Kirika And Mireille. Thoughts? [Archive]

DocWatson

August 13th, 2006, 08:31 PM

I have to admit, as much as I am of an Kirika/Mireille shipper, (I've been reading Noir Fics out the hizzy) do you think of this coupling as a cannon, or non-cannon couple. Do you think the end of the series somewhat cememneted the idea they could possibly start something, or vice versa?Having just rewatched the last two episodes to look for shoujo ai/yuri, I believe that while there is the possibility that they may start to have romantic feelings for each other, I did not see any indication as of the end of episode 26 that that either of them currently have any for each other (very deep feelings of friendship and comradeship, yes, but no eros or romance). There is no kiss, no declaration of love, not even long, meaningful looks into each other's eyes.
Compare this to Chloe's kissing Kirika (which I note Kirika did not return). Any romantic tension between Kirika and Mireille is, IMHO, entirely unstated subtext.

Animematt55

August 13th, 2006, 08:35 PM

Kirika didn't liek Chloe. I mean, hypothetically....your a lesbian. Your not going to return every random kiss some girl gives you.....
And you don't need to see them kissing, or laying in bed naked with eachother to assume there is a relationship.

VidelCoolGirl

August 13th, 2006, 08:39 PM

Animematt55

August 13th, 2006, 08:41 PM

Man, i wish i could of made it through this series....
Wasn't Chloe trying to like...kill them?

DocWatson

August 13th, 2006, 08:52 PM

Well, Kirika liked Chloe, but not in that way. Chloe's feelings I think were more of a sister, and admiration for Kirika than actual romantic lust. I agree with John here, and say that it COULD happen, but the series leads off so well, you just don't know.To throw out a bit more hope, the Noir Production Note #13 (translated as part of the insert in ADV's volume 7) points out the many unresolved plot threads and plot points, and states

That's why we wil not, at this late date, do something petty like argue this and that about little details.

Because the appeal of this show, Noir, is something each of you, the readers, can determine yourself and that is the way it should be.

What was Noir to you?So we are free to speculate and imagine as we like.

VidelCoolGirl

August 13th, 2006, 08:52 PM

Man, i wish i could of made it through this series....
Wasn't Chloe trying to like...kill them?

Chloe wasn't trying to kill them at first. She was Mireille's "friend" becasue she was Kirika's friend. At the end, Chloe tries to kill both of them at some point, only to die by Kirika's hands.

ZoharContact

August 14th, 2006, 06:39 AM

How about the ending animation? Considering the state of all their stuff being strewn about, and the lyrics to the song, I think that might be proof enough. And there's Kirika's letter, which could be construed as really, really, really strong feelings of friendship, or something else.

Also, I remember reading in the production notes somewhere that the scenario writer is prone to write yuri stories...? Perhaps they simply kept it as open-ended as possible so as not to alienate any possible fans.

Also remember the Intoccabile (sp?) and the "poisonous insect"? They seemed to have some hidden thoughts of their own about the Noir characters. It could actually be that the series is full of Yuri pinings laid right under your nose.

When you think about it hard enough, the hints are actually everywhere:Mireiile chose Kirika over her own uncle, who was like a big brother to her. She also continued to love Kirika, even after learning that she killed her parents.

ArcaJ

August 14th, 2006, 11:00 AM

As Noir was my first fansub to legit purchase, it holds a special place in my heart. I caught the yuri vibes in the first episodes. And before you think I had yuri on the brain I actually didn't know anything about the series at the time.

So, Mireille and Kirika. Yup, they're a couple. Two souls who walked the path of blood and violence only to find their humanity in each other's arms. They saved each other from a fate much worse than death.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

VidelCoolGirl

August 14th, 2006, 12:49 PM

ZoharContact

August 15th, 2006, 06:53 AM

As Noir was my first fansub to legit purchase, it holds a special place in my heart. I caught the yuri vibes in the first episodes. And before you think I had yuri on the brain I actually didn't know anything about the series at the time.I didn't catch it, unfortunately. The first DVD bored me to death. The mystery seemed so contrived. But then I watched the character and background design section in the extras and realized how much work they put in the series, so I gave it another try and I loved it! (I think I was hooked when I saw the episode with the repentant ex-solviet death camp officer. It was so sad!)To be honest, as much as I think it's left wide open at then end, fanfics and doujinshi are my only way to get my K/M fix.Do you have any recommendations? I actually haven't read any.I do find the lyrics to the song a bit...romantic, but aren't most anime endings that way? At least, that's what I told myself. Although watching it closley, when Kirika is looking out the window, is that Mireille in the bed? I can't tell. Here's a screencap for the scene I'm talking about. See? Crap, now I think the ending does say something...or hints it. You AN yuri fanpeople affect me so.Unless they're just animating to some random song, anime openings and endings tend to remain in character for the series. If there is romance in the song, there's probably romance in the series. Both opening and ending seem pretty "in-character" to me.Spoiler:...I loved that song! I need to get the second soundtrack and hope that said song is there. Also, that's my favorite episode. (I love angst too much, honestly.)Man, i wish i could of made it through this series....
Wasn't Chloe trying to like...kill them?You should finish it, Matt. I didn't really like the start of the series, either, but the first DVD is the worst DVD. It gets better and better as it progresses. And after seeing it all, I realized that if you give it thought, everything that looks contradictory can actually fall into place rather nicely.

VidelCoolGirl

August 15th, 2006, 12:06 PM

Do you have any recommendations? I actually haven't read any.

Yes....Yes I do. There is specificly one author who I enjoy the most, and one story which is pretty damn funny, no matter how OOC it may be for the chracters. Any fanfic by Leet911 is a sure win. (http://www.shoujoai.com/authors/leet911) I love this persons fics. They're sad, romantic, all you need for a quick fix of fluff.

The next story I found on FF.net. When A Job Goes Very Wrong (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2375764/1/) makes no sense really, and is all over the place considering Noir, but I loved reading it.

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Chloe is absolutely canon. It wasn't just sisterly love, she was pissed that Merielle was "living with her." Too obvious, the kiss just cements it as fact.

As far as Merielle/Kirika goes its definitely more subtextual, but some people really get on my nerves when they debate the subtext wasn't put in there on purpose.

My own personal interpretation is they actually started doing it somewhere near the beginning/middle of the series. Hence the sleeping in the bed very close to eachother. Its just both of them were so emotionally bankrupt due to multiple factors that the emotional side of it didn't kick into later, and manifested itself in ways such as Kirika's declaration of feelings for her in the letter (even if not plain obvious, "I love you Merielle!") and Merielle going back on her promise to kill her, etc.

Tea is also a common metaphor for sex, if you need even more evidence.

VidelCoolGirl

August 16th, 2006, 06:13 PM

Tea is a metaphor for sex? New to me. I don't know if they slept together, It's hard for me to be convinced it's that deep.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 06:45 PM

tea a metaphor for sex? i believe we have an idiot here....(joking).

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Yeah, I definitely think thats what the writer was aiming for with the tea bit at the end. In fact, in Madlax the same writer and director did something extremely simular with "Would you believe I'm hungry" except made it about twice as obvious and then used it for the butt of a joke when it turned out that she actually prepared a meal for her. I've noticed tea being used as a reference to sex or sexual atraction in anime and western fiction, but I haven't found any documenation of the practice on the net last time I tried to research it.

