Just got the news: Yangtze River Dolphins--EXTINCT!...

[seba_boi]

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/08/08/yangtze-dolphin.html?ref=rss


:( :( :(
http://www.vhemt.org/baiji.jpg

[Leader Desslock]

*sigh* That is bad news. I mean, I know I can always substitute Bottlenose Dolphins in my recipes, but they'll never taste the same...

[seba_boi]

*sigh* That is bad news. I mean, I know I can always substitute Bottlenose Dolphins in my recipes, but they'll never taste the same...
I always thought you lent a hand in this whole sad affair!... *throws rock at your door*

[The Million Dollar Prons]

We of the PRC (Prons REpublic of China) are deeply saddened and are working around the clock to hide the fact I ate the last living Dolphin in a stew.

[Rain]

Should I apologize in place of my motherland for her insatiable appetite and lax pollution laws? Truthfully, this incident makes me feel utterly ashamed to be half-Chinese. :(

R.I.P. Baiji.

[Midoriko87]

Dang, that's messed up. It was one of only four River Dolphins - all belonging to different families. In the article I read, they were labeled as "functionally extinct." The Three Gorges Dam will kill off any possible survivors. I blame the Giant Panda, what a prick. <_< No No, that's not right. Isn't the Panda's fault for being such a natural attention ***** and River Dolphin Eater (This claim is unsubstantiated but probably true). I WANT YOU, MEI LAN!! OH YEAH!! *Puts Mei Lan in chokehold* Yang Yang in cute Baby-Like Voice: "But Midoriko, we're endangered." YOU WANT SOME OF THIS, TOO, BOY!! "No, sir!!" EXTREME!! :lol: I'll leave now. :(

[PinoyOtaku]

It's unfortunate to hear another species bite the dust. I guess the Three Gorges Dam project wasn't much of a help either. :(

[Delta-Pheonix]

Theres a voice at the back of my head saying "Well done Humanity you've F****ed again!"

I just find it hard to exept that nothing was done about it before it got to this.

[Vaikyuko]

Remind me why I care, ecologists. Besides, just save the DNA from one of the corpses, we can regenerate the species in the future.

[earsofdoom]

Remind me why I care, ecologists. Besides, just save the DNA from one of the corpses, we can regenerate the species in the future.

Becouse species play key parts in ecological Niche's, with the species extinct there is no way to fix it if we find out just how much it will screw everything up. Also it makes humanity look like a disease when we kill off species one by one.

[Midoriko87]

Remind me why I care, ecologists. Besides, just save the DNA from one of the corpses, we can regenerate the species in the future.

Hmm, I was thinkin' somethin' like that, and then I was all, "That sounds stupid." But, let's say we somehow pull this off, and grow our CRDs in the womb of some kind of Magical Creature... such as a Unicorn. What then? You expect us to raise these dolphins in our Jacuzzi Hot Tubs?!! Sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That'll definitely put a damper on these Good Members' sexy parties... some sexier than others (and some not so sexy). What about the Georgia Aquarium, Midoriko? *Sigh* Does the name "Whale Shark" ring a bell? :rolleyes: This post is a mixture of Seriousness and Midorikoness.

[SlackerDude]

^Midoriko, I've finally decided I want to see a picture of you. :)

(sorry for spamming everyone, but no matter how hard I think, I just don't have an opinion on the matter)

[Vaikyuko]

Becouse species play key parts in ecological Niche's, with the species extinct there is no way to fix it if we find out just how much it will screw everything up. Also it makes humanity look like a disease when we kill off species one by one.

I'm aware of all that, but despite it, I still don't care. Color me callous and cruel, but I believe first and foremost in two things: development of civilization (ie, city is better than town is better than village is better than house, etc), and in survival of the fittest. Nuts to everything else.

[Delta-Pheonix]

I'm aware of all that, but despite it, I still don't care. Color me callous and cruel, but I believe first and foremost in two things: development of civilization (ie, city is better than town is better than village is better than house, etc), and in survival of the fittest. Nuts to everything else.

But where do we stop? when earth is a poison choked hive planet outside of which nothing can live because what we did?

[Bernard_Monsha]

Becouse species play key parts in ecological Niche's, with the species extinct there is no way to fix it if we find out just how much it will screw everything up. Also it makes humanity look like a disease when we kill off species one by one.

Evidently it was not that key, it was an overspecialized and was made extinct when it's environment changed. It happened to 99.999999% of all animals on the Earth. People seem to forget that animal life is not static and this type of animal had a good run of it but was unable to adapt something even the slow manatee and dugong was able to do.

