School Shootings: Coming to a Country Near You!

[kenshinbebop]

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/nine-die-in-school-shooting-in-finland/20071107111509990001

School Shootings, not just for the United States anymore.

[Animematt55]

>.> just more fodder for the left to go "lol tha gunz did it, not the man!"

[Leader Desslock]

>.> Just more fodder for the right to go "Guns don't kill people, but pushing cows off cliffs can. Does that mean we should all be vegetarians? I think NOT."

[Alice Catherine]

Meh. There seems to be a pattern.


There was a bomb threat at the high school where I am last Thursday.

Followed my a fire at my school the next day...


...followed by a bomb threat at my school yesterday. Is there something going on that people aren't telling me?

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... it means that you have to tell Kelton to stay by your side. you know, as protection.

MAN UP GIRL! plus, better he be shot than you. god knows what AN will be without AC...

[VidelCoolGirl]

Well, thank God I go to a LIBERAL ARTS college. People here would rather shoot people with like...book quotes and lettuce.

[Alice Catherine]

... it means that you have to tell Kelton to stay by your side. you know, as protection.

MAN UP GIRL! plus, better he be shot than you. god knows what AN will be without AC...

We all kept each other warm in a huddle yesterday. It was freezing. Poor Alex in his short sleeves and shorts was left out, though.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Well, thank God I go to a LIBERAL ARTS college. People here would rather shoot people with like...book quotes and lettuce.

..."now, now. put the lettuce down. don't let me use this book quote on you now."

DON'T LETTUCE ME BRO!

oh god. i need sleep.

[Vaikyuko]

What I found incredibly amusing was how he posted up YouTube videos with both his school name and the word "massacre" in it.

With 400+ students, shouldn't the school have caught this and done something about it? He was posing and in one case IIRC shooting the handgun in the films.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Well, thank God I go to a LIBERAL ARTS college. People here would rather shoot people with like...book quotes and lettuce.

and STD's. They are liberal with everything.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

and STD's. They are liberal with everything.

...OH SNAP!

/double rimshot. no pun intended.

[Animematt55]

Well, thank God I go to a LIBERAL ARTS college. People here would rather shoot people with like...book quotes and lettuce.

I knew a girl that went to a women's liberal arts college that threw sex parties for the whole school. Handed out cheap condoms, and you did it right on the floor.
made me lose nearly all the respect I had for women.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

I knew a girl that went to a women's liberal arts college that threw sex parties for the whole school. Handed out cheap condoms, and you did it right on the floor.
made me lose nearly all the respect I had for women.

...that, or never really liked women in the first place.

but yeah. that is skankalicious.

[Rican X7]

My boy's girl goes to a LIberal Arts college, we went to visit her on halloween and WOW thats all im going to say!

[Animematt55]

...that, or never really liked women in the first place.


touche' =P

anyways, on topic. As most people know, I do not blame gun ownership, nor guns for this. This guy used a the second smallest caliber round available, a .22. These are easy to get in most any country, even the ones that ban most guns, as a varmit round (which is what it is). If he wanted to get one illegally, he probably could of easily anyways.

I am just glad my high school had an armed police officer on the grounds at most times. Although he never needed to do much, outside bust some pothead, or break up a fight.

[Tenou]

I knew a girl that went to a women's liberal arts college that threw sex parties for the whole school. Handed out cheap condoms, and you did it right on the floor.
made me lose nearly all the respect I had for women.

Stop your lying, darling. You know you never had respect for women to begin with.

... Maybe the lemming thing isn't a myth. Maybe they're like cows, and run themselves off cliffs when there's an over population.
So everyone has mad cow because the earth is overpopulated.
Hey, I know when I'm in an over crowded place I feel like killing those around me. Then when I'm out of it, I'm depressed.

Either way, it must be hard, in a place with low crime to begin with. For something this massive to happen out of the blue.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I knew a girl that went to a women's liberal arts college that threw sex parties for the whole school. Handed out cheap condoms, and you did it right on the floor.
made me lose nearly all the respect I had for women.

Right, because the men that had sex with them are totally justified, and not just as bad as the women. Seriously, agree with Tenou, you just hate women in general.

[Animematt55]

Right, because the men that had sex with them are totally justified, and not just as bad as the women. Seriously, agree with Tenou, you just hate women in general.

I didnt mean it like that...
It was a womens college...they are the ones that organized it.
>.> man some people are touchy.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I didnt mean it like that...
It was a womens college...they are the ones that organized it.
>.> man some people are touchy.
When someone insults a gender up front like that -which would make me touchy, yes- gotta need to stand up for it. Sorry, but its true. (At least I know Tenou agrees).