The references to sex is definitely there with them sleeping in the same bed, back to back. But Noir was something that was made to be multilayered, subtextual, and a bit cryptic so its not going to all spelled out for you. You have to interpret it for yourself and use your brain a bit to read between the lines. I'm not saying you couldn't read something else into the references if you choose, thats why its subtext. But people have to agree at least the suggestion was implanted there on purpose. I seriously doubt the creators made this show to be taken at complete face value. Whether or not Kirika or Merielle were involved I think was very much left up to the descrition of the audience, just like whatever happened at the ending with the two gun shots.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM

Silly boy. Just cause someone is sleepign in the same bed, does not mean sex has taken place at all. The creator said something about making stuff liek that very subtle. He didn't even say if they were canon or not, just let the fans decide. That was what the gunshots were at the ending. TO make the fanboys go "OMG! Dey shots eachother!!!1"
Same thing with them sleeping in the same bed..make the fanboys go "OMG dey are lesbians with each other!"
While i can't say too much on the series, i would say they are definately closer than just partners in crime......
NOTE: i think the ending sounds were just for dramatic effect.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 07:01 PM

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 07:05 PM

animeotaku99

August 16th, 2006, 07:18 PM

I dont think their relationship is canon but I do believe that Kirika did get a special place in Mirielle's heart. And there was that one episode with the painter that Kirika grow to like. I will admitt that the two are close by the end but they did NOT have sex during the series and "lets go have some tea" isnt not lesbain sex either.

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 07:23 PM

I am mocking you. Tea does not mean sex. Now if they were to go out for tacos...then i might agree with that.
But, i have been in the same bed with guys, and girls. Doesn't mean we had sex.....
Like I said, it was never ment to be known if they are canon. But I definately see them as mch more than friends.

"Tea does not mean sex." I didn't say it always meant sex and probably not usually, but you're going to have to prove to me you know more about allegory in literature to say its never been used that way.

The bed thing could be interprted either way, which is my point. If there was no reference there, they would've just got two beds which would obviously be the more normal thing to do. I mean its not like they were as close as brother and sister or anything.

And stop calling my names like idiot and silly boy. You can tell me something without making me want to slap the **** out of you.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 07:24 PM

"Tea does not mean sex." I didn't say it always meant sex and probably not usually, but you're going to have to prove to me you know more about allegory in leterature to say its never been used that way.

The bed thing could be interprted either way, which is my point. If there was no reference there, they would've just got two beds which would obviously be the more normal thing to do. I mean its not like they were as close as brother and sister or anything.

And stop calling my names like idiot and silly boy. You can tell me something without making me want to slap the **** out of you.
Well didn't they once push two twin beds together? That is kinda suspicious to me.

VidelCoolGirl

August 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM

Man, I gotta pay more attention to the episodes, or turn my volume up higher. I had to watch it again to catch the last part. I really hope they didnt do what I thought they did.

ArcaJ

August 17th, 2006, 09:19 AM

Man, I gotta pay more attention to the episodes, or turn my volume up higher. I had to watch it again to catch the last part. I really hope they didnt do what I thought they did.

Don't sweat it. I've always thought it was a metaphor for their relationship. you know killing their past lives so they can be together in the future.
Then again I AM wearing my Yuri Goggles right now :naughty:

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

ZoharContact

August 17th, 2006, 11:00 AM

If you like theory and analysis, I have some for you. Let me just say first that the ending animation seems very highly indicative of Kirika and Mireille's lives (and relationships) continuing past the end of the series. For one, where did all those playful-looking novelties come from (the miniature traffic light, etc.)? And Kirika was smiling! Also...I don't think there's any implication that they have sex during the series. You don't have sex with someone and THEN leave a note saying, "Before I die, I just want you to know that I love you!" Any yuri relationship, I would say, takes place after the series is over.

Then, the two gunshots and the broken watch... I think they represent the moment the watch broke, because at that moment, the Kirika that had no name ("Anta," "that girl," "Noir," basically the multiple personality that showed itself in the Soldats village episode.) died. We learn in the series that the name Kirika, even though fake, has a special meaning to her, and the only one who called her by that name was Mireille. The other way she referred to her, before that, was "anta," which is basically a slightly hostile second-person pronoun.

I think that, later in the series, Mireille catches on to Kirika's multiple personality disorder, because even when they become friendly enough for her to call Kirika by name, she still says, "Anta wo korosu." (I'll kill "you.") Basically, she was saying she would kill the Kirika who had no name, curing her. Thus, when the watch broke, and Kirika came to her senses, it was the end of her disorder, symbolized in the ending by the gunshots.^_^ I love this series so. Edit: By the way, in case you have any confusion about the second person pronoun, a little culture note. In Japanese, subject pronouns or names can almost always be left out of the sentence. So, in a situation like Noir, the differences between the name "Kirika" and the subject pronoun "anta" can be very significant. Of course, it's not always significant, but in a series like Noir that places such heavy significance on the name Kirika, it is very notable.

VidelCoolGirl

August 17th, 2006, 02:20 PM

Dinco

August 17th, 2006, 06:31 PM

Animematt55

August 17th, 2006, 07:02 PM

Thats a very interesting analysis. It would explain the watch for sure and perhaps Merielle's "I'm going to kill you", but I'm not as swayed by the part about the gunshots.

As for the sex, I think point would be they were having sex minus love, which I think is a very realistic concept. Why else would they push their two beds together as mentioned before?
to get fanboys thinking about them rubbing tacos.
sex, just for sex? Women do such a thing? :rolleyes: It didn't seem to me like they were as clsoe as if they were having sex....
Were they sleeping naked together? spooning?

Dinco

August 17th, 2006, 07:31 PM

sex, just for sex? Women do such a thing?
Have you ever been out of your house?

to get fanboys thinking about them rubbing tacos.
Noir is not a fan-service anime. Everything was done in Noir for a reason, and no the reason you gave is not a good one.

What would be the other explanation they pushed the beds together so they could just do some extracurricular cuddling?

Animematt55

August 17th, 2006, 07:36 PM

Have you ever been out of your house?

Noir is not a fan-service anime. Everything was done in Noir for a reason, and no the reason you gave is not a good one.

What would be the other explanation they pushed the beds together so they could just do some extracurricular cuddling?
first off all...i was joking, hence the smiley....
Second....not cuddling...heavy petting...it is almsot like sex with your clothes on.

Again....are they ever shown sleeping naked together?

VidelCoolGirl

August 17th, 2006, 09:08 PM

I also think they're not having sex. Number one, Kirika doesn't seem to be the kind of person to do something like that right off the bat, same for Mireille. They sleep in the same bed, but they're never shown cuddling or anything are they? They're always sleeping on other sides of the bed. I don't think they have a sexual relationship, but they have a deep one.

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 07:30 AM

Zohar....I love you SO much. That by far is the best analysis of the ending I've heard so far. And I suppose Kirika would be one to love a mini traffic light. And then we could analyze the fact that I THINK Kirika is naked in the ending, but like I said, Yuri goggles, I might be reading into it too much.Why, thank you. I'm glad you liked it. Also, I thought she was naked, too, and since she and Mireille are staying in the same condo/whatever, it would imply that she can be naked around Mireille comfortably.And the fact that if you want to look at the ending, they're not in the usual apartment are they? Arent they like, near a beach in the ending? Unless I'm mistaken, it could have meant they moved or something.They had to move somewhere, anyway...Considering their apartment was shot to pieces.And about giving it up... I'd like to think they did, and that Kirika maybe even took up painting again, but I would say having a gun on the table is implying that they didn't.Also, remember when Mireille meets the Soldats head honcho? He said, "Do you intend to fight the world, alone?" And Mireille said in response "Not necessarily alone." Although, that doesn't guarrantee that they would fight the Soldats after the series is over. They seemed to part on semi-amiable terms, after all.Man, this series would rock if it had a second season. Never would happen, but still.

