why does everybody suck at Genjutsu?

[max_powers]

every genin sucks at this. The most they can do is dispel, and even that is done by only 3 (Shika, Sakura, Shino). Why? Its one of the 3 ways of fighting, so why do they not know how? Even genins from other villages could do it (remember, those guys in pyjamas in the Chunnin Exam) so why not them?

As a matter of fact, even jounins barely use it. The only ones that are shown to be good in it are Itachi, Oro, and Kurenai. Oh, and Shodaime, if ur counting the dead. WHY IS THAT? You think ninjas would prefer to use techniques that'd allow them to infiltrate and assassinate with ease, but here we are.

Let us discuss this.

[Prons]

You think ninjas would prefer to use techniques that'd allow them to infiltrate and assassinate with ease, but here we are.


Forget that, if we're talkin Ninjas we should mention they do not run around in Orange Jumpsuits.

[ryushe]

^ You sounded like Adam and Morgen just now.

[intldiamond]

actually, almost any transformation can be proly considered genjutsu (illusionary technique), thus making its use much more noticible, and explaining why naruto doesn't do it...

[max_powers]

a genjutsu specifically targets a specific person and manipulates the senses into feeling what's not there or not feeling what's there. Transformation, in that sense, doesn't qualify.

Besides, Naruto does it quite a lot. He used it against Zabusa by turning into the fuuma shuriken, against the idiot genjutsu trio by turning into his teammates, and against Kiba by turning into Akamaru... to name a few.

[abomination]

Well, with Genjutsu, not only do you have to trap them under the effects of it, but you also have to go in for the kill. If the target is smart enough, they can get out of by the feeling of pain or the touch of another, or dispelling it themselves and at that point can form a counterattack putting you, the attacker, at risk.

I think the only ones who should or actually do use Genjutsu are the ones that master it or are extremely skilled such as Itachi and Orochimaru. It probably shouldn't be used by individuals unless you are in a team so the other teammates can go in for the kill. I don't think Chuunins and Jounins are dumb enough to be affected by it. They are more experienced they so can probably recognize it and dispel it easily, so inexperienced Genins are really the only ones who it could work on easily.

So far, genjutsu has only been used to trap and interrogate people. So far the only ones to use genjutsu are Kakashi, Orochimaru, Tayuya, Itachi, Kurenai, the deceased Shodaime and various others, some yet to appear in the anime.

Out of the three jutsu styles-- Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, and Genjutsu-- Genjutsu is by far the weakest and most counterable if you can recognize if you're under it's effects.

[likenewbie]

^ You sounded like Adam and Morgen just now.

I'm a Ninja! Ninja! Ninja!

anyway, genjutsu is pretty hard, so reletivly few ppl use it. that and usually weak in close combat ninja use it, like those 3 ninja from the water country, i think water country i can't remember and don't feel like looking it up. there are lvls of the skill too, like max said changing ones self image which naruto and mostly every does. and there are changing immediate surroundings, like kurenai's human eating tree move she attempted on itachi, and the greater illusions that change a very large area of space, or itachi's super small space that only consists of the size of a brain.

make sense?

[littlesparrow51]

My ninja skillz are so good, I hugged a girl twice today before she knew what was going on @.@

SKILLZZZ

[Naster]

simple. it would be boring to watch if every ninja used some lame technique to run away or trick the heros. boring fights in an adventure manga/anime = bad ratings.

[ffl]

Genjutsu is far from being the weakest of the three styles. Rather, it would probably be considered one of the more difficult to use, depending upon the individual ninja's natural abilities. While a ninja does have the option to dispel genjutsu with their own chakra, one does have to take into consideration the strength of the one using the genjutsu. Also, if the ninja doesn't realize that they've been caught in a genjutsu, they will not attempt to dispel it. Genjutsu is just another method to get the job done, in the Naruto world, just like Taijutsu and Ninjutsu are. I would consider their effectiveness to be equal rather than one being more powerful than another. One may be more useful in a certain situation over another style, but they all are equally useful and effective overall.

[abomination]

Out of the three, Genjutsu is the least deadly on it's own, therfore making it the least useful to a shinobi on a kill mission. The most we see from genjutsu, it's being used to confuse and disorientate the enemy/target. Only the experienced with it can effectively use it to kill, such as Kurenai who is indeed a genjutsu specialist. It's only extremely effective on a retrieval mission or things like non physical interrogation and information retrieval. Almost all ANBU know it and can use it for just those purposes.

