How does Japan really view anime fans?

[DazzleKitty]

I've read from various places about this, and each place always gives a different answer.

People say that a lot of anime is for older viewers, but then others said that mainly kids watch it (since the rating system over there is different from ours). I find it hard to believe that mainly kids watch it due to the abundance of adult doujinshi. So, which is true?

Also, we all know that otaku don't have good reputations in Japan. Do they view all anime collectors as otaku, or just some who have taken their obssession to the extreme? Can a person in Japan have an enormous collection of anime/manga, and still be viewed as 'normal'? Would it be bad for a foreigner to tell a Japanese person they are fond of anime?
Also, are anime/manga-only stores in Japan strictly otaku territory, or do non-otaku go in as well?
One more thing. I heard that recently the amount of female otaku (aren't they called otome?) are increasing in Japan. Is that also true?

Sorry for all these weird questions. I've been curious about it lately. Thanks in advance to whoever comments.

[KuroiKenshi]

An acquaintance of mine who was an economics student at Kyoto University (ie headed for big things) once told me that most of the people he knew from school and many young adults watched anime and just didnt tell anyone about it. There are some anime that all japanese people know and many watch weekly, and liking those isnt necessarily considered an otaku thing to do. The anime that come on in the early hours of the morning (2 oclock or so) are much less mainstream, and if you are watching those, either you are an out-of-the-closet otaku or someone hiding it. people who draw adult doujinshi are, to put it lightly, are probably on the otaku side, and shouldnt really be seen as an accurate barometer of japanese society in general.

its not necessarily a bad thing to tell japanese people that you like anime, so long as youre not the socially inept sort. its not like people will automatically hate you (and anyway, being a foreigner you arent necessarily subjected to the same standards as japanese people are), they just may not share your like of anime and/or not want to talk about it in public.

if youre at the point where it might come up in conversation (ie, i expect that you arent just going to stop some random japanese person on the street and say "i love teh animes!!11eleven"), i assume that you can find other things to talk about too. go ahead, mention it if you want, and if its not something that is conducive to conversation, talk about something else (as you would with anyone of any nationality).

i dont really frequent any anime stores, so i cant really answer about that. the only ones ive been in have been in akihabara, and the other customers were either foreigners or otaku-types. i dont know what its like outside of akihabara.

apparently ikebukuro is the haven for female otaku types, but living far, far away from tokyo i dont really know. maybe one of the female posters here can fill you in more about that.

[Mika-chan]

I've read from various places about this, and each place always gives a different answer.

People say that a lot of anime is for older viewers, but then others said that mainly kids watch it (since the rating system over there is different from ours). I find it hard to believe that mainly kids watch it due to the abundance of adult doujinshi. So, which is true?


The majority of anime is aimed at kids and teens. While some anime airs after midnight and it`s usually moe, harem, mecha, and series based off manga aimed at adults. Some exceptions are Paradise Kiss, NANA, and Ouran High School Host which I think were aimed more at teen girls (but these manga series have an adult female fanbase too though). . I think adults watch anime as casual viewers like it`s just something they`re used to seeing so it`s not a big deal. It`s more common to find adults reading manga than watching anime.


Also, we all know that otaku don't have good reputations in Japan. Do they view all anime collectors as otaku, or just some who have taken their obssession to the extreme? Can a person in Japan have an enormous collection of anime/manga, and still be viewed as 'normal'? Would it be bad for a foreigner to tell a Japanese person they are fond of anime?


From my experience, anime collectors are considered otaku and are often mocked for it. Sure there was "otaku sympathy" when Densha Otoko was the rage a year ago, but I`ve seen tons of TV shows/documentaries about how "odd" otaku are.


Also, are anime/manga-only stores in Japan strictly otaku territory, or do non-otaku go in as well?


