Global Warming

[Rain]

What are your personal thoughts regarding this global environmental crisis?

Recently, I had to take an exam in Geography class, and the essay question which was asked that was worth a bulk of the marks was: Al Gore mentioned in the movie, An Inconvenient Truth, that Global Warming was a moral issue and not a political issue. Explain what you think he means by this, and support your answer with various examples, etc.

Do you think Global Warming is dangerously detrimental to our Earth's sustainability? Do you think Global Warming is an environmental issue that we should even be concerned about? Is it already too late to halt the "destruction" of our planet?

Note: I don't want this thread to be closed, so please keep it civil.

[Jon]

Well, 30 years ago people were claiming it was getting too cold, and now they're complaning that it's going to get too hot. Quite frankly I think global warming is not taking palce and the Earth getting warmer and cooler is just part of a natural cycle.

And Mel, where the heck have you been?

[Lord Timaeus]

I try to have a neutral view on it, just like everything else. But I'd prefer we play it safe and cut back on emissions, just in case there's at least some truth to global warming. It's part of the reason why I don't have a car.

[tenshi_a]

I think it doesn't really matter whether or not global warming will or will not happen; everyone should do their best to look after the environment regardless. The world is in your hands!!

[she says, typing away at a computer, with the stereo on, the lights on, a game console and monitor on behind her, next to a few piles of CDs and DVDs which all amount to a load of plastic]

...um... sometimes I even forgo public transport and walk home!

[fail]

[Undrave]

'global warming' is not a correct term. 'Climate change' is more appropriate. In other words we get more extreme weathers.

This year in Canada we didn't significant snowfalls until december 26. It was the first time in my entire life that I didn't get a white Christmas. Now we get -34 degree celsius temperature and the like as artic air flows down from the north.

Meanwhile in BC they got all sorts of problem, including terrible winds that ravaged trees and houses alike.

So don't try to tell me the climate isn't changing.

Now... sure you can argue the cause of the change but let me ask you this: what harm would it do us to reduce our emission and energy consumption? If not the global climate it would certainly make the air more breathable and water cleaner for us.

I'm not quite sure was Mr. Gore meant by 'moral issue', I'd need to see his movie first.

[MonkeyBoy0314]

'global warming' is not a correct term. 'Climate change' is more appropriate. In other words we get more extreme weathers.

I gotta agree with Kamen Rider Kabuto, except for one thing...

I believe that we're still coming out of the last ice age, but the change in climate are being accelerated just the slightest bit by the burning and everything that we're doing. Nothing worth worrying about, though.

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

Let me tell you all some facts.First of all ever since the industrial revoultion humanity has been producing more carbon dioxide than ever before,this gas keeps in heat.A natural agent for this planet,but there can be too much of a good thing.The USA is only now starting to realise its the main factor contributing to this.

More CO2 in the atmosphere means the oceans will rise,as a result from the ice and polar ice caps melting.Islands will sink,Great Britain will dissapear and some parts of the USA will sink.

Some may be in denial because humans are effecting the planet,it is something hard to grasp.If this can be done sencibly,then Global Warming does not need to happen at all.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Some may be in denial because humans are effecting the planet,it is something hard to grasp.If this can be done sencibly,then Global Warming does not need to happen at all.

No it will occour regardless of what we do or do not do. You could just as well tell the earth not to orbit or tell the sun not to have a nuclear reaction.


It is a natural shift and has precedence on a gelogical time scale. We are in an exceptionally stable period that may end at any time. People are myopic in their views of what is normal weather is someone mentioned late snow in Canada. It would snow until mid summer even as late as August in the Northeastern US until the early 19th century. What happend was the little ice age ended we warmed up. It will eventually cool down again then warm up. There is nothing you can do about it, politicians and scientist see a way to milk money out of a populace so you get movies, clubs, and all sorts of other BS scaring money out of people.

[CrossboneGundam]

Well, 30 years ago people were claiming it was getting too cold, and now they're complaning that it's going to get too hot. Quite frankly I think global warming is not taking palce and the Earth getting warmer and cooler is just part of a natural cycle.

I take it you haven't heard about the Bush Administration essentially giving up their fight to keep the science under wraps by starting legislation to put the Polar Bear on the endangered species list.

I'm sure they'll keep editing, censoring and doctoring official reports out of NASA, the NSF, the Pentagon, etc. to make them sound like Global Warming isn't a problem, though.

Yeah, even the Pentagon has done research and has concluded that A. It's real B. We're the cause and C. It could have dire consequences if left unchecked.

No it will occour regardless of what we do or do not do. You could just as well tell the earth not to orbit or tell the sun not to have a nuclear reaction.


It is a natural shift and has precedence on a gelogical time scale. We are in an exceptionally stable period that may end at any time. People are myopic in their views of what is normal weather is someone mentioned late snow in Canada. It would snow until mid summer even as late as August in the Northeastern US until the early 19th century. What happend was the little ice age ended we warmed up. It will eventually cool down again then warm up. There is nothing you can do about it, politicians and scientist see a way to milk money out of a populace so you get movies, clubs, and all sorts of other BS scaring money out of people.

And you're basing this on what evidence, exactly?

[Rain]

And Mel, where the heck have you been?

Nowhere.

'global warming' is not a correct term. 'Climate change' is more appropriate. In other words we get more extreme weathers.

Global Warming is not a correct term? Global Warming is a more specific term, but whoever said that it was incorrect?

Wait... who are you? Mr. Environmental Science committee?

Climate change is only one of the many ramifications that Global Warming can give rise to.

Now... sure you can argue the cause of the change but let me ask you this: what harm would it do us to reduce our emission and energy consumption? If not the global climate it would certainly make the air more breathable and water cleaner for us.

The above isn't a question that you should be asking, since you're only asking the blatantly obvious.

I'm not quite sure was Mr. Gore meant by 'moral issue', I'd need to see his movie first.

Surprisingly, I never watched the documentary film, either, since it was propagandized to no end.

On another note, though: you'd definitely fail the Geography exam I took.

Let me tell you all some facts.First of all ever since the industrial revoultion humanity has been producing more carbon dioxide than ever before,this gas keeps in heat.A natural agent for this planet,but there can be too much of a good thing.The USA is only now starting to realise its the main factor contributing to this.

The greenhouse gases that contribute to Global Warming are: chlorofluorocarbons, carbon dioxide, methane, water vapor, and ozone. Carbon dioxide is not the sole cause of Global Warming.

More CO2 in the atmosphere means the oceans will rise,as a result from the ice and polar ice caps melting.Islands will sink,Great Britain will dissapear and some parts of the USA will sink.

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) destroy the ozone layer, while carbon dioxide traps the outgoing longwave (solar) radiation by reducing radiational cooling, hence causing the global average surface temperature to rise. Subsequently, sea levels will rise due to the rapid melting of the polar icecaps in the Arctic.

[Vaikyuko]

I think global warming is a bit overhyped (so to speak), especially with the advent of An Inconvienent Truth (which was pretty much superpropaganda anyways). I don't see it as a ridiculous problem that must be taken care of within the next ten years or we'll all die (as most environmentalists I've dealt with tend to suggest), but I'm sure that reducing emissions and such will help.

Then again, maybe it won't, because with more people and a rapidly growing global population, with each person wanting their own car and this and that; it's almost pointless anyways, especially since war/genocide are so frowned upon in the current age, as opposed to hundreds of years ago when a king would start a war practically for kicks or because another king dissed him.

[CrossboneGundam]

About the term "Climate Change," that was coined by a political advisor/consultant who basically is paid to make up new terms for for bad things to make them sound good (or less bad.) I forget his name, but there was a PBS show that had an interview with him... He came up with things like "stay the course (keep throwing bodies at the problem)," "climate change (global warming)," "tax relief (tax cuts)," "death tax (estate tax)," etc.

[Joeshie]

It will eventually cool down again then warm up. There is nothing you can do about it, politicians and scientist see a way to milk money out of a populace so you get movies, clubs, and all sorts of other BS scaring money out of people.

What evidence do you have to say that the majority of scientific community that says the increase of temperature is attributed to human activities is doing so out of personal greed?

It's pretty hard to turn a blind eye to the overwhelming evidence that shows that humans are, in some way, causing global warming.

I mean, who cares what scientists say. The average joe obviously knows much more about it than they do. All I can say that if it does become a problem, you can expect to see an unprecedented death toll across the planet.

[kenshinbebop]

I don't know if global warming is to blame or not, but I'm damn pissed that there hasn't been more than a centimeter of snow this winter and it's alraedy the beginning of February.

****ing TEXAS had more snow than us.

[Holy Knight]

Debating whether it's happening or not is irrelevant. Protecting the environment is. Therefore, if new technologies are put on the market which benefit us both in scientific advances as well as being environmentally friendly, then that's good enough for me.

Whatever happens, happens. We're human, so we addapt to the mistakes we do and will keep on doing. If we have to live in a submerged world in 15-20 years, then so be it. New ways of living will crop up as well as a nice trimming of those who cannot survive.

It may be a fatalistic way of looking at the world, but that's what it's going to have to be if we decide to keep the course.

[Bernard_Monsha]

And you're basing this on what evidence, exactly?

The entire record of the Pleistocene and Holocene era. There is a big difference between 1,000,000 and 150 you know.


What evidence do you have to say that the majority of scientific community that says the increase of temperature is attributed to human activities is doing so out of personal greed?

It's pretty hard to turn a blind eye to the overwhelming evidence that shows that humans are, in some way, causing global warming.

I mean, who cares what scientists say. The average joe obviously knows much more about it than they do. All I can say that if it does become a problem, you can expect to see an unprecedented death toll across the planet.

The scientific community is divded over it, about 50/50. With a large percentage of Geologist, Geophycist and Astrophysics. These people of course do not get grants from X groups who are opposed to X political group or lobbying group. Science has long been in the control of people who give grants to the point is is not uncommon today for data to be fudged in order to get a grant.

As there is no consensus and press coverage and pop culture does not indicate validity. There are simply too many factors from the earths orbit, the suns cycles, and vulcanism. Believe it or not we have been around for a tiny amount of time, yet for some reason the variation of temperature and enviroment beset other animals more rapidly than it has us. The word as we know it today was not the world of 10,000 or even 500 years ago. There actions were not performed by men but by nature and often happend rapidly enough to wipe out entire civilizations within a decade or two.

[master terrence]

once upon time there was an Ice Age... now it's just ****ing hot.

Does global warming exist? well duh the climate is going to change and most likely to the warmer side (as of what we've seen with glaciers).

