Two more "Star Wars"

[VSh]

Source FOXNews.com: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270874,00.html

Lucas is currently preparing "Indiana Jones 4" with Harrison Ford, Blanchett and Shia LaBoeuf. The latter plays Ford's son, which means his mother was possibly the character Karen Allen played in "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

"I can't say," Lucas said when I brought up Allen.

Lucas says that Sean Connery still hasn't signed on, but his character, Indy's dad, is in the script. Other than that, his lips are sealed.

"Steven thinks we can keep the whole thing a secret," Lucas told me. "I explained to him that it's impossible nowadays. We can't live like that."

So then, tell me more about "Indy 4," I suggested.

"Oh no," replied Lucas with a smile.

Lucas told me he has seen all the summer movies since his company, Industrial Light and Magic, does most of the special effects. The only one they didn't work on was "Spider-Man 3." What did he think of it?

"It's silly. It's a silly movie," he said. "There just isn't much there. Once you take it all apart, there's not much story, is there?"

Well, it's not "Star Wars."

"People thought 'Star Wars' was silly, too," he added, with a wink. "But it wasn't."

Lucas, by the way, says he is readying "Clone Wars," an animated series for TV that's derived from "Star Wars." Many "Star Wars" characters appear in "Clone Wars," but voiced by other actors.

And here's a little news: Lucas tells me he will make two more live-action films based in the "Star Wars" era.

"But they won't have members of the Skywalker family as characters," he said. "They will be other people of that milieu."

The two extra films will also be made for TV and probably be an hour long each. But, like "Clone Wars," Lucas doesn't know where on TV they will land.

[Soluzar]

Great. So now the crappy Star Wars films are going to actually outnumber the ones worth watching. George Lucas has no ability whatsoever. He might have had some once, but he lost it all when his ego got too big.

It's not like Star Wars is an example of cinematic excellence, in fact it was always filled with inexperienced (sometimes flat-out bad) actors, clunky dialogue, and a paper-thin plot. It just so happened that the original movies were lucky enough to have enough quality performances, and exciting moments to succeed. They worked because of a strange, and difficult to duplicate combination of factors.

They weren't ever "good movies" from any technical, directorial or narratological point of view. They just work well in practice, as long as you don't look close enough to see the cracks.

George Lucas has somehow become convinced they were something other than that, and it is sad to see him keep on rubbing the memory of his creation in the dirt for a quick buck.

[Mr March]

I respect Lucas for what he's done, but I must criticize him for being so flippant with his opinion of other films, especially Action/Adventure pictures. The Spider-Man films are, for all intents and purposes, the EXACT same type of film that George Lucas makes; special effects driven, cheesy dialogue and plenty of fantastic action.

For Lucas to compare Star Wars and Spider-Man, suggesting the former is less "silly" than the latter, is to be in denial. Granted, the way that stupid FOX news article is written, I'm more than willing to bet Lucas insinuated no such thing and his two comments are taken completely out of context. This is FOXNews we're reading after all, the sultans of spin and sensationalisation.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...Lucas needs to smoke whatever he was smoking in the 70's to make sure these 2 come out EPIC, not EPIC FAIL.

[Soluzar]

...Lucas needs to smoke whatever he was smoking in the 70's to make sure these 2 come out EPIC, not EPIC FAIL.
From what I have heard, Harrison Ford was responsible for a lot of changes to the script. He just argued with Lucas that the scenes were stupid the way that they were written, and insisted on changes. If that's really the case, then it's not surprising that Lucas can't make a good film without Ford - which does seem to be the case.

I also do believe that the gravitas which was brought to the project by such actors as Sir Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing helped a lot.

[Solid_Snake]

Another example of an old school derector who can't get his game right anymore.

See: Wes Craven. Dario Argento. George A Romero. Brian De Palma. John Carpenter. Clive Barker. ect.

And this "Star Wars for TV" has been known for quite some time. A live action Clone Wars TV series and a regular Star Wars has had an IMDB page for a while. With suposed confirmation.

[Caster13]

i think this can be considered as a repeat of Star Trek now. dammit LET IT DIE ALREADY!!!

though im pretty sure that Star Trek has a bigger fan following.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

HE DID NOT JUST CALL SPIDER-MAN SILLY.

- ANGRY PRoNS

[GreatNekoKoneko]

HE DID NOT JUST CALL SPIDER-MAN SILLY.

- ANGRY PRoNS

...yup. he did.

[Daishikaze]

Its official, I now hate the star wars franchise, with the exception of certain films and games.

[Ariel Tsuki]

HE DID NOT JUST CALL SPIDER-MAN SILLY.

- ANGRY PRoNS

Granted the Spiderman movie trilogy is silly, but this is clearly a case of the pot calling the kettle black. As much as I dislike Tobey Macguire as Spidey (too subdued of what I think of Peter Parker IMO), at least Spiderman has better acting than Episodes 1-3 of Star Wars. Egad, wooden acting is WOODEN. Even the win that is Samuel L. Jackson could save those movies... although the infamous Vader's "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" almost worth watching Epsiode 3 for.