[Old Ape Face]

Why not just clone it and say JK :P

[Midoriko87]

Wow, I've never seen such a display of Anti-Cute-Dolphinism in my life!! Overspecialized, indeed!! Let's see what happens when whatever animal those two or three CRDs were keeping at bay start to increase their numbers. Oh! Save us River Dolphins!! It'll be too late, then!! :angry: :uhh:

Some people just can't see the Beauty in a Non-Extinct River Dolphin. Hmm, what a sad, pitiful existence. :lol: Oh, and until we rid ourselves of dorks, homeless persons (well, maybe only the Geek Monsters), sissies, Girly Men, and my favourite, pseudo-intellectuals, no has the right to apply the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" to human beings.

[Old Ape Face]

Wow, I've never seen such a display of Anti-Cute-Dolphinism in my life!! Overspecialized, indeed!! Let's see what happens when whatever animal those two or three CRDs were keeping at bay start to increase their numbers. Oh! Save us River Dolphins!! It'll be too late, then!! :angry: :uhh:

Some people just can't see the Beauty in a Non-Extinct River Dolphin. Hmm, what a sad, pitiful existence. :lol: Oh, and until we rid ourselves of dorks, homeless persons (well, maybe only the Geek Monsters), sissies, Girly Men, and my favourite, pseudo-intellectuals, no has the right to apply the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" to human beings.

Burn the witch to the stake :$%&#!: Devil witch!!!! You'll give away all the democrats secrets. *throws stones at you*.... :P jk

[Vaikyuko]

But where do we stop? when earth is a poison choked hive planet outside of which nothing can live because what we did?

Lol. Humanity is not going to reduce Earth to a completely uninhabitable place, dude. We'd die out too. And much like Bernard mentioned, there's this thing called adaptation. So even if, to take a page out of Mr. Gore's book, we somehow destroyed the planet in some grandiose way that killed a fifth of the population or something...the rest of us would suck it up and adapt. Again, nuts to the animals if they can't do the same.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... tsk, tsk, tsk. that's what you get for being so DAMN tasty.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Wow, I've never seen such a display of Anti-Cute-Dolphinism in my life!! Overspecialized, indeed!! Let's see what happens when whatever animal those two or three CRDs were keeping at bay start to increase their numbers. Oh! Save us River Dolphins!! It'll be too late, then!! :angry: :uhh:

Some people just can't see the Beauty in a Non-Extinct River Dolphin. Hmm, what a sad, pitiful existence. :lol: Oh, and until we rid ourselves of dorks, homeless persons (well, maybe only the Geek Monsters), sissies, Girly Men, and my favourite, pseudo-intellectuals, no has the right to apply the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" to human beings.

Oh, no the Asian river dolphins are much stupider than their American cousins which have learned to avoid nets and boats. Evolution is served by the fact that Botos have figured to stay away from noisy boats and that nets will trap them, unlike their special needs Chinese and Indian cousins.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Oh, no the Asian river dolphins are much stupider than their American cousins which have learned to avoid nets and boats. Evolution is served by the fact that Botos have figured to stay away from noisy boats and that nets will trap them, unlike their special needs Chinese and Indian cousins.

...ooh. that's a burn, monsha. but hey. you do have a point. it is, after all, survival of the fittest (and not to mention, the smartest). can't blame em if the chinese use stealth boats and cloaking.

[Bernard_Monsha]

...ooh. that's a burn, monsha. but hey. you do have a point. it is, after all, survival of the fittest (and not to mention, the smartest). can't blame em if the chinese use stealth boats and cloaking.

Yeah but the Brazillian's have Carnival to tempt the Botos with plus the Amazon has the candirú.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Yeah but the Brazillian's have Carnival to tempt the Botos with plus the Amazon has the candirú.

...hmmm. i'd love to google/wiki those terms, but i'm too lazy. i'm gonna wait till someone posts a link.

[Midoriko87]

...ooh. that's a burn, monsha. but hey. you do have a point. it is, after all, survival of the fittest (and not to mention, the smartest). can't blame em if the chinese use stealth boats and cloaking.

No No, that is not a "burn." Cling to your lies of fluid exchange!! :angry: Now, I'm not one to call people alcoholics, but I do believe someone has been taking a few swigs of the Ol' Al-Chy-Hol. Firstly, their "American cousin," Monsha? Since when is Brazil part of America? Anything out of these here 48 States (Sorry, Hawaii/Alaska) cannot be considered "American." That alone trashes your "credibility." Secondly, if I've learned anything from browsing through travel catalogs, it's that the Amazon's water are as fresh as a baby's bottom (PEDOPHILE!!). Nothing in China is that fresh (no offense to Mel's Chinese half)!! Finally, Mr. Marine Biologist, you prove to me that the China Dolphin is stupider than the Brazilian one. I want to see brain scans. Plus, who's to say that Chinese boats and fishing nets aren't in some kind of stealth mode?

