Char's mother

[Levon]

Anyone have any info on his mother?

[Amuro]

Hmm.. an interesting topic..
However, I doubt that there's much information available..
Maybe there's something in the Japanese Entertainment Bibles and similar info books?

[Magami No ER]

Hmm...I truly can't find anything on her. = l
Perhaps there's info on her in the Gundam: The Origin manga series, from what I've read of it of the "backstory" arcs. The one where Char meets Lalah is pretty interesting, if not canon, but I don't really care.
If true, it may allude to her previously unelaborated (that we know of) character. If his line in CCA's any indication, she probabaly wasn't involved in much of his life.

[Vaikyuko]

Either way, I'd imagine she's blonde and hot, considering how Char and Sayla look. XD

[Levon]

:lol: I very much agree Treize, would be nice if we saw her:wub:

[Magami No ER]

Char has a milf lawl.
It would make sense that she had the blonde gene, seeing as Zeon was a brunette.

[Solid_Snake]

Levon ASKING for something? Now I've seen it all. XD

[Suiko Eiji]

Was his mother killed when his father was assassinated? I can't find any information about her; though I assume that she was either dead or out of the picture by the time Daikun (sr.) was assassinated, otherwise, she probably would have been more involved with getting the children to Earth and in the care of the Mas family.

[Bernard_Monsha]

:lol: I very much agree Treize, would be nice if we saw her:wub:


LOL she might have been like Louser Luft from Aura Battler Dunbine and good old Zeon Daikun was not as stupid as Drake and had her offed post haste.

[Amuro]

The truth is probably that he was cloned from Darth Vader cells.. :naughty:

[Soluzar]

The truth is probably that he was cloned from Darth Vader cells.. :naughty:
What makes you say that? It's not as if there's any similarity whatsoever between the two characters... other than that they both wear a distinctive mask and helmet for part of their career.

I know it's a joke, but still... they are such utterly, completely different characters. It surprised me. I certainly don't think Vader was any kind of an inspiration for Char, which is what it seems like you're suggesting.

I know you think that Star Wars >>> ALL, but I don't think there's much (if anything) of Star Wars in MSG. Maybe in Zeta, but then Char would be more of a candidate for the Han Solo comparison than anything else.

Anyone have any info on his mother?
I have no information to offer you, but I am curious to know what prompted this request for information. What do you expect to learn by this? Do you have some theories that you'd like to confirm?

[Suiko Eiji]

What makes you say that? It's not as if there's any similarity whatsoever between the two characters... other than that they both wear a distinctive mask and helmet for part of their career.

I know it's a joke, but still... they are such utterly, completely different characters. It surprised me. I certainly don't think Vader was any kind of an inspiration for Char, which is what it seems like you're suggesting.

I know you think that Star Wars >>> ALL, but I don't think there's much (if anything) of Star Wars in MSG. Maybe in Zeta, but then Char would be more of a candidate for the Han Solo comparison than anything else.

I'm going out on a limb, and if I'm wrong, Amuro, please feel free to correct me; but I think it has to do with both Vader and Char's overflowing popularity and them being pop-cultural icons. Not everyone is a Star Wars fan, but most people know who Darth Vader is, or are able to understand quotes like "Luke... I and your father!". In the eighties and nineties in Japan, Char held a similar popularity. Not everyone in Japan is a weird, creepy otaku, but many would probably recognize Char Aznable. If that is still the case, I am not sure. I am fairly sure that on some of the top anime characters, Char still ranks within the top ten.

As far as a comparison to characterization, I can kind of agree that he would be a little more like Solo than Vader but I don't think either of them really capture how much of an extremist Char really was. I find a lot of fans in the US can empethise with Char's ideal of people living freely in Space, but few can support Char's willingness to erradicate the rest of humanity that sees things a little differently.

[Amuro]

I know you think that Star Wars >>> ALL
What makes you say that? I just think that most, if not all, modern sci-fi and cinema is inspired by Star Wars to a great degree, but I don't think that Star Wars is that great in itself.

