The Martial Artist's Thread

[MythicQilin]

Thread for sharing and discussing the martial arts you practice ^^

[rayndeon]

A small list of martial arts I have taken:

Shotokan Karate (currently active)
Tae Kwon Do (currently active)
Fencing (currently active)
Kendo (currently inactive)
Hapkido (currently inactive)
Judo (currently inactive)
Aikido (currently inactive)

I've been mostly focusing on my fencing. I prefer a French handle, not a pistol grip. I can handle a pistol fine though. It gives me a bit of dexterity that I can work around. I fence mostly in French, but I've used a fair bit of Italian elements. When free-fencing, I mostly do not try to be overtly offensive. However, if I see an opening, I'll really go for it.

[ben93085]

I practice White-man-do.
Kick'em in the nutz, and upercut to the nose.

I have always wanted to take Judo though.

[Reidar]

I train in western boxing and muay thai on my own for the time being. For what it's worth (not much), I achieved the rank of black belt in tae kwon do at the inappropriate age of twelve. I threw the belt away in disgust and quit the school the next day.

Being on my own, I find fights wherever I can. My striking precedes any grappling skills I have; if I'm taken to the ground, aside from knowledge of the extreme basics (keeping inside guard, basic joint-locks, leverage), my only asset would be to muscle through their technique. I'm going to enroll in Brazilian jiu jitsu when I can afford it (and a bike; skateboarding takes too long).

Training log: http://www.xanga.com/l3loodFist

[regus 5000]

i used to take tae kwon do and made it to blue belt but i had t quit so i could focus on school

[Danju]

I know Whoop Yo ***! :unsure:

[Catalyst-40]

I, too, use to take Tae Kwon Do class at an early age. But I never advanced beyond a white belt -_-;. I quit the class early for a variety of reasons (i.e. it was too far, my mom had to work at night, etc.).

I am interested in learning other martial-arts (Judo and Muay Thai Boxing), but I need to find the time for it (and a place).

[Fobb]

Why were you disgusted (sp?) that you got a blackbelt so early?


I took taekwondo until purple belt, but had to move, so I discontined. It helped me develop my own self defense "form" though.

[Holy Knight]

I've done two years of Judo and five years of Karate. I'm now doing my third year of Choy Lee Fu Kung-Fu.

Why were you disgusted (sp?) that you got a blackbelt so early?

It is not an accurate show of his level of mastery. If you get a black belt at that age, you're either a prodigy or you're enrolled in a McDojo. I'm guessing it was a McDojo.

[Professor Funk]

I'm only 16 but as of now I'm training to become a mixed martial artist. I take muay thai classes with my personal coach who fought most of his life in Taiwan and China. I also wrestle (I know it's not martial arts) but I'm a strong believer in wrestlers not only being the best athletes but the hardest workers. Hands down wrestling (grappling) is the best possible thing an MMA fighter can know.

[master terrence]

Tae Kwon Do (Cho do Kwon) - black belt, but inactive

I'm going to try Hapkido next after my XC season is over.

I didn't get my black belt early at all. Five years of practice, every day counted. The test was really good too. Did every form(kata) I knew, and did it 2-3 times because I maybe made a mistake... or because I did it so well, he wanted to see it again... maybe just to test my endurance a little more. Had to break many boards, do the forms again blind folded and at angles and with a partner (symetry). At the end, I had three 2:00 minute fights with higher ranking black belts. I conditioned really well for the test though. It was a blast... painful, but great.

In some tests of other styles, people's pain tolerance (or whatever you want to call it) was tested... by hitting them with staffs. 3 vs. 1 fights. Some great stuff.

...beats the hell out of just paying money for your belt (McDojo's). Some people just get a black belt like it is nothing. Skill is all the merit you have and need in the end though.

[Reidar]

I also wrestle (I know it's not martial arts)

Wrestling is a martial art.

Whenever I see little kids getting black belts, I try to think of exactly how they'd fare in a real combat situation. At twelve, there were much older adults ranked lower than me at the school, but realistically, there was no way I'd be able to fight them evenly. My attacks would be nothing to them. Doing that is dangerous to the child because of the false self-confidence it builds.

A black belt only covers two inches of your ***; it's up to you to cover the rest. A child isn't capable of doing that.