EDIT: Wait...why condoms if its a women's college? I mean, for that, they should have had men there, otherwise you would just need a lot of buckets and mops, not condoms.

[Suiko Eiji]

School Shootings, not just for the United States anymore.

Never have been a unique to the US. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Other_countries) Lest we not forget Canada, too. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Canada)

Granted, the US will have a higher rate of them because we have more liberal (read: freedom-oriented) concerns to gun politics, comparatively to some of the other places listed in the Wikipedia links I posted above. Strikingly, Switzerland is absent from the list of shootings, though many Americans, including many gun owning Americans, would be amazed at the proliferation amongst the Swiss.

Guess that people like me, Animematt, and this kid in his YouTube video said are right: people do f---ed up stuff irregardless.

[Kyuu Dan]

... it means that you have to tell Kelton to stay by your side. you know, as protection.

MAN UP GIRL! plus, better he be shot than you. god knows what AN will be without AC...

What's this about Kelton? Last time I checked he went to guidance along with unspeakable and myself. That would be some miracle getting him to stand in front of Alice..

*At Alice* Last time I checked, when we were stuck outside, you were the one following Alex and Nick around. Alex was surrounded by people. You clung to Nick. I was happily mingling and laughing at the preps with their hands down their pants, and occasionally running over to the seventh graders who came from Chorus/Music.(I wonder what they were doing).

If you're going to make up stories, make sure I'm dead so I can't contradict you.
And just curious, how are bomb threats related to shootings (besides the fact that you stand outside until the matter is resolved)?

Anyways... I will now tape my mouth shut on that note.

Finland, eh? Nothing in Asia or Aussie yet?

14-year-old... shoots people... for teasing. Sounds like home to me.

[Animematt55]

^ I have read some stats on Australia. Their crime rate has been steadily climbing the past few years.
Lost time I read, break in's had RISEN by 300%

[Kyuu Dan]

^ I have read some stats on Australia. Their crime rate has been steadily climbing the past few years.
Lost time I read, break in's had RISEN by 300%

Not Aussie!:crybaby:

Any chance you have a link/keyword-to-search to find that? ((In case you're curious, read title))

[{NG}Fidel]

Are we hating on women?
Cause I would love to throw some words around.
Meh actually no, its a really boring subject hating on either gender cause...
ITS RETARDED.
now back to the school shooting.
The video really was a joke and I doubt any school could have caught that fast enough.
that is asking a little much.

[Animematt55]

I had some of the links on my laptop, which I recently formatted. I cannot find them at the moment.
But shootings are not an American problem. There is crime in every country. In America though, it is probably a bit easier to get a hold of a black market firearm. Seeing as we are right next to Mexico, and across the ocean from China and such. All major illegal sellers of arms.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Guh, I smell a locking soon.

[Old Ape Face]

... it means that you have to tell Kelton to stay by your side. you know, as protection.

MAN UP GIRL! plus, better he be shot than you. god knows what AN will be without AC...

Starts gathering the cult to preach "Thank God for destroying the wicked one." :P

[Tenou]

When someone insults a gender up front like that -which would make me touchy, yes- gotta need to stand up for it. Sorry, but its true. (At least I know Tenou agrees).

EDIT: Wait...why condoms if its a women's college? I mean, for that, they should have had men there, otherwise you would just need a lot of buckets and mops, not condoms.
Videl, my love, I will always agree with what ever you say.
as long as you become my snuggle bunny
And don't bother applying logic to Matt's stories. It will only give you a headache.

Never have been a unique to the US. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Other_countries) Lest we not forget Canada, too. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Canada)

You weren't supposed to bring that up, mate.
There is, however a distinction (not that it's better or worse, or in any way excuses what was done) between the 'school' shootings in Canada and those in the US. They took place at colleges, not in public schools (and you're probably thinking, well, what kind of difference does that make. But categorizing it with school shootings ignores the reasoning behind why it was done, the problems within Quebec and the rest of Canada which should never be forgotten). With registered firearms (government had a funny idea to spend millions on gun registration because, as you know, registered guns don't kill people, illegal guns from the US kill people).


Granted, the US will have a higher rate of them because we have more liberal (read: freedom-oriented) concerns to gun politics, comparatively to some of the other places listed in the Wikipedia links I posted above. Strikingly, Switzerland is absent from the list of shootings, though many Americans, including many gun owning Americans, would be amazed at the proliferation amongst the Swiss.

Guess that people like me, Animematt, and this kid in his YouTube video said are right: people do f---ed up stuff irregardless.
So nothing to do with Americanization of the world at large?

In before lock?

