Why Was ____ Banned?

[Smith]

Since I just now banned and temporarily banned 4 users in one fell swoop, I thought I'd create this thread in advance of the usual "Why was_____ banned?" thread(s).

MagicianCamille = Permanently Banned for constantly being offtopic, among other reasons, but primarily being offtopic. I orginally planned to ban him for 5 days, but after reading his post history, I decided he needed a Perma-ban. He will now have to take it up with the Administrators and plead his case.


Lord Dagoth = 2-day ban for bypassing the censor and flaming.

Joeshie = 2-day ban for bypassing the censor.

Samurai Drifter = 2-day ban for bypassing the censor.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

So you guys chose now to Moderate!
How do you bypass a censor anyway?

So you guys had time to temp-ban\perm ban people, but not fix the AN swear filter?

[Jae Hoon]

Only admins can do anything with the filter.

If your constantly spamming flaming and trolling like Camile was you know you are going to get banned.

This acting suprised stuff has to stop.

We dont choose when to moderate, we do what we can.

[Smith]

I requested ***** be added to the censor, but now that it also censors glas ses, pas ses, I wish it would be fixed or modifed to allow full words with the censored words.. Yoshitaka Amano Yosh i taka Amano is another example.. Can't get everything you want though.. I am sure the Administrators will address this issue tomorrow.
Edit/Add: Yoshitaka's ok now.. Assassins = as s as sins.. (testing)
So you guys chose now to Moderate!

If you saw issues in the past that should have been addressed, all you had to do was report the post and state a valid reason as to why you feel a user or a post needs to be addressed. Keep that in mind in the future. Thank you for your time.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

We dont choose when to moderate, we do what we can.

Like posting in "spam" threads and not closing them? ;)

*Thinks back to earlier today when there was the CAmille awesome thread when you posted in it and didn't close it*

[Jae Hoon]

Like posting in "spam" threads and not closing them? ;)

*Thinks back to earlier today when there was the CAmille awesome thread when you posted in it and didn't close it*


I beg to differ I did indeed close it, nice try though.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

I beg to differ I did indeed close it, nice try though.

Wrong. You posted "Llamas > Camille." and then it got deleted sometime later.

G.G.

[Soluzar]

Leaving Camille aside as a special case, since when did we have bans without warnings first? I can't help but notice that this has been different to all established custom and practice.

I don't deny that it was very silly of people to go around posting **** in my topic, but warnings have previously been in order. May I presume that all the above four (Camille excluded) were already on a warning?

[Jae Hoon]

Wrong. You posted "Llamas > Camille." and then it got deleted sometime later.

G.G.


Again wrong, I closed it later. I had other things to do at the time. You can quit trying to play your little games btw.

[Smith]

S-Mods aren't perfect robots. If we were perfect like a robot or a program or there was a "robo-mod" we all would be banned the instant we posted anything that was censored, or any time one of our posts would get reported, we'd get banned until the administrators saw fit. Think about it.

[Smith]

Leaving Camille aside as a special case, since when did we have bans without warnings first? I can't help but notice that this has been different to all established custom and practice.

I don't deny that it was very silly of people to go around posting **** in my topic, but warnings have previously been in order. May I presume that all the above four (Camille excluded) were already on a warning?

Since they were temporary bans and not permanent bans, I did not see a warning as necessary, and the temp bans themselves as in effect, warnings. The administrators may reverse the 2 day bans tomorrow if they saw fit, though.

[Soluzar]

S-Mods aren't perfect robots. If we were perfect like a robot or a program or there was a "robo-mod" we all would be banned the instant we posted anything that was censored, or any time one of our posts would get reported, we'd get banned until the administrators saw fit. Think about it.
I am thinking about it. I think that this isn't the way things are traditionally done, and I'm not sure that the rest of the staff will agree with the way this was done when they arrive. I know whereof I speak, if you recall, Dr. Strangelove.

Since they were temporary bans and not permanent bans, I did not see a warning as necessary, and the temp bans themselves as in effect, warnings. The administrators may reverse the 2 day bans tomorrow if they saw fit, though.I'm sure that you've thought through your actions thoroughly, and are mindful of the consequences of taking unilateral action that is not in accordance with organisational policies. We've rarely, if ever had temp bans before now, and I'm not sure who decided that we should start.

Remind me, is dissent against moderator actions considered to be an offense against the rules?

[Smith]

Temp bans aren't new. Announcing them is. I did think about what I should do over dinner, and decided I'd perma-ban and temp-ban people. I am sure if what I did was wrong, It will be explained to me, and I will do what is expected in the future.

[Jae Hoon]

Temp bans arent new at all, its a common practice on alot of forums to temp ban people as a warning. It has been done on AN as well but no one knew about it.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

I think Camille's banning is unjust.

This is, what, the third time he's been banned without warning?

I also want to call attention to his "post history." What posts are so bad? His posts read a lot like Brenard and Jae's to me.

[Animematt55]

Well, thank you for all the bans, mods. SOme of them were well deserved (i am beign serious). Also, Will Camille ever be back? like before?

[Leader Desslock]

From what I could see, posting abuse has been increasing exponentially for the last few days. Today it evidently crossed a tolerance threshhold, and the BanHammer came down. Looking at the names on the list, they're all veterans, and it's not like any of them should be that surprised. It's a minor inconvenience and chuckle afterward, but that's about it.

