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JFaulkner
September 22nd, 2007, 06:58 AM
A re-hash of an argument I have made in the past, to see what people think:


According to an article linked to nausicaa.net (http://utd500.utdallas.edu/~hairston/laputaname.html), it is not known whether Miyazaki knew that laputa meant "the w-hore" in spanish when the name was chosen. Arguing from the movie, I suggest the spanish meaning is consistent with the themes shown. This is independent of whether Miyazaki actually intended to use the name to tie in with the movie's themes.

PG106 of "Irrational Man - A study in existential philosophy" by William Barrett begins with a consideration of Laputa in Swift's novel (Swift is author of Gulliver's Travels, in case you didn't know). To quote (PG106):


"Laputa is an island that floats in the air .... When the shipwrecked Gulliver is rescued and brought up to this island, he finds the inhabitants the oddest-looking creatures he has ever seen. Their eyes do not focus on the person or object before them; instead one eye is turned upward as if in perpetual contemplation of the stars, and the other turned inward in empty and vacuous introversion."


PG107 describes how the Laputans are paradigms of the intellectual - so absorbed in abstract thought, so cerebral that a normal conversation is beyond them. The floating island is symbolic of the lofty ideals of such abstract thought which is cut off from hard reality (the earth). Thus, Barrett says:


"That vigorous coarseness of Swift's temperament, which expressed itself even in the name he chose for this place, la puta, suggests and may even have been inspired by Luther's equally vigorous and coarse exclamation, "The w-hore reason!""


Well OK, wiki-paedia zealots would find this Luther thing at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laputa (typically, a source is not given within the wiki entry), but the book goes into much greater detail.

And, so what?

In a similar vein, in the anime, Laputa can be seen as representing the pinnacle of the achievement of the human intellect, "rationality" as it were. As Musca says:

"Laputa flies because of a formerly impressive scientific power."

This demonstrates Laputa as the culmination of some logical, rational process of sorts. The intellectual bias of Laputa is reflected in Musca. He cleaves to the intellectual side: e.g. while Pazu and Sheeta grapple with fierce winds and really "feels" nature to reach Laputa, Musca sits there in an airship (product of the intellect) dangling Sheeta's Levistone, and letting the airship do all the hard work. Musca seeks Laputa for power and wants to rip apart the Earth (nature). Contrast this with Sheeta's song, recited to him:

"Put down roots in the Earth;
Let's live with the wind;
With seeds, make fat the winter;
With the birds, let's sing of spring."

... and soon afterwards:

"you can't live separated from the ground."

i.e. she alludes to the danger of losing our "roots" to Earth (Laputa is an uprooted giant tree, with a castle [human construct] bolted on), that is, the danger of letting the uniquely human intellect dictate every aspect of our lives, to the detriment of ignoring the instinctual, "emotional" basis that we share with the rest of nature. That this song comes from the valley of Gondoa further indicates the contrast with the celestial Laputa. And perhaps to add to this dichotomy, Pazu comes from a mining village. Musca also blurts out:

"If you want to be a man, too, then listen to reason!!"

Sheeta's Grandma says that the spell of destruction for Laputa is realized with the words

"Light, be reborn."

Light, in a symbolic sense (e.g. in Gnosticism), can be equated with that type of knowledge associated with revelation - that which is divorced from knowledge arrived at by logical thought. Thus, the spell is a call to arms - "Bring down this filthy [w-hore] intellect which threatens to overwhelm our whole being!". That the Light needs to be reborn suggests it is suppressed by another force; here interpreted as "logical thought".

The Levistone at the end is sacrificed by Sheeta - she rejects the power to soar above the Earth and lord over it - that is - she rejects the path which means a total desecration of our "emotions". In other words, she follows the path in which we are much more than the sum of rational thoughts.

So, Laputa is appropriate for the floating island in the anime as it shows how the intellect that subsumes all can be "the w-hore" which becomes the blight of human existence.

Lunay
September 24th, 2007, 09:06 PM
No wonder Disney released it simply as "Castle in the Sky." Just imagine what would have happened if they had released it in Mexico as "Laputa: Castle in the Sky." :laugh:

It's really a good thing for me that I use the Japanese pronunciation of "Rapyuta" when referring to this Ghibli film. In fact, I can't imagine someone referring to this film with a Spanish pronunciation of "La-puta." It has always been "Castle in the Sky" or "La-pyu-ta" for me.

Delta-Pheonix
September 25th, 2007, 11:03 AM
That was deep, I think you deserve a special cookie
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u242/jag1013/800px-Choco_chip_cookie.jpg

Ken-Ohki
September 27th, 2007, 12:02 PM
I'm certain that Miyazaki was unaware of the origins of the name Laputa from Gulliver's Travel and used it. Simply my opinion.

JFaulkner
September 27th, 2007, 01:36 PM
I'm certain that Miyazaki was unaware of the origins of the name Laputa from Gulliver's Travel and used it. Simply my opinion.
I think that Miyazaki being unaware of the origins is the likely scenario, and hence I did not try to show that he was aware of the origins.

Caster13
September 29th, 2007, 12:22 PM
Ghibli is an Italian word. its actually pronounced 'Jibli'. but since theres a language barrier the name of the studio is pronounced differently. they thought about a change to the original around the beginning of the studio but they kept the current pronounciation.

i dont know if studio is the correct description, but whatever.