I don't think there's much (if anything) of Star Wars in MSG.
That some things in MSG (like Beam Sabers, the samurai helmet and cape-wearing villain who likes to stare out viewports, and a few other things) are likely borrowed from Star Wars is something that I tend to be forced to admit in order to allow SW fans to take me seriously when I boast of Gundam's superiority. From what I recall, the original outline for Gundam was written before Star Wars' release, so obviously any element that was added due to its success in Star Wars was probably relatively small.

Char and Vader are drastically different characters, but, on the surface level, they play a similar role. Both function as a "cloud of darkness" that pursues the main characters and is almost godly in its prowress for 2/3 of the story and then eventually is matched and superseded by the main character. Sure, it might be a stereotypical plot element, but its also one that was largely absent from 20th century entertainment until Star Wars' release. Plus, both wear identically shaped helmets, minus the mask, (although I do realize the irony of claiming that a Japanese series "ripped-off" Star Wars' use of Samurai helmets) and are secretly related to one of the main characters. As for specific parallel scenes, I tend to recall the scene from Empire Strikes Back where we're shocked to see Vader in Cloud City in relation to the scene where Amuro is confronted by Char in Jaburo.

*shrug*

[CapnTylor]

I might be mistaken, but I thought the original novelization had a few words in it about Char's mother?

[Soluzar]

What makes you say that? I just think that most, if not all, modern sci-fi and cinema is inspired by Star Wars to a great degree, but I don't think that Star Wars is that great in itself.
Well yeah. That's what I meant. I was just being sloppy with my wording. What I should have said is that I know you have a constant tendancy to compare anything and everything to Star Wars, no matter how absurd and forced the comparison seems to me.

I just don't think you're right. I think that Star Wars has immense pop-culture significance, but I also think that there's a vast wealth of sci-fi that wasn't inspired even the tiniest little bit by Star Wars. I think that if you are looking for something, then you will be sure to find it. It seems to me that you're just determined to find potential comparisons between Star Wars and other sci-fi, and no matter how tenuous the connection is, it will then become further proof for this theory of yours.

That some things in MSG (like Beam Sabers, the samurai helmet and cape-wearing villain who likes to stare out viewports, and a few other things) are likely borrowed from Star Wars is something that I tend to be forced to admit in order to allow SW fans to take me seriously when I boast of Gundam's superiority.
I'm really going to have to take issue with ALL of those things. In order, then, my objections are as follows. While I admit that the Beam Saber is the most likely of these three to be a reference to Star Wars, I'd also point out that there were examples of a similar type of energy blade in sci-fi prior to Star Wars. You may find a non-exhaustive list in the Wikipedia article about Lightsabers. As for samurai helmets, you have already admitted that they are native to Japan, it's not obvious that their inclusion in Gundam in any capacity would indicate a reference to Star Wars. Your final example, and I quote: "a cape-wearing villain who likes to stare out viewports", is possibly too generic to be considered a reference. Staring out of viewports, you will find, is a common preoccupation for many characters in a variety of sci-fi, and you will also note that it is equally common for characters in naval fiction to stare out to sea, which I believe to be the origin of this mannerism. Sci-fi
often owes an enormous debt to naval fiction, in my opinion.

From what I recall, the original outline for Gundam was written before Star Wars' release, so obviously any element that was added due to its success in Star Wars was probably relatively small.Or even non-existant, but since you have already decided that there must be Star Wars references, I can see that you would therefore exclude this option. I'm not looking for any references other than those which I might naturally find, so I'm inclined to not exclude the possibility that Gundam makes no reference whatsoever to Star Wars.

