One More AIR MASTER Thread

[Milky Mixer]

Ok, obviously I have fallen in love with AIR MASTER because I keep posting about it. I'm close to finishing the DVD set I acquired, but since it's not a legit release I've had to endure the sometimes crappy subtitles and subpar video quality. Still, the show shines for me and I'd LOVE to either get my hands on the manga or a decent (and complete) R1 release.

So my question is this: what are the odds of Air Master ever getting another chance in the US? The manga is something like 20 volumes in Japan (which makes me think it's been reasonably successful over there), and I think had the anime release been successful here, the manga might have possibly been licensed. Did bad word of mouth about the flubbed dvd release (and let's face it, anime fans can be really picky about what kind of quality we've come to expect with our releases, whether it's a bad manga translation or a dvd without chapter stops) also give the impression that Air Master is a crappy show...? Maybe I'm the only guy who finds this show both fun and oddly compelling, but does the failed release by Toie pretty much mean this series will never be considered by another company like Geneon or Bandai or (help me) ADV? What about the manga - could Tokyopop or Viz or someone else potentially license this title? Or, with the constant flow of new anime and new manga, have people simply moved on?

Also, if I was looking for a similar series, what would you recommend?

[Crawlspace]

Air Master was a niche title to begin with, but personally, I think it would have done well in that niche if Toei had handled things better. It was getting good word of mouth until the first disc came out, and people seemed to understand that it was the quality of the release and not the series that had issues. The fans still want it, provided it's a good release. Heck, some of them were even buying the Toei discs. Now that'd a dedicated fan.

I still think there's hope for the manga, as this sort of thing sells well to young males, though for whatever reason I see it going to Viz. Their censoring of certain elements worries me in that regard (do you know where Mina's love radar came from?). As for the anime, while it's not totally impossible, it's not really likely. Like, maybe a .19999% chance of it ever seeing the light of day in R1 again.

[VidelCoolGirl]

I loved AirMaster also. I was angry over the lack of Toei doing a craptacular job with the DVDs, but then my friend just burned me all the fansubbed episodes, and I was happy.

I rather dislike the manga. The story is pretty much the same, but the art makes it hard for me to read. It's not as "colorful" as most manga. Which usually doenst matter for me, but the art is one of the things I look for most in a manga.

As far as an anime thats like AirMaster, I suppose Ayane's High Kick (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=515) is always a good choice.

[Dinco]

I don't really undestand the term "niche title" being thrown around so much on anime boards. No ofense, Crawlspace. Anime arguably is a niche genre to begin with. Pretty much everything other than super mainstream titles like DBZ and Inuyasha are going to be niche titles.

[Crawlspace]

^How about niche within a niche? ;)

[Milky Mixer]

Yeah, I'm not sure why this title would be considered "niche." If anything, I think it's loaded with elements I see ADV typically exploiting in their anime marketing: fanservice (Mina's breasts, Maki's panty shots), cool and sometimes mindless action/violence/fighting (the show is all about fighting your way to the top and breaking a few bones and drawing some blood along the way), comedy. To me it could appeal to all kinds of fans... It's even got the yuri element which brings in another market, and it's even got a shojo element to it with the girls and their relationships, going to school, overcoming the odds, the emotional stuff we see with characters like Maki and Kai. And who doesn't love Kaori Sakiyama? So I don't see why this would be a "niche" title. I guess we disagree on that one, Crawlspace, but I'm glad that you said the fans still want an R1 release. I'd love Media Blasters to pick it up! And Dark Horse can do the manga, heh!

I really want someone to give this series another chance. Aren't there other titles out there that were unexpectedly discontinued only to be later picked up by another company? I know it probably won't make a difference, but I'm thinking of mailing some letters off to the various US anime and manga companies, maybe just to plant a seed. Also not sure if Toie would be willing to license the property out since they sorta saw it blow up in their own faces. But I figure I might as well assert my fandom, right?

