Awkward Situation?

[Spadesy]

Discuss please, maybe suggest a better way to talk to Okinawans? :P

On Friday night, two of my friends and myself went down to a castle/park place, equipped with a bottle of rum and some pineapple juice. Now, we've had enough to be friendly and sociable...we weren't slurring our words or acting retarded.

We just got done taking pictures on top of a tall sun dial, each of us taking turns standing on it and posing (great fun, pictures will follow soon). But anyway, we noticed some Okinawan girls and guys sitting in a circle, drinking sake and shooting a few fireworks off about 30 feet away. It's completely dark out, mind you, so this was easy to notice.

Well, I was ballsy enough to drag my two friends into approaching them saying "konbonwa!" And they greeted us back. There were three girls and two guys there. We asked how they were doing, and in the best English they could muster, they said they were doing fine and asked us to join in their circle. We even took a few group pictures (again, they will follow soon).

We shared our rum and they shared their sake, and the girls were getting pretty fond of us. Everything was going cool, even the guys were trying to conversate, except for one dude. Eventually, this one guy asked us politely to "go home." We understood, got up, and they kept saying "sorry, sorry" as we were leaving. We said it was okay, said our byes, and were off.

I take it one of the girls might have been his girlfriend, the guy that asked us to leave. Did we offend this guy, or were things getting uncomfortable you think?

I guess I'm trying to figure out a way to approach Okinawan natives without the social stigma of "uh oh, U.S Marines, they're going to rape our girls and steal our cash!" coming along with it.

Were we too intrusive, not polite, or what? Kiyomi, I'm looking in your direction. ;)

But other than that, very fun night. Glad I had it.

[kiyomi]

Well hun, back in my day (when dinasours roamed this great earth), the GI's (that's what we called you guys), were a friendly bunch and the natives really didn't mind you guys being there.

But I know times have changed and all because of the rapes and trials of the military men there in recent years, so I really don't know how the natives react anymore to you guys.

The group you encountered were friendly enough, up until a certain point. That's how they are. They like you for a while..but maybe a wrong hand gesture or posture, or even facial expression could have set that one guy off and decided "enough of these Americans." I don't really know.

In the Japanese culture, there are so many different customs that I just can't explain it all to you. And you also have to remember, that some customs change from generation to generation.

Like I said, back in my day, the Okinawans tolerated the military. I didn't see any problems with the soldiers and the native population. There were no rapes, no violence of any kind.

But now..well, it's obviously different. The natives are now very wary of you soldiers encroaching on their women/girls. Know what I mean?

Since you said the girls were beginning to like you guys alot better, maybe that's when the so called "red-flag" appeared on that guys brain cells and he called a halt to the whole thing, even if you and your buddies didn't mean any harm, that man obviously felt maybe resenment or fear of you guys.

Regardless, it's best if you don't approach the natives like that. Let them come to YOU. If they want to start a convo or whatever, then let THEM make the first move. Japanese people are very private kind of people hun. Remember that and respect that about them.

Anyway, hope this helped you out some.

Remember...Japanese people are shy, quiet, reserved and very private.

I'm the exception to the norm...as usual.

(And to all my fellow Nipponjins out there that might get offended by what I've said in here..Sorry, but this is MY opinion and ONLY my opinion.)

[Spadesy]

Thanks for your input, appreciated as always.

[EV.]

thats good to know, if I ever get to go to japan, to always have an open mind

[kiyomi]

Japanese people are normally very friendly, but they also like their privacy. That's why I suggested to Dusty to respect the culture to which he is being acclimated to.

If he does that, then he should have no problems getting along with the native population and have a great time there.

[EV.]

every culture like to have there privacy, but some much more then other like the Japanese their more private. Thats one thing that I like about the culture, people don't ask too much question (well private one any way).