[Lita]

I smell major fail in these 2 new Star Wars movies, just leave it be now.

[Ken-Ohki]

Honestly I liked the first 3 movies, I wish other people did too but I understand most people dislike them. I ESPECIALLY liked watching all 6 in one day which I did about 18 months ago, it was spectacular when watching the development of Anakin, his fall, and redemption.

Sorry, I just really liked the whole package.

As for made for TV movies? He's done this already, remember the wookie thing in the 80s? Or the eewok one? They're terrifying.

[Bernard_Monsha]

From what I have heard, Harrison Ford was responsible for a lot of changes to the script. He just argued with Lucas that the scenes were stupid the way that they were written, and insisted on changes. If that's really the case, then it's not surprising that Lucas can't make a good film without Ford - which does seem to be the case.

I also do believe that the gravitas which was brought to the project by such actors as Sir Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing helped a lot.

He also made THX1138 and American Graffitti both are good films. I think he needs to shop his new ones out to Irvin Kershner who directed the best of the lot. I also get tired of people complaining about how episodes 1,2 and 3 were. They obviously have never compared them to Star Trek films or any of the other genre other than the original 3 which is biased by childhood impressions.

HE DID NOT JUST CALL SPIDER-MAN SILLY.

- ANGRY PRoNS

Sorry Prons but the last one sucked, at least Lucas has special effects down and no "Emo" Parker. The only thing i really liked about the new Spiderman was Bruce Campbells appearence and JJ was spot on.

[Soluzar]

He also made THX1138 and American Graffitti both are good films. I think he needs to shop his new ones out to Irvin Kershner who directed the best of the lot.
I've not seen either of them, actually. Maybe I should, before I make comments about his body of work. I guess this means that it's more a function of time than anything else. I didn't even really like any of the Indiana Jones movies except the first, so I was ahead of all y'all on hating George Lucas.

Agreed 100% that Empire Strikes Back was the best of 'em all.

I also get tired of people complaining about how episodes 1,2 and 3 were. They obviously have never compared them to Star Trek films or any of the other genre other than the original 3 which is biased by childhood impressions.
What.

I don't think you just said that Star Wars episode 1, 2 and 3 were actually decent, did you? I won't go so far as to say that any of the Star Trek films were high art, but most of them were better than the first three Star Wars episodes by a hell of a long way.

Mind you, they were still terible. Just way less terrible than Star Wars episodes 1, 2 and 3. The only Star Trek movies I even could stand to watch again are Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock, but both are cheesy as hell.

There are a lot of sci-fi movies which were worse than the new SW trilogy, but I don't waste my time watching them either.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I've not seen either of them, actually. Maybe I should, before I make comments about his body of work. I guess this means that it's more a function of time than anything else. I didn't even really like any of the Indiana Jones movies except the first, so I was ahead of all y'all on hating George Lucas.


Lucas did not direct any of the Indiana Jones films, Steven Speilberg did. He co-produced and co wrote them.


I don't think you just said that Star Wars episode 1, 2 and 3 were actually decent, did you? I won't go so far as to say that any of the Star Trek films were high art, but most of them were better than the first three Star Wars episodes by a hell of a long way.

Mind you, they were still terible. Just way less terrible than Star Wars episodes 1, 2 and 3. The only Star Trek movies I even could stand to watch again are Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock, but both are cheesy as hell.

There are a lot of sci-fi movies which were worse than the new SW trilogy, but I don't waste my time watching them either.

You just do not like the genre, go rent Plan 9 From Outer Space, or War of the Planets then tell me how bad Lucas is.

[Soluzar]

Lucas did not direct any of the Indiana Jones films, Steven Speilberg did. He co-produced and co wrote them.
I was thinking that, as I wrote the post... but I couldn't really remember what the division of duties was, and I assumed someone would correct me. :)

You just do not like the genre, go rent Plan 9 From Outer Space, or War of the Planets then tell me how bad Lucas is.Isn't the genre "sci-fi", because I can promise you that I'm a hell of a big fan of print, film, and televised sci-fi. If these movies all belong to a specific sub-genre, it's not one that I'm really aware of. Enlighten me?

[Solid_Snake]

The only thing i really liked about the new Spiderman was Bruce Campbells

ABOUT FRICKIN' TIME!

I would say that Sam Raimi owes a lot to Bruce. I doubt he would be where he is today without the godly Evil Dead trilogy.

[Rock]

I will not reiterate my dislike for Spider-Man 3, but I will tell you this much: You can't compare Star Wars to Spider-Man. Spider-Man is based off of a comic book, the original Star Wars trilogy is some of the most revolutionary film making of its era. So, you're comparing a comic book movie's dialogue and story to that of 3 movies that are all in the Top 50 Greatest Movies of All Time according to TV Guide's listings.

