Nirvana

[kenshinbebop]

Ah yes, Nirvana.

I'm just watching a Fuse Loaded special while on my laptop, so decided to make a thread about em. Love em or hate em, they no doubt revolutionized an era, imo. If not an era, a generation or genre if you want to call it.

Anyways, I'm a huge fan, they'd have to be top 3 I think. Love Kurts voice so much. Their songs are simple and catchy, and the melodies and harmonies are fantabulous.

Also, seeing as the topic of Kurt Cobain and the details surrounding his murder (or suicide, as some choose to call it), draws much controversy, let's just keep this to Nirvana and their music.

My favorite album is deffinately Nevermind. Then MTV Unplugged. Then In Utero. Bleach and Incesticide were ok, but top 3, deffinately the 3 I mentioned, imo.

Any opinions/discussions?

[ANIMEJUNKY]

It is somewhat like elvis, they were popular but Kurt's death only saturized them even more to a band that will always be known. They didn't define a generation, they only made it easily identifiable to say hey thats generation X. I love them, but they weren't that godly, yet they were a big part of the music world.

[Samurai Drifter]

My opinion: Nirvana sucks.

Kinda funny that Dave Grohl's talents were under-utilized with them. Foo Fighters are way better.

[goddessofanime]

As someone from Generation X, I do like their songs and all...but killing yourself does not make you a hero.

[Sora Sol]

As someone from Generation X, I do like their songs and all...but killing yourself does not make you a hero.

No. it makes you an hero.

Anyway, I always liked them, as they were my first rock band. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was my first video, back when i was about 4. My babysitter was obsessed with them, and one day, we were at my house playing with the TV on, and then they announce that Kurt did it, at which point she broke down and wept. I was so confused, and for the next year or so, I had tried to find out as much as I could by asking random people in my neighborhood. I ended up basically being around my babysitters friends who were all part of the grundge/punk scene of the time. They taught me well, they taught me how to play guitar. I wanted to learn Nirvana songs so that I could become Kurt so that my babysitter wouldn't be sad anymore...

[Jae Hoon]

As someone from Generation X, I do like their songs and all...but killing yourself does not make you a hero.

Unless you are in or close to your mid 30s you arent old enough to be Gen X.

[Soluzar]

Unless you are in or close to your mid 30s you arent old enough to be Gen X.
Gen X, representin'.

[tenshi_a]

Nirvana made music bad.

I'm not saying they made bad music, but what happened to music while they were big... and what happened to general pop music since... ruined.

[old person]

Oh and "Last Days" is the worst film ever made. Ever.

Well, they tried to not have the main character being called Kurt Cobain but that meant that if it wasn't a film about him, it was about no-one and the film was just meaningless boring crap watching some guy making cereal and sleeping.

[Soluzar]

Nirvana made music bad.

I'm not saying they made bad music, but what happened to music while they were big... and what happened to general pop music since... ruined.
If you're talking about all the imitation Nirvana acts that came along ever since, then yeah. The fake "grunge" or fake "punk" or "oh so alternative" rubbish has really overwhelmed the small amount of good music out there.

[kenshinbebop]

If you're talking about all the imitation Nirvana acts that came along ever since, then yeah. The fake "grunge" or fake "punk" or "oh so alternative" rubbish has really overwhelmed the small amount of good music out there.

I don't see how that's their fault. The only things I can think of are that siad bands are influenced by Nirvana, or that Nirvana re-amped said scene. In my opinion, niether of these options take away from Nirvana's career and their music, which was very good.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Unless you are in or close to your mid 30s you arent old enough to be Gen X.

She also is not cynical enough.

I am surprised AxlX has not lit into a mini rant about the suckiness of Nirvana. Of course they came out slightly before I tuned out of top 40 music around 94 or 95 so I am indifferent to them.

[max payne]

Nirvana are load of bollocks. They were dull and acessible sell outs, they were the My Chemical Romance of their time but just not as bad. Very close though.

[kenshinbebop]

How were they sell outs?

[HSaabedra]

How were they sell outs?

