Adam's Embryo

[Dust2Dust AMEN]

ok how the hell did they reduce adam to his embryotic state. because misato stated to minimize the effect of second impact, they had to do so in end of eva. Can someone put some closure to this subject?

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

ok how the hell did they reduce adam to his embryotic state.
I present to you the least-known member of the Katsuragi expedition:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/HeWhoHostsStuff/Other/shrunkkids.jpg

And the rest, as they say, is history.

[Dust2Dust AMEN]

wow, all i can say is wow. how retarted are you, that shrunk kids, not reverse ageing

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

Oh come on, lighten up a little. Someone else with more expertise than myself will probably drop by eventually and either answer your question or refer you to a thread that's discussed it already (or you could try the Search function). In the meantime, just relax a bit.

[Magami No ER]

Easy there, that post was just a little thing called HUMOUR (I love yours Stuffz.^^)
Not that Adam's age was "reversed" anyway.
Now then, behold my glorious old thread on the subject.
;http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=167003&highlight=akira.

Please keep in mind that most things related to Dr. Katsuragi in this thread are mere speculation coupled with some fandom. His name isn't REALLY Akira, wikipedia fiends just happened upon this thread or some writing by Reichu I suppose. However, the concived process of reducing Adam is explained somewhere in this thread.

[OMF]

I've got some old heretical unpublished writings on this one. In response to your question, basically most of Adam's body was torn asunder in the 2I explosion.

[Reichu]

@StuffMan: http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/pac-lol.gif

@Dust2Dust: I have no bloody idea. It's never explained how Adam "reduces"/"retroverts"/etc. to egg (not embryonic) form. Things are further complicated by the fact that Adam also blows up in a really big way, and, along with Egg-Adam somehow being formed and surviving that explosion, Egg-Tabris (conceived not long before) also survived perfectly intact.

[NAveryW]

I've got some old heretical unpublished writings on this one. In response to your question, basically most of Adam's body was torn asunder in the 2I explosion.
And there was a little baby Adam inside him that was freed when the body asploded?

[Magami No ER]

Nah, that entity IS still Adam. Shito mechanics here. I know, a bit difficvult to picture...And btw, the common consenous is that since Adam is a Seed of Life(like Lilith), it is considered a "She". Kaworu goes call her a form of "mother" after all...with all of the proper progenitor "parts". ;;P
While a lot of basic information can be drawn from Second Impact, there are some things I (and every other fan ) wish were better explained. This is what I hope for somewhat in the upcoming movies, anything would do at this point.^^; Our perception is not always the correct reality, after all, and when it comes to NGE, that's constantly being challenged as well.

[Terra Australis]

I thought it had something to do with the Lance of Longinus.

[Reichu]

"Everything you know about the Spear of Longinus is wrong."

There is no such thing as the Spear of Longinus. It makes no sense. It is a figment of fangeeks' imaginations.

[Terra Australis]

"Everything you know about the Spear of Longinus is wrong."

There is no such thing as the Spear of Longinus. It makes no sense. It is a figment of fangeeks' imaginations.


Then what was the object sticking into Lilith?

[CanonRAP]

As Reeves puts it, "Woah...Deja vu..."

Then what was the object sticking into Lilith?

Some phallic, pronged stick that 'impregnated' Lilith.

[Reichu]

Some phallic, pronged stick that 'impregnated' Lilith.
And further proof that the withdrawal method just don't work.

[Terra Australis]

That's odd considering that they call it the Lance of Longinus (a.k.a Spear of Destiny).

[Reichu]

(I think it was just a joke.)

And damn, are those new Google ads (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=197208) ug-ly. They're breaking the forum rules, too!

[Terra Australis]

(I think it was just a joke.)

And damn, are those new Google ads (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=197208) ug-ly. They're breaking the forum rules, too!


Roger that ^_^

[Logan Payne]

And further proof that the withdrawal method just don't work.

:lol:

I wonder to whom this gigantic phallic belonged to.