[Evil_Koala]

I don't see how anyone could hate wimmenz. =/


SCHOOL SHOOTINGS...IN MY FINLAND? No, don't think so. Finland has the highest suicide rate, not homicide. =/ I SMELL A CONSPIRACY. But regardless, I do believe this thread needs moar cowbell.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Videl, my love, I will always agree with what ever you say.
as long as you become my snuggle bunny
And don't bother applying logic to Matt's stories. It will only give you a headache.


:lol: I totally didn't catch that text until I saw that post about the third time around. Awesome. Of course Tenou, anything for you. :naughty:

And I mean, cmon, we all know, "Guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do."

[HSaabedra]

"Guns don't kill people, lazy white people with no drive do."

Too easy.

In any case, they're blaming this kid's taste in music, when it isn't even all that violent to begin with.

I could understand if the kid listened to bands like Burzum, Emperor, Mayhem or the like which are known for the outward hatred of all races and cultures not of Nordic descent, but this kid listened to the most derivative crap that wasn't even misanthropic in the least. This kid just had a few screws loose and lost it.

We all know Matt fails at trolling so the woman bashing needs to stop, otherwise I break out my catgirl thread. I know Videl doesn't want that ;)

[VidelCoolGirl]

"Guns don't kill people, lazy white people with no drive do."

Too easy.

In any case, they're blaming this kid's taste in music, when it isn't even all that violent to begin with.

I could understand if the kid listened to bands like Burzum, Emperor, Mayhem or the like which are known for the outward hatred of all races and cultures not of Nordic descent, but this kid listened to the most derivative crap that wasn't even misanthropic in the least. This kid just had a few screws loose and lost it.

We all know Matt fails at trolling so the woman bashing needs to stop, otherwise I break out my catgirl thread. I know Videl doesn't want that ;)

I hate it when music is blamed. If music made people go nuts, there would be no white people alive to produce it. Blaming music just takes concentration from the real problem, which is the kid and whatever living situation they're going though.

NO CATGIRL THREAD.....NOOOOO. BAD END.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...videl, can we at least HAVE a Catgirl Thread Day? you know, like, every Caturday or something?

i'm in dire need of some catgirl thread.

oh, and about the shooting. uh. hmmm. tis sad indeed.

[VidelCoolGirl]

...videl, can we at least HAVE a Catgirl Thread Day? you know, like, every Caturday or something?

i'm in dire need of some catgirl thread.

oh, and about the shooting. uh. hmmm. tis sad indeed.

You want Caturday, go back to 4Chan...or wherever that day comes from.

Seriously though, school anything sucks. Violence related at least. As an RA, I have to deal with it more than you think. When there was a sexual assualt on campus, that sucked for everyone.

[tenshi_a]

oh, and about the shooting. uh. hmmm. tis sad indeed.

Note: first person on this thread to say anything like this.

Normally when there's a thread about a shooting in a school, kids dead, people are all *OMG!* followed by "oh I feel for the families of the victims" condolences condolences etc, but no, because it's in Finland, everyone skipped right ahead to *ooh good old school massacre, let's bring out our old debates as normal*...

EDIT: Wait...why condoms if its a women's college? I mean, for that, they should have had men there, otherwise you would just need a lot of buckets and mops, not condoms.

This made me laugh btw. This is a college, not a prison, people are free to go outside and find people of the opposite gender to have sex with. That's what they told me at the college I lived in. But why bother? God I miss that place. Buckets and mops. :lol:

[Alice Catherine]

What's this about Kelton? Last time I checked he went to guidance along with unspeakable and myself. That would be some miracle getting him to stand in front of Alice..

*At Alice* Last time I checked, when we were stuck outside, you were the one following Alex and Nick around. Alex was surrounded by people. You clung to Nick. I was happily mingling and laughing at the preps with their hands down their pants, and occasionally running over to the seventh graders who came from Chorus/Music.(I wonder what they were doing).

If you're going to make up stories, make sure I'm dead so I can't contradict you.
And just curious, how are bomb threats related to shootings (besides the fact that you stand outside until the matter is resolved)?

Anyways... I will now tape my mouth shut on that note.



Yeah. That was at the one from 2 days ago.

Not the first one where we had to stand outside. I hung out with pretty much everyone.

You're just mad because everyone thinks you're weirder than me and no one likes your acting skills and you GIGGLE TOO ****ING MUCH.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Yeah. That was at the one from 2 days ago.

Not the first one where we had to stand outside. I hung out with pretty much everyone.

You're just mad because everyone thinks you're weirder than me and no one likes your acting skills and you GIGGLE TOO ****ING MUCH.

...wow. i smell catfight - hence, the need to bring Cat Girl Thread back.