[greg]

I cannot imagine what it's like to live in Okinawa these days. I lived in Japan for two years, and the only time I ever encountered any blatant racism was in Sasebo, a military town near Nagasaki. My wife (Japanese) and I were walking in the shotengai (shopping arcade) looking for Wai Wai Boeki, a cool toy shop. This elderly Japanese man walked past us and said to my wife, "Omae wa Nihonjin ka? Baka." So apparently she's a fool to be seen with me, an American. I don't know if he has it in for just military personnel or all Americans (if only military, then I'd like to know how I was mistaken for a military guy), but in all of Japan, I experienced this in Sasebo. Later that night I saw some Americans running around and shouting in the empty shopping arcade, acting like idiots. It's a shame when people cannot stop to think how they are portraying themselves and their home country.

It seems the reason why military-types get such a bad rap is because the military recruits some pretty uneducated, uncultured dingbats, send them all over the world to behave like animals and slobber all over the local women. It just takes a few rotten apples to spoil the barrel, as they say, and give the rest a bad name...

Dusty, if it was anywhere else in the country, and if you and your friends were not getting too comfortable with the girls, then odds are you wouldn't have had such a situation. Those who are open to intercultural experiences rarely get their hackles up like that.

[EV.]

"Later that night I saw some Americans running around and shouting in the empty shopping arcade, acting like idiots" thats a good point there Greg, and thats way americans ask why their are not liked in others and in their own country.

[kiyomi]

But EV, we also have to remember that in every country and culture, there are the bad seeds, so to speak, that can cause problems in other countries. So, It's just not the "American" that are doing things and making a bad name for themselves.

Us Japanese people can get a bit too loud or even obnoxious in another country.

Look at the recent Japanese game shows and other shows on their TV network. There you go.

Explains it all. ^_^

[cris]

No matter where you're going to go, if you're different, there will be a group of people (it's mostly the conservatives/older generaton) that will talk crap.

You can say the same when a Japanese people comes here for whatever, people will call them fobs and stuff. Not really the same situation, but it's the same logic.

It's just matters on the person, not the country. You can live in America and be a cauc-asian 100% anglosax decent, but if you go to a heavily, lets say Black community, some people will call you Whitey, White-boy, w/e while some of them don't disrespect. Infact, skin-color wouldn't really matter =-P some people are just stupid

[LostCause]

Dusty, we all have crosses to bear and stereotypes to deal with. You might be the nicest guy in american military, but you are still american military . And will be perseived as such. When people get to know you and your buddies better they might see you for yourselves, but in the begginning we all come across as some type. Americans/ignorant imperialists, muslims/terrorists, russians/commi/kgb spies (until recently anyway) and so on. I can testify that nearly all guys in nearly all cultures feel some sort of resentment when 'their' girls find men from another culture/background attractive. Some more than others, some express it, others don't. Alcohol usually helps expressing what otherwise might have been left unsaid.
I understand that your intentions were friendly but unfortunately there is a lot of cultural and historical baggage we (people) keep dragging around with us. Sometimes it comes into play without a slightest provocation.
When I was visiting South Korea, I stayed with a friend of mine. We usually ate at that one diner. So one day we were sitting there, talking in english of course. One middle aged lady comes up to my friend and starts yelling at her in korean. My friend was no pushover and they had a yelling match which I was witnessing without a clue as to what caused it. The lady stormed out of the place and my friend explained to me that the woman thought it was unpatriotic of a korean to speak english and associate with a foreigner. :blink:
So like Kiyomi said, let them come to you.

[hiroaki]

Like I said, back in my day, the Okinawans tolerated the military. I didn't see any problems with the soldiers and the native population. There were no rapes, no violence of any kind.

Let's kill/rape the Okinawa people and get　innocent. (Japanese) (http://www.coara.or.jp/~yufukiri/henji/jyoseinohigai.html)　You are a survivor of Ryukyu.

[Bernard_Monsha]

It seems the reason why military-types get such a bad rap is because the military recruits some pretty uneducated, uncultured dingbats, send them all over the world to behave like animals and slobber all over the local women. It just takes a few rotten apples to spoil the barrel, as they say, and give the rest a bad name...

