Anyone had a problem with DVD rot?

[Solid_Snake]

I've been thinking about this lately. And was wondering, how do you prevent it? How long does a DVD take to become "Unreadable."

And will cleaning said DVD fix this DVD rot?

[Hopelesromantic]

What on earth are you talking about?

I have heard that disc media isn't forever, but surely you are not implying literally "rot"?

To my knowledge, I have been told that disc media can go bad in about 10 years. Sounds weird to me of course. I have always thought disc media was permanent till physically damaged.

[master terrence]

I think he means when will the information on the disk rot... he's not that stupid.

[Tenou]

If you keep your disks properly (in cases, don't stack them, keep them at room temperature, out of humidity, etc,. etc,.) they'll last you 20 years, or so I've heard.
I've had some disks more than 10 years and they've had frequent use and there's no sign of rot (oxidation, I believe is the cause... or possibly carbonation... I was never really good with the sciences).

It's not something that I've really worried about.

[Fobb]

Nowadays no product is made to last. That's the only guarantee you'll get.

[Tenou]

What on earth are you talking about?

I have heard that disc media isn't forever, but surely you are not implying literally "rot"?

To my knowledge, I have been told that disc media can go bad in about 10 years. Sounds weird to me of course. I have always thought disc media was permanent till physically damaged.
DVDs will physically rot. I've seen a few that have rotted, looks like there is a bunch of holes in the disk, hence the term rot. Not as big a problem as it was back in the early days (and even into the later days) of CDs.

[Ketaru]

If you keep your disks properly (in cases, don't stack them, keep them at room temperature, out of humidity, etc,. etc,.) they'll last you 20 years, or so I've heard.
I've had some disks more than 10 years and they've had frequent use and there's no sign of rot (oxidation, I believe is the cause... or possibly carbonation... I was never really good with the sciences).

It's not something that I've really worried about.

Hmm, can you vouch for those zipped CD/DVD cases that let you store maybe 50 or 70 discs in this little packet?

...I have this CD/DVD imperfection phobia that has been hard to shake off. "Oh my God! One of my favorite CDs that I play 100x per month actually has wear and tear in it!" Yeah, irrational, but everytime I check my discs, it always feels like there is some other imperfection in it that wasn't there last time.

[Solid_Snake]

I just didn';t want to back up 200+ DVDs at the moment. Thanks. :)

I take it games are the same way?

[Tenou]

Hmm, can you vouch for those zipped CD/DVD cases that let you store maybe 50 or 70 discs in this little packet?

It depends on how anal you want to get with it. I store unimportant backups in those cases, but they are prone to sweat if they're not kept in a well ventilated area with temperature change (such as your car, so don't keep CDs or DVDs in your vehicle) plastic is bad for that, but leather's a bit better if you're going to use them. There's the fear of scratching because you have friction on both sides when you place in into or remove it from the sleeve.

All of my commercial and important backup DVDs are stored in single plastic cases.

I just didn';t want to back up 200+ DVDs at the moment. Thanks. :)

I take it games are the same way?
Games, I wouldn't know. I've never owned a console... waite, I did own an Atari and a Nintendo (just Nintendo, nothing before or after, just Nintendo). I've only seen one or two console game disks and they don't look at all like DVDs except for the shape, so I'm thinking there's a difference. Don't know what it is.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I thought they had a shelf life of 20 years give or take a few

[Solid_Snake]

^That's what I thought too. Untill I read some articles on the intarnets. Heh.

I guess I'll invest in some DVD condoms.

[Satsumaru]

If you're burning your own CD/DVDs you should turn down the burn speed. The slower they are, the less likely it is for the data gaps(or whatever they're called) to oxidise and blur together(causing the disc to be unreadable). Tho in some cases I've noticed if I burn a disc too slow, my drive wont read it :lol:

CDs usually last longer than DVDs because their data gaps(god I forgot the proper term lol) arent as bunched up and compressed. Disc media is the best long term data storage so I've heard, but its not forever :(

[CrossboneGundam]

I think he means when will the information on the disk rot... he's not that stupid.