Again I`m speaking from what I`ve seen. Anime stores do tend to have more otaku and foreign people in them. As I`ve said before, manga is the thing here. And you can buy manga everywhere (even 7-11 will have the latest copy of Naruto). So most people just seem buy manga on the go (I tend to buy manga at bookstores rather than anime stores too...more convenient). Anime is sold at most media stores like HMV. So there`s no real need to go to an anime store unless you plan on buying some other merchandise.


One more thing. I heard that recently the amount of female otaku (aren't they called otome?) are increasing in Japan. Is that also true?

Sorry for all these weird questions. I've been curious about it lately. Thanks in advance to whoever comments.


In Ikebukuro there is an area called "Otome Road" which is between the Totoya Showcase Bldg. and Sunshine City (the "cool" spots in Ikebukuro). Female otaku are a bit more discreet than male otaku. Male otaku are usually know for carrying huge backpacks, wearing unflattering clothes, and have that all around "geekiness" to them. Women on the other hand look like any other chick walking around. Rather than having a backpack, they carrying their anime in suitcases. Now that may sound more bizarre than a backpack, but many "stylish" women (like the manba, decora, loli-goth, etc.) carry suitcases packed with make-up, clothes, etc. so the otaku women can blend in better.

I haven`t been through all of Otome Road yet, but I recently watched a TV show about what goes on in Otome Rd. . Where as Akiba have maid cafes, Otome Rd. Has maid cafes (but the female maid costumes are much more demure), a butler cafe, and a BL . The butlers appear to be older men (maybe 21-35...they don`t make the men have a set age like some maid cafes in Akiba have) and the BL (Boy`s Love) cafe is ran by women dressed the kind of bishonen you would probably see in BL manga (It`s more common to refer to yaoi/shonen-ai manga as BL manga in Japan).

Like Akiba, there is an Animate in Ikebukuro and there are tons of women in there. Many of the women are on the shoujo/BL manga floor. Last weekend, I went to go buy some screentones (which are on the shoujo/BL floor) and I was in line for 20 minutes, which never happened to me when I went to the Akiba Animate.

Animate is the biggest store there, but there are also stores dedicated to just BL manga and merchandise too.

[Ironfrost]

The butlers appear to be older men (maybe 21-35...they don`t make the men have a set age like some maid cafes in Akiba have)


I must say, that's an interesting definition of "older men" you have there... :p

[Mika-chan]

I must say, that's an interesting definition of "older men" you have there... :p

LOL I I mean in terms that at some maid cafes the women have to say they`re 17-years-old regardless of what age they are. At the butler cafe I think it`s okay from them to give their real age if they`re asked too. From the looking at the guys on the TV show, they definitely didn`t look like youngbucks. :P

By the waya link to the show I was talking about is here (http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/adomachi/060610/index.html). It`s a show that goes to different places in Japan and ranks the attractions, restaurants, etc. They decided to rank the top 30 things to do in Otome Rd. for this episode.

[Stelok]

Interesting. I've had known that the number of Female otaku is scarce in Japan, although there are lots of female manga-ka there. I wonder if the female manga-ka are also otaku? I heard CLAMP was originally a group of doujinshi artists.



People say that a lot of anime is for older viewers, but then others said that mainly kids watch it (since the rating system over there is different from ours). I find it hard to believe that mainly kids watch it due to the abundance of adult doujinshi. So, which is true?.

The majority of the people in Japan are under the misconception that anime is for cartoons. Uncensored anime, aimed at the older adult audience, especially otaku audience is aired on TV in the early morning from 1:00 am to 5:00 am (where all kids are sleeping). If I recall correctly, censored versions of the same anime such as Girls Bravo, Gun X Sword, etc , may be broadcasted in the late evening.

[DazzleKitty]

Wow, I got some really informative responses. Thanks everyone.

I think it's quite sad that most anime collectors are viewed as 'losers' there, but I guess some of the otaku there are more 'extreme' with their interests.