However, I would also say that today's actions only happened because a lot of stuff was allowed to slide over the last couple of days. In my opinion, if some of it had been nipped in the bud a bit sooner, then the BanHammer never would have been required.

Recommendation (for what it's worth), the mods need to have a team meeting and get on the same page about just what will and won't be tolerated, and for how long. I don't think you're all quite in sync at the moment, from what I've seen. I can think of at least three names I'd expect to see added to that list, if being 'off topic', abusive and/or disruptive are considered bannable offenses.

Anyway, no big deal, I'm sure we'll laugh in a couple of days. Until then, I'd say the membership prefers pro-active moderation to 'making examples', when possible.

[Jae Hoon]

No he has had warnings, plenty of them. He can deny them all he wants but it was already proven once and he even admitted to it on another forum.

If you dont like the fact that he was banned, leave it is that simple.

[Jae Hoon]

Desslock for us it doesnt matter.

Nothing really has been let slide but just for arguements sake if we cracked down everytime for every little thing then people would complain we are being nazi mods. It is a lose lose situation at least from a public standpoint.

[Rain]

Frenchie (Holy Knight) didn't deserve to get banned.

Kokyosho Foxie (sp?) made about approximately three or so spam threads and you took quite awhile (days, even) to ban him, and he even had to personally ask Jae to get banned and he was allowed to make another account. What the hell is that?

[Smith]

You do realize Holy Knight will be back in 2 days? He wasn't permanently banned.

[Jae Hoon]

He was allowed to make another account on the fact that he said he had changed his ways.

People do get second chances, I think people forgot Bernard himself got banned from AN.

[Soluzar]

Frankly, I'm not impressed, despite all the fine words on display in this thread. How many times have I defended the moderating team here at ANF, when other members have said that you were unfair, or harsh?

You probably think this is all about Camille's permanent ban, well you'd be wrong. A ban for even two days without just cause, and warning is still an unjust ban. I'd be the first to admit that Joeshie and the others did something pretty damned stupid, but it warrants a slap on the wrist, and normally that's exactly what it would get. Repeated violations would naturally bring a ban, but we're not being led to believe that this is the case here.

You realise that all four of those members are, to some extent established parts of the community? Don't you think they deserve some kind of a warning first? I'm sure I think they've earned that. This kind of treatment can only antagonise your userbase, if there's any chance that you care about that. I don't buy into Char's concept that the temp ban is equivalent to a warning in any way.

I'm quite sure that my "feedback" carries no weight whatsover, but it's still nice to get it said. What this amounts to is that there is a member on the moderation team who doesn't fit. That's the Elephant in the room, folks, and I just pointed to it. Everything that Desslock said about posting abuse is correct, and he's equally correct that the moderators response has caused a problem that could easily have been avoided.

As far as I'm concerned, you can ban my British *** as well, if you'd like. Temp or perm, you choose. Char? Care to roll the dice? You have to ask yourself, though... what makes a good member like me, turn bad?

[Jae Hoon]

Again temp banning is nothing new at all, it has been used on AN you just never knew it.

It is used as a warning, that is the slap on the wrist.

[Haruhi]

I think banning offenders for a few days is pretty leniant, regardless of warnings. Temporary bannings are, in a way, a warning themselves. If people continually post things that are offensive, even after warnings (which is usually more than just once), then they will be banned permanently. I warn people, but generally, that doesn't work.

And contrary to popular belief, very few members are banned for offensive behavior. We try to give them as many chances as we can, w/out having to moderate. Perma-bans are no fun, and are the LAST resorts for us. In the case of Joshie and everybody else that was temp-banned, they deliberately bypassed the censor to show off what they could do, and even encouraged it.

Remind me, is dissent against moderator actions considered to be an offense against the rules?

No, it isn't. If presented in a mature and tactful manner, we take it seriously. Please know that your input is always appreciated.



This is, what, the third time he's been banned without warning?


And he was banned always for the same reasons.

Recommendation (for what it's worth), the mods need to have a team meeting and get on the same page about just what will and won't be tolerated, and for how long. I don't think you're all quite in sync at the moment, from what I've seen. I can think of at least three names I'd expect to see added to that list, if being 'off topic', abusive and/or disruptive are considered bannable offenses.


Yes, you are right! A lot of us operate just a bit differently than the other, and as a result, teamwork isn't quite what it should be. I agree that we need to huddle up and discuss strats...

[Leader Desslock]

Desslock for us it doesnt matter.
Hence the caveat "my opinion, for what it's worth". If it's worth nothing, so be it.

I'm not disagreeing with the decisions, by the way. If you'd taken out a newbie for emulating the behaviour of the veterans who knew better, I'd object. Nobody on that list should be surprised, so I'll let them make their own cases. ^_^

Nothing really has been let slide...
I quite strongly disagree, and it was only because I saw mods posting in these threads rather than moderating/closing/deleting them that I didn't report the posts/threads as offensive.

...just for arguements sake if we cracked down everytime for every little thing then people would complain we are being nazi mods. It is a lose lose situation at least from a public standpoint.
I didn't say you were going to please everyone. In my opinion (as I stated) in this instance, the membership would have preferred more proactive moderation. That's all I'm saying, as feedback to you and the rest of the mods, for when you have to draw that line in the future.

I'm in a lose-lose situation as well, you understand. If I don't give you feedback, then potentially unsatisfying moderation continues. If I give you feedback, then I'm seen as second-guessing your decisions. In this case, I'm not. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes feedback is feedback.

