Why Do Anime Fans Hate Other Anime Fans?

[Milky Mixer]

I'm perplexed. I'm not sure if anyone else has been following this thread over in the general anime forum (http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=192478), but I'm a bit upset that anime fans are so intolerant of one another.

Basically, based on the thread mentioned, major complaints among some fans about other fans fall into the (1) obsessed fanboy/girl, (2) know-it-all fanboy/girl, and (3) no-longer-living-in-reality fanboy/girl categories. But what's the big deal? We ALL have different personalities, different reasons for enjoying anime, different shows that we love, and different ways of expressing our fandom... and not everyone's ideas or personalities are going to "click." But is this mix of personality types so completely unique to anime fandom alone? Aren't there always going to be people whose personalities and opinions don't necessarily gel with your own, whether it's in an anime fan community or the place you work or the street you live on or the sports team you root for? I don't get the hostility being expressed.

I've been to a couple of cons, and sure, there are always a few folks who seem a bit "over the top" in one fashion or another... but one of the things I thought that fandom was supposed to do is bring people together, especially the folks who may have lingered on the outskirts of their high school social circles or had a hard time "fitting in" because of their interests and passions in things that aren't viewed as "cool" or "mainstream" - like anime. I remember seeing Jan Scott Frasier's panel at AnimeCentral last month and she was talking about how amazing the fan community is and how much AnimeCentral has grown over the years and how we're all united in some way because of our common love of anime. I'm not saying everyone needs to join hands and sing John Lennon tunes, but I really don't get why some fans seem to care so much about how other fans express their fandom. Isn't it easier to ignore someone than to complain about or make fun of of them? Why let an overzealous fan or two bother you? Is anime fandom really NOT the cool community I thought it was?

[Neo0tak0n]

Don't look at me I'm jaded as hell.

[Gray]

People don't like People. People don't like other People when that other person dosen't agree with them. Just becasue two People have the same intrest's does not mean they will get along. Don't expect any different from Anime fans.

[Yukito Kunisaki]

Think that is bad? Get a 100% Hardcore Yaoi fan in a room with a 100% Hardcore Yuri fan...the results won't be pretty ;)

[djcubez]

The reason that the community has grown is probably because these type of people don't show up to cons or gatherings. For some people it may be playing into their insecurities. That someone can enjoy anime so much it makes them an 'outcast' and they don't want to be that, so they bash them instead of joining them. For other people, it's probably because they can't understand that someone is different from them. I know when you meet someone that has certain political positions or religions you automatically come in with a bias and will not listen to what they have to say.

I also think it's because they don't think that anime should be taken so seriously. For me, anime is only a part of my life just like sports, video games, friends etc... I'm happy for the people that can enjoy anime so much, those so called 'fanboys/girls' but I can't find myself being that interested. Now while I don't bash them, I don't give them any credit either.

When something or someone appears that you're not used to you'll automatically reject it. Denial is the first stage, acceptance comes last. Although I do think this example is a bit extreme, I think it does come into play.

[CrossboneGundam]

Anime fandom is a bizarre little human subculture in a world full of them. Humans are human, no matter what they do to bide their time.

But most people don't tend to like people who are so obsessed with a given work of fiction (or genre of homosexual pornography/erotica) that they've lost touch with reality or define their entire lives by it.

[ZeroRyoko1974]

Think that is bad? Get a 100% Hardcore Yaoi fan in a room with a 100% Hentai and Yuri fan...the results won't be pretty ;)
fixed, as I have experienced this.

[John]

My theory is that anime is a very personal hobby for non-Japanese citizens. Since anime is relatively obscure and difficult to obtain, fans treasure it and immerse themselves in it. There's a natural jealousy and aversion to the feeling that someone else is imposing upon your personal property or your personal hobby. I think that subconsciously many anime fans may feel threatened by others who share the anime hobby because when an anime fan encounters another fan who doesn't react to anime in the same way, there's a feeling that anime itself is less special and personal.

[HSaabedra]

I guess I'll never get along with anime fans. I like watching fanservice, yaoi, yuri, shojo/shonen ai, hentai, etc. I have no favorites. I have no interest in cosplay. Ive been to japan. I dislike fans in my area. i dont care to watch fansubs because they are poorly done. Raws are worse. /end opinion.

[fujyoshi]

I think it either has to do with the clashing taste for example: someone who likes bleach but hates Naruto and some other person is the other way around. That's one thing. Another thing is the type of anime fandom that goes around. Anime has a rather interesting fandom so yeah. And what's the deal with people hating fangirls so much?!

I'm not that bad, I may have almost hit 2D complex but I'm ok. ^_^

[Lankard]

people dont like people that have an attitude which implies that they know all about anime, or about an anime that they feel is the greatest in all the universe

people dont like people that cant carry on a conversation about any other topic besides what what happened every 15 seconds in Inuyasha, or any other anime

people dont like people that are posers/ignorant. Example: "I hate Fushugi Yugi, its such a rip off of Inuyasha. Fushugi Yugi came out before inuyasha? Well it still is a rip off of inuyasha."

people dont like people that are braggers. Ex: "I have 200 manga books, and 50 anime DVD box sets."

Even worse than that above is when this is tacked onto it: "my parents give me the money to buy it all."

people hate people who have lost touch with reality and feel that anime is the greatest thing in life

[Joeshie]

My theory is that anime is a very personal hobby for non-Japanese citizens. Since anime is relatively obscure and difficult to obtain, fans treasure it and immerse themselves in it. There's a natural jealousy and aversion to the feeling that someone else is imposing upon your personal property or your personal hobby. I think that subconsciously many anime fans may feel threatened by others who share the anime hobby because when an anime fan encounters another fan who doesn't react to anime in the same way, there's a feeling that anime itself is less special and personal.

I'm going to have to disagree John. The reason I hate a large majority of anime fans is because so many of them act like total obsessed idiots. It's almost as if they have no life outside of anime. If you are a responsible person with a life outside of anime, than more than likely, I will be able to enjoy your presence. If you are a fat, drooling idiot who constantly downloads the latest anime, than chances are I'm not going to be able to stand your presence.

Oh and anyone who is a self-righteous prick about anime is also a kind of anime fan that I can't stand.

[The Million Dollar Prons]

Several bits:

The "Oh my god, I hope I don't sound like THAT guy," thing. Ya know, you read a post and it sounds so nerdy, lame, annoying\whatever that you say "Oh my god, I hope I don't sound like THAT guy."

The "I don't want to end up like that guy syndrome." I can describe it in two words, "Hellmaster Inu"

And of course, if you happen to be me you suffer from "All of these bastards are noobs, Cowboy Bebop can bite it."

[Haku/白]

I don't hate anyone... I get mad when they call some bishounen (namely Haku) girls, but... otherwise... I just let 'em have it their way...

[HSaabedra]

The day i find an anime fan able to sustain a conversation without smelling funny or dropping random japanese words, i want to talk to them.

[soulreaper]

Oh, of course I ignore them. But just because I ignore them doesn't mean I shouldn't dislike them. Sure, they're entitled to their own opinions, but then, aren't I as well?

[HSaabedra]

yes. The problem lies when you go to a con for the first time and are looked at strangely for not looking like them.

[Leader Desslock]

...major complaints among some fans about other fans fall into the (1) obsessed fanboy/girl, (2) know-it-all fanboy/girl, and (3) no-longer-living-in-reality fanboy/girl categories. ... But is this mix of personality types so completely unique to anime fandom alone?
To be fair, I dislike these types of people no matter WHAT their interests are. A squealy fangirl professing her undying love for her favorite boy band member or TV idol is just as annoying as an anime fangirl.

Well... except that anime characters aren't even real. Maybe that does make anime fangirls more annoying. Sure, rock and TV stars are just a false media image as well, but at least there's flesh and blood SOMEWHERE under the makeup. ^_^

... one of the things I thought that fandom was supposed to do is bring people together...
I wouldn't think that at all. That sounds like the sort of marketing hype they throw out at conventions. If I heard that at a convention or anywhere in the industry, I'd immediately dismiss it as a marketing tactic that used peer pressure to inflate sales.

[Shio]

People don't like People. People don't like other People when that other person dosen't agree with them. Just becasue two People have the same intrest's does not mean they will get along. Don't expect any different from Anime fans.
That sounds like something only an EVA FAN would say... *Leaps over and strangles* :P

Anyway, yeah I'd have to agree with that. People think they can tell a lot about a person by what kind of stories or styles they like, but they really can't, and that can lead one to dislike another based on one's inference of what another's personality is like. Is it just me or did I phrase that really badly, with too many possessives 'n' such?

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

Personally this whole concept of anime fans disliking other fans,is something new to me.Why would you dislike another?Just because you dont see eye to eye on something,or they like a anime that you do not,or visa versa?Personally i think its a bit childish.

[Shio]

It's not as much childish as human nature. People are just defensive of their thoughts. Some people push their opinions into other people's faces, and it's stupid, but whatcha gonna do? Of course, a lot of people are perfectly respectful, too. I prefer to interact with the latter ^^.

[HSaabedra]

^your sig is false. I am proof. :lol: I agree on that last point.

[Hara!]

Because people love to feel better than others.

http://www.brunching.com/images/geekchartbig.gif

[Joeshie]

It's because alot of anime fans are just idiotic slobs. Not much to it.

[DazzleKitty]

I like most fans, it's just the ones that flames each other's fandom that tick me off. Also, Japanophiles I think are a little ignorant for seeing Japan is the greatest place on earth simply because of anime. If they have other 'legit' reasons, then fine. I think it's shallow to worship a place because of the media. I can't really find the right word. I am not sure if shallow is what I am looking for, but that's all I can see fit for right now.

[charles bronson]

From the original thread this is in reference to, I have to say the poster simply voiced his opinion. He is of the same fandom as the people who disagreed with his viewpoints and had said from the first post his opinion might "ruffle some feathers." Not suprisingly, there were a few posters who were offended, while others agreed with him. Nevertheless, The poster had a right to their opinion.

It's not uncommon that people have different ways which they carry about partaking in their hobby. Some keep it low-key while others proudly and publicly let it be known. It's only human nature certain and some people are going to get on your nerves, right? The respectful thing is to ignore said people, I try to be respectful to those who extend me the same courtesy but it's a little hard when you have
the know-it-all, "I know more than you types." The kind who will go out of their way to try and make it appear as if you know nothing simply to boost their insignificant self-esteem up a little simply because he feels you're a poser who's invading on his hobby. In my lifetime I've been approached by said people and have been told I simply cant like anime because I "dont appear like I would." What the hell is that about?

My point being, it's a two-way street. The casual fans can be intolerant of the Otaku, and vice-versa. It's not a perfect fandom but hey, what is? All you can do is try to be respectful.

[HitokiriShadow]

I just get irrited when, while I'm trying to browse the manga section of the bookstore or the anime section of the whereever, I have to listen to people come up and start saying "OMG, its the new volume of Naruto/InuYasha! Sasuke/Sesshie is so kawaii!" and they just babble on and on with each other on whatever series it is.

[Hara!]

I just get irrited when, while I'm trying to browse the manga section of the bookstore or the anime section of the whereever, I have to listen to people come up and start saying "OMG, its the new volume of Naruto/InuYasha! Sasuke/Sesshie is so kawaii!" and they just babble on and on with each other on whatever series it is.

DID ANYBODY SEE THE CHART I POSTED?

no, really. this is us calling kettles black.

[Richi]

I hate those fans who know nothing about how animation works and then state something $tupid like. 1) anime has better animation 2) anime artists care more about the human body than anime 3) manga artists care about their character and their stories (like american comic book writers do not)


stuff like that, a lot of these clueless fans need to learn about how animation works, the basic stuff, before talking out of their, you know what.

[Suiko Eiji]

DID ANYBODY SEE THE CHART I POSTED?

no, really. this is us calling kettles black.

I did, and that chart is made of Truth and Win. I'm saving it and posting it in my cube.

[HSaabedra]

you have a cube?

[RX-78-2]

Since anime is relatively obscure and difficult to obtain...

You've got to be kidding me. I sure had a hard time walking into my local Suncoast, going over to the WALL OF ANIME, and picking out the exact DVD I wanted yesterday. Wow, I'm sure glad I didn't have to scour the Internet looking for a billion different sites that sell anime extremely cheap. And all that anime on Cartoon Network - it's a shame anime doesn't get enough exposure. :rolleyes:

[HSaabedra]

that was the case 10 years ago. I bought Gunsmith Cats on VHS in '97. bought it at suncoast. The only places left in my immediate vicinity are Best Buy and Movie Trading Company. I hate driving around for a suncoast.

[ArcaJ]

You've got to be kidding me. I sure had a hard time walking into my local Suncoast, going over to the WALL OF ANIME, and picking out the exact DVD I wanted yesterday. Wow, I'm sure glad I didn't have to scour the Internet looking for a billion different sites that sell anime extremely cheap. And all that anime on Cartoon Network - it's a shame anime doesn't get enough exposure. :rolleyes:

Compared to the rest of american media, anime IS obscure. Sure anime as a style or look has become more mainstream, but does the average consumer know what anime actually is?

Many could tell you it's animated and from Japan but little else. Can they name a specific genre? Actors? Directors? Studios?

The average american knows who Tom Hanks is, and that he stars in movies, and can even name the directors and studios said movies came from? That's mainstream American entertainment.

Anime IS hard to find. Outside of a few niche retailers (some of which are closing up shop) anime is pretty hard to come by. Most big retailers, Wal-mart, Target, even Best Buy and Circuit City, have mostly middle-of-the-road, established titles or genres witha built-in audience. Anime becomes mainstream when retailers can take a chance on more titles and genres, such as psychological thrillers and romantic dramas. (And not just sticking to the three "B's" Blood, Boobs, and Bots)

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

[Joeshie]

You've got to be kidding me. I sure had a hard time walking into my local Suncoast, going over to the WALL OF ANIME, and picking out the exact DVD I wanted yesterday. Wow, I'm sure glad I didn't have to scour the Internet looking for a billion different sites that sell anime extremely cheap. And all that anime on Cartoon Network - it's a shame anime doesn't get enough exposure. :rolleyes:

It is niche. Anime isn't a common household name and a large percentage of Americans have many misconceptions regarding anime.

Oh and the anime block on Cartoon Network has been falling in popularity recently too.

[HitokiriShadow]

DID ANYBODY SEE THE CHART I POSTED?

no, really. this is us calling kettles black.

Yes, I saw it and it is made of win.

I think you missed the point of my post though. They could have been talking about the newest Brad Pitt movie or how cute the guy on the soccer team is. It was still inane chatter that I didn't want to have to listen to.

Since anime is relatively obscure and difficult to obtain...You've got to be kidding me. I sure had a hard time walking into my local Suncoast, going over to the WALL OF ANIME, and picking out the exact DVD I wanted yesterday. Wow, I'm sure glad I didn't have to scour the Internet looking for a billion different sites that sell anime extremely cheap. And all that anime on Cartoon Network - it's a shame anime doesn't get enough exposure. :rolleyes:

The key word is relatively. Anime is still a niche, and it always will be. Is it more common than 10 years ago? Yes. Is it hard to find? No, not really. But it is still niche and "relatively obscure." A majority of people probably don't really know what anime is.

