country (Sweden? Sic) they use flame throwers as part of riot control.

FLAME. THOWERS.

Don't HOLYT **** I'M ON FIRE bro.

[KatayokuのTenshi]

and woke him with a taser between the shoulder blades.

ZZZZZZZZZZ *scratches arse*
He's going for a weapon! Shoot him.
ZZZZZ OH MY ****ING GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
He's being belligerent, get him again.

They kind started out on the wrong foot didn't they?

[Alice Catherine]

**** happens. The media eats this type of story up. Of course, you never hear the story about when the cops save peoples lives, or anything. Just a small incident, that is over escalated by the media

...which is why in Philadelphia we had to hear about Chuck Cassidy's death for 4 days and all he really was doing was walking into a Dunkin Donuts. No struggle or holdup or nothing, IIRC. Just shot.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...which is why in Philadelphia we had to hear about Chuck Cassidy's death for 4 days and all he really was doing was walking into a Dunkin Donuts. No struggle or holdup or nothing, IIRC. Just shot.

...Guns don't kill people. but walking into Dunkin Donuts will.

[Animematt55]

Funny.... wasn't to long ago a taser death happened in canada (we arn't quite as "Taz happy" as the us) honestly.... we just need to get rid of the damn things becouse police are abuseing the hell out of them without any diciplinary action being taken. "hey theres some guy passed out on the couch.... should we put cuffs on him?" "nah thats to dangerous, better taz him to be safe."

Right, then they can just shoot the perps with bullets instead.
Tasers save lives. The media just likes to jump all over the 'OMG dey killed da guy!!1"
Plus, there is a huge chunk missing from this story. My bet is he ws drunk off his ***, and tried to take swings at the police.

[Soluzar]

Plus, there is a huge chunk missing from this story. My bet is he ws drunk off his ***, and tried to take swings at the police.
In your experience, roughly what percentage of people do that while asleep?

[Animematt55]

In your experience, roughly what percentage of people do that while asleep?

A good number of people do become very belligerent when drunk. He set off his alarm, the police came and he probably got fighty, so they tased him.
After the fact he showed his ID is a bit excessive, but I am doubting that happened.

Oh yes, and the officers were not cleared of all charges. The investigation is still going on. It is up to the court to decide it.

[Soluzar]

A good number of people do become very belligerent when drunk. He set off his alarm, the police came and he probably got fighty, so they tased him.
According to the article, they tased him while he was asleep. What valid reason do you have to doubt that version of events? I'm going on the only source of information I have, here.

[Animematt55]

According to the article, they tased him while he was asleep. What valid reason do you have to doubt that version of events? I'm going on the only source of information I have, here.

Well, I am willing to bet he wasn't asleep. More like PASSED OUT. They gave him numerous orders, he didn't comply, so they tazered him. Not exactly what I would do though.
Like I said, if he is telling the truth, the court may find the officers wrong.

[Leader Desslock]

Well, I am willing to bet he wasn't asleep. More like PASSED OUT. They gave him numerous orders, he didn't comply, so they tazered him.
Yeah, but... we're talking about a Pittsburgh suburb, here. As I said before, is it really plausible to think that these officers had never awoken a drunk before, that they didn't know how to handle the situation?

Did they have any evidence to suggest that the incapacitated individual on the sofa was a burglar and an immediate threat, as opposed to:
1) Someone who had been attacked by an actual burglar, maybe with a stab wound to the abdomen, currently bleeding into the sofa where they couldn't see?
2) Someone who had stumbled into the wrong house in a drunken haze
3) A potential diabetic whose blood sugar had dropped to the point of hypoglycemic shock
4) Someone who came home too drunk to turn off their alarm

... I mean, there are any number of possible explanations for what the responding officers stumbled across. Wouldn't it be normal procedure for the police to determine the situation before applying force? And okay, if the person also happened to be an immediate thread to himself and others, maybe they err on the side of caution, but... they shot him in the back. How much of a threat could he have posed?

Sure, it might be safer for the officers if they were allowed to tase everyone on the scene, then sort things out once everyone is safely incapacitated, but police aren't allowed to do that. It's part of an officer's job to evaluate the situation when responding. Given what little we know, I can't come up with a sensible narrative to suggest that they did so.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Yeah, but... we're talking about a Pittsburgh suburb, here.

Oh, he was a Steelers fan. I am 1001% for tazeing unconscious or any other state of being Steelers fans.

[Animematt55]

stuff

yes, that is why I said it was handled wrong. yet again, i think there is a large chunk of the story missing.

[animeotaku99]

Funny.... wasn't to long ago a taser death happened in canada (we arn't quite as "Taz happy" as the us) honestly.... we just need to get rid of the damn things becouse police are abuseing the hell out of them without any diciplinary action being taken. "hey theres some guy passed out on the couch.... should we put cuffs on him?" "nah thats to dangerous, better taz him to be safe."

WRONG! Tasers save lifes and prevent injury and danger t the officer. It is very rare that someone dies from just the taser, it is usually heavy drug use or alcohol that is the cause. I still think they should have just dry tasered him instead

[GreatNekoKoneko]

WRONG! Tasers save lifes and prevent injury and danger t the officer. It is very rare that someone dies from just the taser, it is usually heavy drug use or alcohol that is the cause. I still think they should have just dry tasered him instead

...look. everybody ISN'T a junkie NOR are they ALKYS, hence, the logic that he died because of drugs and alcohol is unfounded, if not, stupid.

did you even consider the fact that the OLDER man had a weak heart? 50000 volts isn't exactly a small jolt. even defibrilators (which ironically STOP the heart , so the body can get back to working the muscles by itself), don't have that high of a voltage.

the point is, before you start to taze someone, make sure you consider all the OTHER alternatives before coming to a "shocking" conclusion. no pun intended.

whatever happened to a good 'ol tackle and smack in the head? geez. we live in a PC society.

[animeotaku99]

But it is LOW Amps... or was it Watts? Use of a taser is safer then having to physically restrain a suspect. Yet age can play a factor but an "old" person can still fight back and resist orders just like a young'en

and I have already stated that I did not believe they had to use the taser the way that they did

[Kevin]

ZOMG, look, a dead horse! BEAT IT!!!!1!!

[Animematt55]

whatever happened to a good 'ol tackle and smack in the head? geez. we live in a PC society.

That puts innocent people, and officers in danger. If you can give him a little zap to drop him, you actually save lives. A lot of situations would of required the officers to actually shoot the suspect instead of using a tazer.
All this whining about the taser is really unfounded. If someone dies from it, oh well, the hippies love to whine about that. But you know what? It is great insentive to follow the law.
The hippies would be whining just as much if they would of smacked him in the head.