Dumb Question

[Israfel64]

What is that weird statue thing that Kaoru is standing on in episode 25 (Uncut) ? It's also in the credits for Evangelion: Death, and In the begining scene of EOE.

[Maffew]

You know what? I don't frigging know! ******** hell, I'm out of touch with NGE.

[Reichu]

This isn't really a "dumb question". The "Angel Statue" (tenshizou) is a visual symbol that interweaves Kaworu/Adam with the Eva Series, Rei/Lilith, and maybe even other Evas and Angels as well. I'm still not sure precisely what the statue is meant to represent. I threw together a little something (http://www.evacommentary.org/misc-files/tenshizou/tenshizou.html) a couple of years back, but it's somewhat outdated.

Just for two missing items that are already in my Photobucket, one with Adam:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/tenshizou/15_adam_bw.jpg

And one with Rei:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/tenshizou/m26_C397.jpg

The original, for reference:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/Reichu/tenshizou/death_C1354.jpg

[Maffew]

My mind is at ease.

[Israfel64]

Thank you, that clears things up.

[Reichu]

Yer welcome. As I said earlier, I think there's more to the statue than that mentioned in the 2004 presentation, but, aside from various related visuals, I'm not entirely sure what. One big question of mine is the decision to have the right wing (mostly) broken off. And, might the boobies also be there to poke at Kaworu's inherent status as female and mother? Well, you know, Adam doesn't have them, but they're still symbolic if you're of Lilim mindset.

[Vaikyuko]

Yer welcome. As I said earlier, I think there's more to the statue than that mentioned in the 2004 presentation, but, aside from various related visuals, I'm not entirely sure what. One big question of mine is the decision to have the right wing (mostly) broken off. And, might the boobies also be there to poke at Kaworu's inherent status as female and mother? Well, you know, Adam doesn't have them, but they're still symbolic if you're of Lilim mindset.

I don't see how the statue having boobs affects Kaworu at all, actually, but let's not get into that old argument again. XD

[Reichu]

I don't see how the statue having boobs affects Kaworu at all, actually, but let's not get into that old argument again. XD
"Inherent status" = Adam, mother of the Apostles.

If you try hard enough, you can see femme-Kaworu even when she isn't there, eh?

[Dr. Nick]

Because this is the best image I've ever seen, and also slightly relevant to the topic at hand:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Dr-Nick/random%20anime/symbolism.jpg

[Maffew]

Nice image.

[Jabberwok]

I'm going to have to say, looking at the elements of the statue that stand out (the pronounced vertebrae, the wings, the boobies, the posture, and the head damage), I think the more accurate reference is to this...
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8386/teadam1gq7.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teadam1gq7.jpg)

The statue is on the shore of the 'Psycho Hazard Area', the crater left after Rei fragged herself. I'm sure there's some symbology :P there that I'm missing, but I'll leave it at that.

[Israfel64]

I have two more dumb questions. The first one concerning souls...

Ok...

Zerogouki: Soul of Rei I I assume.

Shogouki: Soul of Yui Ikari

Nigouki: Soul of Kiyoko Zepplin Soryu

Sangouki: Who?

Yongouki: Who? (And for that matter, what pilot was planned for unit-04? Kensuke? Hikari?)

Harpies: Souls of Kaworu clones I assume.

And for my second question,

In EoE, there is a quick scene of Asuka and Shinji in a "durring sex" moment. (When Asuka says "YOUR SO ANNOYING!") So...Is this an instumentallity thing or a flashback?

[Shin-seiki]

I have two more dumb questions. The first one concerning souls...

Ok...