[Suiko Eiji]

you have a cube?

Yeah, I'm an IT contractor ... it kind of goes with the territory.

[HSaabedra]

Oh. My fault for asking.

[Suiko Eiji]

It's not too bad, I like being a technical cubicle monkey ... just not real fond of my contract assignment at the moment.

[RX-78-2]

It is niche. Anime isn't a common household name and a large percentage of Americans have many misconceptions regarding anime.

Oh and the anime block on Cartoon Network has been falling in popularity recently too.

CN doesn't have an anime block. It's just that most people seem to believe that Toonami and Adult Swim are only for anime (although that'd be pretty cool, seeing as how all the US offers is Superman cartoons). Sure, there've been times when both blocks had all-anime schedules, but they're not meant for just anime. I'd like some proof that ratings are dropping and that it's because of anime.

[Baka Deshi]

It's just that most people seem to believe that Toonami and Adult Swim are only for anime

Err, that was the original point of both of those blocks. Obviously not anymore.

[Milky Mixer]

Well, that's a lot of feedback.

Maybe I'm in the minority, as it seems like quite a few people on this thread as well as the other thread have expressed their dislike of their fellow fans. My original comment/question (I started this topic) was more about the "WHY" of this, because the comments of the fans in the other thread were so negative. I'm surprised to see more of "Yes, I hate fans too because they are know-it-alls or are smelly or whatever." That's not what I was really looking for.

Someone made a remark earlier along the lines of "I find that fan irritating (for whatever reason), and I don't want people to see me as the same as that fan or to be lumped into the same category, so I'm going to call out that fan so as to appear 'cooler' or 'better.'" Like that chart that was posted (which was kinda funny.) And I really feel that's where part of these sentiments come in...

Let's face it, we like anime, we're geeks, so what? So there are some know-it-alls, so what? Sure, when I was at Anime Central there were a few know-it-all, talky, nervy types, and there were a zillion cosplayers squealing and giggling, and I can't say either personality type would be someone I'd hang out with every weekend. But I didn't feel like they were people to make fun of, and I didn't feel "better" than any of them. I actually felt a certain sense of community there, that no matter how spazzed out or geeked out I wanted to be I would just blend right in... I thought it was kind of cool. I'm surprised more fans don't seek to support that same sense of community, instead of tearing one another down on message boards or saying "that person is WAAAY too into anime, they don't have a life, the quality of their life is pathetic, etc." If you're thinking this about other anime fans, I'm sure someone out there is thinking the same thing about you.

[Hara!]

Well, that's a lot of feedback.

Maybe I'm in the minority, as it seems like quite a few people on this thread as well as the other thread have expressed their dislike of their fellow fans. My original comment/question (I started this topic) was more about the "WHY" of this, because the comments of the fans in the other thread were so negative. I'm surprised to see more of "Yes, I hate fans too because they are know-it-alls or are smelly or whatever." That's not what I was really looking for.

Someone made a remark earlier along the lines of "I find that fan irritating (for whatever reason), and I don't want people to see me as the same as that fan or to be lumped into the same category, so I'm going to call out that fan so as to appear 'cooler' or 'better.'" Like that chart that was posted (which was kinda funny.) And I really feel that's where part of these sentiments come in...

Let's face it, we like anime, we're geeks, so what? So there are some know-it-alls, so what? Sure, when I was at Anime Central there were a few know-it-all, talky, nervy types, and there were a zillion cosplayers squealing and giggling, and I can't say either personality type would be someone I'd hang out with every weekend. But I didn't feel like they were people to make fun of, and I didn't feel "better" than any of them. I actually felt a certain sense of community there, that no matter how spazzed out or geeked out I wanted to be I would just blend right in... I thought it was kind of cool. I'm surprised more fans don't seek to support that same sense of community, instead of tearing one another down on message boards or saying "that person is WAAAY too into anime, they don't have a life, the quality of their life is pathetic, etc." If you're thinking this about other anime fans, I'm sure someone out there is thinking the same thing about you.

to save time, you people could watch/read Genshiken. It pretty much covers the whole Otaku thing.

[Leader Desslock]

...I can't say either personality type would be someone I'd hang out with every weekend.... I'm surprised more fans don't seek to support that same sense of community.
I don't think you're wrong to feel that way. I think it just means you're more socially oriented than some people.

...I didn't feel like they were people to make fun of
You're a better person than I am. When I see a squealy fangirl who declares her 'love' for an animated character, I laugh at her. Not near her, nor for her, but AT her. It's a character failing of mine, perhaps - but I am who I am, and I can't help what I find funny. When I hear a recording of a kid in tears because they've bumped Wulin Warriors from it's normal time slot - I laugh aloud. When someone tells me that Cowboy Bebop was six episodes of story and twenty episodes of filler - yes, I really do consider my analysis of the show to be more valid.

I don't look at these people as lesser classes of beings, unworthy of walking among the 'normals', but if someone asks what kind of anime fan I find annoying, those are the ones who are going to be included in my reply.

Okay - they're anime fans. I'm an anime fan. Do I feel that those people and I share some sort of kindred spirit? Do I feel that we're both part of some larger community? Nope, not at all. I like anime, and I watch anime. What they do is none of my concern at all, and the fact that we might coicidently share an interest is just a statistic. Some of these people are six feet tall, just like me - that doesn't mean I feel like I'm magically part of some "six feet tall" community. It just means we have a statistic in common.

As you can tell, I'm what you would likely consider to be less socially oriented than you are. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just how I am.

If you're thinking this about other anime fans, I'm sure someone out there is thinking the same thing about you.
Let them. What do I care? There are people out there that don't think I'm a true anime fan because I don't support fansubbing, I prefer some dubs and I consider anime to be more of an entertainment commodity than an art form. I really don't lose any sleep over their opinions. They're welcome to them.

[Milky Mixer]

I'd hardly call myself "social" or "socially oriented." I go to cons by myself. I don't really mingle with other fans while I'm at cons. But I have a good time, regardless. Like I said, I'm not expecting anyone to join hands and sing or feel like they're all connected because they have anime in common, I understand personality types clash... I just don't get the WHY of making fun of someone else because of how they express their anime fandom when the person doing the making fun of is an anime fan... who takes the time to post on an anime internet forum in the first place...

[HSaabedra]

You obviously fit in better than I do. I went to A-kon this past weekend and felt out of place. It was an odd feeling. If a person asked me my favorite anime theyd look at me funny. One guy accused me of being a poser since I wore an FMA shirt one day, and another guy decided to crack a joke since I went up to my room to sleep instead of forcing myelf to stay awake. I hope next year is better.

[Milky Mixer]

Nah, I don't fit in at all.

Maybe my age has something to do with my position on all of this. I'm 30, so maybe I'm past the clique-ness and the pettyness some people seem to be complaining about. I go to cons to enjoy myself, not to harass or be harassed. Maybe I don't get troubled because I'm older than some of the kids at these events and I mind my own business?

[HSaabedra]

Ever get hit on by jailbait? Not good since I'm 21.

[Milky Mixer]

Nah, I don't get hit on by anyone... :crybaby:

[Suiko Eiji]

Nah, I don't get hit on by anyone... :crybaby:

It's okay, neither do I. :P

[RX-78-2]

to save time, you people could watch/read Genshiken. It pretty much covers the whole Otaku thing.

YES. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Milky Mixer]

I have the first 3 volumes of Genshiken manga. I need to catchup on that series.

[greg]

I'm new here, and I guess I'll be quckly branded as being a snob for this post. I'm usually wary of anime fans and people who try to start up conversations with me at the Fry's Electronics or Best Buy anime sections. Here's why.

I'm very selective of the anime I watch, and I grew out of the phase where I'd watch any anime just because it's anime about ten years ago. I prefer 70's and 80's anime, which is what I grew up with. I hate the "spikey" angular look that became popular in 90's anime, and make very few exceptions to that. Fortunately, character designs have mellowed out a bit since the Dragonball and Tenchi Muyo days. While computer-assisted animation looks cool (only when it blends seamlessly into the drawn anime), I prefer the labor of love of hand-drawn cel anime. So much anime these days are so recycled and it's barely worth me getting excited about. Maybe I'm just an old fogie.

I was considering going to Anime Expo for a day since my wife and I will be in the LA area for the 4th of July weekend, but we decided not to go. My friend has been there every year for the past ten years, and he'll be there this year. But from what he's told me, it's become depressing. More corporate-driven and less fan-driven, which sounds like the SD Comic Con as well (which I've been to several times and I'd rather go to, since it has a lot of anime/manga, but it's much more than just that). He says that most people there seem to consider Evangelion as "classic anime" and you can't find much past that. I guess there wouldn't be much to see for me.

The types of anime fans I can't stand:
1. Self-proclaimed know-it-all "experts" who only show their ignorance every time they say something.

2. Japanophiles who've never been to Japan, yet think it's some sort of blameless, superior utopia. They really only know Japan as it pertains to anime because they've never really spent any time reading any anthropology books or broadened their horizons in any sort of substantial way.They're full of misconceptions and faulty presumptions about Japan. Most often, they only know a handful of Japanese words and they make a point to use them over and over again.

3. (Here's where I start becoming a jerk.) Anime fans who are so obsessed with series I think are truly mediocre, yet they think it's the best show ever. Mainly Dragonball Z and Naruto. They're just annoying.

4. (Here's where many will start to hate me.) Anime fans who watch English-dubbed only. I pretty much can't stand dubbed anime, even though I'm not as intolerant as some friends of mine because I think that the dubs for Miyazaki movies and some rare dubbed shows like Cowboy Bebop are actually okay. I really don't want to be a newbie who starts a flame-war, so I'll just say that in my opinion, any media should be enjoyed in its original language, especially when so much dubbing suffers from poor voice acting and a real loss of the culture it is the product from, and terrible pronunciation of Japanese names and nouns (ie Card Captor Sakyooruh). Like I said, I don't want to start a flame war; I'm just answering the question posed with this topic. Which leads to the last type of anime fan that gets on my nerves.

5. People who claim to be anime fans, yet have no interest in Japan or its culture whatsoever. I cannot imagine this, unless these people limit themselves to sci-fi movies where you'll never see stuff like a kotatsu or a red mailbox. These people will always wonder stuff like, "Why Sailor Moon is standing on the Eiffel Tower? I thought this was supposed to be in Tokyo."

However, even though a lot of anime fans get on my nerves, what I like about the proliferation of anime is that it has sparked so much interest in Japan and its culture. I've met kids in America who are dying to try foods like okonomiyaki someday. Asian culture in general has become rather popular in the past ten years or so. It gives me hope for the future and the internationalization of my home country, so that someday when I have kids, they won't get picked on as much for being Asian and being different as they would have when I was growing up.

Typical anime fans may never pick up on subtleties like when guys scratch the back of their heads when they're embarassed, but it's exposed them to Japan's fascinating culture. And even though my friends and I may roll our eyes when we see Narutards wearing their swirly metal headbands, at least the increase in anime's popularity has led to the availability of anime in America. It's come a long way from the days when there were so very few titles to select from. Sure, I was introduced to awesome shows like Bubblegum Crisis, Gunbuster and Area 88 back in the day, but there's so much out there now that it increases the chances of great shows in Japan being picked up for licensing domestically.

So even though a lot of anime fans are irritating and they may never know what it was like to watch raw anime straight from Japan and follow along with episode guides we'd download from BBSes and print out, or to get them from Animag or Protoculture Addicts (and they irritate the hell out of me because they're a bunch of immature kids), there's still some sort of kindred bond with them I feel, since we are still fellow anime fans afterall.

[Maxximo]

I'm going to have to disagree John. The reason I hate a large majority of anime fans is because so many of them act like total obsessed idiots. It's almost as if they have no life outside of anime. If you are a responsible person with a life outside of anime, than more than likely, I will be able to enjoy your presence. If you are a fat, drooling idiot who constantly downloads the latest anime, than chances are I'm not going to be able to stand your presence.

Oh and anyone who is a self-righteous prick about anime is also a kind of anime fan that I can't stand.
No I have to disagree with some things you said. Most obsessed anime fans are just lonely souls using anime as a way to break the loneiness and hopeless with is there life. I belive some or mental distrub (depression, rage against others, etc,etc)

[Daishikaze]

Greg, you and I are going to get along famously :)

[HSaabedra]

^agreed. We need more fans that can remember the way it was.

[Milky Mixer]

Doesn't all of this "the way it used to be" stuff fall into the "I'm a better anime fan than you are" category, though? Or make someone as much of a fanboy as the next guy? I guess Greg did say he might be labelled a "snob" when he made his post... Just saying, not everyone was around "back in the day" to come to the anime experience the same way Greg did. I personally grew up in the 80s with Robotech, Voltron, Mysterious Cities of Gold, even Battle of the Planets and Speed Racer... and I later dabbled in anime with things like Harmageddon and Fist of the Northstar and Wicked City... but I can't say I got into anime, really "got into" it, until a few years ago when Sailor Moon and Outlaw Star made US airwaves. I would love to go to Japan... but it's not like it's the cheapest or easiest trip to take. So what if I read travel books about Japan, so what if I'm interested in Japanese culture and anime was one of the triggers...? Just 'cause I don't have the cash to go to Japan doesn't mean I can't be interested in these things or fantasize about what it's like there... I just think it's unfair that certain anime fans say they can't stand certain other anime fans, always pointing out the "know it all" types or the ones who "have it all wrong when it comes to Japan or what a good show is," yet this complaint always comes across as somewhat hypocritical to me... since no two fans are going to ever truly have the same experiences, personalities, or interests. I don't like Naruto, but I'm not going to take anything away from the kids who want to wear those headbands or who like that show... I don't cosplay and think the amount of kids dressing up at cons vs. the amount of folks actually attending panels is kinda odd... As a gay man, I don't UNDERSTAND the fourteen-year-old girls who are obsessed with yaoi and gay relationships (which is something they'll never actually experience)... But yknow, I accept that all of this is part of the fandom, the same fandom I am part of, and that all of it is being enjoyed by someone who is as much "entitled" to anime as I am...

I think I'm more inclined to agree with Maxximo... not saying anyone who likes anime has a mental health problem (ok, so maybe I do, but I'm just speaking for myself here), but there are lots of folks who grow up not fitting in, who get picked on, and who happen to be into the "geeky subcultures" of things like anime, comic books, video games and roleplay and so on... Some just have a harder time learning social skills... And their attempts to "correct" someone else about anime might just be their way if trying to establish a connection... That's probably why you have your "know-it-alls," your "anime is my reality/obsession types," etc.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I think the reason WHY anime fans often hate one another is probably more due to mild anti social disorder/ not "fitting in" that they've probably had their whole life. I personally never fit in much when I was in school, and I would rather spend time at home in my room playing games or watching tv then going to parties or hanging out with people in the "in" crowd when I was in school.

