Epic battle on Sept. 11 '07

[ryushe]

Kanye West and 50 Cent epic battle commences the 11th of September. I don't know about anyone else, but as a big hip hop and Kanye fan I can't wait for Kanye's third album "Graduation". With songs like "Stronger" and "Can't tell me nothing", I just know the albums gonna be fire.

Coincidentally on that same day, 50 Cent also releases his third album, "Curtis". I'm not a huge fan of 50...not even a moderate fan, but his albums does sell very good, with "Get Rich or Die Tryin" going 6x platinum and "The Massacre" going for 5x while both of Kanye's previous albums only went 3x respectively.

Personally, I think Kanye is a better lyricist than that of 50 and I feel this time it will show in his sales. 50 also stated that "If Kanye West sells more records than me [50 Cent] on September 11, I'll no longer write music. I'll write music and work with my other artists, but I won't put out anymore solo albums."
Source (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1652483,00.html)

I honestly think his confidence is gonna be his downfall this time around.

Anyone else looking forward to this?

[master terrence]

I think an agreement was made between the two to sell CDs. Kayne and 50 both have considerable influence in the current hip-hop populous and their record labels. I think the corporations devised this plan, it's to cleanly advertised and on top of that... these are rappers we are talking about. Looking at 50's numbers, his record sales have decreased with every release.


get rich or die trying sold 6.5 million

the massacre sold 4.85 million

[Sendo Takeshi]

Kanye is an average lyricist, but he's a damn good producer. Kinda sucks that he puts out some dope beats for Common and not himself at times. =/

Kanye vs. Osama Bin Laden: Rap Battle '07 live at Ground Zero. I'd pay to see that.

[kenshinbebop]

I know a bunch of people who literally plan on buying Kanye's new album for the sole purpose of helping to stop 50 make new stuff. :lol:

[HSaabedra]

Kanye is an average lyricist, but he's a damn good producer. Kinda sucks that he puts out some dope beats for Common and not himself at times. =/

LOL presets. Kanye is below average compared to most of the actual producers I know, and it doesn't help his case when he samples everything he can get his hands on and claims it as his own just like Timbaland.

[ryushe]

Kanye is an average lyricist, but he's a damn good producer. Kinda sucks that he puts out some dope beats for Common and not himself at times. =/
I for one thing he's a great producer. So what if he samples, I see that as his gimmick if anything.

LOL presets. Kanye is below average compared to most of the actual producers I know, and it doesn't help his case when he samples everything he can get his hands on and claims it as his own just like Timbaland.
Claims them as his own? Have you ever heard the Behind the Beats vol. 1 and 2 mixtapes?

[Oburi]

I'm not really a hip hop fan, but from what I've heard I think both rappers have little to say and have weak rhymes.. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Haro!]

I don't like 50 at all, and I atleast like Kanye as an artist 60% of the time.

[Hara!]

I never used to like 50 Cent, but he really redeemed himself in the movie King Kong.

[Haro!]

I for one thing he's a great producer. So what if he samples, I see that as his gimmick if anything.

Well if you think about it hip hop was built on sampling so its really not a bad thing in that sense. I do think he doesn't work as well as he should with said samples.

[SonRyu]

I had heard about their little (one sided?) bet that if Kanye's album sold more than 50 Cent's album, 50 Cent would stop making albums. Well, I gotta tell you that 50 is cheating a little, though I don't know if he's aware of it. Members of his G-Unit crew are going around placing preorders for 50's album in multiples of 10 in music stores (though I hope they remember to actually pick them up when it's out).

[Fobb]

A lot of people are claiming that Kanye will outsell 50 this time around, and even though I would like to see it go that way, I highly doubt it will happen.

[Haro!]

I think people who don't like 50 will just buy Kanye's album in the hopes of him beating out 50. I hope that happens.

[Alice Catherine]

I really can't stand rap music at all, but I like Kanye better. Because I'm tired of the little white kids around her who claim they're from Compton but when I ask them where it is they say New Jersey.