[Lone Signal]

Isn't Brazil in South America?

[Sendo Takeshi]

All I have to say is this: When do we eat? I could sure go for some spicy tuna rolls right now.

[Midoriko87]

Isn't Brazil in South America?

Yes, it is. But, "American" was claimed by the U.S. You ever hear a Canadien(ne) referred to as an American? Or a Mexican?

[Lone Signal]

Um, my common sense said 'American' in that particular context is not the American you are pointing towards.
Why are you using that as an element in your debate, anyway?

[Midoriko87]

Um, my common sense said 'American' in that particular context is not the American you are pointing towards.
Why are you using that as an element in your debate, anyway?

:unsure: I think you're kinda-sorta missing the point here... You'll understand soon enough.

[Lone Signal]

That saying Brazil being a part of the Americas trashes all credibility?

[Bernard_Monsha]

No No, that is not a "burn." Cling to your lies of fluid exchange!! :angry: Now, I'm not one to call people alcoholics, but I do believe someone has been taking a few swigs of the Ol' Al-Chy-Hol. Firstly, their "American cousin," Monsha? Since when is Brazil part of America? Anything out of these here 48 States (Sorry, Hawaii/Alaska) cannot be considered "American." That alone trashes your "credibility." Secondly, if I've learned anything from browsing through travel catalogs, it's that the Amazon's water are as fresh as a baby's bottom (PEDOPHILE!!). Nothing in China is that fresh (no offense to Mel's Chinese half)!! Finally, Mr. Marine Biologist, you prove to me that the China Dolphin is stupider than the Brazilian one. I want to see brain scans. Plus, who's to say that Chinese boats and fishing nets aren't in some kind of stealth mode?


So what you are saying is the baiji is a 20million year old evolutionary dead end that is no were near as adaptable as it's more modern and smarter cousins the boto and tucxi. Another thing, New World monkeys > Old World monkeys.

Major news outlets are reporting that after 20 million years, Baiji (Yangtze River Dolphin) are now officially extinct. This is apparently actually old news; it was announced on a Baiji conservation website in December of last year. One outlet, though, is claiming they may not quite be completely dead yet. The same scientist that filed the report leading the the declaration of extinction is still hopeful: '"This is only one survey and...you can't have a sample in a survey, so you cannot say the baiji all is gone by the result of only one survey," he said. "For example, there is some side channels or some tributaries [where] we cannot go because of a restriction of navigation rules, and also we don't survey during the night-time so we may miss some animals in the Yangtze River." Professor Ding says based on anecdotal evidence, he remains confident the dolphins are still out there. "I'm pretty much sure there are a few of them left somewhere in the Yangtze River," he said. "I keep receiving reports from fishermen, they say they saw a couple of baiji somewhere, sometime."'"

[Ikari Warrior]

Bernard is seriously the only man who can make me laugh at an animal's permanent demise.

[Leader Desslock]

Perhaps these dolphins are just the first to leave Earth before the Vogons arrive. I'll have to ask a mouse, the next time I see one.

[Vaikyuko]

In that case, I'm rather glad I keep a few extra towels around the house. It'll be rather difficult, since I'm not a skilled hitchhiker, but you might see me on one of the Vogon ships, eh?

[Bernard_Monsha]

Perhaps these dolphins are just the first to leave Earth before the Vogons arrive. I'll have to ask a mouse, the next time I see one.

No these would be the kind of dolphins the Vogons would catch and sit on breaking their backs. No use as transportation but the Vogons would sit on them anyway.

[Midoriko87]

So what you are saying is the baiji is a 20million year old evolutionary dead end that is no were near as adaptable as it's more modern and smarter cousins the boto and tucxi.

Darn you, Monsha!! I tire of your fits and Crack binges!!

*Sigh* Simply because an animal is more hip and happening or "modern," it doesn't mean it's "better adapted" or "smarter." Crocodiles, pour example, outlived the dinosaurs and smarter than your average S-Mod. Human beings are the Devil's Ding Dong, I'll remind you. You people (dumb humans) have the one ability no other animal possesses, that is, you bastards don't have to "adapt to" everything; YOU ADAPT IT!! And, in doing so, you end up muckin' up innocent Chinese River Dolphins!! That's not fair!! Look what your cats have done to...to...Australia, I think... You freaks are Ruiners!! WHY YOU NO DIE?!! :angry: 2010, Loser!! 2010!!

Another thing, New World monkeys > Old World monkeys.