Has it been happening? Yes and No. Earth can get warmer from alot of things like asphalt roads. Some weather thingies(I forget what those things are where a bunch of scientists just collect weather data, it happens.) report a drop in temperature. It may not be very global.

What should we do? be enviormentally conscience because not to long ago... RIVERS WOULD CATCH ON FIRE!!! lets not have that happen again. I don't know what to say about the kyoto treaty, but it seems worthless.


on another note, I think earths climate naturally changes anyways... Volcanoes for instance.

[CrossboneGundam]

The entire record of the Pleistocene and Holocene era. There is a big difference between 1,000,000 and 150 you know.




The scientific community is divded over it, about 50/50. With a large percentage of Geologist, Geophycist and Astrophysics. These people of course do not get grants from X groups who are opposed to X political group or lobbying group. Science has long been in the control of people who give grants to the point is is not uncommon today for data to be fudged in order to get a grant.

As there is no consensus and press coverage and pop culture does not indicate validity. There are simply too many factors from the earths orbit, the suns cycles, and vulcanism. Believe it or not we have been around for a tiny amount of time, yet for some reason the variation of temperature and enviroment beset other animals more rapidly than it has us. The word as we know it today was not the world of 10,000 or even 500 years ago. There actions were not performed by men but by nature and often happend rapidly enough to wipe out entire civilizations within a decade or two.

So, you should be aware that at least one major mass-extinction in Earth's known geological history just happens to coincide with a rapid increase in the temperature (apparently from large amounts of methane suddenly released into the atmosphere, as found in ice core samples,) then?

Also, how is it that Polar Bears haven't already drowned? They're not able to survive outside of the frozen arctic environment they're specifically adapted to.

At any rate, you haven't substantiated your suggestion that global warming is some sort of nefarious conspiracy by greedy scientists and politicians yet.

[master terrence]

since when do politicians NOT milk something for money or votes???

Why did An Inconvienent Truth play in theatres where all the preppy kids go to hang out? What the hell kind of documentary gets played at Muvico...

I've seen great Documentaries on Dolphins at Imax... but Muvico... the only documentaries they play are by M.Moore... and we all know about that.

[Joeshie]

The scientific community is divded over it, about 50/50. With a large percentage of Geologist, Geophycist and Astrophysics. These people of course do not get grants from X groups who are opposed to X political group or lobbying group. Science has long been in the control of people who give grants to the point is is not uncommon today for data to be fudged in order to get a grant.

The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century... The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue. (http://books.nap.edu/html/climatechange/summary.html)

Article on the scientific communities stance on global warming. (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686)

There are dozens and dozens of other other scientific organizations that say the same thing. The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the US National Academy of Sciences, the American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, the Federal Climate Change Science Program, and many more. From what I have observed, the majority of the scientific community agrees that humans are partially responsible for global warming.

Another point to make, is that there are hundreds of businesses that are opposed to accepting global warming as they would have to cut back on CO2 emissions if the position becomes more popular. No doubt that they have also had some pull on attempting to lessen the concern over global warming. Hell, I remember hearing how Exxon mobile was secretly funding global warming critics.

As there is no consensus and press coverage and pop culture does not indicate validity. There are simply too many factors from the earths orbit, the suns cycles, and vulcanism. Believe it or not we have been around for a tiny amount of time, yet for some reason the variation of temperature and enviroment beset other animals more rapidly than it has us. The word as we know it today was not the world of 10,000 or even 500 years ago. There actions were not performed by men but by nature and often happend rapidly enough to wipe out entire civilizations within a decade or two.

I know of the extreme climate conditions that have occurred over the course of Earth history. While it very well might be caused by or partially by natural causes, I would rather be safe than sorry.

[Evil_Koala]

I think it's fa rill. Not like it was depicted in an Inconvenient Truth, or in The Day After Tomorrow...But fa rill. Like, our water table down here is droppin. And less rainfall each year...But actually, now It's been colder than it's ever been as far as I can remember. Two snow days, bout to have another one...But we should cut back on emissions, and like pick up trash. Don't do drugs. Stay in School. I'm super serial. Also...It's not completely due to humans. We may have added some sparks, but overall...It's cows...and the poles are changing...Manbearpig and whatnot...

[{NG}Fidel]

I feel that regardless of weather it is real or not the steps being taken to stop global warming (if its their or not) are good steps and we should continue.

[Hopelesromantic]

I'll sidestep the whole problem of proving/disproving global warming, and let ya know, mankind faces actually several other very real very tangible potential civilization rending global disasters on top of the potential of global warming.

One easy example, the volcano under Yellowstone. Pray it doesn't blow in your lifetime.

Our magnetic shield is showing signs of shifting again. Pray it too doesn't happen in your lifetime.

For east coast North Americans, pray the Canary Islands volcano doesn't pop in your life time.

Our freshwater reserves in underground aquifiers are becoming near exhausted. That should worry you.

As you can see, the whole Global Warming debate is just one of several REAL concerns on a long list.

And you younguns have sooooooo much more reason to worry than me. I've already used up half my lifespan unlike you guys.

[Haro!]

I think that global warming is one of the few dangers to the Earth (or rather produced by the earth?) that man can help reduce. Many of the other dangers like the ones described by Hoplesromantic, cannot be avoided. I don't think enough research has been done to say whether our current problem of global warming has been produced largely by man. Nor is there enough research to sufficiently say that by taking all the necessary CO2 reducing steps global warming would cease. The best way to know I think would be to actually put some of these things into practice. I say maybe try to get car companies to reduce emissions from cars, get China and India to stop using all their dirty coal based power plants. We see how that all works out. See if a dent is made so to speak. Then move forward if we have to.

[Mort]

I saw this the other day and makes me wounder how much global warming there is.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020015034521data_trunc_sys.shtml

[Reidar]

You are aware that that link acknowledges global warming within the first sentence, right? It's exemplifying Antarctica as a distinguished exception.

[Evil_Koala]

Jesus is coming back!!!

[GreatNekoKoneko]

... there is no such thing as Global Warming. its all just a ploy made by some liberal Hippie chodes back in the day, since everybody started caring about the war with the commies. so someone needed to divert their attention (and funding) to a somewhat more "environmental-friendly" cause. sure, there are "holes" in the "ozone layer" - but these things are bound to happen. can you really stop man from doing what he does best - destroying himself?

[Hopelesromantic]

Here's one truth that not one of you can deny or refute.

The climate IS definitely changing, and in a manner NOT benefitial to our species globally.

Just look around at the weird stuff occuring. Now, keep in mind, that if this ONLY happens for an inconvenient span of say 50 years, and then mellows out again, will YOU enjoy just sitting around and taking the punishment?

Think on this, do YOU think it would be ideal, to just sit on the Gulf Coast of America, and say "well it's not America's fault", and by saying that, the next bad hurricane will magically not matter.

We are experiencing bad droughts, considerable sums of forest fires, major flooding, increasingly violent storm patterns, record setting amounts of thaw in our polar areas.
And no one is developing ways to cope.

We stand a chance of a major die off of our northern North American Polar bear population. And I can assure you, when you start losing your top predators it's serious.

By the way, YOU are a top predator, you just don't realise it.

The planet will live, and in 1 million years, it won't matter if we ruin the ecosystem or not. We could drop all of our nukes, and guess what, it would not be possible to know if that event ever happened in a million years.

Climate change is inevitable, it's happening, and who is to blame would be nice to know. But, wouldn't you like to at least see someone trying to make riding it out a little less traumatic.

Their rebuilding New Orleans in such a way as to give mother nature the finger.
Frankly, when the next hurricane arrives, all the retards that ignored the lesson are on their own. The last time I felt bad for them, the next time I will likely be laughing at them.

[Ikari Warrior]

It was my understanding (and I apologize for not being able to cite a source on this) that the amount of CO2 emissions being put out by humanity as a whole are actually quite scant in comparison to those of volcanoes. Also, let's not put TOO much blame on the USA, here. In the past 20-30 years, cars have been put through much more rigorous emissions standards. Your "check engine" light comes on when your emissions pass a threshold of about 92%. Meaning if more than 8% of your car's emissions are coming out, rather than being filtered properly, then you get a notice to fix it.

I don't think there's any one person or nation to blame for CO2 emissions. Certainly, the USA had been the worst perpetrator, but between hybrids and some all-electric cars, this country is taking a few steps in the right direction. We must also consider booming nations, though. China is very rapidly growing, and as such has enormous petrol needs. If every country of the world can convert to all-electric cars, then that would be a huge ecological step in the right direction, I think.

Personally, I've seen enough evidence to be convinced that Global Warming is a bunch of propaganda and hype. It's something else to argue about while companies and politicians reap the benefits. As far as I can tell, it's the most powerful movement to convince the USA to give up foreign oil, and instead cut down the consumption of fossil fuels altogether, keeping more money in the US, instead of giving money to OPEC. But, I digress, I'm positive this issue is MUCH more complicated than what I've thought about.

[Mort]

You are aware that that link acknowledges global warming within the first sentence, right? It's exemplifying Antarctica as a distinguished exception.

yes, I know that I acknowledge it. I have to many reports not to. but When I see this kind of thing it makes me wounder how a place like antarctica is cooling off and not following anything colse to the models. It makes me think twice about how serious it is or that the models are wrong andthat there is no global warming.

[Takkun-chan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgE_mkR2oac

I think this will explain a few things about Global Warming.

[Dark_Shiki]

I think this planet does have a natural warming-cooling cycle, but that's not to say we didn't help it along. I do have to say I agree with a previous poster about many other real threats that are present as far as natural disasters go. I also won't be surprised if we end up destroying ourselves first. Call me optimistic. *sarcasm*
I do believe however we should take care of this world we call home, because it's likely the only one we'll ever have. The chances are slim that we will ever have the technology or resources to travel to space to search for another, and the odds of actually finding one like Earth are very much against us.

Another point to make regarding climate change is that it will affect many of our food supplies, such as crops, livestock, water, etc. So it is somewhat reasonable to worry a bit about the potential future we're looking at. Not to mention many of the other species that maintain the natural order of things in the ecosystem overall. I for one found it surprising that polar bears were being found drowned, I'm sure if this did happen occasionally it would normally be rare. There have also been reports of abandoned walrus pups due to the fact that the population of food their mothers depend on is declining, and they can't afford to feed both themselves and their offspring.