So I think it's only natural that someone that has lived their whole life as some what of an outcast would have a barrier put up against socal interaction. Or it's possible that people that look at others as "overly obssesed" are just simply more social and can't understand how someone could be excited by just sitting around watching anime (playing video games, etc.) instead of being out interacting with other people. The only other thing is that they have an insecurity about how "cool" they are and try to increase their level of "coolness" by seeing others on a lower pedistal then themselves.

I think it's very common for younger people (high scool age or younger) to be very competitve in trying to be the "coolest" and thus you see a lot more of this name calling, etc. in younger people then in older generations (not that it never happends with older people because that certainly isn't that case, simply less often).

[Joeshie]

No I have to disagree with some things you said. Most obsessed anime fans are just lonely souls using anime as a way to break the loneiness and hopeless with is there life. I belive some or mental distrub (depression, rage against others, etc,etc)

Being a "lonely soul" doesn't excuse you from acting like a total moron.

[charles bronson]

Doesn't all of this "the way it used to be" stuff fall into the "I'm a better anime fan than you are" category, though?

It could be, but I'm sure the context which it's being spoken in is more out of retrospect than boasting. Then again, I could be wrong.

No offense or disrespect to you Milky Mixer, but it could be also said that your posts can be interpreted as "if there were more people that thought like I did, this would be a perfect fandom." Not that I'm accusing you of having such a viewpoint, but just saying your words could also be seen in such a view.

You are right though regarding that people of the same fandom can't get along. It is depressing, and I hate to say but it's just one of humanity's quirks, much like desiring peace but yet there is still war and conflict in the world. This is nothing new however and it goes on in more than just the anime fandom. I would consider myself part of the punk rock/hardcore scene and I can tell you it's just as bad, if not worse than anime fandom. Most of the people in the scene can be exclusive, cliquish, and they don't exactly embrace their peers with open arms. New and Young people into the music are simply seen as "posers" or "new jacks", while girls can be labeled with hurtful insults of being band *****s, or just being there to see how cool or popular they can be. The worst of everything is the cries of bands preaching of unity are usually half-hearted and fall upon deaf ears. In the end, there's nothing you can really do to change it except have your own beliefs and opinions and try to be respectful to other people (of all the negatives I've mentioned earlier there are at least some genuine, sincere people)

I realize I'm not telling you anything new, however Leader Desslock articulately put it best (and whom I pretty much see eye to eye on 100 percent) you just happen to be a better person and the both of us and a whole lot of other people just dont feel as if we're kindred just because we happen to coincidentally share a hobby.

[Samurai Drifter]

I drop random Japanese words on occasion. But I feel justified in doing so, because I speak Japanese and often talk to other Americans who do too.

I realize I'm not telling you anything new, however Leader Desslock articulately put it best (and whom I pretty much see eye to eye on 100 percent) you just happen to be a better person and the both of us and a whole lot of other people just dont feel as if we're kindred just because we happen to coincidentally share a hobby.
I think the fact that it's a much rarer hobby than most leads to that idea, and I actually consider it a good thing.

[greg]

I would love to go to Japan... but it's not like it's the cheapest or easiest trip to take. So what if I read travel books about Japan, so what if I'm interested in Japanese culture and anime was one of the triggers...? Just 'cause I don't have the cash to go to Japan doesn't mean I can't be interested in these things or fantasize about what it's like there... I just think it's unfair that certain anime fans say they can't stand certain other anime fans, always pointing out the "know it all" types or the ones who "have it all wrong when it comes to Japan or what a good show is," yet this complaint always comes across as somewhat hypocritical to me... .

Wait... I think you may have taken my post personally and as a result, misunderstood me. I was talking about people who look at Japan through rosy glasses and think it's the best place on earth, and basically limit their knowledge of Japan to what they see in anime and think that it's the way it really is. For an example, check out the Ask John article here (http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=542) to see exactly what I mean. The guy's presumptions are wrong on every account.

If you read travel books about Japan and have gained an interest in the country as a result of anime, then you're great in my book. Reread the last two paragraphs of my last post. I grew up with Robotech, Voltron, G-Force/Battle of the Planets, etc before I knew they were Japanese. Around the same time I had to do a report on Japan and its history for a freshman year English project in high school is when I discovered that all the great cartoons I watched as a kid were from Japan. It went from there. I used to look at all the pictures in travel books and I read history and culture books for fun. Then I lived there for two years as an English teacher, married the girl who I initially met as a penpal and whom I had exchanged written letters with every month, and the rest is history.

And travelling to Japan is not as expensive as many people think it is. People think it costs at least a thousand dollars for the plane ticket alone. I've seen tickets from my hometown of Phoenix, AZ to Narita for as low as $300 plus tax. Look around. JTB USA is a good place to start. Just stay at youth hostels for cheap places to stay.

Oh yeah, what was Mysterious Cities of Gold? I missed out on that one.

I drop random Japanese words on occasion. But I feel justified in doing so, because I speak Japanese and often talk to other Americans who do to.
Yeah, me too. After living in Japan and being married to a Japanese girl, I find that there are at least a handful of words that have become embedded into my vocabulary. A lot of my friends and coworkers have learned the word "keitai" and now use it to describe my cell phone because I instinctively say the word all the time. And I quite often blurt out "gomen" or "summasen" a lot.

I'm talking about those who only know a very few words and try to use them all the time, like "baka" or "kawaii" (which often sounds like kowai, having the opposite meaning of the word intended).

This is slightly related, but a friend of mine showed me a clip from Conan O'Brien where they had Triumph the Insult Dog interview Star Wars cosplayers standing in line to see Episode 2. Link here. (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/video/nerds.html)

[Michiyo_Yoshiku]

Other anime fans are annoying Espcally the ones that use random japanese words with their english.

[Samurai Drifter]

(which often sounds like kowai, having the opposite meaning of the word intended).
:lol:

Sometimes, though, that fits better for what they're talking about.

[Milky Mixer]

Mysterious Cities of Gold (at least I think that was the name) aired on Nickelodeon back in the day, and was the story of three children teamed up with a trio of treasure hunters in pursuit of the Seven Cities of Gold, all the while being pursued by Pizarro's Spanish Forces who were also out to find the lost cities. It was a semi-historical series in that it took place back when the Americas were first discovered and the children were from different tribes like the Aztecs, the Incas, etc. (At least, the girl was Incan if I remember correctly.) It was a fun little show, I really enjoyed it, though I wonder if I watched it now if I'd find it cheesy... hmmm.

Anyway, sorry if my posts came across as arrogant or "this is the way everyone needs to be." That wasn't my intention. I don't consider myself "better" than anyone... just trying to be tolerant, maybe. And yes, anime might have been one of the leading factors in my enthusiasm for Japanese culture - but it wasn't the only thing. Heck, even Lost in Translation left me spellbound. I realize it's just a movie, but I'd love to go to Tokyo and have a "Lost In Translation" type of adventure. Just watching Scarlett Johannson and Bill Murray exploring the city, from the neonlit nightlife to the tranquil shrines, was enough to springboard my interest in Japan even further, as well as books like Confucius Lives Next Door and Japanland. And yeah, I know if you look you can find cheaper flights. But I'm not so keen on the youth hostel thing. I mean, I know I might not have the cash to stay in a $500 a night hotel like the Park Hyatt Tokyo (where LIT was filmed), but I figure when I go it's gonna be a vacation, I might as well treat myself to a decent hotel room... Maybe I'm just too decadent?

Anyway, hope my remarks didn't serve the purpose of pushing people further apart rather than pondering overlooking some of the more "interesting" members of our shared fandom.

[Dan]

Hey, I wanted to join in on this conversation a while ago, but somehow my post at that time made some sort of error and I lost about 30 mins of typing, so I'll try to avoid that this time

I hate to come off as a complete jerk (edited: apparently I cant call myself an A$$), but Milky Mixer, Lost in Translation is exactly the type of "Rose glasses" greg was warning about. And Japanland (the documentary, at least, I havent read the book) was complete trash. LiT gives the exact same sort of "magical neon Japan" image that spellbinds too many anime fans, and although it is not a bad movie (certainly a huge step above "New York Stories"), it is nowhere near a good representation of Japanese society. Look into Itami Juzo for a better modern japanese portrayal. Similarly, in "Japanland" (whatever that hell that is supposed to mean) the explorer/narrator was one of the most simple minded people I have ever seen in a documentary, and only immersed herself in textbook examples that do not even apply to 98% of the Japanese population. Consider how many people even leave their hometown more than once. Although I dont have an exact figure, trust me, its not a lot. Now consider her experiences practicing Sumo and what not... and you get my point. If she wanted to explore Japan, she would have learned more riding the train every day.


As for the original question, I feel I fall into a similar category with Lesser Desslock and greg. You've been unfairly proclaiming things like "we're all geeks" when that should be answering your own question. We arent all alike. One factor I have recognised and have a problem with is the recently created notion of social ineptness as a form of creativity. Take Adult Swim's obnoxious black and white commercials for example, people who intentionally use poor grammar online, or an "anime fan" who bought the "Dont make me go Zelda on you" or "I defeated the 8 robot masters" T-shirts. These are all appealing to "anime fans" because they create the illusion of individuality, comeraderie, or a justified existence where previously others may have criticized them.

But know what? I hated socially inept people way back in high school, whether they liked anime or not. I definately didnt bully them or anything, but passively kept my distance. If someone like that does like anime, it can bother me if they sing it to the world along with their ineptness because it creates stereotype for people who are otherwise ignorant or uninterested in anime (not that there is anything wrong with that ignorance or disinterest). Someone might then not know the difference between when I say I like Mushishi, Monster or BECK as opposed to a squealing adolescent who loves One Piece, Trigun or Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. In this respect, I would like America to take a cue from Japan, where "Anime" as we know it in America doesnt exist. You like specific TV programs, sometimes surrounded by an interest in animation in general, you dont like "anime".


Its specifically because anime is not established in America that it is so venerable, and why people antagonize other fans. Compare this to music, if someone likes.... Queen, we pretty much know why they like Queen, and what kind of music they would like. American society as a whole does not know what it means to like... lets use Naruto. And most people also dont draw a line between that and a more serious series. It is truly a shame that anime is being introduced to America on the terms it is, and I think that causes the most friction. That, and simple social ineptness.


If you want to look at me specifically, (and I'm going to pick on someone here, but not maliciously) I can sympathize with whoever called Axl X a "poser" for wearing a FMA shirt (well, maybe not a poser, more like a "tool"). I wear some clothes that are related to my favorite anime, but I have a jacket that I screened the "Mask of Lillith" symbol from Evangelion on myself. I chose that because 1) I like it, and 2)it is recognizable, but just obscure enough to be overlooked. I also made it myself, which says something in any hobby. I understand that many people may not have the means or talent to do something like this, but thats what distinguishes it, I didnt just go out an get it at Suncoast or something. By now you may think I'm a typical Evangelion-loving snob, and granted it does bother me when people who apparently havent thought about the series enough label Evangelion as "too complicated", "insane", "fluff" or whatever, but If I hear that, they obviously dont want to discuss their opinion anyway, so I let it go. If someone actually asks, then I'd get into it with them, which is the first rule to avoid social ineptness - know your audience.

Anyway, I've definately typed to much, but I hope you take this as another perpective and not an attack. I would like you to reevaluate your outlook on the issue by reading this, and If you think I should do so as well, I would welcome any well considered response.

[CrimeofPassion]

But know what? I hated socially inept people way back in high school, whether they liked anime or not. I definitely didnt bully them or anything, but passively kept my distance.


But....why?

That's one of the oddest things I've ever heard.

Besides, what you might think is just total "social ineptness" could be something else. For example, I knew a very quiet girl at my high school that had no friends, never participated in class, never ate in the cafeteria, etc. Was she "socially inept?" Sure, I guess, but she was that way because she had an abusive family.

Do you hate people with autistic spectrum disorders and pervasive developmental disorders? I know a "socially inept" young boy whose lack of social skills are caused by Aspergers. Is that his fault?

[Leader Desslock]

I think Dan provided a context by which the term "social ineptness" can be defined for the purposes of this discussion. I don't believe the term was mean generically.

Still - there's nothing unusual or wrong with not wishing to keep company with the socially inept even in the generic sense, is there? I've worked with autistic kids with a wide range of behaviours. I've seen every reaction to the kids that you can imagine, from lab rat curiosity to abject horror. I can honestly say that most 'normal' kids don't choose to hang out with autistic kids at first. Is it the autistic kids' fault? Nope, it's just that most people opt not to hang with friends who:
- make noises every time they exhale
- have to be monitored every single second to ensure that they don't strip naked and bolt away in public
- have to be checked periodically to ensure that they haven't urinated on themselves
- lacked fine motor skills

...this was just one kid, by the way.

I don't blame that kid for his behaviours. He was autistic, and that's how he perceived and reacted to the world around him. But - I can't very well blame the 'normal' kids if they didn't cozy up to him for long periods of time, can you? I can't even say I find it unusual to hear that someone was 'passively keeping their distance' from the kid. The counselors who worked with this kid frequently sighed when they found out they were running his programs that night. He was a handful. Frequently a handful of poo, incidently. I wish I was making that up. -_-;


ANYWAY - I don't think anyone blames the socially inept for being so. Likewise, when a person states that they prefer to keep their distance from the socially inept, I don't think they necessarily have to give a reason, much less justify the statement or defend the decision. It's enough for them to say, "Yeah, that's not so much my thing" and leave it at that, isn't it?

Let's take a more on-topic f'rinstance:

I don't go to anime conventions. I don't generally hang around with people who identify themselves first and foremost as anime fans. I feel no cameraderie towards people who say "I like anime", any more than I feel a special bond with people who say "I have brown hair" or "I like citrus fruit". Still, I appear to be one of the people at whom this thread is directed. So I wanted to answer the question: Why do I hate other anime fans?

The problem with that question is the phrase "hate other anime fans". I don't hate them; I'm pretty much indifferent to them. So why don't I hang around them or go to conventions? Well, outside of my rabid aversion to marketing crap, I really prefer to avoid certain segments of the anime fanbase that I find annoying.

Is that wrong of me? I don't think so. What I find uncomfortable is contact with annoying people (i.e.: a squealing Sesshy fangirl would suffice), but my desire to avoid those people has nothing to do (positive or negative) with anime at all. I simply avoid people I find annoying, and the concentration of these people at a convention is naturally higher than it is, say, someplace else. Conventions contain, on average, a higher percentage of squealy anime fangirls.

Is it their fault that they're squealy and behave in a manner I find annoying? Is there something morally wrong with how they express their fandom? No, but then again - does it really matter? No. I don't see why their high-pitched proclamations of undying love to a fictional character (a socially inept behaviour) should be any less annoying, just because they're an anime fan. Why should they get a Get Out Of Being Perceived As A Nuisance Free card, just because the animators who draw the object of their infatuation hail from Japan? If someone's acting in what I perceive to be an annoying manner, then does it really matter why? Isn't their behaviour sufficient reason for me to wish to avoid contact with them? Do I really need some additional justification for that?

