"Diamonds Aren't Forever"

[Fobb]

But are they worth the blood of many people?

READ ONE (http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc694a.html)

READ TWO (http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc736a.html)

Maybe it is "old news" but it's news thats a lot more important than "homicidal escalators" and "Killer african bees"

What if the Hot Boyz knew that from those early days up until now, the profits from the diamond industry were and continue to be one of the most important factors in upholding the region's racist policies and white minority rule?

What if Jermaine Dupri knew about the conditions that miners past and present endured?

What if Baby knew that diamonds are not naturally rare?


What if they knew? Would they even care?

[Suiko Eiji]

But are they worth the blood of many people?

READ ONE (http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc694a.html)

READ TWO (http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc736a.html)

Maybe it is "old news" but it's news thats a lot more important than "homicidal escalators" and "Killer african bees"

I disagree. This is an equally poor example of "news". Isn't "news" supposed to be current? Suggesting the evils of the diamond industry and their support of past horrors such as Apartheid or support in countries/territories that technically do not exist any more? Makes for a great history topic, but hardly news. To blame the exisiting ills of Africa on the diamond trade in itself is an extremely narrow view of the situations. It's even more narrow to say that if people all over the world stopped buying diamonds that all of these problems would automatically vanish.

What if they knew? Would they even care?

Probably not. If not diamonds, it'd probably be some sort of other precious stone that would be all the rage then what? Are we going to blame all of the social ills of what ever area is mined for those stones?

[Fobb]

I refer to it as news not in the sense of "current events" but in the sense of "eye opening events". It was news to me. I didn't know about this before. And I'm not saying ridding Africa of the diamond industry will make it better. Actually it probably would, if you read about the government in with the diamond industry, but in the worst case scenario, it would at least rid them of one of their ailments.

But more on the topic: If you read through it all, you notice that it's also about advertising the way that we live. They pass it off as being a rare substance, when in fact it isn't. There were a lot of things in there that got me mad.


And I wouldn't blame the ill outcome of a substance if it didn't have one.

[Suiko Eiji]

And I'm not saying ridding Africa of the diamond industry will make it better. Actually it probably would, if you read about the government in with the diamond industry, but in the worst case scenario, it would at least rid them of one of their ailments.

Africa getting rid of crack-pot dictators and getting succeeding governments out of economics is a much better step. Africa has resources that are in demand, why prohibit them from using them?

Also, I felt the authors of the articles were more at intellectual fault than you were.

But more on the topic: If you read through it all, you notice that it's also about advertising the way that we live. They pass it off as being a rare substance, when in fact it isn't. There were a lot of things in there that got me mad.

It's rare in that there is a relatively finite amount and that it holds a level of value compared with other stones.

And I wouldn't blame the ill outcome of a substance if it didn't have one.

The second article did a better job concerning the issue of "blood diamonds", diamonds which are stolen and sold to on and off blackmarkets to finance local militias and what not. The first article tries to paint all of the woes on Africa due to diamond indsutries and colonialism ignoring the fact that Africa has been at war with itself beginning at the tribal stages of association for centuries, maybe even millenia. Colonialism only brought it upon the world stage. As senseless as it may seem, many of these conflicts are rooted in quests for power and whether they are killing someone for diamonds or cattle, it probably would have happened over something with economic value.

[Fobb]

How am I and the article writers at fault?

(PS: To the mods, this isn't a flame thread)

We know there are a lot more problems in Africa than just the diamond industry, but you can't expect me to bring up all the problems in one post. Take it one step at a time.

[Suiko Eiji]

How am I and the article writers at fault?

(PS: To the mods, this isn't a flame thread)

We know there are a lot more problems in Africa than just the diamond industry, but you can't expect me to bring up all the problems in one post. Take it one step at a time.


I do not see the diamond industry itself as an issue of Africa's woes. If anything, I see the diamond industry, along with its numerous other natural resources as a source of strength to pull themselves out of the horrible poverty these countries are in.

This is my first step. You're right, there are far too many problems to cite in just one post.