JFaulkner
September 29th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Ghibli is an Italian word. its actually pronounced 'Jibli'. but since theres a language barrier the name of the studio is pronounced differently. they thought about a change to the original around the beginning of the studio but they kept the current pronounciation.

i dont know if studio is the correct description, but whatever.
I don't see how this is relevant to the thread's topic area.

Caster13
September 29th, 2007, 07:40 PM
the studio name derives from a foreign word like the anime name is related to one.

Brill
October 2nd, 2007, 08:17 AM
Well DIsnry panicked because they are uber-PC. It's sad when a show gets censored for citing classic literature by an oversensitive marketing group.

KabukiSaMuRaI
May 27th, 2008, 02:28 PM
While, we are well aware of the meaning of Laputa in espanol, I believe that Miyazaki was referencing the place mentioned in Gulliver's Travels. It has to be. Based on the trend of his style and story lines, his works are family oriented. It is not conceivable that he would take it to mean anything else, based upon what we know about him.

I'm sure if he was aware of the other connotation, he probably would have used another name. My guess is as good as anyone else's...

Delta-Pheonix
July 9th, 2008, 09:38 AM
While, we are well aware of the meaning of Laputa in espanol, I believe that Miyazaki was referencing the place mentioned in Gulliver's Travels. It has to be. Based on the trend of his style and story lines, his works are family oriented. It is not conceivable that he would take it to mean anything else, based upon what we know about him.

I'm sure if he was aware of the other connotation, he probably would have used another name. My guess is as good as anyone else's...

I think it's probably best to assume so, seeing as were on the subject of borrowing foreign words Anime is french, just thought I'd point that out.

Leader Desslock
July 9th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Since we're pointing things out, I'll point out that Gulliver's Travels isn't what I'd consider "family oriented", either. The watered down, kiddy-fare version that most kids get in schools might pretend to be, but anyone who's read Swift's original work (all four parts) knows better.

KabukiSaMuRaI
July 9th, 2008, 10:35 PM
I think it's probably best to assume so, seeing as were on the subject of borrowing foreign words Anime is french, just thought I'd point that out.

Something I'd like to point out: That is correct but the only foreign word that we were discussing is LAPUTA.

Since we're pointing things out, I'll point out that Gulliver's Travels isn't what I'd consider "family oriented", either. The watered down, kiddy-fare version that most kids get in schools might pretend to be, but anyone who's read Swift's original work (all four parts) knows better.

Your familiarity with Swift's original work is impressive. While you may not consider Gulliver's Travels family oriented, it does not change the fact that Miyazaki's anime are, for the most part, considered as such. Assuming he did use the name from said story, I know not to what extent he was familiar with it or what the name meant in other languages. It's possible he just liked the idea of a floating castle, which he turned into a good story of his own. A good a guess as any.

Leader Desslock
July 10th, 2008, 01:44 AM
Assuming he did use the name from said story, I know not to what extent he was familiar with it or what the name meant in other languages. It's possible he just liked the idea of a floating castle, which he turned into a good story of his own. A good a guess as any.
That'd be my guess as well. I seriously doubt that Miyazaki was familiar with Swift's original intent. My guess is that he saw the omnipresent imagery from the kiddified Western renditions, and those served as an inspiration for his work.

We all know darn well that he never meant "the w_hore", and that meaning of "la puta" is a pure phonetic coincidence, but ... well, we could've guessed that by looking at who created the thread.

He never meant "the hoar", either. That just wouldn't have rime'd. (rimshot)

KabukiSaMuRaI
July 12th, 2008, 09:43 AM
That'd be my guess as well. I seriously doubt that Miyazaki was familiar with Swift's original intent. My guess is that he saw the omnipresent imagery from the kiddified Western renditions, and those served as an inspiration for his work.

We all know darn well that he never meant "the w_hore", and that meaning of "la puta" is a pure phonetic coincidence, but ... well, we could've guessed that by looking at who created the thread.



Swift's original intent seems to be irrelevant here. Whether or not Miyazaki knew the whole story or just the abridged adaptations (you keep pushing the "kiddified versions), his anime was just based on the premise of a floating castle. The story and details he crafted to fit his own vision thus the only link to Swift being the name of the floating castle.

**Being who he is, I think that Miyazaki was probably was familiar the Swift's vision but just tailored it to fit his ideas. Of course I'll never really know unless I ask him, but to his credit I believe that he is the type of person who researches in depth before starting a project such as this. I'm sure he was aware of the potential backlash from fans and critics and probably considered the implications before taking this on. In addition, I will apply this character judgment on the Spanish translation of "la puta" because it seems to be used to try take HIS vision out of context but really has no bearing.**

Not just a phonetic coincidence...unknowingly(?) using a word from another rich and established culture, I'm sure Swift was unaware of that meaning himself.

Still conjecture but it does make for an interesting topic.

Suiko Eiji
July 12th, 2008, 09:40 PM
I think the real issue at heart, which kills Hairston's hypothesis, is that Tenkuu no Shiro Lapyuta isn't pronounced the same as the Spanish word. I can't read the original article, as it's no longer on his webspace. As Lunay mentioned, originally mentioned, they're not the same. Going through another article on his webspace, he writes something that makes it sound like Miyazaki didn't finish the Nausicaa manga until 1989 or 1990, despite making the film five or six years earlier.

tl; dr: Noob mistakes by a Miyazaki-lover* who goes overboard.

*lover in this sense meaning derogatory term for male-male fellatio.

EDIT: Just saw how old this thread was. D'Oh