While a ninja does have the option to dispel genjutsu with their own chakra, one does have to take into consideration the strength of the one using the genjutsu. Also, if the ninja doesn't realize that they've been caught in a genjutsu, they will not attempt to dispel it.

The level of the difficulty in breaking the genjutsu depends on the genjutsu level and the level of the shinobi administering it. The more experinced the shinobi, the highler the level of genjutsu they can administer. Likewise, the weaker the shinobi, the weaker and less effective the illusion. On top of that, you're not always going to know the strength and level of intelligence of your enemy. Also, the most abundant ninja in Naruto are the Chuunin and Jounin. Most would know when they are being influenced by the illusion almost immediately and could dispel it before the enemy can take their action. So it would take a highly experienced genjutsu user to make it effective on anything other than a genin.

And that's exactly the only ones we've seen affected by genjutsu, the genin. The Chuunin and Jounin it's attempted on almost always fail, and even if they fall under it, they know what it is and have dispelled it in some way or the other.

[ffl]

That's not necessarily correct. If any ninja is not wary, even for a moment, they can be caught in a genjutsu. Kabuto was caught in a genjutsu along with Naruto and the others in the Forest of Death, when they were walking around for hours. The guys who were using it were those three Rain Ninjas, which were obviously weaker than Kabuto. Just because someone has the rank of Chuunin or Jounin doesn't mean that they aren't susceptible to genjutsu.

Also, most of the genjutsu we've seen has been performed by very skilled and experienced ninja, so we don't have too much to compare various genjutsu skills against. Remember though, Kakashi caught Zabuza in a genjutsu during their first encounter. So regardless of their rank, they can still be affected by it. While there are some genjutsu that cause damage and can kill, most seem to be there to disable opponents and disorient them. Just because the technique itself doesn't kill the opponent doesn't mean that it's not useful. It's easiest to attack an enemy who won't attack back.

[abomination]

Yes, the three rain nin were weaker than Naruto's group, but isn't that what Kabuto said ? He states that weaker ninja prefer to attack like that; use genjutsu to wear down a stronger opponent and attack when they are tired. And in fact, it was Kabuto and Sasuke that noticed that they were under the Genjutsu illusion. True, just because someone is of a certain higher rank doesn't mean that they aren't susceptible to genjutsu, it's just that they will know when it's being used on them. This is shown to be somewhat true ( well to me atleast ) while Sakura and Naruto no not that they are under Genjutsu while the stronger and smarter Sasuke and Kabuto realize it before them. Plus, the only time we've seen higher ranked shinobi fall prey to Genjutsu is when they are preoccupied or under a certain emotion. In the Forest of Death, Kabuto and even Sasuke were too preoccupied with not being seen.

That goes for Zabuza and Kakashi during their fight. Kakashi had Zabuza in an emotional state of anger and confusion. Plus I don't recall it actually being full on Genjutsu. Zabuza states " ....Is this Genjutsu ? " in a questionable manner when he see's his shadow figure besides Kakashi so it could've been Genjutsu, cause Kakashi is a master of all three jutsu styles, or it could've been another hypnosis trick caused by Kakashi and the Sharingan. I've never been positive on that so I'm on the fence with that one.

Tayuya traped Shikamaru in her Genjutsu, but he recognized it and broke his finger to get out of it before Tayuya was able to attack with a fatal attack. In fact, Shikamaru played like he was still under her Genjutsu to surprise her and caught her off guard. The main weakness of Genjutsu, Shikamaru was able to exploit and if Tayuya wasn't stronger than him he would've been able to kill her with his Shadow Neck Bind jutsu.

Genjutsu isn't a close combat type jutsu. It's mostly, as we've said, a distractionary, confusion and hypnotic, aswell as an information retrival jutsu. It's mostly good to use when at a range and when not distracted. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's uses; I'm saying it isn't good to use unless you've become a specialist in all aspects with it and not many are going to want to do that. You have to make every aspect of it perfect and pay attention to detail so the opponent doesn't know he's under an illusion. If it's not perfect, the opponent could easily recognize it. It would be better to use a jutsu to take your opponent by surprise and score a fatal blow when on a concealment and/ or kill mission instead of using something like Genjutsu that they might recognize and give your position away and end up putting you on the defensive instead of the offensive. Plus your Genjutsu might not be up to level to use against you opponent(s)and therefore not that effective and it'll end up putting you and your team possibly in a compromising confrontation.