So yes, I will probably buy Kanye's album, because he has a BIT more of a better image. And he seems smarter. And I like the beats.

[master terrence]

Most people look forward to retirement... lmao. You have to ask yourself what it is exactly he is retiring from.

I agree that Kanye is a better image and smarter too. If he appears on rolling stones looking like Jesus again, things may turn sour. (That cover just made him look crazy)

[Animematt55]

Anyone else think it is a bit odd that they are releasign on 9/11? marketing at it's best.

[Fobb]

I did. But I didn't give it much thought.

They most likely will buy it solely to put him out of business, but still, Kanye doesn't have a global audience like 50 Cent does. He made a very valid statement saying "Once you leave this country, these rappers don't exist anymore." Which is very true. Globally, 50 Cent is the best known rapper, and I can tell you from experience he has a huge fan base in Pakistan...

Sad to say...but he won't find any help there, lol, you can look for a century and STILL couldn't find any original copy CDs. I tried, trust me, ahah.

[Animematt55]

I did. But I didn't give it much thought.

They most likely will buy it solely to put him out of business, but still, Kanye doesn't have a global audience like 50 Cent does. He made a very valid statement saying "Once you leave this country, these rappers don't exist anymore." Which is very true. Globally, 50 Cent is the best known rapper, and I can tell you from experience he has a huge fan base in Pakistan...

Sad to say...but he won't find any help there, lol, you can look for a century and STILL couldn't find any original copy CDs. I tried, trust me, ahah.

That is sad that such a person is so popular and idolized....
How can a person, that wanted little kids to play his game where you went on murderous rampages, be a good influence?
If this guy claims he is "bullet proof" then people need to learn to shoot better.

[ryushe]

Rolling Stones' cover shoot (http://hiphopst.blogspot.com/2007/09/50-cent-kanye-west-rolling-stone-cover_06.html)

Well, I couldn't wait. So I downloaded both the "Curtis" and "Graduation" (I know, bad boy) albums and listened to both in full two times. I review them later in the day when i get the time.

All I gotta say is "Champion" is the ish

[Soluzar]

My assumption is that 50 ran out of steam in the writing department already, and plans to use this as an opportunity to retire early. Of course he'll still have his production career, so it's all good. You just don't make a promise like that unless what is at stake is something you don't mind losing.

[Leader Desslock]

I won't count this as an epic battle unless they both enter the Thunderdome. If one of 'em doesn't eat the still-beating heart of his opponent live and on stage before the night is over, it's just more marketing crap.

[ryushe]

My assumption is that 50 ran out of steam in the writing department already, and plans to use this as an opportunity to retire early.
True. One thing I noticed with 50 is that he isn't 'hungry' anymore. I'm not a 50 fan but the "Get Rich or Die Tryin" album was really good. I just think he gained everything he wanted already, and it shows in his music. I will admit though, "I Get Money" is sorta catchy. :p

Of course he'll still have his production career, so it's all good. You just don't make a promise like that unless what is at stake is something you don't mind losing.
Again true. I don't care how confident I am at something, If I bet something that I supposedly value so easily, It kinda tells you what he thinks about his career.

Edit: I just remembered, I read somewhere that he took back his statement about retiring if Kanye sells more than him.

Honestly, I think a friendly dual is what hip hop needs right now. The only thing I'm disappointed with is with all this hype about their albums, A great CD went completely under the radar. And yes, I'm talking about "Eardrum"

[Soluzar]

Honestly, I think a friendly dual is what hip hop needs right now.
For sure. I know if it were me, what I'd suggest would be staking the royalties from the first week of sales, or perhaps even more money than that. Something that neither artist really wants to lose, but that won't damage their career too much if they do. It would just be nice to see a situation where success mattered that much more.

[Haro!]

The only thing I'm disappointed with is with all this hype about their albums, A great CD went completely under the radar. And yes, I'm talking about "Eardrum"

Yes but this really isn't surprising.

Yo Talib Kweli, tomorrow Fort Greene Park, Ryushe. BE THERE.