Thems soome fighting words right there. The Marines don't recruit idiots, neither does the Navy or Airforce. Army guys are a diffrent story altogether. People have a bad opnion of Americans mostly because of civilians not the military. The majority of crimes in other countries by Americans are alll civilian. Most tourist irregardless of country of origin are complete morons and *******s. How many times have you been forced to wait because some tourist wants to haggle prices of a coke in the 7-11 because they do it in Uzbekistan. The only thing military people can be is rowdy and horny. If you spent 6 months at sea you would be too. I can tell you some wild stories about japanese sailors pulling into Pearl Harbour who were looking for some marines to show them how too have a good time.

Dusty, I think you had a jealous boyfriend and nothing else. One thing to remeber about the Japanese, do not look directly into their eyes for too long. That literally is a challenge or a threat and a serious one it will put them on edge simply nod bow and glance then look away.

for hiroaki (http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37878&archive=true)

In 2005, 6,675 felonies resulted in arrests on Okinawa. Only 66 cases involved Americans here under the SOFA. And of the 4,346 people arrested for those felonies, just 65 were U.S. servicemembers, their dependents or civilian workers.

“According to statistics provided by the Okinawa Prefectural Police for 2005, the number of crimes committed by U.S. personnel, consisting of servicemembers and military dependents, continues to remain proportionately low compared to the overall crime rate on the island,” said Marine spokesman 1st Lt. Clint Gebke.

Of the 1,407,613 people living in Okinawa prefecture, 42,570 — or about 3 percent — are Americans connected with the U.S. military. Gebke pointed out that the 2005 statistics show 0.98 percent of the total serious crimes on Okinawa were linked to Americans and 1.5 percent of the people arrested were SOFA status personnel.

Marines, in particular, commit an even lower proportion of crimes, the statistics indicate. Just more than half of the active-duty servicemembers on the island — 12,520 of 22,470 — are Marines.

[Rain]

Because Asian guys know that White guys get all the chicks.

In all seriousness, though, I think said boyfriend was clearly jealous of how his girlfriend was cozying up to you boys. So he decided that he had to to prevent any further intermingling from occuring before you actually manage to sway her affections.

[Spadesy]

I remembered the part about not looking them in the eyes, because I don't like looking at people in the eyes anyway - I'm comfortable looking beside them into empty space while conversating, sometimes eyeing them for half a second. :lol: Call it a quirk.

Those statistics put me at ease there Bernard, especially the part about Marines only accounting for a little more than half of the crimes committed by the U.S military - considering the majority of the camps/bases are for Marines.

When I first came here, I adopted the "policy" of letting people come to me if they want to. But wouldn't that result in never speaking to them? Approaching them is a little easier, but if it makes them feel awkward, then I can't be doing that.

[LostCause]

When I first came here, I adopted the "policy" of letting people come to me if they want to. But wouldn't that result in never speaking to them? Approaching them is a little easier, but if it makes them feel awkward, then I can't be doing that.

The one's that will come are ready and more open minded. The rest, not so sure.

[hiroaki]

　http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=37878&archive=true

Japan don't have right to judge USFJ's criminal .

The agreement has been a target of severe criticism especially from leftist activists as well as the Japanese residents of areas that host U.S. military bases such as Okinawa because it gives virtually extraterritorial rights to U.S. military personnnel in Japan. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-Japan_Status_of_Forces_Agreement)

The extreme left say sarcasm.
"No matter how the Okinawa people is killed, we aren't the safety Japanese oak problems.　Safety is more important than Okinawa's six-year-old girl that was raped by the USFJ."
(Because it is not a Chinese military to invade Japan,) they are angry.

[Spadesy]

You mean the 12 year old that was raped by those nimrods back in 1995? 11 years ago?

That's one thing that irks me. Why the hell do Asian countries choose to live in a past they weren't even around to witness? I can understand the security of keeping close to your people, but open-mindedness is a rarity amongst the people I've attempted to talk with.