As always, ignore as you see fit. :thumbsup:

[Rain]

You do realize Holy Knight will be back in 2 days? He wasn't permanently banned.

It's still an unjustified ban, and it will be on his "record." I don't think he will be pleased to hear he gets a two-day ban for creating a supposed "spam" thread.

Here's something he had to say: "I thought it would be a thread to provoke philosophical thoughts and I get banned?"

You ban him with no warning whatsoever, and yet you let Foxie go on for days creating one spam thread after another. I don't see how this is "just."

[master terrence]

I actually knew the temp ban was a warning, and yes I thought the why thread was really dumb... but, I've seen HK post topics on other forums, and honestly, I think the why thread was like discussion on the huamn tendency to ask why. I've come to this conclusion based on the fact that HK posted the topic.... but don't take my word for it anyways. The guy thinks he's a knight after all. Then again, his uberbase made the thread lame.

I must say you are brave for make a thread on the matter, but I think soluzar should be banned. He's wording things nicely, but man-oman is he offensive.

[Skyy Blu]

You realise that all four of those members are, to some extent established parts of the community? Don't you think they deserve some kind of a warning first? I'm sure I think they've earned that.
I agree with your whole statement but this one just doesn't sit well with me. So because their an "established parts of the community" and did something wrong, they shouldn't be punished without warning? and if so what if it was me or another fairly new member here, would you be on a crusade then?

[Bernard_Monsha]

I think Camille's banning is unjust.


Ohhhh no Camille has been warned several times by myself and others to tone it down. Popularity does not equal immunity from the rules. A little discretion on his part would have been wise considering he was banned before.

So far as the others they should know better.

Frenchie (Holy Knight) didn't deserve to get banned.

Kokyosho Foxie (sp?) made about approximately three or so spam threads and you took quite awhile (days, even) to ban him, and he even had to personally ask Jae to get banned and he was allowed to make another account. What the hell is that?


Foxy does not post here anymore and shaped up after I presented him with the sword of damacles to him and his multiple personalities. There is also a big diffrence between someone doing that because they are new and someone who has been here and knows what will happen.

[Smith]

I feel being warned by a S-Mod or Admin is easily forgotten, as the user can still go on and post. Also, I feel that in some cases warning(espeically if more than one warn was given) a member can sometimes boost their ego, as in the case of Arsinol back in the day.
I feel temp banning would give them some considerable time to think things over and after all, I am allowing them back. As Desslock said, these 4 are veterans and knew what they were doing.
Dissent aganist moderators is good, if done civilly. I actually welcome criticsim, as it betters my moderation decisons in the future. To quote Emerson(?), "Your best friend stabs you in the front, not the back."

[master terrence]

Ohhhh no Camille has been warned several times by myself and others to tone it down. Popularity does not equal immunity from the rules. A little discretion on his part would have been wise considering he was banned before.

So far as the others they should know better.



QFE, but I think a 1 month ban would have been much better just think about.


Back to the random "why" thread, HK is no fool and to be honest I miss the "why thread. I'm not even joking when I say it is a good question. It is a question asked on most psychology exams. I am not kidding you. My cousin worked at Nova university and took surveys of patients and such. The "why" thread wasn't meant to be a joke, just of a higher quality than most other topics.


I feel being warned by a S-Mod or Admin is easily forgotten, as the user can still go on and post.


That's a shame. I do my best keep up the terms I agreed to when I registered when I was warned a long time ago before the AN crash. I've seen many users completely change their ways, one big one: Evil_Koala.

[Soluzar]

And contrary to popular belief, very few members are banned for offensive behavior. We try to give them as many chances as we can, w/out having to moderate. Perma-bans are no fun, and are the LAST resorts for us. In the case of Joshie and everybody else that was temp-banned, they deliberately bypassed the censor to show off what they could do, and even encouraged it.It was dumb. It's a bonehead move. Lots more has been allowed to slide, recently, though. I have to agree with Desslock on this. I'm not going to repeat what he said, because it's already right there.

No, it isn't. If presented in a mature and tactful manner, we take it seriously. Please know that your input is always appreciated.
You should know there's only one of you S-Mods I've got a quarrel with, and I'm pretty confident I'll live to see the day when I'm vindicated. I may not have been as mature or tactful as I should have been, but I have to say that there are things about this move that bother me, and I'm sure you know why. If you don't, then why not ask me privately? I'm not going to say it here, but I'm pretty sure that you guys know anyway.

Like I said, if you think I'm being a jerk, I don't mind a ban. I'll take my medicine like a big boy. I'd like one of you to PM me first, though. Even if you think I'm full of it.

Dissent aganist moderators is good, if done civilly. I actually welcome criticsim, as it betters my moderation decisons in the future. To quote Emerson(?), "Your best friend stabs you in the front, not the back."In that case, Char, I will do you the courtesy of telling you that you aren't cut out for the job, in my opinion. I know I'm not cut out for the job either. I did it for a while, on a small two-bit forum, and I was the worst mod in history. Jeez, man, I stank out the place! The reason? I got too personally involved.

[Haruhi]

Frankly, I'm not impressed, despite all the fine words on display in this thread. How many times have I defended the moderating team here at ANF, when other members have said that you were unfair, or harsh?


We know how you stick up for us, even at times when we do make mistakes. And we are grateful that you do so. Sometimes we need all the support we can get. I hope you realize just how important your input is to us.