[Magami No ER]

^Anno.
~~~~~

[Hekym]

Why is the embryo in Gendo's hand?

I don't get it....

[Reichu]

As a masturbatory aid.

Adam may be there for Doors of Guf kinda reasons. On Lilith, and theoretically Adam as well, the Doors open on the palms of the hands. Thus, the palms have a hokey significance in NGE, and punching holes or fusing divine embryos into them must thus be regarded as rather suspicious. It's hard to say. Better than having Gendo swallow Adam whole, though, isn't it?

[Logan Payne]

As a masturbatory aid.

Adam may be there for Doors of Guf kinda reasons. On Lilith, and theoretically Adam as well, the Doors open on the palms of the hands. Thus, the palms have a hokey significance in NGE, and punching holes or fusing divine embryos into them must thus be regarded as rather suspicious. It's hard to say. Better than having Gendo swallow Adam whole, though, isn't it?

Well I always thought it was just to serve as a reflection of himself. Where as everyone else's handshots (like shinji in the LCL sea in EoE) show a normal hand. His is a rancid embryo which can stare at him with that eye.

[Ornette]

Well I always thought it was just to serve as a reflection of himself. Where as everyone else's handshots (like shinji in the LCL sea in EoE) show a normal hand. His is a rancid embryo which can stare at him with that eye.
I don't think grafting onto his hand was arbitrary, as he stuck his hand in Rei.

On a side note, could Seele's sending of Kaworu (knowing Gendo would have to use Eva-01 to kill him) be intentionally sticking the soul of Adam back into Adam's embryo (egg)? In other words, the returning of Adam's soul to Adam's flesh will somehow thwart Gendo's plans for 3I and Seele was aware of this. Would they still send Kaworu as the 5th Children if Gendo didn't steal Adam's embryo?

[Logan Payne]

I don't think Gendo did anything else to get them that mad...or at least to that degree. Also "What Would Kaworu Do"™ if he wasn't allowed the free and easy access to EVA-02. I mean whether or not SELEE told him I always thought Tabris was going to get to Adam just like the other Angels. Or is this a severe case of n00bitis on my part.

[GadmaCross4]

I say Adam was on Gendou's hand because he needed to be merged with Adam so that he could unite with lilith through Rei. He could get it into his hand because in the same way he got his hand into Rei... That happened because Adam is a constant for life in the same way Pi is for numbers, so, he's homogeneous with all living things...
But instead of having things happen in Gendou's way, Rei refused Gendou and went for Shinji...
Basically what happened to Shinji... which is the merging of Lilith, Adam.... and Shinji controling it on Eva01 is what Gendou wanted to have it happen to him... Had it happened in Gendou's way, it'd have probably been him and Yui lying on the beach at the end.
RahXephon which is pretty much Evangelion in different terms has the same type of conflict in the ending.

P.S. (don't take me for a Rah's fan.. I'm an Eva man)

[Hekym]

>>> what they said.

Gendo essentially impregnates Rei with Adam. Because Adam is sitting inside Rei's uterus, she enters Lillith and something actually happens instead of just Lillith's soul going back to Lillith. Now it's Adam and Lillith going back to Lillith.

Nifty.

This was a very strange scene... I originally thought Gendo was molesting Rei, except he recieves no pleasure from it. And Rei clearly winces when Adam merges with her flesh. Thus, It originally seemed very gratutituous, and then later seemed to go very lightly on the same sexual connotations. odd.

His hand couldn't have been a reflection of himself; he dies instead of going into instrumentality. I think. Besides, Gendo's not meant to be an explicitly bad person (no one in EVA is), just a continuation of the " [excessive] Love is destructive" theme. He serves his purpose.

[Reichu]

Gendo essentially impregnates Rei with Adam. Because Adam is sitting inside Rei's uterus

Anatomy Lesson From Professor Clarkenstoned: No. Womb. Bad.

When Gendo's arm is devoured, you can see that he had placed it exactly where Rei's navel is.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/Rei/m26_C090_a.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/Rei/m26_C090_b.jpg

The position of the uterus relative to the navel: https://www.bcbsri.com/BCBSRIWeb/images/mayo_popup/Femalereproductivesystem.jsp

But, hey, all that means is that we're technically getting umbilical cord symbolism instead.

And Rei clearly winces when Adam merges with her flesh.
dats cuz rei is teh lezbo lol