[Rain]

That's one thing that irks me. Why the hell do Asian countries choose to live in a past they weren't even around to witness? I can understand the security of keeping close to your people, but open-mindedness is a rarity amongst the people I've attempted to talk with.

One might say that they are not willing to forgive and forget so easily. Asian cultures have customs and traditions that are considerably hard to grasp for the foreign man.

Japanese folks tend to be rather close-minded due to strict cultural upbringings.

[EV.]

some people are afraid of new changes, so thats way they live in the past sort of speak. and those who accept changes will come to you with open minds

[kiyomi]

You mean the 12 year old that was raped by those nimrods back in 1995? 11 years ago?

That's one thing that irks me. Why the hell do Asian countries choose to live in a past they weren't even around to witness? I can understand the security of keeping close to your people, but open-mindedness is a rarity amongst the people I've attempted to talk with.

Why are there KKK here in the US, or other hate groups or even the War Veterans (some, NOT ALL), that refuse to open up their minds and that live in the past?

Like I said, there will always be people all over the world that won't be open minded and willing to change their views of foriegners..but majority of people are willing to let go of past transgretions and be willing to accept what is the here and now.

Try to understand the culture to which you are living in. Do your homeowrk and read up on the Island and people. That way, you might have a better understanding on who and why they are like they are.

Good luck to you and I sincerely hope you enjoy your time on that fine little Island that I have very fond memories of. If you need any more help, I'll be here and try to help you the best I can.

[Spadesy]

Thanks again. I'm all about cultural tolerance.

[hiroaki]

You mean the 12 year old that was raped by those nimrods back in 1995? 11 years ago?

NooOoo! It was only my favorite red's black humor.

[Bernard_Monsha]

Japan don't have right to judge USFJ's criminal .

That is part of the treaty they signed at the end of the war, the UCMJ is much stricter than any civilian court in the first world.

The extreme left say sarcasm.
"No matter how the Okinawa people is killed, we aren't the safety Japanese oak problems.　Safety is more important than Okinawa's six-year-old girl that was raped by the USFJ."
(Because it is not a Chinese military to invade Japan,) they are angry.

That is putting blame of crime on a minority group. It happens everywere, in the US, China, India, the UK. You would hear similer things about Irish and Italians in the 19th century here. To a degree they still carry that stigma because a very small percentage were bad.

[hiroaki]

That is putting blame of crime on a minority group. It happens everywere, in the US, China, India, the UK. You would hear similer things about Irish and Italians in the 19th century here. To a degree they still carry that stigma because a very small percentage were bad.

I sympathize with it. I was embarrassed because I was treated as minority's representative by my classmate.

Japan is criticized from surroundings further if Japan self-defends without America.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I sympathize with it. I was embarrassed because I was treated as minority's representative by my classmate.

Japan is criticized from surroundings further if Japan self-defends without America.


I myself would like japan to get rid of the ppacifist clause in it's constitution and act as a counterbalence to China.

[Holy Knight]

My thoughts on the matter are that either:

1) He is prejudiced againt Americans.

2) He did not like you or your attitude.

3) He was protective of his girlfriend(s).

4) He was jealous of certain aspects surrounding the matter.

It may not so much have to do with them being japanese as them being human. Any of the above four things I listed could be attributed to anyone regardless of culture. People see things their own way and you can't change that. Best thing to do is to come to an understanding of how things go in the below-surface levels of the communication. sadly, you can only do that once you get to know the person.

Dusty, I think you had a jealous boyfriend and nothing else. One thing to remeber about the Japanese, do not look directly into their eyes for too long. That literally is a challenge or a threat and a serious one it will put them on edge simply nod bow and glance then look away.

Does this mean I'd be in deep trouble if I ever met a pure-bred japanese? I have a very direct stare because I have hearing problems so I can't hear people unless I look them directly in the eyes. Would this be taken as a direct threat even if I told them I cannot hear well?

[Spadesy]

You could look at the side of their mouths, maybe not directly into their eyes? The only purpose of not looking them directly in the eyes is not to present a challenge or show confrontation, just a sincere intention to speak with them.