There are lots of instances like this that are not widely heard, but they are happenening. The food chain is being affected by this change, and sooner or lately it will affect us. Regardless of how well we adapt to change, there are still many elements of nature we depend on. Crops and produce are dependant on good weather with rainy seasons and such, livestock are also dependant on the ability to grow their food and supply enough water, and with higher instances of bad weather or drought it will be harder to keep them healthy in condition. Just my 2 cents. ~Angela

[vitaminR]

[color=royalblue]What are your personal thoughts regarding this global environmental crisis?

-----

Do you think Global Warming is dangerously detrimental to our Earth's sustainability? Do you think Global Warming is an environmental issue that we should even be concerned about? Is it already too late to halt the "destruction" of our planet?


I believe that humes will eventually destroy the planet...
We can only slow it down...

If anyone needs to know CO2 (as in carbon dioxide...) traps heat... due to it's density.

I can tell you that, I'm starting to feel it... I remember that it used to rain like hell in southern california... (it's always been warm)
But the past few years have been hell....

I would preach this too.. tell ppl to not make as much emmisions...
But it is hopeless.. there is always some skeptic...
Besides... I probably won't live long enough to actually know the TRUE meaning of hell...
It's our children & our children's children who will pay for our mistakes....

I've tried preaching before... (bush).. and guess what? The as*hole still got re-elected...

[Joeshie]

It was my understanding (and I apologize for not being able to cite a source on this) that the amount of CO2 emissions being put out by humanity as a whole are actually quite scant in comparison to those of volcanoes.

It's actually the other way around. Volcano emissions is quite scant in comparison to humanity's emissions. (http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html)

More references. (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/223957/72)

Certainly, the USA had been the worst perpetrator, but between hybrids and some all-electric cars, this country is taking a few steps in the right direction.

Sure, we are just starting to take some small steps in the right direction, but we are largely behind the world in taking these steps. Only when the prices sky-rocketed did America start to care about hybrids and electric cars, rather than due to a concern about the environment. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3143798.stm)

[Hopelesromantic]

Just watched a made for tv 2006 film called Magma Volcanic Disaster.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0445548/

Hehe now remember, cheese makes great pizzas eh :)

I had fun watching the film. The science in it is so utterly craptastic that no one need initiate pointing out all the factual errors (the whole film is bogus hehe). But it was still "fun" to watch. Actually it was more fun than I expected. I only watched it from total abject boredom on a sunday afternoon eh.

Wouldn't it be incredible if there was even one factually accurate portion in this film though.

[Len]

We will all drown by 2080. :) Enjoy your day.

[HSaabedra]

We're going to evolve on December 21, 2012.

[Len]

Evolution will cause a rift in time which makes global warming intensify, making us all toast by 2018, but a time machine will be created and send us into the year 1780 and we will have to relive everything and prolong global warming until 2080 where we will all die.

[Rain]

We may have added some sparks, but overall...It's cows...and the poles are changing...Manbearpig and whatnot...

I don't know if you were serious when you made this statement, but did you know methane—one of the greenhouse gases—is made in the stomach of cows?

Yeah, The Day After Tomorrow was a movie with superb special effects, but it wasn't an accurate or factual depiction of Global Warming. On the other hand, An Inconvenient Truth was a "documentary" film which was propagandized to disseminate Al Gore's political dogma.

I feel that regardless of weather it is real or not the steps being taken to stop global warming (if its their or not) are good steps and we should continue.

I am of the same mind; though many people are still preoccupied with the "one person can't change anything" mentality.

I'll sidestep the whole problem of proving/disproving global warming, and let ya know, mankind faces actually several other very real very tangible potential civilization rending global disasters on top of the potential of global warming.

One easy example, the volcano under Yellowstone. Pray it doesn't blow in your lifetime.

Our magnetic shield is showing signs of shifting again. Pray it too doesn't happen in your lifetime.

For east coast North Americans, pray the Canary Islands volcano doesn't pop in your life time.

Our freshwater reserves in underground aquifiers are becoming near exhausted. That should worry you.

As you can see, the whole Global Warming debate is just one of several REAL concerns on a long list.

So?

The above four phenomena are natural phenomena which are not within our control. We, humans, can't obviate deadly volcanic eruptions, we can only monitor volcanic activity.

However, with that said, we can substantially reduce carbon dioxide (and other greenhouse gas) emissions, use replacement compounds for CFCs such as HFCs in aerosol products and the like, as CFCs have been proved—with conclusive evidence—to be a catalytic agent in ozone destruction, and reduce the burning of fossil fuels by adopting energy-efficient policies.

Reference: http://www.ciesin.org/docs/011-434/011-434.html

can you really stop man from doing what he does best - destroying himself?

Man isn't self-destructing, man is destroying his planet.

Additionally, are you suggesting that it is mere coincidence that the catatrosphic natural disasters, the disappearance of large Arctic icecaps, and the extreme weather patterns, etc. all seem to be happening in this century?

Oh, this shows how much I love Consumerism.

It was my understanding (and I apologize for not being able to cite a source on this) that the amount of CO2 emissions being put out by humanity as a whole are actually quite scant in comparison to those of volcanoes.

Let me ask you this: how many volcanoes erupt every year?

Apparently, this source (http://www.volcanolive.com/vei.html) reports that only about fifty to sixty eruptions happen every year, and even then only about twenty to thirty are explosive.

Anyway, to refute your argument are two sources: http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html, and
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.

Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!

I don't think there's any one person or nation to blame for CO2 emissions. Certainly, the USA had been the worst perpetrator, but between hybrids and some all-electric cars, this country is taking a few steps in the right direction. We must also consider booming nations, though. China is very rapidly growing, and as such has enormous petrol needs. If every country of the world can convert to all-electric cars, then that would be a huge ecological step in the right direction, I think.

Industrialized nations will naturally be considered to be the main contributors of astronomically high greenhouse emissions.

I don't understand why everyone has to get all defensive about America, since this is obviously a global environmental issue, and not one distinct country is to blame.

[CrossboneGundam]

I'll sidestep the whole problem of proving/disproving global warming, and let ya know, mankind faces actually several other very real very tangible potential civilization rending global disasters on top of the potential of global warming.

One easy example, the volcano under Yellowstone. Pray it doesn't blow in your lifetime.

Our magnetic shield is showing signs of shifting again. Pray it too doesn't happen in your lifetime.

For east coast North Americans, pray the Canary Islands volcano doesn't pop in your life time.

Our freshwater reserves in underground aquifiers are becoming near exhausted. That should worry you.

As you can see, the whole Global Warming debate is just one of several REAL concerns on a long list.

And you younguns have sooooooo much more reason to worry than me. I've already used up half my lifespan unlike you guys.

Volcanoes aren't something we can influence.

Same with Earth's magnetic field. And a change in polarity in it is a regular occurence (once every 200,000 years or so,) and the worst result for us would be increased cancer rates in some places.

[Hara!]

There is no such thing as global warming. It´s just some hippies complaining because they can´t comprehend unpredictable weather.

[Len]

We can control volcanoes we just need to believe that we will develope something in the future and our natural strive to match the future will make us find a way.

[Len]

There is no such thing as global warming. It´s just some hippies complaining because they can´t comprehend unpredictable weather.

You're the kind of person I wish I could kill.

[Hara!]

You're the kind of person I wish I could kill.

Hmmm... You sound like my mother, girlfriend, and Hilary Clinton.

[Len]

Hmmm... You sound like my mother, girlfriend, and Hilary Clinton.

Perhaps you just wish I was all three.

[Rain]

We can control volcanoes we just need to believe that we will develope something in the future and our natural strive to match the future will make us find a way.

Does this stem from foolish ignorance or blind optimism?

[earsofdoom]

Both of Bush's Environment advisors have backrounds in the Oil, mining, and chemical industries and since being elected he has cancelled the majority of environmental programs (like the kyoto agreement) ever since then Co2 levels have skyrocketed. what we need is someone in the white house who isn't the industries ***** and screwing us all over. sadly nothing will be done until something big happens (like a glaciar melts and water levels rise) which will kill his "denial machine" (google it if you don't know what it is) but thats what it takes to make peaple actually do something about it.

[Len]

Does this stem from foolish ignorance or blind optimism?

It stems from the sarcastic unreliability of humanity.

[Hopelesromantic]

You guys are all still quite funny.

Ok there isn't thing one humanity can do to stop a volcano erupting. Doing absolutely nothing to be ready for when it does though, is idiotic.

Apply that to any problem. Doing nothing means you are not going to deal with it.

Now on to Al Gore. If I had to pick him or Bush's dumb ideas, I'll choose Al's dumb ideas. As for it being a political agenda, and like you are saying you never had an agenda in your own life? Of course he has an agenda. When I wake in the morning I too have agendas. We all do. So why does his having an agenda defacto make him wrong?

Every time I hear "Gore is just serving his own agendas" I hear the sound of a person unable to tell how dumb they themselves sound.

How would I defend against Yellowstone blowing up? Not live within 200 miles of the place. Not live anywhere downwind of the place. There see how I solved that worry?

How would I deal with the Canary Islands blowing? Not live within 200 miles of the Atlantic Coast.

I also don't advise living within 100 miles of the Gulf Coast.
Nor anywhere in Tornado Alley.
Nor Anywhere on the Californian coast. Or the Western coast for that matter.
You might have noticed a trend. Magical as the Americans like to claim the US is, it's largely a geographical death trap.

I'm fond of Northern Ontario. Not perfect, but it has no recent history of vulcanism (actually the shield is about as old as rock gets). No hurricanes or tornados worth mention. No earthquakes or floods in a big way.
There ARE forest fires, but there's so many trees up there seems like there's always more. Not to mention bugs.

Now the Magnetic shield is something no one can "hide" from. With that, you're just going to be given a random chance like the rest.

Snow used to be a point of laughter, the Great White North and all that, but this year I was beginning to wonder till just last week where the snow actually went. Cold here now, but it sure was late. Picture doing lawnwork in the middle of a Canadian winter.

Freshwater depletion is 100% human stupidity. Nice article on this in National Geographic. It's a global problem every last one of us is guilty, not a single nation we can gang up on here. And we are doing it for entirely frivolous reasons too. The piper will be calling soon.

The movie The Day After Tomorrow was a typical Hollywood mangling of a decent book sadly. Read the Coming Global Superstorm, then laugh it off. The movie was based on real science, then Hollywood as usual pooched the original story as always.

Right now, my main concern for "polution" is how it affects are cities. How many are familiar with smog alerts? Been in a large city on a very hot day? I have.
And we have not seen a truely good example in North America yet, but Europe has. Smog can and HAS killed THOUSANDS in recent heat waves.
It isn't going to get much better, because too many support the quaint delusion they have a right to a personal auto and too bad if their independence is lethal in enough numbers on a hot day.
Your commute to work might actually contribute to killing someone. Think about that.