Zerogouki: Soul of Rei I I assume.Pretty safe assumption, IMHO

Shogouki: Soul of Yui Ikari

Nigouki: Soul of Kiyoko Zepplin Soryu

Sangouki: Who?Toji's mom, naturally

Yongouki: Who? (And for that matter, what pilot was planned for unit-04? Kensuke? Hikari?)Insufficient data to reach any sort of definite conclusion. However, see first post in "Go Hikari"

Harpies: Souls of Kaworu clones I assume.Hmm... Reichu has long advocated that they're the souls of random unknown females.
And for my second question,

In EoE, there is a quick scene of Asuka and Shinji in a "durring sex" moment. (When Asuka says "YOUR SO ANNOYING!") So...Is this an instumentallity thing or a flashback?Instrumentality, tho you could say that it harkens back, in a way, to Asuka's unsuccessful attempt to hook up with Shinji while Misato was out for the night (see also #15) in #09.

Edit: Highly relevant thread to that last question (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127755)

[Israfel64]

Hey thanks

Hmm... Reichu has long advocated that they're the souls of random unknown females.

That's...Interesting, but if Rei's clone is used for her Eva, wouldn't Kaowru's clones pilot his Evas?

[Shin-seiki]

Hey thanks



That's...Interesting, but if Rei's clone is used for her Eva, wouldn't Kaowru's clones pilot his Evas?I think her reasoning is that the Harpies break their cores with their Spears in #26, in order to free their (presumably Lilim) souls to take part in Instrumentality. I believe it was actually Eva Monkey who first proposed that idea, now that I think about it...

[Reichu]

I think her reasoning is that the Harpies break their cores with their Spears in #26, in order to free their (presumably Lilim) souls to take part in Instrumentality. I believe it was actually Eva Monkey who first proposed that idea, now that I think about it...
YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!

Their orgasmic suicides is the last thing that happens in the "Sweet Death" lineup; destroying their cores means that the Eva Series' souls would be released, much as the souls of mortals are released by having their bodies sploosh into LCL. (Destroy the container, release its contents.) After that, we see a sideways shot of a drop of blood falling into LCL, then we get all of the crosses, and the shouting, and the souls flying to Shekinah, etc. Eva Monkey's idea is thusfar the only one I've heard proposed that provides a logical explanation for the harpies' actions and fits in with the sequence of events.

It's also been suggested that they are endowed with 'imprints' of Adam's soul. Clearly not the original in any way, as we're specifically told that Adam's "salvaged soul exists only in [Kaworu]". However, the soul imprint theory (which I don't care to get into the specifics of; do a search or something :P ) does seem to still have applicability after all; it just needs to be tweaked to accomodate the weird stuff in the NGE2 CI. The CI lets us know that the 'intended purpose' of Yui and Kyoko's CEs was to, apparently, create copies of souls, but, that being an impossible endeavor, an "artificial soul" was finally created with the Dummy System. So could the harpies, in theory, contain "artificial souls" based upon Adam's, and the reason why they killed themselves is something else?

i dunno lol

Regarding Yongouki: EVA-03's core wasn't 'prepared' until she reached Matsumoto -- with the Fourth Children chosen, and all -- so it probably would have been a similar deal with EVA-04.

[Longinus Fork]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Israfel64
I have two more dumb questions. The first one concerning souls...

Ok...

Zerogouki: Soul of Rei I I assume.
Pretty safe assumption, IMHO

how can the soul of Rei 1 be in unit 00 if her soul is currently in rei 3?

[Reichu]

how can the soul of Rei 1 be in unit 00 if her soul is currently in rei 3?
It can't be, because EVA-00 blew up before Rei 3 came out of the tank. :P

[Longinus Fork]

Ritsuko gave the order to scavenge the plug - probably to salvage rei 2's soul and put it into rei 3's body.

[Reichu]

Ritsuko gave the order to scavenge the plug - probably to salvage rei 2's soul and put it into rei 3's body.
(Yes, I know. I was busting your chops for the wording of your prior question.)

[Longinus Fork]

so how IS Rei 1's soul in unit-00????

[Shin-seiki]

so how IS Rei 1's soul in unit-00????Check out this old post (http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=545256#545256).