God, I love this series way too much too. Its now in my top five...at least in spot 2 now. I love analyzing this series.It's definitely my favorite. ^_^ I like series that don't do the thinking for you.Thats a very interesting analysis. It would explain the watch for sure and perhaps Merielle's "I'm going to kill you", but I'm not as swayed by the part about the gunshots.I figure it's because they're played in juxtaposition with the watch that they represent that moment. The first one (Kirika's gun) would be the moment where she attacks. The second is metaphorical, in that breaking the watch was the catalyst that killed Kirika's other self. Also, it could be just my imagination, since gun sounds are typically static, but doesn't Kirika's gunshot seem kind of... weak/wavering? In direct contrast with Mireille's gunshot. Of course, it seems they always did sound like that.One last thing, though... was the watch fixed/working in the ending animation?

VidelCoolGirl

August 18th, 2006, 10:00 AM

I had to go check and see what condition the watch was in in the ending, because I never really paid all that much attention to it.
http://www.stormpages.com/tomoyo/end/03.jpg

So that's the only thing holding me back. There's not that great of a shot of it, and judgg by the way it looks, it seems fixed. I'm not sure of the time frame that Kirika and Mireille are together, but that would mean it would be at some point before the watch was broken, or it could be a new one, since I don't think the watch ever had beads on it like that.

And did either of them have a gun at the end? I know Mireille dropped her when she didn't shoot Altena, and I'm not sure if Kirika had hers when she was hanging from the lava pool. I assume both were weaponless. I could be wrong though, and just didn't pay enough attention.

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 10:45 AM

Behold the reconciling power of the yuri goggles:Kirika could have stowed her weapon in one of her many hidden pockets while she was hanging there (or bought another Berreta?...sp?). Mireille could easily have picked hers up on the way out, and they could have fixed the watch for sentimental value. Thus, one can only conclude that the ending animation DOES take place after the series is over, and there ISN'T any glaring oversight in assuming so. Yep.Anyway, more than anything else, I would like to use the cute knick-knacks in the ending animation as my chronological anchors. There's no way Kirika would've had the peace of mind to buy cute novelties before the end of the series, right? Right. (Actually, I could allow for an oversight or two. The ending animation was made at the beginning of a 26 episode series, anyway.)

My apologies for the gushing. I am truly a Noir nut.

VidelCoolGirl

August 18th, 2006, 11:02 AM

So am I. So am I. I'm watching the episode where Mireille tells Kirika to leave now. So sweet. That could make a lot of sense, since Kirika has a habit of pulling weapons out at the most random times. Although the teddy bear at the end, that's Mireille's. You know the teddy she has when she's a kid? Same one.

And although I would have to watch the series all over again to see if they have any of that stuff already, if not, then you sir are correct.

I'm going to assume it takes place at the end of the series too. I don't care, I wanna believe that they live happily ever after in their happy shoujo-ai filled world. Nothing will break me away from that. Did you also get a chance to read those fics I posted? They are crakalackin good.

Edit: I watched it again, and you're right. They never refrer to Kirika as Kirika, only as "she" or "her." Even Chloe. I wonder if this is because that's not her real name, and so they don't call her that. Mireille only knows her as Kirika, so that's why she's the only one to call ger that.

DocWatson

August 18th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Berreta?...sp?"Beretta (http://www.beretta.it/)"; the Model 1934 (http://www.berettaweb.com/armi/Beretta%20mod%201934%20&%201935.htm).

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 12:12 PM

I haven't read the fanfics yet, but I aim to. Thank you very much for the recommendations. ^_^ For the moment, though, I really need to work on the Akai Ito translation.

Since they know the name is fake, they assume it to be worthless. (Not really a spoiler. She knew it was a forgery from the beginning.) They figure that Kirika, being known and revered as "Noir," doesn't need a name, which shows how ignorant they are of her feelings.Mireille, on the other hand, comes to realize, as time passes, that the ID card is Kirika's most precious item, even though she knows it's fake. She first shares that thought in earnest in the desert episode (the one where she used the card as a weapon).

Also, in the episode where Mireille kicks Kirika out (known by many as the "toy truck episode," hehe), she learns that she forgot her gun and her ID. When they meet again, Mireille hands Kirika her ID, and in the episodes following that, she starts calling Kirika by name, for the first time.So, remember that Mireille doesn't use the name "Kirika" either, until later. Actually, there is a lot of animosity in their relationship when they first meet."Beretta"; the Model 1934.Thank you. Those double consonants always throw me off. Long live the English! ...er, Italian... language...

VidelCoolGirl

August 18th, 2006, 12:47 PM

*Sigh* I need to just watch the series again, even though I just finished it, because watching the beggining episodes, I find you are correct.
I more so assumed that the ID card was Kirika's most cherished item, because in a way, it made her a person, rather than just a name, (I.E Noir) I think more than anything, Kirika wanted to have a normal life, and be more than a name, so the ID card is her only way of believing that, as fake as it may be.

All this is even more reason Kirika is my favorite character. May be cliche yes, but I can't help it but to love her character. It's so well drawn out, that it's enjoyable to see her in action. Plus, she's really cute when she eats Ice Cream.

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 01:40 PM

All this is even more reason Kirika is my favorite character. May be cliche yes, but I can't help it but to love her character. It's so well drawn out, that it's enjoyable to see her in action. Plus, she's really cute when she eats Ice Cream.It's funny how that ice cream scene seems to stick in everyone's mind. It's such a rare vision of Kirika's cuteness, it's like Noir's version of fanservice. I really like how she was following Mireille around like a puppy (in the episode where she first calls Kirika by name).

Also, probably one of the things that left people the most confused was the way she would sometimes stare at people before she killed them. I found it very interesting, though, because it seemed like a masochistic curious habit of hers. My theory regarding that habit is that she's searching inside herself for some measure of remorse about what she's doing. (Which is why she cries, even as she says, "I can kill people so easily, but why don't I feel sad?" Because she doesn't feel remorse even when she tries to.) This little habit is especially meaningful in the episode, "Season of Hell," in DVD 4.

Most people probably snort with derision during those moments, but for someone like me who overthinks things, I always find it fascinating to ask myself "What's she thinking right now?" during moments like those.

By the way, if you like Noir, I would heavily recommend .hack//SIGN. It's in much the same vein, but the action isn't nearly as compelling, which is why everybody hates it. (It also has a yuri couple, though much more concrete than in Noir.) Anyway, I really like Tsukasa!

VidelCoolGirl

August 18th, 2006, 02:10 PM

I was wondering that also when I was watching it today. My mom came in while the episode was on. (The episode with the man and his daughter, and the daughter wants to stay for her birthday) And there was that whole scene of them starring each other down before she shoots him. My mom was all like "Why are they just starring at each other? When are they gonna do something?"

I think it is just her trying to figure out why exactly is she killing this person, and does she feel anything for it. Most of the time, you assume she doesn't.

Although I think Mireille has more of a consience when it comes to killing certain people. She couldn't even kill Altena in the end. Even though she said "you dont even deserved to be killed." there are certain people Mireille can't kill. Along with Kirika.

I really can't get over how cute Kirika is. I don't know why, but in the fifth episode, when Mireille is starring down the watch by the plant, and Kirika suddenly appears and says "Ohaiyo." That made me laugh, it wasn't really funny, but it's nice to see that Kirika still has that aspect of her personality where she is a "girl" to a point, then has that ruthless killing side of her too.

And I mean, the cone was sticking out of her mouth for goodness sake! I need to remember what episode that was in so I can get a pic of that. What I would give for that animation cel. (Even though cels arent used as much anymore.) And she always says "There we go" when she sets something down or someting to that effect. It's too cute.

I shold see .Hack soon enough. I've heard good things about it. And it has a yuri couple. Hell, I'm all for it then.

But then I got to thinking, although it is pretty trivial. How old is the main cast? By that I mean Kirika, Mireille, and Chloe? I figure Kirika is like 16 or so, and Mireille would be a couple years older than Kirika, so like 18. I can't figure Chloe out though...same age as Kirika or younger? Becasue the way the series makes it, it';s like shes a kid of some sorts.