[Fobb]

Once diamonds were discovered, the South African government instituted policies designed to force black Africans off their land and into the diamond mines to work in conditions similar to slavery. This was accomplished by the government creating new taxes on virtually everything from land to pets. In order to get money to pay the taxes black Africans had no choice but to work in the mines. For all their moral talk foreign investors, mainly in America and Europe, played a key role in upholding the South African government and economy, and similar ones throughout southern Africa.

Married black miners are forced to stay in separate facilities from their spouses. If a black, female worker gets pregnant she is required to leave her job for 3 months and return without her child if she wishes to keep her job. White workers are never subject to these policies. If a white miner has a family, they are immediately given family housing.

Ellaborate.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Ellaborate.


Gorilla Funk is a moron. Blameing the pushing off indigenous people on the modern diamond industry when it started in the 17th century when the Afrikaner's began settleing. That is like saying that the Native American woes of the past 450 years are soley to blame on Casinoes.

[Fobb]

A mod flaming.

Ironic.

[Bernard_Monsha]

A mod flaming.

Ironic.

Ha, anyone who says something happens in a country were pluristic reasons are easily found is not only a moron they are also lazy. Saying someone is flameing when you have no counterpoint could be considered flameing or simply a hissy fit.

[Fobb]

And if you just so happened to read back on the other posts, you would also realize I didn't blame all the problems of Africa on the Diamond industry.

And just because the diamond industry started back in that time period doesn't mean someone isn't going to take advantage of it.

[master terrence]

Ya, to be honest, I'm sure diamonds caused quite a problem to Africans, but they are just one aspect. I really wouldn't look at it like it were the sole demise of Africans. In the end it was just a corrupt gov't that caused these issues, don't you think?


--still, it is very dumb of rappers to wear so many diamonds, when in fact africans have to mine them in dangerous conditions.

[Fobb]

We know there are a lot more problems in Africa than just the diamond industry, but you can't expect me to bring up all the problems in one post. Take it one step at a time.

Just bringing it up so you can see what was going on before.

[master terrence]

But the diamond industry was supported by the gov't, so I still hold my stance.





I realize that the revolutionary forces in Sierra Leone that came to being after the civil war are fighting for diamonds so that they can buy... well everything you need to kill the opposition. This is the problem, stopping the trade of diamonds isn't going to end violence. I think stoping the trade of diamonds is just one of the manny ways to try and neutralize the weapon spending.

[Fobb]

Someone still has to take advantage of a corrupt government in order for it to be hurtful to the people.

[master terrence]

Someone still has to take advantage of a corrupt government in order for it to be hurtful to the people.


DeBeers are bastards, but they've been bastards for a long time. Just don't buy those diamonds :D this doesn't solve the problem does it.

[Fobb]

I HAVE ALREADY STATED: I KNOW THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY ISN'T THE SOLE AILMENT OF THE AFRICAN PEOPLE

[Fobb]

DeBeers are bastards, but they've been bastards for a long time. Just don't buy those diamonds :D this doesn't solve the problem does it.
That would be a start. But open mindedness has to start somewhere, hence the thread.

[HELLFISH88]

I'm sick of all the bleeding hearts *****ing about Africa. "OMG we need to go help those poor people in Africa, why dosn't anybody ever care about them"

We tried to help those ****ing Morons. We brought them food and they shot at us. We try to bring in econemy to some of their more civilized nations and they hijak and attack cruise ships.

those people are on their own.

Look at what happend to south Africa. excellent example.

*note: not intended to be racist to African americans or Africans in general*

[Fobb]

Maybe that's giving a sign.

And instead of all that, this would probably be a better idea: STOP BEING A WORLD POLICE AND FIX WHAT'S HAPPENING AT HOME FIRST.

[master terrence]

I HAVE ALREADY STATED: I KNOW THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY ISN'T THE SOLE AILMENT OF THE AFRICAN PEOPLE

but it is economical driving force for one small countries demise in Africa :lol:. Consumers choice just doesn't feel like the way to go. Educate all the poeple you want, some *** hole in downtown is just going to buy them and sell'em after the consumers choice rally dies down.