[DarkNataku]

what about itachi's genjutsu forgot what its called.

[max_powers]

which one? If u r talking about the mangekyou one, it is purely mental/emotional damage. It can't physically hurt, but your mind won't know the difference.

[abomination]

Well, I'd call Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan overpowered if you were to ask me, but it does have it's disadvantages and it's not like anyone can use it. It is, of course, an advanced Kekkei Genkai.

So far, he's only used two techniques, Tsukuyomi, a Genjutusu and Amaterasu, a Ninjutsu. Tsukuyomi can't physically hurt you since it is a Genjutsu, but it is the most powerful one that has been seen yet. Even though there is no physical damage to the body, the pain in your mind makes that pain very real. It's actually quite similar to the the whole matrix-mind-body connection in the Matrix universe.
Amaterasu, on the other hand, is a Ninjutsu; a black flame that will burn through anything. You could even say it's an ultimate, more destructive Mangekyou Sharingan only version of Goukakyuu no Jutsu.

But it's not like those are techniques just anyone in the Naruto-verse can do. First off, you have to be of Uchiha blood. Secondly, you have to be a fully evolved Sharingan user. Thirdly, you have to be a Mangekyou Sharingan user. And using anything Mangekyou related, not only uses up a large amount of chakra, but it also seems to weigh on the users eyes.

[ffl]

Regarding Tsukiyomi, if it attacks the mind and kills via mental trauma.

Also, "hypnosis" in Naruto would be considered genjutsu since it's obviously affecting the senses of the body.

Also, what Kabuto said about weaker ninja using genjutsu, while that could be seen as being true, it is also a simplification on his part. Powerful ninja will not always attack head-on. They'd rather trap the opponent in a genjutsu and then take them out. Kurenai's genjutsu that she used against Kisame and Itachi was meant to confuse the two for a bit so that she and Asuma could find an opening to attack them. Itachi's overwhelming skill in genjutsu caused her genjutsu to totally backfire and forced her to have to break out of her own reversed genjutsu or be killed by Itachi's kunai.

Just because genjutsu doesn't kill with a gigantic fireball or a swift neck-breaking kick doesn't mean that it's any less powerful or effective than either of the other two.

Anyway, regarding the main question, it's not that they "suck" at it, but rather we just haven't been introduced to a genin from Konoha who's particularly skilled at it. Also, story-wise, it would be difficult to write a story in which a "good guy" can pretty much control how their opponents perceive the world around them. Genjutsu is an overwhelming ability, which would explain why it's seldom shown in the series. Oh... but if you're a manga reader of the weekly Japanese SJ... you should already know that Sasuke is a powerful genjutsu user now among other types of skills. So there's one for you, but he's a "bad guy" now, so I guess he doesn't really count. It will make him an overwhelming challenge for the "good guys" now though.

[Sharp-kun]

Its harder to write ;)

[abomination]

Yes, Tsukuyomi can very well and easily kill you if Itachi were to wish so, but he has yet do so . So far he has only used it for mental pain and torture ;he put Sasuke in something akin to a coma and completely incapacitated Kakashi.

Hypnosis and Genjutsu, while they may seem similar, are actually different but, yes, you could indeed say Genjustu is a more advanced form of hypnosis but with a few key differences.
Genjutsu utilizes the chakra in the targets brain and nervous system, whereas hypnosis doesn't. Genjutsu utilizes the opponents five senses and brings them under your control in order for you to manipulate them. Hypnosis utilizes no chakra at all, just the consciousness. You have no control over the individual; what they see or think or feel are just suggestions at best. So far, we've only seen that form of hypnosis through the Sharingan. Regular people may not be able to use hypnosis.

