August 2nd Ask John Legal Suggestions for Importing DVD's

[VacantEyes]

I was reading your response and thought of two legal answers.

Legal Answer #1

If somebody is presumably willing to learn Japanese and pay Japanese prices in order to enjoy uncut Japanese shows, then why not just buy an R2 DVD player? Unless I'm mistaken, at that point you're not breaking any laws because no security is being circumvented and you get to watch exactly what you want when and where you want to watch it.

Legal Answer #2

A cheaper variation would be to change the region code of the DVD-ROM drive in your computer. These can usually be legally changed to any terrestrial DVD region (excepting the airline/hotel 'region') and thus be legally used for R2 DVD's. You only get to change these settings a few times before they become permanent, so it would probably be best to get multiple DVD-ROM drives if you wanted to watch DVD's from multiple regions and then label each drive for the region you set it to.

[Mr. Nice]

Given the commercial availability in the US of apps like DVDIdle Pro, whose specific purpose is to bypass region checks, it doesn't really appear that the DMCA really applies to the DVD region system (or if it does, none of the big Hollywood players have tried to get it enforced). DMCA trivially does cover the CSS encrytion sytem (which you have to bypass to copy a commercial DVD, but it's such a weak encryption that it can be brute force broken by apps), but that's a different issue.

[VacantEyes]

Given the commercial availability in the US of apps like DVDIdle Pro, whose specific purpose is to bypass region checks, it doesn't really appear that the DMCA really applies to the DVD region system (or if it does, none of the big Hollywood players have tried to get it enforced). DMCA trivially does cover the CSS encrytion sytem (which you have to bypass to copy a commercial DVD, but it's such a weak encryption that it can be brute force broken by apps), but that's a different issue.

First of all, I think John was specifically trying to consider fully legal answers and not any gray area solutions. Since the DMCA applies to everything you've mentioned, including the region code, any bypassing of these restrictions would most likely be illegal in the US. In addition, CSS wasn't originally cracked by brute force; the bulk of what made CSS tick was discovered when the Xing DVD Player software itself was cracked. It was only after the CSS algorithm was discovered and dissected in public that brute force attempts were found to be successful, initially taking 24 hours or more.

[yuzuha]

I do import dvds and have a regionless dvd player (such things exist... this is a global economy with thousands of international travellers and people who live on borders etc... not to mention people who move from country to country... I know people from India who brought their collections of Hindi movies for example). Many Japanese dvds also contain English subtitles (at least some of the live action ones do, and "anime on dvd" had a list of anime titles with English subs).

I also know someone has his own geekier solution for his laser disk collection... he obtains English scripts and uses the script and a computer to generate his own subtitles on the fly.

[BLACKANGEL32076]

Just out of curiosity, what is the FBI/Dept. of Comerce/Dept. of State's take on this?

[John]

If anyone cares, this was sent to me via e-mail. Following it is my reply.

I recently read your response to the question of "How Can Fans Watch Uncut Anime That's Only Released Edited?" and feel that your answer needs a bit of clarification. It is not illegal to import a Region 2 DVD or a Region 2 DVD player; however your response through such statements as "in most cases, actually watching an imported Japanese anime DVD in America is not legal." seem to imply that it is illegal to watch an imported anime. I realize that you are talking about pirated or fansubbed anime but I feel you should've expounded on that statement a bit more. I also realize most Americans do not speak or understand the Japanese language but I think you should have at least suggested the use of an imported Region 2 or Region Selective DVD player. They are becoming quite popular nowadays with the vast growth of globalization and, while not the solution to the problem of poor translation of anime by American companies, provide a way to watch original Japanese anime uncut and as intended.

Thanks for your criticism. However, it seems that you may be mistaken about the actual technical points of American copyright law. It's true that region 2 and region free DVD players are common, and most computer DVD-ROM drives allow a limited number of region setting changes, but none of these things are technically legal in America for the purpose of watching region encoded DVDs. Allow me to paraphrase US Copyright Code Title 17, Chapter 12, Section 1201 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00001201----000-.html) , which states:

No person shall import or otherwise traffic in any technology, product [or] device that is primarily designed for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that controls access to a work.