I don't think I do. And I don't think anyone else does, either. Like Dan, I don't mean this as any sort of attack. By the same token, I don't feel like I should really have to defend it, either.


I think the following quote of Dan's is the best:

I would like America to take a cue from Japan, where "Anime" as we know it in America doesnt exist. You like specific TV programs, sometimes surrounded by an interest in animation in general, you dont like "anime".

If I didn't like my Pratchett quotes so much, I'd probably put that in my sig.

[Gannon]

Wow, spilling our guts aren't we? This has to be one of the more mature threads here (which I've just ruined).

And yeah, LD, Greg and Dan got my vote.

[Milky Mixer]

I hate to come off as a complete jerk (edited: apparently I cant call myself an A$$), but Milky Mixer, Lost in Translation is exactly the type of "Rose glasses" greg was warning about. And Japanland (the documentary, at least, I havent read the book) was complete trash. LiT gives the exact same sort of "magical neon Japan" image that spellbinds too many anime fans, and although it is not a bad movie (certainly a huge step above "New York Stories"), it is nowhere near a good representation of Japanese society. Look into Itami Juzo for a better modern japanese portrayal. Similarly, in "Japanland" (whatever that hell that is supposed to mean) the explorer/narrator was one of the most simple minded people I have ever seen in a documentary, and only immersed herself in textbook examples that do not even apply to 98% of the Japanese population. Consider how many people even leave their hometown more than once. Although I dont have an exact figure, trust me, its not a lot. Now consider her experiences practicing Sumo and what not... and you get my point. If she wanted to explore Japan, she would have learned more riding the train every day.

Ok, without being a jerk back, I really hope you don't think I'm naive enough to think I can take a trip to Japan and relive Sofia Coppola's moody movie. Sure, it would be fun, but I'm not wearing any "rose-colored glasses." I certainly don't expect to find myself making best friends with total strangers, hitting the karaoke box, and then taxi cab through the neon-lit lushness of the city while My Bloody Valentine plays in the background (and I do give Ms. Coppola credit for picking the perfect soundtrack to her film, heh!). Expecting that is like expecting to sleep with Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Cattrall on a trip to New York just because I've seen a few episodes of Sex & the City and, well hey, that's just what everyone in New York does, right? I'm completely able to separate reality from the fiction of a movie. What I said, or meant to say if I didn't say it clearly, was that in addition to anime, Lost in Translation spurred my interest in Japan. I was trying to make it clear that it wasn't just anime that made me curious about the country - that this beautiful movie and other material (like the Japanese Festival I've been attending every year at the Missouri Botanical Gardens) have all mixed together and have made me interested in "getting under the skin" of Japan - culturally, historically, etc. And that curiousity has led me to whatever resources I've been able to find, whether it's a documentary on the Travel Channel or Japanland. And fyi, the book was much better than what I saw of the documentary, with a lot of the book focusing on the narrator's strained relationship with her host family. One of my coworker's tells me all the time that when I do get to take my trip to Japan, I'm likely going to be so disappointed. She might be right. I don't expect it to be anything like I imagine... I also think it'll be a thrill (but then I generally get excited going to new places regardless).


As for the original question, I feel I fall into a similar category with Lesser Desslock and greg. You've been unfairly proclaiming things like "we're all geeks" when that should be answering your own question. We arent all alike. One factor I have recognised and have a problem with is the recently created notion of social ineptness as a form of creativity. Take Adult Swim's obnoxious black and white commercials for example, people who intentionally use poor grammar online, or an "anime fan" who bought the "Dont make me go Zelda on you" or "I defeated the 8 robot masters" T-shirts. These are all appealing to "anime fans" because they create the illusion of individuality, comeraderie, or a justified existence where previously others may have criticized them.

Fair enough. We aren't all the same. And I do hate those obnoxious Adult Swim commercials. In fact, I find a lot of the stuff on Adult Swim to be fairly obnoxious.


But know what? I hated socially inept people way back in high school, whether they liked anime or not. I definately didnt bully them or anything, but passively kept my distance. If someone like that does like anime, it can bother me if they sing it to the world along with their ineptness because it creates stereotype for people who are otherwise ignorant or uninterested in anime (not that there is anything wrong with that ignorance or disinterest). Someone might then not know the difference between when I say I like Mushishi, Monster or BECK as opposed to a squealing adolescent who loves One Piece, Trigun or Full Metal Panic Fumoffu. In this respect, I would like America to take a cue from Japan, where "Anime" as we know it in America doesnt exist. You like specific TV programs, sometimes surrounded by an interest in animation in general, you dont like "anime".


Its specifically because anime is not established in America that it is so venerable, and why people antagonize other fans. Compare this to music, if someone likes.... Queen, we pretty much know why they like Queen, and what kind of music they would like. American society as a whole does not know what it means to like... lets use Naruto. And most people also dont draw a line between that and a more serious series. It is truly a shame that anime is being introduced to America on the terms it is, and I think that causes the most friction. That, and simple social ineptness.


If you want to look at me specifically, (and I'm going to pick on someone here, but not maliciously) I can sympathize with whoever called Axl X a "poser" for wearing a FMA shirt (well, maybe not a poser, more like a "tool"). I wear some clothes that are related to my favorite anime, but I have a jacket that I screened the "Mask of Lillith" symbol from Evangelion on myself. I chose that because 1) I like it, and 2)it is recognizable, but just obscure enough to be overlooked. I also made it myself, which says something in any hobby. I understand that many people may not have the means or talent to do something like this, but thats what distinguishes it, I didnt just go out an get it at Suncoast or something. By now you may think I'm a typical Evangelion-loving snob, and granted it does bother me when people who apparently havent thought about the series enough label Evangelion as "too complicated", "insane", "fluff" or whatever, but If I hear that, they obviously dont want to discuss their opinion anyway, so I let it go. If someone actually asks, then I'd get into it with them, which is the first rule to avoid social ineptness - know your audience.

Anyway, I've definately typed to much, but I hope you take this as another perpective and not an attack. I would like you to reevaluate your outlook on the issue by reading this, and If you think I should do so as well, I would welcome any well considered response.

Look, I'm certainly not trying to attack back and really the point of me starting this entire thread was out of irritation that the thread I'd referenced back in the first post had taken the tune of "Yeah, I like anime but all of the fans suck or are geeks or smell or are know-it-alls." It just seemed so ironic and ricidulous to me that here we are, a bunch of fans of anime all taking our own personal time (which may be more valuable to some than others) to post about and discuss what seems to be a hobby that we share - and god bless the internet for giving people a chance to connect with fans all over the world - and all we can do is criticize people or stereotype them because we see them as "less cool" or "socially inept" or "smelly?" It just seemed so shallow and juvenile and even unfair. Maybe I am judging. Maybe I am a hypocrite. And I admit, I don't want to get stuck in some convention line next to a know-it-all who hasn't had a bath in two days, or a yaoi fangirl who is going to try to tell ME (the gay guy) about gay relationships based on what she's read in a manga... But the tone, to me anyway, of that thread seemed to be "I like anime but I'm not a geek like everyone else who likes anime." Please...

[Milky Mixer]

ANYWAY - I don't think anyone blames the socially inept for being so. Likewise, when a person states that they prefer to keep their distance from the socially inept, I don't think they necessarily have to give a reason, much less justify the statement or defend the decision. It's enough for them to say, "Yeah, that's not so much my thing" and leave it at that, isn't it?

Let's take a more on-topic f'rinstance:

I don't go to anime conventions. I don't generally hang around with people who identify themselves first and foremost as anime fans. I feel no cameraderie towards people who say "I like anime", any more than I feel a special bond with people who say "I have brown hair" or "I like citrus fruit". Still, I appear to be one of the people at whom this thread is directed. So I wanted to answer the question: Why do I hate other anime fans?

The problem with that question is the phrase "hate other anime fans". I don't hate them; I'm pretty much indifferent to them. So why don't I hang around them or go to conventions? Well, outside of my rabid aversion to marketing crap, I really prefer to avoid certain segments of the anime fanbase that I find annoying.

Is that wrong of me? I don't think so. What I find uncomfortable is contact with annoying people (i.e.: a squealing Sesshy fangirl would suffice), but my desire to avoid those people has nothing to do (positive or negative) with anime at all. I simply avoid people I find annoying, and the concentration of these people at a convention is naturally higher than it is, say, someplace else. Conventions contain, on average, a higher percentage of squealy anime fangirls.

Is it their fault that they're squealy and behave in a manner I find annoying? Is there something morally wrong with how they express their fandom? No, but then again - does it really matter? No. I don't see why their high-pitched proclamations of undying love to a fictional character (a socially inept behaviour) should be any less annoying, just because they're an anime fan. Why should they get a Get Out Of Being Perceived As A Nuisance Free card, just because the animators who draw the object of their infatuation hail from Japan? If someone's acting in what I perceive to be an annoying manner, then does it really matter why? Isn't their behaviour sufficient reason for me to wish to avoid contact with them? Do I really need some additional justification for that?

I don't think I do. And I don't think anyone else does, either. Like Dan, I don't mean this as any sort of attack. By the same token, I don't feel like I should really have to defend it, either.


I think the following quote of Dan's is the best:

I would like America to take a cue from Japan, where "Anime" as we know it in America doesnt exist. You like specific TV programs, sometimes surrounded by an interest in animation in general, you dont like "anime".

If I didn't like my Pratchett quotes so much, I'd probably put that in my sig.

Yeah, I don't think the autism stuff has anything to do with this thread...

And perhaps even in my limited congoing experiences, wading through the horde of cosplayers and yaoi paddlers, I've yet to meet someone who identifies himself as "first and foremost an anime fan." Sure there have been a few overzealous folks and I admit I don't stop and mingle that much, but I tend to notice most people are talking about anything BUT anime. I think people are more complicated than they get credit for... maybe part of the problem is "first impressions?" I don't know. Yes, it's perfectly fine to avoid people who annoy you (the general "you," obviously Leader Desslock you don't need my permission, heh!) and I think we all do that. Again, I merely wanted to start this discussion because I was so disgusted by the original thread... and maybe the word HATE was wrong... maybe the thread should be WHY ARE ANIME FANS SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER ANIME FANS... Maybe I was naive to think more people felt the way I did about enjoying the fans and the fandom. Maybe I'm just not jaded yet...

[greg]

Lost in Translation is exactly the type of "Rose glasses" greg was warning about.
Actually, Lost In Translation is commendable not only for its My Bloody Valentine soundtrack, but for its portrayal of Japan for what it is. It's not like Michael Douglas's trip to Nagoya in "Black Rain" to stop some mobsters, nor is it like many other movies where they have to have one clueless guy and another guy who is the expert and explains everything to the clueless guy (like Michael Chrichton's Rising Sun or whatever it's called). It just shows Tokyo as anybody may experience it. Sure, you may never be chased through pachinko parlors by some weird guy with a pellet gun (or whatever that was), but some weird crap may happen while bar hopping. I'm rather anti-social myself and not much of a drinker, so I didn't go to bars very often.

My wife, being Japanese, didn't like the movie because it seemed to her that it didn't portray Japan as very pleasant or friendly. It focuses on culture shock. The characters can't understand what anyone is saying, they experience a lot of "what the heck?" moments, eat food they don't particularly like, joke about escaping the country... and I think they even said that they don't intend on ever coming back. I'd like them to say that after living there a couple of years, but oh well. To her, it seemed to show Japan as a country that isn't very enjoyable, but she can't see it through my eyes, and I think that the movie just presents Japan as mysterious intriguing, and quite often beautiful (the dazzling displays of Shinjuku, the trip to Kyoto, etc). It shows some flaws of Japan does not show it as some perfect society like some otaku seem to think it is (again, read the "Ask John" link I provided before).

Anyhow, I admit that some may think that I am socially inept because I'm easily frustrated with people and society. My motto is that people suck and the less interaction with them, the better. Not just anime fans. Most of my friends are OCD in some way, which I find more interesting than most others. I find their behavior bizarre, but I'm sure some people think I'm bizarre. Most people don't understand how amused I am with Engrish and the bizarre shirts I buy in Japan. And I often wear anime and video game shirts on weekends and such. I have a lot of anime posters up in my house, dispay shelves full of figures and models, etc. So yeah, I'm a fanboy too.

But I don't relate anime to real life, nor do I talk only about anime like some (I had a friend who constantly talks about anime all the time and was pretty irritating). I think I have a wide variety of interests. But just as I can't relate to people about stuff like sports, I just cannot relate to this new generation of anime fans who get so excited about Naruto or One Piece (good call on that one Dan... I overlooked that wretched show on my list of most annoying anime). And I'm pretty cruel to people who watch dubbed anime. This guy at work had an Appleseed wallpaper on his computer screen, so we started talking. He was telling me that he only watched anime dubbed-only, so I teased him and said, "Oh, so you're an illiterate, uncultured buffoon." He was telling me that the subtitles get in the way of enjoying the visuals, I suggested that he watch anime a second time through without the subtitles, but he didn't like that idea much. In reality, I don't care if they watch the shows dubbed, as long as I'm not with them when they do it. I just like giving them a hard time.

While a lot of anime fans are annoying, what I find more annoying are dumb people's reactions to me when the find out that I lived in Japan and I'm married to a Japanese girl. People are not very internationally-minded. But, I that's another discussion and I don't want to derail.

[Daishikaze]

Greg, I agree with you about so much. If I didn't know better I'd swear we met before, but its not possible

[Hara!]

too much reading...

[RX-78-2]

Wait, is this an anime forum, or a college essay directory? :P

[Samurai Drifter]

Many people on here are always saying things like "THERE'S ALMOST NO ANIME IN TOKYO, YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL STUPID FOR THINKING OF IT AS A MECCA."

But if you know where to look, Tokyo has anime practically oozing from it, much more so than any American city. And let's not even talk about manga; you can buy magazines hundreds of pages thick at any newstand. Akihabara IS an otaku paradise. There is nowhere else like it outside Japan. I've even heard "Cruel Angel Thesis" when walking around Tokyo, and there are a lot of anime themed Pachinko games coming out recently. It's a country where manga at least, and anime to a large extent, is part of the mainstream popular culture. It's not perfect of course. It's expensive as hell to live in, it's not always foreigner-friendly, and the language is much different from English, but it's certainly not as anime/manga/fun-less as some of you make it sound. It was probably the most fun trip I've ever taken.

All provided, of course, you understand Japanese, but that was obvious.

[Milky Mixer]

Actually, Lost In Translation is commendable not only for its My Bloody Valentine soundtrack, but for its portrayal of Japan for what it is. It's not like Michael Douglas's trip to Nagoya in "Black Rain" to stop some mobsters, nor is it like many other movies where they have to have one clueless guy and another guy who is the expert and explains everything to the clueless guy (like Michael Chrichton's Rising Sun or whatever it's called). It just shows Tokyo as anybody may experience it. Sure, you may never be chased through pachinko parlors by some weird guy with a pellet gun (or whatever that was), but some weird crap may happen while bar hopping. I'm rather anti-social myself and not much of a drinker, so I didn't go to bars very often.