Also, anything Lucas directs is already doomed. A New Hope wasn't that great to me, but Empire and Jedi were excellent. Connection = Lucas didn't direct those.

Honestly, if they do these 'TV movies' they need to let Lucas produce and have some no name indie directors take the series in a new direction, or else we'll be watching these movies on Cartoon Network as a primetime matinee.

[Hara!]

Must be KOTOR.

Save this post and see. It will be KOTOR.

[Jon]

KOTOR would be sweet.

But it won't happen. Save this post and see

[Emi]

KOTOR would be sweet.

As long as they don't decide to rush it out of production giving us a half done product.

[Amuro]

Episode I was a perfectly decent movie. It lacked the same aesthetics and storytelling that the original trilogy possessed, but it was a fun journey in its own way. There were no glaring pacing problems, examples of horrible acting, or artificial-looking overuses of green screen without sets.

Episode II was the one that sent the series downhill because it was quite simply stale, boring, unpleasant to watch. None of the fun of Episode I was there, just a lousy, routine, mal-developed plot with a few hinted mysteries and anticipated developments that were intriguing enough to warrant purchasing Expanded Universe products and waiting for Episode III. However, with all that considered, Episode II wasn't that bad of a movie. There were no real pacing problems once you get over the fact that the whole movie is just too slow and inconsequential to be made at all. On the acting side, we get Jake Lloyd's oft-maligned but relatively charismatic child Anakin replaced with the ridiculous "emo" Hayden Christensen Anakin, and considering that he's a main character, that's a large problem. If a more charismatic actor had been in that role, the movie would have immediately been much more enjoyable. The overuse of green screen also began with Episode II.. and the CGI sets are generally bland and irritating (Forgive me, but I'm a fan of the Final Fantasy school of CGI environment design), with one color template dominating each one to the point of exasperation.

Episode III returned somewhat to the fun of Episode I. It has the largest pacing problems of the three, however, with horribly-executed Kashyyk scenes, Obi-Wan vs Grevious segment, etc. The whole thing is overly stilted in its flow and is trying to cram too much in.That said, however, the environments are less boring this time around (with the exception of Mustafar, which is a pain to look at). The acting is at its worst because too many scenes featured actors being filmed on green screen without the presence of a set or even other actors. Actors have to play off of one another, and separating them completely contradicts that necessity and leads to unpleasantly unnatural performances. However, with all that considered, Episode III was where the plot developments foreshadowed in Episode II, the things that kept Episode II from being a completely throwaway movie, were finally delivered, more or less. It's where the epic bits happened, and it's thus much more fun to watch than II, even though I was the better movie.

Effective comparison:
Episode I was like a by-the-book stop-animation story about a talking rock's adventures, with rote direction and cinematography.
Episode II was like a steady, well composed, long shot of an unmoving rock in front of a really ugly, irritating, background. Every now and then, the rock rolls a little and gathers a little dirt, becoming larger (what does this sound like?).
Episode III was like a fancy CGI clip featuring the rock, which has now become large off-camera, beating on everyone and everything and instilling itself as head of the world, but with a camera that points in completely random directions and shakes a lot and has screwed up focus and is generally just seriously messed up.
(why is there a camera in a CGI film? whatever..)

[Jon]

As long as they don't decide to rush it out of production giving us a half done product.
That was KOTOR 2:P

[Emi]

That was KOTOR 2:P

I know. But that doesn't mean they couldn't do the same with a KOTOR movie. Off-topic but I can't wait for Team Gizka to finish. I would really like an ending for my game.

[Soluzar]

I thought that Episode I was by far the worst. The first time I watched it I didn't even stay to see the end. It was just that distasteful. It had no real plot that I could detect, and it had Jar-Jar Binks. I've since watched it a couple of times, in an attempt to understand the plot. I'm astounded by how little actually happens, and how inconsequential it all seems.

I find that I must agree with Amuro that there were no actual pacing issues with the self-contained plot of the film. It always kept moving forward at the same steady pace. The pacing problems are only apparent when this film is judged as the first installment of a trilogy.

Since this trilogy is a prequel, we already knew how it should end. It didn't come as a surprise to anyone that Anakin ended up taking the identity Darth Vader, or that the Old Republic fell, to be replaced by the Galactic Empire. What is puzzling is why almost everything regarding that overall plot took place within just two movies of this trilogy.

I'll admit that Anakin meeting the woman who would become his wife was an important part of the story, but the framing narrative about the trade federation, and the whole ruckus on Naboo seemed very thin to me. There was room for something better, either instead of, or as well as that particular plotline.

When you have a story to tell within three movies, why waste one on fluff? The events of this movie weren't so important as to fill the time available.

The second movie actually made some attempt to present a story of some consequence, and one which on paper would have seemed like an excellent installment in the Star Wars saga. I found that it was spoiled by poor performances. Haydn Christianson was simply unspeakable, and Ewan McGregor proved conclusively that he does not have what it takes to play Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I'm inclined to agree with Amuro about the way the film looked. It was bland, and uninteresting to watch. The plot was a solid improvement over Episode I, but due to several weak performances, it was an even less pleasant movie to watch, for me.