@tenshi: hehe. you'd think that someone would have already said that after a few pages.

[Suiko Eiji]

You weren't supposed to bring that up, mate.
There is, however a distinction (not that it's better or worse, or in any way excuses what was done) between the 'school' shootings in Canada and those in the US. They took place at colleges, not in public schools (and you're probably thinking, well, what kind of difference does that make. But categorizing it with school shootings ignores the reasoning behind why it was done, the problems within Quebec and the rest of Canada which should never be forgotten). With registered firearms (government had a funny idea to spend millions on gun registration because, as you know, registered guns don't kill people, illegal guns from the US kill people).

Afraid I don't follow you; I don't see how college/secondary schools differ, in this case, from high schools or Gymnasium types of establishments in the United States and Germany and Finland respectively. Internal problems in Quebec may apply to those specific instances though I only see mention of it influencing the Ecole Polytechnique Incident; it however, does not address shootings in Ontario, Alberta, or other provinces.

Perhaps there's more I'm missing, which could entirely be true. Usually when I hear about these things happening, I tend to zone out.

So nothing to do with Americanization of the world at large?


I know that through our media, which is exported the world over, there's an aboundance of violence and 'gun glorification'; however, I cannot really find a link to these instances being the primary causes of these incidents. Reading through the lists of shootings, all of the perpetrators are people with poor family lives, poor economic conditions, or otherwise conditions of abuse and poor mental health. That's where I see the problem.

[UberDirector]

GTA IV made him do it <.<

[Fobb]

lol tha gunz did it, not the man!

[GreatNekoKoneko]

GTA IV made him do it <.<

...it was ManBearPig who made him do it.

[Old Ape Face]

...it was ManBearPig who made him do it.

seconded...

[Mr.Crazy]

Ahhh the social outcast, the not such a "normal" person, the bottom feeder and the common loser.

Bullying is a normal fact of life, it has been around since the beggining of social communitys. When a more superior and well affiliated person see's a more different or not "normal" person, that person will fear him and always try to alienate him. Society says that this is "normal" and you should follow it or else you won't be "normal", but what is "normal"?

There will always be bullying and it cannot be stopped, but such intensive lonelyness that these outcasts have to go through is probably utterly painful. There will always be the outcasts and when they realize that they cannot fit in society, they will quickly look for a way out, the door of death will look more accesible to them and with his current social status his hate and lust for revenge will be his key to the door of which we all cannot judge.

[Old Ape Face]

Ahhh the social outcast, the not such a "normal" person, the bottom feeder and the common loser.

Bullying is a normal fact of life, it has been around since the beggining of social communitys. When a more superior and well affiliated person see's a more different or not "normal" person, that person will fear him and always try to alienate him. Society says that this is "normal" and you should follow it or else you won't be "normal", but what is "normal"?

There will always be bullying and it cannot be stopped, but such intensive lonelyness that these outcasts have to go through is probably utterly painful. There will always be the outcasts and when they realize that they cannot fit in society, they will quickly look for a way out, the door of death will look more accesible to them and with his current social status his hate and lust for revenge will be his key to the door of which we all cannot judge.

This Idea of "Normality" does not sit right with me. I can say I'm one of these social outcasts from the "normal" people, who believe that the slightest ignorant comment, multiplied throughout various subjects time and time again, is liable and is mandatory for ridicule. It might be my fault for my ignorance, but to dumb down and kick the guy who has no idea what he's talking about, nor will he ever learn from this ridicule, will only become more dumb under his own misguided attempts to sound as if he knows what he's talking about.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I hate it when music is blamed.

I disagree, when I hear hip-hop/gansta rap rattle my windows at 3 in the morning it makes me want to pull out a gun and go to town.

[Leader Desslock]

This Idea of "Normality" does not sit right with me.
It usually doesn't, with outcasts. That's sort of the point. If an outcast is comfortable with the concept of 'normal' but chooses not to fit in anyway, he's not really cast out, is he? It's the ones who aren't normal that think it's not fair that the people who are normal get treated differently - those are the outcasts.

[Mr.Crazy]

This Idea of "Normality" does not sit right with me. I can say I'm one of these social outcasts from the "normal" people, who believe that the slightest ignorant comment, multiplied throughout various subjects time and time again, is liable and is mandatory for ridicule. It might be my fault for my ignorance, but to dumb down and kick the guy who has no idea what he's talking about, nor will he ever learn from this ridicule, will only become more dumb under his own misguided attempts to sound as if he knows what he's talking about.

The world isn't normal, and i believe i know what i am talking about. Maybe a review of my comment will make it more clear for you, observe the reactions of the outcast and then try to understand.

...Your not that far down the food chain, that is why you do not understand.