[Crawlspace]

^I actually would agree with you on the theoretical popularity of the show. But when it was first put out, the general belief seemed to be that this was going to have limited appeal, mainly because of the character designs. They turned a lot of people off, so it was becoming more a cult series than something more widespread. If the series had been handled correctly, I think that would have changed over time. This would have fit in nicely on AnimeOnDemand, or possibly even Adult Swim, as it has that mindless, fun feel to it that average young males like. And the positive word of mouth the series proper was getting would have helped tremendiously in that regard. It was just a matter of getting over the look of the characters, because even the animation was good, with the fight scenes very fluid and the quality holding throughout. If only the translation and subtitles had been a little better, because even the discs themselves were great (I could have lived without chapter stops). High episode counts, low price, great A/V quality. Gah! What a waste!

Incidently, now I feel a need to pull out Air Master and watch it again. ^_^

[Leader Desslock]

^I actually would agree with you on the theoretical popularity of the show. But when it was first put out, the general belief seemed to be that this was going to have limited appeal, mainly because of the character designs. They turned a lot of people off...
Agreed, and I'd point to Milky Mixer's new avatar (no offense MM) as an example of what I think the typical anime fan would find kind of... I dunno - silly? Cartoony? Something...

The series Tenshi na Konamaiki is another series that I'd say has great potential, but I doubt will ever get licensed simply because of the character designs. I think that's a pity, because it features Megumi Hayashibara in the kind of lead role she does well. It's just really hard to get past that... lip... thing.

Air Master's one of those titles I was going to check out, but then it became a reminder of why I try to avoid series until they're completed and completely released. I hate having a series cut short. Until it gets a full R1 release, it's off my radar.

[Milky Mixer]

Agreed, and I'd point to Milky Mixer's new avatar (no offense MM) as an example of what I think the typical anime fan would find kind of... I dunno - silly? Cartoony? Something...

The series Tenshi na Konamaiki is another series that I'd say has great potential, but I doubt will ever get licensed simply because of the character designs. I think that's a pity, because it features Megumi Hayashibara in the kind of lead role she does well. It's just really hard to get past that... lip... thing.

Air Master's one of those titles I was going to check out, but then it became a reminder of why I try to avoid series until they're completed and completely released. I hate having a series cut short. Until it gets a full R1 release, it's off my radar.

Seriously? The character designs may be somewhat atypical I guess, but looking at series that have had successes in the US - Inuyasha, Dragon Ball, Cowboy Bebop, Sailor Moon to name a few of the bigger ones... how are these any less "cartoony or silly?" Not to mention that none of them look the same as the others. I personally really love the look of the characters in Air Master. I don't see why the character designs would prevent someone from checking out and/or enjoying this series.

[Leader Desslock]

For some people, character designs matter. For some people, it's other stuff. Believe it or not, there are actually some people who will never give Bebop a chance because it's popular. There are people who will never give Avatar and Oban Star-Racer a chance because they're not 'anime'. There are people who will never give Appleseed a chance because it's CGI. There are people who will never give Princess Mononoke a chance because Studio Ghibli is too "Disney". There are people who will never give Yamato a chance because it's older animation. And yes, believe it or not, there are actually people who will never give Eureka Seven a chance because they think the concept of "surfing mecha" sounds retarded.

From the people hung up on character designs, I've heard some of them say that they'll never watch Ranma 1/2 'because all the characters have poofy hair'. Many reviews I've read of Tenshi na Konamaiki start out with "It's good, once you get past the character designs!" One Piece gets slammed for it as well. Air Master is just another series with atypical character designs; it's natural to expect that it'd lose some immediate visual appeal for it.

However - comparing your current avatar to InuYasha? Bebop? Nah, that's not even close. Your avatar is closer to a One Piece level of goofy looking. I have to assume that's an unflattering shot of the main character, though.