Yes, clearly, the information on the disc is totally seperate and unrelated to the physical etchings in the surface that the laser reads. :P

[Soluzar]

Pressed DVDs are good for a few decades. Recordable DVDs should be considered good for six months to a year, maximum. Much less if you're buying your media at anything less than 50c per disc. Just because you can get discs for 20c each doesn't mean that you should.

[Satsumaru]

Pressed DVDs are good for a few decades. Recordable DVDs should be considered good for six months to a year, maximum. Much less if you're buying your media at anything less than 50c per disc. Just because you can get discs for 20c each doesn't mean that you should.

My 50cents dvds ares still working fine, and its been 3+ years :|

[dr ochanomizu]

I've been thinking about this lately. And was wondering, how do you prevent it? How long does a DVD take to become "Unreadable."

And will cleaning said DVD fix this DVD rot?
Disc fade is real. This depend on the burner you have, speed that was burned and the software that was used to burn optical discs. Above all the quality of the media, not all media is the same; it varies from the cheap to the top tier:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

According toCouncil on Library and Information Resources Q &A: (http://www.clir.org/PUBS/reports/pub121/sec4.html)

4. How Long Can You Store CDs and DVDs and Use Them Again?

* type
* manufacturing quality
* condition of the disc before recording
* quality of the disc recording
* handling and maintenance
* environmental conditions

There are lots of information on this site; I won't summerize all of the article but here's some tips to keep your disc fresh...

If the disc needs cleaning, remember these tips:

* Use an air puffer to blow off dust.
* Use a soft cotton cloth or chamois to wipe the disc.
* Try cleaning with a dry cloth first, before using any cleaning -solutions.
* Do not wipe in a direction going around the disc.
* Wipe from the center of the disc straight toward the outer edge.
* Avoid using paper products, including lens paper, to wipe the disc.
* Avoid using anything abrasive on the surface of the disc.
* If the disc has a heavy accumulation of dirt, try rinsing it with water first.
* Use commercially available water-based detergent formulated for cleaning the surface of optical discs.
* Use isopropyl alcohol or methanol, as an alternate to water-based detergents, to clean the disc surface.

5.1.1 Temperature and Relative Humidity

Optical discs will perform well within a wide range of temperature and relative humidity conditions. Discs kept in a cooler, less-humid environment and not subjected to extreme environmental changes should last longer. Optical discs stored in an optimal environment will outlast discs that are not.

TS

[Solid_Snake]

Thank you everyone for the info.

So will the plastic covers for the bottom of the DVD's(AKA DVD condoms.) be good for longer life? I'm asuming they would.

So I take it backing up my DVD collection on external Hard Drives is unrealistic? :(

[Hopelesromantic]

So I can see two details that bear up under scrutiny.

Nothing is forever.

And there's no free lunch :)

Movies I would say put out the effort.

Games, well I suppose they get dated and or boring faster than the media lifespan.

Vital data, I suppose nothing competes with original hard copy. Thus, I am glad I have a large book collection hehe.

[Soluzar]

My 50cents dvds ares still working fine, and its been 3+ years :|
Luck. There's probably been some random bit-drift on there that you don't know about, because it's either been handled by the error-correction code, or because it's not in an important part of the disc.

Then you could have used one of the decent discs. Just so everyone knows, when buying discs, it is pointless to go by brand. Everyone thinks Verbatim discs are good, but Verbatim don't make any of their own discs. So when you buy verbatim, you could be getting any one of several discs that have just been branded Verbatim. They sometimes use Taiyo Yuden, which are the best discs money can buy. If you're lucky and pick up a batch of TY when you're buying Verbatim, then you will expect them to last a little longer than average.

My point is that you can't depend on recordable discs to last longer than a year. They might, but they probably won't.

Games, well I suppose they get dated and or boring faster than the media lifespan.
Here speaks a man who has no true love for gaming. I can think of some games that I would not get bored of before the media wore out. Assuming that I should live so long.

I'm not saying I'd play it constantly, but there are games I come back to after ten years.

