yaoi or yuri [Archive] - AnimeNation Forums

LostCause

June 9th, 2006, 07:03 AM

Saying Superior... it CAN be taken both ways really.

For one, by arrogance, I see what you mean. He could be saying that Yuri is the best of anything as in putting down all the yaoi and stuff.

BUT is can be an opinion too. In HIS eyes, he might just be saying it from his eyes. Of course everyone sees things superior to other things. I don't mean to drag this into politics, but some people thing Bush is a superior leader (xD) and some think he isn't. See where i am coming from? It CAN be an opinion. In this case, substituting bush with Yaoi or Yuri.

It just depends how you are using the word superior. I see it more as an opinion in this case as well...so... >.>

You know, the truth usually lies in the middle.
Furthermore, i don't think superior is an appropriate term, when distinguishing between 2 branches of the same genre.
I mean, would you call apples superior to oranges? Both are fruit. You like one, i like the other, lets leave it at that.
But i do see where u coming from. I probably misunderstood.
So benefit of the doubt it is.

Sushikins

June 9th, 2006, 07:15 AM

I like both, but I tend to lean towads yuri more.

semaj550

June 9th, 2006, 08:13 AM

For as pointless as I see this debate being, I'll still throw in my vote for yuri.

ZoharContact

June 9th, 2006, 09:12 AM

I like yuri more, simply because it's the type of love I identify with. Not really a question of quality.

People often think of Yuri and Yaoi as being two sides of a coin, but it's the same damned coin. One side is only millimeters away from the other. It's a natural habit of English speakers to divide two related concepts into poles and rank them, but I'd like to think of us all being on the same side, personally...

We all like what we like, but the goal is the same, right? We would like to give anime/manga/etc. with homosexual characters more exposure, am I wrong? Just because one is having more success than the other doesn't mean it's detrimental for the other. If anything, it will probably give the other a boost.

amandamadd

June 9th, 2006, 03:58 PM

I like yaoi more. What can I say - I like guys! Doesnt matter if I'm with them or not.

dunno001

June 9th, 2006, 06:10 PM

*sighs* Great, the kids are out, it seems...

Anyway, yes, this is quite redundant. However, as one can surmise from my avatar, it would definitely be yaoi. Yuri just doesn't do the same thing for me...

Venus

June 9th, 2006, 06:50 PM

I prefer yaoi. I don't have a problem with yuri but it just doesn't do anything for me like yaoi does. Btw, is there a reason why I'm getting a distinct feeling of yaoi hatred here? I feel like I'm being bashed over the head with "yuri is better." And I have to say its rather annoying, not to mention getting old.

Animematt55

June 9th, 2006, 07:02 PM

I feel like I'm being bashed over the head with "yuri is better." And I have to say its rather annoying, not to mention getting old.
Well, they do say the truth hurts. :rolleyes:
BTW, can you describe why yuri "doesnt do anything for you" Are you only thinking of the hentai side? have you even watched maria-sama ga miteru? strawberry panic? etc etc.

earsofdoom

June 9th, 2006, 07:03 PM

...Just because one is having more success than the other doesn't mean it's detrimental for the other. If anything, it will probably give the other a boost.

that's usually the case... but it seem's a little different. The really "annoying-rabid-yaoi-fangirl's-that-normal-yaoi-fangirl's-hate" Have a very STRONG hatred for yuri and will bash it constantly, I've also noticed that some girl's have a really strong hatred for lesbian's.... my friend got beat up by 3 girl's becouse of it not to long ago (poor girl... verbal abuse is one thing but actually physically harming her....that's just sad)

Animematt55

June 9th, 2006, 07:27 PM

that's usually the case... but it seem's a little different. The really "annoying-rabid-yaoi-fangirl's-that-normal-yaoi-fangirl's-hate" Have a very STRONG hatred for yuri and will bash it constantly, I've also noticed that some girl's have a really strong hatred for lesbian's.... my friend got beat up by 3 girl's becouse of it not to long ago (poor girl... verbal abuse is one thing but actually physically harming her....that's just sad)
i hear ya. They are the absolute worst. I have also known lesbians that take a lot of verbal abuse.
there is some big forum somewhere that is all girls that are obsessed with yaoi (especially the graphic hentai side) and constantly bash yuri, lesbians, and any female anime girl that 'gets in the way' or "is a stupid ****"

DazzleKitty

June 9th, 2006, 08:17 PM

Well, they do say the truth hurts. :rolleyes:

You truly are an arrogant @$$.

i hear ya. They are the absolute worst. I have also known lesbians that take a lot of verbal abuse.
there is some big forum somewhere that is all girls that are obsessed with yaoi (especially the graphic hentai side) and constantly bash yuri, lesbians, and any female anime girl that 'gets in the way' or "is a stupid ****"

Yes, that's true. Every fandom has it's morons - like the yuri fandom has you.
I have seen fanboys do the same thing. They dislike bishounen or are very narrow-minded to any anime with gayness. I have seen that more among guys than fangirls anyways.
I am not just trying to defend my fandom, but I think that gay guys get more verbal abuse. Right now it's okay for girls to be gay or bi - actually, it's rather 'popular'. However, gay guys are still 'ick' by society.

LostCause

June 9th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Animematt55

June 9th, 2006, 08:42 PM

You truly are an arrogant @$$.

I am not just trying to defend my fandom, but I think that gay guys get more verbal abuse. Right now it's okay for girls to be gay or bi - actually, it's rather 'popular'. However, gay guys are still 'ick' by society.
First of all. I was joking.

ALso, it is ONLY ok for girls to be gay or bi if they are smoking hot. butch girls etc. are NOT accepted at all.
I agree, gay males are far more descriminated against. I dont know why, especially why they are also descriminated by a lot of women. Society just doesnt make sense.
It is also accepted for guys to be close minded about stuff liek that

Animematt55

June 9th, 2006, 08:45 PM

I thought i should state my opinion for the record at least.
I really had high hopes for yuri genre, seeing as i had enjoyed it in tv format. "bad girls" is in my top 3 tv series. But the character design threw me off. A lot of it is just too 'girly' . That said, i admit i haven't watched a lot , and am definetely going to give it another try.
After i have seen all the shonen-ai i can lay my hands on. -_-;
Yuri is supposed to be girly. It is made by women for women. But i dont really know what you mean by 'girly'. The shonen-ai i have seen hasnt been too girly. Which is odd to me, cause it is ment for girls.

earsofdoom

June 9th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Yuri is supposed to be girly. It is made by women for women. But i dont really know what you mean by 'girly'. The shonen-ai i have seen hasnt been too girly. Which is odd to me, cause it is ment for girls.

Yuri is actually usually aimed at both gender's, there's usually some bit's unneccessary crappy fanservice and pointless junk for the guy's. marimite is an yuri aimed purely at the female audiance though.

LostCause

June 9th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Yuri is supposed to be girly. It is made by women for women. But i dont really know what you mean by 'girly'. The shonen-ai i have seen hasnt been too girly. Which is odd to me, cause it is ment for girls.
By girly i mean just that, long hair, short skirts etc..
A little nod to reality, where less feminine women are a big part of lesbian culture, wouldn't kill. But i do realise that anime industry plays by its own rules, so not holding my breath here.
And i'm not a fan of cross dressing, so thats not what i meant.
but something along this lines would be nice.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/LostCause2/SerialExperimentLain2.jpg

Just in case it has been done, i will take my words back. Like i said, i haven't seen much yet.
Oh, and assuming all girls must like girly stuff would be a sweeping generalisation.

Animematt55

June 9th, 2006, 10:44 PM

Maria-sama has masculine girls. But since they are in a school they wear skirts.
But i do agree with you. I do rather liek the more masculine type girls. Lain, and Kino are good examples.

Steel Angel Kurumi has some masculine girls too. But that is more male oriented.

i also havent seen too much shonen-ai. I tried some manga, but it was nothing but smut. I am planning on getting Gravi when i get soem extra cash (a 1600 computer really puts you back)

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 01:01 AM

Steel Angel Kurumi has some masculine girls too. But that is more male oriented.

Really? From what I remember, all the girls in it are very girly. Unless you are talking about Karinka, but even she's not all that masculine. I remember there was this one girl who looked like a boy before she transformed into another form that was very feminine, but she wasn't in the anime much.

Venus

June 10th, 2006, 09:29 AM

Well, they do say the truth hurts. :rolleyes:
BTW, can you describe why yuri "doesnt do anything for you" Are you only thinking of the hentai side? have you even watched maria-sama ga miteru? strawberry panic? etc etc.

Um, I'm not sure what you mean by the truth hurts. If you could, please clarify that for me. I just don't get why fans are up in arms in what's "better." Are the fans really feeling so unsure of their preference that they feel the need to state that its "superior" ?
I'm not talking about hentai. I'm just not interested in seeing girls getting it on with other girls. That's what I mean when I say yuri doesn't do anything for me. As I said I don't have a problem with it and if there's a yuri anime I think looks interesting then I'll check it out. I just don't keep an eye for those kind of animes as I do with yaoi. I've seen the first volume of Kannazuki no Miko. I liked it but I admit I found the relationship between the girls rather boring. I heard it suppose to get better so I guess I'll have to wait and see. Anyway I'm more interested in the story behind Tsubasa then the girls.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 10:55 AM

Really? From what I remember, all the girls in it are very girly. Unless you are talking about Karinka, but even she's not all that masculine. I remember there was this one girl who looked like a boy before she transformed into another form that was very feminine, but she wasn't in the anime much.
I dont remember all their names as i havent seen it all yet.

And Venus...you confused me. Your not talking about hentai? Then you go to say you dont like seeing two girls getting it on, which is hentai.

and the truth hurts comment.....it was a joke about you gettign hit over the head with "yuri is better". But i feel that yuri fans are more harassed by the yaoi fans, just cause there are just too damn many of them, and they tend to be very rabid about it. *shudders at the thought of the Yaoi Paddles*. Seeing how yaoi, especially the hentai side of it, has become too big in america, while yuri has taken a backrow seat. I can't even go to the comic store without a bunch of smut staring at me from the shelves anymore...

ArcaJ

June 10th, 2006, 10:59 AM

I go with yuri since that's my natural mindset. (Take THAT Catholic church!)
Plus, where else whould I get my Strawberry Shake fix?