Ah, when I go to Japan someday, I trip to Ikebukuro is a must. I think I will enjoy that place quite a bit.
I wish manga could be as popular here as it is there. Going into a quick shop and being able to purchase it must be very nice.

[m_fugue]

Can a person in Japan have an enormous collection of anime/manga, and still be viewed as 'normal'?
Manga, yes. Anime, no.

[JuraBasilElden]

I sure learned that the hard way back in '97.

[greg]

So Otome Rd. is the stretch starting from Animate, going on to K-Books locations?

[Samurai Drifter]

Anime, for the most part, is viewed as either for otaku, or children. The highest-grossing film in Japanese history, however, was Spirited Away. Also, when I went, there were a ton of new anime pachinko games coming out.

It may be viewed as weird and for otaku there, but it's sure a hell of a lot more popular than it is in the U.S. When you have an entire district devoted to anime, manga, and dating-sim/visual novel games (Akihabara, which is probably the coolest place I've been in the world), you know you have a lot of fans. Akihabara also has a lot of stands selling various electronic gadgets, which used to be the centerpoint of it, but now it's shifted.

Manga is widely accepted and extremely popular there. When I went to Japan, all of the newstands in the subway stations had large selections of manga. On every train I rode there was at least one person (usually a salaryman, as far as I could tell) reading manga. Comiket draws 250,000 people when it runs every 6 months.

[Dark_Shiki]

I tend to get into manga easier than I do anime, because of my pickyness of genres, I usually go for cyberpunk or fantasy/humor types. I have a small collection of videos(which I'll either sell or trade in for dvds at some point), but a larger collection of manga. I started collection in my teens.

Started with Ghost in the Shell & You're Under Arrest, now have Battle Angel, Chobits, and I'm currently collecting scantilations of Elfen Lied, which has hooked me.

The only dvd I have is Final Fantasy VII: AC.

[Ageha]

....Manga is widely accepted and extremely popular there. When I went to Japan, all of the newstands in the subway stations had large selections of manga. On every train I rode there was at least one person (usually a salaryman, as far as I could tell) reading manga....

Yeah, but did you ever look over the shoulders of those salarymen to see exactly what it is they're reading? It's almost certainly not the same stuff being read or what is popular for anime fans in the U.S. ;p And I'm not sure I'd call the subway station manga selection "large" (but then again, I prefer shoujo or josei manga), but I suppose in comparison to the U.S. it would be. You're far better off going to a bookstore here than waiting around for something to show up on newstands (unless you mean the zasshi...even then it's more likely to be the zasshi geared toward older boys and salarymen).

[greg]

Yeah, but did you ever look over the shoulders of those salarymen to see exactly what it is they're reading? It's almost certainly not the same stuff being read or what is popular for anime fans in the U.S. ;p
Yeah, it's quite often rape manga, and they have no shame whatsoever reading this in the presence of women and children. Every time I see this on a Japanese train/subway/whatever, I just want to toss these pervs off at the next stop.

I tend to get into manga easier than I do anime, .
So are you from Japan? That's what this topic is about.

[Animematt55]

I haven`t been through all of Otome Road yet, but I recently watched a TV show about what goes on in Otome Rd. . Where as Akiba have maid cafes, Otome Rd. Has maid cafes (but the female maid costumes are much more demure), a butler cafe, and a BL . The butlers appear to be older men (maybe 21-35...they don`t make the men have a set age like some maid cafes in Akiba have) and the BL (Boy`s Love) cafe is ran by women dressed the kind of bishonen you would probably see in BL manga (It`s more common to refer to yaoi/shonen-ai manga as BL manga in Japan).

Like Akiba, there is an Animate in Ikebukuro and there are tons of women in there. Many of the women are on the shoujo/BL manga floor. Last weekend, I went to go buy some screentones (which are on the shoujo/BL floor) and I was in line for 20 minutes, which never happened to me when I went to the Akiba Animate.