[Fobb]

Eardrum was great, but even if there wasn't an epic battle going on, it wouldn't have gotten as much publicity.


Again, Eardrum was awesome.

[Kai_�‡]

The only thing I'm disappointed with is with all this hype about their albums, A great CD went completely under the radar. And yes, I'm talking about "Eardrum"

Not totally true, It's first week out it grabbed the #2 spot with 60,000 units sold. Now that not TI, Jay, Kanye, or, 50 numbers but for a underground artist like Talib it's not too bad. I just hope folks atleast do the same if not better for LB when the Get back drops in Oct.

[Westlo]

50's best Aftermath era stuff was the series of mixtapes he just kept on dropping one after the other before Get Rich or Die Tryin. He probably put out 4-6 albums worth of material and he was hungry at the time.

I've only skimmed through his latest album and 1 Dr Dre beat has me going :( Best track is I Get Money.. and to think this banger wasn't going to be on the original shipping date. His Timberlake song is flopping commercially by their standards though I'm sure he will release the Akon track so he's guarantee'd to have at least 1 big hit this album.

As for the "contest", Dej Jam owned by Universal, Interscope owned by universal, heaps of idiots wanting to buy their "heroes" cd so their hero wins, it's just a marketing plan for both artists... lol.

Kanyes cd is fire, gave it a spin in the ride last night, last 3 tracks are the highlight. Thank god he made his beats more simplistic, on Late Registration he just went overboard with trying to make the beats complex, best example being the track with Nas. Sometimes less is more and it's best to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

As for Talib he probably deserved to go under the radar after his last few cds.

[ryushe]

Kanyes cd is fire, gave it a spin in the ride last night, last 3 tracks are the highlight. Thank god he made his beats more simplistic, on Late Registration he just went overboard with trying to make the beats complex, best example being the track with Nas. Sometimes less is more and it's best to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
Really? I honestly thought this was Kanye's weakest album. It's not bad, But Where are the skits? the school/graduation theme? Where's "Bittersweet"? That said, This albums is still great.

There are a lot of good songs like "Champion", "Good Life", "Homecoming" (Even thought I prefer the original, "Home" a little more) and "Flashing Lights". "I Wonder", "Drunk And Hot Girls" were really 'meh' and I was really disappointed with "Barry Bonds". As a Lil' Wayne fan I was surprised how uninterested and soft he went on that track, Not even him alone, Kanye himself sounded like he was board.

Even thought it doesn't rank up with "Late Registration" and nowhere near as good as "College Dropout" It's still a good album. Another thing that bothered me was the amount of songs on it, 13? WTH Kan-yeze. All in all, Still worth the money.

Honestly, I have to give 50's album another spin before I give it a final judgment. But from the way it's going, Nothings really gonna change. (Damn Emm, I was excited to see you on a song, but whats with all that nasty **** you was saying man. Damn)

Edit: And yes Van, You right about "I Get Money" as the best song on the album. And that's not saying to much.

BTW, everyone remember November 20th. the future of Hip-Hop is coming out with his second album.

[Chousho]

Yeah, I thought I heard this. I honestly have no idea how 50 got this far (well, I would say Em helped a bit). Am I the only one who thinks he's a bit monotone and doesn't exactly have too much rhythm? I understand he's been shot, but why doesn't his music relate a little bit more? He could have had some really good material about going through struggles to get where he is (being in the public's eye). Granted, I haven't heard all of his stuff, so if he has, let me know as I'd like to hear.

Kanye, I think, has some decent stuff. He's not super talented, but he collabs with a bunch of other artists to, at least, put out some interesting stuff. Plus, he's done stuff with Teriyaki Boyz, and that's always cool! Speaking of that, it'd be cool if they were in some US artists' work. Anyone have any info if they are?

[Westlo]

No Eminem did not make 50 Cent, 50 Cent made 50 Cent. Eminem did probably 1000% more for Obie Trice and D12 than he did for 50 Cent and the difference in album sales between 50 and them are massive.