::HUGS:;

Arca Jeth

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 01:46 PM

and the truth hurts comment.....it was a joke about you gettign hit over the head with "yuri is better". But i feel that yuri fans are more harassed by the yaoi fans, just cause there are just too damn many of them, and they tend to be very rabid about it. *shudders at the thought of the Yaoi Paddles*. Seeing how yaoi, especially the hentai side of it, has become too big in america, while yuri has taken a backrow seat. I can't even go to the comic store without a bunch of smut staring at me from the shelves anymore...

I don't think yaoi fans harass yuri fans. I think you open the door for your own harassment when you make comments that tick yaoi fans off, which you do a lot. I have seen more fanboys bash yaoi than fangirls bash yuri. Many of the fangirls I have ran into actually like some shoujo-ai - just not the yuri hentai.
Sorry to say this, and I know I am generalizing yuri fanboys, but most of them DO like the hentai aspect of it. Not many guys are in it for the romance-fluff. And many girls aren't gonna like shoujo-ai because they like guys, so the yaoi and BL will sell. Sorry, but it is the truth. Not many girls are interested in that stuff (yes I know some are, but not nearly as many as there are for yaoi). That doesn't give them the right to bash it, and you shouldn't be so hard on them for their own preferences.

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 02:04 PM

Don't people ever get tired of these silly threads?

Lesbianism sells in the west. It's very *mainstream*. There is almost *nothing* for women, sexually, in the mainstream western media. It's all about men's desires, not women's.

So when girls find something that actually speaks to their sexual desires -- yaoi -- it's like a light goes off and all that supressed and underserved sexual desire gets concentrated into the fandom(and conventions.)

BTW, one difference I see between forums geared towards yaoi vs general anime forums is that in the yaoi forums yuri is NEVER ONCE MENTIONED, much less bashed. In fact the only time I've witness a "yaoi vs. yuri" discussion it's usually started by yuri fans to bash yaoi fans. (I'll have to take matt's word that there are yaoi fans who bash yuri fans because I have never once witnessed it myself.)

Sorry, yuri fans, yaoi is just more popular... get over it. You guys have PrimeTime, MTV, mainstream porn, movies etc. etc. to get your lesbian fix. We only got manga (and perishingly few anime).

To use an anology... the western "pipe" for delivering lesbianism to lesbianism's fans is about as big around as a football stadium, thus the flow rate(number of fans of non-mainstream media) is miniscule. They can get it everywhere else after all. The western "pipe" for delivering homoeroticism to homoeroticism's fans is about the size of a fist... thus the flow rate is phenomenal(number of fans of non-mainstream media). They *can't* get it anywhere else after all.

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 02:12 PM

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 02:16 PM

I agree with typhonblue. Most of the sex/porn entertainment is geared towards men. That's one of the reasons why I love yaoi so much. It has so many handsome guys. Most of the porn or softcore stuff I have seen shows more on the woman, and the guy is usually pretty ugly. I hate that.

Oh yes!

Attack of the vaguely humanoid were-rat, anyone? What woman in their right mind wants to watch a balding, monsterously hairy, fat-a** who looks like he's been hit in the head with a shovel nail it to a woman with the texture of a blow-up doll?

YEECH! And I don't even mind watching/reading porn with "real" men... it's just that in mainstream porn they seem to go out of their way to drag the skankiest, most repulsive man they can find on screen.

I guess it's too lay to rest all those potential homoerotic feelings. Jeese, what a peice of work is modern man. So neurotic. :P

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 02:35 PM

Carmel

June 10th, 2006, 02:58 PM

Hey DK, I just did a search at aarinfantasy on "yuri" to see if I could find any Yaoi fans bashing Yuri.

The only bashing I found was Matt saying that "all yaoi fans are completely ignorant." LOL!

He *really* makes the rounds!Yup, it's my strong belief that it's his mission in life to make his rounds to all forums that have yaoi related topics and make it clear to all yaoi fans how biased he is... that, or he has not better to do.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 04:49 PM

And many girls aren't gonna like shoujo-ai because they like guys, so the yaoi and BL will sell. Sorry, but it is the truth. Not many girls are interested in that stuff (yes I know some are, but not nearly as many as there are for yaoi). That doesn't give them the right to bash it, and you shouldn't be so hard on them for their own preferences.
So what your saying is that the only reason girls like BL is because it has guys in it. The story or anythign else has nothing to do with it. If you realyl like the 'cute relationships' and all that other stuff claimed by yaoi fans, then the gender of characters shouldn't matter.

And typhon, lesbianism is NOT popular in the US. Not at all. Mainstream porn? yes most of those girls are actual lesbians, but guys simply view it as straight girls going at it.
Hell, the show Queer as folk is popular, while the show L word is shown as porn, or smut.

And there is plenty yuri bashing out there. There is a big group out there, that is really really obsessed with yaoi, and bash yuri all the time. I dont have their website anymore though.

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 06:37 PM

So what your saying is that the only reason girls like BL is because it has guys in it. The story or anythign else has nothing to do with it. If you realyl like the 'cute relationships' and all that other stuff claimed by yaoi fans, then the gender of characters shouldn't matter.

And typhon, lesbianism is NOT popular in the US. Not at all. Mainstream porn? yes most of those girls are actual lesbians, but guys simply view it as straight girls going at it.
Hell, the show Queer as folk is popular, while the show L word is shown as porn, or smut.

And there is plenty yuri bashing out there. There is a big group out there, that is really really obsessed with yaoi, and bash yuri all the time. I dont have their website anymore though.

You are contradicting yourself there. You suggest that the only reason girls like BL is because it has guys in it(which is not true btw) and then you say gender shouldn't matter. :blink:
Lesbianism may not be all that popular, but its definetely more accepted by general public (mostly guys) than yaoi. Society doesn't make sense, you are so right there.
I didn't get the impression that L word was shown as porn or smut from the reviews i have read, liked the show btw.
And i'm pretty sure there are some yuri bashers out there, just like there are yaoi bashers and IY bashers. Must be human nature, learn to live with it. But if u must retaliate, humour is the best weapon OL. just my pov.
Oh, and just how do u know that girls in porn movies are actual lesbians? :P

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 06:47 PM

You are contradicting yourself there. You suggest that the only reason girls like BL is because it has guys in it(which is not true btw) and then you say gender shouldn't matter. :blink:
Lesbianism may not be all that popular, but its definetely more accepted by general public (mostly guys) than yaoi. Society doesn't make sense, you are so right there.
I didn't get the impression that L word was shown as porn or smut from the reviews i have read, liked the show btw.
And i'm pretty sure there are some yuri bashers out there, just like there are yaoi bashers and IY bashers. Must be human nature, learn to live with it. But if u must retaliate, humour is the best weapon OL. just my pov.
Oh, and just how do u know that girls in porn movies are actual lesbians? :P
I wasnt condradicting myself at all. Dazzlekitty said that girl wont watch shoujo-ai cause it doesnt have guys in it. But with most BL fangirls out there saying they think the romance is 'cute' and all, the gender of characters shouldn't matter.
What is IY???
and I know most strippers, porn stars, etc are actual lesbians from interviews i have seen ad heard of. Plus if you had to look at ugly dirty old men all day, you would go the other way too.

ArcaJ

June 10th, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Animematt55 And typhon, lesbianism is NOT popular in the US. Not at all. Mainstream porn? yes most of those girls are actual lesbians, but guys simply view it as straight girls going at it.
Hell, the show Queer as folk is popular, while the show L word is shown as porn, or smut.

I was going to say something to that effect (but my connection died _-_)

I started most depictions of lesbians in the media are simply for male gratification. (Imagine me trying to find positive lesbian role-models as a teen and finding that O_O)

BTW: I use the classic defenition of Yuri (what's known in the West as shoujo-ai)

So, when I found that anime and manga had an entire sub-genre devoted to relationships between girls I was overjoyed.

While yuri-themed manga may be at times, tragic, melodramatic, or just plain silly, most of the time it's much better than what's available on this side of the world (in pop-culture). As long as there are titles like MariMite, I'll be very happy.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 07:14 PM

I was going to say something to that effect (but my connection died _-_)

I started most depictions of lesbians in the media are simply for male gratification. (Imagine me trying to find positive lesbian role-models as a teen and finding that O_O)

BTW: I use the classic defenition of Yuri (what's known in the West as shoujo-ai)

So, when I found that anime and manga had an entire sub-genre devoted to relationships between girls I was overjoyed.

While yuri-themed manga may be at times, tragic, melodramatic, or just plain silly, most of the time it's much better than what's available on this side of the world (in pop-culture). As long as there are titles like MariMite, I'll be very happy.

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth
Maka Maka is also supposed to be very good too. But i havent actually read it myself yet. I am sure you have heard of lililicious, the godsend in a sea of yaoi. LoL

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 07:37 PM

AnimeMatt sez: Lesbianism isn't mainstream.

I go to a 98% male Jui-jitsu dojo.

Not a week goes by that I do not hear one of the following expressed:

a. Lesbians are so sexy and desirable.

b. Men are physically disgusting. I can't understand why women desire men.

c. I can totally understand why a woman would want to be a lesbian, men are so physically disgusting.

d. If I were a woman, I'd be a lesbian.

e. Any man who doesn't desire lesbians is a flaming ****.

f. Fags are repulsive.

These men, among other nearly all male groups I've been witness to, express their admiration for lesbians and their revulsion for gay men without concern of any of the following:

1. Being considered freakish for their desires.

2. Being labled hypocrites.

3. Being told that they are "ignorant" for liking lesbians and hating gay men.

Let me explain what it is to be mainstream.

You can walk into any group, announce your interest, and expect most people to either shrug and get on with their day or agree that it's "teh hawtest".

That's where men's appreciation for lesbianism is, AnimeMatt. It's mainstream, it's expected, it's understood... no one is going to call a man who likes lesbians a freak, a homo, or a nutcase. (They very well may call a man who *doesn't*, though. I've witnessed it numerous times.)

Now let's look at the yaoi fangirl equation. Specifically lets look at *my* experience. I'm open about what I like. I refer to it occasionally on my LiveJournal, so, in general, people know I like it. I don't feel the need to hide what I like from others, unlike some who like yaoi(which I understand completely).

What's happened to me being an out-and-out yaoi lover? I sometimes post on a conservative forum with a lot of christians (I'm fiscally conservative and against a lot of feminist rehtoric.) After people found out about me, they called me a freak, they said my husband was obviously a closet homo for liking me(?) and they said I must be some greasy lard-*** shut-in to like something so freakish and repulsive.

On the same thread these people were insulting me for my tastes a man piped up and said "I lurv lesbians."

What happened to him? A couple other men chimed in and said "yeah, me too". One person said "hey, I don't, personally". That guy was immediately labled a ***.

