Maybe a dumb question that everybody knows except me

[Defiled one]

....Oh, I cant believe I am doing this...actualy posting a thread in the famous evangelion section..creepy.

this is my stupid question..

Its like this, in the first episode Shinji sees Rei in a school uniform before an angel atack sachiel "drools" for his own reasons :P

And in the end of the movie EOE, he sees Rei floating the red sea.. after 3 impact, before trying to strangle Asuka.. again.

So I was wondering.. the meaning of it...probaly it doesnt mean anything though... or was it just for fanservice?

[Reichu]

I have no answer, or even a theory or self-satisfying fanwankery, but I have pictars.

http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-01/01_C022_mid.jpg

http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C468_mid.jpg

Plus the chibi version (lulz).

http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-21/21_C225_mid.jpg

:poof:

[Defiled one]

she scares the living hell out of me...

there is also a question that i have in mind... in episode 1 Yui :P gets her arm broke by sachiel :P but when she goes berseek she regenerates her arm perfectly..

but when her arm is ripped of by Zeruriel :P she ripps his/her arm of and creates a new for herself.. but why doesnt it have paint? like, when she broke her arm?

[TS-Scorpio]

Dramatic effect.

[Defiled one]

Yeah...I though she didnt have time to paint it because of Zeruriel :P but i wanted to make sure...

[Reichu]

Continuity error. Episode #01 is teh botch0rz lol. But, then, in #19, the skin on her new arm is, like, whitie, not darkie. Evas are darkies, dammit!

The stuff covering the arms isn't "paint", BTW. It's a reinforced plasticky substance that can stretch a lot (see e.g. the infected EVA-03 -- whoa), but tear, too.

[neoXellos]

...i dont know about fan service with the whole rei in the same place in different frames, but i think it has something to do with shinji wanting to keep her how he first met her.

[Jabberwok]

By my estimates, the only actual armor on the Evas, appear to be the helmet, pauldrons, vambraces, and knee pads. Oh, and the plug cover... thing. The rest just seems to be an Eva-sized plug suit.

The Eva winter-tan thing I chalk up to contrast. The scene's kind of dark and keeping the normal, swarthy complextion wouldn't have been as visible or dramatic, imo. That, and the whiter skin looks so much more like an asian/caucasian skin tone, too. They're people! The Evas are made out of people!



The Rei bookends mean too me as much...
Ep:01, Rei: "The s**t has not yet begun to hit the fan."
Ep:26', Rei: "The fan has stopped now, and it appears to have made quite a mess."

[Defiled one]

yup.. that i have to agree.. if LIlith is mother of humanity.. eva unit one beneath that armor could resemble a human.. but than again with some many cables and armor to make her still and quiet.. she gets nasty

[neoXellos]

the worse part is that the eva's r not only ppl but the mothers of there pilots...prolly murdered for the cause 2. ANd jabberwok, the ppl are not solyent green!

[Defiled one]

There are suspicions that Yui knew what was going to happen.. then again why was so mysterious in a sense.. to calm.. to unaware... but the horrid true was.. she was the one that started all this... she knew what was going to happen... than i again think we will never know.

[neoXellos]

indeed...Yui was a bit touoched in the head if u as me tho...

[DarthMigit]

Rei was apparent at the death/regression/instrumentality of every human during the third impact, but also several main characters before third impact. I believe it was a form of soul collection, Rei effectively saved them from death by returning them to the black moon. Rei has also displayed numerous angelic abilities (e.g. levitation) perhaps during episode one and ONE MORE FINAL she was contacting Shinji telepathically. Note the line "Ikari is calling me" possibly suggesting a psycic link between the two.

[Jabberwok]

the worse part is that the eva's r not only ppl but the mothers of there pilots...prolly murdered for the cause
Murder? I s'pose in the case of Rei I and maybe Mrs. Suzahara, but Yui and Kyoko? Unless suicide counts as murdering one's self...

2. ANd jabberwok, the ppl are not solyent green!
Correct useage of the quote did not factor in to the scenario; humor was the only consideration.

[neoXellos]

but why did they commit suicide? Perhaps they knew they had 2 do it...and also, how did they trap the soul of her mother in the eva? because without the soul the body is useless.
i was hopeing that rei and shinji would become an item...or shinji and misato but all of us know how that one ended...such a sad serise. on a lighter note! REI IS HOT! :wub:

[Vaikyuko]

Am I the only one who sees Rei's paradoxes as the magic of exactly that - time paradox? As in, once she became GNR, she got all kindsa nifty powers and can jump time, thusly constantly existing in various timelines?

