Aug 16 Ask John: Love Hina vs Tenchi Muyo

[Bradster]

Though I haven't seen the Love Hina anime in a few years myself, I seem to remember thinking that the character development suffered primarily because the anime focussed more on being a high-energy ensemble comedy, and char development in the manga happened primarily in low-action, small-group settings. Naru, Keitaro, and Mutsumi studying together comes to mind, as well as chapters which had a story between Keitaro and a single girl.


I thought it interesting that John brought up the "first-seen" explanation for preference between the two subject anime: as someone who discovered anime in 1995 but never watched Tenchi until this year and found it completely uninteresting (as opposed to being a fairly dedicated LH fan before burning out), this probably fits my situation perfectly. Having seen so many harem anime before finally watching TM, I've long since been pigeonholing each character with their archetype (Baby, *****, Brawler, Belle, Bubblehead, archetype which I can't alliterate properly) and then focusing on the story because I know that it's highly probable that nobody will grow much as a character beyond perhaps a personal epiphany in a chara-centric episode, and that more than one of the girls will develop feelings for the milquetoast main man. Ignoring the characters in a harem anime (beyond acknowledging that there are separate ones) probably doomed TM for me.

[Suiko Eiji]

I thought it interesting that John brought up the "first-seen" explanation for preference between the two subject anime: as someone who discovered anime in 1995 but never watched Tenchi until this year and found it completely uninteresting (as opposed to being a fairly dedicated LH fan before burning out), this probably fits my situation perfectly.

I personally think this has a lot to do with it. I consider myself a fan of the early Nineties OAV (Ryou-ou-ki, Ryou-ou-ki 2, Night Before the Carneval, Mihoshi Special) and the first Tenchi-Muyo! TV Series (Tenchi Universe in the States). I also enjoyed the three movies. I did however, also watch through the Love Hina TV series, specials, and Love Hina Again OAVs and read something around the lines of the first half of the manga.

John makes some excellent comparisons in both the pros and cons of each series and does an excellent job of not showing a bias towards either one; I personally cannot say whether or not he has a real bias towards either one. Purely from my opinion, I would say that Tenchi Muyo! is the superior series but not wholly because I saw it first. I like Tenchi because of the amount of diversity it had - there were stories at the home, about fitting in, and sci-fi shounen adventures in space and all with the same, well developed cast. Love Hina, to me, just seemed to stagnate with practically identical jokes towards the end of the TV series. The Christmas special was especially touching, but the Spring Special and LHA OAV just seemed to be more of a return to where the TV series left off. Without much change through the story, watching LH in episodes in the twenties was like watching episode 7 or 8 all over again.

My first (and false) start on Love Hina was via some poor quality fansubs, though the situation intrigued me, as it was the first series like Tenchi Muyo! that I was aware of. So, I picked up the first DVD, watched through it, and enjoyed it enough to purchase the next three volumes. But, watching those three, it was just more and more of the same. Where as after the first four or five episodes, I was psyched about a new spin on Tenchin Muyo!, by episode 16 it had very little in common with why I liked Tenchi Muyo!. A friend of mine had completed the series on DVD and sought out LHA fansubs, so I completed the series with him.

I also don't mean to say that Tenchi can do no wrong - that's far from the truth. I watched Shin Tenchi Muyo! (Tenchi in Tokyo), and like many Tenchi fans, wasn't impressed. I didn't mind the addition of Kiyone in Tenchi TV because, to me, she played more a foil to Mihoshi than as a rival for Tenchi's love. That was one of the exact reasons I hated Sakuya. I watched Tenchi GXP and while I thought it wasn't a bad anime, it was bad Tenchi. Finally, Ryou-ou-ki 3 was the straw that broke the horse's back and I threw my hands up in the air with frustration. The same type of approach to the harem formula that had become popular with series that came after Love Hina (and have also flooded the market with moe) was applied to Tenchi.

