How dare you make a reasonable request.

[Bernard_Monsha]

This kind of thing makes me sick of the entire consumer movement (http://consumerist.com/consumer/civil-rights/tigerdirect-unlawfully-restrains-and-verbally-abuses-customer-for-not-submitting-to-receipt+showing-demands-292688.php). Not only are they trying to challenge laws which not apply to them but they bully stores into firing employees for making completely reasonable demands. Basically this asshat walked into an electronics store determined not to show their receipt in order to file a lawsuit. This comes from ignorance of the law and the cult of "Me" that has infected what used to be a legitimate movement. Reading the pro comments they seriously equate a reasonable demand with being deported to a concentration camp. It is freaking ridiculous. I wish the guard could sue the idiot who started this and bankrupt her.

[Gray]

This kind of thing makes me sick of the entire consumer movement (http://consumerist.com/consumer/civil-rights/tigerdirect-unlawfully-restrains-and-verbally-abuses-customer-for-not-submitting-to-receipt+showing-demands-292688.php). Not only are they trying to challenge laws which not apply to them but they bully stores into firing employees for making completely reasonable demands. Basically this asshat walked into an electronics store determined not to show their receipt in order to file a lawsuit. This comes from ignorance of the law and the cult of "Me" that has infected what used to be a legitimate movement. Reading the pro comments they seriously equate a reasonable demand with being deported to a concentration camp. It is freaking ridiculous. I wish the guard could sue the idiot who started this and bankrupt her.

That's exactly what i thought after i got done reading it. Though the guard and supervisor may have been out of line for shouting remarks at him, the ONLY reason he would have for not showing a little piece of paper is that he wanted to start something and try to file a lawsuit. All that BS about 'i dont have to legally show you' For christ's sake, just show them the recipt and leave. Unless, your like this asshat, and WANT to provoke this.

[Leader Desslock]

Having worked security (non-retail) for a number of years, I can say the following:

1) The guard was entirely in the wrong. Legally, it is unlawful detainment. The issue is quite clear-cut, and if I was the security guard's manager, I'd have relieved the guard from his post to go cool down, apologized to the customer, then taken the guard into the back room for a lecture on the rights of customers and where the boundaries of his position end.

2) The manager can quite successfully be sued for Slander. Without proof or even reasonable suspicion, he called the customer a thief in front of a third party. That's slander, and that manager should receive the unhold slap of Corporate Management for opening his store up to that sort of liability.

3) The 'reasonable request' to see a receipt is an entirely reasonable request. It holds no more legal standing than that, and a customer is entirely within his rights to decline.

4) If staff (store or security) have cause to believe that a customer has in fact stolen something, and if that customer declines the previously mentioned reasonable request, then the proper response is to wish the customer a good day and call the police. The security guard is within his rights tofollow te suspect back to his.her vehicle to get the plate# and description of the suspect's vehicle.

5) US law does allow for one citizen (i.e.: a security guard) to place another citizen (a shoplifting suspect) under a Citizen's Arrest, but only for serious (i.e.: felony) crimes. If a citizen places another citizen under Citizen's Arrest without cause, then the arrestor is liable for infringing upon the civil rights of the detainee, and can get his backside sued off for it. Normally, a civil trial would take circumstances into account (i.e.: if the arrest was made to prevent serious injury or death to a third party, etc.), but in this case, it's just a guard overstepping his bounds. Both the guard and the security company for which he works could get stomped by the ACLU for this one.

6) Without question, the customer has been a royal PITA on this one, and for no reason I can see. I really don't feel sorry for him at all, even though everyone else was in the wrong. He instigated all of the hassle he experienced. If he had actually *cared* about the matter, he should've asked to be shown to the customer service desk for a full and immediate refund, then walked away.

[Bernard_Monsha]

1) The guard was entirely in the wrong. Legally, it is unlawful detainment. The issue is quite clear-cut, and if I was the security guard's manager, I'd have relieved the guard from his post to go cool down, apologized to the customer, then taken the guard into the back room for a lecture on the rights of customers and where the boundaries of his position end.

Actually no the way the law works in most states (you evidently lived in a peoples republic) is he has to be detained for what the community considers an unreasonable amount of time in the court. He will also have to explain the reason why he refused a reasonable request. In Ohio and Texas if you refuse to show a receipt after being confronted you can legally hold a person there until the cops show up which could be 4 to 6 hours with no

2) The manager can quite successfully be sued for Slander. Without proof or even reasonable suspicion, he called the customer a thief in front of a third party. That's slander, and that manager should receive the unhold slap of Corporate Management for opening his store up to that sort of liability.

I doubt this part of the story as it turns out the guy did a dry run of this a week before. In this case I believe the guy is fibbing about it after being coached.

3) The 'reasonable request' to see a receipt is an entirely reasonable request. It holds no more legal standing than that, and a customer is entirely within his rights to decline.

Yes, as is the store in detaining him until the authorities are called. Remember that federal law does not apply and no local or state judge or jury will find the jerks actions reasonable but will find the stores request to show a receipt reasonable.