Hmm, you know, if I didn't know any better, I'd think that was some kind of racist analogy. ;) Ha! Can your precious New World Monkey disembowel a man or rip his arms off? Didn't you see that "The Future Is Wild" thing on Animal Planet? Baboons are the Future!! At least, I think those were the descendants of baboons... No, they were probably the descendants of New World Monkeys who had evolved to look like baboons... DEUCE!! Well, I'm still right. Their New World Monkey bodies couldn't hold up, eh? Of course, that was just a scenario. Who knows what the Future holds (Invading Aliens of 2010).

[Delta-Pheonix]

In that case, I'm rather glad I keep a few extra towels around the house. It'll be rather difficult, since I'm not a skilled hitchhiker, but you might see me on one of the Vogon ships, eh?

Remember whatever you do don't panic!

[Meson]

Always sad to see a species go. But evolution demands sacrifice, survival of the best adapted and all that (fitest is missleading).

[Bernard_Monsha]

Darn you, Monsha!! I tire of your fits and Crack binges!!

*Sigh* Simply because an animal is more hip and happening or "modern," it doesn't mean it's "better adapted" or "smarter." Crocodiles, pour example, outlived the dinosaurs and smarter than your average S-Mod. Human beings are the Devil's Ding Dong, I'll remind you. You people (dumb humans) have the one ability no other animal possesses, that is, you bastards don't have to "adapt to" everything; YOU ADAPT IT!! And, in doing so, you end up muckin' up innocent Chinese River Dolphins!! That's not fair!! Look what your cats have done to...to...Australia, I think... You freaks are Ruiners!! WHY YOU NO DIE?!! :angry: 2010, Loser!! 2010!!

What are you talking about i had Dino-Birds and waffles last night!


Hmm, you know, if I didn't know any better, I'd think that was some kind of racist analogy. ;) Ha! Can your precious New World Monkey disembowel a man or rip his arms off? Didn't you see that "The Future Is Wild" thing on Animal Planet? Baboons are the Future!! At least, I think those were the descendants of baboons... No, they were probably the descendants of New World Monkeys who had evolved to look like baboons... DEUCE!! Well, I'm still right. Their New World Monkey bodies couldn't hold up, eh? Of course, that was just a scenario. Who knows what the Future holds (Invading Aliens of 2010).

New World monkeys use tools and know how to dry roast nuts.

I remember that show with the giant polar ferret, squidaphant, and the fish-bird. Quit possibly the worst show they have shown outside of Pet Psychic with the Llama who wants a hat and ascott to be a movie star.

[Midoriko87]

I remember that show with the giant polar ferret, squidaphant, and the fish-bird. Quit possibly the worst show they have shown outside of Pet Psychic with the Llama who wants a hat and ascott to be a movie star.

I think Animal Planet's Imagineers know more about the Future than you, Bernard. :rolleyes: Octopi are the FUTURE!!

[Bernard_Monsha]

I think Animal Planet's Imagineers know more about the Future than you, Bernard. :rolleyes: Octopi are great with pesto on pasta!!


I bet the Pet-Psychic told them that in a reading she did for the Planets Funniest Animals.

Fixed your cephalopod quote ;)

[Magami No ER]

^I'm more angered that the "documentary" that had me pining for real life dragon fossils....only to be treated to a CG ******** fest.
Too bad for the baiji, I knew of this when I read the article concerning the conference.
But come on. If this animal was a shark, no one would care nearly as much.

[Neo0tak0n]

I'm aware of all that, but despite it, I still don't care. Color me callous and cruel, but I believe first and foremost in two things: development of civilization (ie, city is better than town is better than village is better than house, etc), and in survival of the fittest. Nuts to everything else.

If the development of civilization is not sustainable (which it isn't) then we have very low fitness. The fitness of the human species has dropped since the advent of agriculture and civilization. If your body is adapting to civilization then that is very bad. Civilizations are not and will never be permanent. The only way technology will increase our overall fitness is if we take to space. And I'm talkin interstellar travel, not shoot a robot to mars.

[Suki]

T__________T Poor dolphins. D:

[GreatNekoKoneko]

T__________T Poor dolphins. D:

...wow. i didn't know you cared...

anyway, so i was having this delicious "tuna" salad sandwich...

[Hara!]

This thread isn´t even a Slowpoke. It´s a goddamn Regigigas.

[CrossboneGundam]

It's disgusting, as usual. But not surprising, considering this is a country full of people who think snorting a tiger's dong will give them an erection, and that it's fine to eradicate an entire species for the sake of a boner.

Remind me why I care, ecologists. Besides, just save the DNA from one of the corpses, we can regenerate the species in the future.