In other words, DVD players that enable viewing of DVDs not intended for American release are not legal in America, regardless of how common they are. Technically it is illegal to own or import a Region 2 DVD player for use in America. It's also technically illegal to have a region selective DVD player in America. The fact that they're commonplace does not mean that they're legal.

[Emi]

No person shall import or otherwise traffic in any technology, product [or] device that is primarily designed for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that controls access to a work.

A R2 DVD player isn't primarily designed to circumvent a technological measure. It's designed to limit the access to other works. An R0 DVD, with the ability to play all regions, not one, is primarily designed to circumvent a technological measure.

[VacantEyes]

No person shall import or otherwise traffic in any technology, product [or] device that is primarily designed for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that controls access to a work.

Hold on a second. I strongly disagree that 99% of all computer DVD-ROM drives and stand-alone Region 2 DVD players were primarily designed for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that controls access to a work. A phrase like that might be attributed to region-free players, especially when the region selection is included in the manual, but I don't see how that would apply to 99% of conventional DVD hardware sold in mainstream stores. Don't you think you're jumping to conclusions here?

[anime4everyone]

Hey John This is off topic But i wanted to know are there any legal restrictions regarding the importation and private use of anime OST's Thanks

[John]

Folks, I didn't write the law. I'm just quoting it. You can argue that R2 DVD players are designed to play R2 DVDs and therefore aren't circumventing technological measures controling access to a work, but at the same time you have to agree that R2 DVDs are not designed for accessibility in America. Therefore the use of an R2 DVD player to watch a DVD not designed for access in America is technically breaking the law. Likewise, it may be legitimately argued that DVD-ROM drives which allow region changes are a method of circumventing the technological access to products that the product manufacturers intended when they made and released the work.

I own many imported R2, R3, and even one R5 DVD. I own multiple region hacked DVD players and one R2 DVD player. I'm as guilty as anyone of ignoring this copyright law, and I think most of America routinely ignores this law. The law is not commonly enforced in America. But the fact that it's not enforced doesn't make it legal. But remember that in practical terms we're just talking about technicalities here.

[John]

Regarding the use of imported soundtracks, as far as I know, there are no legal prohibitions over importing foreign CDs since CDs do not have any type of technological region lock-out. But keep in mind that virtually all professionally published CDs are copyrighted, so the fact that they're imported doesn't give anyone the right to steal them or use the music without observing international copyright stipulations. The way you'd treat and respect an imported CD and the music contained thereupon would be the same as you'd treat a domestic CD you purchased at a local store.

[anime4everyone]

Hey John Thanks for the info i recently started listening to japanese artists ,and just wanted to know if could legally import and listen to them in The U.S. ,or if would have to wait until a U.S. label distributes there music here. Thanks.

[John]

I should also mention that in the case of artists who have CDs licensed for American release, theoretically the American licensor does have a right to control American availability. For example, since FUNimation owns the American distribution rights to the Full Metal Alchemist soundtracks, they asked Akadot to stop importing the official Japanese version CDs. Even though the Japanese version CDs are legitimate and legal, since FUNimation has the right to control American distribution of Full Metal Alchemist CDs, they have a right to prohibit distribution of imported FMA CDs.

But that happens very rarely.

[VacantEyes]

Even though John's posts didn't quote/paraphrase the part of the law that seems to apply best, it looks like he's probably right. R2 players are apparently legal to own, but are simply not legal to use in the US.

From John's link...

(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

Of course, if we take this to the extreme then maybe pressing the title button to get past the opening front-loaded trailers is also breaking the law. I tend to agree with those who think that the American public has been slumbering while the laws are being re-written over and over to give Corporate America the legal ability to deny more and more of our basic rights to do what we want with or own legally purchased hardware and software. The pirates aren't getting screwed over by these laws, only unsuspecting Americans who pay for their entertainment like they're supposed to. At the moment none of this in enforced, but that's a pretty lame excuse for ignoring it.


*Edited for clarity

[Deacon Blues]

In other words, DVD players that enable viewing of DVDs not intended for American release are not legal in America, regardless of how common they are. Technically it is illegal to own or import a Region 2 DVD player for use in America. It's also technically illegal to have a region selective DVD player in America. The fact that they're commonplace does not mean that they're legal.