Well hurrah, Greg also liked Lost in Translation! And yes, I agree, though I haven't actually experienced Tokyo myself, the movie does seem to show Tokyo as "anybody may experience it" or, as you also said, it's not like Black Rain which is an action film dealing with the yakuza (which to me seems more like something you'd see in an anime than LiT was).


My wife, being Japanese, didn't like the movie because it seemed to her that it didn't portray Japan as very pleasant or friendly. It focuses on culture shock. The characters can't understand what anyone is saying, they experience a lot of "what the heck?" moments, eat food they don't particularly like, joke about escaping the country... and I think they even said that they don't intend on ever coming back. I'd like them to say that after living there a couple of years, but oh well. To her, it seemed to show Japan as a country that isn't very enjoyable, but she can't see it through my eyes, and I think that the movie just presents Japan as mysterious intriguing, and quite often beautiful (the dazzling displays of Shinjuku, the trip to Kyoto, etc). It shows some flaws of Japan does not show it as some perfect society like some otaku seem to think it is (again, read the "Ask John" link I provided before).

Well, you can tell your wife that I never picked up on the country being unfriendly (by way of the film anyway). Yes, it does focus on the culture shock elements... but that's some of the stuff I find intriguing... the differences and similarities in our two cultures. And yes, Scarlett Johannson's character does make a remark about never coming back to Japan "because it would never be this much fun." Basically I think it's as much reference to the culture shock as it is to her friendship with Bill Murray, sort of a "it wouldn't be the same without you" remark. Of course, later when he is saying he doesn't want to leave she jokes, "Stay here with me and we'll start a jazz band" like the cheesy band in the hotel bar. Ok, so I've seen the movie a few times. :P


Anyhow, I admit that some may think that I am socially inept because I'm easily frustrated with people and society. My motto is that people suck and the less interaction with them, the better. Not just anime fans. Most of my friends are OCD in some way, which I find more interesting than most others. I find their behavior bizarre, but I'm sure some people think I'm bizarre. Most people don't understand how amused I am with Engrish and the bizarre shirts I buy in Japan. And I often wear anime and video game shirts on weekends and such. I have a lot of anime posters up in my house, dispay shelves full of figures and models, etc. So yeah, I'm a fanboy too.

But I don't relate anime to real life, nor do I talk only about anime like some (I had a friend who constantly talks about anime all the time and was pretty irritating). I think I have a wide variety of interests. But just as I can't relate to people about stuff like sports, I just cannot relate to this new generation of anime fans who get so excited about Naruto or One Piece (good call on that one Dan... I overlooked that wretched show on my list of most annoying anime). And I'm pretty cruel to people who watch dubbed anime. This guy at work had an Appleseed wallpaper on his computer screen, so we started talking. He was telling me that he only watched anime dubbed-only, so I teased him and said, "Oh, so you're an illiterate, uncultured buffoon." He was telling me that the subtitles get in the way of enjoying the visuals, I suggested that he watch anime a second time through without the subtitles, but he didn't like that idea much. In reality, I don't care if they watch the shows dubbed, as long as I'm not with them when they do it. I just like giving them a hard time.

While a lot of anime fans are annoying, what I find more annoying are dumb people's reactions to me when the find out that I lived in Japan and I'm married to a Japanese girl. People are not very internationally-minded. But, I that's another discussion and I don't want to derail.

I watch both dubbed and subbed, pretty much on a show-by-show basis... different things factor in: am I already familiar with the American VA's because I saw the show dubbed on tv first, do the American VA's seem to "fit" the show and/or characters, how bad is the acting (not speaking Japanese, I can't really tell if it's bad in Japanese but certainly there are some US dubs that have made me wince and reach for the audio button on the remote), are the US actors the same recycled voices that have been in the last 3 shows I've just watched, sub only dvds (which are fine with me), am I too tired to read the subtitles tonight, etc...?

I actually find Greg's comments interesting because, in talking about his posters and figures, he's an admitted fanboy... he just doesn't like mixing with the other fanboys (and girls). I guess that's what others are saying, too. But there does seem to be a fine line between not mixing and bashing others.

[Dan]

Many people on here are always saying things like "THERE'S ALMOST NO ANIME IN TOKYO, YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL STUPID FOR THINKING OF IT AS A MECCA."

But if you know where to look, Tokyo has anime practically oozing from it,...

Ok, just a quick note to this first. There is "anime" everywhere in Tokyo, anyone who says otherwise was walking around with their eyes closed. However, Akihabara is relatively pathetic. Its really more of a name now than I have heard it used to be, a friend of mine who lives in Japan has told me that with the advent of conputer business technology, the necessity of the stores in Akihabara took a deep plunge. Its literally about 3 square blocks of various stores (dont forget those that cater to ovens, porn and what not), that many dont even have the variety of anime DVDs that one finds in an america BEST BUY, its that weak. Maybe just because its hyped up so much it was such a let down, I was imagining wall-to-wall of every anime and video game that ever existed, but sadly, that is not the case.


Ok, without being a jerk back, I really hope you don't think I'm naive enough to think I can take a trip to Japan and relive Sofia Coppola's moody movie....

Dont worry, I didnt mean to imply anything like that. Although I don't agree with all of your stances, you've proven to me to be an intelligent individual that I would trust to look past the fiction. I just meant to warn that many of the works that reach america are poorly presented for a true understanding, etc.

Fair enough. We aren't all the same. And I do hate those obnoxious Adult Swim commercials. In fact, I find a lot of the stuff on Adult Swim to be fairly obnoxious.

Yea, I think adult swim is going to have to make some major changes soon to keep its ratings up, its same old tricks might be wearing off.


Yeah, I don't think the autism stuff has anything to do with this thread...
And perhaps even in my limited congoing experiences, wading through the horde of cosplayers and yaoi paddlers, I've yet to meet someone who identifies himself as "first and foremost an anime fan." Sure there have been a few overzealous folks and I admit I don't stop and mingle that much, but I tend to notice most people are talking about anything BUT anime. I think people are more complicated than they get credit for... maybe part of the problem is "first impressions?" I don't know. Yes, it's perfectly fine to avoid people who annoy you (the general "you," obviously Leader Desslock you don't need my permission, heh!) and I think we all do that. Again, I merely wanted to start this discussion because I was so disgusted by the original thread... and maybe the word HATE was wrong... maybe the thread should be WHY ARE ANIME FANS SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER ANIME FANS... Maybe I was naive to think more people felt the way I did about enjoying the fans and the fandom. Maybe I'm just not jaded yet...

I actually think Leader Desslock's example perfectly flowed with my idea, and continuing with that, your rephrased question "WHY ARE ANIME FANS SO INTOLERANT OF OTHER ANIME FANS" shouldnt be really directed to us. We've explained what we dislike about "anime fans", but it seems that Leader Desslock, greg, and myself are actually very tolerant people (especially Leader Desslock if he has been able to work with autistic children) (and despite who judgemental I know that I am, but I still will often tolerate what I judge).

It would seem to result then that the same people who "hate" or are "intolerant" of anime fans are about the same people who they hate. There is only a fine line between a squealing fangirl and the person who hates her because he/she has put "anime" up on a pedistal. Ideally, that person should simply bothered by this loud person. But like I said before, its exactly because anime is so young and obscure in america's collective mind that most people dont know what to think about it. So therefore, when people like a squealing fangirl or (taking your examples) a girl who feels she understands male homosexuality (which I would believe is inherently impossible), or a consistantly unshowered person are tied to an impression about anime in general, the average america will begin to think that anime produces uncontrollable, ignorant, inept, dirty people. I can sympathize with people who are bothered by this and hope to prevent it by complaining, but there is really no end in sight, and may never be.

I believe that is why specifically "Anime fans hate/are intolerant of anime fans".

[greg]

I'd say that Tokyo has three major anime meccas: Akihabara (as stated already), Ikebukuro, and Nakano.

For Ikebukuro, the excitement is on the east exit of the station, around the Sunshine Building. Several big game centers (The Sega Gigo has a store devoted to Sakura Taisen), K-books, Animate, another shop between the two I can't remember the name of, and a Manga no Mori to name the major attractions (although the Gamers shop is sorely missed).

For Nakano, head north of the station to the Broadway Building and be prepared to spend the whole day there. The mall is filled with all sorts of independently owned stores, plus several Mandarake locations.

Shibuya counts as well to an extent... you just need to know where to look. the big Mandarake store is the main place to go.

Anyhow, I'm derailing. People are complaining about my long posts.

[Samurai Drifter]

Ok, just a quick note to this first. There is "anime" everywhere in Tokyo, anyone who says otherwise was walking around with their eyes closed. However, Akihabara is relatively pathetic. Its really more of a name now than I have heard it used to be, a friend of mine who lives in Japan has told me that with the advent of conputer business technology, the necessity of the stores in Akihabara took a deep plunge. Its literally about 3 square blocks of various stores (dont forget those that cater to ovens, porn and what not), that many dont even have the variety of anime DVDs that one finds in an america BEST BUY, its that weak. Maybe just because its hyped up so much it was such a let down, I was imagining wall-to-wall of every anime and video game that ever existed, but sadly, that is not the case.
I've been there. It was the greatest concentration of anime, manga, and games I've ever seen. Tora no Ana unarguably has a bigger selection of manga than anywhere in America.

[Krueger]

I hate you all. Equally.

[Dan]

I've been there. It was the greatest concentration of anime, manga, and games I've ever seen. Tora no Ana unarguably has a bigger selection of manga than anywhere in America.

The Ikebukuro Tora no Ana is better in my opinion. Also, I wasnt even talking about manga, but I guess that means you agree with me about anime and video games.

[CyberNinja5]

Its this simple. Its the same reason that most Xbox Fans hate PS2 fans. Its because they are stupid fanboys.

[Milky Mixer]

Its this simple. Its the same reason that most Xbox Fans hate PS2 fans. Its because they are stupid fanboys.

Yeah, THAT clears things up. :rolleyes:

[Milky Mixer]

It would seem to result then that the same people who "hate" or are "intolerant" of anime fans are about the same people who they hate. There is only a fine line between a squealing fangirl and the person who hates her because he/she has put "anime" up on a pedistal. Ideally, that person should simply bothered by this loud person. But like I said before, its exactly because anime is so young and obscure in america's collective mind that most people dont know what to think about it. So therefore, when people like a squealing fangirl or (taking your examples) a girl who feels she understands male homosexuality (which I would believe is inherently impossible), or a consistantly unshowered person are tied to an impression about anime in general, the average america will begin to think that anime produces uncontrollable, ignorant, inept, dirty people. I can sympathize with people who are bothered by this and hope to prevent it by complaining, but there is really no end in sight, and may never be.

I believe that is why specifically "Anime fans hate/are intolerant of anime fans".

But what should it matter what the "average american" thinks anime is or what their perception of anime fans are? If you (the general "you" again) enjoy anime, why do you care what other people think about you or your hobby? Why be afraid of being lumped in with the smellies and the squealies? Obviously someone with little to no interest in anime is going to draw their own opinions and conclusions based on what minor contact or perceptions they have. I mean, my dad still thinks "anime" is the name of a girl... He just doesn't "get it," and that's fine. And this is my parent. So what a stranger thinks really shouldn't matter. The people who know you as a person in their real life, your co-workers or friends or acquaintances, will draw their own conclusions on whether or not you squeal or smell based on you as a person they know, not on whether or not you watch Inuyasha. Just saying, I don't get the reasoning that some anime fans dislike other anime fans because they're afraid they'll perpetuate a stereotype and give all anime fans a bad name. But then again, I feel some of the more flamboyant homosexuals, the parade marchers and drag queens and leatherboys, sometimes perpetuate a stereotype that gives all gay men a bad name and leads to misunderstandings. And I suppose there could be a certain amount of blacks who perpetuate a stereotype that gives all black people a bad name... and so on... But I'm not going to say "I dislike gays." I accept that gay people have as much variety as any other part of society and that those who may not be similar to me in personality or how they present themselves are free to do as they wish, and who knows, maybe their parade marching and in-your-faceness and flashiness has made it easier for me to simply be an out gay person. Maybe the more vocal anime fans have helped to continue the growth of the industry... I mean, SOMEONE's attending cons and posting on message boards and getting the message out there to the distributors and the licensors and the translators and whatever... and that's just in the US. But then again (how many times am I going to flip back and forth here), racial prejudice or denying someone equal rights based on their sexual preference are hardly in the same ballpark as how non-anime fans perceive anime... and how we perceive each other.

[Samurai Drifter]

The Ikebukuro Tora no Ana is better in my opinion. Also, I wasnt even talking about manga, but I guess that means you agree with me about anime and video games.
Nah, I got some video games there I'll probably never get in the US- Kanon and Air. I also found Fist of the North Star DVDs (a series which has been out of print in the US for quite some time) along with the Cowboy Bebop Soundtrack and FFVII:AC on DVD before it came out here. Not to mention the figures/artbooks that again you can't buy anywhere in America outside the internet.

No, I was pretty impressed with Akihabara.

[Hara!]

Ok, just a quick note to this first. There is "anime" everywhere in Tokyo, anyone who says otherwise was walking around with their eyes closed. However, Akihabara is relatively pathetic. Its really more of a name now than I have heard it used to be, a friend of mine who lives in Japan has told me that with the advent of conputer business technology, the necessity of the stores in Akihabara took a deep plunge. Its literally about 3 square blocks of various stores (dont forget those that cater to ovens, porn and what not), that many dont even have the variety of anime DVDs that one finds in an america BEST BUY, its that weak. Maybe just because its hyped up so much it was such a let down, I was imagining wall-to-wall of every anime and video game that ever existed, but sadly, that is not the case.


I officially have no reason to visit japan.

[Samurai Drifter]

Read what I said. The comment that it doesn't have the variety of an American Best Buy is ridiculous.

Not to mention the cosplay girls handing out ads on the street.

[Dan]

Read what I said. The comment that it doesn't have the variety of an American Best Buy is ridiculous.

Not to mention the cosplay girls handing out ads on the street.


I guess it's all up to opinion, but you must have been there on a special day. For me, and a lot of people I have spoken to found it disappointing. Although I stand by my first assesment, also consider that you cant really find anything there you cant get online now anyway. That kind of applies to anywhere, but Ikebukuro and the Nakano Broadway have a little more to offer in terms of rarity.

Just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan, or when was the last time you were in Akihabara?

[greg]

I was in Akihabara just two months ago. It really requires at least two full days to see everything there. If you aren't into video games, then I can see why you were disappointed. And if you don't care much for gachapon, figures, model kits and garage kits, or if you don't have a laserdisc player and don't care about finding some great LDs, and you're only focused on anime DVDs, then yeah, Akihabara doesn't have much that you can't find any other place. But for me, it's incredible.