[master terrence]

Breakfast:

10 egg whites
2 whole eggs
6 small tomatoes
8 slices of salami
2 waffles with butter and syrup
2 slices of wheat toast
1 cup of milk
1 multivitamin

dude, I thought I ate alot :|


question posed to Reidar:

What do you do on the jump rope (switch legs..)? I'm looking for crazy ideas to improve and challenge myself with. I picked up jump roping too over summer (but had to put it down due to achilles tendonities v.v). How long have you been doing it and how many jumps can you get up to?

I've got up to 300 with a rope (not speed rope) for 3ish minutes. I have to work at it too, I'm looking to go 20 minutes continuous and constant.

[kenshinbebop]

I took Wu Shu. It was great, but I had to quit for basketball season. :/
Never got back to it for some reason.

I still remember a lot of stuff though. I love sparring with my friends, though I'd barely call it sparring. They never took anything so it's really just a fight. Normally incorperated with wretling rules.

[Reidar]

dude, I thought I ate alot :|


question posed to Reidar:

What do you do on the jump rope (switch legs..)? I'm looking for crazy ideas to improve and challenge myself with. I picked up jump roping too over summer (but had to put it down due to achilles tendonities v.v). How long have you been doing it and how many jumps can you get up to?

I've got up to 300 with a rope (not speed rope) for 3ish minutes. I have to work at it too, I'm looking to go 20 minutes continuous and constant.

I only started doing it regularly this year, so I'm not very good at it. I usually mix it in with shadow boxing and bag work for one consecutive round of a cardio circuit for variety's sake (i.e., five minutes of heavy bag hitting, five minutes of jump rope, and five minutes of shadowboxing all followed after one another). I don't count skips, just like I don't count how many hits I do on the speed bag or how many steps I accomplish on a run.

Have you tried doing HIIT with it? It'll force you to keep a clear head and not get used to the rope speed.

[master terrence]

Ya, I usual would do it after a long run. The problem is timing :lol: I train alone, no one is going to time me for sets of 30 seconds, so I have to find a clock. HIIT on the rope is a good idea though, it is something highly aerobic I can do when stuck in the house.

[LOSTyears]

^I do about 3-4 rounds(3min) on the rope, a good rule of thumb I follow is to constantly keep moving. Even when you mess up you try to keep that motion going even if its a small jog in place. Its alot more beneficial that stopping and going with every mistake, you want keep that rhythm till it becomes natural. I normally do regular jumps, kickbacks, skipping, ski slalom(both feet or alternating), one leg, double jumps, etc. Mix it up a little. Trying to learn the criss cross right now and keep whipping the back of my head -_-;

For what it's worth (not much), I achieved the rank of black belt in tae kwon do at the inappropriate age of twelve. I threw the belt away in disgust and quit the school the next day.I can feel where your coming from. Got my black belt at the exact same age. The training was tough especially for that age, but in the back of mind I knew theres was much more that could of gone into it. That level holds a certain amount of weight that to be quite honest no kid in the age bracket can or should hold.

Also read that your looking for wraps for your wrist, check out ringside (http://www.ringside.com/). They have some good quality equipment for all levels of boxing and mixed martial arts gear. The catalog has a more extensive inventory than the website. The mexican-style hand wraps(I use) give a good firm fit on the wrist and knuckles and their semi-elastic, last a while.

Right now I'm boxing at a amateur level, pretty much have all the basics and foundations down. The real trick is keeping up and balancing that with conditioning, it can be a real *****. Right now I'm awaiting my in ring debut that should come some time in late Winter, I'm real stoked.

[MythicQilin]

I took Wu Shu. It was great, but I had to quit for basketball season. :/
Never got back to it for some reason.


Wushu is just the general term in the chinese language for martial arts. I would be interested what style you studied and whether it was internal or external.

[Fobb]

I've always believed that achieving a blackbelt is more than just an accomplishment in terms of physical strength, but also an accomplishment in the terms of self discipline. So if you think about it in those terms, having a black belt at that age isn't really an "insult" to your skill, unless of course, you feel you haven't lived up to the standard of a black belt. A black belt signifies the hard work put into getting this far, no matter what age you are. As most of you already should know, the original belt colors were...well, NATURALLY colored. This shows how much self discipline it must take to achieve such a rank. I firmly believe that if any kid can achieve the rank, then they are worthy of it.