Random musings on preggers Lilith, Adam fusing, and Giant Naked dyad back here (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5767877&highlight=preggers#post5767877). (But you may ignore the fem-Kaworu stuff if you wish.)

[Hekym]

Well, there has to be a void into which the hand goes... maybe Rei sucks it down. Otherwise, it would be protruding from Rei in some way. And she wouldn't be able to walk. Or breathe. And there's no other reason for her to wince than the sexual connotation of the womb. Maybe Anno associated the navel with the womb?

[kaos]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/Rei/m26_C090_a.jpg I just noticed that very familiar shape that the entry point is taking ... :O

Anyway... Another question is why did he start at her chest and then move down? Why not just go right for the womb? Is he just trying to cop a feel? Or does it have something to do with her heart?

[Reichu]

I just noticed that very familiar shape that the entry point is taking ... :O
Yessum. (That's once Rei starts the squeeze.)

Anyway... Another question is why did he start at her chest and then move down? Why not just go right for the womb? Is he just trying to cop a feel? Or does it have something to do with her heart?
No idea why he begins by 'splitting' her left breast, but Mr. Tines observed that Gendo shifts his hand over so that it passes through Rei's solar plexus on the way down. And you know what she keeps there, right?

[HeWhoPostsStuff]

I say you should've just posted the "wink-wink nudge-nudge" pic and been done with it. ;)

[Logan Payne]

No idea why he begins by 'splitting' her left breast, but Mr. Tines observed that Gendo shifts his hand over so that it passes through Rei's solar plexus on the way down. And you know what she keeps there, right?


I'm thinking it's the soul. Right? Just checking. Also with why Gendo started with Rei's breast. I usually chalked that up to Anno's need to get us freaked out but that's more like a default setting in my mind.

[kaos]

No idea why he begins by 'splitting' her left breast, but Mr. Tines observed that Gendo shifts his hand over so that it passes through Rei's solar plexus on the way down. And you know what she keeps there, right?Core? I dunno.

[Magami No ER]

^Soul. In NGE humans/presumably other organisms with such a body part.

[JFaulkner]

Some thoughts:

First Impact occurred some 4bn yrs ago. Life on earth appeared roughly around that time, give or take 1/2 bn yrs. Perhaps the event is symbolic of life in general appearing. Humans have not yet developed a heightened sense of consciousness associated with rational thought, self-awareness, human-specific emotions etc.

Second Impact occurred because the life source Adam was converted to an embryo. The embryonic state suggests a latent, rather than manifest force. The conscious thought of humans have suppressed the unknown, mysterious force of Adam ("unconscious" force - I will not detail what I mean fully by "unconscious" here) [Fuyutsuki also said human "wisdom"/Science caused Second Impact - as noted in RCB]. This could symbolize that consciousness (including rational thought resulting in Science - the human Intellect as opposed to irrational impulses) is dominant over the unconscious.

Before the onset of Third Impact:

Fuyutsuki:
The Fruit of Life possessed by Angels,
And the Fruit of Wisdom possessed by humans...

(The Lance penetrates the core and merges with EVA-01 into the Tree of Life)

Fuyutsuki (off screen):
Having obtained them both, EVA-01 has become like a God.
And now it has been restored to the propagule of souls... the Tree of Life.
Will it become the Ark to save humankind from the nothingness of Third Impact?
Or the demon that destroys us all?
Our future lies in the hands of Ikari's son.

EVA-01 has aspects of both the Fruit of Life and Fruit of Wisdom, i.e. in contrast to at Second Impact, when the Fruit of Wisdom (human "wisdom") dominated. A greater "balance" has been achieved between the conscious and unconscious. However, EVA-01 has been restored to the Tree of Life, and must help humankind to escape "the nothingness of Third Impact." I think there is a way to explain this, but this would go beyond the subject of this thread.

In short, Third Impact could symbolize when the human consciousness comes to a head with the unconscious factors.

[Blader5489]

And btw, the common consenous is that since Adam is a Seed of Life(like Lilith), it is considered a "She". Kaworu goes call her a form of "mother" after all...with all of the proper progenitor "parts". ;;P

Some phallic, pronged stick that 'impregnated' Lilith.

*head asplodes*

No idea why he begins by 'splitting' her left breast

That's where her heart is.