[Len]

Thank you for defining global warming and the counter measures, as well as sploofing horrible Hollywood movies and plugging Al Gore like many other have.

You know, for someone who calls Al Gore's ideas foolish, you seem to be adamant that we follow them.

[Joeshie]

You know, for someone who calls Al Gore's ideas foolish, you seem to be adamant that we follow them.

The lesser of two evils.

There is no such thing as global warming. It´s just some hippies complaining because they can´t comprehend unpredictable weather.

Yeah, who cares what science says? Science is just a left-wing political ideology created to spread lies and deceit.

[Len]

ExxonSecrets (Http://www.exxonsecrets.com)

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...ooh. cat fights are better than dog fights, i always say...

[Len]

Not being a feminist or anything; but when it comes to Global Warming, men are doing all the wrong things. xD Many dog fights.

[earsofdoom]

The lesser of two evils.


That sounds about right.... with Gore being president we would still have problems but at least they would be human problems. with Bush we are faceing Worldly problems that affect all life.

[Len]

Bush = Generation of War
Gore = Earth wont explo'dd.

Take your pick.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...and why are we even talking about it anyway? its not like our "smart" ***** are gonna do anything about it anyway. we are all still going to live our lives the same way we do everyday. ignorance is bliss

plus, we all gotta die of something anyway. i always wanted world destruction, or the great flood to be the cause of my demise.

[Hopelesromantic]

Thank you for defining global warming and the counter measures, as well as sploofing horrible Hollywood movies and plugging Al Gore like many other have.

You know, for someone who calls Al Gore's ideas foolish, you seem to be adamant that we follow them.

I'm asumming sarcasm is not something you are good with :)

I can call his ideas great, atypical, bad, and likely several other means of description. In the end, I have found most people will either watch his video or they won't.
I have found a lot of people outside of the US are more receptive to listen to him though.

I don't think his ideas are 100%, but I don't think many of our great thinkers are usually able to get past 90%, so Al's just going to have to live with being less than perfect hehe.

In his film, it wasn't what he said that shocked me, it was what he showed me that bothered me. The video has some very convincing footage.

Plenty of people attack the man for being less than educated in their view.
Actually, I think his biggest problem is he's known to be "the other side" politically speaking, and likely would have less trouble if he had never been in politics.

But he's got some voices in his film supporting him that I have no trouble respecting. So, one needs to stop and remember, An Inconvenient Truth is not just an Al Gore rant.

But like I said earlier, I think the US would be a lot happier, a lot better off today, and not where it is geopolitically, if you had had HIM as president for the last several years.

[{NG}Fidel]

Not being a feminist or anything; but when it comes to Global Warming, men are doing all the wrong things. xD Many dog fights.
Yeah I forgot it was all our fault.
Thanks for reminding me. / end sarcasim.

[Len]

How can you deny that it is? I mean the equivocation. You don't see females working against Global Warming.. its all men. I'm not trying to be feminist Im just point out a fact.

[Old Ape Face]

How can you deny that it is? I mean the equivocation. You don't see females working against Global Warming.. its all men. I'm not trying to be feminist Im just point out a fact.

hahah Men + everything = Global Warming?

that's sort of Stereotypical and biased if you ask me, Well i don't think about global warming.

[Len]

Calling a cat a cat is stereotypical. You can't avoid stereotypes.

[{NG}Fidel]

How can you deny that it is? I mean the equivocation. You don't see females working against Global Warming.. its all men. I'm not trying to be feminist Im just point out a fact.

Its not a fact thats your problem.

Calling a cat a cat is stereotypical. You can't avoid stereotypes.
That sort of defense is something the KKK would use on blacks.

[Spadesy]

It's never too late to halt the destruction of the planet, but you have to accept that it will one day happen.

Call it a Daoist or defeatist philosophy, but sometimes you can't stop the inevitable no matter what the vehicle or the cause.

That's really all I have to say on it.

[Len]

Its not a fact thats your problem.


That sort of defense is something the KKK would use on blacks.

It is a fact. Give me name of woman who are opposed to Global Warming's science that have made articles.

[Warabit]

If the oil industry stopped seeing only dollar signs and worked on different ways to power cars, it would be better. I dont think car exhaust causes global warming. But it deffinatly wouldnt hurt to be rid of it. Our cars should be running on water right now. Greed gets in the way though.

[Evil_Koala]

I don't know if you were serious when you made this statement, but did you know methane—one of the greenhouse gases—is made in the stomach of cows?

Yeah, The Day After Tomorrow was a movie with superb special effects, but it wasn't an accurate or factual depiction of Global Warming. On the other hand, An Inconvenient Truth was a "documentary" film which was propagandized to disseminate Al Gore's political dogma.

Yeah, I was actually rly being super serial when I typed that...Cept the part about Manbearpig...

[{NG}Fidel]

It is a fact. Give me name of woman who are opposed to Global Warming's science that have made articles.
Let me ask you if you have checked that out.
Or are you just saying this because you yourself have not heard anything from the more prominent women. I know women that disagree with Global warming in school and in life and men who agree with it. This isnt a gender split issue trust me. It sickens me that your trying to make it that too.

[Len]

Im not, I was just making a joke originally. Look for my first post.

Moving on, I mean influential females.

[master terrence]

Bush = Generation of War
Gore = Earth wont explo'dd.

Take your pick.



poop. Let me here it for Ralph Nader :D

The green party has their **** down.

[RamenBoy]

Global warming is definitly true, and it is surely a issue that needs to be fix for the sake of the next gen. I heard once on the radio, as my mom was driving me to school that if we dont change our lifestyles and keep on wasting water, energy, not recycling etc.. then we would need 4 earths to satisfy our needs. As technology and years progress, us humans have become too spoiled and I think its mainly OUR fault if the world does come to a end.

Now to my theory on global warming, I think if we keep on releasing CO2 gases into the atmosphere, then sooner or later, due to the greenhouse effect, the iceburgs up in the north will melt. This is cause a dramatic change in ocean currents and weather; tsunamis, hurricanes, storms etc. But this is not the main problem, the main factor here is the heat. Without the iceburgs reflecting the sun's heat back into space, we could be in real danger. No, there will not be another ice age, more like a the earth will turn into a gigantic fireball as years progress.

Of course, I trust in human science, and I do trust in the brain powers of humans. Hopefully someone will think of something that could help us in this situation in the future and save our ***** or atleast give us sometime for us all to change and think about how we can REALLY save the earth.

.. or maybe we should just live in mars...

[Len]

Global warming is definitly true, and it is surely a issue that needs to be fix for the sake of the next gen. I heard once on the radio, as my mom was driving me to school that if we dont change our lifestyles and keep on wasting water, energy, not recycling etc.. then we would need 4 earths to satisfy our needs. As technology and years progress, us humans have become too spoiled and I think its mainly OUR fault if the world does come to a end.

Yep. Life sucks. Thing is; ours may be shorter than usual if China doesn't put cap filters on their ****ing smoke stacks.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

...i still say come what may. heck, im ready for anything.

in truth, man is a nut.
when it's hot, he wants it cool.
when it's cool, he wants it hot.
always wanting what is not.

[Len]

(continuation)
a swinging tree cott. o-o

[Evil_Koala]

^ Tru

We could use corn juice for oil...Ethenol or somethin. MMM MMMM *****! We got corn comin out of our ears anyway.

Nebilim, you're always startin sexist ****...XD Are you a feminazi? :(

[Rain]

Okay, can we all get back on track now?

What do the Ku Klux Klan or feminist organizations have anything to do with Global Warming?

I'm disappointed because most of you don't seem to be able to hold your own in a supposed-to-be-intelligent discussion.

... And some of you wonder why the forum moderators repeatedly warn us against starting threads involving politics, etc. Oh, give me a break.

I guess I expected too much. ;)

[Len]

^ Tru

We could use corn juice for oil...Ethenol or somethin. MMM MMMM *****! We got corn comin out of our ears anyway.

Nebilim, you're always startin sexist ****...XD Are you a feminazi? :(

Feminazi <3 No Im not, I just like to play... *pouts*

[Evil_Koala]

Mel, the KKK burn crosses. Do you know how many greenhouse gases that exposes our environment to? Feminist Organizations use tons of greenhouse gases and gas with their lesbian rights and female supremacy floats in those parades in San Francisco. These are dangers to the environment. SHUT THEM DOWN NOW!

Nebilim, I am unconvinced.

[Len]

Nebilim, I am unconvinced.

I wasn't born to convince you, Koa. : )

[Evil_Koala]

I wasn't born to convince you, Koa. : )

O RLY? Chacha begs to differ...

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2006/arroweddm3.jpg

Can you say ARROWED?

[Len]

Didn't hear it from me. xD

[Evil_Koala]

Didn't hear it from me. xD

PattiP is a reliable source. She was on Doug...You don't know what you were born to do...>_>

Anyway, Global Warming...Yup...So...Not doin so well in society, eh?

[HSaabedra]

Can we stop crapping on this thread please? This crap has gone on long enough. I expected thought out opinions and debate. Not craptacular dogma and nonsense. Now my stance on the issue is this: After having studied weather patterns and changes in the enviroment, I believe we are accelerating a naturally occurring heating cycle. The reason I say this is because the median temperature of the planet has been steadily rising every year since the 1970's. Now, pollution and ozone emission increases during those years has sped up the heating process to the point that the planet is reacting by altering weather patterns in strange ways (Hurricane force winds in Europe, Deep frezzes in California, warmer temperatures in normally cold climates (Canada, Northeast US), and more violent storms. I believe global warming is being accelerated by our actions, and so we must take steps to slow it down to a more manageable level. This is a legitimate concern of mine and I will not tolerate blind ignorance,

[Len]

Yes. The temperature recommended to continue the cycle is about 5 times its prediction. We should have hit a downgrading point in the temperature but we havn't. Think of is this way though; if we didnt do anything artificially, do you think it would be too cold? We're technically making all ways of creating an ice-age obselete. Not that its a good thing, the earth needs to be refreshed once every 10,000 years. xD

[Joeshie]

As technology and years progress, us humans have become too spoiled and I think its mainly OUR fault if the world does come to a end.

I think an important view to consider is that when most people say "end of the world", it usually means the "end of humanity". I have no doubt that when humanity is destroyed, life will continue on (assuming that the world is not physically destroyed).

It is a fact. Give me name of woman who are opposed to Global Warming's science that have made articles.