This was on a conservative forum frequented by CHRISTIANS. Even there the disparity is glaring. Men liking lesbians? No need even to describe in graphic detail how foul lesbian sex(or romance) is and how anyone who likes it is some sort of simian.Totally understandable, no need for comment. Women liking gay men? Pages of detailed illustrations of how nasty gay sex(or romance) is and how anyone who likes it is a sideshow attraction.

You'd think the *christians* at least would be consistant... but then again, they haven't been throughout their history either, so why would they start now? (For those who don't get what I'm saying... throughout christian history gay men were violently persecuted, lesbians were... ignored. Completely.)

That forum isn't the only mainstream one where I've been attacked for being a yaoi fangirl.

And I bet, in all the mainstream forums that I've been attacked, if they knew you, AnimeMatt, liked yuri they'd probably shrug and go on with their day. One or two might say something like "illustrated lesbianism, woah, new twist... I should check it out."

THAT is what it is like to be mainstream. And even if you say that lesbianism *itself* isn't mainstream that does NOT AFFECT YOU because, as hard as this must be for you to hear, YOU ARE NOT A LESBIAN. You are a man who *likes* lesbianism, so you get to take your place along the innumerable other men who will support you and affirm your appreciation. In public. In the mainstream.

And even if the majority of the depictions of lesbianism are intended for straight men, that means lesbians have less difficulty integrating into society then gay men. Inevitably the majority of people WILL BE STRAIGHT. Having them think of you as sexy, desirable, cool and totally understandable is a lot better then having them think of you as repulsive, revolting and incomprehensible.

Finally, I really don't get your descriptions of yaoi fangirls. I haven't yet seen yaoi fangirls GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to bash yuri. Even when I've read threads where yaoi fangirls are being *baited* by fanboys(like you), the fangirls remain relatively neutral and calm. Surprising considering the amount of censure and ostracising they face in the mainstream world.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 08:05 PM

^ That is our society. (although i do agree with B) I have been saying for a long time...all these conservatives that are against gay marriage, and "god hates ****. bash gay men all day, then go home and beat off to girl-girl porn. America is ruled by stupid pig-headed men that we the people elect. Not really much we can do.
If these guys actually knew any real lesbians, they would change their views. Most don't look a thing liek the girls they beat off to in their porn videos.
Also. about half of my social group are gay guys. I dont care, heck i didn't even know they were until they said they were.
Of course, i don't want to hear about anyone's sexual acts, be they a gay male or female, or straight.
Since Yaoi and Yuri are mainly an anime thing, yuri (specifically the shoujo-ai side) is highly descriminated against. They say it is 'too cutesy' or something like that. From some of what i have seen of Gravi, that is rather cutesy too. Same with Sukisyo. So that is just a double standard. The same thing can be said for the uke. When a female aniem character is weak, and needs help a lot or is very submissive, she is hated for that. When it is a male, he is "SO KAWAII!!1"

You cant really being mainstream into this...

Yukito Kunisaki

June 10th, 2006, 08:21 PM

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 08:21 PM

Since Yaoi and Yuri are mainly an anime thing, yuri (specifically the shoujo-ai side) is highly descriminated against. They say it is 'too cutesy' or something like that.

That's not discrimination.

"Yuri is too cutsy" is an opinion. "People who like yuri are greasy freaks" is discrimination.

From some of what i have seen of Gravi, that is rather cutesy too.

And I don't like gravitation either.

Same with Sukisyo. So that is just a double standard. The same thing can be said for the uke. When a female aniem character is weak, and needs help a lot or is very submissive, she is hated for that. When it is a male, he is "SO KAWAII!!1"

I'm not going to defend the whole "cutsy uke" thing too much because I hate the phenomenon... but, I suppose, for the girls who like it they get to see a softer side to masculinity that isn't very visible.

I prefer non-cutsy yaoi myself. Masculine guys are my thing. That's what's great about yaoi... if you don't like the cutsy shite you can find something more to your taste.

You cant really being mainstream into this...

Why not? Our fandom exists in the context of a greater social mileu. That social mileu will dictate how well yuri and yaoi are recieved by others outside of the fandom, and those new to the fandom.

But, regardless, the only *real* bashing I've encountered is anti-yaoi-fangirls. I've heard of this mythological "evil yaoi fangirl" that both you and Dazzle Kitty have encountered, but I have yet to see any evidence of her existance.

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 08:29 PM

IY=InuYasha. This place is filled with bashers >_< , but i'll live.
Of course girls say they like 'cute' relationships, do u really want to hear the exact names of the things they like??
@arkaj
Have u seen "Bad Girls" ?
[british accent] It's bloody brilliant![/british accent]
p.s. if u don't feel like taking reccomendations from IY fan, i won't blame u. ;)

edit: i second everything typhonblue said.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 08:52 PM

That's not discrimination.

"Yuri is too cutsy" is an opinion. "People who like yuri are greasy freaks" is discrimination.

And I don't like gravitation either.

I'm not going to defend the whole "cutsy uke" thing too much because I hate the phenomenon... but, I suppose, for the girls who like it they get to see a softer side to masculinity that isn't very visible.

I prefer non-cutsy yaoi myself. Masculine guys are my thing. That's what's great about yaoi... if you don't like the cutsy shite you can find something more to your taste.

Why not? Our fandom exists in the context of a greater social mileu. That social mileu will dictate how well yuri and yaoi are recieved by others outside of the fandom, and those new to the fandom.

But, regardless, the only *real* bashing I've encountered is anti-yaoi-fangirls. I've heard of this mythological "evil yaoi fangirl" that both you and Dazzle Kitty have encountered, but I have yet to see any evidence of her existance.
That fangirl does exist. She owns that yahoo group i mentioned. I am sure Dazzlekitty can provide links to her stuff for you, as i dont have them anymore.
(i do have an email from her...it is rather hilarious)

This social mileu that you speak of....anime and manga, especially yaoi, yuri, and basic hentai, are definately NOT in the mainstream. People do not try to understand it if they are outside of the social group. So it is not necessary to involve the mainstream. Especially seeing how the media often gets everything wrong about anime (they even thought Kris (from Battle Athletes was a transgender, among other stupid things)

I have not seen "Bad Girls". What is it about?

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 08:57 PM

I have not seen "Bad Girls". What is it about?
Its british tv series. main attraction is yuri theme.
girls are hot. direction is good.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 09:02 PM

Its british tv series. main attraction is yuri theme.
girls are hot. direction is good.
what kind of hot?
Feminien hot? masculine hot? lol

and typon, if you dont like 'cute' stuff. Try Maria-sama. It is very angsty.

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 09:06 PM

what kind of hot?
Feminien hot? masculine hot? lol

.
Its not 'butch' if thats what u mean.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 09:12 PM

Its not 'butch' if thats what u mean.
http://tmp.4chan.org/u/src/1149868664494.jpg

like that....totally hawt LOL. (so i like the more masculine girls.....)

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 09:20 PM

what kind of hot?
Feminien hot? masculine hot? lol

and typon, if you dont like 'cute' stuff. Try Maria-sama. It is very angsty.

I don't like yuri.

I'm sorry, I just don't.

As for yaoi, yuri and hentai not being in the mainstream... in the case of yuri and hentai there are mainstream correlates and the *concept* of those corrolates being translated into a drawing isn't that, well, crazy. In the case of yaoi... there isn't.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 09:28 PM

I don't like yuri.

I'm sorry, I just don't.

As for yaoi, yuri and hentai not being in the mainstream... in the case of yuri and hentai there are mainstream correlates and the *concept* of those corrolates being translated into a drawing isn't that, well, crazy. In the case of yaoi... there isn't.
SO you have no reason for not liking the yuri side......that is just as bad as all those idiot guy in your ju jitsu class.
You keep saying all this mainstream talk when it has nothign to do with it. You sound liek soem close-minded little girl who just refuses to try something new. It is the 'fans' like you i hate the most cause you absolutly refuse everythign except yaoi. You give double standard reasons too.
You say all this abotu yaoi not being in the mainstream. What about Queer as Folk? Queer eye for the straight guy? Those are very mainstream shows. Your arguments are flawed.

You have never even given a reason for refusing to watch yuri.
I challenge you to watch/read Maria-sama ge miteru. Read Maka-maka and other exceptional yuri manga/anime.

ShanceChance

June 10th, 2006, 09:29 PM

Yaoi fangirls are highly discriminatory. That's the primary reason that I pretty much avoid them. I haven't really run into any of the bad ones here, but oh god, they exist.
At a con I was recently at, a yaoi fangirl hit the person in charge of the shoujo-ai/yuri panels, who was also an out and happily-married (to a woman) lesbian, with a yaoi paddle and said to her "you're disgusting". When I mentioned this on one of the con's message board, the closest thing I got to sympathy was "well, I find lesbians nasty and hate them too, but that wasn't right".
Is someone going to tell me that the yaoi fangirl with the paddle wasn't a discriminating *****? That her behavior was somehow justifiable? This is how the fandom is. The sane yaoi fans are the exceptions.

People who like yaoi are seen as artists and open-minded young women who help the gay community. Meanwhile, those of us on the yuri side are stereotyped beyond belief. We're classified as 20-year-old men who live in our mothers' basements and are like "o ya lesbos ohhhh yaaaaah". We are still in a society which believes that in order for a woman to feel pleasure, a man must be present, and lesbianism is just a fun little game the girls play until the penises come around. The people on yuri/shoujo-ai message boards are labeled "20-year old men or 20-year old men pretending to be girls". However, in reality, of the yuri fandom I've met, and stats that have been taken, the fandom is almost completely 50-50 in the ratio of men-to-women, and most of us want to see two girls/women in love, not just two girsl/women in bed.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 09:33 PM

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 09:43 PM

http://tmp.4chan.org/u/src/1149868664494.jpg

like that....totally hawt LOL. (so i like the more masculine girls.....)

errr, i didn't see any pics. :huh:
anyway since u r into more masculine type u should like it. How femenine can u get in prison?

Yukito Kunisaki

June 10th, 2006, 09:45 PM

Holy hell O_o. Yea... people take this stuff WAY too seriously. If you hate yuri, why the hell go there in the first place, really? Those paddles are freaking hard too, I think kicking her out of the con would be too good for her IMO. She should be possibly sued for any major injuries placed, and permanent suspension from the con in future dates... I can't believe people take crap this far...sheesh...-___-. (Same for the gay guys, I am not sticking up for only lesbians, before I get chewed out possibly, it is overall stupid).