They made grunge into pop music. Their impact is overinflated by tone deaf retards. Real grunge bands like Dag Nasty and Jesus Lizard got pushed into obscurity.

[Jae Hoon]

They made grunge into pop music. Their impact is overinflated by tone deaf retards. Real grunge bands like Dag Nasty and Jesus Lizard got pushed into obscurity.

No they didnt, they made the same type of music before they were mainstream. They never changed their music, they just got picked up when others didnt. Something Nirvana themselves said publicly several times. This whole they sold out arguement is retarded.

[HSaabedra]

No they didnt, they made the same type of music before they were mainstream. They never changed their music, they just got picked up when others didnt. Something Nirvana themselves said publicly several times. This whole they sold out arguement is retarded.

Got the demo tapes to back it up or are you just going by what VH1 says? I have the subPop demo tape that got them signed and the music on there is more along the lines of Dag Nasty or Rites of Spring than the crap they spewed forth. Do I also need to remind people that Nevermind was one of the most returned albums in the Soundscan era? No one liked the album, but Geffen repackaged it with Smells Like Teen Spirit.

[Jae Hoon]

Got the demo tapes to back it up or are you just going by what VH1 says?

Since you know everyone carries around demo tapes, wtf does that prove? Seriously I understand not liking a band but your arguement consist of THEY SUCK BECAUSE THEY GOT FAMOUS ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Not to mention their music doesnt sound any different then people like the Screaming Trees who they credit for much of their musical sound. You are just hating for the sake of hating.

Really arguements against Nirvana would consist of stuff like, Kurts lack of ablity to play guitar. Something he self admittedly wasnt very good at. The fact that he wasnt the best singer in the world, Kurt did sound like crap sometimes. Most of their riffs were simple 3 or 4 string riffs looped over and over. Those are valid complaints, the fact that they got famous are not. They really didnt blow up until after Kurt killed himself, sure they were famous before then but not nearly that famous.

[HSaabedra]

Since you know everyone carries around demo tapes, wtf does that prove? Seriously I understand not liking a band but your arguement consist of THEY SUCK BECAUSE THEY GOT FAMOUS ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Not to mention their music doesnt sound any different then people like the Screaming Trees who they credit for much of their musical sound. You are just hating for the sake of hating.

Their music is hardly what I would call good. They merely rode that sound into oblivion. I don't hate them at all, I hate the tone deaf retards that deify a drug addled idiot who tied himself off into oblivion. The fact that you took it personally is laughable.

[Jae Hoon]

Their music is hardly what I would call good. They merely rode that sound into oblivion. I don't hate them at all, I hate the tone deaf retards that deify a drug addled idiot who tied himself off into oblivion. The fact that you took it personally is laughable.

I am not taking it personally, your whole counterargument was that they sucked because they were mainstream. Granted you probably didnt see my edit before you started responding. Kurt Cobain himself is NOT a role model, he was a drug abusing slacker who usually is looked down upon. He was also married to a parasite whom I still think had something to do with his death.

[kenshinbebop]

No they didnt, they made the same type of music before they were mainstream. They never changed their music, they just got picked up when others didnt. Something Nirvana themselves said publicly several times. This whole they sold out arguement is retarded.

QFT.

You obviously lack the deffinition of "sell out".

Nevermind was an awesome album, from start to finish, the fact that Smells Like...was on it is not even the point. It could have been omited. In Bloom to Something in the Way, every track is awesome. We obviously disagree with music tastes.

I can understand we're your coming from being falsely labeled as Grunge. They were very poppy, and very alternative. Just because they are labeled as that desn't make them a bad band. It's not like they said "Hey Guyz, we're Nirvana, a GruNge band." That's what they were labeled. They were pop grunge at best.

Like Katsushiro said, a valid argument is their lack of techincality. However, they weren't trying to be Pink Floyd. They made catchy tunes, and that's what everyone liked/likes.

Basically, the topic of Nirvana as a whole is based on opinion. There are haters who hate them, Kurt, the music, and there are lovers who love the music, love Kurt, and love them. Although I am a lover, I must say no one is right or wrong, it is solely opinion.