You probably think this is all about Camille's permanent ban, well you'd be wrong. A ban for even two days without just cause, and warning is still an unjust ban. I'd be the first to admit that Joeshie and the others did something pretty damned stupid, but it warrants a slap on the wrist, and normally that's exactly what it would get. Repeated violations would naturally bring a ban, but we're not being led to believe that this is the case here.

The thing about Joeshie and the others is that they were blatantly encouraging bypassing the censors and even showed examples of it themselves. Not only was it stupid, but it blatantly went against the ground rules the admin set up, even before the recent censorship. Had it just been a simple off topic remark or something notably less offensive, then a warning would have sufficed. However, it wasn't, and I think Chars actions showed that sometimes we will put our feet down, should push come to shove.


You realise that all four of those members are, to some extent established parts of the community? Don't you think they deserve some kind of a warning first? I'm sure I think they've earned that. This kind of treatment can only antagonise your userbase, if there's any chance that you care about that. I don't buy into Char's concept that the temp ban is equivalent to a warning in any way.


Yes, I agree that those four are some of the more regular posters here, but I disagree that they "deserve" any kind of warnings for deliberately breaking the rules. If they were angry about sometime and cursed about something as a result of it, then yes.. I think a warning would have sufficed. But in this case, they did it, just for the sake of doing it.


I'm quite sure that my "feedback" carries no weight whatsover, but it's still nice to get it said. What this amounts to is that there is a member on the moderation team who doesn't fit. That's the Elephant in the room, folks, and I just pointed to it. Everything that Desslock said about posting abuse is correct, and he's equally correct that the moderators response has caused a problem that could easily have been avoided.


No, as I've said before... I consider all of your criticisms as well as anybody else that presents themselves in a polite and mature manner seriously. I agree that I am often slow to act on them, but please know that I really do take your opinion seriously.



As far as I'm concerned, you can ban my British *** as well, if you'd like. Temp or perm, you choose. Char? Care to roll the dice? You have to ask yourself, though... what makes a good member like me, turn bad?

Maa, maa... Please calm down, Soluzar. I understand that sometimes things aren't peachy, and if the admins don't agree to this action, please understand that we too often make mistakes. And for that I apologize.

[Soluzar]

Maa, maa... Please calm down, Soluzar. I understand that sometimes things aren't peachy, and if the admins don't agree to this action, please understand that we too often make mistakes. And for that I apologize.
As always, you prove yourself to be the diplomat of this team, and for that I respect you. I'm just taking this particular case as an example of, and evidence for, a problem with a specific moderator. I've said my last word, unless one of you would care to visit my inbox, and see what I have to say behind closed doors.

<3 Haruhi <3 Jae <3 Sharp <3 Bernard.

You guys know we cool, right? :P

:heart: :heart:

[Smith]

I will now admit that I now realize it may have been a mistake to temp-ban Holy Knight, and I believe I was hasty. I should have warned or asked him about the "Why" thread first. But I still stand by the other 3 being temp-banned for bypassing the censor.
I tried to go back and unban him, but it looks like that is out of my control now that I temp-banned him. Him coming back sooner than expected is now in the Administrator's control. I expect him to be unbanned tomorrow before lunch.
If you read this, HK, I apologize for being hasty, and hope you accept my apologies.

[Haruhi]

I unbanned Holy Knight.

We are sorry...! We messed up really badly!

[Smith]

Thank you Haruhi. Thank you. I now feel a little bit better about that.

[Soluzar]

You unbanned Holy Knight? Then I take like 90% of it all back. Nah, more like 70% but still, that's more like it.

[Rain]

Yay for Quebec.

[Holy Knight]

I must admit that me being banned came as quite a surprise considering the way my thread was recieved. However, in not preventing its own degeneration, I do somewhat admit that it may have contributed in recieving my due consequences. Next time, I'll make sure things stay on track.

Then again, I would like to know where I bypassed the censor filter as I was not aware I bypassed it anywhere in my posts. May I be pointed as to what word was wrongly typed?

I do not hold anything against you for doing your jobs as well as you can and I'll make sure not to make any mistakes on my part, as well. ^_^

[Smith]

You did not bypass the censor. That is my mistake, I had wrote you down on a paper as creating a spammy topic, "Why" in the offtopic. I must have mixed you up with the other 3 who bypassed the censor. Banning more than one person at once isn't easy. I now realize that was a mistake. Again, I hope you accept my apologies for my action(s).
You had no control on how your thread was recieved, but you had influence on how it was reacted to by the way you started it.

[Joeshie Returns]

First off, I have to say "lol" at me getting banned.

Secondly, I will come out and say that I don't feel that I was unjustly banned. I knew what I was doing and I knew it was against the rules. However, part of me always enjoys to straddle the line with what I can and what I can't get away with. In this case, I lost out. While I would have much prefered a warning rather than a temp-ban, I still respect the decision for my banning.

And yet, I feel that I must reiterate what Desslock and Soluzar are saying about the lack of moderation prior to this incident. Many incidents of bannable offense have been left unnoticed or uncared for in the past. I second the notion that the mods sit down and discuss what isn't allowable at AN and what the punishments should be. This would help the moderation of AN become smoother and give the community a sense of what is and what isn't tolerated.

Again, I know what I did was wrong and I apologize for it. I also apologize for the creation of this second account, but I feel that I must at least say something while this thread is a hot topic of discussion.

[Smith]

If anyone feels there is lack of moderation at any point anywhere on the AN forums, please, I repeat, please do use the report post function, it is the best tool to assist us moderators in moderating the forums.
Joeshie, I think you will be ok, as long as the above post is the only one you make as "Joeshie returns". Or you only post in this thread for the sake of the discussion.