Animate is the biggest store there, but there are also stores dedicated to just BL manga and merchandise too.
Thats kinda scary....why are women always so scary?
So in the BL area...women dress up as male characters?


What about shoujo-ai? I know a lot of it is geared towards women. Most of the shoujo-ai manga that i know of was created by women.

[Samurai Drifter]

Yeah, but did you ever look over the shoulders of those salarymen to see exactly what it is they're reading? It's almost certainly not the same stuff being read or what is popular for anime fans in the U.S. ;p
Yeah... I noticed that. But it still is manga, nonetheless.


And I'm not sure I'd call the subway station manga selection "large" (but then again, I prefer shoujo or josei manga), but I suppose in comparison to the U.S. it would be.
Most definitely. The only places you can get manga in the U.S. are the big book stores, like Borders, Barnes and Noble and their affiliates, and comic book stores. I did find a couple of really old volumes of Akira mixed in with the D&D handbooks from the 70's in a local bookstore, but you get the idea.

To a westerner like me, it was like "O_O Holy crap, there's manga everywhere."

[Mika-chan]

Thats kinda scary....why are women always so scary?
So in the BL area...women dress up as male characters?


What about shoujo-ai? I know a lot of it is geared towards women. Most of the shoujo-ai manga that i know of was created by women.

In the BL cafe (found a link it`s named B;Lily rose (http://www.b-lilyrose.com/) ) the staff dress up as men:
http://www.b-lilyrose.com/AYATO1.jpg

(LOL they look a lot like the host that work in Shinjuku).

I don`t know about shoujo-ai. There seems to be more focus in men then women. I didn`t see any shoujo-ai on the "women`s" floor when I was in Animate (but I wasn`t paying too much attention though).

[Mika-chan]

So Otome Rd. is the stretch starting from Animate, going on to K-Books locations?

I think so. But the TV show added Tokyo Hands into that area because of that place when you pay to play with cats ("Nekobukuro"). So I guess it would start from Tokyo Hands to K-Books. The TV show provided maps, but they maps are pretty vague, small and it`s hard to read the names because the text and streets are all in white (I hate Japanese maps sometimes). :P

[Dark_Shiki]

So are you from Japan? That's what this topic is about.

No, I live in the U.S., I was just commenting before on how manga is easier to get into then the anime. I find that I end up sifting through alot of stuff before I get to what I really like in anime.

But I definite;y want to visit there one day. I want to travel to different countries one day to see what else is out there. Hopefully, I'll be able to do this with a good friend or significant other at one point in my life.~Angela

[Animematt55]

In the BL cafe (found a link it`s named B;Lily rose (http://www.b-lilyrose.com/) ) the staff dress up as men:
http://www.b-lilyrose.com/AYATO1.jpg

(LOL they look a lot like the host that work in Shinjuku).

I don`t know about shoujo-ai. There seems to be more focus in men then women. I didn`t see any shoujo-ai on the "women`s" floor when I was in Animate (but I wasn`t paying too much attention though).
SO thats a chick? hehe, not bad. Gotta love a girl in a tie.

[DazzleKitty]

Thats kinda scary....why are women always so scary?
So in the BL area...women dress up as male characters?

I really don't see what's so scary about it. I've seen far worse, like obese guys dressing up in Sailor Moon outfits. At least the girls look good in their outfits. Heh, I guess you were wrong about shoujo-ai being popular in Japan among women, eh? It only makes sense that most would go for the BL floor. Don't be so surprised.


I heard a story from this girl in Japan recently. She went into an anime shop and there were four men cosplaying as the four main characters of Weiss Kreuz (a bishounen anime). So, it's not only women that dress that way.
I'd love to be able to vist the BL floor of one of those anime shops. It would be a blast.

[Danzoh Katoh]

I've seen far worse, like obese guys dressing up in Sailor Moon outfits. At least the girls look good in their outfits.

Hear! Hear!