I call that one a missed opportunity. It could have worked with a different cast, and some slightly better visuals. It really wasn't all that bad.

Episode III was the first of the new trilogy I would actually call a good movie. The plot took us from a previously established end-point to a previously established starting point without too much in the way of fluff. I question the inclusion of General Grevious, and I'm not entirely uncritical of the movie, but of the three, this one at least delivered what it promised.

I would say that it certainly looked the best of the three, and by now the casting mistakes were something with which I had learned to cope. If I cannot say that I like Haydn Christianson or Ewan McGregor's performance, I can at least say that by this point I have become accustomed to them.

The plot was pretty decent, once again. I'll agree with Amuro (Again?!?!) that too much had to be crammed in to one film, but this was mainly the fault of Episode I, which bumbled around, not really doing anything.

[Mr March]

Episode One was awful. I agree with anyone who says this is by far the worst of the six films. This one movie definitely reduced the whole franchise to a new low.

Episode Two was silly, but was a prequel as entertaining as Return of the Jedi.

Episode Three was fantastic and definitely one of the best of the six films.

[RPGQueen]

I really like star wars (see my avatar), but I don't know what two more movies would do to the franchise. Would these films be considered absolute canaon? anyways I would still like to see it.

[Hara!]

II was worst.

Had no real ending, or a good plot.

[Vaikyuko]

II was worst.

Had no real ending, or a good plot.

Truth. I actually liked Episode I more than I did III, except for one key thing: Grievous. If they hadn't included him, I probably wouldn't think it was that good.

I'm sad, I know. *mechanical cough*

[Sendo Takeshi]

Episode 1 had Darth Maul. That's it. And even then, there was too much hype that it failed to live up to. Episode 2 was just something else. I think Lucas fell asleep on the chair and the rest of the crew just made up the rest of the film as they went along.

The Clone Wars was supposed to be something huge and Episode 2 failed to deliver as well. Gendy Tartokovsky's Clone Wars animated series was leagues above Episode 2.

[Amuro]

Well, the plot of Episode I was again in large part taken from The Hidden Fortress, arguably even more so than the plot of the original Star Wars was with the whole "old Jedi (Samurai in the original) must get the disguised princess of a conquered nation past an enemy blockade" bit.

Actually, Jar-Jar Binks may be Episode I's take on Tahei and Matashichi, Hidden Fortress' poor farmers who always get themselves into trouble (whereas the original trilogy's take on them was RD2D and C-3PO).

As for the plot being self-contained, I don't really have a problem with that because half the fun of a franchise like Star Wars is world-building, which the prequel trilogy spends a lot more time on than the original trilogy did. By its nature, Episode I was where the largest mass of world-building for the prequel era took place, and, at the time, it felt more fresh than it later would.

If you ask me, the best thing about each of the prequel movies was the mass of opportunities that each made available for the Expanded Universe to explore.

[CrossboneGundam]

So, the lesson we've all learned from this?

Harrison Ford needs to punch George Lucas in the nuts.

[Amuro]

Well, George Lucas's work in this decade hasn't been commended much, but I honestly can't think of a single movie director (well, of the Hollywood kind, anyway) whose work I've really liked in the past years, with the possible exception of Sam Raimi.
Personally I'll be glad if he directs 'The Hobbit' instead of Jackson. The Hobbit is also a bit less focused on large-scale clashes (the thing that Jackson is known to have done well) and world-building (the thing that I think Jackson did badly), so I think that Raimi would be a good fit for it considering that he told an intimate story with Spider-Man that also included some sleek action sequences. Admittedly, I think that the Spider-Man sequels were forced and felt unnecessary, with inconsistent character development, but that wouldn't be a problem with The Hobbit, since the story is set in stone and the sequels already made.

Speaking of Jackson, the King Kong remake was far worse than any of the Star Wars prequels and in much the same way (over-reliance on special-effects rather than plot, bad pacing).
Peter Jackson needs to seriously learn to cut back on the length of his movies, to sacrifice things, or else all his movies are far too long for the story they're telling (with Lord of the Rings it was a little annoying, with King Kong it was just unbearable).

[CrossboneGundam]

Well, George Lucas's work in this decade hasn't been commended much, but I honestly can't think of a single movie director (well, of the Hollywood kind, anyway) whose work I've really liked in the past years, with the possible exception of Sam Raimi.

George Lucas hasn't done a decent film in decades. You clearly have some sort of bizarre affiliation for the worst in moving-picture entertainment.

[Ariel Tsuki]

Truth. I actually liked Episode I more than I did III, except for one key thing: Grievous. If they hadn't included him, I probably wouldn't think it was that good.