[Bernard_Monsha]

First off, I have to say "lol" at me getting banned.

Secondly, I will come out and say that I don't feel that I was unjustly banned. I knew what I was doing and I knew it was against the rules. However, part of me always enjoys to straddle the line with what I can and what I can't get away with. In this case, I lost out. While I would have much prefered a warning rather than a temp-ban, I still respect the decision for my banning.

And yet, I feel that I must reiterate what Desslock and Soluzar are saying about the lack of moderation prior to this incident. Many incidents of bannable offense have been left unnoticed or uncared for in the past. I second the notion that the mods sit down and discuss what isn't allowable at AN and what the punishments should be. This would help the moderation of AN become smoother and give the community a sense of what is and what isn't tolerated.

Again, I know what I did was wrong and I apologize for it. I also apologize for the creation of this second account, but I feel that I must at least say something while this thread is a hot topic of discussion.

I have one particular pet peeve on this forum. Do not create another account if you are banned. If you have an issue with your ban take it up with Kevin or Josh either by emailing them directly or by waiting two days and sending them a PM.

[Haruhi]

First off, I have to say "lol" at me getting banned.

Secondly, I will come out and say that I don't feel that I was unjustly banned. I knew what I was doing and I knew it was against the rules. However, part of me always enjoys to straddle the line with what I can and what I can't get away with. In this case, I lost out. While I would have much prefered a warning rather than a temp-ban, I still respect the decision for my banning.

And yet, I feel that I must reiterate what Desslock and Soluzar are saying about the lack of moderation prior to this incident. Many incidents of bannable offense have been left unnoticed or uncared for in the past. I second the notion that the mods sit down and discuss what isn't allowable at AN and what the punishments should be. This would help the moderation of AN become smoother and give the community a sense of what is and what isn't tolerated.

Again, I know what I did was wrong and I apologize for it. I also apologize for the creation of this second account, but I feel that I must at least say something while this thread is a hot topic of discussion.


Hrm.. You should change your original SN to "Joeshie the sequel" just because it's funny. =D

Anyways, please understand that while we didn't moderate everything accordingly, part of that is because not everything that was "bad" was reported. Most of the off topic/joke threads in questions were treated as just a way to goof around, and weren't reported.. So, that's partially an excuse. And something else to consider is that well... we screwed up. So, for that, we apologize.

[Soluzar]

It's undeniable that if five people get away with saying the word that starts with F and rhymes with duck, then the sixth person, when he gets modded, is going to feel hard done by. The better solution is to mod them all equally.

I'll also say that althout I acknowledge Haruhi's point that they were doing it deliberately just to demonstrate their leet skills, this also happens a LOT. I don't report all the ones I see because in all honesty, I'm too busy writing long-*** replies. I still don't believe, personally, that a censor bypass is ever worth more than just editing the post in question, but that's my own style, and I am not a mod.

For me this issue has never been so much about the severity of the punishement, as it was about the manner in which it was done. Since the matter has now been taken to PM, I'll leave it at that.

My hot head has already caused me to sound quite sufficiently like a jerk for one night, and I have PMs to write, and at least some sleep to get. The situation has been largely redeemed by the unbanning of Holy Knight, which was by far the worst part of this whole debacle. I also want everyone to be aware that as much as MagicianCamille is a friend of mine, I'm not the champion of his cause. It's been well-known since he returned that he remained here on sufferance only, and as much as I wish that weren't the case, nobody could argue a lack of due process.

[Smith]

Moderating ain't easy. I do not sit at the computer 40 hours a week and get paid to moderate( I don't think anybody does really). It is a completely voluntary job and generally thankless. Thus, I am here when I can be.
I do feel a bit better now that Holy Knight is unbanned, but I still feel torn up about being hasty in his case.
Again, I apolologize. In hindsight it is good that I created this thread and got feedback about my decisons. Suppose I didn't? Maybe another user would have made one, but in a way I was wecloming the discussion and keeping it open to criticsm.

[Leader Desslock]

It's undeniable that if five people get away with saying the word that starts with F and rhymes with duck
Firetruck? Or are you talking about the French word for 'seal'?

[Bernard_Monsha]

QFE, but I think a 1 month ban would have been much better just think about.


No he was perma-banned before and he has been warned several times. He was on parole and kept pressing the envelope despite repeated warnings from myself. He knows the drill though there is a possibility he may get back on but it is going to be harder for him to convince the admins that he should be let back on.



Char how is your first taste of forum love? :naughty:

[Smith]

Char how is your first taste of forum love? :naughty:
I'll sum it up with a few words. Peachy. Emotional rollercoaster. Time to chill, get out, walk and enjoy the sea air.
Again everyone, thank you for your support and criticsm. All for the better in the future.

[Soluzar]

Char how is your first taste of forum love? :naughty:
In case you're wondering, the reason I'm so angry is partly because it was my God-damned topic, and I feel kinda responsible. I did start out by drawing people's attention to the censor, and it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have got snarky about "p*****".

[Jae Hoon]

In case you're wondering, the reason I'm so angry is partly because it was my God-damned topic, and I feel kinda responsible. I did start out by drawing people's attention to the censor, and it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have got snarky about "p*****".


Like I have told you in the pm people have always tried to get around the filter. It isnt anything new, I found your starting post more amusing then anything. Filtering gl*****

[Soluzar]

Firetruck? Or are you talking about the French word for 'seal'?