Maybe I should be quiet.

[neoXellos]

no no no!...that makes much sence...if one can exist in multiple time lines what else can they do?

[Defiled one]

yeah now that you mention it!! maybe she can also could jump time...after all she never forgot shinji..I mean she had Liliths soul.. just like kaworu had adam soul" i think?" so it was quite normal for her to have a conection with shinji... but then again why would she go to the past?..

[Jabberwok]

but then again why would she go to the past?..
Less Asuka to get in the way.

[Defiled one]

unless she liked the feeling to be one with shinij i dont see a reason...unless she dint go alone....after all shinji became for a few time a "god" in a sense....rei and kaworu were there too...but they gave the choice to shinji...not to mention that when he saw rei floating in EoE he was calm.. more like sure of what he saw...we will never know what they did to shinji... and not to mention when rei and shinji were fused.. what did she put inside of him if she did put anything inside of him....

[neoXellos]

that would explain the 'psychic connection' between them

[DarthMigit]

If indeed it exists, I am only speculating here...

[neoXellos]

but it makes perfect sence

[DarthMigit]

I suppose, and Rei does express more than once that she understands what Shinji is thinking. However, If she is a partial or complete clone of Yui it could simply be that she knows him very well.

[Defiled one]

rei... or her true name lilith as the body of his mother but the soul was diferent.. why gendo did this was for two resaons.. one to make 3 impact his way.. got pwn.. and for his dark needs... sick bastard

why shinji captured her atention may be of something more deep.... maybe she was just curious to know emotions..

[DarthMigit]

I definately agree that Rei contains the soul of Lillith, but I also believe that a certain degree of Yui's personality resides within her.

[Defiled one]

well she has mother instincts since she as Liliths soul, she is a natural.. so what she felt for shinji was what Yui would feel..although when liilith soul was awakened fully things got a very strange turn...we all know that shinji was weak in body but if we reacall we was the most closed up and shy... even kaworu said that at field are the soul that closes themselves from the others... and hey we are talking about shinji... he must had a really strong closed personality...an lilith was drawn to it.. either by safeness of not being hurt again... and kaworu, who when his body was destroyed had a revelation of what shinji realy was... even rei 3 was there hidding in the shadows.

what makes me even more strange...Kaworu and rei both have souls of the first angels "At least in theory" on from the angels one from the humans.. shouldnt they be mortal enemies? makes things even more interesting...

[DarthMigit]

well she has mother instincts since she as Liliths soul, she is a natural.. so what she felt for shinji was what Yui would feel..although when liilith soul was awakened fully things got a very strange turn...we all know that shinji was weak in body but if we reacall we was the most closed up and shy... even kaworu said that at field are the soul that closes themselves from the others... and hey we are talking about shinji... he must had a really strong closed personality...an lilith was drawn to it.. either by safeness of being hurt again... and kaworu, who when his body was destroyed had a revelation of what shinji realy was... even rei 3 was there hidding in the shadows.

what makes me even more strange...Kaworu and rei both have souls of the first angels "At least in theory" on from the angels one from the humans.. shouldnt they be mortal enemies? makes things even more interesting...

They are, at least Rei regards Kaworu as an enemy. She regarded him with suspicion and distaste, then aided in his death. That's mortal enough an enemy for me.

[Defiled one]

yeah....there was a record of an at field diferent from kaworu.. and rei look was priceless. very pissed.. at that time we knew that she had awoken...gendo had no idea she was there at that time.

rei was very pissed her face was like crazy while kaworu was smiling...what did kaworu realized in there.

[Defiled one]

now back on the topic... why did shinji saw a rei in the first episode and than in the movie at the very end the same thing?

[DarthMigit]

Like I say, I put it down to latent psycic, non-corporeal communication

[neoXellos]

and for his dark needs... sick bastard


i never realized what ws going on untill u mentioned it...now i hate the bastard even more...and i didnt think it was bossible.

but back 2 topic, i think that it was shinji's was of keeping rei forever...so that she would sttill be the same as when he first met her.

[DarthMigit]

by your awkward silence I will assume that... I don't even know anymore.

[Defiled one]

there are suspicions that he did something...the bloodied bandages in rei room?...Seriouls the guy went all emo when his wife got stuck in eva.

