Basilisk DVD Question

[HalfBreed]

Does anybody know If the LE dvd cases are reguler keepcases, or cases similar to the one's Speed Grappher has?

[yangster]

It comes out on Aug. 8. So mostly all of us don't know yet.

[tigeress02]

Yeah, same here. I too am curious as to what the cases are like, though I'll be finding out shortly. My copy of the LE recently shipped out, so I'm hoping to get it, at the earliest, by Saturday. If not then, definately by Tuesday. I'll up pics as soon as it arrives.

[Dan]

Since you seem to have bought the Speed Grapher DVDs, can you discribe the special cases? The pictures here dont fully portray them.

Also, last year the FUNi reps were joking about putting a ball gag in with the box + vol. 1, but Im guessing that didnt happen?

They also actually were kicking around the idea of a higher than paper quality scroll of the 20 ninjas for the Basilisk box release, please let me know if anything like that happens. Thanks!

[HalfBreed]

Since you seem to have bought the Speed Grapher DVDs, can you discribe the special cases? The pictures here dont fully portray them.

Also, last year the FUNi reps were joking about putting a ball gag in with the box + vol. 1, but Im guessing that didnt happen?

They also actually were kicking around the idea of a higher than paper quality scroll of the 20 ninjas for the Basilisk box release, please let me know if anything like that happens. Thanks!


Thare like a folded up card bord, that has a slot for holding a booklet, and other stuf. I haven't Bought the Speed Grapher LE dvd's yet, but only seen them in pictures.

PICTURES (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1372031&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

[Dan]

Thare like a folded up card bord, that has a slot for holding a booklet, and other stuf. I haven't Bought the Speed Grapher LE dvd's yet, but only seen them in pictures.

PICTURES (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1372031&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1)

Thanks for the link. FUNimation continues to impress me with their releases, although not always perfect, the effort is very noticable and very appreciated. Even considering how Speed Grapher is kind of only a "par" series, they did emphasize one of its finer points - the art and style.

Also, I loved the Tsujidou filler box... Tsujidou is awesome, I even have cosplayed him, it was one of my favorites.

[Takachsh]

Released image of the Basilisk Box and all its goodies from Funimation.

http://community.funimation.com/forum/upfiles/1/91C32E6EEE2543D5BE256E487976B801.jpg

Another good set from Funimation. I do have my problems with FUNI but when I see this...I start loving them again.

[Dan]

Hmmm.... why the lame scroll when they could have made an awesome scroll of the 10 from Koga and 10 from Iga?

Im actually pretty disappointed. That is now a useless extra. But the cards that appear to eventually have one for each ninja look cool.

[tigeress02]

My copy just showed up today. ^_^ While I'm not too thrilled about the scroll, the box itself makes up for it. It looks like most, if not all, the ninja are present in the artwork on the box and it's stained dark (as you can see from the pic above). Also, the box was made specifically to fit the LE releases so normal cases won't fit inside it (too tall).

If additonal pics are needed, I'm willing to put them up.

[goddessofanime]

I plan on getting this.....is that a book that comes with the box Tigeress?

[tigeress02]

No book in the set. That thing is actually the slipcover that holds the digi-pak together.

[goddessofanime]

Aw poo....

The wall scroll doesn't appeal to me. I think I'll just be getting the single packs.

[Dan]

So what is the box made out of? I didnt look closely enough so I just thought it was cardboard, but is it wood?

[tigeress02]

Yes, it's wood. It's just like the Samurai Deeper Kyo box Media Blasters put out a few years ago except it's stained.

[yangster]

My copy just showed up today. ^_^ While I'm not too thrilled about the scroll, the box itself makes up for it. It looks like most, if not all, the ninja are present in the artwork on the box and it's stained dark (as you can see from the pic above). Also, the box was made specifically to fit the LE releases so normal cases won't fit inside it (too tall).

If additonal pics are needed, I'm willing to put them up.
Even if it is too tall, are the regular cases the same width has the LE? Because I wasn't planning on buying these LE one by one since I only buy during studio sales. -.- Well, I guess I can decide that when I get mine.

[MightyDustLoop]

The release has to be the same as Speed Grapher, so regular editions will undoubtedly be keepcases, while the SE's will be a $5 more MSRP but be tailored to fit in the box.

[The Gevin]

Even considering how Speed Grapher is kind of only a "par" series.
It's the best series I've seen in a long time.

[Dan]

It's the best series I've seen in a long time.

I'm assuming youve seen the whole thing? Also do you watch a lot of anime? Because if this is all you've seen, then that is understandable.