Which isn't possible. Stop watching Jurassic Park and acting like you're an expert on genetics because of it.


I'm aware of all that, but despite it, I still don't care. Color me callous and cruel, but I believe first and foremost in two things: development of civilization (ie, city is better than town is better than village is better than house, etc), and in survival of the fittest. Nuts to everything else.

I'm coloring you ignorant, arrogant and downright stupid. I can't believe I actually had a shred of respect for you at one time, wow.

Don't you dare even mention "survival of the fittest" when you clearly don't understand even the basics of the theory of evolution, just like your robber-baron compatriots from the Gilded Age.

Let me guess, you think you can use your magical DNA genius that you got from watching Jurassic Park to make humans able to photosynthesize the sun's energy into carbohydrates and breathe carbon dioxide?

So you're saying everything on earth should be paved over, because you think that's better, in spite of the fact that we wouldn't exist without the world you want to destroy, and we're dependant on it for survival. Yeah, that's brilliant.

Somehow I don't imagine you'd even be capable of surviving without modern amenities and technology(as much as it disgusts me to think we have a common ancestor,) which makes your comments and bragging all the more insulting to our species. Since you're advocating the destruction of the world to which you owe everything, you might as well kill your own parents. That way you wouldn't be a hypocrite, at least.

Edit: I just found a nice picture of Treize's dream world, unfortunately it's not all paved over with asphalt and concrete for no reason and there are living plants present, so that must be like sand in the vagina for him, but still.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9489/bisonskullpile2cca1870mt3.png

Evidently it was not that key, it was an overspecialized and was made extinct when it's environment changed. It happened to 99.999999% of all animals on the Earth. People seem to forget that animal life is not static and this type of animal had a good run of it but was unable to adapt something even the slow manatee and dugong was able to do.

Manatees haven't adapted to anything, people just choose not to slaughter them mindlessly because we find them cute and they don't taste good.

And those 99.999999% of animals weren't slaughtered on a genocidal scale by a single species who killed them off for no good reason, just sheer laziness.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Crossbone Gundam sure is good at posting.

[Rain]

Lol. Humanity is not going to reduce Earth to a completely uninhabitable place, dude. We'd die out too.

Well, "uninhabitable" is synonymous with "unsustainable," and in this case, the Earth's sustainability is rapidly deteriorating (species extinctions affect microecosystems and macroecosystems alike). Honestly, I don't see this rapid deterioration of the Earth slowing down any time soon, I only see it speeding up in the years to come. There is no limit to how much damage we, humans, can inflict on the Earth.

Anyway, I strongly suggest you read some Millennium Ecosystem Assessment reports for your own good: http://www.millenniumassessment.org/en/Global.aspx.


And much like Bernard mentioned, there's this thing called adaptation. So even if, to take a page out of Mr. Gore's book, we somehow destroyed the planet in some grandiose way that killed a fifth of the population or something...the rest of us would suck it up and adapt. Again, nuts to the animals if they can't do the same.

Apparently, adaptation happens overnight.

[Tidusauron12]

*sighs... this is in order*

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!! *crappy retro. music/afros*

[Delta-Pheonix]

It's disgusting, as usual. But not surprising, considering this is a country full of people who think snorting a tiger's dong will give them an erection, and that it's fine to eradicate an entire species for the sake of a boner.



Which isn't possible. Stop watching Jurassic Park and acting like you're an expert on genetics because of it.



I'm coloring you ignorant, arrogant and downright stupid. I can't believe I actually had a shred of respect for you at one time, wow.

Don't you dare even mention "survival of the fittest" when you clearly don't understand even the basics of the theory of evolution, just like your robber-baron compatriots from the Gilded Age.

Let me guess, you think you can use your magical DNA genius that you got from watching Jurassic Park to make humans able to photosynthesize the sun's energy into carbohydrates and breathe carbon dioxide?

So you're saying everything on earth should be paved over, because you think that's better, in spite of the fact that we wouldn't exist without the world you want to destroy, and we're dependant on it for survival. Yeah, that's brilliant.

Somehow I don't imagine you'd even be capable of surviving without modern amenities and technology(as much as it disgusts me to think we have a common ancestor,) which makes your comments and bragging all the more insulting to our species. Since you're advocating the destruction of the world to which you owe everything, you might as well kill your own parents. That way you wouldn't be a hypocrite, at least.

Edit: I just found a nice picture of Treize's dream world, unfortunately it's not all paved over with asphalt and concrete for no reason and there are living plants present, so that must be like sand in the vagina for him, but still.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9489/bisonskullpile2cca1870mt3.png



Manatees haven't adapted to anything, people just choose not to slaughter them mindlessly because we find them cute and they don't taste good.