[DarthMigit]

I thought the bandages were on account of the injuries Rei suffered in the unit 00 contact experiment. Despite everything he has done, I find it hard to imagine Gendo as a paedo'. I think you may be expecting the very worst there, there has never been any officially released info to suggest that Gendo did Rei.

[Vaikyuko]

Wow, you people talk way the hell too much. Seriously, guys, I posted a few hours ago, if that, and already there's nearly a second page (and I have posts/page maxed out to 40, too).

First off, in a purely metaphysical sense, you can't put something inside someone when there is nothing to put. Seriously. When Rei was straddling Shinji during Instrumentality, the two of them were not corporeal - that is to say, they were like Shadowcat from X-Men, phasing through. ie, if Rei touched Shinjis face her hand wouldn't make contact, it'd zip right through. But there isn't anything in space (which is where they were), so she couldn't put anything inside him. Also, there is no psychic connection between them. Stop the randomness, seriously. If you guys want to come up with absurd assumptions like Gendo copulated with Rei, then that's your deal, but please look at logic. How many times did Rei get the living bejesus beat out of her in synch tests? Enough to fill that room with her bandages. Duh.

If you guys want more clarification, search the forum for older threads rather than create notions that have already been debunked.

[DarthMigit]

Oh...um. Well that puts me in my place I must say. Sorry about that there, lost myself in the random rumor spinning. I'm going to bed before I totally lose touch with reality...uh bye. Oh and I'd like to point out that it is still entirely possible that Shinji and Rei share a mental link of some description. I stand by that theory.

Sorry again...

[Jabberwok]

but back 2 topic, i think that it was shinji's was of keeping rei forever...so that she would sttill be the same as when he first met her.
I'm getting a Shinji/Rei shipper vibe from you. Correct me if I'm wrong. :P

Considering this theory though, the first time Shinji "sees" Rei, he hasn't even physically her yet. So if we chalk this apparition up to "psychic voodoo" of some sort, what does that make the bookend from EoE?

'Cause if that's not her projecting herself again, it's all in Shinji's mind, and I don't recall him hallucinating much prior to this. He comes up with some interesting imagery yes, but prior to this it has all been in his own inner world.

Maybe it could be effect similar to how the Rei spirit-guides/tangifiers from 3I take on a desired form (ignoring Shigiru, or course), but I'm not ready to say that.

Instead of the apparition being Rei as Shinji wishes to see her, I prefer to think of it as Rei appearing as she wishes to see herself. As best we can tell, Rei II (as represented in Gendo's death scene by Rei the schoolgirl, as opposed to Rei I, the child; and Rei III, the nude) was the only Rei to ever experience any real emotion towards... well, anyone; the other two vessels were both relatively short-lived.

The "Red Cross" book explains that the differences between the various Reis personalities are each defined by their unique experiences. I can only assume that after Instrumentality, these various Rei "shards" are finally allowed to fuse together, with the personality containing the bulk of the experience, Rei II, forming Rei's outer experience, that of Rei the school girl.



As far as keeping her forever, remember that during the infamous "Kitchen Scene" of pre-Instrumentality, Shinji appears to set the record strait and lay his heart on the table as concerns his romantic interests...

Shinji: I want to help you in some way... and to be with you forever.
Asuka: Then, don't do anything. Don't come near me anymore... Because all you ever do is hurt me.
Shinji: Asuka, help me! You're... you're the only one that can!
Asuka: Liar...

As someone of a similar mindset to Shinji, I can say the idea of two women occupying the same place in your heart can be a very confusing and troubling feeling. The easiest way I've found to avoid this anxiety is to simply deny the catalysing feeling in the first place.

Shinji appears to do this, in addition to denying a great many things about himself, for some time, up until the post-Ep:24/pre-Ep:25' timeframe. With the Dummy Plug Plant in Terminal Dogma eliminating one of his choices, Shinji slowly (and unconsciously for the most part, imo) comes to terms with this, with less than ideal results from the very beginning of EoE (Asuka's room 303) and with just as unideal results (the "Kitchen Scene" and beyond).

Now, if you weren't trying to project a SxR vibe, then by all means disregard the last half of this and the rampant Shinji/Asuka shipping contained within.