Sallie Baliunas at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

Although, I do agree that, generally, women are more likely to protect the environment.

[Len]

Thank you for that, Joe. ^_^

[{NG}Fidel]

This is a legitimate concern of mine and I will not tolerate blind ignorance.

I agree steps must be taken regardless, but when did this fourm become yours to dictate what side people should or should not take?

[Len]

Regardless of whose it is, he's right.

[Rain]

I agree steps must be taken regardless, but when did this fourm become yours to dictate what side people should or should not take?

Blind ignorance from both sides, is what I think he meant.

I think an important view to consider is that when most people say "end of the world", it usually means the "end of humanity". I have no doubt that when humanity is destroyed, life will continue on (assuming that the world is not physically destroyed).

I agree.

[Len]

Its hard to not be ignorant towards the sittuation. It's a life-altering matter. We need to take this more seriously instead of trying to out-whit the other side.

[{NG}Fidel]

Blind ignorance from both sides, is what I think he meant.
If so then I agree.

[TougeSil80]

Global warming is way exagerated. I'm not really worried at all. When all the ice melts we would've probably found some way to build some dams around cities and stuff. That's hundreds of years into the future anyways. So yeah, I would continue to drive the cars I want and not worry about it.

[Len]

Ever think of ROASTING TO DEATH?

Edit: Its not 100s of years in the future, its in the next 40 years we will notice the difference drastically.

[Joeshie]

Global warming is way exagerated. I'm not really worried at all. When all the ice melts we would've probably found some way to build some dams around cities and stuff. That's hundreds of years into the future anyways. So yeah, I would continue to drive the cars I want and not worry about it.

Hundreds of years? Try as soon as one hundred years.

Personally, I think it's rather silly to hope that we will have some miracle technology in the future to prevent the sea level from completely flooding major cities around the world. Any such technology would only be available to >1% of the threatened areas and would probably cost billions to install and maintain, assuming that we even find any such ability to do so.

[Len]

It costs the state enough to install a ****ing fence to keep the mexicans out, imagine what a huge wall able to stop rushing water (which can break solid concrete) around an entire continent would cost. I dont think America has the ability to build ANYTHING around any continent. They also dont have the will power.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Hundreds of years? Try as soon as one hundred years.

The little ice age and started glaciers swallowing up villages in as little as 60 years. In the US it had the opposite effect both the Mississippian culture and Toltec cultures went into sharp decline and extinction due to drought. In China both ricords and dendrological and examinations of plant cellulouse show the same thing. It is not something new, it is not something you can stop despite all the alarmist crap the media puts forth.



Personally, I think it's rather silly to hope that we will have some miracle technology in the future to prevent the sea level from completely flooding major cities around the world. Any such technology would only be available to >1% of the threatened areas and would probably cost billions to install and maintain, assuming that we even find any such ability to do so.


There is one we can easily use to circumvent the largest percentage of CO2 and sulfides in the air, nuclear power. No one wants to use that though.

[Joeshie]

The little ice age and started glaciers swallowing up villages in as little as 60 years. In the US it had the opposite effect both the Mississippian culture and Toltec cultures went into sharp decline and extinction due to drought. In China both ricords and dendrological and examinations of plant cellulouse show the same thing.

I'm not too sure what you are attempting to show here. I assume it has to do with some sort of past geological and climate trends, but I can't make out what your point is.

It is not something new, it is not something you can stop despite all the alarmist crap the media puts forth.

Assuming you are talking about natural changes in the Earth's temperature, then I agree with you, there isn't anything we can do about it.

However, we can curb the CO2 emissions. That's not to say that it won't prevent global warming, but it will soften the blow.

[Hopelesromantic]

Global warming is way exagerated. I'm not really worried at all. When all the ice melts we would've probably found some way to build some dams around cities and stuff. That's hundreds of years into the future anyways. So yeah, I would continue to drive the cars I want and not worry about it.

Too much thread wandering, and alas comments like the above only worry me. Well actually, only reaffirm not enough money is going into education.

But at the end of the day, I wouldn't have to genuinely care if not for the fact that my son WILL be around to deal with my dad's generation's errors in judgement.

In 40 years I will be gone (I assume anything after 85 is just great luck). So if nothing dreadful happens in 45 years I'm ok.
what about you guys, most of you won't be exiting for an extra 30 years after me. Are you looking forward to this century?

[Len]

I dont see how people can't worry about the age ahead of us. Its sick to think that people actually push this asside with ignorance. The facts are there, and the truths are there. We all posted various things about Global Warming that are shocking. Do I need to explain the adverse effects, other than flooding? Drought, Disease, Famine, Extinction, Dehydration, are subeffects of Global Warming. Floods are the least of your worries really. If you live above water all your life, the water will heat and boil you eventually. If you life away from water, the heat will be too intense to live a normal life. We're not talking about tiny tiny changes in temperature, we're talking about huge jumps in normalities which are causing almost 4-5 times as hot regularities then normal. Sooner or later the earth will all share in the Equator's misfortune.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I'm not too sure what you are attempting to show here. I assume it has to do with some sort of past geological and climate trends, but I can't make out what your point is.

Yes, your starting to get it look at the big picture. Warming and cooling happens all the time in the geological record. The chicken little people are focusing on something that is not the issue either, they are focused on petrochemicals for political reasons,

Assuming you are talking about natural changes in the Earth's temperature, then I agree with you, there isn't anything we can do about it.

It is natural if we are helping it along has nothing to do with what we burn but something else we have been doing for 10,000 years.

However, we can curb the CO2 emissions. That's not to say that it won't prevent global warming, but it will soften the blow.

CO2 is not the real issues are in methane and nitrous oxide which are much more critical in retaining heat. these are caused by agriculture and animal husbandry. In fact 65% of all N2O comes from agriculture and it is 250 times more potent than CO2 at retaining heat. Why do you think you never hear about this?

[sailornyanko]

There is one we can easily use to circumvent the largest percentage of CO2 and sulfides in the air, nuclear power. No one wants to use that though.

I don't blame them. We have enough problems with garbage that isn't being recycled. What to do with nuclear waste? Put it in barrels and hide them inside of trees to make monster trees?

A lot of countries use much better sources of elecricity. Paraguay uses hydroelectric power. Dams can be damaging to the ecosystem since they cause draught downstream, but if they can be planned well, they are a far better sollution. Eolic power is highly ignored as well.

---

Global warming is way exagerated. I'm not really worried at all. When all the ice melts we would've probably found some way to build some dams around cities and stuff. That's hundreds of years into the future anyways. So yeah, I would continue to drive the cars I want and not worry about it.

Dude, the US doesn't have the money to decently repair the levees in New Orleans. They don't even spend much money in exploring new oil fields in the US. With things now, they won't do anything. Plus, what happened in new orleans shows us that poorly planned quick fixes don't work.

As an american, I'd be worried with your last statement. Gasoline is cheap now because Bush is forced to use their reserves and create a false idea that oil is a plenty in the US. The oil is running out. The US has only the 3% of all oil sources in the world and they are pumping out 8% of it a year making it the thrid biggest oil driller in the world. A large heap of the oil reserves are coming from Mexico because this country currently doesn't have it's own refinery so we import the crude. That's why oil is a bit expensive here (though the prices are getting cheaper than in the US as of late).

The new president has already started building a new refinery in Veracruz and it's planned to be almost finished around 2009. Once oil independance is made from the US, Mexico can sell gasoline to whatever price they feel like. Right now PEMEX has announced that they are selling less oil to the US in an act to try (though it will fail) to lower the price of corn which has been affected the country these past few weeks.

If the US runs out of it's own oil (which will happen in 10-20 years if they keep on pumping it at this rate without finding new sources), the country will fall into a recession which is bad for everyone.

Frankly I wouldn't buy a gas guzzler. Heck, in my city those cars are too inefficient to buy anyways they contaminate too much thus making them a problem for the owner because by law in this city you can't drive the car specific days of the week if it doesn't pass an air contamination test.

The US has to start changing to alternate sources of travel now while they still have the money to do so. It's not just global warming, it's the US economy that's at stake.

[Nano]

urgh, you're all debating weither it's a problem or not.
It's always on the news in England, there have been countless documentaries about this, and in one of them Steven Hawkings said that the threat of global warming is greater than that of a nuclear war. We're building nuclear power plants because they're less harmful and cause less green house gases. Our nuclear plants around the coasts are going to be endangered with the threat of rising tides. And without decent sea defences massive parts of England will be lost to the sea. Maybe we're more worried about it because we're more at risk being a island. But I think it's plan ignorence to dissmiss it, to say it isn't happening. Because it is happening.

[max payne]

Meh, we're pretty much screwed. It's too late unless everyone in the world does something very soon. Which isn't likely. The human race has made it's own bed, now it needs to sleep in it.

[Len]

Thats not very meaningful to say. I consider what you said spam. Your harshness will just scare people into submission.

[max payne]

You wound me. It's just an opinion, it's not supposed to meaningful. Sorry if all my posts aren't philisophical gold.
Besides, what can we do? governments and corporations won't do anything till its too late.

[Len]

You dont know how much influence death has on people.

[HSaabedra]

You dont know how much influence death has on people.

People are inherently selfish and don't want to die. So why the ambivalence towards this?

[Len]

Elaborate? I simply mean that when faced with death Humanbeings have a tendency to do anything to avoid it, even if its subconcious.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Elaborate? I simply mean that when faced with death Humanbeings have a tendency to do anything to avoid it, even if its subconcious.


Every living thing has a tendency to avoid death and harm. It is why they are still around as a species.

[Len]

That is irrelevent. Animals I doubt have the ability to do anything against flooding of the earth. It does shine light onto my point though; we find a way.

[max payne]

I understand perfectly the infulence.
I didn't say we were gonna die. Humans survived an ice age (I think, we don't learn that in history.), we're pretty adaptable. And we learn from our mistakes, I'm pretty sure after a few floods people will be "Oh, **** we better stop this from happening."

[Len]

A few floods? Try continents. We're not talking about A FEW FLOODS. This is a large scale. Entire cities under-water in months. More blind ignorance; no plan B? Why is there never a Plan B when it comes to the environment?

[max payne]

The world isn't suddenly going to go under water, it'll be gradual, not walking down the street then suddenly BAM! hit by a wave.

[Len]

Not my point. Its not going to be in 10 year jumps. Doing something could take 10-20 years, probably more. We're just wasting time arguing over the incomplete facts. What goes wrong if we do something? You equivocate and equivocate and refuse to answer anything but responses to your own questions.

We will DIE in less than 100 years if the climb is steady. I dont see why more people take this seriously.