And those 99.999999% of animals weren't slaughtered on a genocidal scale by a single species who killed them off for no good reason, just sheer laziness.

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/08/84/23458408.jpg

[seba_boi]

Crossbone Gundam sure is good at posting.Hmmm, yes.... I kind of gathered that...

[Vaikyuko]

That bit about the DNA was a joke, but okay. And when did I say I wanted to destroy everything the Earth is and pave it all over? I said I believe in the advancement of civilization, not the building of friggin' Coruscant from Star Wars. I happen to like plants and forests and such, just because I also happen to like urban environs doesn't mean I'm an anti-eco Nazi. And genocide of specific species, by one race or by environmental phenomenon (be they natural or caused by specific species) still qualifies for survival of the fittest.

That said, I don't really see the point of going all out to attack an opinion ecologist-style. Troll harder, Crossbone.

@Rain: And if the Earth fails to sustain us, we die. Nuts to us too. The planet would go on and eventually restore itself, unless we completely destroyed it somehow, which is improbable to the extreme. As for adaptation, no, it doesn't happen overnight. But last I checked, putting on a raincoat qualifies as adapting to your environment (to a certain extent, anyway). Do the math and voila.

Anyway, I'm surprised I got such a reaction from you guys. I mean, it's not like I said Asians were superbeings or something.

[earsofdoom]

That bit about the DNA was a joke, but okay. And when did I say I wanted to destroy everything the Earth is and pave it all over? I said I believe in the advancement of civilization, not the building of friggin' Coruscant from Star Wars. I happen to like plants and forests and such, just because I also happen to like urban environs doesn't mean I'm an anti-eco Nazi. And genocide of specific species, by one race or by environmental phenomenon (be they natural or caused by specific species) still qualifies for survival of the fittest.



I disagree, by that definition hitler exterminateing jews would be considered an attempted "survival of the fittest".

[Soluzar]

I disagree, by that definition Hitler exterminateing Jews would be considered an attempted "survival of the fittest".
Hitler only tried to exterminate the Jews. He tried quite hard, and yet the Jews survived. Thus proving that they are no more or less "the fittest" than any other race of humans. They did survive, and proved that it's a hell of a lot harder to exterminate them than Hitler wanted to believe. As any surviving member of that generation, and they will probably say how proud they are of the fact that the race survived despite the best efforts of the Nazi regime. It's a grim and rather sorrowful kind of pride, but the Jews who lived through those times know that they fought damned hard for survival.

That's not a comment on Treize's argument one way or another, it's just a perspective on your counter-argument.

[Vaikyuko]

I disagree, by that definition hitler exterminateing jews would be considered an attempted "survival of the fittest".

Not necessarily. When I said one race exterminating another, I wasn't referring to race as is discussed by humans, but species. In the simplest terms, what Hitler did was a self-destructive act, lashing out at his own species through perceived faults and/or differences. However, he failed, and the human race continued. It could be argued that if he had succeeded, he would have eventually begun a chain reaction that would destroy a much larger portion of the human race, but among the multiple peoples Hitler persecuted, quite a few survived. As a result, that self-destructive "gene", as it were (if one was to think of humanity as one organism) failed in its purpose and thusly was eliminated from the system. That's not to say racism or genocidal tendencies have been eliminated from humanity altogether, I'm just giving an example.

Am I making sense? It's hard to put it into words, since I haven't discussed this sort of thing in a long time.

[Soluzar]

It's also worth noting that even if the whole Semetic population of planet earth died tomorrow, that would not count as an extinct species. They are part of the same homo sapiens species as all the rest of us. It's rather different from the extinction of a species of dolphins, which leaves no surviving members of that species. I'm sure some would want to promulgate the notion that there is more than one human species, but in reality it would be nothing more than racist propaganda. All the races are within the range of variation of the human species.

[Tidusauron12]

It's also worth noting that even if the whole Semetic population of planet earth died tomorrow, that would not count as an extinct species. They are part of the same homo sapiens species as all the rest of us. It's rather different from the extinction of a species of dolphins, which leaves no surviving members of that species. I'm sure some would want to promulgate the notion that there is more than one human species, but in reality it would be nothing more than racist propaganda. All the races are within the range of variation of the human species.

Yep, reproduction, no matter what race our partner is, that's the truth in the pudding right there.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Manatees haven't adapted to anything, people just choose not to slaughter them mindlessly because we find them cute and they don't taste good.

And those 99.999999% of animals weren't slaughtered on a genocidal scale by a single species who killed them off for no good reason, just sheer laziness.