[Israfel64]

Has anyone ever noticed the similarities between Vanilla Sky and EoE?

(Spoiler for Vanilla Sky)

At the end of the movie, Tom Cruse (I forget character name) has too decide if he wants to continue his surreal life fake joy, or if he wants to go back to the real world where things are not so ok.

I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this

[Jabberwok]

No, you're not. I was kinda waiting for Unit-01 to poke her head up over the edge of the building in that last scene.

Good flick.

[Israfel64]

What exactly made Kyoko go insane?

[Ornette]

What exactly made Kyoko go insane?
B. Generally Recognized Information

Asuka's mother, Kyoko Zeppelin Soryu, carried out the Contact Experiment with Eva. As a result, she fell prey to a mental illness so severe that she could no longer recognize her own daughter.

D. In-Depth Information

When Asuka's mother carried out the experiment with the Eva's core, only part of her soul -- the maternal component that loves her daughter above all else -- remained within Eva Unit 02. This is the reason why she could not recognize her daughter.
Also the fact that Asuka's father was screwing around with a doctor probably did little to help.

[CanonRAP]

Was it just me, or was the timing for Shinji's wank session different? I should check the numbers. (Can you males really do it that fast? Eep.)

Completely irrelevant, but I just saw this, and....what???

so how IS Rei 1's soul in unit-00????

"It's Just A Rei Thing."

(no, I don't remember the explanation, and I don't feel like going through the thread for some reason...)

Hmm... Reichu has long advocated that they're the souls of random unknown females.

Seele women? Or just another dozen depressed scientists?

[Israfel64]

-_-; Ugh, I hate being such a noob to all of this hard-core NGE info...But I there is still something that bothers me...the whole Lilith/Adam/Angel thing.

Ok, here is what (I think) I know...

(Please correct me)

Adam was supposed to create the life on earth, but Lilith arrived (via black moon) and sent Adam into a susspended state with the Lance of Longinus after a battle (Dual of the seeds). So Lilith created the life on earth (Lilim) instead of Adam. In the end, somehow, Lilith stays in the future spot of the Geofront (Which is her egg/Black Moon...right?), and Adam is left in Anartica (along with the Lance). And in the year 2000 thousand, 2I is started when they tried to remove the Lance from Adam (Right?)(And if that is true why the hell did he go from a being of light to an embryo?)

And here is where I get completly lost...

So Gehirn digs up Lilith under Tokyo-3 and shoved her in Terminal Dogma.

(So Lilith didn't put up a fight? Is she in a susspended state too?)
(If Shogouki was created from Lilith, why does she look exactally like Adam?)
(I assume NERV is keeping Lilith AND Adam for 3I reasons...Right?)
(Why did NERV go back to Anartica and get Lilith's Lance and give it back to her? She seemed fine with out it...plus she had legs when she had no Lance)
(And lastly, are the angel born from Adam or Lilith? And whoever they came from, how are the comming from a crucified marshmello/Orange embryo?)

Sry for all the question, I'm just so confused

[Shin-seiki]

-_-; Ugh, I hate being such a noob to all of this hard-core NGE info...But I there is still something that bothers me...the whole Lilith/Adam/Angel thing.

Ok, here is what (I think) I know...

(Please correct me)

Adam was supposed to create the life on earth, but Lilith arrived (via black moon) and sent Adam into a susspended state with the Lance of Longinus after a battle (Dual of the seeds).The "Duel of the Seeds" theory unfortunately has turned out to be contradicted in some crucial details (http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=580022#580022) by the NGE2 Classified Info.So Lilith created the life on earth (Lilim) instead of Adam.Um, yes. LCL = Lilith's blood, the primordial "soup of life" from which, over billions of years, life evolved. In the end, somehow, Lilith stays in the future spot of the Geofront (Which is her egg/Black Moon...right?), and Adam is left in Anartica (along with the Lance). And in the year 2000 thousand, 2I is started when they tried to remove the Lance from Adam (Right?)(And if that is true why the hell did he go from a being of light to an embryo?)2I is a mystery. Even the CI says that we'll never know precisely what happened, because everyone involved (except Misato, who was in no condition to tell) was wiped out.And here is where I get completly lost...