[Bernard_Monsha]

A few floods? Try continents. We're not talking about A FEW FLOODS. This is a large scale. Entire cities under-water in months. More blind ignorance; no plan B? Why is there never a Plan B when it comes to the environment?


Not like it hasn't happened before. There is what remains of a thriving neolithic era civilization under the Black Sea. The world is not stagnant and things are always changing. 10,000 years ago what is beach front in Texas would be miles inland. Further back the entire center of America was covered by the Niobara sea one again it receded. It is both ignorant and arrogant to presume that the natural order will be overturned by the earth changing it's face.

[max payne]

This is a forum. The whole point is to talk, if you want action, you'll have to come off the internet. People will probbably do something as soon as something drastic happens, maybe it'll be too late, maybe it won't. But I'll shut up now, because I can see this thread being closed.

[Len]

I didnt ask for you to do anything, Max. All I said was people don't take it seriously. It's all laid out for you, even for those who are extrmeely lazy. The science is there, the facts are there and you can NOTICE the mosquitoes becoming more frequent and the birds stopping southward migration. The cold is disappearing. Sure this is a "forum" but there is no reason for me to stop trying to convince someone that this is something we have to focus our energies on.

[Old Ape Face]

well i've read a lot about history and, stuff, and apparently, we're coming out of an ice age, in my opinion this has nothing to do with human laziness, or people driving too much, or anything the human race has conjured throughout the world, just this year alone, we've seen snow in Austin Texas, rain fall in Connecticut and snow in California. I predict to see a drought in the summer in new england, and a flood somewhere in the center of the country. due to El Ninio. not global warming.

In other words there is nothing the human race can do to stop this sudden temperature change in the most opposite regions, I believe the best thing to do is wait.

[{NG}Fidel]

The problem with this subject is that people want to look at either side of the story and claim that their belief is the one truth. Fact is neither side has an edge over another and we dont have a definitive idea on whats going on. Their is ice melting but in other parts of the world the sheets of ice have been growing. A comprehensive study has to be done and not by politicians (yes Gore is one).

[Len]

In other words there is nothing the human race can do to stop this sudden temperature change in the most opposite regions, I believe the best thing to do is wait.

You dont stop it, you stop HELPING it.

[Old Ape Face]

It doesn't need help, it needs time.

[Len]

.... DID YOU READ MY POST X_X
Of course it doesnt need help, I said that. ._. It needs to be left alone, and we need to moderate how much we're contributing to it. They did not have revolutionary technology back in the last ice ages and the last heating and cooling cycle. WE DO which are creating problems.

We make Dioxins and Furans, We make Chlorofluorocarbons and Poly Aeromatic Hydrocarbons. WE MAKE THESE THINGS EVERY DAY which kill us and the atmosphere. How can you say with confidence that we're doing nothing and or cant stop it?

[HSaabedra]

.... DID YOU READ MY POST X_X
Of course it doesnt need help, I said that. ._. It needs to be left alone, and we need to moderate how much we're contributing to it. They did not have revolutionary technology back in the last ice ages and the last heating and cooling cycle. WE DO which are creating problems.

We make Dioxins and Furans, We make Chlorofluorocarbons and Poly Aeromatic Hydrocarbons. WE MAKE THESE THINGS EVERY DAY which kill us and the atmosphere. How can you say with confidence that we're doing nothing and or cant stop it?

We can stop it, the irony being the tech being developed to slow down the effects is more expensive than people are willing to spend.

[Len]

This is what I'm asking. Are these are alterior reasons why you think they would shove off something as dangerous as this?

[HSaabedra]

This is what I'm asking. Are these are alterior reasons why you think they would shove off something as dangerous as this?

Well, yes. Fossil fuels keep companies like Royal Dutch Shell and ExxonMobil in business. If someone developed a technology to disrupt their revenue stream, they would lobby for its diminished influence through falsified reports and studies.

[Len]

Arn't we looking at Hydrogen Power anyway? All that it would produce would be water and o2. Water is a green-house gas but its not as bad as Carbon Dioxide.

[HSaabedra]

Arn't we looking at Hydrogen Power anyway? All that it would produce would be water and o2. Water is a green-house gas but its not as bad as Carbon Dioxide.

Until the production of hydrogen can be managed to the point where it's cheaper to produce than crude and systems are developed that can maintain a high ratio of efficiency to consumption, it is still not a viable alternative.

[Len]

I'm sick of everything having value, doesn't anyone put value on the planet? Isnt there a handicap that has to be put in to attone for the cost of beathable air and liveable temperatures? I dont understand any of this at all. Perhaps its because I live where nobody has a say.

[HSaabedra]

I'm sick of everything having value, doesn't anyone put value on the planet? Isnt there a handicap that has to be put in to attone for the cost of beathable air and liveable temperatures? I dont understand any of this at all. Perhaps its because I live where nobody has a say.

I agree with you Len, to a point. I believe that manufacturers must pay their dividends to help repair what they destroy in order to create infrastructure. I believe that people need to be better educated about nuclear energy. The thing is though, you're going up against thousands and thousands of years of commerce dictating value. Human nature assigns a value to that which it considers valuable. Now was crude oil valuable before the onset of the Industrial Revolution, yes but it was not considered absolutely necessary. Now you can't turn around without looking at the things that oil provides you.

[Len]

What about perpetual energy? Magnetic fans? Has anyone researched this?

[HSaabedra]

What about perpetual energy? Magnetic fans? Has anyone researched this?

:ph34r: Quiet woman!! We do not speak of Perpetual Motion here!!:ph34r:

[Old Ape Face]

there is no such thing as infinite resources, value depends on the ability to acquire a product, the faster and more reliable the product the lower the value. because carbon fuel is the most reliable as of right now, all others are Obsolete. water might be the most valuable resource but it has not come to a reliable propulsion substitute for carbon fuel. if we made a sudden switch and stopped the production of carbon fuels, it would take a longer time to produce the water substitute. and there for business would fail due to lack of a power source, until the new one is available.

[Len]

:ph34r: Quiet woman!! We do not speak of Perpetual Motion here!!:ph34r:

....why not? *feels sorta offended..*

[Old Ape Face]

Perpetual motion can only be achieved in a vacuum in which all air resistance is removed, and even then the math involved is too complicated.

[Len]

No, its not technically Perpetual what I'm thinking of, its just long lasting. Magnetic poles pushing and pulling on tops and bottoms of propellers to make them spin at a constant. I'm sure the magnets would have to recharge but we could do that easilly, right? I have to study more on the subject.

[HSaabedra]

No, its not technically Perpetual what I'm thinking of, its just long lasting. Magnetic poles pushing and pulling on tops and bottoms of propellers to make them spin at a constant. I'm sure the magnets would have to recharge but we could do that easilly, right? I have to study more on the subject.

Your idea seems to rely on a massive neodymium centrifuge, which in theory is dangerous

(I knew there was a reason I added you to my buddy list.) :)

[Len]

Weigh the consequences. I told you, I'm still doing research..

Plus I never said we needed the strongest magnet.
Neodymium is used in fertilizer I dont see why we could use it as a magnet anyway. Would it pull the particles inward?

@Buddy List: Flattery? :P

[master terrence]

theres no such thing as global warming... that's just how hot I am. ;)

[HSaabedra]

Weigh the consequences. I told you, I'm still doing research..

Plus I never said we needed the strongest magnet.
Neodymium is used in fertilizer I dont see why we could use it as a magnet anyway. Would it pull the particles inward?

@Buddy List: Flattery? :P

Neodymium is an exceptionally powerful magnet that is used as a sonic driver in audio equipment. It can also destroy cellphones. The size of the magnets I'm suggesting is closer to that of a small car and if the energy generated is not contained correctly, it is possible that it could destroy a small island. In regards to the Buddy List, yes it is flattery, but I am the AN Casanova after all, :P :naughty:

[Len]

Then lets think of a less potent magnet which is stable and doesnt mind interacting with an opposite pole? xD

[Old Ape Face]

Magnets are Magnets you can't change the physical properties of a magnet, it's a scientific law. it's Concrete.

[Neo0tak0n]

Not like it hasn't happened before. There is what remains of a thriving neolithic era civilization under the Black Sea. The world is not stagnant and things are always changing. 10,000 years ago what is beach front in Texas would be miles inland. Further back the entire center of America was covered by the Niobara sea one again it receded. It is both ignorant and arrogant to presume that the natural order will be overturned by the earth changing it's face.

That natural order has been overturned before. There aren't any more dinosaurs walking around. And it sure doesn't help our situation when we add in de-forestation, air and water pollution, plankton die-off, pesticide contamination, nitrogenation of the soil, salination of the soil, species extinction, and the burning of fossil fuels. Nature doesn't usually throw all those things in a blender at once, but humans do and at high frequency.

Agriculture destroyed sustainability. Civilization had a good 10 thousand year run, but it wont go on forever. We got two options: 1. Return to pleistocene living or 2. Get to outter space, quick. That way we can be planet-draining alien invaders.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Agriculture destroyed sustainability. Civilization had a good 10 thousand year run, but it wont go on forever. We got two options: 1. Return to pleistocene living or 2. Get to outter space, quick. That way we can be planet-draining alien invaders.

I agree with you on Agriculture cattle farts and poo on the industrial scale we have are having more of an effect than fossil fuels do. Namely because they produce gasses that are far worse than the CO2 released by fossil fuel burning. I think option 2 sounds much better.

[Old Ape Face]

Next stop Planet mars.

[Rain]

CO2 is not the real issues are in methane and nitrous oxide which are much more critical in retaining heat. these are caused by agriculture and animal husbandry. In fact 65% of all N2O comes from agriculture and it is 250 times more potent than CO2 at retaining heat. Why do you think you never hear about this?

I agree, but the reduction of nitrous oxide emissions in the atmosphere is also a part of the efforts by the Kyoto Protocol (at least it is recognized). It isn't as publicized, of course, but it is the third most "prominent" gas that contributes to global warming, and it also destroys the ozone in the stratosphere.

Disclaimer: Yeah, the Kyoto Protocol is a futile and fruitless international treaty.

Water is a green-house gas but its not as bad as Carbon Dioxide.

If you mean water vapor, then yes; however, water in a liquid state is not a gas, thus it can't be a greenhouse gas.

[HSaabedra]

Why was the Kyoto Protocol drafted if it didn;t take into account NO2 emissions?