He was also married to a parasite whom I still think had something to do with his death.

It's so evident, to me at least, that she did. There's so much evidence, if not pointing towards her, pointing towards indeffinate murder.

[HSaabedra]

I am not taking it personally, your whole counterargument was that they sucked because they were mainstream. Granted you probably didnt see my edit before you started responding. Kurt Cobain himself is NOT a role model, he was a drug abusing slacker who usually is looked down upon. He was also married to a parasite whom I still think had something to do with his death.

Your whole argument is rendered invalid solely on the fact that you along with all of the other fanatics believe Courtney Love had any part in his death. Any evidence pointing to her as a factor in his death is purely hearsay and circumstance.

My whole issue with Nirvana is the fanbase as much as Kurt Cobain himself.

[Jae Hoon]

Your whole argument is rendered invalid solely on the fact that you along with all of the other fanatics believe Courtney Love had any part in his death. Any evidence pointing to her as a factor in his death is purely hearsay and circumstance.

My whole issue with Nirvana is the fanbase as much as Kurt Cobain himself.

Why there is actual proof she did have something to do with it. He had quit doing drugs for months before his suicide. Courtney got him back on them by constantly pestering him to do them and pushing them into his face. She also constantly made sure he stayed depressed and killed his mood when she could. All this is actually documented. Not to mention I am not a fanatic, you just automatically judge anyone who likes Nirvana as one. You have no counterarguement so you just resort to im right your wrong.

[kenshinbebop]

Your whole argument is rendered invalid solely on the fact that you along with all of the other fanatics believe Courtney Love had any part in his death. Any evidence pointing to her as a factor in his death is purely hearsay and circumstance.

My whole issue with Nirvana is the fanbase as much as Kurt Cobain himself.

Being one who hates that guy, I can't fathom you've actually looked into the matter. But on the off cahnce you did, I fail to see how "all" of the evidence is wrong. There are few numbers that are varried by source, but there are some solid facts that you'll just ahve to face.

Every popular band, and even some not so popular, is bound to have a rabid fanbase, especially with a high profile death involved.

[HSaabedra]

Being one who hates that guy, I can't fathom you've actually looked into the matter. But on the off cahnce you did, I fail to see how "all" of the evidence is wrong. There are few numbers that are varried by source, but there are some solid facts that you'll just ahve to face.

Every popular band, and even some not so popular, is bound to have a rabid fanbase, especially with a high profile death involved.

The entire case is a matter of public record and the evidence is available for all to see, the fact that Courtney was a negative influence isn't in question, it's the fact that there's a lot of gaps inbetween the beginning of the weekend to the day of his discovery. Too many people want to blame Courtney for something she couldn't have done to begin with if the timeline given is to be believed.

[kenshinbebop]

The entire case is a matter of public record and the evidence is available for all to see, the fact that Courtney was a negative influence isn't in question, it's the fact that there's a lot of gaps inbetween the beginning of the weekend to the day of his discovery. Too many people want to blame Courtney for something she couldn't have done to begin with if the timeline given is to be believed.

I'm not claiming she pulled the trigger. She deffinately paid or had someone paid to do so though.

[goddessofanime]

Unless you are in or close to your mid 30s you arent old enough to be Gen X.

Actually depsite the fact that I post like a teenager and don't sound cynical, I'm actually old enough to remember when Nirvana came out.

They were okay but to me, KC sounded average. And for God's sake, Courtney Love had nothing to do with his death. Nirvana just got lucky and came out at a time when people were looking for something different in music.

John Lennon was a hero who truly was an original; Kurt Cobain was a sad drug abuser who squandered his talent away.

[kenshinbebop]

And for God's sake, Courtney Love had nothing to do with his death.

John Lennon was a hero who truly was an original; Kurt Cobain was a sad drug abuser who squandered his talent away.

Like I said, it's entirely based on the persons stand if they think Courtney ahd involvement. Every hater thinks she had nothing to do with it.