I'm sad, I know. *mechanical cough*

Don't worry, I think everyone on this thread can say that Gen. Grievous was very kick-***. He lived up to what Darth Maul didn't, being such a great villain. Oh god, remember the uproar of publicity about Darth Maul? He was EVERYWHERE. And when the movie actually came out, he was in it for like 5 mins tops.

Now I think back on it, I do agree that Episode One was kinda aimless, but its main objective was to establish the relationship of the characters and start rolling the story by showing how Anakin came to be a part of the Jedi Knights. I actually enjoyed Episode One really.

Episode Two... not so much. I agree that Hayden Christensen is a HUGE miscast for older Anakin. The wooden acting really hit it home in this one. Maybe the ultra cheesy romance subplot between Anakin and Padme REALLY put me off. Ugh. But it did spawn one thing: The Yoda Fight (if I recall correctly), that was off the chain.

Episode Three was really, really disappointing since it's the movie where we see why Anakin turns into Darth Vader. I'm sorry but this movie took alot of coolness points for Vader. Ugh, ugh, Lucas shall never write romance ever, EVER again (Padme dies because of a broken heart. Eww...). Even 13-year old fangirls can do better. I don't know but for the movie that started everything in the old trilogy, it was kinda disappointing. It did try to cram alot of stuff in it and it was a mess. I disliked it so much that me and my sister started to MST 3000 it when we were around halfway the movie. Except the Gen. Grievous parts. He was awesome. And the famous "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" thing was hilarous. If you did not at least snickered at that part, you're lying.

But all movie had one awesome thing: Samuel L. Jackson. He wasn't used enough IMO. LMAO.

Also, I have to disagree on Soulzar about Ewan McGregor not being a good fit for Obiwan. I think he was good fit, but an actor can only do so much with a crappy director. It would be one thing if it was just McGregor or Christensen that was bad, but almost everyone acted badly in those movies. It doesn't matter how skillful the actor/actress is but if the director is crappy, it usually translates into crappy performances from the actors.

Yes, I actually agree with CrossboneGundam, Lucas needs a kick in the pants by Ford if Ford is the reason why the old trilogy were enjoyable.

[Sendo Takeshi]

Episode 3 didn't even show the slaughter of the Jedis. Good job Lucas. Good job.

[Hara!]

The music made III.

[Amuro]

George Lucas hasn't done a decent film in decades. You clearly have some sort of bizarre affiliation for the worst in moving-picture entertainment.

When did I ever say otherwise? I was merely commenting on the lack of decent movies coming out of Hollywood in the past decade or so (since the start of the new millennium, actually). It seems as if you had a problem with me saying that George Lucas's movies have been bad only in the past decade. However, the new Star Wars trilogy is the only thing he's directed since the original, so I don't see which of his films you think I'm giving too much credit to? By focusing on the time period (this decade) rather than the individual (George Lucas), I felt that I could make a more noteworthy statement based on far more data.

We really can't say whether George Lucas is a good or a bad director now because he simply hasn't directed that much. We can, however, say, that all movies of the past decade have been bad movies (doesn't mean its true, but the data needed to make this sort of generalization is available to us, unlike in the case of George Lucas's directing in particular).

[Ariel Tsuki]

Episode 3 didn't even show the slaughter of the Jedis. Good job Lucas. Good job.

Wasn't the padawans enough? I LOLed at that part, sadly...

[Hara!]

Wasn't the padawans enough? I LOLed at that part, sadly...

Why did Anakin kill the kids, while the idiot spawn killed the adults?

[Ariel Tsuki]

Why did Anakin kill the kids, while the idiot spawn killed the adults?

I don't know really. But I do understand why he did it though (to make sure all traces of the Jedi Knights were eliminated so they won't go against the new government). I think it was supposed to be symbolic in a way, but it was shabbily done.

[Soluzar]

Don't worry, I think everyone on this thread can say that Gen. Grievous was very kick-***. He lived up to what Darth Maul didn't, being such a great villain.
HE WAS A ROBOT THAT COUGHED!

What the hell is up with that?

I found Grevious to be lame in the extreme, and I laughed almost constantly while he was on screen. I don't think... I was supposed... to be laughing? :unsure:

[quote]Also, I have to disagree with Soluzar about Ewan McGregor not being a good fit for Obi-Wan. I think he was good fit, but an actor can only do so much with a crappy director. It would be one thing if it was just McGregor or Christensen that was bad, but almost everyone acted badly in those movies. It doesn't matter how skillful the actor/actress is but if the director is crappy, it usually translates into crappy performances from the actors.[QUOTE]
There's some truth to that, but for me, McGregor doesn't have the physical presence, or the voice for the role. It's not about his acting skills. He just can't play the part, because his physical attributes are wrong.

[Westlo]

How are his physical attributes wrong? The Force isn't just something you get better at by being ripped and tone, it's a mind thing.

Oh and Gen. Grievous coughed because Samuel L Jacksons character forced pushed him in the chest when he was kidnapping palpatine. Was in the clone wars animted series i think... read it on wiki.

[Ariel Tsuki]

HE WAS A ROBOT THAT COUGHED!