[Old Ape Face]

If the next best solution is to go into outer space then the world itself is virtually the next Venus. i doubt humans are capable if doing that much damage to earth, artificially yes humans are adding chemicals the air that are harmful, but humans are not the only thing polluting the air, volcanoes produce more toxic gas then 100 car lots. Whether we stop burning fossil fuels or not there will still be a more constant production of these toxic chemicals produced by the earth itself.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Why was the Kyoto Protocol drafted if it didn;t take into account NO2 emissions?

because the people who drafted it were all Socialist and Communist who wanted to stick it to the disciples of Adam Smith who proved them wrong. Axl you should really be more scepticle and jaded than you are.

Ironically enough does anyone remember the old Merry Melodies cartoons were the last war on earth that led to the extinction of men was between the Meat Eaters and Vegetarians? I can see that comeing true, the meat eaters will be blamed for the N20 from cows while the uptick in CO2 can be blamed on clear cutting land so the vegetarians can make enough tofurkey.

[Hopelesromantic]

"because the people who drafted it were all Socialist and Communist who wanted to stick it to the disciples of Adam Smith who proved them wrong. Axl you should really be more scepticle and jaded than you are."

Drat, and after the history thread you sounded so educated Bernard.

I will just cross my fingers and label it sarcasm and hope you were kidding.

[HSaabedra]

because the people who drafted it were all Socialist and Communist who wanted to stick it to the disciples of Adam Smith who proved them wrong. Axl you should really be more scepticle and jaded than you are.

If I were to become more cynical and jaded, I would turn into a drone. How does my asking a legitimate question bring up my ability to judge the actions of men?

[Hopelesromantic]

Hmm pages 9 and 10 have a lot of posts with some very techy sounding talk in it, but really, you techy sounding posters don't appear to really see where our problem really lies.

It's simple, no one will ever accept it, not possible really, to accept it that is.

It's humanity, and humanity's numbers.

The planet was just fine having us around until recently. Now all of our "problems" are a problem to "us" mostly as a result of our considerably rapidly increasingly harder and harder to support numbers.

Yes, now you can see why I said no solution forthcoming. How do you just tell everyone on this planet to stop reproducing eh. Not going to happen.

When it was hundreds of millions of us, it was not so bad, not even a possible to be a problem. But billions? that's getting to be a worry.

Our species has "needs" and we refuse to stop "needing" them.

We'll never have "enough" food. There will never be "enough" resources. We will always eventually end up butting heads over something the other guy has that we say we require to survive.

Some days I wish it would just happen, one of the biggie box office disasters, so that we could have half or more of our species get eliminated. And we could find out who was going and who was staying.
Our oh so comfortable hi tech wasteful civilization needs a good kick in the balls maybe.
I often wonder, would it really be the end of the world?
I just keep remembering, we are part of nature, and nature must first burn a forest down before it can renew it.
Canada was a clean slate after the last ice age eh. Everything that was here before was covered with miles deep ice and scraped clean away. And yet it all got covered with green all over again all the same eh.

[Old Ape Face]

^you make a good point, and i've been following up on that point too. yeah I can see the human race causing ourselves to become extinct. i would have guessed it was from war, or some human activity that was planned, but over population can cause be to starve to death. In china they're supposed to only have one child, and if it's a girl they kill her, simply to prevent overpopulation. This is a simple fix, but it'll mean expenses in the long run.

[Bernard_Monsha]

If I were to become more cynical and jaded, I would turn into a drone. How does my asking a legitimate question bring up my ability to judge the actions of men?

Because nothing in this world is done without an alterior motive particurally in the arena of politicts. Kyoto was a ruse, done to impress the masses as a political baby kissing oppourtunity. Bush got to use it the same why by declining it, for far more obvious reasons. Being incredulous does not make you a drone, believing anything and everything you see in the media or government does.

[HSaabedra]

Because nothing in this world is done without an alterior motive particurally in the arena of politicts. Kyoto was a ruse, done to impress the masses as a political baby kissing oppourtunity. Bush got to use it the same why by declining it, for far more obvious reasons. Being incredulous does not make you a drone, believing anything and everything you see in the media or government does.

I'm always incredulous. The problem arises when people misuse the term cynic. Cynicism is a detachment of self from ignorance while caring about the world. The word you were looking for to describe people who refuse to believe everything is skeptic.

[CrossboneGundam]

Because nothing in this world is done without an alterior motive particurally in the arena of politicts. Kyoto was a ruse, done to impress the masses as a political baby kissing oppourtunity. Bush got to use it the same why by declining it, for far more obvious reasons. Being incredulous does not make you a drone, believing anything and everything you see in the media or government does.

So, just out of curiosity, when are you going to come up with verifiable evidence to support your position? As opposed to abstractions about the nature of politics and claims that the majority of scientists are conspiring to somehow make money by coming up with a lie about global warming.

[Joeshie]

Being incredulous does not make you a drone, believing anything and everything you see in the media or government does.

Which is just as bad as denying everything the media or government says/writing everything off as a conspiracy.

[Rain]

Hmm pages 9 and 10 have a lot of posts with some very techy sounding talk in it, but really, you techy sounding posters don't appear to really see where our problem really lies.

... And you think you have a better grasp on the gravity (reality) of the current predicament that we have knowingly landed ourselves in?

It's simple, no one will ever accept it, not possible really, to accept it that is.

Accept what? Accept that Global Warming is not actually a farce that the "corrupt" politicians and scientists came up with purely for political reasons?

The planet was just fine having us around until recently. Now all of our "problems" are a problem to "us" mostly as a result of our considerably rapidly increasingly harder and harder to support numbers.

Why the apostrophes on the word problems? Are you now asserting that Global Warming is not an inherent threat to the extinction of our species?

Our species has "needs" and we refuse to stop "needing" them.

From a fatalistic point of view, humans refuse to stop needing non-renewable resources (fossil fuels) because we know that death is inevitable if we stop needing them.

Some days I wish it would just happen, one of the biggie box office disasters, so that we could have half or more of our species get eliminated. And we could find out who was going and who was staying.
Our oh so comfortable hi tech wasteful civilization needs a good kick in the balls maybe.
I often wonder, would it really be the end of the world?
I just keep remembering, we are part of nature, and nature must first burn a forest down before it can renew it.
Canada was a clean slate after the last ice age eh. Everything that was here before was covered with miles deep ice and scraped clean away. And yet it all got covered with green all over again all the same eh.

Sure, catastrophic events favor and select against favorable and unfavorable genes and/or traits through natural selection. Damn, you are right, why didn't I realize that sooner?

Let's have an earth-shattering class eight volcanic eruption that happens only about once every ten million years to successfully albeit "efficiently" wipe out half of the human population. (Who's going to think of the poor, innocent animals?!)

What a brilliant idea! Let's wipe out half of the human population, so that the world will be rid of the "bad" individuals, hence only the "good" individuals will be left.

By the way, I have no doubt that Judgment Day is at hand if there are other individuals who are as irrational and mindless as you.

[Bernard_Monsha]

So, just out of curiosity, when are you going to come up with verifiable evidence to support your position? As opposed to abstractions about the nature of politics and claims that the majority of scientists are conspiring to somehow make money by coming up with a lie about global warming.

I already have. My position is simply we do not know what causes it, historicaly these changes happen all the time. The only real effect we could have on it is not reported on in the media because it does not fit with their political ideaology. Once again it is not the majority of scientist do not agree that human civilization makes enough of an impact given other factors such as regular orbital wobbles, solar cycles, alterations in the earth's rotation. You also have a numbers game were people say things like man made greenhouse gas production has increased by 8 bajillion percent. It still remains under 5% of the total if you exclude the forgotten greehouse gas, if you include it it comes out to a little more than .1%. With all this stuff in the mix people are parroting "I have seen Ron Popiel on TV say it so it must be true" without presenting anything to the contrary.

[Len]

If you mean water vapor, then yes; however, water in a liquid state is not a gas, thus it can't be a greenhouse gas.

Yes, I forgot Vapor. Coming out of the exhaust won't be water so you have to agree with me on the typo. :P

Hmm pages 9 and 10 have a lot of posts with some very techy sounding talk in it, but really, you techy sounding posters don't appear to really see where our problem really lies.

It's simple, no one will ever accept it, not possible really, to accept it that is.

It's humanity, and humanity's numbers.

We're going to have to, and like I said before; Humans like to survive. Your post holds no merrit over history. We're historically procrastinators but not when it comes to death. Additionally, the needs you spoke of.. We dont NEED the things that we are using to destroy the ecosystem. These are called wants. Perhaps you should study sociology.[/

I already have. My position is simply we do not know what causes it, historicaly these changes happen all the time. The only real effect we could have on it is not reported on in the media because it does not fit with their political ideaology.

We know we're adding to it, it's not the problem that its happening at all! The problem is we're contributing, unlike ever ago when nothing was being pumped into the atmosphere.

Magnets are Magnets you can't change the physical properties of a magnet, it's a scientific law. it's Concrete.

No, but we can change the distance between the magnets, and the alloys which we use which are magnetic. Diodymium doesnt have to be used to my knowledge.

[Hopelesromantic]

Mel I don't think you understand the way I write my posts.

I will just leave it at that though, most of your responses were based on you misunderstanding what I said and how I said it.

[Len]

Mel I don't think you understand the way I write my posts.

I will just leave it at that though, most of your responses were based on you misunderstanding what I said and how I said it.

I think he interpreted them fine. You're obviously against the idea because of some sort of corporate denial. Does your job have anything to do with it? I dont think your opinions are needed if you're going to present moot to us. Mel's counter-post was perfect. :thumbsup:

[Kevin]

Keep the thread civil, and do not flame bait.

[earsofdoom]

I already have. My position is simply we do not know what causes it, historicaly these changes happen all the time.

Its true that for as long as the earth has existed it's heated and cooled, but thats the natural cycle. Humans have thrown there own into the mix and as a result the earth is holding more heat then ever before, just a couple of changes in temperature has a large impact. (example: glacial melting)

[HSaabedra]

My question is this: What can we do to slow down the heating cycle at this point?

[Len]

Thats been answered a lot. We use green house gas emitting belongings sparingly. We burn less, and produce less polution. Its going to 'have' to happen. We're already working on green energy and less poluting fuels. Slowing down is all we have to do, there is no way to stop the cycle we just have to stop feeding it. I've said it thousands of times. <3

[HSaabedra]

We should still work on our idea of energy generation through magnets.