Like it or not, Kurt was to some kids who were depressed or outcasted as JL was to the world. Kurt was a huge JL fan.

[goddessofanime]

Like I said, it's entirely based on the persons stand if they think Courtney ahd involvement. Every hater thinks she had nothing to do with it.

Like it or not, Kurt was to some kids who were depressed or outcasted as JL was to the world. Kurt was a huge JL fan.


She didn't have a damn thing to do with his death. She was just as messed up on drugs as he was.

And while yes, I don't doubt that he was an idol to many kids, the fact is that he took the easy way out and killed himself because he didn't want to become a sellout. Some role model.

[kenshinbebop]

She didn't have a damn thing to do with his death. She was just as messed up on drugs as he was.

And while yes, I don't doubt that he was an idol to many kids, the fact is that he took the easy way out and killed himself because he didn't want to become a sellout. Some role model.

Seems to me you lack basic facts surrounding his death. I could be wrong.

[Sora Sol]

The reason why I like Nirvana's music is the same reason why some people say they liked KoRn's (earlier) music, is because they were able to take something ugly and make it into interesting music. The way they do certain riffs or notes, especially on a song like "Something in the Way", and then add it to rather dirty-sounding singing, makes for music that actually is really rather creative in the sense that, as said, can turn something that sounds like it wouldn't suit anybody's pallette into something that can easily help personify the confusion and gritty feelings that many teenagers and young adults felt at the time of the grundge explosion. Nirvana just happened to be the one that was most relatable. I never considered Nirvana pop by any means, mostly beacuse I always viewed that "pop" meant that keyboards and electronic elements are used (not that they are popular. I use the word "mainstream"), and so I always classified them as grunge.

Sure, Kurt Cobain is by no means a good role-model for teenagers by any means. And alot of people find the whole suicide aspect of him to be the most irritating part of his legacy. But I think that Kurt's career was only made that much more valuable to learn from because he killed himself. Here was a man who was going through some bad things: he was a druggy (who I actually could care less as to whether or not she killed him), he was married to a druggy, he was going to lose custody of his kid. But the most noteworthy problem he had was what many would think would be the greatest thing that'd come to him: his fame. He did not want it, to be famous, and to be on the covers of magazines and MTV and all that crap. If he was alledgedly a "sellout" than there would be almost no validity in his committing suicide. He wanted to be alone so he could find a way to solve his problems. But he didn't, the media was on him 24/7 because he had the title of "the leader of a generation" thrusted upon him, which is one load of pressure that nobody really wants. THAT is why he killed himself. All of his other problems could be cured by therapy or a legal system. Fame is something that never, ever goes away, something you can never escape.

The whole lesson to be learned of the tragic life of Kurt Cobain is that fame comes with an incredible price, and Kurt couldn't handle having to deal with that which he never wanted in the first place. So he killed himself. To him, it was the only escape. And now, all we have left of his legacy is the music which carries all the emotions that he had with him up to that point. However, he isn't the only person who could see themselves in his lyrics. Millions of other people did and still do to this day; the same confusion and worry about where your life is going and how you can escape all the bad things that you wish didn't make you who you are. That is why Kurt Cobain is a great musician. It wasn't so much that he chose to be the voice of a generation... it was that a generation chose for him to be their voice.

[goddessofanime]

You could say the same for Tupac or Biggie then. Not exactly great role models but yet, they're both the 'voices of a generation'. :rolls eyes:

[Sora Sol]

Yeah, but they were murdered. They argued with each other that made their respective followers hate and want to kill each other. And so as a result of that, people either acting on behalf of their respective coasts or on behalf of some third party, killed Tupac and Biggie as they were the leaders. Kurt didn't try to diss people and piss them off. There's kind of a difference.

[kenshinbebop]

I never considered Nirvana pop by any means, mostly beacuse I always viewed that "pop" meant that keyboards and electronic elements are used (not that they are popular. I use the word "mainstream"), and so I always classified them as grunge.

Yeah, I hate callnig bands like this pop, but have come to accept the meaning as popular. But I can't help but think of freakin' Christina Agulara and such when I think of pop.