[JFaulkner]

Just strap all the pupils with bombs controlled by the headmaster. As soon as there is a sign of a psychotic school shooting, then BAM, problem solved (with a bit of collateral damage maybe).

[JFaulkner]

The world isn't normal, and i believe i know what i am talking about.
This statement is, like, just a tiny bit generic.

[Leader Desslock]

^ I actually don't think he knows what he's talking about. In order to determine whether this world is in fact 'normal', you'd need to compare it to a fair sampling of other worlds. I don't think he's done this yet, so I took his statement to be mere conjecture.

[JFaulkner]

^ Mr. Crazy needs a control, but don't count him out yet: we may not be far enough down the food chain to understand.

[Animematt55]

So nothing to do with Americanization of the world at large?

In before lock?

Right...blame America >.>
You know what is funny though? Most guns are not made in America. In fact, some of the best gun makers are in GERMANY, or other European countries.
Also, most illegal guns in America come from illegal gun trades through South America, or from street punks that stole some .22 from a store.
Fact: Most shootings in America are done with .22, and not that 'assault weapons' the media want you to believe. In fact, there has never been a shooting with an assault rifle since the Hollywood bank robbery. Which were bought illegally, and converted illegally. Not to mention their body armor was also illegally bought, and made themselves.
This shooting was committed with a .22, and from what I hear he was a good shot.
In Finland, it is difficult to get a permit to even own a gun, and from what I have read, you have to be an alright shot along with everything else.

I really don't see how American culture has affected this school shooting at all.

[Mr.Crazy]

^ I actually don't think he knows what he's talking about. In order to determine whether this world is in fact 'normal', you'd need to compare it to a fair sampling of other worlds. I don't think he's done this yet, so I took his statement to be mere conjecture.

That is true, there would have to be a comparison of other worlds in order to judge this world. Other people do see this world as normal, society wants to shape this world into a normal world.

[Old Ape Face]

The world isn't normal, and i believe i know what i am talking about. Maybe a review of my comment will make it more clear for you, observe the reactions of the outcast and then try to understand.

...Your not that far down the food chain, that is why you do not understand.

I was in fact talking about myself as the outcast, considering my reputation for bringing up ignorant and ideological explanations for things I don't understand... quiet frequently too, and because of these actions I have been ridiculed quiet frequently.

In my opinion there is no such thing as normal regarding human nature, people will say what they feel, but the urge to strike someone down in a negative way against ones point of view is something that we all share. This also takes in the fact that people are afraid of one another, either they want to run away and hide, or they want to obliterate their competition, and in some cases; like this for example both are subjected to happen.

[Kyuu Dan]

Yeah. That was at the one from 2 days ago.

Not the first one where we had to stand outside. I hung out with pretty much everyone.

You're just mad because everyone thinks you're weirder than me and no one likes your acting skills and you GIGGLE TOO ****ING MUCH.

Sure, whatever you say, but I'm not the only one who noticed.

And no... really? I can't act. I'm a spur of the moment kind of person, I joined since I thought I'd get to have fun. My acting is everyday acting like I'm happy and giddy instead of the raging ball of anger/frozen cube of depression that I usually am.

Notice you're the only one taking shots. I could say any number of things, but I'm not going to since I still consider you a friend even if you press every button I've got several times. ((Just pushed the Talk Show Drama button))

Although, in all honesty, if someone said you were weirder I would feel deeply insulted. <_<

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to my own. Let's let it go, shall we?

@GNK, not cats, this one's gone to the dogs.

[Alice Catherine]

Then let it go yourself. I still want to be friends with you but when you take cheap shots like moving to a different table it pisses me off.


*breath* Anyway...


So Jessie told me we were on lockdown yesterday, 4th period. I had to take care of Felix so I made up some story that I was sick.
His boyfriend beat him because he cheated...

[JFaulkner]

In my opinion there is no such thing as normal regarding human nature, people will say what they feel, but the urge to strike someone down in a negative way against ones point of view is something that we all share. This also takes in the fact that people are afraid of one another, either they want to run away and hide, or they want to obliterate their competition, and in some cases; like this for example both are subjected to happen.
There's a negative side to humans. Thanks, I didn't know that.

[kenshinbebop]

Glad I started this topic. :rolleyes:

Thought it'd actually be a thread that wouldn't spark debate, but guess not.

[Leader Desslock]

Silly rabbit. This is AN.

[Alice Catherine]

^Oh God.

I have to. I really do. *hears Kelton's voice pounding in head*


CANDY FOR BREAKFAST?! THIS IS MADNESS!
NO
THIS
IS
RECCES!