What the hell is up with that?

I found Grevious to be lame in the extreme, and I laughed almost constantly while he was on screen. I don't think... I was supposed... to be laughing? :unsure:

Aww, I think it was one of his quirk.... although I did thought that "oh boy, that doesn't sound so good, you might need to go to the mechanic for that..." once. But Gen. Grievous was the only villian I liked in the new trilogy.

[Amuro]

http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/SirAlecGuinness.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/EwanMCGREGOR1%28CannesPH%29.jpg
Well, they don't really look the same..

Grievous did seem to me to be too "Saturday-morning-cartoony" a villain for Star Wars to me.. too cliched/corny to mesh with the sober tone of the majority of the movie and the new need for a PG-13 rating..

[Hara!]

HE WAS A ROBOT THAT COUGHED!

What the hell is up with that?

I found Grevious to be lame in the extreme, and I laughed almost constantly while he was on screen. I don't think... I was supposed... to be laughing? :unsure:


He wasn´t a robot. Just a guy that got fracked up.

[Jabberwock]

How are his physical attributes wrong? The Force isn't just something you get better at by being ripped and tone, it's a mind thing.

Exactly, and I think I can see what Soluzar is saying about McGregor in that role. His acting wasn't so horrendous that it wasn't overshadowed by other actors and actresses vying for that role, but he really didn't have an imposing presence that Obi-wan should have--and he's supposed to be his physical peak at this point in the story!

And Grievous was... well, he was awesome in the animated series. They totally neutered him in the movie b/c they were too lazy to animate him to his full capacities if you ask me.

[Soluzar]

How are his physical attributes wrong? The Force isn't just something you get better at by being ripped and tone, it's a mind thing.
His physical attributes are wrong because he doesn't look like a young Alec Guiness. I've seen quite enough of the young Alec Guiness to know what he looked and sounded like, and McGregor is smaller, and with a completely different voice. This is a pre-established character we are talking about, here... not some new dude that Lucas pulled out of his capacious ***.

Alec Guinness isn't a huge, muscle-bound hulk, and never has been. He does have a certain presence though, which is even larger than his physical body. It's a skill the best actors have. He also knows how to speak with gravity, even when he can't stand the film he is working on.

Oh and Gen. Grievous coughed because Samuel L Jacksons character forced pushed him in the chest when he was kidnapping Palpatine. Was in the clone wars animated series i think... read it on wiki.
Does that make it any less stupid? I mean, really? It's not like that was the only issue I had with the character... I do understand that he was a cyborg, with some organic parts, which is presumably why he would cough. What I don't understand is why this character needed to be a cyborg. I've just read his backstory on Wikipedia, and... honestly it just seems even more lame than I expected.

I can see that the cybernetically enhanced brain makes him a formidable warrior, but I find everything about the character misses the mark for me. It felt like he was supposed to be a really stupid idea for an upgrade of Maul. Two lightsabers didn't work, so the next villain will have four.

His fighting style was cool and all... but I just couldn't take him seriously. I had that problem with most of the trilogy. There were only a very few times in the old trilogy I had a problem taking any major character seriously. The Ewoks being the worst offender, of course.

[Vaikyuko]

Grievous was, as has been stated a few times, a normal warlord, guiding his troops into battle on his own warlord-ridden planet. Then Palpatine came along, had Dooku arrange a shuttle crash. Wham. The Trade Federation group (Banking Clan specifically, I think) went and reconstructed him. As a token of his gratitude for their kind, not at all selfless deed, he took up command of the Separatist forces. He also killed a large number of Jedi, and a chunk of this is shown in the Clone Wars miniseries (I believe he kills at least five or six Jedi within that, and is said to have killed more prior). Later, when Grievous kidnapped Palpatine (he was not aware of Palpatine's dual identity), Mace Windu attacked him as they were boarding his shuttle. Grievous was prepared to fight him, but Mace took a cheap shot and Force crushed his chest cavity, which held his internal organs.

Hence, he coughs in the film.

EDIT: Curses, he posted prior to me stating he had knowledge! Meh. His fighting style (and indeed, he himself) seems a lot cooler in the animated series.

[Ariel Tsuki]

http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/SirAlecGuinness.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/EwanMCGREGOR1%28CannesPH%29.jpg
Well, they don't really look the same..

But thre young Alan Guiness doesn't look formiable either. Man, he was a case of a person who got better looking when they got older...

But I think it's kinda unfair to McGregor though, I think in this case we have to think of it in reverse though as McGregor's Obiwan grew into Guiness' Obiwan, considering the events and all.


But Gen. Grievous was much better than the other villians in the new trilogy. Maul was a failure, Dooku was not that impressive (although it's Christopher Lee), and Sidious was just creepy like an old, crazy uncle. I had no choice really.