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 03:16 PM

The way I see it, Mireille doesn't want to kill Altena because that's exactly what Altena wants. Instead, she wanted to beat Altena's ideal that hatred saves. In Altena's viewpoint, Noir should be able to kill anyone, whether that person is dear to them, defenseless, or otherwise. Killing Altena would allow both Mireille and Kirika to leave unharmed... but Kirika instead chose to kill herself along with Altena. Then she was saved by Altena, which probably shows that they proved their point.

Also, I got the impression that Kirika, Mireille, and Chloe were all very close in age, judging from the flashback sequence that shows all three of them together. Furthermore, Kirika's Japanese, and Japanese people almost always look far younger than they are, or rather... younger than most westerners who are the same age. I'd like to know what Chloe's ethnicity is, though.You seem like the kind of person that would like .hack//SIGN. The relationship is very heartwarming, and is arguably the focus of the series. (In fact, thinking on it, I have to wonder exactly how much made it to television. Not that it's a mature relationship or anything, but it looked like it must have taken a hit in the editing department.)

Also, I think Kajiura's music is best in SIGN. The See-Saw tracks are fantastic. (Yasashii Yoake is my favorite song of all time, probably followed closely by Tasogare no Umi and Senya Ichiya.)

VidelCoolGirl

August 18th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Well, there are a lot of diffrent series of .Hack, so any certain one I should watch for that?

All I can say is I absolutly love Noir. Such a great series. And I was joking round with a friend of mine, and we were talking about if Noir had been made a humor series instead, (One of the interviews with the Japanese cast had her say she would like to see the "alternate" Noir, with the opposite personalities of the cast.) I could only imagine the possibilities. Of course, that's what OOC fanfics are for.

As far as the series go, do you have a certain song that's a favorite of yours? The version of Canta Per Me as sung by "Kirika" is one of my favs. Kirika sounds cute when she sings. And the lullaby song that plays when Mireille is looking for Kirika. Great song also.

ZoharContact

August 18th, 2006, 08:56 PM

Well, there are a lot of diffrent series of .Hack, so any certain one I should watch for that?SIGN. As far as I'm concerned, SIGN, and LIMINALITY (I guess), are the only worthwhile series for .hack. It could be that LIMINALITY was saved by Kajiura-sensei's music, though. To be fair, I never saw UDEWA (Legend of the Twilight Bracelet), though I read a volume of the manga. I played the first four games (interesting story, though not worth wading through countless hours of mind-numbing dungeon crawling), but I didn't play the newest... what was it? G.U.? ...And I don't plan to. I didn't read the novel, either.

To put it succinctly, I like the series directed by Mashimo (Bee Train's main director, who also did Noir). He may have directed UDEWA, but I'm honestly afraid to find out. In other words, I only like .hack//SIGN.(One of the interviews with the Japanese cast had her say she would like to see the "alternate" Noir, with the opposite personalities of the cast.) I could only imagine the possibilities.That was Mitsuishi Kotono (Mireille) talking. (She's so cool! I really like her.) Far more than a "what if" episode, though, I'd just like to see the happy aftermath. ...Well, okay, I'll admit that I would like to have seen Chloe take something other than that crazy green cloak out of the wardrobe, among other things. Honestly, though, like you say, if only they had another season...As far as the series go, do you have a certain song that's a favorite of yours? The version of Canta Per Me as sung by "Kirika" is one of my favs. Kirika sounds cute when she sings. And the lullaby song that plays when Mireille is looking for Kirika. Great song also.I'll go out and say that my favorite was that lullaby song. Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to hear the whole song. I also like Canta per Me (the original), Salva Nos 2 (first played for the "toy truck episode"), Salva Nos (I got tired of hearing it during the series but, listening to it off the CD, I realize that it's a great song), Corsican Corridor (full version), Liar You Lie (likewise), among so many others. Also, from the vocal CD, I really liked Black Hands and Red Claws (it was named something like that), and the song sung by Hisakawa Aya (redux of Chloe's theme).

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 12:18 AM

Yeah, I say pretty much the whole frekin OST was great. I tried to look for it to by it, but to no cigar. ( I mean all three CD's) So I just got the torrent file. I would buy it though. I can't get out of my Noir funk though. I've been watching it over and over again. Even with Snakes On A Place in my mind, (Just saw it) I wanna see Noir.

*Imagines a Noir Version of SOAP* No...No...maybe for a fanfic. Although if it did happen, I would certainly be the first to see it, even if it was the dub.

Seaking of dubs, what did you think of the voices for Kirika and Mireille? Mireille's wasn't that bad, but kirika's seemed a bit to much for me. As if she was trying to sound all cute and innocent. The Japanese VA had a much easier time obviously doing the voice, The dub wasn't bad, since I first saw Noir on Anime Demand in the dub, but could have been a lot better.

ZoharContact

August 19th, 2006, 08:55 AM

Even with Snakes On A Place in my mind, (Just saw it) I wanna see Noir.I'm going to see that today. ^_^*Imagines a Noir Version of SOAP*SOAP? ...As in a Noir soap opera...?

As for dubs... I don't even entertain the thought of watching ADV dubs anymore. I saw a promo for the first episode, though, and I don't remember it sounding horribly bad. ...Except for one thing. They pronounced Mireille as "Miriul"! Honestly, if they had given five minutes of thoughtful effort to the task, they probably would have known the correct pronunciation.

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 09:41 AM

I'm going to see that today. ^_^SOAP? ...As in a Noir soap opera...?

As for dubs... I don't even entertain the thought of watching ADV dubs anymore. I saw a promo for the first episode, though, and I don't remember it sounding horribly bad. ...Except for one thing. They pronounced Mireille as "Miriul"! Honestly, if they had given five minutes of thoughtful effort to the task, they probably would have known the correct pronunciation.
SOAP = Snakes on a Plane.....
Mireilli: "You, we must join the mile high club"
Kirika: "But there are snakes in there"
Mireille: *pulls out gun* I am sick of these mother****ing snakes on this mother****ign plane"

ok....i am bad at this....
At the end of movie
Mireille: "ok, lets go have some tea...by which I mean sex of course..."

ZoharContact

August 19th, 2006, 11:06 AM

At the end of movie
Mireille: "ok, lets go have some tea...by which I mean sex of course..."I thought "tea" meant "sake." <_<

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 11:37 AM

I thought "tea" meant "sake." <_<
i was joking....someone mentioned earlier that tea is a metaphor for sex....

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 11:42 AM

SOAP = Snakes on a Plane.....
Mireilli: "You, we must join the mile high club"
Kirika: "But there are snakes in there"
Mireille: *pulls out gun* I am sick of these mother****ing snakes on this mother****ign plane"

ok....i am bad at this....
At the end of movie
Mireille: "ok, lets go have some tea...by which I mean sex of course..."

:lol::lol: See? The dub would have been so much better if it was done like that. I could actually imagine Mireille saying something like that on a plane. When they were on that plane in like the 19th episode or something, there should have been something like that.

Anyway, yeah, I'm not much of a fan of dubs in paticular anyway. (Dragonball, Kino's Journey are okay) But to be honest, it was the dub that made me shy away for quite some time. I saw about 5 episodes of the dub and then stopped for some months, only to pick it up again eventually.

Mireille's voice sounded too "white" to me. I mean no offense, but it was as if she was trying to sound a bit french and stuff, but just ruined it in the process. I found the best voice to be Chloe actually, since her voice in the Japanese was just like a kid of sorts.

And as far as fandom goes, I've found a lot of fanart and I also found the Noir Artbook, and some wicked scans. It's funny how now this is a Noir Thread, and only us three are posting in it. I don't want it to die though, I've gotta find these pics and post them.