50 Cent was the one smart enough to realize he was going nowhere with Nas and the Bravehearts, 50 Cent was the one who flooded the streets with mixtape after mixtape to build up a buzz and get signed by Aftermath, 50 Cent was the one who took a personal fued with Ja Rule to national attention, 50 Cent is the one who selected great Dre beats (Em's selection of Dre beats generally sucks) and 50's the one who came up with the hooks that propelled him to diamond status worldwide.

50's best song ever is still Ghetto Quaran from the unreleased Power of the Dollar album that got canceled after he got shot up.

Really? I honestly thought this was Kanye's weakest album. It's not bad, But Where are the skits? the school/graduation theme? Where's "Bittersweet"? That said, This albums is still great.

I don't miss the skits because they held little replay value and became instant skips avery quickly. And Bittersweet is on my copy ;)

[ryushe]

I don't miss the skits because they held little replay value and became instant skips avery quickly. And Bittersweet is on my copy ;)
Really? What version do you have, The iTunes pre-oreder one? The only bonus track I have on mine is "Can't Tell Me Nothing" (Remix).

Van let me ask you something. I don't know if it's just me, But did the flow of Graduation not seem to right. Everything was just placed all over the place imho. If I had any say, "Champion" would have been the intro, followed by "Good Morning" Then a skit going into "Can't Tell Me Nothing", Then "Everything I Am". I would have made "I Wonder" and "Good Life" towards the ending and just taken out "Barry Bonds".

I just hope they put "Good Night" on final cut of the U.S album. It seems kinda weird to end it with "Big Brother" (Another hot song).

[ecchi]

For some reason I don't know why I never heard of Kanye West until just earlier this week.

[Fobb]

BTW, everyone remember November 20th. the future of Hip-Hop is coming out with his second album.

Who would that be exactly?

EDIT: Not Lupe is it?

[Westlo]

If it's Lupe I hope his second album is a lot better than his first or he's just another Joe Buddens, hot mixtapes, wack albums.

[Fobb]

Whatchu talkin bout foo!? FNL was awesome!

[ryushe]

I actually was talking about Lupe "The future of Hip-Hop" Fiasco, his album "The Cool" is dropping Nov. 20...hopefully. And "Food and Liquor" whack?! I haven't listen to a whole album from start to finish so many times since Jay's "Blueprint" Album.

I'll even dare to say "F&L" was maybe the best Hip Hop album in 7 years...

[Westlo]

FNL was disappointing, his revenge of the nerd mixtapes were much better.

[Ariel Tsuki]

For some reason I don't know why I never heard of Kanye West until just earlier this week.

D: You lived under a rock. How you can forget, "Busk hates black people" two years ago when he was with Mike Myers for that Katrina benefit? It was ALL OVER the place. It was like the punchline of 2005.

But meh...

I do hope that Kanye does win, I can't really say which is the better rapper in terms of flow, but Kanye wins for having a bit of creativity. 50 Cent is just overblown, I said that then and I still say it now. To this day, I think 50 Cent only got popular because of the hook-up with Dr. Dre and Emninem and that he got shot 9 times. Hell, when the girl version of "Party in Da Club" was better than the original.

But I may be biased with Kanye because I do like some of his raps, but he is bigheaded, for sure. But when the growing unpopularity of commerical gangsta rap (finally....), Kanye got a good shot.

Maybe I want Kanye to win because he sampled Daft Punk.... LMAO. I like Stronger to be honest.

But I heard that a country singer might beat the both of them though...

[HSaabedra]

D: You lived under a rock. How you can forget, "Busk hates black people" two years ago when he was with Mike Myers for that Katrina benefit? It was ALL OVER the place. It was like the punchline of 2005.

This may surprise you, but a lot of people didn't care about the forced interjection of a man who's claim to fame is dropping out of college to pursue a career in music. Unless you pay attention to the entertainment industry, the vast majority of people don't care.

[Westlo]

Eminen did nothing for 50 Cent, after Wanksta/In Da Club (late 03 or 02???) to now 50 Cent has been bigger than Eminem. People seem to think Ems co-sign made 50 into a megastar, if so why not D12 or Obie Trice as well than?