Admittedly, the first about 5 episodes are amazingly engaging and told very well, but then the series really takes a nose dive and becomes too formulaic and surprisingly uncoordinated. By the end I felt it got better, but you just dont care any more by that point. And this isnt even taking the fluctuating animation quality into consideration.

You can imagine I liked the series enough since I cosplayed as Tsujidou, and I respect it for what its worth, but I also respect it enough to realize that its no masterpiece.

[HitokiriShadow]

It's no masterpiece, but it was certainly one of Gonzo's better recent works.

I was planning on waiting for an eventual box set of Basilisk but that box is really tempting. Is Basilisk good all the way through, or does it succumb to Gonzo's usual poor endings?

[Dan]

It's no masterpiece, but it was certainly one of Gonzo's better recent works.

I was planning on waiting for an eventual box set of Basilisk but that box is really tempting. Is Basilisk good all the way through, or does it succumb to Gonzo's usual poor endings?

"Gonzo's usual poor endings"? Since when is anyone other than Studio Gainax associated with poor endings? Also, make sure you understand that many of Gonzo's animations are adaptations. Basilisk is an adaptation, which it follows very well and therefore any opinions on the ending are unrelated to the animation studio that drew it.

That said, Basilisk slows down a lot about halfway through and the ending is pretty unavoidable. If you watch the first episode, you know what's going to happen.

But here's my questions - since when was Duran Duran cut from Speed Grapher?! Was there some legal issues? And what the hell is "Shutter Speed"?

[Takachsh]

But here's my questions - since when was Duran Duran cut from Speed Grapher?! Was there some legal issues? And what the hell is "Shutter Speed"?

Funimation tried to get the rights for Duran Duran 'Girls on Film' but failed since Gonzo spent 2 years trying to get the song rights originaly for speed grapher, so they had no choice and decided to use Shutter Speed from the Speed Grapher OST as the opening song. Its not a bad choice but Duran Duran 'Girls on Film' was just perfect for the series.

[Dan]

Funimation tried to get the rights for Duran Duran 'Girls on Film' but failed since Gonzo spent 2 years trying to get the song rights originaly for speed grapher, so they had no choice and decided to use Shutter Speed from the Speed Grapher OST as the opening song. Its not a bad choice but Duran Duran 'Girls on Film' was just perfect for the series.

Thats a shame. I was also really upset when I heard AN couldnt use the Hare nochi Guu ending theme (or full title for that matter), I hope this doesnt become a trend. (although those were comepletely unrelated)

[HitokiriShadow]

"Gonzo's usual poor endings"? Since when is anyone other than Studio Gainax associated with poor endings?

Since Hellsing, Gantz, Kiddy Grade, Last Exile (I haven't seen that one, but I've heard a lot of disappointment with it)... those are the worst offenders, but that doesn't include ones that didn't offer much to begin with or went to hell in the first few episodes. Even when dealing with adaptations, they knew they were going to have to make their own endings, so they were still responsible for it. Trinity Blood is an exception, to an extent, since the author of the novels its based on died shortly before production began. I say "to an extent" because they still probably were going to have to make an ending and wouldn't be able to cover everything anyways.

The only Gonzo series I can think of with good endings recently are Full Metal Panic (which was decent, if not great) and Speed Grapher. I haven't finished Kaleido Star's second season yet and I haven't started watching Gankutsuou yet, but I haven't heard anything but praise for that one.



But here's my questions - since when was Duran Duran cut from Speed Grapher?! Was there some legal issues? And what the hell is "Shutter Speed"?

It was announced shortly before the first volume came out. Either the company with the rights to the song were charging obscene amounts for the rights or they just wouldn't give it to them. I'm guessing the former as there is really no reason for the latter.

[Dan]

Of the four series you mentioned for having "bad endings", 2 of them are adaptations, which I still dont see how Gonzo could be in the least responsible for.

Even when dealing with adaptations, they knew they were going to have to make their own endings, so they were still responsible for it.

No offense, but that is one of the more ridiculous things Ive heard in a while. An adaptation is not a selective process where the animation studio decides if they "make their own endings". Most adaptations stay true to form, especially with crucial points such as an ending.

The only Gonzo series I can think of with good endings recently are Full Metal Panic (which was decent, if not great) and Speed Grapher. I haven't finished Kaleido Star's second season yet and I haven't started watching Gankutsuou yet, but I haven't heard anything but praise for that one.