KingNe!

August 19th, 2006, 11:43 AM

I don't think Mirielle and Kirika had a lesbian relationship. There bond was a little bit past that level.

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 11:44 AM

Videl...Mireille is french....so the dub probably tried to give her a slight french accent.
I didn't really notice any accent in the japanese, but i never really paid much attention to the series.

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 11:48 AM

Videl...Mireille is french....so the dub probably tried to give her a slight french accent.
I didn't really notice any accent in the japanese, but i never really paid much attention to the series.

Well, I know she's french, why she's in France...and speaks fluent Japanese....But yeah, In the dub, they fail at makinf her sound a TAD bit french. The Japanese kinda does it, way better than the dub does.

Levon

August 19th, 2006, 01:12 PM

She doesn't have even a slight french accent AT ALL in the dub. I'v seen the show like 3 times dubbed, I love the dub.

http://dubreview.com/readreview.php?reviewid=00000077

"The quality of the actual show is up for debate among anime fans, but the dub has certainly proven itself to be a fine piece of work. I first watched this series in Japanese and was on the fence as to whether I liked it or not, but after watching it in English I can honestly say that I enjoyed the show a lot more. ADV put a lot of hard work into this dub, and the end result is something I hope to see more of from them in the future."

http://img95.echo.cx/img95/3374/noir32di.gif

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 01:14 PM

That's what I said...although you didn't say I didn't say that...But yeah, I didn't like the dub too much, although I'm always more partial to the original anyway, so those are just my prejiduces. Except For Kino.

P.S. Levon, you need to make an Avatar of Kirika eating the ice cream cone. You know, with it sticking out of her mouth? I've been wanting that as an avatar for so long.

Levon

August 19th, 2006, 01:16 PM

P.S. Levon, you need to make an Avatar of Kirika eating the ice cream cone. You know, with it sticking out of her mouth? I've been wanting that as an avatar for so long.

What episode is that in?

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 01:22 PM

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9410/09fc3.jpg

How is that NOT cute? Anyone who disagrees is wrong and an idiot. God, I love that episode. It's episode 9 by the way. PM it to me so nobody takes it before I do.

P.S. Viewing this board, supposedly there's supposed to be anotehr season of Noir. Go http://animeboards.com/showthread.php?t=34690 there, and see the thread. Although I'm still skeptical. Im trying to find the source he linked. If I find it, I'll link to it. Although I doubt it'l happen. You know how rumors float about. Would be cool though.

As taken from the forum: "Apparently, in the NewType artbook for Noir, an interview with Houko Kuwashima within the book confirmed that a sequel/second season is in the works. Lesbian gunslinging action fans, rejoice"

I doubt this is true, since it was reported by a bunch of fanpeople, but supposedly it was implied. I wouldn't mind an OVA or Movie, but seeing as to how Noir came out in 2001, I doubt anything will happen. In fact, it won't happen. Curses.

shezaei_neko

August 19th, 2006, 07:19 PM

And OVA would be great.....but as you said, it won't happen.... :'(
Btw, I totally support Kirika x Mireille.
I almost cry in the last episode.....

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 07:46 PM

I almost cried too. I don't cry durring anime usually, but the last few episodes were epescially sweet.

As promised, here's your fanart.
http://take0.s18.xrea.com/illust/pbbs050216.png
http://take0.s18.xrea.com/illust/pbbs050219a.png

Want more?

ZoharContact

August 19th, 2006, 09:11 PM

i was joking....someone mentioned earlier that tea is a metaphor for sex....I was joking, too. Evidently in edited Tenshi dubs, "tea" means "sake." I was really young when I saw it, actually, so I was really, really confused. The scene stayed in my head until I aged and finally discovered what it meant. It just came to me out of the blue, and I only saw it once. (Talk about an impressionable kid. -_-; )

As far as OVAs are concerned, I understand I'll just have to be content with fanfics and my imagination... although thinking about what Kirika and Mireille were actually going to do (in an occupational sense) just throws my mind in circles.

I'd like to think they quit the whole assassin thing. Maybe Kirika would become a painter and Mireille would become a florist?

...

In a way, a setup like that has morbid undertones, doesn't it? I guess that can't be helped. It's Noir.

Oh, and very cute pictures, Videl. Thanks. ^_^

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Yeah, this site is full of them. (http://take0.s18.xrea.com/illust_f.htm) It's worth a run through. That guys a great artist.

I'd like to think they quit being assasins too. Kirika in a homely sense is too cute to ignore. But alas, that's what fandom is for. I would still rather see Them both become police women. Then it could turn into a darker version of You're Under Arrest.

And anyway, it's kinda hard to continue on with the series. It left off in a good way, (except we all want to know what happens to them) but where could the series go if there was a second series?

Levon

August 19th, 2006, 09:30 PM

That artist is great!:wub:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7356/pbbs040307vf7.pnghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1186/pbbs030911asy7.png

Yummy.

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM

Is Levon becoming a Yuri fan? First a yuri avatar...now this...

Levon

August 19th, 2006, 09:40 PM

I'v always liked yuri-_-; But yeah, looking at that post with that avatar makes me look like a yuri freak:P

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 09:42 PM

come to the light...or is it dark?...Side

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 10:22 PM

It's the light side, Yaoi is the dark side. Yuro/Shoujo-Ai is great. Actually, Im more of a fan of the romantic stuff, not the sex stuff. Kirika/Mireille jsut became my new fav "couple" though. And I cant wait to see that avatar Levon. New Noir ones! Woot!

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 10:23 PM

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 10:27 PM

I didnt say I didn't like H/M anymore, they got me into shoujo-ai, it'sjsut right now, I'm a Kirika and Mireille fangirl. You never send me doujins....you say you will but dont.

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 10:30 PM

I didnt say I didn't like H/M anymore, they got me into shoujo-ai, it'sjsut right now, I'm a Kirika and Mireille fangirl. You never send me doujins....you say you will but dont.
you need a faster internet and file transfer of course....Silly Videl.
Plus i formated my laptop and lost them all <_<

VidelCoolGirl

August 19th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Meh. More pics. Not by that one guy though, diffrent site.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9707/030315lp5.gif
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8828/sarugvw8.gif
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5410/setubunkz6.jpg

Animematt55

August 19th, 2006, 10:40 PM

XD lovely Lum parody

VidelCoolGirl

August 20th, 2006, 01:16 PM

Yeah I liked that one. Anyway, since I still want Zohar to post here, lets get this back on track. What were some of your favorite quotes or scenes from Noir? Either dramatic or humorus.

ZoharContact

August 20th, 2006, 02:34 PM

Yeah I liked that one. Anyway, since I still want Zohar to post here, lets get this back on track. What were some of your favorite quotes or scenes from Noir? Either dramatic or humorus."Koko wa anata no kuru tokoro dewa nai." (You shouldn't have come here.)
-Kirika, ep. 25. Why? I don't really know. -_-; Because I'm a fiend for angst, I guess.

"Nikushimi wa keshite hito wo sukui wa shinai." (Hatred can never save anyone.)
-Saying the origins of that quote would be a spoiler...

Favorite episode: Episode 22... I think. Basically, the one where Kirika and Mireille meet in the graveyard... after Chloe gives Kirika "the final guidance."

Another scene I really like: The letter, of course. ^_^

Scene where I think Kirika is most badass: Soldats village episode.

VidelCoolGirl

August 20th, 2006, 04:14 PM

Hmm.....

Favorite Quote: "That's Why I Told You!" -Mireille, when Kirika's painter friend gets shot. It made me also wonder what heppened to her that would make her so uptight about it.

Favorite Episode: Cross Bewteen the "Toy Truck Episode" and the Intoccable. That woman scared the crap out of me, so tough!