Seriously, when I first went to Akihabara in 98, I thought it was great, but I didn't see hardly anything compared to subsequent trips there. If you're an Akiba newbie, no offense, then you may not really know where to look. Especially on the back streets. You'll likely miss K-Books because it's hard to find the right stairs to get there, and you may not know about the retro video game shop nextdoor to G-Front, the arcade PCB dealer store. And the Figure Hobby Kan shop itself demands at least an hour or two. I was there for about two hours and I still didn't get to see the fifth and final floor because I had to meet my wife at Snoopy Town in Harajuku to have dinner. But dang, seeing rows and rows of plastic Gundam kits, prepainted figures of Lum, Fujiko and Maetel, a cross-section model of the Yamato showing its inside decks, model diaramas of Valkyries vs. Zentraedi Battlepods.... It's difficult not to act like local anime fan/nitwits spazzing out over a piece of paper from Japan, acting like it's the Ten Commandments.

I take that back... it will probably take at least 2 1/2 days to fully cover Akihabara.... and that's with skipping the stupid hentai crap and all the cool electronics gadgets like MD players and such. But you'd have to visit Club Sega and the Hey game center next door, at least for a bit.

[Samurai Drifter]

Just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan, or when was the last time you were in Akihabara?
No, I don't live there (yet). I was in Akihabara in March.

You'll likely miss K-Books because it's hard to find the right stairs to get there.
Ha ha, that's where I got my friend a reprint of Ranma 1/2 that probably won't come out in the U.S.

[Hara!]

I was in Akihabara just two months ago. It really requires at least two full days to see everything there. If you aren't into video games, then I can see why you were disappointed. And if you don't care much for gachapon, figures, model kits and garage kits, or if you don't have a laserdisc player and don't care about finding some great LDs, and you're only focused on anime DVDs, then yeah, Akihabara doesn't have much that you can't find any other place. But for me, it's incredible.

Seriously, when I first went to Akihabara in 98, I thought it was great, but I didn't see hardly anything compared to subsequent trips there. If you're an Akiba newbie, no offense, then you may not really know where to look. Especially on the back streets. You'll likely miss K-Books because it's hard to find the right stairs to get there, and you may not know about the retro video game shop nextdoor to G-Front, the arcade PCB dealer store. And the Figure Hobby Kan shop itself demands at least an hour or two. I was there for about two hours and I still didn't get to see the fifth and final floor because I had to meet my wife at Snoopy Town in Harajuku to have dinner. But dang, seeing rows and rows of plastic Gundam kits, prepainted figures of Lum, Fujiko and Maetel, a cross-section model of the Yamato showing its inside decks, model diaramas of Valkyries vs. Zentraedi Battlepods.... It's difficult not to act like local anime fan/nitwits spazzing out over a piece of paper from Japan, acting like it's the Ten Commandments.

I take that back... it will probably take at least 2 1/2 days to fully cover Akihabara.... and that's with skipping the stupid hentai crap and all the cool electronics gadgets like MD players and such. But you'd have to visit Club Sega and the Hey game center next door, at least for a bit.

I officially have reason to visit japan again.

[Dan]

Thanks greg, I admit I am not familiar with Akihabara, but I have made a point to explore it several times. I havent been to some of the stores you mentioned, which is probably why it was less than astounding. I actually am very interested in video games, which was one of the reasons I went there (still looking for Wonder Project J2), and a big reason why I was dissappointed. Everywhere I went only catered to brand new games. But I'll look into some of the places you mentioned.

Although to stick with my point, having been there on a Saturday at 10 pm to find a ghost town was a little surprising, but that also kind of applies to most of Tokyo.

[Gannon]

I'm too damn fine to be seen with those nerds.

[Ephyon-x]

The way i see it, Anime has never been as large as it is now outside of Japan,
If you go a few years back in time, and someone asked what you enjoyed watching, and you answered "I like Anime".

Then you would more or less get this answer "Anime? Whats that?".
The community was smaller, it was harder to obtain then just go to any site and download as it is now.
I think that the growth of the anime community and fans has been to fast for most old anime fans, since atleast 80% of all Anime fans today, has become a Anime fan in the past 1-4 years (estimated figures, not based on any statistics, but on forum reading and constant webpage reading since the first time i got my hands on internet).
To us older anime fans, who has been around for a while (i havent been around for that long compared to others, i started at the age of 8 to understand what Anime was, and at the same time i started watching whatever i got my hands on, so iwe been a anime fan since 1993).

So soon 13 years, and during 9 of these, i got used to people saying "What is that", and then reply with "Ahh, Cartoons, Like Transformers." and similiar.
(I watch disney cartoons and other cartoons aswell, not just Anime =P)

Then all of a sudden, Boom, people knew what it was, it's everywhere.
Which is a good thing!, This makes anime easier to reach, and also builds the fanbase that exists today.

But, i think that the sudden boom somewhat makes it hard for some of us.
I remember the days when i used to mix japanese words into normal sentances, both speach and writing, Like saying "Kawaii", "Arigatô", "Baka" and whatnot.
Today i dont do that, but whenever i see someone do it today i get a small irritation, which calms down quickly when i remember that i also did that alot in the past.
Or when i see someone who has only watched a few anime's, usually Mainstream anime (i like mainstream anime ^^, its mainstream because of one reason, the majority likes it.)

To the point with this whole reply,
I think the aggression is just because of what i have written, Older fans cant see new fans as fans, and new fans cant understand old fans.
There are several types of fans, some so obsessed that it interferes with their real life, some fans that just enjoys watching it to new limits.
And some fans that gets a orgasm everytime a new episode is out of their favorite anime (This would be where i fit in, And by the way Joeshie "If you are a fat, drooling idiot who constantly downloads the latest anime", im fat and i love anime, and i check every second anime that i get my hands on, go hang yourself so i wont have to see those stupid comments ever again)

Whatever type of anime fan you all are, i dont care.
Whatever you do in your life is none of my business.
What is important, We share a common love for anime, Dont be greedy, correct instead of flaming. And dont judge a person you dont know!

My 2 cents and my toughts about it.

[sfried]

What is important, We share a common love for anime, Dont be greedy, correct instead of flaming. And dont judge a person you dont know!
Well said. I, too may think this is also just a generation gap issue.

[Leader Desslock]

...Older fans cant see new fans as fans...
I'm an older fan, and I see younger kids as being far more "fannish" than I am. FYI - I think your stereotype is as inaccurate as the one for which you criticized Joeshie. Not that I care, but it's the whole Glass Houses thing.

...What is important, We share a common love for anime...
Why is this important? Why is it even significant?

[Magami No ER]

^That's generally the binding feeling that people with similar interests or "membership"(sports teams being a much more common example, AA being both a positive and negative example) feel, nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
Though, I can't say that that one aspect of our lives, watching cartoons from another country defines our being(disturbing otaku nonwithstanding), but it's easy to think that the significance exists if you get caught up in this subculture...<which I personally don't mind at times, but sometimes to be well rounded, you need a break.>
Especially as this interest is quite niche, people, from what I gather, tend to think of themselves as odd(maybe?) or liking a different, better hobby the others. But this growing "divison of fans, hate of fans" stuff isn't well founded imo, because each individual person is different, not an easily dimissed sterotype. We may want to associate with the mass(hence...eh, visiting forums/cons), but all different sorts of fans exists because we ourselves are different, as silly as I feel stating that. So, essentially Desslock, I was agreeing with your..um,...question, while providing my own sort of explaination. I guess some people just hate the mass, the sterotypical anime fan, because they don't want to associate with those they don't like, even if the interests are the same. It binds some, divides other. I personally don't care...

[Samurai Drifter]

@ EphyonX

That's a large overstatement. The fandom has grown a lot, but in no way is it everywhere (except for kids' stuff), and most regular people don't really know about it. Hell, the first words out of the activities director of my college when we asked to start an anime club was "what's anime?" If by "mainstream" anime, you mean mainstream among fans, I'd agree with that. But the vast majority (upwards of 99%, by the HIGHEST estimates of fan numbers I've heard) of America does not watch anime. Most single primetime TV shows have a larger viewing base than the entire anime fandom, and there are hundreds of anime series.

The anime fandom is probably the most dedicated cult following on Earth. My point being, that's why a lot of the fans are so fanatical. You find very few utterly fanatical fans of mainstream shows. The smaller the fanbase, the higher percentage of people that are really "into it".

That's the reason for the high percentage of wild fans. The others who aren't like that don't have to associate themselves with the others if they don't wish to.

[Nyuu]

*shrug* Im just a casual anime lover, never gone cosplaying and only been to one convention. Everyone seems to get together and have fun like a family at the conventions ive seen though. I dont agree with this generallity.

[Ephyon-x]

[QUOTE=Leader Desslock]I'm an older fan, and I see younger kids as being far more "fannish" than I am. FYI - I think your stereotype is as inaccurate as the one for which you criticized Joeshie. Not that I care, but it's the whole Glass Houses thing.[QUOTE]

1. I never said that older fans are more fannish then new fans.
2. I never said it was correct, i said it was my toughts about it.
3. I Criticized Joeshie's comment since it offends me as a overweight that loves anime.

@ Samurai Drifter
"That's a large overstatement. The fandom has grown a lot, but in no way is it everywhere"

1. Estimated figures, not based on any statistics
2. Never said that everyone knows, "it's everywhere" Was directed to the same thing as when you hear 5 people in a row say the same thing, or when you switch channels on your tv and see the same show on 2 or more channels at once, Which gives out a feeling "Gah, its everywhere" (Not that i know how US channels works), But you get my point i hope

[Samurai Drifter]

Yeah, Joeshie's comment was out of line. No one can really help it if they're fat. Not to mention, there are a ton more fat sports fans than anime fans. I really don't see what weight has to do with anything.

[Leader Desslock]

1. I never said that older fans are more fannish then new fans.
You said, and I quoted: Older fans cant see new fans as fans.

That is an insult to older fans, who you are implying are too short sighted / elitist / uptight / whatever to acknowledge new fans' "fandom". As an older fan, I thought I'd point out that I could have potentially been as offended by that remark as you evidently were by Joeshie's remark: "I Criticized Joeshie's comment since it offends me as a overweight that loves anime."

As it happens, I was not offended. Frankly, I don't get offended by anything that's said on an online forum. I merely wanted to point out your comments because I thought that if you're going to point out that other comments offend you, you might also be interested to know that you're casually tossing out comments that might offend others. So I mentioned Glass Houses and the implied shortsightedness of their denizens throwing stones and all that. I can go with the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" parable if you'd prefer. Either way, I'd advise a moment of introspection at some point. Or not. It's up to you. I don't care either way.

[Dan]

I know it's somewhat of a chore, but Ephyon, maybe you should read all of the previous pages to collect what we've been discussing, I think it would clear some opinions up for you and maybe broaden your view on this issue.

As a side note, I find it funny that I probably fall into this "old fan" stereotype, and yet I'm only 21. I guess I'm old now.

What is important, We share a common love for anime, Dont be greedy, correct instead of flaming. And dont judge a person you dont know!

As far as I am concerned, I believe this is a pretty big problem. Since when do any of us have a love for anime? I know a friend of mine who loves samurai/medieval anime and manga, but he by no means loves "anime". I dont even understand how someone who is such a neophyte could love "anime" given their natural ignorance to the medium.

Taking me for example, you could say I have a love of "anime", but I kind of dont think I do since I dont like/watch probably about 60% or more of what exists, which is pretty natural for anyone. I do have a overall interest in animation, but I cant and wont watch everything, and need to make estimations of what I will and wont like, so I can choose what I'll look into, which brings me to your last issue.

It is innate to judge people you dont know, and absolutely fine to do so. I would judge that someone standing over a body with a smoking gun just shot that person, I judge a raving homeless person probably has some sort of disorder, I judge that a woman wearing a habit probably goes to church every week, or that a teenager at McDonalds is working his first job. Taking you for example, I would judge that you could very well have overweight parents, which naturally led to you body shape. Please try to argue that there is something wrong with that.

The first step to stop "anime fans" from hating "anime fans" is to abolish the "anime fan" idea, and illusions of universal brotherhood. I'm not saying we have to hate each other, I'm not saying we have to be overly cynical, I'm just saying we shouldn't perpetuate these stereotypes.

[Maxximo]

Being a "lonely soul" doesn't excuse you from acting like a total moron.
You know what after seeing these video I have to agree with you. Some of these people in the video acted so much like a idiot and it comes across like that in the video.

Video 1 http://youtube.com/watch?v=hIbPgEyO...rch=usa%20otaku

Video 2 http://youtube.com/watch?v=H3pC39Bk...rch=usa%20otaku

[White hell]

IO've beem reading and I think it's time I put my 2 cents in, I think there a various reasons why anime fans hate on one another not just one general reason. first it could be insercurities. anime is regarded is a niche that attracts "OTAKU"S" some people just can't stand to be considered that so they critique others to raise their own self esteem and try to convince themselves their better than the other fandom. personally I don't care about stupid social cointricts as Labels ( nerd, geek, etc. never did care.) but some people do and they might feel that watching anime makes them a "Social outcast" so they attack others to conmvince themselves that they're better.

Also some anime fans can just be fans of a particular anime itsel;f and not the entire fandom ( My cousin for example , he watches cartoons and certain anime from time to time but he is by no means a hardcore fan) I think The conflict between hardcore fans and fans of a particular series may arise because hardcorre fans may fall intruded.

[Hara!]

IO've beem reading and I think it's time I put my 2 cents in, I think there a various reasons why anime fans hate on one another not just one general reason. first it could be insercurities. anime is regarded is a niche that attracts "OTAKU"S" some people just can't stand to be considered that so they critique others to raise their own self esteem and try to convince themselves their better than the other fandom.

DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNAR!

</thread>

[Olin of Xephon]

NOTICE! TO ALL ANIME FAN HATERS: modern pyschologists say a intense dislike of a person or a group of persons is the result of seeing YOURSELF in them. In other words, most anime fan haters hate anime fans because said anime fans remind these haters a bit to much of themselves. We humans are quite the insecure bunch huh?

[Hara!]

NOTICE! TO ALL ANIME FAN HATERS: modern pyschologists say a intense dislike of a person or a group of persons is the result of seeing YOURSELF in them. In other words, most anime fan haters hate anime fans because said anime fans remind these haters a bit to much of themselves. We humans are quite the insecure bunch huh?
That explains why my younger cousins annoy me...

[Dinco]

NOTICE! TO ALL ANIME FAN HATERS: modern pyschologists say a intense dislike of a person or a group of persons is the result of seeing YOURSELF in them. In other words, most anime fan haters hate anime fans because said anime fans remind these haters a bit to much of themselves. We humans are quite the insecure bunch huh?
Kind of pretentious there. How about lets keep it simple? Not everyone is going to like everyone else, its just the way things are. I'm not going to like annoying or stupid people just becuase they are anime fans. As is I wouldn't associate with most anime fans becuaes they fall into that category. My suggestion, move on to expending your energy on discussing something that is more productive. Complaining about people complaining is going to accomplish nothing.

[RyoTD]

NOTICE! TO ALL ANIME FAN HATERS: modern pyschologists say a intense dislike of a person or a group of persons is the result of seeing YOURSELF in them. In other words, most anime fan haters hate anime fans because said anime fans remind these haters a bit to much of themselves. We humans are quite the insecure bunch huh?
Actually, that sounds pretty logical. I agree with it.