Say for example, I'm either a student fresh out of college in Japan, or a member of a family moving from Japan to America. We have our Region 2 DVD player that we purchased in Japan to watch the releases there. You are saying that we can't bring over the DVD player, nor can we import DVDs to watch on them? ********. If all of these wildly speculative claims were actually true, major online Japanese retailers wouldn't be able to ship these things to America. Customs would be having a field day with all of these things, and Amazon Japan, CD Japan, Yes Asia, etc would all be delt a blow from American consumers. It's not the case of a 'blind eye' being turned towards it, it's actual fact.

It's also technically illegal to have a region selective DVD player in America.

Hot damn Jimbo! Ban all DVD Players that have ever been manufactured! All DVD players have the ability to change region codes on them. Hot damn, call the fuzz and arrest all of America.

For example, since FUNimation owns the American distribution rights to the Full Metal Alchemist soundtracks, they asked Akadot to stop importing the official Japanese version CDs.

This is nothing but an example of Funimation being the greedy sobs that they are. Geneon (and ADV I believe) have released soundtracks here in the states, but did they contact online retailers demanding that they cease and decist importation of said soundtracks? No, haven't seen any claims yet. Even if you own the rights to something like that, you cannot completely deny importation of an item. That's like an embargo for cryin out loud. Once again, if they could actually do this legally, Amazon Japan, Yes Asia, CD Japan wouldn't be able to ship these CDs to America. The same can happen in reverse... if an American CD is licensed for release in Japan, they can't stop them from importing a cheaper version from overseas...

All in all, whoever you are, John, you write your articles like you are mister high and mighty and are above everyone else, yet you suddenly say you do the same things that we do. Drop the act, get off your high horse of 'mortal means' and stop acting like you are so much better than the rest of us, because you aren't.

[Philemon]

All in all, whoever you are, John, you write your articles like you are mister high and mighty and are above everyone else, yet you suddenly say you do the same things that we do. Drop the act, get off your high horse of 'mortal means' and stop acting like you are so much better than the rest of us, because you aren't.

Who the hell are you, dumb ****?

[VacantEyes]

You are saying that we can't bring over the DVD player, nor can we import DVDs to watch on them? ********. If all of these wildly speculative claims were actually true, major online Japanese retailers wouldn't be able to ship these things to America. Customs would be having a field day with all of these things, and Amazon Japan, CD Japan, Yes Asia, etc would all be delt a blow from American consumers. It's not the case of a 'blind eye' being turned towards it, it's actual fact.

There is nothing in the law that says you can't buy R2 DVD's and players and then import them into the US. What the law says is that you can't legally play them in the US. Nobody is currently trying to crack down on this, and maybe they never will, but the law is pretty clear on this subject if you just bother to read it. Until then, please stop posting your naive nonsense. I got it wrong with my initial posts, and then I came back to admit John was right. Maybe it's time you did the same?

[yuzuha]

That is like saying that I can import the British version of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, but I can't read it in the U.S.!

[Leader Desslock]

^ Not exactly. No technological override is involved in reading a book distributed in the UK.

[John]

Deacon Blues, I respect your right to criticize (insult) me. But please consider what you're arguing. I provided direct links to the relevant passages in the US legal code for copyright law. If you don't believe me, read the law yourself.

As I said, I myself have multiple region free DVD players. I did say that the law is not commonly enforced. But the fact that places like Yes Asia offer region free DVD players does not mean that what they're doing is technically legal in America. Likewise, Amazon Japan can legally ship Japanese DVDs to America. If you read American copyright law, it's obvious that owning imported Japanese DVDs in America is legal. Watching them, however, is not legal.

Once again, if you don't believe me, just read the law yourself. Here's a direct link:

www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00001201----000-.html (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00001201----000-.html)

[VacantEyes]

While looking at the back of a recent Geneon DVD I noticed the following text...

"Licensed only for use in the USA and Canada"

Now that's certainly a new variation on the old statements that used to merely refer to sales. It's important to never forget that just because you may own a DVD doesn't mean you own the actual content recorded on it. Under current US law, the license holder is always in complete control of the content, no matter how many times you buy it from them or in what format(s). The moment you transport a recent Genon DVD outside of the USA or Canada you're forbidden from watching it, by law. Thanks to international treaties, these laws are in effect for most of the westernized world.