So counting up your assesment, you've seen 6 of Gonzo's works that you commented on, and havent seen or finished 3 that you commented on, leaving an additional 22 works unaccounted for since 2001 (I started with Hellsings' age since thats the oldest example we used) that may or may not have good endings, and may or may not be adaptations which from my view, unless they deviate significantly, are not the responsibility of the animation studio. Sorry, but that doesnt hold water for a blanket statement of "usual poor endings" for me.

[HitokiriShadow]

Of the four series you mentioned for having "bad endings", 2 of them are adaptations, which I still dont see how Gonzo could be in the least responsible for.

They chose to adapt a series that had no ending yet. They knew Hellsing and Gantz weren't over and wouldn't be anytime soon. They knew from the beginning that they would have to create their own ending. Even if it had an ending and they more or less stayed accurate to it, they are still responsible for pulling it off in an effective manner. Gonzo is adapting it, therefore they are responsible for how it turns out. How are they not responsible for it?

No offense, but that is one of the more ridiculous things Ive heard in a while. An adaptation is not a selective process where the animation studio decides if they "make their own endings". Most adaptations stay true to form, especially with crucial points such as an ending.

You think so? Just because a company adapts something does not mean they have any obligation to stay true to the source material. "Most adaptations" may (I'm not saying they do, I could easily name at least 10 that don't) stay true to the source material, but that doesn't mean they have to or that Gonzo titles usually do. If they diverge from the source material and do poorly at it or just decide not to do the whole thing, then who is responsible if not the studio that animated it?

So counting up your assesment, you've seen 6 of Gonzo's works that you commented on, and havent seen or finished 3 that you commented on, leaving an additional 22 works unaccounted for since 2001 (I started with Hellsings' age since thats the oldest example we used) that may or may not have good endings, and may or may not be adaptations which from my view, unless they deviate significantly, are not the responsibility of the animation studio. Sorry, but that doesnt hold water for a blanket statement of "usual poor endings" for me.


Okay, so I made a bit of a generalization, but based on my experience and what I've heard from others, Gonzo series have a history of crappy endings, at least in recent years. And Gonzo, not the original mangaka or the TV station that aired the series, or anyone else, is responsible for said crapitude.

[Dan]

They chose to adapt a series that had no ending yet. They knew Hellsing and Gantz weren't over and wouldn't be anytime soon. They knew from the beginning that they would have to create their own ending. Even if it had an ending and they more or less stayed accurate to it, they are still responsible for pulling it off in an effective manner. Gonzo is adapting it, therefore they are responsible for how it turns out. How are they not responsible for it?

Taking these two specific examples, is this just a case of "lets stop here" a la Berserk or Suzuka or any number of series that cant continue to make money in animated form?

You think so? Just because a company adapts something does not mean they have any obligation to stay true to the source material. "Most adaptations" may (I'm not saying they do, I could easily name at least 10 that don't) stay true to the source material, but that doesn't mean they have to or that Gonzo titles usually do.

Not having first hand experience, I cant say specifically, but I would imagine adaptation contracts from the original author and/or publisher call for the material to be adapted faithfully. Of course breathing room is necessary to bring printed material to animated, but that seldomly greatly impacts an ending. And a cut-off is not an ending.

If they diverge from the source material and do poorly at it or just decide not to do the whole thing, then who is responsible if not the studio that animated it?

The key word is "IF". I wouldnt call a cut-off a divergence, so in cases where that happens business is to blame, not animators.


Okay, so I made a bit of a generalization, but based on my experience and what I've heard from others, Gonzo series have a history of crappy endings, at least in recent years. And Gonzo, not the original mangaka or the TV station that aired the series, or anyone else, is responsible for said crapitude.

Thats a big generalization, but as for responsibility, we might have to agree to disagree.

[HitokiriShadow]

Taking these two specific examples, is this just a case of "lets stop here" a la Berserk or Suzuka or any number of series that cant continue to make money in animated form?

Gonzo doesn't seem to take the "cut off" route, at least in my experience. They would prefer to make their own endings. In Hellsing, the entire second half of the series goes off on its own little plot thread and makes an ending. I haven't watched all of Gantz yet, but from what I've read, it seems to block off any continuation.


Not having first hand experience, I cant say specifically, but I would imagine adaptation contracts from the original author and/or publisher call for the material to be adapted faithfully. Of course breathing room is necessary to bring printed material to animated, but that seldomly greatly impacts an ending.

I guess that's the kind of thing that would vary from series to series. There may be contractual obligations in some cases, but when there aren't, they are free to do what they want to the source material. I guess I should have said that the act of adapting someting doesn't necessarily mean staying true to the source material.