[Philemon]

My suggestion, move on to expending your energy on discussing something that is more productive. Complaining about people complaining is going to accomplish nothing.

Take note of this proverb:

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.

[ervin]

Just because they have something in common (anime), dosent mean they will love eachother.

Also, I think the question is a bit ignorant, because it considers anime as one whole thing. Im sure theres no one person that has seen (or partialy seen) over 20 animes, and loves every one of them. All animes are different, I love ergo proxy, yet hate pokemon, Im not going to fall inlove with the next pokemon fan I meet.

The same problem falls into critics of anime who say its "childish", theese are the most ignorant people ive ever heard of, simply because they generalize anime as one thing. This usually happens when the the first anime a critic sees is something like pokemon, then sees nothing better. most of us will agree that animes like that are terrible, and if all animes would be like that, we would commit suicide, so if we wouldnt have been opened to other animes, we would have never been into anime.

[Dan]

Just because they have something in common (anime), dosent mean they will love eachother.

Also, I think the question is a bit ignorant, because it considers anime as one whole thing. Im sure theres no one person that has seen (or partialy seen) over 20 animes, and loves every one of them. All animes are different, I love ergo proxy, yet hate pokemon, Im not going to fall inlove with the next pokemon fan I meet.
.

Exactly. I think people are neglecting the first pages, though. Please read them, you will understand better before whipping out a one sentence comment (not directed at ervin, you have the right idea)

[Dinco]

The same problem falls into critics of anime who say its "childish", theese are the most ignorant people ive ever heard of, simply because they generalize anime as one thing. This usually happens when the the first anime a critic sees is something like pokemon, then sees nothing better. most of us will agree that animes like that are terrible, and if all animes would be like that, we would commit suicide, so if we wouldnt have been opened to other animes, we would have never been into anime.
I love over 20 animes. Just not the ones that are ultra popular.

[Spadesy]

I know you didn't come anywhere close to asking me, but I wanna throw my hat into the ring.

I think it's because when an anime fan checks out something foreign and strange, and enjoys it, that fan sees it as something that expresses his/her individuality. And there's nothing that pisses off somebody more when another person parades in on their individuality, when that fan thinks he/she should be the "head honcho" of all things anime.

Rational? No. Natural? Very much so.

Look at these forums. No matter what topic you bring up, you're gonna find fans willing to argue and pick a fight just for the sake of arguing and picking a fight. I'd like it more if people could have some honest, interesting conversations rather than page-long debates. But that's just my opinion.

[mecegirl]

NOTICE! TO ALL ANIME FAN HATERS: modern pyschologists say a intense dislike of a person or a group of persons is the result of seeing YOURSELF in them. In other words, most anime fan haters hate anime fans because said anime fans remind these haters a bit to much of themselves. We humans are quite the insecure bunch huh?
Oh wow I have the perfect example. I have a friend who is an anime fanboy at heart. He is not a rabid one but he has his moments. This cute girl kinda likes him but he won’t ask her out because he believes that she is too into anime. Which compared to some she isn't. But that’s not the point. They are so alike.

People have different levels of intolerance. Some are mature about their intolerance and some aren’t. Some simply keep their distance and others take the time to pick on people. Yes all anime fans wont get along just because they all like anime. But some do take the time to ridicule (or just plain out be mean to) other fans and I think that is the behavior that Milky Mixer is asking about.

As to why? I don’t know. Personally I don’t like picking on anyone no matter how annoying they are because I know what it is like to be picked on. I don’t think that anyone here actively “persecutes” (using the word extremely lightly) other fans they just ignore them and maybe gives them a little space.

As far as the screaming anime fan girl is concerned. They can be tolerated. I happen to live with one. (14-year-old sister)

[Loopy]

I know you didn't come anywhere close to asking me, but I wanna throw my hat into the ring.

I think it's because when an anime fan checks out something foreign and strange, and enjoys it, that fan sees it as something that expresses his/her individuality.

In other words, some grow personal to an entertainment medium out of a desire and love it to the point of being obnoxious, as many Japan-worshippers and manglers of the Japanese language will show you.

[Vaikyuko]

My theory is that anime is a very personal hobby for non-Japanese citizens. Since anime is relatively obscure and difficult to obtain, fans treasure it and immerse themselves in it. There's a natural jealousy and aversion to the feeling that someone else is imposing upon your personal property or your personal hobby. I think that subconsciously many anime fans may feel threatened by others who share the anime hobby because when an anime fan encounters another fan who doesn't react to anime in the same way, there's a feeling that anime itself is less special and personal.

Ladies and gentleman, the Jury (which can't fight symbiotes well*) rests.

*cookie if you get the reference.

[*koji]

Gee, you folks are scaring me. I've generally liked other anime fans, even the hypergeeks and those who think Dragonball Z is the best production ever. Are you telling me there's supposed to be some animosity here? Seems like if we hated each other so much, there wouldn't be all this conversation.

[Leader Desslock]

Once you've been around AN a while, you'll see that the threads that get the most responses are the ones that generate the most animosity. The fact that this thread has made it 8 pages (and was briefly linked to another thread, if I remember correctly) demonstrates just how much animosity there is among fans.

Try starting a 'dub versus sub' thread if you want to see just how much animosity there is. Or a 'cartoons versus anime thread'. Or - even one we should all agree on: 'how do you define anime'? Those are all good flamebait.

Please don't start any of those threads, by the way. Please also avoid creating any thread containing the words "best ever", "top ten" or "vs" in the title. Trust me on this. Good luck.

[LostCause]

Once you've been around AN a while, you'll see that the threads that get the most responses are the ones that generate the most animosity. The fact that this thread has made it 8 pages (and was briefly linked to another thread, if I remember correctly) demonstrates just how much animosity there is among fans.

True! The thread "What kind of anime fan you can't stand?" was about 6-7 pages long. The thread "What kind of anime fan do you like?" died on a second page.
It's human nature. We whine when things don't go our way and take it for granted when they do.
Since I just broke my oath of not posting in this thread, I might as well let my views on its subject be known.
See my sig.

[h0ckey2244]

i like anime fans who can speak of something besides anime.. the ones who say:
"ANIME IS MY LIFE!!"
get annoying and need to get out... but less hardcore fans i get allong with...

[Spadesy]

In other words, some grow personal to an entertainment medium out of a desire and love it to the point of being obnoxious, as many Japan-worshippers and manglers of the Japanese language will show you.

People do it everyday, attach themselves with an entertainment medium to show a "personal expression." And not just with anime either. Music, TV shows, movies to name a few...

Go to myspace. If you see that somebody, for example, likes a lot of heavy metal and has a dark background, you'd assume that they are a metal head, probably with a personality like that of a metal singer. If you see that somebody likes Requiem For a Dream and Kids as movies (the fact I do hasn't a thing to do with it ;) ), you'd assume they're probably a little strange in the head because they like movies with messed up premises.

So it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it becomes a bad thing when people become argumentative over what really "belongs" to them as expressions of individuality.

[Soluzar]

Try starting a 'dub versus sub' thread if you want to see just how much animosity there is. Or a 'cartoons versus anime thread'. Or - even one we should all agree on: 'how do you define anime'? Those are all good flamebait.

Don't encourage such things! If any of those threads get started by the person you were addressing, I'm going to hunt you down, and punch you in the kidneys. :P

[MagicianCamille]

Same reason humans hate other humans. We're HOT BLOODED.

*starts playing "Hot Blooded" by Foreigner*

[Bernard_Monsha]

Once you've been around AN a while, you'll see that the threads that get the most responses are the ones that generate the most animosity. The fact that this thread has made it 8 pages (and was briefly linked to another thread, if I remember correctly) demonstrates just how much animosity there is among fans.

There are certain people as well who type in one letter and start off a firestorm. One in particular will start a riot then post in another thread about how he is misunderstood and maligned.

[Olin of Xephon]

Because its easier than trying to love other anime fans! :) (self satisfied nod)

[*koji]

Once you've been around AN a while, you'll see that the threads that get the most responses are the ones that generate the most animosity. The fact that this thread has made it 8 pages (and was briefly linked to another thread, if I remember correctly) demonstrates just how much animosity there is among fans.

I'm here as a refugee from the Animetric forums (God rest their soul; my attempt to keep the community alive is failing because so few people have found my site. At least I had the forethought to scrape all of Ro's reviews before her main site died!) Anyway, we got into some heated discussion (especially the one about whether anime has to be Japanese) but I never sensed any real animosity. There seemed to be more of a sense of camaraderie. I really miss shana, neko_shrine, and others.

I wonder if there is difference in personality between boards or if it was just my perception.

[Milky Mixer]

I'm here as a refugee from the Animetric forums (God rest their soul; my attempt to keep the community alive is failing because so few people have found my site. At least I had the forethought to scrape all of Ro's reviews before her main site died!) Anyway, we got into some heated discussion (especially the one about whether anime has to be Japanese) but I never sensed any real animosity. There seemed to be more of a sense of camaraderie. I really miss shana, neko_shrine, and others.

I wonder if there is difference in personality between boards or if it was just my perception.

That's entirely possible. I never really noticed any animosity at the conventions I've attended. I only really notice it online... maybe because it's not only easier for people to misinterpret one another but also easier to insult someone when you're not dealing with that person face-to-face.

[Leader Desslock]

That's entirely possible. I never really noticed any animosity at the conventions I've attended. I only really notice it online... maybe because it's not only easier for people to misinterpret one another but also easier to insult someone when you're not dealing with that person face-to-face.
I'm every bit as ... abrasive... in person as I am online, but I think at least one difference is that the people who get really sick of squealy fangirls and manfayes just don't go to conventions. I've never been. Because I don't care for elements of the fanbase, I have no urge to go. That, and the day I pay a company money so that I can attend their advertisement will be a cold day in Arizona.

Forums attract a more diverse audience to begin with, I think.

[Milky Mixer]

What's "Manfaye?"

And most cons are not "advertisements," at least the ones I've attended. Most are put on by fans just like us.

[Leader Desslock]

^ DON'T ASK!!!

It's... an inappropriate cosplayer. A man. Faye Valentine. Try not to imagine it.

[Milky Mixer]

^ DON'T ASK!!!

It's... an inappropriate cosplayer. A man. Faye Valentine. Try not to imagine it.

Those types of cosplayers are few and far between, from what I've seen (or not seen) at the cons I've attended.

[Leader Desslock]

Fine. If it's worth the risk for you to see one, good luck with that. It's not worth mine. Nor is the stench of the unbathed, nor is the rest of it.

And if you don't consider the promotional activities of 'panel experts' and whatnot an advertisement, I can't help you. The advertising slant of the promotional activities is a bit harder to deny, however. Look at all the stuff in the back of any convention picture. Most of that came out of SOMEONE's advertising budget, whether the entire event is sponsored by, say, ADV or not. Of course, when an event IS sponsored by one of the big boys, it just gets worse.

If you enjoy hobnobbing in that atmosphere, more power to you. Really. You probably won't see me there.

[Milky Mixer]

Fine. If it's worth the risk for you to see one, good luck with that. It's not worth mine. Nor is the stench of the unbathed, nor is the rest of it.

No offense, but you yourself said you've never been to a convention. So how do you really know they're like that? I mean, you've never had the experience of attending and seeing for yourself if everyone there is a smelly, drooling know-it-all or a squealing yaoi fangirl.

And if you don't consider the promotional activities of 'panel experts' and whatnot an advertisement, I can't help you. The advertising slant of the promotional activities is a bit harder to deny, however. Look at all the stuff in the back of any convention picture. Most of that came out of SOMEONE's advertising budget, whether the entire event is sponsored by, say, ADV or not. Of course, when an event IS sponsored by one of the big boys, it just gets worse.

Heh, well thanks, but I wasn't really looking for your help. Sure, it's promotional when someone from Dark Horse or ADV hosts a panel showcasing their upcoming releases or when they put up posters and the like showcasing their upcoming products - but that's not purely what a con is all about and anyone is capable of attending whatever panels or events they want. No one's gonna make you go sit and listen to the ADV people. You can do other things, like learn how to make an AMV or watch the ones that fans like yourself worked really hard to make and enter into the con's AMV competition. That's not advertising. Or how about hanging out in a viewing room and catching a show you've never seen before - some of them can even be titles that haven't been licensed by a US company. So no advertising there. Or if you're into video games or card games, how about entering one of the competitions at the con, or just play with other fans for fun. Some cons work really hard to bring in cool guests, too - not just the "experts" or the US voice actors. Tsutomu Nihei, the creator of Blame!, is going to be appearing at a con in Phoenix in December... that's not really "advertising" to bring him to the US and host him as a guest, is it? Not trying to be a total jerk here, but just saying that these events are for the fans as much if not more than they are for the companies who are releasing anime in the US and want you to by their products. A lot of people put in their own time and money or volunteer in order to organize these events, and many of these folks have nothing to do with ADV, Geneon, etc.

If you enjoy hobnobbing in that atmosphere, more power to you. Really. You probably won't see me there.

Really not trying to butt heads with you, but I think you're missing out. You should go to a con and experience it firsthand. Sure, you might get blindsided by a squealing yaoi fangirl or find yourself stuck in line behind a smelly know-it-all... or you might just see a bunch of regular folks having a good time, and you might even have a good time yourself! :P

[greg]

Some cons work really hard to bring in cool guests, too - not just the "experts" or the US voice actors.
It's just unfortunate that it's necessary to differentiate like that, though. Looking back at the glory days of anime cons when they had guests like Mikimoto, Sonoda, Megumi Hayashibara, etc... I really wish I was able to go to an anime con at that time. But it seems that most of them have the English dubbing voice actors and such that it seems boring. Plus adding to this the fact that most of it is centered on only newer anime is the reason why I declined to go to AX this year, even though I was in town during that time. Anime cons seem to be pointed at the new generation of anime fans that stuck-up elitists like myself look down on.

I've only been to the San Diego Comic Con, which is great fun because it has plenty of anime and much more. The last time I went, in '01, they had Rumiko Takahashi and Monkey Punch as guests. Maybe an all-anime con would get boring real quickly for me. The best part of a con would be the dealers room, but I get my fill on that when I visit Japan every year.

[Leader Desslock]

I wouldn't even respond to your post, but since it's your thread and you want to know why other people don't have any connection to 'fandom', I think this is pretty on-topic...

You can do other things, like learn how to make an AMV or watch the ones that fans like yourself worked really hard to make and enter into the con's AMV competition.
I don't like AMV's. I think I've seen 3 that I liked. Ever. I guess I have no problem with the concept of them (aside from the obvious copyright infringement), but the field seems to be even more bereft of talent than fan art and fanfiction. I can almost never stand to finish one, they're that bad.

Then again, I thought MTV was a pretty stupid concept when it came out, too. I just don't like music videos. You're musicians? Great. Play music. I don't need to look at you.

Or how about hanging out in a viewing room and catching a show you've never seen before - some of them can even be titles that haven't been licensed by a US company.
Given your recent experience with Air Master, I'd think you of all people would understand why I try avoid shows until they've been completed and completely released on R1. All a screening room means to me is, "Hey kids! Come see what you can't have!" No thanks. And yes, it is an advertisement.