[tofuman]

I'm currently a yellow belt in Shaolin kempo. I've also done Muay Thai, Boxing, Fencing, and a little Brazilian Jujitsu. In January i'll be living in Japan for 2 months and while i'm there i'll be taking Karate.

[Reidar]

That's but one aspect that a black belt should represent of the martial artist. Discipline is only a means to the end. The end is the fighter's capabilities. The term in itself means nothing; one can be disciplined at learning poor material. Where would the value be in that?

I see lots of highly disciplined kids at the tae kwon do studio that my friend works at, but that doesn't mean that they're able fighters. The average full-grown male would destroy them due to the strength disproportion alone, regardless of their discipline.

[rayndeon]

That's but one aspect that a black belt should represent of the martial artist. Discipline is only a means to the end. The end is the fighter's capabilities. The term in itself means nothing; one can be disciplined at learning poor material. Where would the value be in that?

I see lots of highly disciplined kids at the tae kwon do studio that my friend works at, but that doesn't mean that they're able fighters. The average full-grown male would destroy them due to the strength disproportion alone, regardless of their discipline.

That's very true. While elements of martial arts are certainly steeped in discipline, honor, et cetra, it remains somewhat obvious that a significant focus of martial arts has to with, well, obviously enough, actually possessing the ability to defend one's self and cause sufficient harm to any assailant.

The ancient martial arts masters retained some practicality. Their art was born and refined in war. They understood that martial arts was a way to kill another person, not wholly focused on mere discipline.

That discipline comes with martial arts is an excellent thing. But, the overwhelming focus on it that seems to preclude actual skill (not that discipline isn't important! Don't get me wrong), is more of a consequence of, at least for the Japanese, the Tokugawa Shogunate, where, with the relatively infrequency of major wars, the martial artist no longer attached himself to practicality as much anymore.

At least, that's how I view it.

[ben93085]

Yeah, I'm totally good with a shotgun. Not bad with a pistol.
I'm a reletivly passive person, so when I want to fight, it's usually to the death.

[Suiko Eiji]

I suppose you could sonsider me one of those "ninjers". Out of practice mostly, but even when I was training I did very little with the "ninjery" arts - most of my training revolved around the other ryuha/ryugi in our system.

I've been interested in taking up some other classical Japanese arts, as well as Judo; however, time, money, and location are awfully unpermitting at the moment.

Yeah, I'm totally good with a shotgun. Not bad with a pistol.
I'm a reletivly passive person, so when I want to fight, it's usually to the death.

I've seen very few people who aren't "good" with a shotgun. I'm a fair shot with a pistol, as in, I can hit targets however my grouping is god-awful. Oddly enough, I prefer rifle shooting. For some reason, I can do better at slightly longer distances with higher caliber stuff.

[Fobb]

Okay, fair enough, that is true, you do need to be able to defend yourself. But what more can you learn once you've learned all the required material for the certain belt you are at? Being a black belt doesn't mean that you have reached the end of the learning phase, matter of fact, it means that it has only begun. The other belts are to get the preliminaries out of the way. "You must crawl before you walk". If you don't have a basic understanding of the....basics, then it wouldn't matter if you were the strongest man on earth, you would NOT have an easy time being a black belt. For instance, in my old dojo, I was a yellow/orange belt, and I was destroying most of the junior black belts while sparring. I was young too, but no matter how young someone of a higher degree belt was, I could never beat them.

[Suiko Eiji]

Okay, fair enough, that is true, you do need to be able to defend yourself. But what more can you learn once you've learned all the required material for the certain belt you are at? Being a black belt doesn't mean that you have reached the end of the learning phase, matter of fact, it means that it has only begun. The other belts are to get the preliminaries out of the way. "You must crawl before you walk". If you don't have a basic understanding of the....basics, then it wouldn't matter if you were the strongest man on earth, you would NOT have an easy time being a black belt. For instance, in my old dojo, I was a yellow/orange belt, and I was destroying most of the junior black belts while sparring. I was young too, but no matter how young someone of a higher degree belt was, I could never beat them.