Oh my god, he said "fire***ck". Sorry Desslock, it's been nice knowing you, but you're gonna get Banhammered for sure.

Like I have told you in the pm people have always tried to get around the filter. It isnt anything new, I found your starting post more amusing then anything. Filtering gl*****
Well anyway, that's part of why I've been an emo-b**ch about all this. I don't like me much when I'm an emo-b**ch, and I doubt anyone else does either. I feel guilty. Whether I should or not, that's not important. I saw the first one, and I just knew something would be said about it. I wasn't expecting bans, but whatever.

Now some good irony would be if I had got myself a temp-ban for bypassing "emo-b**ch". Hell, I've done everything else you can do on these forums. It's about time I got banned. :lol:

[Smith]

In case you're wondering, the reason I'm so angry is partly because it was my God-damned topic, and I feel kinda responsible. I did start out by drawing people's attention to the censor, and it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't have got snarky about "p*****".
Still, it brings up an important issue. I think it should be seriously addressed by the Administrators, and I vote for an upgrade to the forum to allow complete words. I remember Yoshitaka being censored for the 4 letter word in the middle of it, but now it isn't, so I have hope for gl***** and p***** to be uncensored, but ***** to remain censored.

[Haruhi]

Ah, so we're all on the same page now. Good, good.

I generally don't use words that really fall under the censor jurisdiction, but if it's as bad as you say it is, then it should definitely be addressed to the higher ups.

*lifts up her torches* Who's with me!

[Smith]

*lifts up torches* I'm with you, Haruhi!

I also think the censor thread brings up the issue of bypassing the censor to the administrators, and I am confident it will be addressed.

[VidelCoolGirl]

You know, I totally agreed with the whole "Popularity doesn't mean you are exempt from the rules." I think most forget that. There are a lot of times I think I should have had a temp-ban. I try to keep cool, but there are continuously a lot of people I see on here who deserved to get banned, but don't. I'm glad all this is behindus though. That whole AN Award thing has brought out the worst in all of us. *cries*

[Smith]

I'd like to urge more people to use the report button. Us S-Mods aren't godly and we can't see everything. We do need your help! Again, again, thank you everybody, for everything tonight. I'm going to call it a night.

[Gray]

Camille DESERVES, to be banned. While I, nor most of the other members wern't really affected, taking the IRC and banning everyone should not be a "Slap on the ****ing wrist" Stupid bull like this is why the IRC closed down the last time we had one. I've been here a year and a half and have witnessed 2 of his bannings. If anything the moderation and up-keep of these forums is some of the best I have seen. The mods actually try to help the people on these forums, and frankly shouldn't be required to give you an explination for thier reasoning.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Well, to a point, I disagree. If a police Officer came up to you, and said, "You're under arrest." You're going to want to know why. If I was banned, I would want to know the reason, and then after I know, would deal with it.

[Leader Desslock]

^@FMH Yeah, but the IRC isn't an official AN entity. I don't think anyone's behaviour on the IRC should affect their standing here on AN.

[Jae Hoon]

What he did on irc did not come into affect.

[VidelCoolGirl]

^@FMH Yeah, but the IRC isn't an official AN entity. I don't think anyone's behaviour on the IRC should affect their standing here on AN.

If that was the case, Prons, Me, Knight, Mel, Haro, and Everyone else would CERTAINLY be banned.

[Haruhi]

Well, to a point, I disagree. If a police Officer came up to you, and said, "You're under arrest." You're going to want to know why. If I was banned, I would want to know the reason, and then after I know, would deal with it.

Well, if somebody committed a crime... like say... burned an American flag, knowing full well that's a felony, I don't think they'd need to know why they're under arrest. Same case here. I think the people who deliberately bypassed the censorship knew that it was wrong, but just did it anyway.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Well, if somebody committed a crime... like say... burned an American flag, knowing full well that's a felony, I don't think they'd need to know why they're under arrest. Same case here. I think the people who deliberately bypassed the censorship knew that it was wrong, but just did it anyway.

Tis true, but I only feel that way for the people who were just banned, and came back saying "Why was I banned?" I always thought you mods give one last PM saying as to why or something like that. I don't really want to find out, but you guys do what you have to do.

[Haruhi]

Tis true, but I only feel that way for the people who were just banned, and came back saying "Why was I banned?" I always thought you mods give one last PM saying as to why or something like that. I don't really want to find out, but you guys do what you have to do.

I guess it depends on the seriousness of the offense. In the case of these three, they fully knew what they were doing was completely unnecassary and unrequired, yet they did it anyway. While a simple warning might've worked, I think temporary banning somebody will show that we mean business when it comes to bypassing censors and/or other obviously serious offenses.

[VidelCoolGirl]

So does bypassing censors include doing things like a$$, b****, "N" word, and things like that? If so, I will admit I've done that before. It's only gone as to say the B word and the A word. Damn I don't think is censored. And I really only use it when I'm RPGing.

I'd rather get this out in the open to you mods. I feel like I should come clean at least, and say what I have done, since others have gotten temp bans, and I never have.

[Haruhi]

No, they didn't just do that. They did something so that curse words appeared on the post, w/out any stars censoring them.

[VidelCoolGirl]

Ah, well then, I haven't done that. I don't even know how to do so.