Favorite Scenes: The Letter, (Duh) The Ice Cream Bit, The same episode when Kirika gets her hair cut. The shootout between Kirika and Mireille.

Best Death: When Kirika grabs the man's tie in the 1st episode, and then hangs him.

And Kirika is always badass, even when she doesn't mean to be.

ArcaJ

August 20th, 2006, 04:56 PM

Hmm.....

Favorite Quote: "That's Why I Told You!" -Mireille, when Kirika's painter friend gets shot. It made me also wonder what heppened to her that would make her so uptight about it.
That was the first episode I actually cried after watching. :crybaby:

Probably that friend Mireille lost from Episode 3. The one she was buying flowers for. An assassin can't have friends afterall. They have a habit of getting killed.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

ZoharContact

August 20th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Favorite Quote: "That's Why I Told You!" -Mireille

Favorite Episode: Cross Bewteen the "Toy Truck Episode" and the Intoccable. That woman scared the crap out of me, so tough!I forgot to add that quote by Mireille. I was definitely thinking about it. And I really liked the "toy truck episode" (I remember the original name, now: "Yami no Naka," or "in the midst of darkness."). That might be coming in a close second.

Edit:
Probably that friend Mireille lost from Episode 3. The one she was buying flowers for. An assassin can't have friends afterall. They have a habit of getting killed.Now that I think of it, that sounds exactly right.

Ah, and that reminds me of another quote: "People like us shouldn't visit graves. We tend to fall into them ourselves." -Mireille

"Yondeiru no ne? Watashitachi... acchi kara..." (They're calling us, aren't they? From the other side...) -Belladonna lady

shezaei_neko

August 20th, 2006, 09:01 PM

Mireille as a florist and Kirikia as a painter....
That kinda sounded like Weiss Krauz (or whatever is written)......
But yeah, it could be a good idea.....BTW, great fanarts!! ;)

VidelCoolGirl

August 20th, 2006, 09:16 PM

Fanarts are great.

Yeah, I think it would be the man she was visiting the grave of in the 3rd episode. That was also one of my favorite episodes because both Kirika and Mireille are so unusual from their darker personalities that get shown later in the series. I loved the way Kirika said she wanted Popcorn, and Mireille just got this giant eyed confused look on her face.

shezaei_neko

August 20th, 2006, 09:31 PM

OH!! That part is one of my favorites!!
Mireille's face is priceless!!! ^_^

ArcaJ

August 21st, 2006, 08:42 AM

ZoharContact

August 21st, 2006, 09:11 AM

BTW: Does anyone notice Mireille being much freindlier to women in genral. Even ones she's supposed to kill.

Mireille with female target: How was your day? Would you like some tea? Let's chat awhile about relationships before I have to kill you.

Mireille with male target: Ciao! *BANG!* :naughty:

::HUGS::

Arca JethThe female characters are the main characters, though. In Noir, the Albert Dux's and the Chu's and other people don't really stick in your mind, whereas the belladonna lady, Silvana (Intoccabile), and Shao Li (Poison insect) do.

If you ask me, the latter two even show yuri tendencies towards the main characters. So, the female characters get a neat character design, a killing gimmick, and even a chance at some last words. Of course, this excludes most of the nuns in the last episode.

By the way, I thought Marennes (nun with sword) was the greatest minor antagonist in the series. She was really cool!

ArcaJ

August 21st, 2006, 10:17 AM

By the way, I thought Marennes (nun with sword) was the greatest minor antagonist in the series. She was really cool!

Yeah, she renewed my healthy fear of nuns that I learned in school. :P

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

VidelCoolGirl

August 21st, 2006, 04:46 PM

The last nun was awesome. And the only one who actually considered wearing a bullet-proof vest. Which would have saved Kirika and Mireille much time and pain. But then there would be no angst, and Zohar wouldn't like Noir as much.

The show is mostly women, so yeah, most of the time they have more of character depth to them than most of the male cronies. Plus, men suck at shooting in Noir.

shezaei_neko

August 21st, 2006, 07:32 PM

I remember that Nun. She was awesome!! And very clever to use that thing!!
The only men that were "interesting" were the ones that served Silvana-sama. Too bad they died so quickly..... :P

ZoharContact

August 21st, 2006, 08:54 PM

The last nun was awesome. And the only one who actually considered wearing a bullet-proof vest. Which would have saved Kirika and Mireille much time and pain. But then there would be no angst, and Zohar wouldn't like Noir as much.Let's propose that Mireille wore a bullet-proof vest. Altena would probably notice (seeing as Mireille's clothing would make it all too noticeable) and aim for the head. I don't think Kirika's tall enough to solve that problem. The angst would remain.

...No, I take that back. There is no "problem" that Kirika cannot "solve."The show is mostly women, so yeah, most of the time they have more of character depth to them than most of the male cronies. Plus, men suck at shooting in Noir."Only imperial storm troopers can be so precise..."? To give the Parisien Knights the benefit of the doubt, though, it becomes evident, later in the series, that Kirika can dodge bullets. Without even seeing where they're coming from (presumably). You can see that fairly clearly in episode where they go to Australia in search of the Langonel Manuscript (when Kirika and Chloe take on a large group of Soldats).

She can also, probably, sense killing intent. You can see that in the "toy truck episode." How else could she find her way straight to that guy? I found it very interesting that the creators hinted Kirika as being slightly above "mundane," without any commentary or explanations by other characters. No other series has really done that, in my experience. (Of course, I may be over-thinking things.)

Once again, Zohar shows her powers of rationalization. ^_^ (Edit: Or is it reconciliation?)

...Then again, Mireille can't really claim the same excuse, can she? She tends to avoid those close calls, though. At least, more than Kirika does.

VidelCoolGirl

August 21st, 2006, 09:03 PM

I dunno. I think most of the time, Mireille gets into tight spots way more than Kirika does. She more so avoids them, but she often gets caught in the process. She kicks the guys *** and then shoots them, but all the same.

Kirika has a sixth sense when it comes to fighting...I mean, that's why I don't thik they were killed in the last episode by the Soldats...if she can doge bulletes and all that, neither would have been able to be killed by them. They would have been badass and doged them, and killed them. (Except there were only two shots, so that couldn't have happened).

I was always amazed how she just KNEW something was going to happen. That scene where she killed the guy with a pickaxe. How did she know he was there? We don't know, all we know is that Kirika is a force to be reckoned with. Because she will defintly bust a cap into somebody's ***.

Which is why even though Chloe and Kirika are true Noir, I will never believe it. Kirika and Mireille are the perfect balance...They are truly Noir...In My dreams...

ZoharContact

August 21st, 2006, 09:43 PM

Also, the two shots came from their own guns. The first from Kirika, the second from Mireille. Suggesting they were shot by the Soldats is pretty far out there. For one, it's more notable that Kirika and Mireille didn't kill the lot of them. Two, they had offered Mireille a position in their fold if she killed Altena. (And, while she didn't, it's just as well...)

As for the True Noir, I definitely agree. Chloe and Kirika (or rather, the other Kirika) are basically perfect killing machines, but they don't compliment each other. Mireille is like Kirika's conscience. Kirika can't be killed, but she would probably kill herself if she didn't have Mireille. Edit: Also, Altena herself said that it was for the best when Chloe died, because the two sides of Noir are supposed to forge "a complete balance." She herself believed that they were the authentic pair. All three had received the blessing, anyway.

VidelCoolGirl

August 21st, 2006, 09:54 PM

That's one thing I saw too. Mireille always seemed to bring Kirika back. Whenever Kirika would go into "Evil Noir" mode, Just Mireille saying her name would snap her out of it. Although at the end, the watch was the thing that brought Kirika back; the "Take Care Of Mireille" thing tells me that Kirika wouldn't do anything to hurt Mireille, another reason I doubt they killed each other at the end.