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 09:55 PM

I wasnt condradicting myself at all. Dazzlekitty said that girl wont watch shoujo-ai cause it doesnt have guys in it. But with most BL fangirls out there saying they think the romance is 'cute' and all, the gender of characters shouldn't matter.

I think you may be reading between the lines a bit. Many fangirls find the relationship between the guys to be cute. That's their liking of a 'cute relationship'. That's why they read it - for the guys. Not all girls will simply abandon a shoujo-ai story because it has girls. Some will, but not all. I don't. I've seen some shoujo-ai stuff.

Just curious though, did this war happen EVERYTIME this question arises between you two? (Matt and Dazzle) O.o

Because some of the stuff he says makes me mad. :P We argue on AIM a lot too. I'm actually talking to the little sh*t right now. :lol:

But, regardless, the only *real* bashing I've encountered is anti-yaoi-fangirls. I've heard of this mythological "evil yaoi fangirl" that both you and Dazzle Kitty have encountered, but I have yet to see any evidence of her existance.

Oh!!! Do I have something to show you. Just PM me and I'll give you some hilarious links. As Matt mentioned, I have the link to this girl's Yahoo group and some of her reviews on Amazon.

Yukito Kunisaki

June 10th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Lmao, wow O_o You guys argue like hell here, yet chat on AIM, that is an interesting bond you two share xD.

As for that girl, I will have to see it too, that shoulds funny :P. Ill pm you tomorrow if that is all fine with you :).

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:07 PM

SO you have no reason for not liking the yuri side......that is just as bad as all those idiot guy in your ju jitsu class.

No, it's not.

I don't like yuri. I'm not interested in lesbianism. I don't think it's disgusting, nor do I believe that people who are interested are perverted or otherwise freakish human beings. I don't also don't believe that women are disgusting and that any woman who doesn't like what I like is obviously gay(and/or depraved.)

I. Just. Don't. Like. It.

You can like it. I don't have to.

It reminds me of the time I was sexually assaulted by a woman... It makes me feel uncomfortable, no matter how "cute and lovable" you think it is. (And, yes, if a man was bothered by yaoi because it reminded him of the same thing I would understand his adversion.)

You keep saying all this mainstream talk when it has nothign to do with it. You sound liek soem close-minded little girl who just refuses to try something new. It is the 'fans' like you i hate the most cause you absolutly refuse everythign except yaoi. You give double standard reasons too.

I don't refuse anything except yaoi. I read and watch quite a bit of other types of media. And before I was exposed to yaoi I enjoyed things *other* then yaoi.

For me, yaoi fits. The end.

And while yuri makes *me* uncomfortable, I understand others like it and support them in enjoying what they like.

You say all this abotu yaoi not being in the mainstream. What about Queer as Folk? Queer eye for the straight guy? Those are very mainstream shows. Your arguments are flawed.

Let's do an experiment Matt. On monday I will find a random group of people and announce I like guy-on-guy action. You do the same except, of course, you'll say "I like girl-on-girl".

Lets see who gets the more negative "wtf?" reaction.

You have never even given a reason for refusing to watch yuri.
I challenge you to watch/read Maria-sama ge miteru. Read Maka-maka and other exceptional yuri manga/anime.

I have given you a reason. Other people have their own reasons for not liking yuri, personally. For instance, *another* thing that bothers me about yuri is that women tend to remind me of my mother. And thinking of my mother in those terms is... yuck.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 10:08 PM

about THAT girl....
She told me she was watching bubblegum crisis and someoen she didnt knwo called her a lesbian. So now she hates all anime females, and real life lesbians. She even said she hates being female and wishes she was a gay male.

Now typhon. Lets say you were sexually assulted by a guy? Would you avoid yaoi? i doubt it? No offense to you, but that is a very weak reason to me.

And girls with other girls remind you of your mom? that is also kind of weird?
Why dont guys remind you of your dad?

Also my challenge still stands.....

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 10:12 PM

about THAT girl....
She told me she was watching bubblegum crisis and someoen she didnt knwo called her a lesbian. So now she hates all anime females, and real life lesbians. She even said she hates being female and wishes she was a gay male.

She goes by Karo-chan or Karorin depending on where you see her. Here is her Yahoo group for those interested:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_yaoi_obsession/

And her Amazon reviews. Look at the older ones. She bashes stuff because it's too straight. LOL!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A29YS9QSGOKS4O/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-9558867-9362369?%5Fencoding=UTF8

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:16 PM

Now typhon. Lets say you were sexually assulted by a guy? Would you avoid yaoi? i doubt it? No offense to you, but that is a very weak reason to me.

I can't say what I would like to say to you right now. So I'm just not going to respond to this.

And girls with other girls remind you of your mom? that is also kind of weird?
Why dont guys remind you of your dad?

I don't know, it just *is*.

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 10:20 PM

I rather disagree with you Matt (as you already know from our little convo) on the sexual assault. It is rape. After all, if you say 'no', it is rape - which you DID say to me on AIM. So, if she was raped by another woman, perhaps it brings up memories of the incident? Some women who are raped by men start to despise men, so why can't it be the same? I don't think it's weak at all.

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:23 PM

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 10:25 PM

I don't despise women. Yuri just makes me feel uncomfortable. That's all.

I didn't mean to say you despise women, sorry if it came off that way. I was using an example. I can see why it would make you feel that way.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 10:26 PM

I don't despise women. Yuri just makes me feel uncomfortable. That's all.
i didnt mean to offend you, that was just my opinion....
If you were that tramatized you need to be checked out. It was one instance, and you seemed really afraid of it now. To me, you really do need help.

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:27 PM

I didn't mean to say you despise women, sorry if it came off that way. I was using an example. I can see why it would make you feel that way.

I'm also thinking... if *my* reason isn't acceptable to Matt then I don't think *any* reason would be acceptable.

Alright, girls... we *have* to like yuri, we have no option, or Matt will think we're all close-minded, ignorant and predjudiced.

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:30 PM

i didnt mean to offend you, that was just my opinion....
If you were that tramatized you need to be checked out. It was one instance, and you seemed really afraid of it now. To me, you really do need help.

I'm not that traumatized. It doesn't affect my life... I don't recoil in horror from women or lesbians. I just don't like watching/reading yuri or explicit lesbian stories.

I don't mind (as much) shoujo-ai. But my preference is yaoi. It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable. I've always felt more comfortable around men.

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 10:39 PM

@typhonblue
wow, i never heard of this sort of thing before, however your feelings towards yuri r totally justified. and as for Matt, don't mind him, he's just jealous :P

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 10:40 PM

Alright, girls... we *have* to like yuri, we have no option, or Matt will think we're all close-minded, ignorant and predjudiced.

LOL! That sums him up pretty well! :lol:

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 10:41 PM

I'm also thinking... if *my* reason isn't acceptable to Matt then I don't think *any* reason would be acceptable.

Alright, girls... we *have* to like yuri, we have no option, or Matt will think we're all close-minded, ignorant and predjudiced.
Well your usuing it to avoid the whole genre. I mean i havent been fully sexually assulted, but a lot of guys have triede to really flirt with me. But i put a stop to it. But i dont fully avoid the shounen-ai genre at all.

You havent watched any series and given a reason why that series doesnt appeal to you.
Here is an example
Sukisyo = It had a really good start. But as the supporting characters got introduced, the series really took a dive. It was fun filler and all, but the characters got extremely annoying.

See? i dont liek that series because of the characters. Yet you use one incident as an excuse to avoid a whole genre.

DazzleKitty

June 10th, 2006, 10:43 PM

Everytime this topic gets brought up, it's always this huge drawn-out argument between me, Matt, and typhonblue. It's hilarious!

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 10:44 PM

Well your usuing it to avoid the whole genre. I mean i havent been fully sexually assulted, but a lot of guys have triede to really flirt with me. But i put a stop to it. But i dont fully avoid the shounen-ai genre at all.

I don't avoid shoujo-ai. I just don't actively seek it out.

Flirting != sexual assault. Did they force their hands down your pants or their tongue down your throat?

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 10:50 PM

I don't avoid shoujo-ai. I just don't actively seek it out.

Flirting != sexual assault. Did they force their hands down your pants or their tongue down your throat?
no, i put a stop to it before they could get within 2 feet of me. If they did try anything, they would regret it.

So dont go seek it out. Just go get soem maria-sama, and maka maka.
www.lililicious.net
they have direct download, BT, and IRC. So you should be able to easily get it without "seeking it out"

typhonblue

June 10th, 2006, 11:00 PM

@typhonblue
wow, i never heard of this sort of thing before, however your feelings towards yuri r totally justified. and as for Matt, don't mind him, he's just jealous :P

My mom had the same thing happen to her. She was assaulted in her dorm room by a woman who would not take "no" for an answer.

I don't know if we're both unlucky or if it's more common then people think. But what really got to me was the fact that she didn't think it was "a big deal" because it was just two girls. :(

LostCause

June 10th, 2006, 11:09 PM

My mom had the same thing happen to her. She was assaulted in her dorm room by a woman who would not take "no" for an answer.

I don't know if we're both unlucky or if it's more common then people think. But what really got to me was the fact that she didn't think it was "a big deal" because it was just two girls. :(
I think the real problem here that this sort of thing wouldn't be taken serious by authorities either.

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 11:18 PM

My mom had the same thing happen to her. She was assaulted in her dorm room by a woman who would not take "no" for an answer.

I don't know if we're both unlucky or if it's more common then people think. But what really got to me was the fact that she didn't think it was "a big deal" because it was just two girls. :(
interesting....well college girls are very likely to get raped you know? But i just dont know how common girl assult is.
I knwo it isnt nearly as common.
But seriously....you gotta give more shoujo-ai a try. If i can try shonen-ai, you can try shoujo-ai...

Animematt55

June 10th, 2006, 11:43 PM

She goes by Karo-chan or Karorin depending on where you see her. Here is her Yahoo group for those interested:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_yaoi_obsession/

And her Amazon reviews. Look at the older ones. She bashes stuff because it's too straight. LOL!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A29YS9QSGOKS4O/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-9558867-9362369?%5Fencoding=UTF8
DANG IT. the b*tch completely banned me.
She even goes as far to say "YURI IS NOT ACCEPTED HERE".

She has a cult following too. I wouldnt be surprised if one of her cronies are the ones that assulted the yuri booth moderator.