On Black Belts
I can't speak for Korean arts as I've never really studied the concept of how thier ranking structure originated, especially with modern arts like Tae Kwon Do; I'm personally much more interested in the history, which is neither here nor there.

However, while I tend to agree that "you have to be able to crawl before you can walk", I think there is a different, implied message in the meaning of Shodan (a black belt). It doesn't only mean you know your basics but it means having a deep understnading not just of what they are, but also why they are in a given system. Having that understanding is what allows you to survive on your techniques, and from there, that's where the "real learning" begins. It also means being a responsible member of your perticular organization. It is something that takes discipline, true, but there are principles, privledges, and responsibility associated with those ranks that children, teenagers, and I'll hesitantly include young adults, cannot yet comprehend.

On Self-Discipline
Rayndeon was right in that the track of 'self-discipline' didn't begin to evolve as a chracteristic in martial arts until the Tokugawa Period, at least in Japanese martial arts. Though, I'm hesitant to say that even in this period, this discipline while applicable in other phases of life, is not the same as the "life-long learining path" exemplified by Kano Jigoro with the foundations of modern Judo in the Meiji Period or Ushiba Morihei with Aikido in the Shouwa Period.

On the change of Japanese arts over time
While Japan was not involved in the civil strife that formed ryugi like Ittou Ryu, Kashima Shin Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, etc. during the Tokugawa Period, minor strife did occur and personal duels were rampant. Even systems developed in the more peaceful Tokugawa era maintained what is viewed as traditional practicality. What changed was the battlefield. Making the arts safer for sporting competition* wasn't developed until the near mid-Meiji Period, again thanks to Kano, who himself had several "degrees" in those battlefield arts.

[Reidar]

Competition existed much earlier than that. Wrestling was a combative sport as early as 3000 BCE.

[Fobb]

However, while I tend to agree that "you have to be able to crawl before you can walk", I think there is a different, implied message in the meaning of Shodan (a black belt). It doesn't only mean you know your basics but it means having a deep understnading not just of what they are, but also why they are in a given system. Having that understanding is what allows you to survive on your techniques, and from there, that's where the "real learning" begins. It also means being a responsible member of your perticular organization. It is something that takes discipline, true, but there are principles, privledges, and responsibility associated with those ranks that children, teenagers, and I'll hesitantly include young adults, cannot yet comprehend.
I don't see what age has to do with being able to comprehend these responsibilites you mention. Sure it's true that this all increases with age, but it isn't ALWAYS so. I know a lot of "kids" who are a lot more mature than a lot of adults I know.

[Suiko Eiji]

Competition existed much earlier than that. Wrestling was a combative sport as early as 3000 BCE.

Was that directed at me? Because I don't think I indicated anything close to denying this statement.

Oh ... damn it, I meant to include a footnote there:

*Kano developed Judo for the explicit purpose of making the classical jujutsu forms safer to compete with. Athletes with fewer injuries compete more, compete better and are able to help train the new generation better.

I never intended to infer that "Kano is why we have combative sports", though that might have been what it looked like.

I know a lot of "kids" who are a lot more mature than a lot of adults I know.

I would make it a personal call at that point.

I personally feel that unless someone has been training rigourously since an incredibly young age, mixed with a little bit of prodigy, teens with shodan should be met with a little bit of skepticism. I would have expected the same were I awarded that rank at that age.

I don't see what age has to do with being able to comprehend these responsibilites you mention. Sure it's true that this all increases with age, but it isn't ALWAYS so.

I feel like I am doing a horrible job of explaining this... I feel that if someone who reaches a mature adult age but cannot handle the responsibilities I briefly mentioned, they shouldn't be awarded that rank. I've never heard someone say "My, she acts mature for a 40 year old!"; when you get to that age, you are expected to be and act mature at that age. When I hear someone say likewise about someone who acts mature for a 16 or 17 year old, well, look at their competition! I mean, I would say I acted very mature for a 16 year old and I'd rather not get into the laundry list of stupid stuff I got myself involved into.

Again, I still feel like I am failing at explaining this, so we might have to go separate ways on this one.