[Animematt55]

I really don't see what's so scary about it.
I ment more the shopping thing....Women are always scary when they shop. Also, that long of wait in a manga store? (and anime merchandise?) thats crazy. But those BL cafes, if they are girls that dress as male characters iwould go to one. I love girl's dressing like that!

[Mika-chan]

I ment more the shopping thing....Women are always scary when they shop. Also, that long of wait in a manga store? (and anime merchandise?) thats crazy. But those BL cafes, if they are girls that dress as male characters iwould go to one. I love girl's dressing like that!

LOL you should see Japanese women during New Year`s. That`s when most shops have "fukubukuro" (a bag loaded with goodies that you pay a set price for). I`ve seen documentaries on it (LOL I`m too scared to partake in the shopping...) and the women are so aggressive NFL players would be nervous about going after them. I`ll be avoiding Animate at this time of year. ^_^

[cris]

Mystery Bags suck, but yeah....it's also usually the オバタリアン type of woman, or housewives that goes freaking crazy during sales.

Not just clothes but supermarkets...usualy in Japan, a Guy that stamps "% off stickers" come out around evening (to sell the leftover stuff made in the morning)....many of you probably seen it in manga's, but it is really like that in real life (maybe not all, but the one I goto when I'm at Japan....I don't exactly goto various super markets when I'm in Japan =-P). Soon as that guy comes out, they will freaking beat your *** to save 20% on a 500yen sidedish

[Jun_Inohara]

Mystery Bags suck, but yeah....it's also usually the オバタリアン type of woman, or housewives that goes freaking crazy during sales.

Not just clothes but supermarkets...usualy in Japan, a Guy that stamps "% off stickers" come out around evening (to sell the leftover stuff made in the morning)....many of you probably seen it in manga's, but it is really like that in real life (maybe not all, but the one I goto when I'm at Japan....I don't exactly goto various super markets when I'm in Japan =-P). Soon as that guy comes out, they will freaking beat your *** to save 20% on a 500yen sidedish

When YOU'RE paying 500 yen for a tiny side dish every day, you'd be pretty psyched about getting ANYTHING off, trust me. God knows I appreciate seeing that little sticker on things like milk or orange juice, for sure! :P

[fujyoshi]

In Ikebukuro there is an area called "Otome Road" which is between the Totoya Showcase Bldg. and Sunshine City (the "cool" spots in Ikebukuro). Female otaku are a bit more discreet than male otaku. Male otaku are usually know for carrying huge backpacks, wearing unflattering clothes, and have that all around "geekiness" to them. Women on the other hand look like any other chick walking around. Rather than having a backpack, they carrying their anime in suitcases. Now that may sound more bizarre than a backpack, but many "stylish" women (like the manba, decora, loli-goth, etc.) carry suitcases packed with make-up, clothes, etc. so the otaku women can blend in better.

I haven`t been through all of Otome Road yet, but I recently watched a TV show about what goes on in Otome Rd. . Where as Akiba have maid cafes, Otome Rd. Has maid cafes (but the female maid costumes are much more demure), a butler cafe, and a BL . The butlers appear to be older men (maybe 21-35...they don`t make the men have a set age like some maid cafes in Akiba have) and the BL (Boy`s Love) cafe is ran by women dressed the kind of bishonen you would probably see in BL manga (It`s more common to refer to yaoi/shonen-ai manga as BL manga in Japan).

Like Akiba, there is an Animate in Ikebukuro and there are tons of women in there. Many of the women are on the shoujo/BL manga floor. Last weekend, I went to go buy some screentones (which are on the shoujo/BL floor) and I was in line for 20 minutes, which never happened to me when I went to the Akiba Animate.

Animate is the biggest store there, but there are also stores dedicated to just BL manga and merchandise too.

I knew it so that also means that the word "moe" goes both ways too right. Also from what I heard a female otaku is called a fujyoshi 0_0

Wahahaha!! I'ma fujyoshi!!