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM

Even though yuri/shoujo ai is not my cup of tea, I was quite startled to find a decent amount (Kannazuki no Miko, Noir, Marimette, Yamibou, Strawberry Panic and Oniisama E) in my collection. :D I've tried them all, and... the yuri genre and I just don't go along well together, except for a few series.

I thought Kannazuki no Miko was bad tripe, but Oniisama E? I am impressed. <3

I'm a big supporter of the yaoi genre, even if I think some works are absolute rubbish. What makes the yaoi genre so different from the usual het? (Same goes for yuri?) Whatever it is, it definitely isn't seeing guys weeping and crying and slitting his wrists for 20+ chapters if he got dumped, nor squealing like a hysterical schoolgirl. :D Shounen Jump series garnered the biggest yaoi fanbases, and I could see why.

... Or maybe it's just the thought of Tsuzuki from Yami no Matsuei that just unsettles me.

Heck, even Amane-sempai is more manly than Tsuzuki. :x

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 10:42 AM

SO lockheart...WHY isnt yuri your cup of tea? The only difference it is from yaoi is that it has two female instead of two males.

typhonblue

June 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM

SO lockheart...WHY isnt yuri your cup of tea? The only difference it is from yaoi is that it has two female instead of two males.

Exactly right.

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 11:25 AM

SO lockheart...WHY isnt yuri your cup of tea?

It's just not my thing. :) I don't hate it or bash it, it's totally cool that males and some females adore the genre, it just doesn't strike my fancy. I could see myself liking some pairings (BeatrixxGarnet from FF9 and AmanexHikari from SP) but you ask me what I'd prefer to read on a bus on the way to campus, I'd prefer yaoi. :)

The only difference it is from yaoi is that it has two female instead of two males.

O__O

As a 100% straight female, it's natural that I find guys appealing. Usually, when I'm reading shoujo, I'll usually pay more attention to the guys (unless they're total ****heads) and if the girl grates my nerves, I'll just ignore her completely (don't we all wish girls would be like Yankumi). When, in a yaoi-themed manga, the romance of, not one, but two guys are the focus, then that's where it becomes interesting: the equalness, the power struggle, the fact that you are able to relate to either, and other elements. :P But anyway...

If Shizuru was a guy, would the fanboys still worship her? Would her grand title as Almighty Pwning Lesbian degrade as you know, That Creepy Manthing? Would the fangirls' radars bleep?

If Chikane was a guy and Souma a girl, would the hate for Souma lessen?

If the Strawberry Panic cast were all males, would the yuri fandom drop it? (well...)

I mean, there's a reason why the two are split as two different categories.

(You could probably find this article interesting btw: http://www.tcj.com/269/e_yaoi.html)

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 11:43 AM

It's just not my thing. :) I don't hate it or bash it, it's totally cool that males and some females adore the genre, it just doesn't strike my fancy. I could see myself liking some pairings (BeatrixxGarnet from FF9 and AmanexHikari from SP) but you ask me what I'd prefer to read on a bus on the way to campus, I'd prefer yaoi. :)

O__O

As a 100% straight female, it's natural that I find guys appealing. Usually, when I'm reading shoujo, I'll usually pay more attention to the guys (unless they're total ****heads) and if the girl grates my nerves, I'll just ignore her completely (don't we all wish girls would be like Yankumi). When, in a yaoi-themed manga, the romance of, not one, but two guys are the focus, then that's where it becomes interesting: the equalness, the power struggle, the fact that you are able to relate to either, and other elements. :P But anyway...

If Shizuru was a guy, would the fanboys still worship her? Would her grand title as Almighty Pwning Lesbian degrade as you know, That Creepy Manthing? Would the fangirls' radars bleep?

If Chikane was a guy and Souma a girl, would the hate for Souma lessen?

If the Strawberry Panic cast were all males, would the yuri fandom drop it? (well...)

I mean, there's a reason why the two are split as two different categories.

(You could probably find this article interesting btw: http://www.tcj.com/269/e_yaoi.html)
Sorry but i dont do Slash stuff....
And Shizuru to me is already "That creepy Class president" (but i do like her character). But i dont know who Chikane and Souma are.....
If Strawberry panic were all male, then it would just be another yaoi show. So yes there would be no yuri in it.

It is always "It just isnt my thing" That isnt a reason, it is a half assed excuse. I am so sick of all this yaoi crap. I tell ya, the manga i have read i couldnt even finish. It is total smut. Romance? Cute relationships? gimme a break. It is all about rape, and dominance. There is no equality. Your just dilierious.
You complain about the girls in shoujo?? What is wrong with them? They are too whiny? get in the way of soem of your slash? Well news flash, they are simple a female uke. It is another one of the yaoi double standards.

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 11:56 AM

Sorry but i dont do Slash stuff....

And yet, when I say the same thing, you think it's magically a 'half assed excuse?'

If Strawberry panic were all male, then it would just be another yaoi show. So yes there would be no yuri in it.

Bingo! Now, let's take this to the next level: if the only difference between yaoi and yuri are the genders, then as a yaoi show, who is gonna vote for it? The girls? Or the guys? :)

It is always "It just isnt my thing" That isnt a reason, it is a half assed excuse. I am so sick of all this yaoi crap.

Well, now, what a change from all your other posts. :) If you're so sick of all this 'yaoi crap', then why force yourself to suffer through images of Kakashi's manmeat ramming it into Iruka's pooper? (tm)

I tell ya, the manga i have read i couldnt even finish. It is total smut. Romance? Cute relationships? gimme a break. It is all about rape, and dominance. There is no equality. Your just dilierious.

It pays to read. :)

Flashback! : I'm a big supporter of the yaoi genre, even if I think some works are absolute rubbish.

The description up there can accurately summarized the shoujo works I've read, you know? Which brings me to...

You complain about the girls in shoujo?? What is wrong with them? They are too whiny?

Why yes, SOME of them are whiny! I hoped they'd improve like Youko of Twelve Kingdoms or Yankumi from Gokusen, who's kickass anyway, but alas, it seems we are meant to be content with heroines who spend 40 volumes angsting when a decision made in five minutes could solve everything. ;)

get in the way of soem of your slash?

No, I'm a supporter of threesomes too.

Well news flash, they are simple a female uke. It is another one of the yaoi double standards.

I'll concede - if you could tell me where and when did I say I enjoy reading about guys who act like girls. Oh, here's what I said:

Flashback #2! : Whatever it is, it definitely isn't seeing guys weeping and crying and slitting his wrists for 20+ chapters if he got dumped, nor squealing like a hysterical schoolgirl.

Which translates to: I don't like it. :naughty:

typhonblue

June 11th, 2006, 12:08 PM

Animematt, a lot of women aren't *attracted* to other women. That's why they aren't as interested in yuri. In order for them to be as interested in yuri, they would have to be attracted to women.

You're asking people to change what they're attracted to. Why don't you do the same? All those flirtatious guys... why not go and have some fun with them, after all the only thing seperating them from girls is... a little flap of skin. (Since you think yaoi is really about women (because of the "weepy uke"), obviously possessing a penis isn't a deciding factor for gender for you.)

DazzleKitty

June 11th, 2006, 12:11 PM

DANG IT. the b*tch completely banned me.
She even goes as far to say "YURI IS NOT ACCEPTED HERE".

She has a cult following too. I wouldnt be surprised if one of her cronies are the ones that assulted the yuri booth moderator.

I'm actually thinking about joining her cult just to tick you off. I think that would be hilarious. You'd be the first person I'd go after.

SO lockheart...WHY isnt yuri your cup of tea? The only difference it is from yaoi is that it has two female instead of two males.

Okay, so why don't you like yaoi? I just not be your cup of tea either. You say most of it is rape or dominance, so that isn't your cup of tea. I am not gonna get into some philosophical argument on why Matt doesn't like rape. Because I am sure you have YOUR reasons, like fangirls have THEIR reasons for not liking yuri.
You bash yaoi and it's fans everytime you get, claiming they are all hypcritical morons. Yet, if a girl says something simple like "I have nothing against it, it's just not my cup of tea", then you get all worked up. If it's okay for us to accept your dislike of yaoi because you generalize it all being rape, then I think it's okay for fangirls to have their own what you call 'stupid' excuses for not liking it, moron.

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 12:12 PM

Yet, you still havent given a reason why yaoi is so much beter than yuri, just simply "it isnt my thing"

And these female characters that you think are so whiny. They don't need to improve. Care to give example's of these "whiny girls that are angsty for 40 episodes"

See? the difference for me is that i have actually tried the shonen-ai genre. I have taken peoples suggestions (they have to be more than OMG THIS IS SO kAWAII). Most of it though has turned out to be nothing more than smut.

And that site. I still dont get it. So two guys cant get each other pregnant or soemthing liek that. Well why not two girls? Women know what women want.

anyways...what yuri shows have you seen anyways?

Dazzle, i dont liek rape....that is the reason for hating rape, because it is rape.
But "i have nothign against it" excuse isnt a reason. It is just avoiding it. It is like not stopping discrimination or soemthing similar because you don't have an opinion of it. (which this country is very bad with)

Typhon. you do NOT need to be attracted to women to like yuri. Is that your reason? What about all the other anime with female characters? Well you must have to be attracted to females to like them....Not is a rather ignorant comment on your part.
And why would i let some obese fat **** get near me?

typhonblue

June 11th, 2006, 12:24 PM

AnimeMatt, projection much? I haven't seen any other yaoi fans say that yaoi is *better* then yuri, just that we _like it more_. YOU say that yuri is better then yaoi.

As for the shonen-ai genre being nothing more then smut... WTF? I have a few shonen-ai titles, for instance "Doust Thou Know" and the most the two guys did was a closed mouth kiss. Is that smut?

And as for rape? I have quite a number of yaoi titles that do not feature rape. Embracing Love, for instance, which deals with a very respectful relationship between two men that has nothing to do with dominance and submission.

You make rediculous excuses as to why you dislike shonen-ai and yaoi... "it's just smut"... knowing full well that that's a bunch of bull-hockey. Shonen-ai isn't smut, it's, at most, light romance, otherwise it WOULDN'T BE LABELED SHONEN-AI. You also make rediculous excuses as to why you dislike yaoi... "It's just rape/dominance"... but there are many, *many*, yaoi titles that do not present abusive, dominance based relationships.

(It reminds me of people who are against porn because of "beastiality, pedophilia, necorphilia, non-consensual sex, BDS&M etc." Well, that's not the *entirity* of porn. You can make an argument against *anything* using only the negative aspects of it, even motherhood for c-sake!)