Like you, though, I've not been able to enjoy a single harem type of anime since Love Hina, only where we differ is that I enjoyed Tenchi Muyo! as well.

[WadeW]

I think the reason why Bradster didn't find Tenchi Muyo! too interesting after watching so many harem shows is because it could VERY easily be said that all harem shows made in the 90's to now build off of ground established by Tenchi, which is why all the "standard" and "mundane" archetypes are in it. It's easy to say that a BMW is superior to a Model-T. However, as John emphasizes, my personal tastes have led me to think of Tenchi Muyo! as my all-time favorite anime. I first saw it back in 97, when I began to take anime more seriously than I did in the past. I had seen anime when I was a kid, but I didn't really pay attention to it until I started watching Robotech on a regular basis. Then after watching Tenchi, I desided to become the anime geek that I am today.

I agree with John in that the series is more character-interaction based than story driven, but the stories do strike a cord with me. I like the settings, I like the advanced technology designs, I like the space monarchy concept... what can I say, it just blows my man-skirt up!

[Gendo]

I enjoyed love hina quite a bit. The thing I liked most is that it did something that few harem before it ever did, and what few have ever copied. That being that the main love interest is not simply some mindless tool throwing themself on the guy (Chobits, Ah! My Goddess, Ai Yori Aoshi, Girls Bravo, etc, etc, etc...). Keitero actually had to work to be accepted at the house, and to get the girl in the end. Kind of wish more shows would do that then just have some stupid reason for the girl to just instantly fall in love with the guy.

[Suiko Eiji]

^This may just be me, but is Ah! My Goddess really considered a harem anime?

[Gendo]

^This may just be me, but is Ah! My Goddess really considered a harem anime?

I would, 3 girls, one house, more girls arround. If anything there is a maybe it would be Chobits. There was really only one main love interest the entire show and he jus tlived with Chii, but it fits into the whole thing about the girl throwing hereself all over the guy.

[ZeroRyoko1974]

I enjoyed both shows very much. If you ignore Tenchi in Tokyo, and the last movie, it was an enjoyable series to watch. I agree though with the idea that the characters were bigger then the show itself. Love Hina as an anime was fun to watch, but the manga was far superior.

[HitokiriShadow]

^This may just be me, but is Ah! My Goddess really considered a harem anime?

Probably. One main guy (most other guys are pretty minor) with three goddesses and numerous other girls who all like Keiichi to some degree or another. Sounds like harem to me.

[Suiko Eiji]

Probably. One main guy (most other guys are pretty minor) with three goddesses and numerous other girls who all like Keiichi to some degree or another. Sounds like harem to me.

See, I've never really seen it as a harem. To me, it seems that Belldandy is the only one with real romantic feelings towards Keiichi. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about the other goddesses like Peroth. Skuld looks up to Keiichi as a stupid, big brother, much like Keiichi's actual sister Megumi does. Sayoko has assumably romantic feelings for him, but I really cannot see anyone else really fighting over him similarly that the girls in Tenchi fought over him.

I guess actually sitting down and thinking about it hard, I can see where one would get that; just not what I've always considered it to be, or not exactly as the stereotypical moe, harem anime.

[HitokiriShadow]

Even if Belldandy is the only one with true romantic feelings, it is still one guy with lots of girls focusing on him. That's pretty much all that's needed to be considered harem, in my opinion at least.

For example, Happy Lesson seems to be about a boy living with 5 foster mothers/teachers with no romantic feelings between them. I haven't actually seen it so maybe some romantic feelings develop among some of them, but I don't think they do.

The problem with requiring more than one or two (since decent romances usually require a rival or an alternative of some sort), is that many series widely considered harem would no longer be harem under that definition. Also, series not usually considered harem might qualify as "harem" under that definition.

[Suiko Eiji]

No, it makes sense. Like I said, it never really sturck me as such but I don't think it is entirely unfounded.

I agree also that tweeking with the definition to make to any much more strict or much more loose would change what would be considered a harem show at the present time.