[Fobb]

Well I know what I'm going to do. I'll do my own boycott, and through that, maybe I'll spurr a few more people to do the same.

And whatever you say, it won't hurt the people there anymore than it has. The only reason they're forced to take on that labor is because of the corrupt gov't being controlled by DeBeers

[Haro!]

I've known this for years, the dirtiness of diamonds and the diamond industry. The same happens with gold and just about anything else you buy. Someone somewhere was exploited. Its not right but its the world we live in. Diamonds however are one of the said products I wouldn't buy, because they are far from being a necessity to me. Oh and I've also told every girl I've known to never expect me to buy diamonds for them for said reason (and it saves me lots of moeny ^_^ ). Now the Banana Republic shirts I own were made by slave labor in (let me check) Nepal, but that's okay.

[HELLFISH88]

Maybe that's giving a sign.

And instead of all that, this would probably be a better idea: STOP BEING A WORLD POLICE AND FIX WHAT'S HAPPENING AT HOME FIRST.



While i do agree there are some Domestic things that need to be handled, We have the power which meens we have the responsibility.

[Suiko Eiji]

I HAVE ALREADY STATED: I KNOW THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY ISN'T THE SOLE AILMENT OF THE AFRICAN PEOPLE

Alright, let's fix Africa's problems:

1 - Crush every two bit dictatorship and establish stable, free governments.

2 - Civil Wars on BS things such as tribalism and millenia old fued must stop.

3 - Stable governments lead to stable and then prosperous economies.

4 - Remove government from the economy; allow foreign enterprise and turnkey operations to act independently.

5 - Train and educate workers to be able to continue the industries and diversify the markets.

6 - All aid coming from the first world must be given on the condition of expecting results. Any private enterprise would never continue to bury cash into a fruitless venture, lest it can survive total failure.

7 - The second that any African nation lapses on any of these all foreign aid, especially from the First World, should be cut.

Horrors such as apartheid, reminence of colonialism, and acting as a proxy battlefield for the Hot Battles of the Cold War might have been excusable in the very early 1960s when many of these nations first became fully autonomous but to continue this course for forty years after that, one must wonder if this really is a successful venture.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I've known this for years, the dirtiness of diamonds and the diamond industry. The same happens with gold and just about anything else you buy. Someone somewhere was exploited. Its not right but its the world we live in. Diamonds however are one of the said products I wouldn't buy, because they are far from being a necessity to me. Oh and I've also told every girl I've known to never expect me to buy diamonds for them for said reason (and it saves me lots of moeny ^_^ ). Now the Banana Republic shirts I own were made by slave labor in (let me check) Nepal, but that's okay.


DeBeers has their hands in a lot of crap, to the point they bullied Russia into letting them buy their diamonds so as not to flood the market. I am still waiting for someone to drop the J bomb since a large majority of the Diamond merchants are of one particular ethnicity. That is one of the main arguments i hear against the diamond industry.

I don't particurally care about any people in Crapstonia who work for 3 cents an week. My only regret is they took away a job from someone here. There is a sort of perverse pleasure on being on the top of the food chain and thinking about how some poor smuck worked his little heart out picking and wrapping the fruit of the month I get. They even put a little signed thank you card which I throw away with half of the fruit after I think of their filthy grubby hands touching it.

[HSaabedra]

Why bother with a precious stone that has no real intrinsic value except that which is set by a man. It is not a practical way of creating or safeguarding wealth since the variable of excess quantity still exists. Same with oil, the variable is still there. Information is still more valuable than any other commodity.

[Neo0tak0n]

Africa doesn't need the white man's government and it doesn't need to get rid of "BS things such as tribalism"

[Reinas]

I'm sick of all the bleeding hearts *****ing about Africa. "OMG we need to go help those poor people in Africa, why dosn't anybody ever care about them"

We tried to help those ****ing Morons. We brought them food and they shot at us. We try to bring in econemy to some of their more civilized nations and they hijak and attack cruise ships.

those people are on their own.

Look at what happend to south Africa. excellent example.

*note: not intended to be racist to African americans or Africans in general*

Because somehow, directly or indirectly, we're responsible for their woes?