[Soluzar]

Grievous was, as has been stated a few times, a normal warlord, guiding his troops into battle on his own warlord-ridden planet. Then Palpatine came along, had Dooku arrange a shuttle crash. Wham. The Trade Federation group (Banking Clan specifically, I think) went and reconstructed him. As a token of his gratitude for their kind, not at all selfless deed, he took up command of the Separatist forces. He also killed a large number of Jedi, and a chunk of this is shown in the Clone Wars miniseries (I believe he kills at least five or six Jedi within that, and is said to have killed more prior). Later, when Grievous kidnapped Palpatine (he was not aware of Palpatine's dual identity), Mace Windu attacked him as they were boarding his shuttle. Grievous was prepared to fight him, but Mace took a cheap shot and Force crushed his chest cavity, which held his internal organs.

Hence, he coughs in the film.
The only problem I have with that is that in order to cough you need a regular throat. It's a reflex action intended to clear obstructions or foreign bodies from the chest, as I'm sure we all realise. Grevious seems to cough out of the same voice synthesizer which allows him to speak. Certainly the sound of his speech and his coughing seemed to me to be mechanical in nature.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Episode 3 didn't even show the slaughter of the Jedis. Good job Lucas. Good job.


The opening scene of Episode III made it worth it, that was the best space combat sequence ever put on film.

HE WAS A ROBOT THAT COUGHED!

What the hell is up with that?

He was a cyborg and Mace smooshed his lungs as he was kidnapping Palpidious. They show it in the clone wars cartoon which leads up and hour before the opening sequence of the movie.

[Soluzar]

But thre young Alan Guiness doesn't look formiable either. Man, he was a case of a person who got better looking when they got older...
It's more a case that he's such a good actor that he can present the appearance that he wants to, up to a point. I never said he was formidable, I said he had physical presence. McGregor is a good actor, but he is distinctly lacking in physical presence. It's not entirely about, really... it's about movement, and attitude. It's about acting with your body.

But I think it's kinda unfair to McGregor though, I think in this case we have to think of it in reverse though as McGregor's Obiwan grew into Guiness' Obiwan, considering the events and all.
McGregor's Obi-Wan would have grown into someone who would have let Princess Leia die, and the Death Star would have run rampant on the galaxy. He seems so weak. Not physically, but weak in voice, weak in body language, weak in character, and in action. The last two are the fault of Lucas, mind you.

But Gen. Grievous was much better than the other villians in the new trilogy. Maul was a failure, Dooku was not that impressive (although it's Christopher Lee), and Sidious was just creepy like an old, crazy uncle. I had no choice really.
I disagree with you that Grevious is better, but certainly I agree that there is NO good villain. Maul had no character. A villain is threatening based on more than just the way they fight.

*sigh*

What a waste... what a waste of a cool looking villain design on that utterly bland character.
The opening scene of Episode III made it worth it, that was the best space combat sequence ever put on film.
It was pretty damn sexy... I prefer some of the battles from B5 myself, but that was way up there as far as pure space combat set-pieces go.

[Ariel Tsuki]

The only problem I have with that is that in order to cough you need a regular throat. It's a reflex action intended to clear obstructions or foreign bodies from the chest, as I'm sure we all realise. Grevious seems to cough out of the same voice synthesizer which allows him to speak. Certainly the sound of his speech and his coughing seemed to me to be mechanical in nature.

I guess he might have something similar to a windpipe within him, but I do admit that is a bit of plothole there. We can only assume that Mace crushed something inside of him that causes him to cough incessantly.

[Soluzar]

I guess he might have something similar to a windpipe within him, but I do admit that is a bit of plothole there. We can only assume that Mace crushed something inside of him that causes him to cough incessantly.
If it pleases you to believe so... personally I just ignore the existance of the movies now, other than when it comes to arguing online. I'm pretty much done with that for today, since anything further just comes down to me repeating the same point of view over and over again. Certainly it's time I gave the Grevious and Obi-Wan issues a rest.

[Vaikyuko]

Not a plothole when they don't say what was replaced and what wasn't, specifically. Also: how would Steven Hawking coughing sound? :P

[superplough]

Wow, epic Star Wars thread..

The best one is Return of the Jedi. Ewoks=Win. Except in the lame new edition where Lucas replaced old dude with Christiansen in the final scene. Christiansen=Fail.

The prequel trilogy fails for the same reason Spiderman 3 failed: way too much soap opera crap. Padme is pathetic and Anakin's just as bad. Jake Lloyd was soo much better than Hayden Christiansen.

If they make two new movies they better have NO romance. At ALL.

[KazumaII]

I screamed my Star Wars nerd yelp and rejoiced. I love anything Lucas does you can not go wrong with him and all six of his masterpieces...

[Hara!]

All six..?

Oh god... this won´t be good...

[earsofdoom]

I don't get why peaple like lucas milk a series dry, sure they may make a bit more money but they lose respect from fans. of course usually they like money more then respect but if they make another movie that means fans who lost respect might not PAY to see it.

[CrossboneGundam]

The best one is Return of the Jedi. Ewoks=Win.