Only the continued lack of enforcement allows us to use what we purchase the way we want. Apparently, most Americans are perfectly fine just living on borrowed time and don't feel the need to have our laws reflect our true values. Always depending on the mercy of prosecutors is a game only a fool would accept.

[BLACKANGEL32076]

Even though John's posts didn't quote/paraphrase the part of the law that seems to apply best, it looks like he's probably right. R2 players are apparently legal to own, but are simply not legal to use in the US.

From John's link...

(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

Of course, if we take this to the extreme then maybe pressing the title button to get past the opening front-loaded trailers is also breaking the law. I tend to agree with those who think that the American public has been slumbering while the laws are being re-written over and over to give Corporate America the legal ability to deny more and more of our basic rights to do what we want with or own legally purchased hardware and software. The pirates aren't getting screwed over by these laws, only unsuspecting Americans who pay for their entertainment like they're supposed to. At the moment none of this in enforced, but that's a pretty lame excuse for ignoring it.


*Edited for clarity

Now that I get w second look at this, there is somthing I want to bring up;

A coworker of mine said that having the software needed to bypass this is ok to have as long as it is used by on your computer with a DVD-ROM. This says that this is wrong.

Any coments?

[sailornyanko]

In other words, DVD players that enable viewing of DVDs not intended for American release are not legal in America, regardless of how common they are. Technically it is illegal to own or import a Region 2 DVD player for use in America. It's also technically illegal to have a region selective DVD player in America. The fact that they're commonplace does not mean that they're legal.

Oh no! We are going to have to arrest all Latin americans that cross the US border with their Region 4 soap opera DVD's. :lol: I'm guilty of comitting the crime of watching my R4 soaps on airplanes flying over american soil. Shoot me.

In Latin america we use both Regions 1 and 4. Most DVD players sold here are multiregional. Practically all DVD's at Blockbuster are biregional. My best friend has a R4 player but it can still play any R1 disc though you can't use the features of the menu except the "play" button. My personal DVD player which I bought here can play all regions. I also have a second player, one of those compact dvd players with it's own TV which is R1, but it can play a lot of R4 DVD's. Curiously I was able to play the R4 version of Spirited Away once on that machine but never again. The machine can't read the disc anymore. I have no idea why if it could play the disc before. O_o'

If american laws are that way, why do they SELL "illegal" machines then? I guess I'll have to confess to the Feds that I have several multirregional DVD players. I'm Satan. :lol:

If Americans want an R0 player, they sell them for like 20 dollars here. My DVD player cost about 30 dollars and it has always worked great (though I hate how it FF's DVD's every time I skip a scene ¬¬).

While looking at the back of a recent Geneon DVD I noticed the following text...

"Licensed only for use in the USA and Canada"

The moment you transport a recent Genon DVD outside of the USA or Canada you're forbidden from watching it, by law. Thanks to international treaties, these laws are in effect for most of the westernized world.

Crap, I'm gonna get busted for this one. Shoot, I've watched Geneon DVD's outside of US and Canada territory. I'm shaking in my boots. :lol:

[Suiko Eiji]

Now that I get w second look at this, there is somthing I want to bring up;

A coworker of mine said that having the software needed to bypass this is ok to have as long as it is used by on your computer with a DVD-ROM. This says that this is wrong.

Any coments?

Comments? Yeah, your co-worker is wrong.

Here's the scenario we were talking about in my InfoSec class the other day: You purchase a commercial DVD and wanting to protect it, so you make a usable copy and store away the one you purchased. Under fair use and back-up laws, you are in the clear. However, most DVDs come with a copyright protection that you may have to bypass the CopyProtect coding, which is, as that law says, illegal. So, you have to do one illegal thing to exercise a right you have. Counter-productive, isn't it?

The problem is that far too many people are involved in trying to write this legislation and none of them are anywhere near well-versed in the technology. To me, it should be the technicians who create these technologies whom should be writing policy and procedure and the lawyers and politicians checking it against pre-existing laws; not the other way around.

[ransom]

It should be also noted that the DMCA contradicts other laws and treaties. If you are sued or proscecuted under the DMCA you can construct a defense using other older aspects of copyright law like Fair Use and in some cases your constitutional rights (varies from country to country).