You could say the same for Tupac or Biggie then. Not exactly great role models but yet, they're both the 'voices of a generation'. :rolls eyes:

I've never heard either Biggie or Tupac be reffered to as a voice of a generation. Vocies for underprivelleged, inner city youth maybe. There was no generation though.

[Sora Sol]

Yeah, I hate callnig bands like this pop, but have come to accept the meaning as popular. But I can't help but think of freakin' Christina Agulara and such when I think of pop.



I've never heard either Biggie or Tupac be reffered to as a voice of a generation. Vocies for underprivelleged, inner city youth maybe. There was no generation though.

Yeah, more like "the voice of a culture".

[kenshinbebop]

I'm still on my whole Nirvana kick. I'm really into some of their lesser known ones. Anuerysm and Blew for example, and their covers of Jesus Don't Want Me For a Sunbeam and WHere Did You Sleep Last Night.

The whole MTV Unplugged album/show is/was amazing.
I want to get their Live album, From the Muddy Banks of something...

But anyways, steering away from the controversy above, what is anyones's favorite albums/songs?

[Talon]

Ah yes, Nirvana. Out of the whole Seattle rock scene I'd have to say that Nirvana is the most overrated. Alice in Chains is a lot better. I have actually come to the conclusion that Alice in Chains is Nirvana done right.

And as for Kurt Cobain? Dave Grohl killed him.

[Sendo Takeshi]

Dave Grohl was the star of that show. His drumming on the 3rd Queens of the Stone Age album was too good.

Either way, I didn't like Nirvana that much. In Utero was fire, though.

[HSaabedra]

Ah yes, Nirvana. Out of the whole Seattle rock scene I'd have to say that Nirvana is the most overrated. Alice in Chains is a lot better. I have actually come to the conclusion that Alice in Chains is Nirvana done right.

Someone gets it. The fact that Jerry Cantrell knocked out Kurt Cobain at Trees in my hometown is further proof of how much of a waste Kurt was.

The Ballad of Nirvana (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lQUzyPqL6kM)

[kenshinbebop]

The Ballad of Nirvana (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lQUzyPqL6kM)

WTF was that? Like seriously, not even because I'm a Nirvana fan, but who was that band, and why do they suck so much?? Besides their Nirvana stuff...they're just god awful.

I hope it was a joke...

[MonkeyBoy0314]

They made grunge into pop music. Their impact is overinflated by tone deaf retards. Real grunge bands like Dag Nasty and Jesus Lizard got pushed into obscurity.

The guys of Nirvana didn't expect the kind of popularity that they got. Cobain definitely didn't want it, which is one theory for why he shot himself. That is why they are not sell-outs.

I like hearing Nirvana every now-and-then, but I can't stand how often they are played on the radio.

[kenshinbebop]

The guys of Nirvana didn't expect the kind of popularity that they got. Cobain definitely didn't want it, which is one theory for why he shot himself. That is why they are not sell-outs.

I like hearing Nirvana every now-and-then, but I can't stand how often they are played on the radio.

Really? They're hardly ever get airplay here...

[kenshinbebop]

I recently acquired Sliver:Best of the Box which is like a bunch of home recordings and some unreleased studio cuts. It's pretty good. A lot of the takes are pretty rough sound quality wise, but the studio and band takes are awesome. Especially this song Ain't it a Shame. It's been stuck in my head all day. I'm not sure if it's theirs or not though.

[proxie]

I useto enjoy listening to Nirvana but the radio's just over play it so much, over the years i've grown to almost loathe the sound of them.

I never listen to the radio these days cause of there ability to over play good songs till you hate it, or even worse play horrible songs till you somewhat like it

[kenshinbebop]

I was lucky enough to catch the last half of MTV's Nirvana Unplugged last night at 2 AM. I was awaka nad flipping thorugh the channels. Thank you lord!!

It was amazing. I can't wait to get it on DVD soon.

Kurt was so happy and thankflu, it's seriously hard to beleive he killed himslef in a few months. It strengthens my doubt. But alas...