[Lord Dagoth]

It makes me sad to know that all my DVDs, Games, and CDs are going to be worthless pieces of plastic in 30 years

[Soluzar]

It makes me sad to know that all my DVDs, Games, and CDs are going to be worthless pieces of plastic in 30 years
It doesn't bother me so much about the movie DVDs and music CDs, because such things will always be re-released, and probably always remain available. It bothers me a whole lot about my games, though. Considering some of the first generation of CD games are over a decade old already, it bothers me a whole lot.

[Hajime Saitou]

It doesn't bother me so much about the movie DVDs and music CDs, because such things will always be re-released, and probably always remain available. It bothers me a whole lot about my games, though. Considering some of the first generation of CD games are over a decade old already, it bothers me a whole lot.

I have all of my treasured games backed up on one of my HDs. I bought a 500GB external one just for this reason alone. Considering the old ones are only on one CD, that makes for at least 500 games to back up(even assuming 700MB max for each game, you still have plenty of extra room). Of course there are multiple-CD games, but still, how many of us have 500 games that are archive worthy.

[Satsumaru]

Thank you everyone for the info.

So will the plastic covers for the bottom of the DVD's(AKA DVD condoms.) be good for longer life? I'm asuming they would.

So I take it baking up my DVD collection on external Hard Drives is unrealistic? :(

I have all of my treasured games backed up on one of my HDs. I bought a 500GB external one just for this reason alone. Considering the old ones are only on one CD, that makes for at least 500 games to back up(even assuming 700MB max for each game, you still have plenty of extra room). Of course there are multiple-CD games, but still, how many of us have 500 games that are archive worthy.
I have heard from a fairly reliable source that optical media will last the longest. Therefore outlasting Harddrives.

[Soluzar]

I have heard from a fairly reliable source that optical media will last the longest. Therefore outlasting Harddrives.
Maybe so, maybe not so... I bet that if you're tranferring your data to a new hard drive every so often, that would make it pretty well immortal. Better yet, fully-mirrored RAID array.

[Solid_Snake]

Heh. Good luck to me backing it up, though. 250+ DVDs and 250+ Games to back up? Ha!

[Soluzar]

Heh. Good luck to me backing it up, though. 250+ DVDs and 250+ Games to back up? Ha!
If they are mainly pressed discs, then I really wouldn't worry about it. Just keep them in an area with stable temperature and humidity, out of the sun, and stored either in their original cases or in some kind of binder, and you will maximize their lifespan. When stored under optimal conditions, they will probably outlive the hardware required to use them. Especially in the case of console games.

[Hajime Saitou]

I have heard from a fairly reliable source that optical media will last the longest. Therefore outlasting Harddrives.

I honestly don't know if optical media will last longer than a hard drive, but that wasn't really why I did it anyway. Yes, I wanted to archive all of my games, but I also wanted them to be virtual CD's(bite me copy protection). They run smoother, loading times are shorter, and I don't have to worry about the CD's getting damaged(the whole point of this thread).

It's just a matter of convenience for me. Plus it only cost me about $150. My first computer's hard drive still works and it's about 15 years old, so even if I only have to replace this HD every 15 years, that comes out to an average of 10 dollars a year, which I consider a fair price for a permanent archive.

[Satsumaru]

. Yes, I wanted to archive all of my games, but I also wanted them to be virtual CD's(bite me copy protection). They run smoother, loading times are shorter, and I don't have to worry about the CD's getting damaged(the whole point of this thread).
:lol: Then we're much alike. Tho I don't really have too many things that runs on virtual drive(mine are either movies or ps2 games).

*Not directed at Hajime Saitou* Say, wouldn't tape storage be a worthy competitor? :lol:

[Hajime Saitou]

:lol: Then we're much alike. Tho I don't really have too many things that runs on virtual drive(mine are either movies or ps2 games).

*Not directed at Hajime Saitou* Say, wouldn't tape storage be a worthy competitor? :lol:

If you are taking the actual DVD's and ripping them(once again bite me copy protection) to your computer, a normal ISO will run in a virtual drive. If it's those other kind of movies, then nevermind ;)

[Satsumaru]

If you are taking the actual DVD's and ripping them(once again bite me copy protection) to your computer, a normal ISO will run in a virtual drive. If it's those other kind of movies, then nevermind ;)
I just play those on my DVD player :lol: I hardly ever rip movies off rented anyways. Fansubs ftw, thats what you gotta resort to in New Zealand. We're behind on Everything.