Of course, the case is moot. The license is owned, and the R1 has been shot down midway for an indefinite period of time. Because it's licensed, many folks who download fansubs won't know about the title or download it. For all practical purposes, the title is dead. Oh, well. Such is life in the volatile entertainment industry. Time to move on. May it continue to entertain you, and may you keep interest in the title alive until someone decides to ressurect it. Good luck.

[Milky Mixer]

Desslock, the first time I read your latest reply I couldn't tell if you were being genuine or if you were trying to push my buttons. But I've decided on reread that you are being genuine.

I can see your point about how judgmental anime fans can be - heck, I'm probably even guilty of not giving certain shows a chance for whatever reason. So I guess if the character designs are a turnoff for someone who only likes a certain style, they'd probably pass on Air Master. However, I personally do not find the designs all that "goofy." Different, sure. But again, I guess that's a matter of personal taste or choice. (I would personally find Ranma and Inuyasha or that little foxdemon or Bobobobobo goofier than Air Master's lead character, Maki - but then I can see how the exagerrated breasts of Mina would certainly be considered goofy, or the perpetually hungry Renge would be considered goofy... it is an action comedy, but I see your point. Just saying "goofy" is in the eye of the beholder.) And I like my avatar, thank you very much. She's sticking out her tongue! :P

Your final paragraph had me wondering if you were just saying, "We're sick of you talking about Air Master, it's dead, get over it." I hope that's not the case, as everyone probably has a show that they love or a cause they feel should be championed. And like I said, on reread I decided you were probably being genuine.

My question really had to do with the odds of someone else picking the series up - obviously it's not unheard of, as Tokyopop has just picked up some "dead" series that ADV manga dropped. And I do not know the specifics of the license. If Toie released the series in Japan, would they technically have licensed the show to themselves in the US - or could they simply grant the license to another company that expressed interest in the show? I assume Toie is "dead" in the US, otherwise, so I don't see why someone else wouldn't purse the show if there was an interest. And maybe there isn't, maybe that's what Crawlspace is saying about "niche market." Also, given the fickleness of some anime fans and especially those only interested in the newest of the new series, it's highly probable that people have simply "moved on" and that Air Master will never get a chance again unless it gets a bump from something like Adult Swim where more people will be exposed to it and not just consider it "the show that died halfway through with the goofy looking characters." Have I moved on? No, I guess not, since I just got into the show a couple months back. And I have my tacky bootleg to watch, right or wrong, and enjoy whenever I want. But I would still support an R1 re-release, and I think some others would as well - epsecially if the licensee were a well-established company who stepped up and said "We are committed to completing the series." I would also support a manga release. We may have different points of view on this.

I'm curious what Ask John's thoughts on this are, as well... He may agree with you, that she show is a lost cause. But hey, someone's gotta carry Maki's banner, right? :P

[Milky Mixer]

I can't believe they said my avatar was goofy!! :crybaby:
I think the Starwberry Marshmallow banner is goofy!! <_<

[Leader Desslock]

Desslock, the first time I read your latest reply I couldn't tell if you were being genuine or if you were trying to push my buttons. But I've decided on reread that you are being genuine.
I like using shock humor for emphasis, but yes, I was being genuine.

Your final paragraph had me wondering if you were just saying, "We're sick of you talking about Air Master, it's dead, get over it." I hope that's not the case, as everyone probably has a show that they love or a cause they feel should be championed.
Yeah, but I take that sort of thing in perspective. I really want to see Tenshi na Konamaiki licensed, so I mention it in licensing conversations like this one. I'd really love to see the original Space Battleship Yamato licensed, but if I'd gone on for twenty years about it, it'd be getting kind of old by now. I recommend it when relevant, but I don't need to try and second-guess the industry by predicting when or if it'll ever be licensed. Recommending the title keeps it in a few peoples' minds, and that's enough for me. If it's ever licensed, I'll hear about it.