Well, I am glad to see that all is in the open, and is cleared up now. Lets hope AN can have some peace for the next few days, until something else comes up. I suppose I'll do my best like Char says too, and help out by reporting anyhting I may see that's out of line. Thanks Haruhi for clearing all that up.

[Gannon]

If I may, I just want to say that I think the mods do a great job. Their tact as "just another member" is what makes AN so interesting. It's only natural that every once in a while the moderators have to remind everyone that they are indeed mods. But if this is a sign that the relationship is changing...I don't know. It doesn't bode well for me that's for sure.

[Haruhi]

But if this is a sign that the relationship is changing...I don't know. It doesn't bode well for me that's for sure.

I'd like to think that won't happen. I want all of us to keep our sense of humour. It's more fun that way, you see.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Camille DESERVES, to be banned. While I, nor most of the other members wern't really affected, taking the IRC and banning everyone should not be a "Slap on the ****ing wrist" Stupid bull like this is why the IRC closed down the last time we had one. I've been here a year and a half and have witnessed 2 of his bannings.

Let's run it down:

- You have no right to NOT be banned from IRC.
- It was a joke
- It was ALSO funny as heck, but everyone blew it out of proportion.
- How did he take the IRC? He was an OP for weeks now. That's like saying 12string took over AN.
- And yet the IRC went back to normal hours ago. What did you think would happen? There'd be a permanent split? Hell no, we all knew it'd go back to normal in less than a day.
-I've witnessed one or two of my own bannings and I'm still here.

[Gray]

Let's run it down:

- You have no right to NOT be banned from IRC.
- It was a joke
- It was ALSO funny as heck, but everyone blew it out of proportion.
- How did he take the IRC? He was an OP for weeks now. That's like saying 12string took over AN.
- And yet the IRC went back to normal hours ago. What did you think would happen? There'd be a permanent split? Hell no, we all knew it'd go back to normal in less than a day.
-I've witnessed one or two of my own bannings and I'm still here.



So mods could ban everyone from AN without reason, but Camille can't ban everyone from IRC without reason? How long can you work down there before coming up for air?


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2631/pronsfailmb0.png

[Buicovo]

Spamming is against the rules...bypassing the filter is against the rules.

Think of it like speeding on the highway...just about EVERYONE does it. Does every person who speeds get pulled over? No...the police can't and don't do it...just like EVERY time someone spams they aren't banned even if they should be. It sucks that happens but it does. I've been pulled over multiple times for speeding when I was going as fast as everyone next to me...

And how on Earth is a temp-ban not a warning...its the PERFECT warning. So for 2 days you're gone big deal...lesson learned, don't do it again. Perma bans are not new either...Mr.Gundam...his previous incarnation (Hellmaster Inu was it? I can't remember)...Capeoria...many other extremely active ppl who have since been banned and forgotten.

People on this forum are just spoiled with how few bannings occur...I'm a memeber of another forum where the admins word is law and they can ban for whoever they want for whatever reason they want and if you ask them why...you're banned as well. And you know what? Thats fine with me. I follow the rules, I really don't care why Jane Doe got banned, regardless of how active she was.

Normally Soluzar you are rather thought out in your arguments (whether they be about a social issue or a thread in the Eva forum) but from my POV it seems you are letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement.

[Soluzar]

People on this forum are just spoiled with how few bannings occur...I'm a memeber of another forum where the admins word is law and they can ban for whoever they want for whatever reason they want and if you ask them why...you're banned as well.I don't go there. I would not go there. If this turns into that, I'm hitting that long open road. The staff here don't take their cues from a power-hungry team like that, and the day they start is the day you see my last post. You call it spoiled, I call it "being treated fairly".

Normally Soluzar you are rather thought out in your arguments (whether they be about a social issue or a thread in the Eva forum) but from my POV it seems you are letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement.
Didn't I already admit that? However, not in the way that you probably think. It's not because of who got banned. In any case, I already talked this out to exhaustion, and it's a dead issue now. It freaked me out a bit at first, but I'm over it, and I shouldn't have freaked. Joeshie, Dagoth and Drifter did something stupid, which they shouldn't have done. However, I remain firm in my stance. I'm just going to let the issue die for now, but that does not mean that I would handle things the same way, if it were my call to make.

The other thing that's on my mind is that one of these bans could really be called a case of unfair selective enforcement, and I'm not crazy about that. When I've had a chance to prepare my thoughts a little more, I may have to pay a visit to someone's Inbox, but I have no intentions of bringing anything further up in this topic. The most grave error that I made was not discussing these concerns privately from the start.

Should I have been a bit calmer? Maybe. Do I feel like my overall opinion has really changed? Not a bit. I've just mellowed and decided to forget about it.

[Lemina]

I'm late, well as far as I'm concerned, the basic principles of moderation are about maintaining threads from out getting out of hand on a regular basis, and keeping them safe for everyone while following the basic rules the forum implemented. If such a bad incident occurs where people start flaming, trolling, spamming, etc, you first warn those people on threads if they are showing unsatisfactory behavior. Then, if they continue acting bad and/or make new spam or flame threads, you would go ahead and delete them while sending them a warning via Private Message to stop doing it. If they repeat the same offenses, then you do a more serious warning to stop doing it. Banning, whether they are temporary or permanent are a little to harsh to be implemented without warning, and should be taken as a last resort, especially if they're established members of the forum community. Not that they have more privilages than new members, but still. Of course, an exception would be if they started posting offensive material as it had been done a lot before in the past, and that would be reasonable explanation why they were banned on the spot. Bans are considered delicate and should not be used without warning as it would be an abuse in power.