</longwinded>



you don't Gendo did it with Rei do you?
Absolutely not. I think she was given seperate quarters from Gendo, by the creators, in an effort to avoid this train of thought. Now, if you were alluding to something more nefarious, considering the high regard he placed on her safety and on her in general throughout the show, I find it unimaginable that she was ever rei-ped. [lol, but seriously]

She is the physical embodiment of his wife and simultaneously the tool by with he can be reunited with her. Some of attention he shows toward her implies he had more love for her as a daughter than he had for Shinji as a son, as well.

Sorry. A hearty "no" on that one.



Wow,
Well, the thread title is "Maybe a dumb question that everybody knows except me". New discussion can be fun sometimes and it encourages participation from newer members, even if it turns into a chat thread of sorts. I don't disagree with you, just sayin'.

[Defiled one]

Wow, you people talk way the hell too much. Seriously, guys, I posted a few hours ago, if that, and already there's nearly a second page (and I have posts/page maxed out to 40, too).

First off, in a purely metaphysical sense, you can't put something inside someone when there is nothing to put. Seriously. When Rei was straddling Shinji during Instrumentality, the two of them were not corporeal - that is to say, they were like Shadowcat from X-Men, phasing through. ie, if Rei touched Shinjis face her hand wouldn't make contact, it'd zip right through. But there isn't anything in space (which is where they were), so she couldn't put anything inside him. Also, there is no psychic connection between them. Stop the randomness, seriously. If you guys want to come up with absurd assumptions like Gendo copulated with Rei, then that's your deal, but please look at logic. How many times did Rei get the living bejesus beat out of her in synch tests? Enough to fill that room with her bandages. Duh.

If you guys want more clarification, search the forum for older threads rather than create notions that have already been debunked.

you are absolutly right...I must search the older threads...

[Reichu]

By my estimates, the only actual armor on the Evas, appear to be the helmet, pauldrons, vambraces, and knee pads. Oh, and the plug cover... thing. The rest just seems to be an Eva-sized plug suit.
For vambraces, those things are awfully skimpy. :P

They seem to have black spandex underneath it all (lulz), but the plating on the torso and legs definitely counts as armor, too.

The Eva winter-tan thing I chalk up to contrast. The scene's kind of dark and keeping the normal, swarthy complextion wouldn't have been as visible or dramatic, imo.
Well... That's true. I also remember fanwanking something a while back (with 'ki?) about how, when some animals lose limbs, the regrown one is lighter at first.

That, and the whiter skin looks so much more like an asian/caucasian skin tone, too.
But ... but that's so WRONG! :cries: I like my Yui-sama with her luscious chocolate complexion!

The Rei bookends mean too me as much... <snip>
So where does the chibi version fit in?

Am I the only one who sees Rei's paradoxes as the magic of exactly that - time paradox? As in, once she became GNR, she got all kindsa nifty powers and can jump time, thusly constantly existing in various timelines?

Welcome to the wonders of Quantum Magic™!!! :P

[DarthMigit]

She is the physical embodiment of his wife and simultaneously the tool by with he can be reunited with her. Some of attention he shows toward her implies he had more love for her as a daughter than he had for Shinji as a son, as well.

Sorry. A hearty "no" on that one.



Thank God, that was what I had hoped and always assumed. iT'S JUST THESE DAMN RUMOURS SCREWING WITH MY HEAD!!

[Reichu]

In the name of all things sacred, can't you kids **NOT** post three times in a row? Bad, bad, bad!!! http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/bat.gif :points to EDIT button:

[neoXellos]

heh, sure he didn't do the nasty with rei...just keep telling yourself that and perhaps u might get some sleep 2night heh heh heh

[Defiled one]

there is no impiric fact that proves that he did the nasty "rei ped" is just a baseless rumor... just like many other things in Eva.. everyone has a diferent theory. Althought i was hoping to have decent response to my fist question thought...I mean if shinji never saw her and she was wounded.. how could he see her in the first episode in the city?

"Ironic" maybe a clone got away from the rei aquarium...who knows?

[neoXellos]

but how would one of the clones get out? Perhaps Lillith knew all of this would happen, and wanted to imprint herself into shinji's memory?

[DarthMigit]

In the name of all things sacred, can't you kids **NOT** post three times in a row? Bad, bad, bad!!! http://www.evacommentary.org/forums/images/smiles/bat.gif :points to EDIT button:

Oops...heh heh. It's not my fault! Really, my damn computer is screwing around and I got confused. I sware I will be used to these forums soon.

