Gundam Seed Destiny problems

[Haruhi]

Recently, I finished my first Gundam series, SEED. And I absolutely loved it. However, I read that Destiny isn't nearly as good all the way to it just sucking. Could somebody please elaborate on why it's considered so inferior, and how much so?

Additionally, I heard there was a LOT of backstage politics involving the writers, producers and the fans. I'd like some information on that as well.

Thanks. I purchased the first 4 DVDs already, but haven't started them yet.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Recently, I finished my first Gundam series, SEED. And I absolutely loved it. However, I read that Destiny isn't nearly as good all the way to it just sucking. Could somebody please elaborate on why it's considered so inferior, and how much so?

Additionally, I heard there was a LOT of backstage politics involving the writers, producers and the fans. I'd like some information on that as well.

Thanks. I purchased the first 4 DVDs already, but haven't started them yet.


It starts off very strong but peters out aboput halfway and it is about 10% filler, not the off story Inu Yasha filler the pointless recap episode filler. More frustratingly the writers build up relationships then cut them off for no reason or have people hook up for no reason, the main character takeing a back seat is another reason I do not reccomend this series. That and the fact it put ZZ on the back burner.

[Vaikyuko]

Main characteritis is a HUGE thing in DESTINY. Shinn is supposed to be the top character, but is often overshadowed by Athrun. When Kira reappears, he overshadows just about everyone. Fukuda couldn't seem to decide which one was the main character. Overall, DESTINY is pretty good until the late middle, where it starts to, as aforementioned, peter out, with nonsensical decisions made by characters, including some who are supposedly war tacticians and borderline geniuses.

In the end, it comes to a very cliche, forced ending. Overall, I don't think it deserved the reputation it got, but it certainly didn't earn a good one, either. I say it was good, then turned sour. That's all.

[Amurogay]

Oh my God episode 47 made me want to seriously end myself!! I'm not gonna do spoilers, but those who have seen it, c'mon who didn't see that Sh*t coming? and then to spend a whole damn episode moping about it?! christ!!

Also could someone tell me whats up with the "final plus" OAV? should I waste my time downloading it?

[Amuro]

Personally, i thoroughly enjoyed watching it.

While it may not have been the most refined work, it wasn't that bad either (heck, if only I had a show as entertaining to watch now..), and it gave the community a whole lot to discuss. The evolution of the Cosmic Era universe as a whole was quite well done and, in my opinion, more consistant with the style of Seed than Zeta's style was with MSG's. The series asked some interesting questions, proposed some interesting ideas, and presented no lack of things to think about. Plus, the Seed franchise continues to pump out scenes that are fun to rewatch an endless number of times, even if they're not necessarily the most well-used.

The middle section of the series fumbled the ball but never became difficult to watch. It remained very enjoyable and one of the highlights of my week, even if I'm in no rush to watch it again.

Stick with it and form your own opinions is what I reccomend.

In the end, I'm quite happy with this series' existance as a part of the larger Gundam saga..


Also could someone tell me whats up with the "final plus" OAV? should I waste my time downloading it?
It's a remixed last episode with added footage that brings it up to 45 minutes. If you have an interest in seeing a "better ending" of Seed Destiny, I think that it's definitely worthwhile.

It's still not the best ending in Gundam history, but I think that Final Plus saves it from being one of the worser ones. It's a more respectable ending and flows quite well without leaving a feeling of "that's it?"

[Amurogay]

Nice. Thanks.
Also, Haruhi, if you depend on other people to form your opinions for you, you're gonna miss out on a lot of good stuff. Especially it you get your info from cynical pricks like your average fan-boy, seriously, these people have a love/hate ratio of like 1/10, makes you wonder why they even bother watching anime. So they'll have a steady supply of things to bitch about I suppose...

[Haruhi]

Nice. Thanks.
Also, Haruhi, if you depend on other people to form your opinions for you, you're gonna miss out on a lot of good stuff. Especially it you get your info from cynical pricks like your average fan-boy, seriously, these people have a love/hate ratio of like 1/10, makes you wonder why they even bother watching anime. So they'll have a steady supply of things to bitch about I suppose...