Char and Vader are drastically different characters, but, on the surface level, they play a similar role. Both function as a "cloud of darkness" that pursues the main characters and is almost godly in its prowess for 2/3 of the story and then eventually is matched and superseded by the main character.
Vader didn't directly confront Luke Skywalker until nearly the end of the movie. In the opening scene, he is in pursuit of Princess Leia and her droids, and in his second appearance, his adversary is Obi-Wan Kenobi. It's not until much later that Luke is confronted by Vader, and even then there is little direct combat between them. Char is constantly engaged in direct combat with Amuro at the start of their story.

stereotypical plot element, but its also one that was largely absent from 20th century entertainment until Star Wars' release. Plus, both wear identically shaped helmets, minus the mask, (although I do realize the irony of claiming that a Japanese series "ripped-off" Star Wars' use of Samurai helmets) and are secretly related to one of the main characters.
With regards to the helmets, you've already exposed the fatal flaw in your argument. I'm just not prepared to take that idea seriously. If the helmets were both black, then I'd be inclined to lend it some credence, but as it stands, Char wears a Japanese style of helmet. That's not really too surprising in an animated show of Japanese origin. I'm inclined to apply Ockham's Razor to that particular argument.

You're technically correct to state that Char was related to both Sayla and to Zeon Zum Daikun, but doesn't that correlation start to break down as soon as you notice it? It's not as though Char was Amuro's father, or as though the Emperor in Star Wars turned out to be Vader's father. I could use this kind of 'evidence' to link any two series, because the things you're pointing out just aren't the same. They are merely similar, and not especially so.

As for specific parallel scenes, I tend to recall the scene from Empire Strikes Back where we're shocked to see Vader in Cloud City in relation to the scene where Amuro is confronted by Char in Jaburo.
Wait... wait... so you're telling me that the hero was surprised to see the villain? Do those scenes really seem similar to you? Dude, I'm having problems knowing what to write here...

Nothing about the scenes actually seems similar to me... other than the fact that the villain has appeared in a place which the white hats didn't expect him to be. That seems really, really generic to me. You could use it as an example of similarity... but only if you were determined to find similarities at any cost.

What I'm trying to say is that everything will appear similar to Star Wars... if you view it through a lens which automatically compares everything to Star Wars. Evangelion fans do it with Evangelion. Star Trek fans do it with Star Trek. Dragon Ball Z fans do it with Dragon Ball Z, and it seems equally forced to me in every case. You will see what you expect to see. That has been my experience.

I find the concept that Char could be considered similar to Vader frankly laughable even when confined to observations of his character in Mobile Suit Gundam, and far more so if we are to take the character of Char in the larger UC Gundam saga into account.

For one thing, although he is a Newtype, there is no event in Char's personal narrative which can be compared to Vader's return to the light side. By the end of Mobile Suit Gundam, he had simply carried out his plan to his own satisfaction. When he resurfaced in Zeta Gundam, it is arguable that he was still simply proceeding according to his own better judgement, with no vast change in his attitude. He had simply finished the task which he had set for himself. His reasons for joining the AEUG were simply that it offered the best chance for him of furthering his father's ideals, and all his actions in the series could be viewed as entirely consistent with his character from Mobile Suit Gundam.

In Char's Counterattack, the comparison breaks down even further. Far from being a character in the grip of the dark side who has returned to the light, Char proceeds (superficially at least) to develop in the opposite direction. I don't believe that now is the proper time to conduct an analysis of Char's motivations, and the events which brought him to the course of action depicted in this film, but it is arguable that once again, the character has remained entirely consistent. He has become more ruthless, and more prepared to take extreme measures to further his goals, but he is no more villain or hero than he has ever been.

As always, Casval Daikun remains a greyhat. His actions are neither heroic nor villainous, in the classic sense. He truly believes that he is acting for the greater good, and it is more tragic than anything else to see him brought to this point. Compare and contrast with Darth Vader, who is a classic blackhat. Never once does Vader offer any sign that he is acting out of any higher motive. He lives to serve his Emperor, who is quite unequivocally evil.

I'm going out on a limb, and if I'm wrong, Amuro, please feel free to correct me; but I think it has to do with both Vader and Char's overflowing popularity and them being pop-cultural icons. Not everyone is a Star Wars fan, but most people know who Darth Vader is, or are able to understand quotes like "Luke... I and your father!". In the eighties and nineties in Japan, Char held a similar popularity. Not everyone in Japan is a weird, creepy otaku, but many would probably recognize Char Aznable. If that is still the case, I am not sure. I am fairly sure that on some of the top anime characters, Char still ranks within the top ten.Amuro has indeed felt free to correct you. While I considered the possibility that he was simply comparing their status as pop-culture icons, my spider-sense was tingling, and I was convinced that he did indeed find some kind of a similarity between Vader and Char. Since I couldn't disagree more, I decided to cast down the gauntlet.