I guess there are two harem shows I like ... that's kind of depressing.

[HitokiriShadow]

Now, now, Suiko, its okay. A little Love Hina will cheer you right up :P

[Suiko Eiji]

Now, now, Suiko, its okay. A little Love Hina will cheer you right up :P

I just died a little inside. :crybaby:

I'll have to find the most anti-harem anime on my DVD shelf when I get home from work tonight...

[HitokiriShadow]

I just died a little inside. :crybaby:


It's okay. It was the emo part. ;)

I'll have to find the most anti-harem anime on my DVD shelf when I get home from work tonight...

Watch a classic. Something like Genesis Climber Mospeada. Mecha is the anti-harem (except for Gundam SEED Destiny).

That, or some hardcore yaoi. You don't have to worry about girls much there.

[Suiko Eiji]

It's okay. It was the emo part. ;)

I wouldn't have it any other way. :lol:

Watch a classic. Something like Genesis Climber Mospeada. Mecha is the anti-harem (except for Gundam SEED Destiny).

Mospeada is on my to buy list, so it's not on the shelf yet. Plenty of mecha on the shelf, though, so no worries there. I'm sure I'll find something, I'm just not sure what yet. I've still got a few more hours to think about it.

That, or some hardcore yaoi. You don't have to worry about girls much there.

No, not at all. Though, I would worry why there's hardcore yaoi on my DVD shelf XD

[Daishikaze]

Suiko, you better hurry up and get Mospeada, I was lucky to get mine, and even then it took 3 months for it to finally arrive.

[Suiko Eiji]

Suiko, you better hurry up and get Mospeada, I was lucky to get mine, and even then it took 3 months for it to finally arrive.

Considering I went on AnimEigo blow outs earlier this week and AWA is coming up in a little over a month, I'm holding off ordering stuff for the next couple of weeks. (Actually, one of the boxes came in today, so I think I'm watching Crusher Joe tonight)

Besides, I've got enough stuff to last me through the next semester as it is; if I order in October and don't get Mospeada until January, I'll be fine.

[Paul Soth]

Oh my Goddess! is actually the most straightforward Magical Girlfriend series out there. The markers in this case would be that the relationship between Keiichi and Belldandy is set and that the rest of the cast recognizes it (whether or not they approve is another issue...) and the other female characters (for the most part) don't attempt to win Keiichi over.

[Suiko Eiji]

I was also unaware that "Magical Girlfriend" was anything more than a plot device.

I'm going back to the 80s where Robots were Real and girls seldom got involved. :lol:

[Gannon]

I think the reason why Bradster didn't find Tenchi Muyo! too interesting after watching so many harem shows is because it could VERY easily be said that all harem shows made in the 90's to now build off of ground established by Tenchi, which is why all the "standard" and "mundane" archetypes are in it.

Agree with this.

I like Tenchi Muyo! more than I like the other harems, but I think it has little to do with seeing it first. The way I see it, Tenchi Muyo! is simply executed better than all of the other harems (although Love Hina does come close at times). As far as I'm concerned, Tenchi has the more memorable cast of characters, which is key in harem. Love Hina's cast is good, but for the most part they're just more of what you've already seen, albeit an alternate version.

I liked how Love Hina had progression and underlying themes unlike Tenchi, and Keitaro wasn't your typical main character. Like Tenchi, the majority of it was episodic in nature, but it doesn't pull it off half as good as Tenchi Muyo! did in the past. I admit that Tenchi was a bit formulaic, but it was still consistant in it's entertainment. The whole point of Tenchi Muyo! IS to be episodic, so I didn't mind it coming from Tenchi. Love Hina on the other hand, wasn't nearly as effective in that department.

Also, Keitaro is more diverse, but I thought Tenchi was the better male lead. To me, it made more sense that all the girls liked Tenchi; plus I liked that Tenchi wasn't at the mercy of his girls like Keitaro was. You felt for Keitaro, but Tenchi to me is the more respectable guy.