No, manatees hear a boat and move, they just move too slow when people speed in their boats. They are actually some in the Houston ship channel amazingly they avoid giant ships moving up and down the channel. Something the Baiji seemed incapable of.

How is it lazy to kill off an entire species? It took a lot of work to kill off the Passenger Pigeons, and I sure as hell don't here people lamenting the loss of the Rocky Mountain Locust.

[earsofdoom]

How is it lazy to kill off an entire species? It took a lot of work to kill off the Passenger Pigeons, and I sure as hell don't here people lamenting the loss of the Rocky Mountain Locust.

I can't see why many peaple would due to locust's damaging farmers crops, which is a shame though since im sure the Rocky Mountain Locust likely did more then this. (perhaps it was food for another species that helped keep farms free from rodents, i dunno since i haven't really looked very deeply into the issue)

[Bernard_Monsha]

Actually it's demise is the reason why America and Canada are the bread boxe of the world. North America is the only continent that is locust free.

[Midoriko87]

Hitler only tried to exterminate the Jews. He tried quite hard, and yet the Jews survived. Thus proving that they are no more or less "the fittest" than any other race of humans. They did survive, and proved that it's a hell of a lot harder to exterminate them than Hitler wanted to believe. As any surviving member of that generation, and they will probably say how proud they are of the fact that the race survived despite the best efforts of the Nazi regime. It's a grim and rather sorrowful kind of pride, but the Jews who lived through those times know that they fought damned hard for survival.

Well, actually, if the Jews had somehow acquired Superpowers and saved themselves, that'd be closer to "Survival of the Fittest." If other nations hadn't come into the picture, I'm sure the persons who lived through that ordeal wouldn't have survived. There's a lot of abuse of the phrase "Survival of the Fittest," here. I blame Social Darwinism.

Not necessarily. When I said one race exterminating another, I wasn't referring to race as is discussed by humans, but species.

But that'd be incorrect. Survival of the Fittest isn't separate species or families or classes or orders or whatever pitted against one another. It's the driving force which guarantees the stronger members of a species will surpass/dominate their siblings, cousins, that guy over there and pass on their genes.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...so. is anybody up for some deliciously roasted River Dolphin? limited time, people...

[Hara!]

ITT: BAWWWWWWWWW

A species of a few hundred ugly dolphins in a crappy river are dead. I have no idea how I will ever survive.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

This is all humanity`s fault..

[Vaikyuko]

ITT: BAWWWWWWWWW

A species of a few hundred ugly dolphins in a crappy river are dead. I have no idea how I will ever survive.

THREAD OVER. :lol:

[Haro!]

I thought htey were declared extinct for a while now. Its sad and I think those dolphins looked cool. Oh were those the ones that were pink also?

[Magami No ER]

Those would be South American as well.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.amersol.edu.pe/ms/7th/7block/jungle_research/new_cards/14/pinkdolphin.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amersol.edu.pe/ms/7th/7block/jungle_research/new_cards/14/report14hm.html&h=549&w=789&sz=85&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=gLkzRblNuDaxhM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpink%2Briver%2Bdolphins%26s vnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3D firefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3D4dm%26sa%3DN

[Bernard_Monsha]

^

I.E. the ones smart enough to avoid boats and nets.

[CrossboneGundam]

That bit about the DNA was a joke, but okay. And when did I say I wanted to destroy everything the Earth is and pave it all over? I said I believe in the advancement of civilization, not the building of friggin' Coruscant from Star Wars. I happen to like plants and forests and such, just because I also happen to like urban environs doesn't mean I'm an anti-eco Nazi. And genocide of specific species, by one race or by environmental phenomenon (be they natural or caused by specific species) still qualifies for survival of the fittest.

That said, I don't really see the point of going all out to attack an opinion ecologist-style. Troll harder, Crossbone.

@Rain: And if the Earth fails to sustain us, we die. Nuts to us too. The planet would go on and eventually restore itself, unless we completely destroyed it somehow, which is improbable to the extreme. As for adaptation, no, it doesn't happen overnight. But last I checked, putting on a raincoat qualifies as adapting to your environment (to a certain extent, anyway). Do the math and voila.

Anyway, I'm surprised I got such a reaction from you guys. I mean, it's not like I said Asians were superbeings or something.


"Survival of the fittest" isn't an excuse to go around killing everything you see. It's an explanation in retrospect for the reasons why "x" species or individuals or traits survived and why "y" didn't. I realize you don't understand or care about the concept of ecosystems, but those of us with "foresight" appreciate that complex biological systems can and are disrupted or derailed by species extinction and can have chain reactions that you wouldn't care about anyway.