So Gehirn digs up Lilith under Tokyo-3 and shoved her in Terminal Dogma.

(So Lilith didn't put up a fight? Is she in a susspended state too?)She may have been exhausted by the process of single-handedly creating the earth's biosphere, and spent the last couple billion years asleep in the Black Moon (If Shogouki was created from Lilith, why does she look exactally like Adam?)Lilith was a surrogate mother, but Shogouki was still derived from Adam, just like all the other Evas
(I assume NERV is keeping Lilith AND Adam for 3I reasons...Right?)Short answer: yes(Why did NERV go back to Anartica and get Lilith's Lance and give it back to her? She seemed fine with out it...plus she had legs when she had no Lance)From the CI (22-D):
D. In-Depth Information

For the purpose of opening the Path to Divinity, Gendo and Seele brought Lilith's growth to a point just before the final stage, and to temporarily delay this they are having Nerv transport the Spear of Longinus that was paired with Adam.(And lastly, are the angel born from Adam or Lilith? And whoever they came from, how are the comming from a crucified marshmello/Orange embryo?)The Angels are the direct offspring of Adam. The Evas are artificial, bio-engineered Franken-angels

[Reichu]

The "Duel of the Seeds" theory unfortunately has turned out to be contradicted in some crucial details (http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=580022#580022) by the NGE2 Classified Info.
It's a lot cooler than whatever exactly the CI may or may not be saying, though.

2I is a mystery. Even the CI says that we'll never know precisely what happened, because everyone involved (except Misato, who was in no condition to tell) was wiped out.
Adam could always tell us. (Or, you know, those three guys who know everything.)

She may have been exhausted by the process of single-handedly creating the earth's biosphere, and spent the last couple billion years asleep in the Black Moon
They bolted her hands down while Sho was being "generated". Was that just to do a floor-crucifiction, or to restrain her? (Or both.)

Lilith was a surrogate mother, but Shogouki was still derived from Adam, just like all the other Evas
This one actually IS debatable. The EoE Theatrical Program suggests (= more Fine Ambiguity For Effect) that by 'Lilith's alter ego [bunshin]', they mean that EVA-01 is a "copy" of Lilith.

I like how, at the end of the very same episode, EVA-01 sprouts wings of light while a bizarre sound effect recalling the Wings of Light in #12 (= Adam) plays. Then when Lilith sprouts her own wings, they aren't even the same type. "Um, what? I thought you guys just said...?"

[kaos]

They bolted her hands down while Sho was being "generated". Was that just to do a floor-crucifiction, or to restrain her? (Or both.)
Is it possible that they have something to do with the Doors of Guf slits since the nails are inserted in the same spot?

[Ornette]

Technically, crucification involves putting nails through the wrists, not hands.

[Soluzar]

Technically, crucification involves putting nails through the wrists, not hands.

Yeah, but you know full well that most people would never associate nails in the wrist with crucifixion. They've seen too many pictures of the Holy Stigmata, and they are always shown as being in the middle of the palms.

[kaos]

Technically, crucification involves putting nails through the wrists, not hands.Yeah, but it's not like Lilith was trying to imitate Christ. Seele just kind of retro-fit their theology into what they saw in the DSS. It's not like they're going to say, "Well, the DoG aren't in the wrists. I guess we've been wrong about this whole Instrumentalith Project thing all this time." -_-;

[Reichu]

Once the DoG stuff came to light, I was finally able to forgive them for the crucifiction botch. "Oh, damn. They have a potential excuse now, since the palms are important in that Doors of Guf sort of way." Aside from being a nice place to stick bolts and Spears through, notice that Gendo put Adam in his palm, as well. How strange, yet intriguing.