[HSaabedra]

Eminen did nothing for 50 Cent, after Wanksta/In Da Club (late 03 or 02???) to now 50 Cent has been bigger than Eminem. People seem to think Ems co-sign made 50 into a megastar, if so why not D12 or Obie Trice as well than?

D12 and Obie Trice aren't really cut out for the marketing needed to push someone like 50 Cent. 50 Cent is the best promoter out there, and that's what counts in hip hop today.

It doesn't matter if you can write well (Del, El-P, Cannibal Ox), if you can't market yourself and have a following no one cares. Kanye also realized this and that's why he's big, but he took the production route to do so.

[Westlo]

50 Cent is the best promoter out there, and that's what counts in hip hop today.

I agree 100% which is why it's annoying to see people sprout off that Eminem helped "make" him. 50 flooded the streets with mixtapes, 50 saw the buzz that the Jay-Z and Nas fued caused (I don't think either artist has sold more units with an album since Blueprint/Stillmatic) and took his personal fued with Ja Rule public.

Eminem jumped on the mixtape and Ja Rule fued in a "me too" fashion. 50's had more influence on Eminem than the other way around which is probably why Ems last album was the worst of his career... but on the one previous to that he was slipping anyway.

[HSaabedra]

I agree 100% which is why it's annoying to see people sprout off that Eminem helped "make" him. 50 flooded the streets with mixtapes.

This is why record companies don't sign rappers anymore unless they can prove they have a following. Because 50 Cent pushed the game to another level, aspiring rappers are becoming better versed in the business side of things. All Eminem did was open the door for him.

[Haro!]

But I heard that a country singer might beat the both of them though...
Yeah that was pretty funny since he more than likely will do better than both of them.
This may surprise you, but a lot of people didn't care about the forced interjection of a man who's claim to fame is dropping out of college to pursue a career in music. Unless you pay attention to the entertainment industry, the vast majority of people don't care.
Dude anyone who reads the Times knows Kanye.

[ryushe]

Anyone see 106 and park?

[SonRyu]

I don't even know why anyone in the music industry thinks that Kenny Chesney has a chance to out sell either 50 Cent or Kanye. As of 6p tuesday when I left work, my store had sold somewhere around 50 Kanye's, 45 50 Cents, and 0 Chesney's. My store is in eastern Long Island. The stores closer to NYC at the same time had sold 2 - 3 times as many Kanye and 50 Cents as my store, and just as many Chesney's (being 0). Maybe he can out sell the rappers in the mid-western states, but not in any urban areas, where most of the music sales come from.

I did notice though that as for 50 Cent and Kanye, all of the morning traffic was for Kanye (early birds), and the later sales were for 50 Cent (those that sleep in I guess). Almost no one bought both however, it was one or the other.

I couldn't care either way who wins this "battle", it's just good for sales.

[HSaabedra]

I don't even know why anyone in the music industry thinks that Kenny Chesney has a chance to out sell either 50 Cent or Kanye. As of 6p tuesday when I left work, my store had sold somewhere around 50 Kanye's, 45 50 Cents, and 0 Chesney's. My store is in eastern Long Island. The stores closer to NYC at the same time had sold 2 - 3 times as many Kanye and 50 Cents as my store, and just as many Chesney's (being 0). Maybe he can out sell the rappers in the mid-western states, but not in any urban areas, where most of the music sales come from.

I did notice though that as for 50 Cent and Kanye, all of the morning traffic was for Kanye (early birds), and the later sales were for 50 Cent (those that sleep in I guess). Almost no one bought both however, it was one or the other.

I couldn't care either way who wins this "battle", it's just good for sales.

Neither one is going get my money, especially Kanye because he incessantly whines about not getting a fair shot and uses the race card just like Sharpton as a way to excuse his poor attitude. All he needs to do is stop sampling and start using his imagination, and he might actually win.