Genjustu really isn't capable of being fully utilized and used by every one. It's actually more advanced than Taijutsu or Ninjutsu, therefore making it the least useful by all ninja; it's overly complicated to use. It takes someone who is intellectually inclined to fully use it. That's another reason why most would not want to use it- Taijutsu and Ninjutsu are easier to utilize. You have to take control of the chakra in the opponents brain and nervous system and use it against them. That's why you have to either be like Kakashi -- good at all jutsu styles, or like Kurenai-- become a specialist at it, and not every shinobi is going to be like Kakashi or Kurenai. Weaker ninja who are not particularly good in nin or tai, be it Genin, Chuunin, or Jounin, would want to become advanced in Genjutsu to up their chances of succeeding as a ninja. Well, either that or just use the Sharingan, which is pretty much impossible unless you are a Uchiha.

True, normal Genjutsu will not kill on it's own. Someone advanced and specialized in Genjutsu can drive you to commit suicude, but advanced and experienced ninja will, by that time, know they are being affected by a Genjutsu illusion and attempt to cancel it.

Yes, it's not that anyone "sucks" at it, it's just that not many can actually use it efficiently, and on top of that, the story is about mostly Genin and Genin aren't really going to be be skilled at something like that unless they strive to become specialized in it. It's mainly a Chuunin and Jounin type technique. Plus, this is a shounen series. It's all about the big, fancy, flashy techniques. Seeing eveyone and their mother able to use something non-linear and less dramatic like Genjutsu would be boring to the reader.

[Atriede]

In moderation, Genjutsu is quite cool to read or watch i.e. when Itachi uses it on Kakashi. I like the fact that it is an ultra hard jutsu that not many shinobi can utilize well, meaning a ninja who utilizes it well in combat is the epitomy of cool-comes Itachi.

[blackknight]

It seems to me that the Substitution technique is an example of fairly well-used genjutsu. The user is making his opponent believe that another object (most commonly a log) is the target, thus allowing said target to be somewhere else while the attacker strikes the substitute. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but it seems more feasible than the ninja instantly changing places with a log.

[Atriede]

Maybe the substitution jutsu is an example of genjutsu but we don't have any real evidence. The user could just have easily switched places with a log, and actually that would be a simpler move to do, rather than than tricking an opponent in to attacking a log. This is becuase manipulating an enemy like that would fall under the category of genjutsu which is harder to do.
On the other hand, during the chunin exams, when Sakura is battles against those sound people to protect the unconscious Sasuke and Naruto, she uses the replication jutsu several times. Added to this, in Naruto 2, KAkashi refers to sakura being strong at Genjutsu, perhaps the substitution jutsu is evidence of her adeptness at Genjutusu putting the substitution jutsu in that category.

Who knows eh?............Kishimoto knows

[CapnTylor]

I would agree with the thread starter... I first got into Naruto back during the first volume when it seemed like a more anime-d/harry potter-ish version of old-school ninja manga with sneaky, really complicated ninja-like physical techniques and more classic ninja stuff with the cool basic genjutsu stuff.

But since forever ago, it seems like Naruto is a lot of Dragonball Z, just like PURE RAW POWER going against someone elses NEW PURER RAWER POWER.

Dont get me wrong, I still read it.

[Hellsartist]

to elaborate on some given points already, a Genjutsu user would also need to be subtle enough as to not give the victim any inclination he/she is under genjutsu. The way I see it is that genjutsu has 2 major factors, one is obviously, like ninjitsu, perfect use of chakra makes the genjutsu more effective. Two is that You don't want to show the person like "Hey! I got you in my genjutsu, watchya gonna do!" you want the victim to think he/she is 100% in control. An example I think would be when Naruto and kakashi and whoever were fighting the Itachi substitution clone (the same time team Gai was fighting the Kisame sub. clone) Itachi had trapped naruto in a Genjutsu that seemed perfectly normal, like it had a high possibility of happening, only because Kakashi intefered did it break.

To sum up there are 2 types of genjutsu, WITH obvious exceptions mind. one being the mangagkyou sharingan genjutsu Itachi used on Sasuke and kakashi, being that both victims new they were in a genjutsu but the raw power of the technique left them helpless. and two being the kind Itachi used on Naruto that relied on very subtle and non-obvious changes to keep him pre-occuppied or "immobile".

I'm done ^ ^

[max_powers]

wel, for those interested in genjutsu, check out the recent filler episodes 202-204. Although it gets kind of repetitive, its still genjutsu nonetheless. It has a short Gai/Lee spar which will entertain you for 3 seconds, as well as a scene where Shino looks all cool in his calm/cool way.

Naruto sucks at anything to do with genjutsu... as usual...