You just don't like shonen-ai and yaoi because YOU'RE NOT ATTRACTED TO MEN. And that's fine, it's your perogative to be attracted to whatever you want. Just like it's yaoi fan girl's perogative to be ATTRACTED TO MEN and thus prefer yaoi over yuri. Not to think that yuri(and lesbians) are preverted and disgusting, just to have a completely PERSONAL preferance for yaoi.

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 12:25 PM

Yet, you still havent given a reason why yaoi is so much beter than yuri, just simply "it isnt my thing"

What the Topic Is About : "which do you like more yaoi or yuri" -- which means : Which genre do I like more? Well, take a wild guess. (http://www.dailymanga.org/series/haruwodaiteita.jpg) :naughty:

And these female characters that you think are so whiny. They don't need to improve. Care to give example's of these "whiny girls that are angsty for 40 episodes"

Well, if you think there's nothing wrong with them, then good for you! (translate: I most certainly will not humor you, good lad. ;) )

See? the difference for me is that i have actually tried the shonen-ai genre.I have taken peoples suggestions (they have to be more than OMG THIS IS SO kAWAII). Most of it though has turned out to be nothing more than smut.

Umm... *tosses a cookie?* I think yaoi fans would probably jump at you for declaring them 'smut' manga as the deciding factor for All That Is Yaoi, so I'll just stay right here and poke you with a stick or something. ^_^

And that site. I still dont get it. So two guys cant get each other pregnant or soemthing liek that.[*You have amusingly misinterpreted the whole article, ah, well, whatever* Well why not two girls? Women know what women want.

Okay. Newsflash: You're not a woman. ;)

anyways...what yuri shows have you seen anyways?

Finally, something decent. ;)

Reposted just because I'm strangely amused: "I was quite startled to find a decent amount (Kannazuki no Miko, Noir, Marimette, Yamibou, Strawberry Panic and Oniisama E) in my collection. I've tried them all, and... the yuri genre and I just don't go along well together, except for a few series. I thought Kannazuki no Miko was bad tripe, but Oniisama E? I am impressed. <3"

typhonblue

June 11th, 2006, 12:27 PM

Typhon. you do NOT need to be attracted to women to like yuri. Is that your reason? What about all the other anime with female characters? Well you must have to be attracted to females to like them....Not is a rather ignorant comment on your part.
And why would i let some obese fat **** get near me?

I *do* have to be attracted to women to seek out sexual and romantic material featuring *only* women.

I can think a female character is kick-*** (and often do), I can want her as a friend, I can admire her positive characteristics without being attracted to her but to want to see her kiss, fondle and/or schtup another female character means I have to, at some level, find women desirable.

I'm not sure where you're comeing from with the "obese fat ****" comment...? Are you talking about Rosanne Bar? Rosie O'donnel? Andrea Dworkin?

Sushikins

June 11th, 2006, 12:29 PM

Reposted just because I'm strangely amused: "I was quite startled to find a decent amount (Kannazuki no Miko, Noir, Marimette, Yamibou, Strawberry Panic and Oniisama E) in my collection. I've tried them all, and... the yuri genre and I just don't go along well together, except for a few series. I thought Kannazuki no Miko was bad tripe, but Oniisama E? I am impressed. <3"
What did you think of MariMite? Shoujo-ai aside, I thought it was a very good series.

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 12:31 PM

^ yet you havent given any reasons why yu dislike the series. What was wrong with Marimite? That is one of my favorite all time series (and the only yuri title in my top 5 unless you count I MY ME...)

DazzleKitty

June 11th, 2006, 12:31 PM

Yet, you still havent given a reason why yaoi is so much beter than yuri, just simply "it isnt my thing"

Your the one trying to war out which is better. Neither is better. She likes yaoi more, you like yuri more. The reasons you think yuri is superior is your opinion alone. How come your reasons are more valid than why someone likes yaoi more?

And these female characters that you think are so whiny. They don't need to improve. Care to give example's of these "whiny girls that are angsty for 40 episodes"
See? the difference for me is that i have actually tried the shonen-ai genre. I have taken peoples suggestions (they have to be more than OMG THIS IS SO kAWAII). Most of it though has turned out to be nothing more than smut.

Miaka from Fushigi Yugi fits that. Miki from Marmalade Boy is very whiny. Usagi from Sailor Moon is whiny. Mayura from Detective Loki is the type of girl I loathe. Now, I know there are strong girls to balance them out. I have a preference for male characters. Why? I am attracted to males. I bet if you were a girl, you'd understand how we get our kicks out of yaoi. After all, you don't have to be attracted to guys to like shounen-ai, right? So, you said your tried some of them. You didn't like them. So, it's okay for you to dislike them, but not for a girl who has tried yuri or shoujo-ai to dislike it?

Gravitation isnt' smut, Sukisho isn't smut, Mirage of Blaze isn't smut, nor is Yami no Matsuei. I think you are looking for BL manga in the wrong places. Why don't you look for a light shounen-ai story? Even if you did like it, you'd be too stubborn to admit it.

And that site. I still dont get it. So two guys cant get each other pregnant or soemthing liek that. Well why not two girls? Women know what women want.

I don't know where the pregnancy thing came in. I have seen plenty of MPREG fics, by the way. Women know what women like, but NOT ALL WOMEN ARE ATTRACTED TO WOMEN, IDIOT. Okay, so since you are a guy and you know what men like, why don't you go pleasure all your gay friends?

And why would i let some obese fat **** get near me?

Ah, I see now! It's all clear! It's okay for you to steer clear from gay men, but it's bad for a girl not to want to try lesbianism. That's so awesome!

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 12:34 PM

What did you think of MariMite? Shoujo-ai aside, I thought it was a very good series.

I've only managed to watch the first nine episodes of the first season, due to lack of time, but I must say, the series just earns my fascination (albeit temporarily, since I tend to get distracted) with the great characterization of the girls - I've always wanted a series where they'd treat females as females, rather than mindless fanservice, so I was pleasantly surprised. Heck, the plot may not be Naruto, but like I said, the winning factor for me is the characterization, and it delivers. <3 Cheers for Sei because she is win. ;) Another factor is probably because I wasn't as tolerant of yuri/shoujo ai as I am today, so I guess I really appreciate that the shoujo ai was there, yet, not so in your face, that it doesn't hinder your enjoyment... yeah.

(Sorry, I tend to ramble incoherently when I'm fondly thinking back of great series. *sheepish grin*)

Edit: Most of it though has turned out to be nothing more than smut.

How is that a bad thing again? :naughty:

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 12:42 PM

I've only managed to watch the first nine episodes of the first season, due to lack of time, but I must say, the series just earns my fascination (albeit temporarily, since I tend to get distracted) with the great characterization of the girls - I've always wanted a series where they'd treat females as females, rather than mindless fanservice, so I was pleasantly surprised. Heck, the plot may not be Naruto, but like I said, the winning factor for me is the characterization, and it delivers. <3 Cheers for Sei because she is win. ;)

(Sorry, I tend to ramble incoherently when I'm fondly thinking back of great series. *sheepish grin*)
ther you go. Was that so hard?
The reason i didnt liek sukisyo was because of all the supporting characters (minus their "mom") I mean the series started off really good, and had an interesting story and all.
Loveless, really cool story, and i love the cat ears (HANDLE BARS!) I did think a lot of the supporting cast were rather ugly though (Kio, and Ritsuka's big brother) It was also really nice seeing a committed yuri couple in it (yeah yamato and kira!)
I have not seen Gravi yet though. I have heard both good and bad things about it.

And Marimite has the best DVD extras ever

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 12:51 PM

ther you go. Was that so hard?

That I tolerate yuri? Not really, since I've already spelt it out from my very first post! ;) (Btw: tolerate =/= love) ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 12:59 PM

That I tolerate yuri? Not really, since I've already spelt it out from my very first post! ;) (Btw: tolerate =/= love) ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
I mean giving an actual review of a series instead of just shrugging it off.

Lockheart

June 11th, 2006, 01:07 PM

I mean giving an actual review of a series instead of just shrugging it off.

Dear lad, the novelty has worn off, though I still think you're a chipmunk, but it really pays to read earlier posts. :) I did say I don't mind some exceptions, but overall, I prefer the yaoi genre more than the yuri genre, and if we're going by circles again, I shall just be content to poke you while you flail anyway, or even better, drown you in the works of shota porn. <3

It's obvious you have a dislike for the yaoi genre, no matter how much you try to cover it up. ;) If you don't like it, since it's all about the flowery and sparkly girly!boys and for some unknown reason, smut for you, you don't have to force yourself to watch it just because you obviously needed a legitimate reason to pimp yuri to the yaoi fanbase (how that works, I have no idea.) I'm sure some rabid fans have this fixed idea that yaoi is meant for girls and yuri is for boys and therefore THOU SHALT NOT CROSS THE LINE, but right now, you're pissing off quite a number of people with your contradictory and amusing posts. There is no need to bash yaoi in order to promote yuri. :naughty:

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 01:20 PM

typhonblue

June 11th, 2006, 01:24 PM

Well i just started downloading Gravi. SO i will have my review of the first few episodes in the next few days.
And you seem to be one of those people that think yuri is just for guys, and yaoi for girls.

Well... now that you're exposing yourself to yaoi, I'm sure you'll soon turn into a rabid yaoi fan-boy who just can't get enough and thinks yaoi is superior to yuri.

Doesn't that make sense? It's what you seem to think, that if us yaoi fangirls are just exposed to enough yuri we'll stop prefering yaoi to yuri and suddenly simply adore yuri far and above yaoi. (Despite the fact that many of us *have* been exposed to yuri, or yuri-ish things, and haven't "turned to the dark side.")

dunno001

June 11th, 2006, 08:13 PM

And you seem to be one of those people that think yuri is just for guys, and yaoi for girls.

Well, I can tell you that I'm proof that's not true. I'm a guy with a strong yaoi preference. I do like some shows like Oniisama E, but my liking yuri shows is more the exception than the rule. Why? Because I'm not interested in women, and that's what others have said also. There is NOTHING in this world that is universally liked, yet your posts are trying to make yuri out to be universally liked, and can't understand why it's not. I actually have something I call that: straight-guy syndrome. Yes, there are women out there who like yuri. However, not all of them do, nor would it be expected to, as a majority of women prefer to look at guys. So why not go for twice the package (yaoi)?

I'm not going to claim that all yaoi fans are god(desse)s, as there are some annoying ones. But, my experiences are that there are fewer annoying yaoi fans than yuri fans. And the annoying yuri fans? Straight guys who love lesbianism, but can't understand why women would then like 2 guys in exchange, just because it's not what they're interested in.