[Reidar]

That's a completely different statement from saying, "Making the arts safer for sporting competition* wasn't developed until the near mid-Meiji Period" under a header that broadly reads, "On the changes of arts over time" (inferring all arts), but I did notice the asterisk, so I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

On the issue of responsibility, that's still a means to the end of what martial arts are about: fighting.

If a martial artist is rude, obnoxious, and irresponsible, but nevertheless a phenomenal fighter, they deserve the rank. Not so vise-versa.

[Suiko Eiji]

That's a completely different statement from saying, "Making the arts safer for sporting competition* wasn't developed until the near mid-Meiji Period" under a header that broadly reads, "On the changes of arts over time" (inferring all arts), but I did notice the asterisk, so I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

Whom I originally quoted was talking about Japanese martial arts and those were the arts I was referring to. Subject header changed.

[Holy Knight]

Anyone who has the fighting ability deserves a black belt. I've seen videos of some extremely talented youngsters that I would not dare to cross. For example, I once saw two 7 year old Shaolin Kung-Fu apprentices using swords in a way I don't quite think I could ever achieve.

I agree with Reidar that fighting abilities are the sole criteria for determining the level of the fighter. If a school wants to add in other things like respect, responsibilities, then let them. This only means the fighter is either "of virtue" according to them.

Then again, attaining black belt status doesn't mean anything if you aren't in competition. If you aren't measuring yourself up to others, you don't really have a rank, I say.

[master terrence]

I loved tournaments... they were point fighting tournaments of course. I didn't have a NASKA raiting though ... those tournaments were way to expensive. I have a nice collection of trophies (each one with a cool story... which is why I keep'em around) from tournaments.

I remember going to another local school for a tournament as a brown belt and wrecking all the black belts day (in my age division). I showed off big with my first point, stunned the whole crowd. The fight had just begun and he threw a few punches and I got my distance down, the first strike I threw was a high round house the landed right on the top of his head gear. It was perfect and fast. I loved it... I think only two people saw it coming... the judges.

I know it isn't some hardcore UFC story, but I had alot of fun.

[Fobb]

Well, I guess I won't be able to convince you to see it my way, which is great actually. To each his/her own.

[master terrence]

you do realize that soccer moms take little timmy into McDojo, sign an expensive contract, and little timmy is a black belt in as little as a year as long as he shows up.... regardless of work in some McDojo's.

BTW, contracts are generally a good sign of a McDojo (not always though). I don't like contract Dojos.

[MythicQilin]

hearing the talk about the mcdojo's, I'm in a way happy that baguazhang is not well known. The only way to learn it is to find a master and learn from him. I got lucky in that it turned out my old elementary school principal is a master in baguazhang as well as a number of other chinese martial arts.

[Fobb]

^Yeah...I was pretty aware of it. What I wasn't aware was that the word McDojo was going around. lol. Is it a new thing?

[LOSTyears]

Thats the sad thing about a good majority of dojo's today, they become commercialized and tradition takes the back seat. It was the initial downfall of the school I went to & one of the reasons I left.

[blackknight]

I took 2 years of mixed martial arts from a man who was a 2nd degree black belt of one form (can't remember which) for many years because the brown belt he was training took so long to pass the tests for black.

That was back in 5th-6th grades. The only time I actually use them is when I'm not seriously fighting, just deflecting. When I get serious everything I learned goes out the window while I turn into an animal and attack without a thought for defense.

On the subject of McDojos, when I started learning in 5th grade there was one kid who was red belt in Tiger Shulman's karate. He couldn't even roll properly, which shows just how "thorough" that school is.

[Reidar]

Also read that your looking for wraps for your wrist, check out ringside (http://www.ringside.com/). They have some good quality equipment for all levels of boxing and mixed martial arts gear. The catalog has a more extensive inventory than the website. The mexican-style hand wraps(I use) give a good firm fit on the wrist and knuckles and their semi-elastic, last a while.

Right now I'm boxing at a amateur level, pretty much have all the basics and foundations down. The real trick is keeping up and balancing that with conditioning, it can be a real *****. Right now I'm awaiting my in ring debut that should come some time in late Winter, I'm real stoked.

I just placed an order for the Mexican wraps. Much obliged.

When do you find out who your opponent is?