[Ketaru]

Just to get a different sort of perspective on this:

How long did VHS and cassette tapes used to last, assuming you put the same effort into making sure they last as you would into a DVD/CD?

[tenshi_a]

I've got audio tapes that are about 25 years old that still work ok... and vinyl records that are about 50 years old that still work (78rpm! woo!)... seems silly that people "upgraded" from a technology that degraded gracefully into a technology that's perfect for a while then becomes *nothing* after that time...

I've seen the Rosetta Stone in the British Museum; seems to be doing a lot better, all things considered...

[Soluzar]

I've got audio tapes that are about 25 years old that still work ok... and vinyl records that are about 50 years old that still work (78rpm! woo!)... seems silly that people "upgraded" from a technology that degraded gracefully into a technology that's perfect for a while then becomes *nothing* after that time...
To be fair, nobody really knew when they were introduced what would happen to optical media as they got older. A well-manufactured CD or DVD would last for much longer than most products available on the market in any case. Corners are being cut.

It's also the case that optical media offer many advantages over the technologies that preceded them in other areas. Undoubtedly we'll see an improvement in longevity with the next generation of technology. However, I don't mean Blu-Ray or HD DVD. I mean the generation that is to follow.

[Tenou]

I've got audio tapes that are about 25 years old that still work ok... and vinyl records that are about 50 years old that still work (78rpm! woo!)... seems silly that people "upgraded" from a technology that degraded gracefully into a technology that's perfect for a while then becomes *nothing* after that time...

I've seen the Rosetta Stone in the British Museum; seems to be doing a lot better, all things considered...
Ha! When I was younger I watched The Last Unicorn every night to put me to sleep. I would watch the same VHS until the video and audio were so bad that I had to buy another. I went through a several VHS before it was released on VHS.
Now, Dogma (my replacement for favourite bedtime movie) shows no signs of wearing out after... I think about 5 or 6 years, but a VHS would.

My Dogma has actually out lasted 3 DVD players.

And that's why I like DVDs more than VHS.

[tenshi_a]

Hmmm.... longevity isn't a priority with any manufacturers anymore. Everything is built specifically to not last. Car parts are designed to fall apart after X amount of time. Perfectly good buildings are knocked down to be replaced by generic "lego" type constructions (staircase goes here, room goes there). Clothing is cheaper to replace than repair. Everything is designed to be sold and resold as much as possible.

Media is no different. The technological industry especially expects its products to be constantly near-obsolete, so you can spend and waste a little more every day...

EDIT: A note about my post earlier... how well tape lasts really depends on your environment. I know my family living in Singapore/Malaysia never had any videotape around because it doesn't last long at all in that humid heat... (I guess that's one reason VCDs took off so well over there)

[Ketaru]

So we're dealing with 2 types of lifespans here? Longevity and...I guess mileage...

[Soluzar]

So we're dealing with 2 types of lifespans here? Longevity and...I guess mileage...
Quite so. The more you use a videotape, or an audiotape, the more it will degrade. particles of the ferric compound which contains the magnetic charges which make up the data will be deposited on the tape heads, and particles of grime will find their way onto the tape. The signal-to-noise ratio will get worse and worse, and the tape will eventually become unusable.

However, if you store a tape, it will survive for a very long time. Assuming that you keep it safe from stray magnetic fields.

An optical medium has precisely the opposite properties. No matter how many times you play it, it will not degrade. Since it is digital in nature, the concept of signal-to-noise ratio only applies to the encoded information. It will always remain a perfect copy of that which is encoded upon it, until the day that one or more parts of the disc become unreadable. I believe that the corruption of optical media is caused by imperfect seals at the hub and at the rim which allow air to get into the disc, causing oxidation, but I could be wrong.

[Neo0tak0n]

some fungi can grow on discs