Although Mireille acts tough, and throws up that whole "I'm gonna kill you" thing, you know it's just a load of hooey. I think Mireille needs Kirika just as much as Kirika needs her.

It's funny, most of everyone who's seen Noir, Chloe was their favorite character. I never got it. To be honest, Chloe was my least favorite character. I mean, she was pretty badass and all, but I couldn't get well enough into her character. She just came off as "The girl is obsessed and crazy."

Dinco

August 22nd, 2006, 06:25 AM

It's funny, most of everyone who's seen Noir, Chloe was their favorite character. I never got it. To be honest, Chloe was my least favorite character. I mean, she was pretty badass and all, but I couldn't get well enough into her character. She just came off as "The girl is obsessed and crazy."
Well everyone in Noir is nuts, but Chloe has a good reason for being obsessed and crazy. Basically she was engaged to Kirika from child hood, fell head over heels in love with her during that flash back scene, decided to become a killer for her, was told by Altina for years they would be together forever and ever as she lived in seclusion, and then many years later Kirka just randomly ends up with this blonde, french chick? I think that would be enough to make anyone snap.

Personally, I feel she got screwed. I don't understand why Merielle deserves her more. Its not like shes any better of a person. They both have killed piles of people, she in particular did it for profit which seems worse to me. Chloe on the other hand appears to kill for the love of Altina and Kirika. She also seemed to respect Kirika more at times, and wasn't threatening to kill her for most of the show. Chloe also despite her psychoness, does have a warm and tender side and would give her all the loving she needs.

ArcaJ

August 22nd, 2006, 08:37 AM

Personally, I feel she got screwed. I don't understand why Merielle deserves her more. Its not like shes any better of a person. They both have killed piles of people, she in particular did it for profit which seems worse to me. Chloe on the other hand appears to kill for the love of Altina and Kirika. She also seemed to respect Kirika more at times, and wasn't threatening to kill her for most of the show. Chloe also despite her psychoness, does have a warm and tender side and would give her all the loving she needs.

Chloe didn't get Kirika because Chloe didn't have a heart. She only loved the idea that Kirika was supposed to be her partner forever. When Kirika rejected her for Mireille, she went ballistic. If Chloe really loved Kirika she wouldn't try to kill the one she loved.

Look at how she behaved in the Manor. Chloe didn't seem to understand that Kirika's soul was gone. She was all "I'm so happy we're together now! *chu*

You'd think she'd notice her would-be lover's lack of humanity. Mireille managed to bring out that humanity in Kirika. While Chloe would have been just fine with that soulless doll at the Manor, she never saw the sadness deep inside of Kirika. She really didn't want to be a killer. In the end she didn't understand Kirika at all.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

ZoharContact

August 22nd, 2006, 09:33 AM

You'd think she'd notice her would-be lover's lack of humanity. Mireille managed to bring out that humanity in Kirika. While Chloe would have been just fine with that soulless doll at the Manor, she never saw the sadness deep inside of Kirika. She really didn't want to be a killer. In the end she didn't understand Kirika at all.Well said. You two may be well advised to include spoiler tags, though. ^_^I don't dislike Chloe, and I thought it was really sad when she died. She was actually a rather pitiable character. That being said, she and Kirika were not meant to be. Love isn't something that's given because it's "deserved," anyway. It just happens.

Also, remember that Chloe never once calls Kirika by name. Kirika is practically an object to her and everyone else, except Mireille, the only person who called her by name. Further, Kirika was dead set on being Mireille's protector ever since she was told by Mirelle's mother to protect her. Of course, she did so unconscious of that dictum, but it's only natural that a deeper relationship grew from that.

Dinco is absolutely right about Chloe being screwed, though. She was raised by Altena, and obviously took all of her insane teachings to heart. She grew up with a very abnormal perspective on life and relationships. If it was her and Kirika that wound up living together, things might have been different. That's why she was screaming, "It should have been me!" But Kirika was just as unstable as she was, albeit in different ways. She needed the stability that Mireille provided, which she gained from being raised in a somewhat normal family. So that's why Chloe and Kirika are not a "balanced" couple.

Chloe never was able to experience the stability that Kirika did, which made her a very tragic character. It's probably also the reason why she treasured that fork so much. Because she was able to catch a glimpse of that stability in their tea party, no matter how "mad" it might have been.

VidelCoolGirl

August 22nd, 2006, 12:59 PM

Yeah...you allhave a point with Chloe. She was sorta a sad character now that I think about it. I wonder if she would have changed at all if she had lived in the end. Possibly with Kirika and Mireille...but then I'm sure that would have caused problems. *Jealous*

Anyway, I watched the last DVD AGAIN last night, and I thought about this. They didn't have their guns at the end of the series. The reason I thought this was becasue 1. Mirelle didn't have a gun when her and Kirika walked out of the manor. One arm was around Kirika, and the other was empty.

2. They never carry more than one gun with them. They carry more ammo, but they never have two guns, they usually take a gun from somebody dead if they need it. Otherwise, only one, therefore, they couldn't have picked one up again.

3. Where would they carry another gun without it being seen in those outfits? Does Mireille even have pockets in that tight skirt?

Thus, I think Zohar is right with the theory it was more of a symbolic thing, with Kirika kinda "shooting" her other self if you will, and not the fact "OMG THEY KILLED EACH OTHER!"

shezaei_neko

August 22nd, 2006, 07:53 PM

Whoa, your theories about Chloe are quite interesting.
And I agree with them. I liked her character but I do think that she and Kirika weren't made for each other....

Also I think that the 2 shots at the end, were a symbol, perhaps of their "graduation" from being NOIR or assassins....

VidelCoolGirl

August 23rd, 2006, 05:48 PM

Yeah, I think we all are proud Kirika x Mireille fangirls. They rock so hard.

333jeffery

September 8th, 2006, 09:54 PM

After what Kirika did to Mirielle's folks, I don't see how they could be together. Unless I'm missing some important plot point.....

VidelCoolGirl

September 8th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Mireille understands that it wasn't really Kirika who shot her parents. Kirika had been baraged with killing since she could walk most likely, and she had no idea what she was doing. Mirelle understands that, and realizes, it wasn't really Kirika's fault.

As we said before, it was Kirika's other side that killed her parents. The side that Mireille knows would have never done so most likely. Kirika even says for Mireille to kill her for her past. Man, we need Zohar back to help with this.

333jeffery

September 8th, 2006, 10:15 PM

I just thought it would be kinda hard to get past that. As for Chloe, I think she could be kind, in her own cold-blooded way (like when she takes care of Zellner after what Riemann tells her about his daughter).
A bit OT: I wonder if Madlax is similar to Noir, seeing as how the same folks made both shows?....

shezaei_neko

September 9th, 2006, 07:39 PM

Madlax is not similar to Noir, IMO. I'll talk about it later....
BTW, I think that Mireille really forgave Kirika, 'cause
When Kirika pushed Altena and fell with her, if Mireille wanted, she could have let Kirika die with Altena. But instead she begged Kirika to stay with her, and she was crying while asking. So, this is something you don't do with people you're not going to forgive.....

ZoharContact

September 9th, 2006, 10:45 PM

Mireille DID forgive her. It was quite obvious that she did. You might think it's slightly unrealistic for her to be forgiven, but if you consider the bond between them, the understanding they shared, and maybe even budding feelings for each other, forgiveness becomes all the more plausible.

In fact, Mireille's forgiveness lends all the more credence to a romantic bond between them.And understand that, just after learning that she killed Mireille's parents, Kirika begged Mireille to fulfill their promise and kill her, but she couldn't. Instead, she comes back with the determination to save Kirika from her other self.