If I have read the interpretations of US Copyright Law here correctly, then if I get a job in the US, or relocate there through my company, and I bring my Irish/UK purchased DVD collection with me (and my DVD player) and view these in the US, I am committing a crime.

Also note that geographical region coding is not a measure to limit accessibility, per se, but a measure to restrict free trade across borders. This means that region coding could be in breach of international treaties. The people who want to preserve region coding are possibly unwilling to open that can of worms, and have region coding considered illegal (like Australia).

Also I am not certain if region coding is even elevated to the status of a copy protection mechanism (CSS, ARcoSS, etc. are). It is a gentlemans agreement among the members of the DVD Forum, an industry body that includes publishers & manufacturers. A manufacturer who releases a multi-region capable player is in breach of DVD Forum rules, and contracts.

[Suiko Eiji]

It should be also noted that the DMCA contradicts other laws and treaties. If you are sued or proscecuted under the DMCA you can construct a defense using other older aspects of copyright law like Fair Use and in some cases your constitutional rights (varies from country to country).

Hence the example I highlighted above.

Like I said, the legislation put forth really only looks at the technological expansions as seperate cases and not merely as I believe a complete contradiction to pre-existing laws.

[master terrence]

What's the intended purpose of this law? how does this protect the copyright holder?

(I know I ask alot of questions, sorry.)

Can you believe it, you can have two DVD's of the same series, and you are allowed to watch one, but not the other because of the region code. Can this law even be enforced 0_0

[VacantEyes]

Crap, I'm gonna get busted for this one. Shoot, I've watched Geneon DVD's outside of US and Canada territory. I'm shaking in my boots. :lol:

When China wants to silence a dissenter they don't have to break their own laws to do it. Rather, they just selectively enforce one or more of the ******** laws already in on the books. As a US citizen, I don't feel that we should allow even one bad law to be passed simply because we're convinced it won't be enforced on a large scale anytime soon.

It should be also noted that the DMCA contradicts other laws and treaties. If you are sued or proscecuted under the DMCA you can construct a defense using other older aspects of copyright law like Fair Use and in some cases your constitutional rights (varies from country to country).

Spoken like someone who's never had to defend themselves in an American court. I've served as both a defendant and a jury member in an American court room. Can you say the same? Constructing a defense to a criminal or civil charge is both extremely expensive and extremely time consuming. Only a person who's never been challenged in an American court would be foolish enough to believe that they have any chance of winning simply because they have a basic understanding the laws involved.

Also note that geographical region coding is not a measure to limit accessibility, per se, but a measure to restrict free trade across borders. This means that region coding could be in breach of international treaties. The people who want to preserve region coding are possibly unwilling to open that can of worms, and have region coding considered illegal (like Australia).

Here in the US, the region code is considered a limit on access. There is no other possible interpretation that I can glean from the law. Also, the only way an international treaty could be used as any sort of defense is if another country was somehow directly involved. A US citizen breaking a US law on US soil cannot present an international treaty with Australia as part of their defense. In fact, even if the defendant was a US citizen committing the crime on foreign soil or if the defendant was a foreign national committing the crime on US soil the details of any international treaty would still not win your case.

Also I am not certain if region coding is even elevated to the status of a copy protection mechanism (CSS, ARcoSS, etc. are). It is a gentlemans agreement among the members of the DVD Forum, an industry body that includes publishers & manufacturers. A manufacturer who releases a multi-region capable player is in breach of DVD Forum rules, and contracts.

A "gentleman's agreement" is not equal to a contract; in fact they are exact opposites. The rules that govern DVD content protections and access privileges in the US are based on contracts. Next generation digital media such as HD-DVD and Blu-ray and the contracts that go with them were designed to allow much stronger enforcement of these limits by quickly altering media and hardware to help prevent rogue retailers and sloppy manufacturers from providing hardware that can be hacked to allow fewer restrictions.

What's the intended purpose of this law? how does this protect the copyright holder?

(I know I ask alot of questions, sorry.)

Can you believe it, you can have two DVD's of the same series, and you are allowed to watch one, but not the other because of the region code. Can this law even be enforced 0_0

The apparent primary purpose of this law is to close the door on fair-use provisions by making them virtually impossible to actually perform without breaking additional laws. At least, that's the way I read it. Several other organizations appear to agree with my view. You can start with www.eff.org.