No way. The Ewoks were a grim foreshadowing of things to come.

I love anything Lucas does you can not go wrong with him and all six of his masterpieces...

This is the definition of "fanboy," isn't it?

I don't get why peaple like lucas milk a series dry, sure they may make a bit more money but they lose respect from fans. of course usually they like money more then respect but if they make another movie that means fans who lost respect might not PAY to see it.

He doesn't care about the fans, he cares about the ordinary Joe Public who's going to shell out $12 per ticket to take his kids to see the new star wars movie.


At any rate, Harrison Ford also needs to punch Hayden Christiansen in the crotch, just for being such a s***ty actor.

[RPGQueen]

Okay, Hayden Christiansen can't act. Ewan can; watch Transpotting, and Obi Wan is amazing.

[Ken-Ohki]

Sorry to respond so late but I agree with Bernard 100% and if George Lucas only made 1 film and that film was American Graffiti he would go down in history as one of the greatest directors of all time.

[jedisolo]

George Lucas should make three movies out of the Thrawn Trilogy.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Wow, epic Star Wars thread..

The best one is Return of the Jedi. Ewoks=Win.


The only thing good about Return of the Jedi was the Emperor's Trash talk and the space battle. The only really great things about the last Prequel were the even better than ROTJ space battle and Palpideous trash talking, playing possum and turning Yoda into a punk. That and Grevious twirling lightsabres was pretty cool.

[Soluzar]

The only thing good about Return of the Jedi was the Emperor's Trash talk and the space battle.
The scene in the Emperor's throne room really was what made the story worthwhile. The whole scene in Jabba's Palace, while necessary was not exactly thrilling for me. The space battle was just some delicious icing on an already delicious cake.

Ewoks = EPIC FAIL.

Good job the rest of the movie makes up for it.

[Solid_Snake]

I think I'm gonna jump on the Return of the Jedi bandwagon. Ewoks rocked, and the final Lightsabre battle while the epic music was playing= Awsome.

[Sendo Takeshi]

Empire is the definite Star Wars movie for me. Return of the Jedi was just weak in the plot department. Of course, Anakin's "funeral" scene was pretty good too. Just Luke sitting there knowing that he must lead the next generation of Jedi's(which is where the comic books and novels come into play). Ewoks were just too corny. The AT-ST should have stomped on a few of them. Just for kicks.

[Ken-Ohki]

Originally the script called for Wookies in Return of the Jedi which is why wookie . . . eewok . . . they almost use the same letters for heaven's sake. Should have kept the wookies.

[superplough]

Oh come on guys the ewoks are brilliant

[Bernard_Monsha]

Oh come on guys the ewoks are brilliant

Makes obligatory sheep reference.

The only good thing about the Ewoks was the destruction of the Death Star doomed them to extinction (http://www1.fanforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html)

[superplough]

Not cool...

[Hara!]

Makes obligatory sheep reference.

The only good thing about the Ewoks was the destruction of the Death Star doomed them to extinction (http://www1.fanforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html)

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/malomeat/1178946392585.jpg

[Ken-Ohki]

That Endor Holocaust just made my day ^_^

[Tom Servo]

None of the Star Wars films seem as good as when I first saw them, probably due to the mind control.

Epic space operas aren't easy to pull off so I at least respect them for their scope - but yes, it all seems a little silly.

[Stafal-chan]

I didn't mind the 3 newer movies. ^_^ Sure they aren't classic like the older ones....but they're decent ^_^ Plus they give you more of the story. :lol: As for theses new movies....all I have to say is...<_< George Lucas needs to quit while he's behind. -_-

[Chousho]

Oh come on, we get new Star Wars movies, but still no Metal Gear Solid?

WTF?

[Solid_Snake]

Oh come on, we get new Star Wars movies, but still no Metal Gear Solid?

Nothing good will ever come out of a Metal Gear Solid Movie.

[Old Ape Face]

Great. So now the crappy Star Wars films are going to actually outnumber the ones worth watching. George Lucas has no ability whatsoever. He might have had some once, but he lost it all when his ego got too big.

It's not like Star Wars is an example of cinematic excellence, in fact it was always filled with inexperienced (sometimes flat-out bad) actors, clunky dialogue, and a paper-thin plot. It just so happened that the original movies were lucky enough to have enough quality performances, and exciting moments to succeed. They worked because of a strange, and difficult to duplicate combination of factors.

They weren't ever "good movies" from any technical, directorial or narratological point of view. They just work well in practice, as long as you don't look close enough to see the cracks.

George Lucas has somehow become convinced they were something other than that, and it is sad to see him keep on rubbing the memory of his creation in the dirt for a quick buck.

X-wing fighters are really toys on strings!!!!!!!!! :ph34r:

[waltsoph3]

2 more live action star wars movies!?!

...........Awesome. :D I cant wait for em. Im a proud to enjoy live action star war movies. I can't wait .
Thanks for sharing the story.

[Ridley-X4]

Zombie thread!