Why is he touching her heart? No idea, but it's exactly the kind of stupidly vague symbolism Anno loves.

[Reichu]

First Impact occurred some 4bn yrs ago. Life on earth appeared roughly around that time, give or take 1/2 bn yrs. Perhaps the event is symbolic of life in general appearing.
Symbolic of the Earth being "implanted' with the "Seed" Lilith, anyway.

Humans have not yet developed a heightened sense of consciousness associated with rational thought, self-awareness, human-specific emotions etc.
Eh? Humans (H. sapiens, at least) haven't developed at all.

Second Impact occurred because the life source Adam was converted to an embryo.
That's a bit of a simplification... And a more straightforward translation would be "egg" (not embryo), if that makes any difference.

Regarding Third Impact and making sense out of whatever Fuyutsuki is talking about -- bochan_bird's "propagule of souls" is actually "embryo of lives / embryo of (a) life"; and EVA-01 is being "restored" to the Tree of Life in the sense of being restored/returned to one's origin(al state). Strange -- I don't remember EVA-01 ever being or coming out of a 'Tree'. ::p

As for the other stuff -- it's all Unix to me.

[JFaulkner]

Symbolic of the Earth being "implanted' with the "Seed" Lilith, anyway.
Eh? Humans (H. sapiens, at least) haven't developed at all.

Yes, what I meant was that evolution has just begun; humans, including the modern, rational human mind has not yet developed.

a more straightforward translation would be "egg" (not embryo), if that makes any difference.

An "egg" would still indicate a latent, not manifest force.

Regarding Third Impact and making sense out of whatever Fuyutsuki is talking about -- bochan_bird's "propagule of souls" is actually "embryo of lives / embryo of (a) life"; and EVA-01 is being "restored" to the Tree of Life in the sense of being restored/returned to one's origin(al state). Strange -- I don't remember EVA-01 ever being or coming out of a 'Tree'. ::p
To put it crudely, I suggest that this "returning to one's original state" is a reference to returning to a state at the start of evolution, i.e. the rational human mind has been dissolved under primordial instincts common to everyone:

First Impact: Original state retained, no human/angel, Fruit of Wisdom/Fruit of Life seperation. If one wants a parallel myth, then taking Genesis in a non-Creationist/literal fashion, this represents "man's original union with God", i.e. state of the world when man's rational inclinations have not taken primacy yet - man is more like an animal, more in tune with "nature" etc. So although First Impact may symbolize the start of life on earth, on a deeper level, it could also symbolize this original state of man.

Second Impact: Fruit of Wisdom (possessed by humans) has separated from Fruit of Life (possessed by Angels), to a degree that the Fruit of Life is "neglected" by man (Adam converted to an object possessed by man). Again the Genesis myth is a parallel, because the symbolic rendition of the "fall of man" is none other than a separation of man with God/nature/etc. due to his developing rational mind [e.g. see Freudo-Marxist social "philosopher" Erich Fromm]. A note also that the Genesis myth is readily seen in other forms, in other such "beginning of the universe/world" myths.

Third Impact: Fruit of Wisdom and Fruit of Life are back together, restoring the original state. The rational mind has been pegged back and is more in thrall of (recognises) its more irrational counterpart.

Now this is all well and good, people may say, but what has this to do with retaining individuality? Jung, using psychoanalytical concepts he devised (collective unconscious, personal unconscious, conscious ego etc.), illuminated the meaning behind this original union/separation business (also a big theme in parts of Anthropology I believe) with respect to what it means to psychic processes. Thus, using his framework, one can relate the Fruit of Wisdom with his conscious and the Fruit of Life with his (collective) unconscious. He purported that the conscious mind should come to terms with psychic realities lying in the unconscious. So the total separation of the two (Second Impact) is dangerous. Third Impact allows one to align the two spheres, but the danger is being "stuck in the unconscious" [leading to "psychosis"]. Achieving a "proper balance" between the two results in the "realization of the Self."

In any case, I need to be much more robust in detailing this (I have here murdered the details and did not bother explaining what all the jargon really means - this would take far more time and effort), so I will leave it here for now.