Or if you're into video games or card games...
I'm not. Next!

Tsutomu Nihei, the creator of Blame!, is going to be appearing at a con in Phoenix in December... that's not really "advertising" to bring him to the US and host him as a guest, is it?
Yes it is, and since I haven't seen Blame!, I can't think why I'd care to meet him.

I think Rumiko Takahashi is one of the best manga artists out there, but I have no need to meet her. She doesn't speak English. What would be the point? As long as she continues to write, I'll buy the stuff of hers that I enjoy. I really don't care what she's like as a person.


As I said. Enjoy your convention. Don't worry about getting there early - I promise that I won't take your parking spot. ^_^

[Milky Mixer]

As I said. Enjoy your convention. Don't worry about getting there early - I promise that I won't take your parking spot. ^_^

Naw, you'll be too busy sitting at home on the computer... Just kiddin'! Kinda. Heh!

Seriously though, I don't understand the idea that having a mangaka from another country as a guest is an "advertisement." Ok, I guess if you've got a Tokyopop booth setup outside of the panel room where Blame!'s creator is appearing, then yeah, maybe they'll be able to sell some of their books. But don't you think a lot of the people who are already fans of Blame! are going to be interested in hearing what he has to say, even if it's via a translator? Don't you think his appearance will attract folks who are already familiar with his work and thus don't need to stop by the Tokyopop booth or whatever? It's not everyday that a fan gets to meet or hear a favorite creator speak about a series that said fan has already been enjoying. You aren't interested in learning about the creative process behind one of your favorite manga or anime? What better way to do this than to get up close and personal with the creator himself! I guess some people don't care about that kind of stuff... nothing wrong with that, but for those that do, it's a lot of fun. And a lot of the guests who are there to meet the fans are perfectly cool people. I was really surprised by how down-to-earth and friendly Richard Epcar, the VA for GitS's Batou in the US dub, was when I met him at a con. He really seems to appreciate the work he does, and he didn't seem to be there to hype anything. There was some celebration of Robotech's anniversary happening, but dang, with Shadow Chronlicles barely in the beginning stages of animation, it wasn't like they could really hype something that didn't exist. He just told cool stories about working on a variety of projects, behind-the-scenes tales, things he likes about his job, things he doesn't. It was neat stuff. I know he's a US VA, but it seems like the Japanese guests would be the same way...

As for the Air Master situation, well, yes, that was unfortunate, wasn't it? To discover a show I couldn't really "have?" But at the very same con, I also was able to check out VOTOMS in one of the viewing rooms... an older show I'd never really known anything about, and I found it just as cool and compelling as Air Master and I was able to happily go out and get the first couple of dvd's. So you win some, you lose some. And I choose to think of that as "exposure" rather than "advertising" or "promoting," since no one was even at the convention from the company doing VOTOMS. I just went into the viewing room to kill some time between other activities and ended up discovering a fun show!

If you choose not to "mingle" with other anime fans, that's perfectly fine and your business. Heck, I don't just strike up random conversations at conventions with people. I'm shy. But I'm getting out there and having a good time and enjoying the anime fandom... rather than knockin' the diversity of the fans. Like I said, I'm not trying to butt heads with you, just saying I think you should go to a con and see what it's like and see what some of the anime fans are like before making a real judgment about it all. If it's a waste of time, well, you wasted a day and you can say you were right about all those smelly guys and cosplay drag queens.

[Milky Mixer]

Plus adding to this the fact that most of it is centered on only newer anime is the reason why I declined to go to AX this year, even though I was in town during that time. Anime cons seem to be pointed at the new generation of anime fans that stuck-up elitists like myself look down on.

Are you seriously calling yourself a stuck-up elitist? Heh! Yeah, I agree that there is a new generation of fans who enjoy the newer shows like FMA and Naruto and aren't very interested in older titles. And yes, since these are the hot properties in the US you're going to see more support for these newer titles. But you never know... like I said, I've been to cons that have celebrated Robotech, Dirty Pair, shows that aren't the brand new glossy shiny anime on tv. And of course my above remarks about VOTOMS are proof that an old treasure can be discovered just as easily as a wicked newer series like Air Master.

[Samurai Drifter]

Dear John,

Why the hell is this thread still going?

-Samurai Drifter

[Matsu'o Tsurayaba]

The thread is doing exactly as the title states.Anime fans hate other anime fans.

[Ninja337]

(2) know-it-all fanboy
Check, that's me.

I have hated anime fans for as long as I can remember. None of my friends are anime fans, I have only two friends who even like anime. 3/4 of my friends hate anime and hate anime fans even more.

First off, I hate cosplayers. A bunch of ugly wenches dress up like anime characters and think they are hot/cute/cool/thin. They insult anime characters, and make anime fans look like freaks.
I hate Yaoi fans. They are big fat girls who can't get dates and watch repackaged manporn.
I hate fanartists who think that gaijin can draw manga. They are horribly mistaken, as their work looks like **** and flowers + big eyes does not equal shojou.
I hate fangirls. Anime used to be such a patraiarchal thing for me, and back when I had more friends that liked anime back when I was little, I felt proud of being semi-geeky, and I held a small ammount of masculinity to that. But now all these girls bringing in their retarded fantasies about Sasuke and crap are making anime into a teaparty. Some even dare to insult Fist of the North Star and Dragonball Z.
And all the frigging grammar mistakes. Have animefans never learned how to speak English? I can speak English, Romanian, Italian and French and you people can't even capitlize a sentence? And what is with the verticons? (^_^ -.-) Chances are you are not Asian or speak an Asian language so keep Asian language conventions to Asian languages. And the godamn interjections! English already has enough interjections, we do not need words like baka, kawaii, and sugoii clogging up the language. Do you even know what kawaii means? PATHETIC like an anime fan. PATHETIC.
And these fools who think they know anything about Japan. What does knowing what Visual-K and where all the shops in Shibuya are mean if you don't even know who the Emperor is?
And then there are these Wapanese freaks who want a Japanese girlfriend or want to move to Japan. Leave Japan to the Japanese, people. It's a good place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there, and they don't want you eaither.
And then there are the AMVs. I cannot believe how much aclaim these retarded AMVs get. Get a bunch of clips, get a crappy rock song, put them on a WMV file, post to youtube, done. Not acceptable ,not cool. Sometimes they are funny, but when they aren't they are useless.
And I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.

These people make me feel embarassed and ashamed to be an anime fan. If people would just STFU and just keep watching anime then these kind of problems wouldn't happen. This is why I dub myself, Japanese Animation, Graphic Novel and Culture Enthusiast.

Also Tokyopop, I hate you too/

[Hara!]

Check, that's me.

I have hated anime fans for as long as I can remember. None of my friends are anime fans, I have only two friends who even like anime. 3/4 of my friends hate anime and hate anime fans even more.

First off, I hate cosplayers. A bunch of ugly wenches dress up like anime characters and think they are hot/cute/cool/thin. They insult anime characters, and make anime fans look like freaks.
I hate Yaoi fans. They are big fat girls who can't get dates and watch repackaged manporn.
I hate fanartists who think that gaijin can draw manga. They are horribly mistaken, as their work looks like **** and flowers + big eyes does not equal shojou.
I hate fangirls. Anime used to be such a patraiarchal thing for me, and back when I had more friends that liked anime back when I was little, I felt proud of being semi-geeky, and I held a small ammount of masculinity to that. But now all these girls bringing in their retarded fantasies about Sasuke and crap are making anime into a teaparty. Some even dare to insult Fist of the North Star and Dragonball Z.
And all the frigging grammar mistakes. Have animefans never learned how to speak English? I can speak English, Romanian, Italian and French and you people can't even capitlize a sentence? And what is with the verticons? (^_^ -.-) Chances are you are not Asian or speak an Asian language so keep Asian language conventions to Asian languages. And the godamn interjections! English already has enough interjections, we do not need words like baka, kawaii, and sugoii clogging up the language. Do you even know what kawaii means? PATHETIC like an anime fan. PATHETIC.
And these fools who think they know anything about Japan. What does knowing what Visual-K and where all the shops in Shibuya are mean if you don't even know who the Emperor is?
And then there are these Wapanese freaks who want a Japanese girlfriend or want to move to Japan. Leave Japan to the Japanese, people. It's a good place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there, and they don't want you eaither.
And then there are the AMVs. I cannot believe how much aclaim these retarded AMVs get. Get a bunch of clips, get a crappy rock song, put them on a WMV file, post to youtube, done. Not acceptable ,not cool. Sometimes they are funny, but when they aren't they are useless.
And I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.

These people make me feel embarassed and ashamed to be an anime fan. If people would just STFU and just keep watching anime then these kind of problems wouldn't happen. This is why I dub myself, Japanese Animation, Graphic Novel and Culture Enthusiast.

Also Tokyopop, I hate you too/


lord this guy is aggro. Dude, did you not read any previous post?

[Levon]

Check, that's me.

I have hated anime fans for as long as I can remember. None of my friends are anime fans, I have only two friends who even like anime. 3/4 of my friends hate anime and hate anime fans even more.

First off, I hate cosplayers. A bunch of ugly wenches dress up like anime characters and think they are hot/cute/cool/thin. They insult anime characters, and make anime fans look like freaks.
I hate Yaoi fans. They are big fat girls who can't get dates and watch repackaged manporn.
I hate fanartists who think that gaijin can draw manga. They are horribly mistaken, as their work looks like **** and flowers + big eyes does not equal shojou.
I hate fangirls. Anime used to be such a patraiarchal thing for me, and back when I had more friends that liked anime back when I was little, I felt proud of being semi-geeky, and I held a small ammount of masculinity to that. But now all these girls bringing in their retarded fantasies about Sasuke and crap are making anime into a teaparty. Some even dare to insult Fist of the North Star and Dragonball Z.
And all the frigging grammar mistakes. Have animefans never learned how to speak English? I can speak English, Romanian, Italian and French and you people can't even capitlize a sentence? And what is with the verticons? ( -.-) Chances are you are not Asian or speak an Asian language so keep Asian language conventions to Asian languages. And the godamn interjections! English already has enough interjections, we do not need words like baka, kawaii, and sugoii clogging up the language. Do you even know what kawaii means? PATHETIC like an anime fan. PATHETIC.
And these fools who think they know anything about Japan. What does knowing what Visual-K and where all the shops in Shibuya are mean if you don't even know who the Emperor is?
And then there are these Wapanese freaks who want a Japanese girlfriend or want to move to Japan. Leave Japan to the Japanese, people. It's a good place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there, and they don't want you eaither.
And then there are the AMVs. I cannot believe how much aclaim these retarded AMVs get. Get a bunch of clips, get a crappy rock song, put them on a WMV file, post to youtube, done. Not acceptable ,not cool. Sometimes they are funny, but when they aren't they are useless.
And I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.

These people make me feel embarassed and ashamed to be an anime fan. If people would just STFU and just keep watching anime then these kind of problems wouldn't happen. This is why I dub myself, Japanese Animation, Graphic Novel and Culture Enthusiast.

Also Tokyopop, I hate you too/

Oh the hypocrisy:lol:

Enough with the arrogance. People that cosplay, make AMV & yaoi fans arn't the problem. To insult whole fanbases like that is the problem, its not like the fanbases insulted you. Sure, I guess maybe you had times where a few people from those fanbases might have insulted you or annoyed you but welcome to life, there are people like that everywhere. I quote you "I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.", so you must hate yourself. Your a hypocrite.

[Loopy]

Check, that's me.

I have hated anime fans for as long as I can remember. None of my friends are anime fans, I have only two friends who even like anime. 3/4 of my friends hate anime and hate anime fans even more.

First off, I hate cosplayers. A bunch of ugly wenches dress up like anime characters and think they are hot/cute/cool/thin. They insult anime characters, and make anime fans look like freaks.
I hate Yaoi fans. They are big fat girls who can't get dates and watch repackaged manporn.
I hate fanartists who think that gaijin can draw manga. They are horribly mistaken, as their work looks like **** and flowers + big eyes does not equal shojou.
I hate fangirls. Anime used to be such a patraiarchal thing for me, and back when I had more friends that liked anime back when I was little, I felt proud of being semi-geeky, and I held a small ammount of masculinity to that. But now all these girls bringing in their retarded fantasies about Sasuke and crap are making anime into a teaparty. Some even dare to insult Fist of the North Star and Dragonball Z.
And all the frigging grammar mistakes. Have animefans never learned how to speak English? I can speak English, Romanian, Italian and French and you people can't even capitlize a sentence? And what is with the verticons? (^_^ -.-) Chances are you are not Asian or speak an Asian language so keep Asian language conventions to Asian languages. And the godamn interjections! English already has enough interjections, we do not need words like baka, kawaii, and sugoii clogging up the language. Do you even know what kawaii means? PATHETIC like an anime fan. PATHETIC.
And these fools who think they know anything about Japan. What does knowing what Visual-K and where all the shops in Shibuya are mean if you don't even know who the Emperor is?
And then there are these Wapanese freaks who want a Japanese girlfriend or want to move to Japan. Leave Japan to the Japanese, people. It's a good place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there, and they don't want you eaither.
And then there are the AMVs. I cannot believe how much aclaim these retarded AMVs get. Get a bunch of clips, get a crappy rock song, put them on a WMV file, post to youtube, done. Not acceptable ,not cool. Sometimes they are funny, but when they aren't they are useless.
And I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.

These people make me feel embarassed and ashamed to be an anime fan. If people would just STFU and just keep watching anime then these kind of problems wouldn't happen. This is why I dub myself, Japanese Animation, Graphic Novel and Culture Enthusiast.

Also Tokyopop, I hate you too/

You're a hypocritical kid with anger problems. Get therapy kthxbai.

[gl0ww0rm]

hmm, I dont exactly like people who like the same anime as me, i guess what im getting at is that.. im either selfish and most people at my school are watching anime because its "cool" <_<

[Ninja337]

Oh the hypocrisy:lol:

Enough with the arrogance. People that cosplay, make AMV & yaoi fans arn't the problem. To insult whole fanbases like that is the problem, its not like the fanbases insulted you. Sure, I guess maybe you had times where a few people from those fanbases might have insulted you or annoyed you but welcome to life, there are people like that everywhere. I quote you "I hate people who go on hatespawns too!! Shut up about all the people you hate, it's not cool.", so you must hate yourself. Your a hypocrite.
That's not hipocrisy, you do not know what hipocracy is. Hipocrisy is pretending to have virtues one does not posess. What you are thinking of is Inconsistancy I think, which I'm not trying to have. I do hate myself ofcourse, everyone hates themself somehow, and I know that it is wrong for people like me to go on hate spawn so I included that.

People that cosplay, make AMV & yaoi fans aren't a problem, they are too insignifigant to create one ofcourse. Are they incompetant though? Umm.. Yes.

[FaeQueen]

I have no problem with other anime fans. If I find someone around my area that likes anime too, I'm ecstatic :).