[Gannon]

you do realize that soccer moms take little timmy into McDojo, sign an expensive contract, and little timmy is a black belt in as little as a year as long as he shows up.... regardless of work in some McDojo's.


"Would you like a belt with that?"

[LOSTyears]

^ :lol: Thats a good one.

When do you find out who your opponent is?Have to get my physical along with the license, getting that this month. Then I'll get my passbook and I'll know. Luckily my coach has some pretty good connections here in N.Cali so it probably won't take too long.
It takes 10 fights(win or lose, win of course ^_^ ) to get to Golden Gloves, thats what I'm going to be shooting for next year. When my matches become frequent I'll begin a blog to keep my progress noted.

On a side note those wraps are going to be your savior, not going to work magic but their going to make hands last longer.
If those are pics of your knuckles you should take better care of em(just a suggestion). If you do decide to get serious with what your doing your hands are going to be your bread and butter.

[Reidar]

That picture was from one particular day when I fought bare-knuckle. It's not how I train all the time, but I do agree that it's reckless.

I'm also in Northern California. We might cross paths someday.

[Rurouni Saiyan]

I practice a sort of mixed-martial arts that's rooted in Tae Kwon Do. Some of those styles incorporated into our system include:

Muay Thai
Kali
Hapkido
Judo
Aikido
Silat
Karate

[Reidar]

In UFC news, I'm relieved that the WWE drama antics can be put aside (for now, at least) now that Ken Shamrock has retired from mixed martial-arts after losing to Ortiz tonight.

[Suiko Eiji]

hearing the talk about the mcdojo's, I'm in a way happy that baguazhang is not well known. The only way to learn it is to find a master and learn from him. I got lucky in that it turned out my old elementary school principal is a master in baguazhang as well as a number of other chinese martial arts.

I would say it's definately a double-edge sword; not having your art too well known. From what I've heard, and correct me if I am wrong, Chinese arts don't really document thier lineage, do they? If someone trying to get ahead of the curve popularized Baguazhang without good documentation and makes it popular, that sort of information is very, very hard to get back to the truth. I've seen it happen, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts in this thread, I could be considered one of those "ninjers", many ninja-related "arts" are rife with fraud and poor documentation. Information that was brought back (and translated extremely liberally) from Japan in the very late 1970s and very early 1980s is so rife with misinformation that gets reprinted and cited at every turn, it is extremely hard to combat and "set the record straight" finally. Pointing out a physical fraud is much, much easier than fradulent history and recordings.

And I'm not trying to play "holier than thou" or anything like that here - being a lapsed member of one of the X-Kan, we've got plenty of internal issues, especially in areas of quality control and others in documentation and historical proof. Much of the misinformation communicated over two decades ago still comes up.

So, in short, double-edged sword: lesser known arts have a defense against frauds because (most likely) only people who wish to defraud others would seek something like this out to claim to have studied or teach it but this can also be a weakness as it is harder to research individuals and sometimes the very arts that they claim to study or teach. I think the Internet is reducing this greatly, as personally, I am now in a conversation concerning some credentials of a local Judo teacher, but the threat still remains.

[MythicQilin]

Agreed
With chinese martial arts most of the material was recorded as 'songs'....poetic little anecdotes that use visual imagry and metaphor to describe stances and technique. Reason for this was that with martial arts being essential to military applications, masters, schools, and governments wanted to keep the secrets of the arts secret. Best advice I can offer in researching different styles is to check books, websites, and such for whether it was written/made by established masters, and if they cite information from other masters rather then just themselves. Usually then the book is legit.

[ben93085]

I've seen very few people who aren't "good" with a shotgun. I'm a fair shot with a pistol, as in, I can hit targets however my grouping is god-awful. Oddly enough, I prefer rifle shooting. For some reason, I can do better at slightly longer distances with higher caliber stuff.

I love pistol shooting. something about it..not sure. Yeah, the shot gun is pretty much point and shoot type of thingy. I just really like shooting them.
Rifles really dont do it for me.

[Suiko Eiji]

I love pistol shooting. something about it..not sure. Yeah, the shot gun is pretty much point and shoot type of thingy. I just really like shooting them.
Rifles really dont do it for me.


Yeah, shotguns are pretty much the origin of the "point and click" interface.