Prons carries the Ideon banner by just putting a line in his sig. Other people write long rants about their favorite series. Good luck carrying your banner, however you decide to do it. :thumbsup:

[Crawlspace]

However, I personally do not find the designs all that "goofy." Different, sure.

I would say ugly before either goofy or different. They're visually unappealing when compared to the average anime style of cute girls, attractive women, bishounen, and hot studs. I'll admit I'm not a fan of the artwork used on the dvd covers. I found the actual anime images more appealing, relatively speaking. But with the exception of Maki's little sister and the token cute guy who's trapped in a yaoi fantasy, they're all ugly by anime standards. People go "ewwww" more than they go "that looks silly" I think.

But I still love the show and would be insanely happy if Toei would get over themselves and let another company bid on it. Geneon, RSI, or AN preferably (best three for quality), assuming any of them or any one else wants the license.

[Milky Mixer]

Now we've gone from goofy to ugly!!! :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:
What' so wrong with being a little different? :uhh:

:P

[Gannon]

And I like my avatar, thank you very much. She's sticking out her tongue!

Waitaminute...THAT'S A WOMAN?!

[Leader Desslock]

Yeah. Here's another good pic:

http://www.animeondvd.com/images/newanime/airmaster3.jpg

The shots I really think are indicative of the show's visual nature are here:

http://www.animeondvd.com/images/newanime/airmaster4.jpg
http://jeannero.free.fr/dessins-animes-2/AirMaster.jpg
http://www.ottawa-anime.org/~eyevocal/beingupfront/pictures/airmmak1.jpg

...because anyone who's gone to school with gymnasts knows that they're large-busted, masculine looking women that tower over their classmates, right? :lol:

The reviews I've read are generally along the following lines:

To put it plainly, the plot of Air Master is a thin mesh that barely holds together what is primarily a long string of fights.... Thinner than even the plot of Air Master is its characterization. Most of the players here are not even bearable, mush less memorable...

Luckily, this title isn't all bad. True to its genre, Air Master finds itself most at home when action is flashing across the screen. The fight scenes are fluid and interesting, often showcasing a wide variety of marital arts styles that, while not at all realistic, are at least devoid of the conventional energy-blasting, super-speed nonsense that tends to be most common in this style of show...

...Beyond the fight scenes though, the animation is mostly just a big can of ugly.

I had to add the last line simply to tie in the character design issue we've been talking about. :lol: In short, Air Master is evidently not much of a title to look at or think about, but it's fun to watch for the fights. Which is about all I expected out of the title, when all's said and done. If it's ever released, I'll give it a rental.

[Crawlspace]

I watched it for the yuri, and I wasn't disappointed. ^_^ And I thought the characters were likable fore the most part. I even like the really annoying little one with the kitten on her head. Cripes, why can't I remember her name all of a sudden?

[Milky Mixer]

Yeah. Here's another good pic:

http://www.animeondvd.com/images/newanime/airmaster3.jpg

The shots I really think are indicative of the show's visual nature are here:

http://www.animeondvd.com/images/newanime/airmaster4.jpg
http://jeannero.free.fr/dessins-animes-2/AirMaster.jpg
http://www.ottawa-anime.org/~eyevocal/beingupfront/pictures/airmmak1.jpg

...because anyone who's gone to school with gymnasts knows that they're large-busted, masculine looking women that tower over their classmates, right? :lol:

The reviews I've read are generally along the following lines:



I had to add the last line simply to tie in the character design issue we've been talking about. :lol: In short, Air Master is evidently not much of a title to look at or think about, but it's fun to watch for the fights. Which is about all I expected out of the title, when all's said and done. If it's ever released, I'll give it a rental.

What, now you're providing screencaps to "prove" how "ugly" you think the show is? So you don't care for it... we get it. I personally dig the show and its look. To each their own, right?