[CrossboneGundam]

I already have. My position is simply we do not know what causes it, historicaly these changes happen all the time. The only real effect we could have on it is not reported on in the media because it does not fit with their political ideaology. Once again it is not the majority of scientist do not agree that human civilization makes enough of an impact given other factors such as regular orbital wobbles, solar cycles, alterations in the earth's rotation. You also have a numbers game were people say things like man made greenhouse gas production has increased by 8 bajillion percent. It still remains under 5% of the total if you exclude the forgotten greehouse gas, if you include it it comes out to a little more than .1%. With all this stuff in the mix people are parroting "I have seen Ron Popiel on TV say it so it must be true" without presenting anything to the contrary.

And you're parroting your claim that it's the evil scientists and politicians, sitting in their Ming the Merciless throne rooms, cackling maniacally as they sadistically destroy the petroleum industry and maliciously lead the world unwittingly toward the vile goal of environmental sustainability.

You can repeat this stuff as much as you want, that won't make it evidence. You haven't provided the mountains of scientific research that shows global warming doesn't exist, or the proof that scientists and politicians stand to gain some massive profit by making it all up.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/index.html
http://www.ipcc.ch/
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

Hell, even UFO fanatics actually try to come up with evidence for their positions, rather than just sitting around saying what amounts to "my abstractions and generalizations posted on an internet web forum without any supporting evidence whatsoever are absolutely true and need no support because the fact that I said it to begin with is undeniable proof!"

To make a claim that the entire scientific, journalistic and political communities are all in league with a secret conspiracy to take over the world with a myth of climate change is ludicrous to believe.

If they were all in cahoots, wouldn't you be a huge threat in that you're revealing their evil scheme to the world here? Why don't they just kill you?

[Old Ape Face]

Crossbone makes a good point, in providing evidence, However that bit of evidence is difficult to accumulate. Like your UFO analogy it's quite easy to make something apear fictional or factual, however, when it comes to natural causes, which require sustantual testing and evaluating, this evidence is hard to come by to make it sounds believable.

Difficulty might sound Obsolete to you however, the opinions are still fresh. If we can't test the opinion then what's the point in shareing it?

[Bernard_Monsha]

And you're parroting your claim that it's the evil scientists and politicians, sitting in their Ming the Merciless throne rooms, cackling maniacally as they sadistically destroy the petroleum industry and maliciously lead the world unwittingly toward the vile goal of environmental sustainability.

Nope i am merely surmiseing why people are fixated on fossil fuels. If you have a viable alternative as to why they ignore other factors than please present them.

You can repeat this stuff as much as you want, that won't make it evidence. You haven't provided the mountains of scientific research that shows global warming doesn't exist, or the proof that scientists and politicians stand to gain some massive profit by making it all up.

I never said it is not real, it is warming up but not for the sole reason the media presents. You have a lot of factors like livestock producing methane and N2O (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=warming), Solar Cycles (http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm), wobbles in the Earths orbit called the Milankovitch effect (http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm) and the general heating up caused by urbanization that skews numbers in the lower atmosphere. (http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/satanic5.pdf). You can also add contradictory information. The current logic states that the majority of CO2 has been released since 1940. The majority of the warming trend in recent history occured before 1940 and there was a cooling period from 1940 to 1970 which is exactly the opposite of what CO2 is supposed to do in the atmosphere. All this is really the tip of the iceberg, we have not even gotten into the percentage of CO2 man produces, the effects of deforestation, historical glacial movements, Oceanic current convection, population growth, seismic activity, vulcanism, Dendrological, archealogical, ice, rock, peat, mud, and silt samplings just to name a few other factors i don't have the time to get into.

Hell, even UFO fanatics actually try to come up with evidence for their positions, rather than just sitting around saying what amounts to "my abstractions and generalizations posted on an internet web forum without any supporting evidence whatsoever are absolutely true and need no support because the fact that I said it to begin with is undeniable proof!"

See above^

To make a claim that the entire scientific, journalistic and political communities are all in league with a secret conspiracy to take over the world with a myth of climate change is ludicrous to believe.


From one of the biggest advocates of the party line

We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest Dr. Stephen H. Schnieder (http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/)

From one of the scientist who do not exist.

In the long run, the replacement of the precise and disciplined language of science by the misleading language of litigation and advocacy may be one of the more important sources of damage to society incurred in the current debate over global warming Dr. Richard S. Lindzen (http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/LIND0710.html)

If they were all in cahoots, wouldn't you be a huge threat in that you're revealing their evil scheme to the world here? Why don't they just kill you?

Now you are just being silly.

[Len]

Need I post it again..?

Http://www.exxonsecrets.org

[Bernard_Monsha]

Need I post it again..?

Http://www.exxonsecrets.org


I saw Greenpeace Presents then closed it.

[Len]

Closed minds close doors.

[Evil_Koala]

Need I post it again..?

Http://www.exxonsecrets.org

www.bible.com


LOL! MY LINK PWNS UR LINK!

Exxon is the one with the tiger and krispy kreme donuts, yeah?

[Haro!]

www.bible.com


LOL! MY LINK PWNS UR LINK!

Exxon is the one with the tiger and krispy kreme donuts, yeah?
Animated kids bible!! It says nothing of global warming so we're good.
I'm not sure about Krispy Kreme donuts but they are in fact the one with the tiger.

[Evil_Koala]

Animated kids bible!! It says nothing of global warming so we're good.
I'm not sure about Krispy Kreme donuts but they are in fact the one with the tiger.

Dude I swear we always go to the exxon station to get Krispy Kreme donuts. I'll take a picture of me purchasing them...

[Rain]

Mel I don't think you understand the way I write my posts.

I will just leave it at that though, most of your responses were based on you misunderstanding what I said and how I said it.

Oh, I see through it all: your hypocritical values and your condescending attitude towards "younger individuals who are not of age."

...

However, that is not the purpose of this thread, so I'll ask you to enlighten me concerning your position on Global Warming, since it seems that I have thoroughly misunderstood you (and your posts).

[Len]

Summarization of Heartles's Opinions;

Lets kill everyone because I will only be alive for another 30 years anyway :lol:

It is quite ignorant, but he is entitled to his opinion (as apocalyptic as it seems. xD). It makes me giggle now that I got a bit of rest and some Midol. :P

[HSaabedra]

Some people just don't want to let go of condescending attitudes. If they do that then they cease to be different in their eyes. Anyway, I've thought about the impeller design and felt it best if it ran on ball bearings.

[Len]

Thats common sense. Nothing mechanical moves properly without bearings, except for Yuki Nagato.

[HSaabedra]

Thats common sense. Nothing mechanical moves properly without bearings, except for Yuki Nagato.

Yuki Nagato is merely data, and the impeller design I thought of would reduce the incidence of polarization

[Len]

How dare you insult Yuki Nagato!

....and can you share the design you brainstormed?

[HSaabedra]

How dare you insult Yuki Nagato!

....and can you share the design you brainstormed?

I calls it like I sees it :P and I'm on MSN right now.

[aoishonen7]

Right now there is a group of around 2000 (sorry if the number is off) scientists about to give an official report this week on the subject. And to be honest i think it's about time that we acknowlege that the human race is a force of nature. We already have affected our ecosystem dramaticaly with deforestation, oil spils, wiping out entire species and suburban sprawl. And since the human population of the earth is going to double within our lifetimes with more people about to consume fossil fuels and other limited resources it's way past our time to start using our tecnology to preserve the only place in the universe (so far) that can sustain human life. We only have on planet earth, it's time to take care it.

[Haro!]

Dude I swear we always go to the exxon station to get Krispy Kreme donuts. I'll take a picture of me purchasing them...

I hardly ever go to a gas station at all so I honestly don't know much. Though now that I know this I will look for an Exxon station the next time I'm in a car needing gas.

On topic: Is there any way to know for certain where it is the excess greenhouse gases are coming from?

[Old Ape Face]

I hardly ever go to a gas station at all so I honestly don't know much. Though now that I know this I will look for an Exxon station the next time I'm in a car needing gas.

On topic: Is there any way to know for certain where it is the excess greenhouse gases are coming from?

the earth itself, I mean naturally from the earth itself. Green House gasses are produced from plants and animals, but also from natural desastors like forest fires, floods, ecs in which releases a lot of the green house gasses on there own.

[Evil_Koala]

Oh bestill my heart. The Earth is a lot tougher than y'all think.

I hardly ever go to a gas station at all so I honestly don't know much. Though now that I know this I will look for an Exxon station the next time I'm in a car needing gas.

On topic: Is there any way to know for certain where it is the excess greenhouse gases are coming from?

Yeah, I wanna go there right now T_T

COWS

[Len]

Greenhouse Gases are produced any time anything is burned, ever. Carbon Dioxide, Water Vapor, Nitrous Oxide, CF4 (Tetrafluoramethane), Methane itself, C2F6, and many other combonations of Methane are Greenhouse Gases. The only ones posing any problem though are Carbon Dioxide and plain ol' Methane. Cows are Global Warming's biggest threat because of their 4 stomachs they produce more Methane then a garbage landfill!

[Evil_Koala]

I will not sit here while you spout your anti-Bovine comments. Cowsrael has every right to exist and I think that any talk of genocide of the Cowish race would be utterly extreme and unnecessary. Stop spouting propaganda.

[Len]

I never said lets kill the cows, I just stated they're a problem. Humans are a problem but I'm not talking about Homosapien Genoside. <3

[Evil_Koala]

Hitler never flat out said to the Germans "LETSA KILLA THE JEWSA!" He said they were a problem. I'M ON TO YOU ADOLF LEN! I'M ON TO YOU TOJO! NEVILLE MAY NOT, BUT I AM!

[Len]

... do you have anything of any value to offer to this thread? This is a serious matter. You're just flooding out information worthy of being read.

[GreatNekoKoneko]

Hitler never flat out said to the Germans "LETSA KILLA THE JEWSA!" He said they were a problem. I'M ON TO YOU ADOLF LEN! I'M ON TO YOU TOJO! NEVILLE MAY NOT, BUT I AM!

..since when did Hitler sound Italian? HALLO! It'sa me, Mario!

[Evil_Koala]

Oh sorry...I got my Hitler and Mussolini mixed up >_>

Uhh...

"VET US KEEEEEEEL DER JUDEN!" *insert overacting here*

Ma'am, in case you haven't noticed. I have been super serial the whole entire time. Cultural differences j00 knowden? (Anybody ever see that Snowden thing?) And I said some serial stuff...back there...

[Len]

You may be very well why nobody has posted. ._x;

[Evil_Koala]

You may be very well why nobody has posted. ._x;

Because they hate me. Why do you guys hate me, guys? I'm super serial, gosh.

[Len]

Nevermind.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Citing Godwin's law I now close the thread.