Truthfully, Seed was the first Gundam series I finished (I watched bits and pieces of Wing on VHS, like 24 episodes, and some of G on CN), so I don't really have a refined taste in Gundam. That said, I definitely plan on watching on my own.

I also heard something about the producers wife completely blowing off fans in an interview? Whats that about?

[Westlo]

Main characteritis is a HUGE thing in DESTINY. Shinn is supposed to be the top character, but is often overshadowed by Athrun. When Kira reappears, he overshadows just about everyone. Fukuda couldn't seem to decide which one was the main character.

About time someone friggin said that, people always say Kira takesover from Shinn ye never seem to mention Athrun dominating the early storyline. Apparantly seeing 40 second transformations every episode > plot for most people.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I also heard something about the producers wife completely blowing off fans in an interview? Whats that about?


It is a trend with directors lately their wives get them to either butcher their current work like Fukuda or go back and change the Jewel in the Crown of the franchise like Tomino.

[Chavelo]

I don't think Shin was ever really the main character. Yes we do see his family get killed at the start of the show. But then we see Athrun and we keep seeing him. They also keep throwing Kira in though it never seemed like he took over. Personally I like this because it doesn't stick you with one main character.

A few bads things are openly ripped off mobile suits. Zaku, Gouf, and especially the Dom. All the filler they cram in. The forced ending. Honestly it seemed like maybe they needed to stop and take a breather. But they just kept going from major battle to major battle to major battle.

Also it seemed like they re-used a lot of the old mecha from Seed.

MSG to Z was a leap in terms of mecha. But those are several years apart which leaves room for new designs. Advance of Zeta is filling in the gaps though.

EDIT: Also probably one of the things I hate most is that they took a further step away from realistic mecha war and a step towards super robots.

[MightyDustLoop]

Destiny left a bad taste in my mouth. I thoroughly enjoyed SEED. I was somehow able to overlook its faults. A few scars can make something more interesting every now and then. And some of the elements were so excellent it made it a show much greater than the sum of its parts for myself. I thought for sure it would be eternally cemented in my top ten list of anime, and since I've seen quite a few, it says a lot on how great I thought it was.

Let's just say Destiny left a taste in my mouth so bad I'm unable to see SEED in the same way anymore. With Destiny, it was a slap in the face that the flaws in SEED were just thought, poorly written plotholes.

Its of course your decision to see it or not. But I wouldn't go at it in a "what have I got to lose" light. If you herald SEED at all, it may very well lose its luster by watching this poorly written garbage. But that's up to you to decide, as there are certainly people who enjoy it, and I've gotta admit, the prospect of more of what you enjoy is pretty much impossible to avert. I may hate having seen it myself, but even had I known that, my curiosity would have inevitably led me to the same path.

[Soaker87]

Why don't I like Destimy?

The short version: The general maiming of both Athrun and Cagalli's characterization, as well as their realtionship

The long version: The plot started off well, but soon developed into nonsense. It started to get progressively worse, but was at least tolerable until about half way through. Because of how much I enjoyed Seed, I was highly disappointed by this all. Then there were other little problems with it, such as the unfailing perfection that they gave to Lacus' character (she used to be one of my favorites, but she got really annoying really fast) the constant switching of the main character, the fillers, and the fact that Mwu was revived from the dead. There was no possible way he could've lived. Even if he could've lived somehow, I always feel that reviving the dead ruins the drama of their death scene.

[Sebbu-sama]

I was kinda lucky that i watched destiny first and then gundam seed lol. Dunno why i did that but it was enjoyable that way ^^

[Vaikyuko]

Why don't I like Destimy?

The short version: The general maiming of both Athrun and Cagalli's characterization, as well as their realtionship

The long version: The plot started off well, but soon developed into nonsense. It started to get progressively worse, but was at least tolerable until about half way through. Because of how much I enjoyed Seed, I was highly disappointed by this all. Then there were other little problems with it, such as the unfailing perfection that they gave to Lacus' character (she used to be one of my favorites, but she got really annoying really fast) the constant switching of the main character, the fillers, and the fact that Mwu was revived from the dead. There was no possible way he could've lived. Even if he could've lived somehow, I always feel that reviving the dead ruins the drama of their death scene.