So reasons can be as simple as it not being someone's cup of tea. However, someone saying that it reminds them of being assaulted is NOT up for debate. Each person responds to events differently, and as much as it's not a pleasant thing to say, you don't know what your reaction will be until it actually happens to you. You may know how you want to react, but that's not necessarily what you'll do if the situation actuall arises. To say that reason for someone's dislike of something is "weak" is completely intolerant of the tragedy that occured to the other person.

Animematt55

June 11th, 2006, 08:56 PM

Yukito Kunisaki

June 11th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Well... now that you're exposing yourself to yaoi, I'm sure you'll soon turn into a rabid yaoi fan-boy who just can't get enough and thinks yaoi is superior to yuri.

Doesn't that make sense? It's what you seem to think, that if us yaoi fangirls are just exposed to enough yuri we'll stop prefering yaoi to yuri and suddenly simply adore yuri far and above yaoi. (Despite the fact that many of us *have* been exposed to yuri, or yuri-ish things, and haven't "turned to the dark side.")

I am a guy, and I have seen 11 episodes of Gravi so far, and still going. Its ok, but the thing that rocks about it is the music...I LOVE Jrock, and the style of music in this series... really nice. Still however, I am not a Yaoi fan. This I will say, is the only series I can say I enjoy or have...however, I always heard it was funny too, but I have yet to even laugh O.o... Niddle Grasper's Sleepless Beauty and Bad Luck's Rage BEat...pure fun =D

typhonblue

June 12th, 2006, 12:01 AM

GAH! *pulls hair out*

I don't avoid *anything* that has girls in it. I just don't seek out or particularly enjoy depictions of relationships between girls. Now if it's well done and I sympathize with the characters I *can* appreciate the love, although I'd prefer it not to get all "boom-chicka-boom" on me.

ZoharContact

June 12th, 2006, 08:08 AM

i didnt mean to offend you, that was just my opinion....
If you were that tramatized you need to be checked out. It was one instance, and you seemed really afraid of it now. To me, you really do need help.
Matt, have you ever heard of the words, "I'm sorry"? For cripes...

While we've already seen that there are people who bash yuri because they view it as opposition to their fandom, I don't really see anybody like that here. The person you tend to argue with the most, DazzleKitty, has (if I'm correct) watched and mentioned her approval of several yuri titles.

It's like you won't be satisfied unless everyone likes Yuri and nothing else.
There is no need to bash yaoi in order to promote yuri.I agree. ^_^

shiriko

June 12th, 2006, 01:24 PM

I guess maybe I'm just biased, being you know... gay and all. But Yaoi and Yuri are both the extreme's, I've noticed. There are extremely perverted Yaoi's and Yuri's, and I've also seen romantic and sweet Yaoi's and Yuri's. Basically, the only real difference between Yaoi and Yuri is the body parts used in sex scenes. o.O That's really about it.

rosa_chinensis

June 12th, 2006, 01:42 PM

what kind of hot?
Feminien hot? masculine hot? lol

There's a range-- some of the characters have more of a tough/butch look, others have more of a feminine look, and yet others have more of an androgynous look (minus the heavy makeup they had to wear so they wouldn't look washed-out against the blah wall color).
I think Bad Girls is a great show. :) My favorite part is the HelenxNikki love story that spans seasons 1-3.

Also, if you're looking to try a yuri manga, don't try Maka-Maka first-- it has its good points, but the beginning focuses more on sex, which might be a turn-off if you're mainly looking for story/characterization. When I first started reading Maka-Maka, it wasn't my cup of tea at all, but it's been growing on me. There are chapters I like and chapters I don't. My main complaint is that it seems to put forth such a negative perspective on sex with men and on men in general (and this manga is written by a man, not a woman).

For the person who was looking for yuri with more butchy characters, here are some Lililicious projects with butchy characters:
"Greenhouse Dancing Club" by Fujita Takumi
Indigo Blue by Yamaji Ebine
"Hands Off My Girl" by Minami Q-ta
"Wedding Bells," from Mist magazine
Pieta by Haruno Nanae
"color color" by Nananan Kiriko
Hana no Asuka-gumi by Takaguchi Satosumi
Oniisama e by Ikeda Riyoko
Rose of Versailles by Ikeda Riyoko

Also, Fujii Mihona's Himitsu no Hanazono has a very butchy lead. It's been scanlated by Starry Heaven.

In terms of anime, Oniisama e and Strawberry Panic both have a couple butchy characters.

In terms of bashing yuri, I've had pretty postive experiences when coming out to BL and het fans in the past, both in terms of liking yuri and in terms of having a girlfriend. They've all been very polite about it. I've heard horror stories too, but sadly, discrimination is everywhere.

An interesting tidbit: back in the days when BL was Takemiya Keiko-esque "old school" stuff, women used BL magazines to write "women seeking women" ads and the like.
Another interesting tidbit: a good number of yuri mangaka, particularly ones that drew/draw for Yuri Hime, also drew/draw BL. And back when Yuri Hime was still Yuri Shimai, a lot of the ads were for BL magazines from the same company. I think many of them still are, though there are also ads for yuri games and stuff.
BL and yuri aren't just connected by the fact that they both deal with same-sex relationships (and that some gay men pop up in yuri and vice versa)-- the connection runs much deeper. That's not to say there aren't massive differences between them, or that they're by any means the same-- just that they're connected.

In terms of my own preference, I'll just say that I like my favorite BL work ("Kiss Scandal"; although I also like some American queer male comics, I don't think they fall into most people's definition of BL) and my favorite yuri works (too many to list here ^^) equally and get equally sick of both BL I don't particularly like and yuri I don't particularly like.

Both bodies of work have their strengths and weaknesses, we all like what we like, love and peace (a little Trigun humor there... ^^)?

DazzleKitty

June 12th, 2006, 02:54 PM

I still dont agree with the reason of not liking something just because it has a gender you don't like in it. It makes it sound like your only looking to get sexual gratification.
Its not like i avoid a genre just because it has guys in it.

You are putting words in people's mouth. No one said they are avoiding anything because it has women. Girls don't actively seek out yuri like you do because they aren't into girls.
If it's okay for you to avoid all yaoi because you base all of them as having rape and dominance from the couple series you have seen, then why is not okay for a girl not to seek it out because she isn't into women? I don't see how your reasons give you any more excuse.
God, Matt. How much more annoying can you get?! I haven't seen anyone on this forum or any other yaoi forums say that yaoi is better and go parading around exclaiming it. You are the moron who is walking around screaming that yuri is better, and those who aren't obssessed with it like you are closed-minded idiots. You are like all of those annoying yuri fanboys I meet on other forums. They dont' understand why girls like yaoi. They think everyone should like yuri. Well hello! We're girls. Most of them aren't going to be attracted to it. All you do is repeat yourself, and in turn I have to repeat myself. I cannot make it any clearer. If you don't see how hypocritical you are now, you never will. It's impossible to be rational with you.
The person you tend to argue with the most, DazzleKitty, has (if I'm correct) watched and mentioned her approval of several yuri titles.

Yeah, I've seen a few of them. :P

Matsu'o Tsurayaba

June 12th, 2006, 04:17 PM

I would vouch for Yuri,young girls need to touch and kiss each other more often.

typhonblue

June 12th, 2006, 05:20 PM

I would vouch for Yuri,young girls need to touch and kiss each other more often.

Actually, I think it's the young boys who are more deficient in that activity.

typhonblue

June 12th, 2006, 07:06 PM

I hope your gf leaves you for another woman.
You know, just for the irony of it. >_<

Aww... that's not very nice.

:(

Tsukiko

June 12th, 2006, 10:40 PM

I would vouch for Yuri,young girls need to touch and kiss each other more often.

I agree, and I think boys should touch and kiss more often too. :naughty:

LeslieSama

June 14th, 2006, 07:26 AM

Yuri is sweet, but yaoi is bittersweet! Everybody loves the refined Dark chocolate more! (not really lol its too bitter XD) You should make a poll to see the real outcome of this crazy deathmatch!! XD

I hope your gf leaves you for another woman.
You know, just for the irony of it. >_<

omg wtf. O_O

Yukito Kunisaki

June 14th, 2006, 07:58 AM

Yuri is sweet, but yaoi is bittersweet! Everybody loves the refined Dark chocolate more! (not really lol its too bitter XD) You should make a poll to see the real outcome of this crazy deathmatch!! XD

omg wtf. O_O

Course yaoi would win. It was debated before. There are more Yaoi Fangirls/boys here than Yuri fans.Theres like...what? 5 of us Yuri fans? O.o... everyone other 10 topics is a topic for Yuri.

Animematt55

June 14th, 2006, 02:37 PM

Course yaoi would win. It was debated before. There are more Yaoi Fangirls/boys here than Yuri fans.Theres like...what? 5 of us Yuri fans? O.o... everyone other 10 topics is a topic for Yuri.
Yeah, it's going to be funny once all those yaoi boys get hemoroids.

typhonblue

June 14th, 2006, 09:05 PM

Yeah, it's going to be funny once all those yaoi boys get hemoroids.

WTF?

Homophobic much?

How about the reverse:

Yeah, it's going to be funny once all those yuri girls get snatch-and-mouth disease.

DazzleKitty

June 14th, 2006, 09:12 PM

typhonblue

June 14th, 2006, 09:17 PM

What do the yuri girls do when they get their periods? Who's want to touch their pussycats, much less give them oral?

If they DO do it, it must look like a murder scene then they are done....or like they've been eating strawberry jelly. Yum!

Red Wings: An All New Yuri Romance(Now with chunks!)

LostCause

June 15th, 2006, 01:34 AM

^Oh god, now i can never see same sex relationships in the same light.

But thats not the reason for the post.
Now, it is probably fairly obvious but i was wondering; in yaoi and yuri, all things being equal, like great story, art etc. is sexual orientation of a viewer is what makes the difference and influences his/hers choice.
Is it like a pinch of salt that makes already great dish into a culinary delight? b/c without it u might still enjoy the dish but something will be lacking?
So far i have no reason to believe otherwise, but to prove or disprove this we will need some research.
So the question is: are there straight girls who prefer yuri to yaoi, who have given both a chance, and are strong in their preference of yuri? And obviosly, the reverse, are there straight males who will chose yaoi, given the choice? In case of a person being bisexual, he should go with the dominant side of his sexuality, b/c i doubt anybody is really 50/50, either one or the other side is slightly dominant.
If indeed there are straight girls/guys who prefer yuri/yaoi respectively, then we can conclude that person's sexuality is not the key factor in their veiwing habits.
Otherwise we will have to say that it is, hopefully putting to rest claims of superiority, accusations of close mindedness and whatnot.

rosa_chinensis

June 15th, 2006, 04:42 AM

What do the yuri girls do when they get their periods? Who's want to touch their pussycats, much less give them oral?