I do believe that Africa needs some assistance but it doesn't mean that the wealthier countries are to play World Police and bring down every government that they don't agree with.

However, I'm glad I have what I have such as the clothes, food and other material things I may not need. Since I can't expect to directly help Africa or fix their problems immeadiately, the least I can do is appreciate what they have to do to make a living.

[Suiko Eiji]

Africa doesn't need the white man's government and it doesn't need to get rid of "BS things such as tribalism"

Ironically, all of the African immigrants I've met would disagree with you. Fine by me either way; see Step 7.

[Fobb]

DeBeers has their hands in a lot of crap, to the point they bullied Russia into letting them buy their diamonds so as not to flood the market. I am still waiting for someone to drop the J bomb since a large majority of the Diamond merchants are of one particular ethnicity. That is one of the main arguments i hear against the diamond industry.

I don't particurally care about any people in Crapstonia who work for 3 cents an week. My only regret is they took away a job from someone here. There is a sort of perverse pleasure on being on the top of the food chain and thinking about how some poor smuck worked his little heart out picking and wrapping the fruit of the month I get. They even put a little signed thank you card which I throw away with half of the fruit after I think of their filthy grubby hands touching it.
Just another reason to boycott the goods.

And whatever anyone here says, the problems of mostly any country do find it's way back to the WORLD POLICE. Of course they have the power, and damn right they have the responsibility, but right now it seems they aren't "mature" enough to handle the responsibility.

[master terrence]

Just another reason to boycott the goods.




We can't boycott something we never buy :blink:

[Fobb]

Some people do. And at least now you know not to, when you become a multiplatinum rapper and or rocker.

[master terrence]

Maybe I'll write an anniversary article or a record breaking article (such as "***hundreth person" died today) about Sierra Leon and hope it gets published.

The power of journalism ;) hell, maybe I'll put one in the school newspaper.

[Fobb]

Even if it didn't put it on your internet blog. I'LL READ IT.

Remember me when you get famous!

[Ikari Warrior]

Ha, anyone who says something happens in a country were pluristic reasons are easily found is not only a moron they are also lazy. Saying someone is flameing when you have no counterpoint could be considered flameing or simply a hissy fit.

damn, burn.

I don't particurally care about any people in Crapstonia who work for 3 cents an week. My only regret is they took away a job from someone here. There is a sort of perverse pleasure on being on the top of the food chain and thinking about how some poor smuck worked his little heart out picking and wrapping the fruit of the month I get. They even put a little signed thank you card which I throw away with half of the fruit after I think of their filthy grubby hands touching it.

DAMN! Your grammar may not be 100% right all the time, BM, but damn, your words are sheer power.

It seems the only reason to make a thread anymore is to read Bernard's reply that makes too much sense for anyone to counter it.

It was my understanding that diamonds are so expensive over here because the jewelry stores that sell them don't buy from diamonds mined in Africa. Also, let's say, hypothetically, the diamond miners get their fair share...wouldn't that just make diamonds more expensive? Sounds to me like these countries need to internally change before we consider boycotting diamonds. The only way people would do that is if diamonds were more expensive. And the people who buy diamonds now won't boycott them because they're the persons who don't give half a **** about the miners anyway.

[master terrence]

And the people who buy diamonds now won't boycott them because they're the persons who don't give half a **** about the miners anyway.


Yup. I find it incredibly hard to think that Ludacris or the Hiltons would stop buying diamonds. I do think you can track the diamonds back to DeBeers at the retailer, they come with all this certification crap. But then again, how many diamonds actually come from there into the America market.

[Suiko Eiji]

Shadow Cast, diamond's prices are inflated because they are a cartel industry, much like the current state of affairs with OPEC and oil petroleum. The majority of the world's diamonds on the market do come from Africa, as well as Russia. In the 1970s the Soviet Union was looking to flood the market and bring the over all price down (not to mention try to bring more financial stability to the USSR); the cartel caved and bought them from the Soviets to maintain control over the market.

Imagine that, socialist/communist, centrally planned USSR was going to use market forces to depreciate the value of diamonds.