As for the characters, I really like them too. I like how most of Maki's opponents eventually come to not only respect her but like her as well. I like that Maki is a bit of a buffoon, but she's also quiet and introspective, graceful, a loyal friend, a bit of a smartass (especially with Kaori), fiercely motivated, and deep down still a young girl yearning to recapture those seconds of "flight" she felt when she was a gymnist. The beauty of the character comes through, regardless of whether she's masculine-looking or not the typical anime cutie.

Oh, and Crawlspace, the little one with the kitten is Renge.

[Leader Desslock]

What, now you're providing screencaps to "prove" how "ugly" you think the show is?
Just supporting my earlier statements with examples of how is perceived by lots of folks, not just myself. Which was what we were discussing, I thought. I was talking to Gannon. Chill.

As for the characters, I really like them too.
You might wish to avoid the rest of the THEMAnime review, then... :lol:

[Gannon]

Yeah, that's ugly. No question about it.

Why not just draw males? I mean, did the artists' like breasts THAT much? Because if you erase their busts that's pretty much what you get-- a bunch of dudes in skirts. Heck, I'm still not entirely convinced that's not what I'm looking at now.

Now this may be okay for some, and that's fine, but she-male anime has never been my bag.

I like how most of Maki's opponents eventually come to not only respect her but like her as well.

Yeah, because we know how uncommon that is in fighting anime.

[Milky Mixer]

Just supporting my earlier statements with examples of how is perceived by lots of folks, not just myself. Which was what we were discussing, I thought. I was talking to Gannon. Chill.


I'm chilled, thanks. You don't like the character designs. Got it. :-"

[Milky Mixer]

Yeah, because we know how uncommon that is in fighting anime.

Well excuuuuse me, mr. know-it-all-anime-fan. Jesus.

I also like the opening and ending theme songs. Am I allowed to legitimately like those, even though other anime shows may also have cool opening and ending theme songs?

[Milky Mixer]

John, regardless of the petty bickering back and forth (and yes, I admit, I contributed to that in my last few posts), I would still appreciate hearing your thoughts on Air Master and what, if any, future US release possibilites its anime and manga might have.

Thanks! :P

[VidelCoolGirl]

I watched it for the yuri, and I wasn't disappointed. ^_^ And I thought the characters were likable fore the most part. I even like the really annoying little one with the kitten on her head. Cripes, why can't I remember her name all of a sudden?

The yuri aspect was sorta cute, but Maki's dense attitude was annoying. I couldnt really tell if she got Mina's feelings, or was just dumb.

Renge....that stupid little girl. The cat was cool, but I could not stand that girl, her voice sounded like a japanese version of Rosanne crossed over with Phylis Diller.

[Crawlspace]

The yuri aspect was sorta cute, but Maki's dense attitude was annoying. I couldnt really tell if she got Mina's feelings, or was just dumb.

I tend to think Maki got it. She was just socially inept. Not dumb, but really not used to other people and the things they do. Her first encounter with Jullieta is a good example of that. But from what I've heard, it's a bit clearer in the manga, though there is that one brief shot of them in bed together in the anime. Since I haven't read it myself, I can't verify this, but I have read that Mina's Love Radar thing came from certain aspects of their foreplay (in the manga). ;)

[VidelCoolGirl]

The bed scene was surprising, although in the anime, it was only for like 5 seconds, and Maki seemed to have a lot on her mind at that moment, so I think her being in the bed with Mina was the last thing on her mind.

I need to pick up the manga again. I know the art is something left to be desired, but I should swallow my pride and read the dang thing. Are there any good places to get it?

[Crawlspace]

The bed scene was surprising, although in the anime, it was only for like 5 seconds, and Maki seemed to have a lot on her mind at that moment, so I think her being in the bed with Mina was the last thing on her mind.
I agree with you on her state of mind at the time, but the way the scene was done made it feel like it wasn't a new thing for them. I mean, they were nekkid. If it wasn't somehow routine for them at that moment, I can't see it happening. But that's just me. Like most, I see what I want to in things. ^_^

I need to pick up the manga again. I know the art is something left to be desired, but I should swallow my pride and read the dang thing. Are there any good places to get it?
AN actually has a volume or two of the Japanese manga. Or they did at one point. I haven't been able to find scanlations of it, though. I think the overall ugly turned scanlators off the project. Or I'm just not using Google as effectively as I could be...