And a cut-off is not an ending.

This is true.

The key word is "IF". I wouldnt call a cut-off a divergence, so in cases where that happens business is to blame, not animators.

Cut offs are acceptable. But Gonzo rarely does this. When I say "diverge" I mean they create their own material with no intention or capability of ever going back to the source material afterwards.


Thats a big generalization, but as for responsibility, we might have to agree to disagree.

That may be true, but I'd like to at least try to see eye to eye.

[Dan]

Hey, sorry I went on vacation for 2 days - as a result I learned to never trust maps of Kyoto. One city block is actually more like six, they just arent on the map. <_<

Gonzo doesn't seem to take the "cut off" route, at least in my experience. They would prefer to make their own endings. In Hellsing, the entire second half of the series goes off on its own little plot thread and makes an ending. I haven't watched all of Gantz yet, but from what I've read, it seems to block off any continuation.

Ok, well that certainly is uncommon and unwelcome in my book since I prefer faithful adaptations unless they're supposed to be different. Still, this doesnt justify a Gainax-esque label of poor endings.

What I mean by that is that (taking Gainax as the perfect example), chronologically Evangelion, KareKano, Mahoromatic, Abenobashi, Konomini, and Diebuster have all been widely regarded as having poor endings (or in Diebuster's case is just terrible in general), whether or not the majority even believes this. So that leaves about 5 works left that are pretty low-profile save FLCL and maybe Gunbster. So thats 6:5, bad:good which is pretty bad. Added to that is the suggestion that they TRY to make these sorts of endings and hence the reputation (regardless of my actual feelings, thats pretty much how people see it).

Gonzo on the other hand appears to have made creative decisions gone wrong. Also, even though they have animated some popular stuff, they still havent reached the scale that Gainax has, and their true gems are arguably less considered (take Gankutsuou, which is probably their finest work, but no one seems to care). Still it also appears their majority is adaptations, so that also further removes them a little in my opinion, usually when I hear "Gozno's doing X" I think "great, their animation is superb", not "oh, what will they end up with this time". And I think thats the general impression.

But it really does end up to opinion, for example, you felt the Hellsing ending was really bad; and I just thought the entire thing was lame (never made it to the end). I think thats where I remove the animators if I know its an adaptation and I just dont like it at all.

[Curse_7781]

Right on Dan! *thumbs up*

I also agree with what HitokiriShadow as well about Gonzo's adaptions and creative choices on the endings on their shows....Hellsing was terrible (I saw the whole thing, while it had a good concept...the execution in animation and in the creative direction was flawed). I also heard from similar folks that have seen Last Exile (I dropped halfway of watching it as it wasn't reaching to my expectations) that the ending wasn't very fulfilling....the same reaction can be said to GANTZ as it did leave a bad taste in the viewers mouth considering it was pretty faithful to manga throughout the the first and second season until the last couple of episodes which changed the storyline and then made up the ambigious ending.

As for Basilisk, I'm getting the rest of the series (I already have the first DVD volume) as I heard it was very faithful adaption to the manga and it was very exciting anime that feature cool action with very excellent drama.

Enhance the Trance,
Curse

[Dan]

Right on Dan! *thumbs up*

I also agree with what HitokiriShadow as well about Gonzo's adaptions and creative choices on the endings on their shows....Hellsing was terrible (I saw the whole thing, while it had a good concept...the execution in animation and in the creative direction was flawed). I also heard from similar folks that have seen Last Exile (I dropped halfway of watching it as it wasn't reaching to my expectations) that the ending wasn't very fulfilling....the same reaction can be said to GANTZ as it did leave a bad taste in the viewers mouth considering it was pretty faithful to manga throughout the the first and second season until the last couple of episodes which changed the storyline and then made up the ambigious ending.

As for Basilisk, I'm getting the rest of the series (I already have the first DVD volume) as I heard it was very faithful adaption to the manga and it was very exciting anime that feature cool action with very excellent drama.

Enhance the Trance,
Curse


Maybe they're slowly becomeing a "bad-ending company" but I wouldnt say they're there yet.

As for Basilisk's adaptation, it is pretty faithful save extra scenes (mostly of the heirs as children and other flashbacks). This almost works against it though as some of the later episodes have to fit the episode format (i.e leave on a cliffhanger and be 22 minutes long). So there are a lot of long drawn out scenes that give a different feel in the manga, and some that are WAY to short, like (not spoiling) some important scenes with Kagerou, who I found interesting.