As far as a comparison to characterization, I can kind of agree that he would be a little more like Solo than Vader but I don't think either of them really capture how much of an extremist Char really was.
I agree entirely. I was simply stating that if one has the mentality which will compare anything and everything to Star Wars, regardless of any actual similarity, then Han Solo is the logical comparison for Char. I don't find that Char is similar to any character from Star Wars, but Amuro apparently does, and I was making an appeal to him in his own terms. It seems that I have failed, but I was a fool indeed to expect otherwise.

[Magami No ER]

Fool? XD
Look what you've gone and started, Levon. :P

[Soluzar]

Fool? XD
Well, this is Amuro we're talking about. The first time that he and I agree on something, I'm going to set my affairs in order, because that will surely be the first herald of the apocalypse. :P

Look what you've gone and started, Levon. :P
Don't blame him too much. An ideological war between Amuro and I is only ever a few seconds away from starting, once he's made a post. I guess in a way, I'm kind of like his Char. Or maybe his Vader. :lol:

[Suiko Eiji]

Don't blame him too much. An ideological war between Amuro and I is only ever a few seconds away from starting, once he's made a post. I guess in a way, I'm kind of like his Char. Or maybe his Vader. :lol:

Seriously, Soluzar and Amuro's relationship makes Khrushchev and Kennedy look like a lover's spat. Oh, history references.

[Amuro]

Well, honestly, I don't necessarily disagree with anything that you say, but, personally, I can't help but feel like Char is a graduate from the Vader school of villainy, which has little to do with his actual personality. I find it completely feasible that Yas and Tomino sat down and said, "Alright, here's our villain, I suppose he can be a bit like Star Wars' Darth Vader" and that his unique personality developed later, just like how Vader originally had little personality as well.

[Soluzar]

Seriously, Soluzar and Amuro's relationship makes Khrushchev and Kennedy look like a lover's spat. Oh, history references.
Even more seriously, I only hate the ideas, not the person who holds them. I've tried really hard, on most occasions, to avoid flaming the person, because that's just not called for. I usually give the ideas that he presents a good old-fashioned flame-grilling, but it's nothing... personal.

[Soluzar]

Seriously, Soluzar and Amuro's relationship makes Khrushchev and Kennedy look like a lover's spat. Oh, history references.
Even more seriously, I only hate the ideas, not the person who holds them. I've tried really hard, on most occasions, to avoid flaming the person, because that's just not called for. I usually give the ideas that he presents a good old-fashioned flame-grilling, but it's nothing... personal.

Well, honestly, I don't necessarily disagree with anything that you say, but, personally, I can't help but feel like Char is a graduate from the Vader school of villainy, which has little to do with his actual personality.
I think I would need to watch Mobile Suit Gundam again to formulate a truly exhaustive response, because I can't be entirely certain of the facts that would form the basis of my counter-argument.

I'd have to point out one difference though. Char rose through the ranks as an ace pilot. He was promoted on the basis of merit. His achievements gained him his place in the Zeon military structure. He was not at the top of that military structure though, or even near to it. He took orders from those above him, in theory at least. Contrast that with Vader who was promoted on the basis that he was strong in the dark side of the force. Nobody would question that he had the skill of commanding through fear down to a fine art, but he wasn't necessarily depicted as an ace pilot. In fact, I only recall one occasion on which he actually piloted anything. He was also near to the top of the command structure. In fact, there didn't seem to be anyone above him other than the Emperor. He didn't have any intention to betray the imperial forces, which also sets him aside from Char. His change of heart at the end of Return of the Jedi was a spur-of-the-moment decision, not a premeditated act of betrayal.

I could keep going with this for hours. The differences are huge.

[Amuro]

:D And I don't even hate the ideas, not to mention the person, I just like certain other ideas better.