[Milky Mixer]

I have to say, I feel a bit vindicated in my liking of Air Master since John mentioned the title in his recent article. Someone posed the question, "Which shows are under appreciated?" or something to that effect... basically, what should be a hit in the US but has gone right under the radar. And in addition to naming a couple of other shows, John also mentioned Air Master. Here's what he had to say:

Within the trio of recent girl fighting anime that consists of Air Master, Tenjho Tenge, and Ikkitousen, Air Master is the least attractive looking, but has the most intense action and the best animation quality. Sadly, the sub-par American DVD release was prematurely canceled, aborting any chance this excellent series had of coming to greater attention. Discriminating consumers avoided the release because of the technical flaws that marred the DVDs. The canceled release prevents consumers from watching the show, even if they're willing to overlook the technical problems with the DVDs. Regrettably Air Master seems destined to not receive the recognition in America it deserves.

So, there ya have it... Licensors, take note!! This show has the potential to be a hit!! Get your hands on it and do it justice!! Thanks for mentioning it, John. Rock on!

[VidelCoolGirl]

I have to say, I feel a bit vindicated in my liking of Air Master since John mentioned the title in his recent article. Someone posed the question, "Which shows are under appreciated?" or something to that effect... basically, what should be a hit in the US but has gone right under the radar. And in addition to naming a couple of other shows, John also mentioned Air Master. Here's what he had to say:

Within the trio of recent girl fighting anime that consists of Air Master, Tenjho Tenge, and Ikkitousen, Air Master is the least attractive looking, but has the most intense action and the best animation quality. Sadly, the sub-par American DVD release was prematurely canceled, aborting any chance this excellent series had of coming to greater attention. Discriminating consumers avoided the release because of the technical flaws that marred the DVDs. The canceled release prevents consumers from watching the show, even if they're willing to overlook the technical problems with the DVDs. Regrettably Air Master seems destined to not receive the recognition in America it deserves.

So, there ya have it... Licensors, take note!! This show has the potential to be a hit!! Get your hands on it and do it justice!! Thanks for mentioning it, John. Rock on!

I agree with John on this one. AirMaster could have been a big one. Even could have made it to Adult Swim (Not saying much) But I do feel as if AirMaster was way underapreciated, and I would very much have liked to see it finished, instead of having to depend on Fansubs.

[WadeW]

I first saw Air Master at Otakon back in... '03 I think... and I loved the hell out of it. It seemed that everyone else in the room loved it too. When I heard it was FINALLY coming out stateside I was estatic... but the rest is history. Why oh why do American distributors have to fail so much...

[Milky Mixer]

I agree with John on this one. AirMaster could have been a big one. Even could have made it to Adult Swim (Not saying much) But I do feel as if AirMaster was way underapreciated, and I would very much have liked to see it finished, instead of having to depend on Fansubs.

Or bootlegs.

And yeah, I agree! If this show had been on Adult Swim, it likely would have been a huge success.

[Crawlspace]

Why oh why do American distributors have to fail so much...
American distributors very rarely fail at any release. They may have a few small issues from time to time, but they don't fail. It was the Japanese this time, completely. If it had been released by an established R1 company, it wouldn't have suffered the issues it did, and it would have been completed.

[Milky Mixer]

So I finally got around to creating a poll on the re-release of AIR MASTER over in the DVD forum. Go check it out and submit a vote if you want. It's my first time making a poll and I had fun coming up with the responses. Hope to see some folks favoring a re-release and who knows, maybe one day it'll happen!