And your "progress of civilization" philosophy toward life is exactly the same as the 19th century white american philosophy toward waging war on the "red menace" and forcing them onto reservations and trying to destroy every trace of their languages and cultures. Combined with your "cities are better than towns are better than villages" line, it's pretty obvious you think western civilization is "superior" to all other cultures, so it's no stretch to assume you think it should be forcefully imposed everywhere.

You're admitting that adaptations don't happen overnight, yet you still chide these dolphins for not being supernaturally adaptable?

You can't expect to apply human standards of adaptation to all other animals, that's just another excuse to go on a meaningless killing spree.

And you claim to like nature, but you're posting asking why you should give a crap that an entire species of mammal with a brain larger than ours and a system of communication that can be more likened to a language than any other outside of humanity went extinct? You're not exactly proving you like nature, here. You sound more like you hate it.

No, manatees hear a boat and move, they just move too slow when people speed in their boats. They are actually some in the Houston ship channel amazingly they avoid giant ships moving up and down the channel. Something the Baiji seemed incapable of.

How is it lazy to kill off an entire species? It took a lot of work to kill off the Passenger Pigeons, and I sure as hell don't here people lamenting the loss of the Rocky Mountain Locust.

I never said it was lazy to kill off any given species, I said it was lazy to dump all your waste into the nearest body of water and assume that it'll magically be clean enough for life to survive in or to swim in.

And what does a locust have to do with this? I didn't say people everywhere are lamenting every extinction ever. I'm saying people shouldn't sit around and continue to kill off species just because they're collateral damage in the quest for more profits and then justify it with "survival of the fittest" schtick that the gilded age robber barons used to justify their abuse of workers and inhumane, unhealthy, unsafe working conditions with terrible wages.

[Vaikyuko]

Genocide of specific species as survival of the fittest =/= justification for killing whatever we please. That said, you really need to hop off your high horse. You're not the only one who knows something about this stuff. While I profess I'm probably nowhere near as learned (or interested, for that matter) in this field when compared to you, I'm not an idiot who thinks trees breathe cement or something stupid like that. As for foresight in relation to ecological systems: Well, excuuuuuuse me, Princess. Just because I might not be able to draw a complex, pretty picture of how one species might affect a billion others, doesn't mean I don't care. Besides, if it's so important that with one species dying it'll destroy the entire ecosystem, it's not really going to matter when it dies anyway (I'm aware that wasn't what you were saying, but I felt like typing it anyway).

When did I say Western civilization is superior to any other, or should be imposed on anyone? You're putting words in my mouth. Destroying any particular nation or peoples isn't exactly high on my list of priorities either, buddy. Wishing for progress =/= destroying people, cultures, and etc to achieve that progress (and if one did so, that would be counterproductive to progress anyway). As for adaptation...

These dolphins can't adapt overnight, no. But wait, I'm applying human standards of adaptation? Oh, I see. But...you said they have bigger brains than we do and a language system best described as close to our own. So then, it's impossible for them to tell one another something like "oh, bad river" and swim upstream, downstream, anystream to get away from it? I'd think not. If they're as smart as you say they are, they wouldn't just up and die from people shoving crap in their habitat. They'd work around it.

And regarding the locust comments you had: Firstly, what are we supposed to do about those dolphins? Not like they lived anywhere near us, so it means diddly squat what we say or do about it anyway, because it's another nation. Which, according to you, we should not interfere with governmentally, culturally, racially, etc, anyway. Whoops, there went that.

[Neo0tak0n]

Wishing for progress =/= destroying people, cultures, and etc to achieve that progress (and if one did so, that would be counterproductive to progress anyway).


Civilizations progress and form only by destroying or assimilating other cultures. Non-aggressive cultures are selected against by aggressive cultures.

[Ikari Warrior]

Isn't Darwinism some 100 years out of date anyway?

[Neo0tak0n]

natural selection is not out of date

[Evil_Koala]

I blame Japan. Go on youtube and search "Japan Dolphin Slaughter". It's awful.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Oh hey, EK is back.

[Evil_Koala]

Oh hey, EK is back.

Yes, your god has returned.

[Evil_Koala]

No, unless if you are one of those creationists who loved to attack Darwinism because it contradicts their literalistic, but humanly-inspired intepretation of Genesis 1.

Darwin converted to Christianity on his death bed. Why is this? Was he afraid he was wrong?

[Ikari Warrior]

No, unless if you are one of those creationists who loved to attack Darwinism because it contradicts their literalistic, but humanly-inspired intepretation of Genesis 1.

My Lord God created man and the yangtze dolphin, and yea, the Lord did say unto man, "go forth, reproduce, and have dominion over all I have made." This included the yangtze dolphin.

Yea verily, man hath dominated.