Fukuda has a problem with situations like what you spoilered. Fact, his helmet was outside his cockpit, too, and then they removed it for the movies to try and cover it up. Fukuda's done it three times, from SEED to DESTINY - once in the desert arc of SEED, once not too long after that (near the thirtyish eps, only explained through a side story MANGA, for God's sake), and lastly, the incident you mentioned. Oh, wait, there's incidents like that in DESTINY too.

[HitokiriShadow]

I don't think Shin was ever really the main character. Yes we do see his family get killed at the start of the show. But then we see Athrun and we keep seeing him. They also keep throwing Kira in though it never seemed like he took over. Personally I like this because it doesn't stick you with one main character.

That's the problem. Shinn was SUPPOSED to be the main character. But he was only the main character in a couple of episodes. Athrun was more or less the main character for about half the series and then it switched to Kira and then it couldn't figure out WHO the main character was.

A few bads things are openly ripped off mobile suits. Zaku, Gouf, and especially the Dom.

It wasn't a rip off as they never pretended it wasn't taken straight out of U.C. They where more of throw back, somewhat similar to Turn-A's Zakus. But the series never really explains the sudden switch from the suits used in SEED and how they were able to produce so many and almost completely replace the old ones in only two years.

All the filler they cram in.

They certainly set a record for recap episodes. They had 5 or 6, including several in the last 10 episodes.



I also heard something about the producers wife completely blowing off fans in an interview? Whats that about?

I don't remember much from that interview, except her stupid comment that Athrun and Cagalli didn't really love each other :rolleyes:

[MightyDustLoop]

Yeah, Shinn got screwed. He wasn't likable though. His beliefs were in contradiction to those we heralded as Kira and Athrun fans at the end of the first series.

It's not his fault at all though. The writers should have known the audience would respond that way, and that they might lose some of the viewership but they need to stay the course.

The problem wasn't that Shinn didn't know everything that was going on in the world around him. The problem was that we, the viewers, often did. And thus the "What an idiot." "Such a hypocrite." "You're so off you moron. You weren't even there." are all natural responses to seeing Shinn in action. But whoever decided to tell the story that way didn't do a very good job of staying the course. Since he wasn't likable, they just started cutting his screentime to keep the viewers.

[HitokiriShadow]

Yeah, Shinn got screwed. He wasn't likable though. His beliefs were in contradiction to those we heralded as Kira and Athrun fans at the end of the first series.

Well, that's not a problem in and of itself. Everyone has to start somewhere and there isn't anything wrong with the main character of a sequal series going a different direction than the one from the previous series. And we don't want the characters to be the same, because that would be boring. Camille wasn't exactly an Amuro clone; heck, Shinn is basically the CE version of Camille (well, before the writers crapped out the last 10 or so episodes).

The problem is basically what you said after that:

It's not his fault at all though. The writers should have known the audience would respond that way, and that they might lose some of the viewership but they need to stay the course.

The show's script and scenario had numerous problems for various reasons. Not staying the course was one of them. But I wouldn't say it was just a ratings problem. Part of the problem was that Shinn had low screentime from the get-go and the focus was already on Athrun more than Shinn. From the very first episode, Shinn felt like a supporting character rather than the main character.

Yes, they should have stayed the course, but it was their fault to begin with. Not to mention, if the ratings get too low, the show gets canned, even if its Gundam (see Gundam X, possibly MSG).

[Ariel Tsuki]

To me, Destiny just pointed out how glaringly bad the whole SEED saga was in terms of writing, anyway. Still have kick-*** characters though, they just wasted them. The point of GSD was fanservice, fanservice, fanservice.


I don't remember much from that interview, except her stupid comment that Athrun and Cagalli didn't really love each other :rolleyes:

Actually, I think they never should've been together in the first place. It never felt right and it looked like an excuse just to pair up people for the sake of it.