[Rurouni Saiyan]

I disagree, when I hear hip-hop/gansta rap rattle rusty Cadillac trunks at 3 in the morning it makes me want to pull out a gun and go to town.

Fixed.

I take it you don't live in the boondocks. Boondock denizen for 18 years and having to deal with that crud irritates me to no end.

[Thousand Eyes]

So, bullying turns a kid into a misanthrope that ends up shooting his school. That's the typical behaviour of what we see externally. I was reading his Wiki.

[Tenou]

:lol: I totally didn't catch that text until I saw that post about the third time around. Awesome. Of course Tenou, anything for you. :naughty:

And I mean, cmon, we all know, "Guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do."I'm a sly kind of foxy lady.

Old Canadian proverb: 'feathers don't kill people, people kill people.'

Afraid I don't follow you; I don't see how college/secondary schools differ, in this case, from high schools or Gymnasium types of establishments in the United States and Germany and Finland respectively. Internal problems in Quebec may apply to those specific instances though I only see mention of it influencing the Ecole Polytechnique Incident; it however, does not address shootings in Ontario, Alberta, or other provinces.


Sorry, dear, I meant to explain, but got lost in a tangent and forgot. What I was going to get into was that these 'school shootings' are being deemed school shootings regardless of any other factor involved. Because they are all deemed the same then the specifics are the same, and nothing changes, or the wrong things change.
The École Polytechnique tragedy is now referred to as a school shooting, however, it is anachronistic. Now calling it a school shooting means a reinterpretation of the reasoning behind it, when it wasn't angry music and video games, old fashioned misogyny. However, by lumping it in with 'school shootings, it is assumed that some depressed gothic kid did it because they played too many video games (because, and it saddens me, a lot of people don't seem to remember that the circumstances surrounding École Polytechnique and Dawson College aren't the same, with the exception that yes, they were both in schools and both in Quebec).
And Kimveer Gill, the shooter in the Dawson College tragedy wasn't some poor bullied child who choose to fight against his abusers. He seemed, to all intents and purposes to be socially integrated.
The shooting at Concordia, the shooter wasn't even a student, it was a professor bent on revenge.
The latest one... inner city school in Toronto. Has absolutely nothing in common with the other shootings except for the place. Hell, it may or may not have been an accident (I don't remember the specifics because there were so many stories going around, I don't remember which ones were true).
Perhaps there's more I'm missing, which could entirely be true. Usually when I hear about these things happening, I tend to zone out.

I know that through our media, which is exported the world over, there's an aboundance of violence and 'gun glorification'; however, I cannot really find a link to these instances being the primary causes of these incidents. Reading through the lists of shootings, all of the perpetrators are people with poor family lives, poor economic conditions, or otherwise conditions of abuse and poor mental health. That's where I see the problem.
You're closer, but you're still seeing 'school shooting' as one kind, when they're not. That's why it's dangerous to lump all of these tragedies together (I single out Canada because I know much more about them and can say with certainty that many of them do not fall under the category of what many consider the key elements of a school shooting, the perpetrator, the justification). Do I make any sort of sense?

Right...blame America >.>
You know what is funny though? Most guns are not made in America. In fact, some of the best gun makers are in GERMANY, or other European countries.
Also, most illegal guns in America come from illegal gun trades through South America, or from street punks that stole some .22 from a store.
Fact: Most shootings in America are done with .22, and not that 'assault weapons' the media want you to believe. In fact, there has never been a shooting with an assault rifle since the Hollywood bank robbery. Which were bought illegally, and converted illegally. Not to mention their body armor was also illegally bought, and made themselves.
This shooting was committed with a .22, and from what I hear he was a good shot.
In Finland, it is difficult to get a permit to even own a gun, and from what I have read, you have to be an alright shot along with everything else.

I really don't see how American culture has affected this school shooting at all.

Matt, dearest, a gun is a gun, no matter how you choose to idolise and worship it. 'Assault weapon' or .22, its soul reason for being is to kill (and don't say 'oh, I just like have them because my penis is so small I need to compensate. Guns weren't created to give you self esteem, they were created to kill the enemy. And that's why newer, better guns are being created. Not to give more men more self esteem, but because better ways are needed to kill the enemy).
Also, there are mountains of research and real life scenarios showing that registration... it doesn't do a whole lot.
But gun ratios... that's a contributor. And if more people are buying guns to become more American, then yes, shootings are going to follow.
And finally, Americanization is not blaming America. Do you know what Americanization is? Americanization is, yes, to an extent, perpetrated by the US, but, in many ways, the US has no control over who chooses to appropriate the culture for what ever reason.