If you ask me, I thought the temporary bans were a little too harsh to use without warning. For whatever reason, you just don't go and ban someone immediately because they bypassed the censor for enjoying the moment in just one thread. That thread should have been deleted in the first place and then warned them about it!! I saw the thread was still here. In the end, what happened was already done and now its up to the Admin to take care of the situation. Next time please, I know uou MODS can do a better job than this. Please do so in the future!! I'll try my best to report bad material too.

[Haruhi]

I'm late, well as far as I'm concerned, the basic principles of moderation are about maintaining threads from out getting out of hand on a regular basis, and keeping them safe for everyone while following the basic rules the forum implemented. If such a bad incident occurs where people start flaming, trolling, spamming, etc, you first warn those people on threads if they are showing unsatisfactory behavior. Then, if they continue acting bad and/or make new spam or flame threads, you would go ahead and delete them while sending them a warning via Private Message to stop doing it. If they repeat the same offenses, then you do a more serious warning to stop doing it. Banning, whether they are temporary or permanent are a little to harsh to be implemented without warning, and should be taken as a last resort, especially if they're established members of the forum community. Not that they have more privilages than new members, but still. Of course, an exception would be if they started posting offensive material as it had been done a lot before in the past, and that would be reasonable explanation why they were banned on the spot. Bans are considered delicate and should not be used without warning as it would be an abuse in power.

If you ask me, I thought the temporary bans were a little too harsh to use without warning. For whatever reason, you just don't go and ban someone immediately because they bypassed the censor for enjoying the moment in just one thread. That thread should have been deleted in the first place and then warned them about it!! I saw the thread was still here. In the end, what happened was already done and now its up to the Admin to take care of the situation. Next time please, I know uou MODS can do a better job than this. Please do so in the future!! I'll try my best to report bad material too.


Please understand that there are some offenses that result in automatic banning, w/out warning. Stuff like off topicing, minor trolling, even a bit of flaming are tolerable enough so that a warning would be an order. However, to go out of your way and do what the board has set up measures not to do (even encourage), just to show off that you can do it is something I believe deserves something a little more than a slap on the wrist.

Temp bans have been in the system for a while now. It's not anything new. To actually implement it, however, is.

[Jae Hoon]

You can quit with your subtle flamming to Prons.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

You can quit with your subtle flamming to Prons.

I was subtly flamed?

[Jae Hoon]

Yeah dont even try it, you know that comment that I edited to FMH was a flame you tried to disguise.


Just dont even try it period.

[Bernard_Monsha]

I was subtly flamed?


You can quit with your none too subtle flaming as well Prons.

Corrected Jae's typo

[Tiran]

A few points, since I'm showing up late to this. (Spent the weekend at Amecon)

First, we are human, we make mistakes and then have to correct them, thats what happened with Holy Knight.
Second, temp bans have been used before, I temp banned someone a few weeks ago, not usualy so many at once, nor is it usualy advertised that they were used, but they have been.
Third, <3 Haruhi <3 Jae <3 Sharp <3 Bernard.
I get no Soluzar love. =-(
Fourth, anyone with a disagreement with their ban, or with any complaint against any mod is welcome to contact one of the other mods or an admin (Kevin is probably your best choice). Be assured any complaints will be looked at.

[SabakuKuniGaara]

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2631/pronsfailmb0.png

The only good thing from this thread. And not because it's awesome. Because the rest of the thread is absolute nonsense. And no, this is not an attempt at flaming, but the whole topic of why a person is banned should be taken up between the person who got him/herself banned and the admins.

By the way, what the heck is bypassing the censor? Is this "You are an a**hole!" bypassing the censor or would putting spaces in between a s and s so that the word appears be bypassing the censor?

[CrossboneGundam]

I'm not about to pretend I'm intimately familiar with the situation, but a few of the people mentioned thus far had it coming for a looong time. If warnings were sent and disregarded, it seems reasonable to me to give repeat offenders a temporary ban to get the message accross.

Unrelated, but... I didn't think you were into futanari, Tiran. :lol:

[_jwb388_]

Quote Haruhi on 7/10/2004
"This is common sense, but moderators are NOT here to clean up after every one of your issues. We're NOT here to take responsibility for everybody's whims. We're not here to keep a watchful eye on everything. We're not here 24/7, to baby you. As forum going posters, you are ALSO responsibile for what happens here, and what gets out of hand. Don't place the blame on just mods, when things don't go your way. That's not what we're here for. We do our best to keep things in order, clean and as balanced as possible. There are, and always will be times when we miss something. That can't be helped - we're human. We have our own thing to do, outside of the board. However, we still try our best to clean up, just in case things go beyond your own control. Again, that doesn't give you all excuses to let yourself go and do whatever you wish. Things such as flamming, spamming, negative remarks, etc etc should be considered before you press the post button. We can't monitor every little thing that happens, so do NOT let the presence of a moderator make you think you can get away with everything."


MC got warned and banned so he knew he needed to shape up, but he didn't which got him banned(again)

[Smith]

I think this thread has served its purpose, and has become a dead horse. Bans and temp bans are not new, but "advertising" and posting them is new. Do not expect every ban to be posted in the future. I thought it would be a good service to inform the 3 temp-banned people publicy so that they would understand they are being allowed back.
If there are still more issues regarding this or any other manner, feel free to PM any of the S-Mods.
Again, again, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies, with good or bad intentions.