Oh... and remember that there's already a precedent for this. Mireille had to choose between killing her uncle and letting Kirika die, and he was the only family she knew ever since she was really young.

VidelCoolGirl

September 10th, 2006, 03:35 PM

spoiler]True that. If I hated someone so much for killing my parents, I wouldn't save them from certain death. Mireille forgave Kirika...if you read between the lines, it's kinda obvious.

Also, forgot about the whole Uncle thing. If you think about it, Mireille had so many chances to just let Kirika die, but we all know she loves her enough to as where she wouldn't.[/spoiler]

USMC2Hard4U

September 24th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Noir is the best series that exists. For all the reasons you are describing :0

ZoharContact

May 9th, 2007, 09:56 PM

Nialo931

May 9th, 2007, 10:08 PM

Yes, Noir is freakin' awesome! The plot got me hooked and I was into gun slingers at the moment having recently finished Cowboy Bebop at that time. I liked the gun scenes, but even more so the amount of reference they used.

KatayokuのTenshi

May 9th, 2007, 11:03 PM

This place is getting so quiet...

Time for some necromancy! *_*

I stumbled upon a very nice Noir AMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db1Nr1HAQak). Not exactly yuri-ish, but I believe it deserves honorable mention.

I've never liked that song . . . until now. :wub: Also I don't think I've ever seen such impressive editing. Nice find.

Regarding the topic,

A few things that convince me:
The fact that they slept in the same bed (or are assassins are poor?). The love letter <_<. Mireille’s reaction to Kirika’s disappearance seems more appropriate if she was in love than if they were friends. Admittedly that's just opinion. Does anyone have any insight into their apparent psychic connection? :unsure:

It seemed to me that Kirika, regardless of everything else, would want to be with Mireille simply for her ability to stay alive. Remember the artist? He was a soldier for most of his life, but he was killed just for associating with Kirika.

Yeah, I think we all are proud Kirika x Mireille fangirls.
Except for the boys :P

VidelCoolGirl

May 10th, 2007, 02:49 AM

Ah, Thread revival FTW. Yep, Noir is still one of my favs. Lets hope this new BeeTrain anime has just as much fandom as Noir did.

ZoharContact

May 10th, 2007, 07:04 AM

I've never liked that song . . . until now. Also I don't think I've ever seen such impressive editing. Nice find.Why, thank you. ^_^Does anyone have any insight into their apparent psychic connection?Psychic connection? I don't know about a supernatural connection between them, but I think Kirika has abilities that go a little beyond "natural." This series never dangles its truths right in front of your face. Whether itsDisassociative Identity Disorder or psychic abilities or the symbolism of the final two gunshots, the production staff leaves it to the viewers, though I think they have a good idea of what they intended. (They even mention the possibility of yuri in the DVD inserts, and there's lots of other info. I highly recommend that any self-respecting Noir fan should read them.) There are lots of clues.

For example, Kirika can dodge bullets, even when fired from guns that are outside her field of vision. I think a good example is... episode 21? I'm just recalling from memory, but it's the episode where they visit the library.

Also, in the episode just before that (the toy truck episode) she unerringly runs straight for this one assassin in the midst of a bustle of civilians. That made it pretty clear to me that she can sense hostile intent.

All those scenes that annoyed the hell out of everyone? Where she sits and lets a please-kill-me-bad-guy shoot at her five times and the bullets just whiz by? I have the feeling that she knew they wouldn't hit.

And I'm just getting started. There are tons of juicy morsels to let you know that there's more to Noir than there appears. I really love how they made the viewers dig on their own.Ah, Thread revival FTW. Yep, Noir is still one of my favs. Lets hope this new BeeTrain anime has just as much fandom as Noir did.Honestly, Bee-Train should have their own thread in the yuri forums. I have no idea why, but they are hardly recognized in yuri fandom at all. They made Noir, .hack//SIGN, Madlax (although I never watched all of that one), and now Murder Princess, among others. It's almost like they have an agenda. They are yuri machines.

Anyway, there is one final tidbit I would like to add. After listening to Kajiura's music for god knows how long, I think I have discovered that each character has a theme instrument.

Kirika - violin

Mireille - Accordion / acoustic guitar?

Chloe - flute

Altena - bagpipes?

Black Kirika / No-name Kirika - saxophone?

This brings to mind a really neat idea for a fanart... if only I could draw it! ~_~

VidelCoolGirl

May 10th, 2007, 09:47 AM

Anyway, there is one final tidbit I would like to add. After listening to Kajiura's music for god knows how long, I think I have discovered that each character has a theme instrument.

Kirika - violin

Mireille - Accordion / acoustic guitar?

Chloe - flute

Altena - bagpipes?

Black Kirika / No-name Kirika - saxophone?

This brings to mind a really neat idea for a fanart... if only I could draw it! ~_~

So what, the group in a band or something? All with their retrospect instruments? *Imagines Mireille playing an acordian*

KatayokuのTenshi

May 10th, 2007, 11:12 AM

Why, thank you. ^_^Psychic connection?

There was a bit at the start of the video where Kirika seems to respond to an unspoken thought. It reminded me of something similar in the actual show . . . I don't remember too well, I'll have to watch it again soon. ^_^

ZoharContact

May 10th, 2007, 11:26 AM

There was a bit at the start of the video where Kirika seems to respond to an unspoken thought. It reminded me of something similar in the actual show . . . I don't remember too well, I'll have to watch it again soon. ^_^That was recorded directly from the series, but the two of them aren't conversing psychically. It's just replaying a conversation they supposedly had before, to different visual footage. Note that, in the series, they juxtaposed Mireille's declaration alongside her Kirika-ogling. The look on her face totally says, "Aww! She's so cute when she's sleeping!")So what, the group in a band or something? All with their retrospect instruments? *Imagines Mireille playing an acordian*It would be cute, don'tcha think? A violin, accordion, flute, saxophone, bagpipes... sounds like a combination that only Kajiura-sensei could get to work.

KatayokuのTenshi

May 10th, 2007, 12:11 PM

The look on her face totally says, "Aww! She's so cute when she's sleeping!"
I'd have to agree with her :redface: Also, sorry for the confusion.

So what, the group in a band or something? All with their retrospect instruments? *Imagines Mireille playing an acordian*
. . . that would be the cutest art ever. :O *Imagines Chloe playing a flute with an intense expression* ... Altena on bagpipes? :lol:

Kirika - violin
Mireille - Accordion / acoustic guitar?
Chloe - flute
Altena - bagpipes?
Black Kirika / No-name Kirika - saxophone?

That's really quite interesting, for example 'cante per me' is mostly violin...

Speaking of, there's a song on the soundtrack, I believe it's called 'Romance' (I don't remember where it's used in the series) that uses an acoustic guitar and another instrument . . . it may be a violin but I'm (I'm trying to thing of a better word than 'stupid' but I can't) stupid when it comes to music.

Edit: Although I don't like this version of the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLAP-btmAMw

VidelCoolGirl

May 10th, 2007, 04:28 PM

Ah the Noir music. Love it so. One of my favorite BGM's ever.

Jabberwock

May 10th, 2007, 05:49 PM

Speaking of, there's a song on the soundtrack, I believe it's called 'Romance' (I don't remember where it's used in the series) that uses an acoustic guitar and another instrument . . . it may be a violin but I'm (I'm trying to thing of a better word than 'stupid' but I can't) stupid when it comes to music.

Edit: Although I don't like this version of the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLAP-btmAMw

Interesting take on the pair, though I'm pretty sure the subtext can be argued as a sisterly connection as much as a romantic one, though I am more in favour of the familial bond than the sexual one.

That being said, the soundtrack is beautiful and it feels strange being here. ^^;; But I can't help myself when things about Noir are afoot.