[Animematt55]

Matt, dearest, a gun is a gun, no matter how you choose to idolise and worship it. 'Assault weapon' or .22, its soul reason for being is to kill (and don't say 'oh, I just like have them because my penis is so small I need to compensate. Guns weren't created to give you self esteem, they were created to kill the enemy. And that's why newer, better guns are being created. Not to give more men more self esteem, but because better ways are needed to kill the enemy)

AH the old "gun owners are just compensated for a small penis" arguement. How typical. I suppose you ignore the statistics of guns STOPPING crime, right? Maybe that Vtech was a "gun free zone' and thus made it so the Cho was guaranteed no opposition?
How about in '02 at the University of Virginia, where a shooter was stopped by two armed students? Lives were saved there.
or how LA has had a 1300% increase in murders since they have implimented gun control? Or how about how all the "murder capitals" Have strict gun control, and do not allow concealed weapons?

[Tenou]

AH the old "gun owners are just compensated for a small penis" arguement. How typical. I suppose you ignore the statistics of guns STOPPING crime, right? Maybe that Vtech was a "gun free zone' and thus made it so the Cho was guaranteed no opposition?
How about in '02 at the University of Virginia, where a shooter was stopped by two armed students? Lives were saved there.
or how LA has had a 1300% increase in murders since they have implimented gun control? Or how about how all the "murder capitals" Have strict gun control, and do not allow concealed weapons?
Finish reading my post. The part where I mentioned registration. That's part of gun control, and doesn't do a whole lot.

[Animematt55]

Finish reading my post. The part where I mentioned registration. That's part of gun control, and doesn't do a whole lot.

and? All registration means is that the government knows what guns you have when they try to take them away.
If it doesn't do a whole lot then we should just get rid of it right? I mean, the criminals already have their guns illegally, and unregistered. SO should the law abiding citizens.

I am thinking about going ice fishing this year when everything gets all nice and cold.

[Suiko Eiji]

Sorry, dear, I meant to explain, but got lost in a tangent and forgot. What I was going to get into was that these 'school shootings' are being deemed school shootings regardless of any other factor involved. Because they are all deemed the same then the specifics are the same, and nothing changes, or the wrong things change.
The École Polytechnique tragedy is now referred to as a school shooting, however, it is anachronistic. Now calling it a school shooting means a reinterpretation of the reasoning behind it, when it wasn't angry music and video games, old fashioned misogyny. However, by lumping it in with 'school shootings, it is assumed that some depressed gothic kid did it because they played too many video games (because, and it saddens me, a lot of people don't seem to remember that the circumstances surrounding École Polytechnique and Dawson College aren't the same, with the exception that yes, they were both in schools and both in Quebec).
And Kimveer Gill, the shooter in the Dawson College tragedy wasn't some poor bullied child who choose to fight against his abusers. He seemed, to all intents and purposes to be socially integrated.
The shooting at Concordia, the shooter wasn't even a student, it was a professor bent on revenge.
The latest one... inner city school in Toronto. Has absolutely nothing in common with the other shootings except for the place. Hell, it may or may not have been an accident (I don't remember the specifics because there were so many stories going around, I don't remember which ones were true).

You're closer, but you're still seeing 'school shooting' as one kind, when they're not. That's why it's dangerous to lump all of these tragedies together (I single out Canada because I know much more about them and can say with certainty that many of them do not fall under the category of what many consider the key elements of a school shooting, the perpetrator, the justification). Do I make any sort of sense?


I can kinda see your point that each of the individual perpatrators involved may not have the broad-brushed background I painted but I guess it is hard for me to think of them not being considered "shool shootings" the same way that I don't also think of the North Hollywood Shootout being also a bank robbery.

If we more narrowly define the definition of school shooting to include the MO and background of the perpatrator, then I would have to agree that EP would still fall into the category but Dawson could be and Concordia should definately be thrown right out. However, in the eyes of the law, which I think should be the defining factor, a shooting is a shooting, massacre is massacre. The only role motive (ignoring hate crime legislation because I don't want to get into it) should play is whether or not it was premedetated. Simply defining them based upon location or string of actual events, they can be considered "school shootings". I'm still up for disqualifying Concordia though as a labor dispute and I don't believe students were injured or involved.

Oh, and it looks like someone thought it'd be funny to play copy cat:

Finnish Police Arrest Youth in Youtube Massacre Threat (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071111223519.7l7ig93m&show_article=1)

[Stelok]

Are scarce school shootings, especially in a supposedly peaceful country like Finland more special than common shootings in a turbulent, war-besieged nation like Iraq?

[Alice Catherine]

^No, but it's a hell of a lot less common to see it in Finland, amirite?