By the way neoXellos, I have already slept soundly as I never supported THAT theory, now let us never mention it again.

Also, I am no longer sure whether there was meant to be any real signifigance with the Rei apparition. It just happened to freak us out okay... :)

[neoXellos]

hmmmmmm...but perhaps there was...and im glad u got some sleep :p

[Jabberwok]

For vambraces, those things are awfully skimpy. :P

They seem to have black spandex underneath it all (lulz), but the plating on the torso and legs definitely counts as armor, too.
I had forgotten about those tight, washboard abs the Evas sport, and I completely forgotten about Unit 01's breastplate -- the one that gets melted down to the third layer or whatever.


And when I spoke of vambraces, I was specifically thinking of some of Sadamoto's art and those unwieldy Magoroku Exterminate Swords he attaches to the Evas' ulnas. I was thinking of him when I mentioned the knee pads, too.

Come to think of it, I've read the manga more times than I've watched a complete episode recently...

But ... but that's so WRONG! :cries: I like my Yui-sama with her luscious chocolate complexion!
You could always blame it on her being forced to regenerate off of Zeruel's pastey-white ribbon-flesh. :shrug:

So where does the chibi version fit in?
Does she have to? I agree that the composition of the Gehirn scene parallels the two bookend scenes (quite intentionally, I reckon), but I can't find a connection past that. I mean, maybe it's just there so there can be a creepy distance shot of each Rei incarnation...

It's not like she's ghosting/projecting/quantum-magicking or something; she's there. She doesn't wink out after half a dozen frames; she quite disastrously interacts with Naoko.

I think it's the composition of the shot that is significant, not the content necessarily.



Althought i was hoping to have decent response to my fist question thought...I mean if shinji never saw her and she was wounded.. how could he see her in the first episode in the city?
Appologies.

I am reminded of some earlier discussions, specifically that of the strange train-car dream sequence of Ep:19. A dream seemingly and mysteriously shared between Rei, Shinji, and Touji...
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/5186/00400toujisdream4yr.th.jpg (http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00400toujisdream4yr.jpg)
...which occurs right after a conversation between Asuka and Rei about the later's dreams or lack thereof.

I believe a theory was proposed, and in a more eloquent manner, that when Rei dreams, she can use some of her Lilith super-powers which include astral projection (Ep:01 and Ep:26' apparitions, the Rei-tachi spirit guides) and perhaps telepathy of a sort (as illustrated in the Ep:19 dream and later in Sadamoto's take on the salvage opperation in the manga).

At the time Shinji sees Rei in the street, we can assume she is safely tucked away in her hospital room. Which must be fairly close to the Cage given how quickly they seem to wheel her out. But in any case, the fact that Gendo instructs Fuyutsuki to "wake Rei" implies that she was sleeping at the time. Insert super-powers at your discretion.



While writing this I thought of something else about the ghostly bookends: not of the physics or the how, but of the meaning and message behind it.

I had always taken the shots as a sort of parentheses around the series in general or perhaps around Shinji's relationship with Rei (ie, this is the first time you have ever seen this girl, this is the last time you will ever see this girl).

But then I remembered the condition that Shinji first met Rei in, what with the bandages on her left eye and right arm. I then recalled what Shinji's sees immediately after the last apparition: Asuka sporting bandages identical to Rei's first ones. My train of thought led me to a possible conclusion drawn by Shinji (or alternatively, subtle suggestion from Rei herself) that the energy Shinji had previously spent on attempting to converse with and come to better understand Rei (much to Asuka's chagrin) instead should have been and should now be focused on the girl lying in the sand before him.

This may be a bit of a stretch, though.

Or it could be, similar to how Shinji sees the first ghost and then later meets Rei, that he will again meet her after seeing the last ghost.

But this one seems a little too happy...

Also, I am no longer sure whether there was meant to be any real signifigance with the Rei apparition. It just happened to freak us out okay...:)
This is a good posibility. Setting an ominous and mysterious tone for the character before she makes her first, pity-inducing appearance. Setting her as a character with secrets...

A girl from a world we may not understand. [Sigh, sorry...]

</longwinded>

In all seriousness, I know topics like these have been covered a bajillion times over by more articulate folk in the past. I am just trying to return to the community, to sow what I have already reaped, and to help keep the forum active.

...now let us never mention it again.
You gonna get rei-ped!