4) If staff (store or security) have cause to believe that a customer has in fact stolen something, and if that customer declines the previously mentioned reasonable request, then the proper response is to wish the customer a good day and call the police. The security guard is within his rights tofollow te suspect back to his.her vehicle to get the plate# and description of the suspect's vehicle.

No you can hold them in store in most states until the police arrive.

5) US law does allow for one citizen (i.e.: a security guard) to place another citizen (a shoplifting suspect) under a Citizen's Arrest, but only for serious (i.e.: felony) crimes. If a citizen places another citizen under Citizen's Arrest without cause, then the arrestor is liable for infringing upon the civil rights of the detainee, and can get his backside sued off for it. Normally, a civil trial would take circumstances into account (i.e.: if the arrest was made to prevent serious injury or death to a third party, etc.), but in this case, it's just a guard overstepping his bounds. Both the guard and the security company for which he works could get stomped by the ACLU for this one.

Under what statute? The ACLU declined to take this guys case because being an asshat is not protected by law.

[Hara!]

God, I hate the world.

Just show the receipt. It´s not hard.

[Vaikyuko]

People make me laugh nowadays with how utterly arrogant they are. Also, idiotic lawsuits annoy me.

[Amuro]

I think they're both wrong, but if the guy wanted to challenge receipt checks (or at least stores current policy towards them), he could have found a better way to do it..

He didn't have to actually refuse a check to find out what the store's policy on detaining customers is..

Most town newspapers readily print "guest articles" from citizens. The guy could have done his research (by speaking with the guards & managers, reading the company policy, etc.) and then published an article. Nowadays, he didn't even had to use the newspaper.. he could have just gone to The Consumerist with the research or used his own blog/website and forwarded the article to various other relevant internet outlets.

It seems pretty clear that, if he didn't actually steal anything, he did this just to irritate people and obtain satisfaction from it.. never a good thing..

[Opium Tea]

This kind of thing makes me sick of the entire consumer movement (http://consumerist.com/consumer/civil-rights/tigerdirect-unlawfully-restrains-and-verbally-abuses-customer-for-not-submitting-to-receipt+showing-demands-292688.php). Not only are they trying to challenge laws which not apply to them but they bully stores into firing employees for making completely reasonable demands. Basically this asshat walked into an electronics store determined not to show their receipt in order to file a lawsuit. This comes from ignorance of the law and the cult of "Me" that has infected what used to be a legitimate movement. Reading the pro comments they seriously equate a reasonable demand with being deported to a concentration camp. It is freaking ridiculous. I wish the guard could sue the idiot who started this and bankrupt her.

Well, I would construct some manner of witty, poigniant, iron clad attack on the whole situation--which I certainly COULD do--but I won't take the time because really it all comes down to three words--"****ing capitalist wankers."

[Leader Desslock]

Actually no the way the law works in most states (you evidently lived in a peoples republic) is he has to be detained for what the community considers an unreasonable amount of time in the court. He will also have to explain the reason why he refused a reasonable request. In Ohio and Texas if you refuse to show a receipt after being confronted you can legally hold a person there until the cops show up which could be 4 to 6 hours with no
A standard, non-private-police security guard such as a store's Loss Prevention personnel has no authority above and beyond that of a private citizen. In this case, the guard is acting as a representative of the property owner (or lessor). That gives him the right to act in the defense of the property against immediate threats.

If I was on your property, and I tried to leave, and you thought maybe I'd pocketed something of yours (say a Judge DVD) while you weren't watching me, you can certainly request to see the contents of my pockets. Sure enough. I am under no obligation to show you the contents of my pockets. If I continue to leave, you can call the police and tell them you suspect me of stealing something. As a private citizen, you have no right to detain me. To do so would be a form of unlawful detainment.

*does some research*

Ah. Shopkeeper's Privilege. This is why I mentioned I'd worked industrial security, where that caveat wouln't apply. Still, Shopkeeper's Privilege is limited to 10-15 minutes (which was satisfied) and must be performed with reasonable cause for suspicion. I very much doubt they had that in this case.

...no local or state judge or jury will find the jerks actions reasonable but will find the stores request to show a receipt reasonable.
As I said, I have no reason to give the guy any sympathy even though I think he was within his rights.

No you can hold them in store in most states until the police arrive.
No more than 10-15 minutes, tops. If the police aren't there by the end of that time, and the store hasn't managed to find just cause, they gotta let that fish go.

[Genocide]

If I were in that customer's situation I would have done precisely the same thing. It is, after all, my duty. My duty as a complete utter bastard.

& I would do it with a smile.

[goddessofanime]

Most stores make a point to tell or post what their return policies are. While it's obvious that the guy was just being an a**hole for the sake of being one, the store could've gave him credit.

[Tenou]

If I were in that customer's situation I would have done precisely the same thing. It is, after all, my duty. My duty as a complete utter bastard.

& I would do it with a smile.

I would have done it with a simily. 'This store is like hell, there is no excape and there are no repeat customers'.

[Bezerker]

Wow, unemployment with the american legal system must be at an all time high if all these lawyers are hanging out on anime boards...