So they've canceled Promenade, locked up all the bathrooms, and forbid us to use the restrooms between classes at my school.


Yet we had a dance on Friday. What. The. ****?

[Undrave]

I mean, the criminals already have their guns illegally, and unregistered. SO should the law abiding citizens.



Except that your not a soldier, a security guard or a cop. It's not your job to fight crime, to stop violent people with guns. You have no right to decide to shoot those attackers or not. Society invented law enforcement for a reason.

Randomly carrying a gun is just asking for accidents to happen --

[Animematt55]

Except that your not a soldier, a security guard or a cop. It's not your job to fight crime, to stop violent people with guns. You have no right to decide to shoot those attackers or not. Society invented law enforcement for a reason.

Randomly carrying a gun is just asking for accidents to happen --

Right. So when some guy starts shooting up[ a restaurant, we ask him nicely to wait for the police to get there before he actually kills everyone, right?
In fact, I DO have the right to shoot attackers. If my life, my family's life, and even complete stranger's lives are in danger, I will make the decision to save their lives by taking the person's life that is trying to take theirs. It is a tough choice, but I would much rather kill an insane murderer, than have him kill someone else.

The police can not be everywhere at once, it is the job of the citizens of this country to protect themselves, and not hide cowering behind their own government, and expect free hands out for everything.

[Undrave]

I pay 13% sales tax... I don't expect stuff to come free :D

Carry non-lethal weapon then, mr. pessimistic.

Anyway I don't want to get into this. It's not like you'll change your mind eh? I made my choice and I'll live with it.

[JFaulkner]

Carry non-lethal weapon then, mr. pessimistic.


AnimeMatt's response:

SO, if there were 5 crazed, unemployed illegal immigrants about to rape and kill a poor little girl and all of them had guns, WTF do you want me to do with a non-lethal weapon? If my life, my best friend's life, my girlfriend's life, my mum's life, my dad's life, little Jimmy down the street's life is in danger, then hell, I want to put a bullet through the bastards who threaten liberty ... and oh yeah, don't expect free hand-outs from the governments.

[Victory]

these incidents hurt my head

there's always a flood of theories in the days following... ow.

I think the government can't build gun laws around crazy people and should build the law around the bottom line i.e. what regulation controls total homicides the best.

It's not a very constructive thought but it's way ahead of soccer moms arguing about what caused a very unpredictable event and coming up with prevention plans. ("T'WAS ROCK MUSIC I SAY. A SOLDIER IN EVERY CLASSROOM I SAY.") Then it dies down and we turn back to reality TV. I don't include myself in this "we", I just watch anime before, during and after instead.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Randomly carrying a gun is just asking for accidents to happen --

Or stops people from slitting your throat. I had to exercise my CCL in Houston within sight of police headquarters. If I did not do so we would not be having this conversation and my parents would be wealthy. It still took the Police ten minutes to get on the scene after I called 9-11 and they were 2 blocks away!

The simple fact is guns legally in the hands of citizens prevent far more crime than anything else in the US. For every school shooting you have you will get more than 10,000 rapes, robberies, and other various crimes every year.

[Animematt55]

remember, if you take away a criminals tool, he will either lie and get one anyways, or he will use another tool.
Fact: there are more accidental deaths in cars every year than accidental deaths with guns. Also more drowning accidents.
Sharpshooting is actually one of the safest sports in the country.
One must also remember that non lethal weapons are not always effective. Many muggings rapes etc are committed by people on some sort of drug.
I have seen police pepper spray (that stuff is strong) have no effect on people. While I do also carry pepper spray, I would like to have something a little more powerful if I ever need it.
Another fact: Extremely few people Conceal carry, and next to non of them ever have to actually use said firearm.

[Bernard_Monsha]

^

The majority of accidents with guns are actually suicides.

[animeotaku99]

^

The majority of accidents with guns are actually suicides.

i s it an accident if you want it to happen though?
on a side note I just interviewed for a reserve deputy position at my COunty Sheriff department, sadly I did not get the job though, hopefully next year when I am graduated I can get it.
The reserve deputies have to purchase their own guns and equipment belts, so I should save up I bit extra money for that

[Animematt55]

^

The majority of accidents with guns are actually suicides.

So then it isn't an accident. SO the statistics are flawed.

I remember my friends hippy girlfriend saying that I would mistakenly kill my friends and family with one of my guns, lol. Then she went and DROVE home.
She is the type of hippy that absolutely hates everything, except illegal drugs of course...and unprotected sex with strangers.

I also don't even have my CCW yet. I have to get one for two states, ND, and MN. Plus Only my Walther P1 is the only gun i have that is actually comfortable to carry, and even then, i need to find a proper holster to fit the old thing