[Westlo]

Oh no I don't want Kanye to stop sampling, he would probably turn into another Swizz Beats (horrible) if he tryed to make original beats... Kanye isn't a scratch on Just Blaze when it comes to non sampled stuff. Like it or not sampling is a part of hiphop production

Who's got the booklet for Kanyes album? What sample did he use for Homecoming? I know it but I don't!!

[Fobb]

Kanye is in the lead out of the gate!

[Kai_�‡]

Who's got the booklet for Kanyes album? What sample did he use for Homecoming? I know it but I don't!!
None.... As far as I can tell from the information given in the booklet, there are no samples used in Homecoming. Interesting fact though, Mike Dean did just about most if not all mixing for this album.

[Fobb]

Ye beat Fif in first day sales.

[ryushe]

Like it or not sampling is a part of hiphop production

Some people just don't get this simple concept.

I've yet to get Kanye's CD. I have to pick this up later in the night after work or maybe even tomorrow. BTW the "Goodlife" video is crazy good.

Edit:
Neither one is going get my money, especially Kanye because he incessantly whines about not getting a fair shot and uses the race card just like Sharpton as a way to excuse his poor attitude.
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/videos/id.344/title.kanye-west-hot97-interview

If you care, you can watch this and see why he was angry with both the situations.

[ecchi]

According to Wiki, Curtis sold 310,000, and Graduation sold 437,000 as of the 12th. I have a feeling...

[Westlo]

Hmm didnt Kanyes last album sell around 600k first week should overtake that with the rest of the week to go... looks like Universals mock Interscope Vs Def Jam battle has worked out well for them.

[Haro!]

Okay good so I'm not the only one that noticed that

[Westlo]

Okay good so I'm not the only one that noticed that

Yeah I've found it pretty hilarious to see fans on both sides fall into Universals hands. Wonder how stupid they will feel if the rumored 50 Cent I Get Money Remix featuring Jay-Z, P Diddy and Kanye West comes out.

[HSaabedra]

LOL @ Kanye's "damage control".

If he makes music to get awards that don't really mean anything, then he needs to get out of the music business.

There are producers and DJs that never get noticed and they do more in sales in one year than "big" artists do in 20.

It's pretty funny that it took him a day to figure out that he screwed himself by picking the suite over the stage. At least he hates pop music as much as I do, which I can respect, but he really needs an attitude adjustment, since there's a reason he's not winning awards. His music is good, his writing is good, and that's all he should focus on.

Sampling in hip hop is dead for the most part since there are no good ideas anymore. Why do you think Dre, Dan the Automator, Roni Size, and other producers take the time to make their own beats? I make my own beats and use different structures besides the standard 4/4 and people like it enough to buy from me.

[Fobb]

From what I know, Stoupe is still going strong w/ the samples.

[ryushe]

There's a saying in the art community that goes like this,

"Good artist borrow, Great artist steal"

So when I think about sampling, I just think about that quote.

[Ariel Tsuki]

There's a saying in the art community that goes like this,

"Good artist borrow, Great artist steal"

So when I think about sampling, I just think about that quote.

But would most sampling would fall in the former than the latter? Unless meaning of "stealing" is like totally pwning the original where the sample is from. In that case, is very rare.

But was I the only one annoyed how the line outside the Virgin Megastore in lower Manhattan basically made a mess from those paper shades that supposed to resemble Kanye's glasses in "Stronger" was everywhere on the sidewalk? Sheesh...

I don't even know why anyone in the music industry thinks that Kenny Chesney has a chance to out sell either 50 Cent or Kanye. As of 6p tuesday when I left work, my store had sold somewhere around 50 Kanye's, 45 50 Cents, and 0 Chesney's. My store is in eastern Long Island. The stores closer to NYC at the same time had sold 2 - 3 times as many Kanye and 50 Cents as my store, and just as many Chesney's (being 0). Maybe he can out sell the rappers in the mid-western states, but not in any urban areas, where most of the music sales come from.

I guess because the craptactular year sales for rap and country's sometime popularity that would get an artist in the Top 10. Of course, the music industry got it wrong since Chesney got 107,000 in record sales so far.