What the heck? What is this, the dark ages? "Go into the period hut, woman, you're unclean!"

It isn't unheard of for women of whatever orientation to have sex during their period. If you want to have oral sex, just use a tampon and dental dam, or whatever works for you. There's no need to classify yourself as "untouchable" when it's easily taken care of.

ZoharContact

June 15th, 2006, 10:01 AM

Have we been tossed into the lake of fire, yet? I'm seeing a lot of flames...

Anyway, cutting out various offensive remarks about hemorrhoids and red wings would be very kind of you.If indeed there are straight girls/guys who prefer yuri/yaoi respectively, then we can conclude that person's sexuality is not the key factor in their veiwing habits.I think I know what your hypothesis would be, and I basically agree. Matt's orientation should be obvious, and everyone else who declared theirs is in line with paradigm. (I think)

I know a few girls who are bisexual and prefer yuri, but they haven't really tried yaoi of any type. ...You might be able to include me with them, but I definitely incline to the homosexual side of the spectrum.

Animematt55

June 15th, 2006, 02:05 PM

WTF?

Homophobic much?

How about the reverse:

Yeah, it's going to be funny once all those yuri girls get snatch-and-mouth disease.
Its a joke from an old aniem called Momorio girls. There is a girl with 'roids, and another girl obsessed with yaoi doujjinshi

Kirika

June 18th, 2006, 01:00 PM

i like both so much and it depends of my mood what i would watch, but for me no genre is superior to the other they just have their good and bad points and depends of your mood or tastes which one you like more ^_^

se7enzgirl

June 21st, 2006, 06:33 AM

watched both and i kinda prefer yuri.
cos in yaoi the commonly seen rough sex doesnt really look too appealing.
and itz kinda unfair in the number of sources for yuri and yaoi..itz like yaoi takes up 80% of all yuri-yaoi fansites.. :(
but yaoi is nice to go n have a quick bishonen fix though,haha~

Dinco

June 25th, 2006, 11:28 PM

I'm going to say anime fandom is kinda biased in favor of yaoi. I say this becuase whenever a new yuri show comes out theres always a bunch of people screaming "they made them lesbians to cash in, blah, blah" but yaoi anime gets no such bad publicity. Its this fangirl culture that has risen up in the US that is partly to blame for the double standards, I think. I know plenty of straight girls who like shoujo-ai/yuri, but I'm sure the majority of them are still homophobic, and are more homophobic about two girls hooking up than two bishounens. There are guys out there who are just as bad, but I think the females out number them maybe. Yuri fandom on the other hand I think is about 4/7 female and 3/7 male. The largest percentage of the fans are indeed lesbians, but I've seen everyone from every other orientation as well. I don't know much about yaoi fandom, becuase I haven't participated in it mainly because I just haven't come across many shows that have interested me yet.

dunno001

June 26th, 2006, 04:58 PM

I'm going to say anime fandom is kinda biased in favor of yaoi. I say this becuase whenever a new yuri show comes out theres always a bunch of people screaming "they made them lesbians to cash in, blah, blah"

Honestly, I've never heard this before. Actually, I always hear people complaining that they're not enough yuri, despite the fact that there's not a lot of new yaoi anime, either.

There are guys out there who are just as bad, but I think the females out number them maybe.

We must be in 2 completely seperate areas, then. Yes, there are some females who are against yuri, but there's far more guys against yaoi. My experiences show that women as a group are more accepting of social deviations than men. The ironic part is that it's almost always guys who say that 2 guys together is gross and wrong, yet they love seeing 2 women together.

I don't know much about yaoi fandom, becuase I haven't participated in it mainly because I just haven't come across many shows that have interested me yet.

Honestly, the worst part of it is the screaming fans. Most yaoi fans are also tolerant of yuri, which is something I can't say in reverse. (I would guess the reverse to be about half.)

Dinco

June 26th, 2006, 05:44 PM

My experiences show that women as a group are more accepting of social deviations than men.
I don't think thats really true. Women go to vote for anti-gay rights reasons in just as big numbers as men do. I would expect the majority of women in the US are still anti-gay. I'm not talking about women over all though, I'm talking about different sub-factions. Yaoi and Yuri are both definitely dominated by female fans of course, so it would be just stupid to talk about females in general.

But theres a section of females who have adverse reaction to yuri and think it only can exist for fan-service and for perverts. I've read many posts and reviews by girls who just whig out after they watched a show and it had yuri in it. Males too, but they aren't nearly as vengeful. I'm sure theres a number of things that go into this. If you want to get into psychological explanations of why they would be more ok with yaoi, some of us may have been familar with the females at school who had the most-likely gay guy as a close friend, but the lesbians remain outsted from their inner circle. Related (but sorta off-topic) to that I'm familar with people who claimed that bi-sexuals and lesbians at school were only pretending. Then simularly I've encountered fandoms with obviously lesbian characters who are just said to just have "respect" or are gender confused and will end up with a guy once they get their head straight (and they like using that exact pun as well). Maybe I'm not talking about actual yaoi fans per say, but just more certain breeds of generic anime fangirls.

Of course yaoi fans may get as much crap, I'm not sure, becuase yeah I'm not involved in that fandom. But one thing is true, yaoi definitely gets about 10 times more attention, so its biased in that sense. But I honeslty don't know any yuri fans who are anti-yaoi. I've seen maybe one person, but I don't think it was the idea of guy/guy love that set her off. Most hardcore yuri fans are females though (hek most yuri is in shoujo manga and shows), with a smaller but sizeable percentage of male fans, not all horny males looking for hot girl on girl action like some people have portrayed them as. You're right about the homophobic guys who say girl/girl is hot, but I don't think they are the same fans I'm talking about. I'm sure this topic is too complicated for me to have a firm grasp on what I'm talking about, so sorry if this has been going no where.

yaoi_boy87

July 19th, 2006, 07:14 PM

yaoi rocks of course.

It always seemed to me that girls are more accepting of homosexuality than guys. Just in general from my own experience.

ArcaJ

July 20th, 2006, 09:19 AM

yaoi rocks of course.

It always seemed to me that girls are more accepting of homosexuality than guys. Just in general from my own experience.

You haven't met my mother then... >_<

::HUGS::

Arca Jeth

Jiyuu

July 20th, 2006, 10:51 AM

I think that accepting homosexuality is up only to the person...Even if there r countless countries and religions where homosexuality is forbidden, there r many as well where ppl accept it.
It's not up to genres...There r just those who don't accept it and those who do accept homosexuality...
I can agree thou at one point...Many guys like lesbians and yuri, but the number of the girls who like yaoi or even shounen-ai is clearly less.
I think it's because they think that lovemaking between two guys is disgustig. Well if they think that a gay relatioship is only about sex, then they r really closeminded,
and when they hear the the word gay, they thinking about only this part rite then and there... That's just stupid...I'm not saying that every each ppl in the world should like yaoi or yuri like us, but accepting them is a different thing.That means someone won't *****ing about them, or look at them differently cuz they'r homosexuals... That's all i think :P

Insertnamehere

July 25th, 2006, 01:04 PM

I always seem to be the black sheep when it comes to these gender arguments. Most of my friends are guys, and not a single one of them have a problem with yaoi(though they make jokes about it, just like they make jokes about nerds and stuff like that). The only person who has had a conflict with yaoi so far has been my mother.

This being said, I think it's more of a generation thing than a gender thing. Men and women walk both ways of the street, being homophobic and borderline gay(if not gay itself). The difference is this, society gives women a handicap. They want to believe that women are pure like that. I remember seeing a picture of a girl cosplaying who wasn't so attractive, and a bunch of people started saying it was a dude. People were so blinded by media in general that they forgot that real women aren't that perfect, and the same thing happens with personalities. A woman can do something wrong but most people around them won't judge her for it. Well that's not always the case, but it does alter this ratio you guys are speaking of.

Me? I personally like yaoi. Women seem to make love into more than it should be, applying all these rules and structures to something that's suppose to be innate and beautiful. Part of these rules is the notion that sex is such a bad thing, which many of you have already pointed out being a bad thing about yaoi. Sex is natural and also beautiful(well usually), and guys are much better than girls at it =P So yaoi it is!

Mugs

July 28th, 2006, 09:20 AM

I like both yaoi and yuri, but I rarely get to indulge on yuri due to the lack of series. So I have to say out of the two I prefer yaoi.

Mr. Chicken

July 28th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Both make great story lines but I perfer Yuri easly. I'm a guy what do you suspect?

mephisto2k

July 30th, 2006, 03:35 AM

Well its obvious that every man would prefer yuri and every girl would prefer yaoi. Obviously i like yuri.

LostCause

August 4th, 2006, 01:47 AM

Well its obvious that every man would prefer yuri and every girl would prefer yaoi. Obviously i like yuri.

You haven't read this thread from the beggining,or even a few pages back; have you?

Obvious........ Nothing.........

typhonblue

August 5th, 2006, 11:35 PM

Well its obvious that every man would prefer yuri and every girl would prefer yaoi. Obviously i like yuri.

How would you classify my husband? Yaoi and Yuri bore him. He prefers motorcycles.

Animematt55

August 6th, 2006, 11:30 AM

How would you classify my husband? Yaoi and Yuri bore him. He prefers motorcycles.
a gearhead? oil for brains? soemthing like that.....

typhonblue

August 6th, 2006, 02:43 PM

a gearhead? oil for brains? soemthing like that.....

I guess you automatically dismiss him because he doesn't like yuri.

Welp... at least he doesn't have p*ss-flaps for brains.

Animematt55

August 6th, 2006, 03:43 PM

I guess you automatically dismiss him because he doesn't like yuri.

Welp... at least he doesn't have p*ss-flaps for brains.
it was a joke.....wow...jeez. He likes workign on motorcycles. Someone that enjoys working on machines = gear head.
I just made up oil for braisn cause most vehicals run on oil.

typhonblue

August 6th, 2006, 06:43 PM

it was a joke.....wow...jeez. He likes workign on motorcycles. Someone that enjoys working on machines = gear head.
I just made up oil for braisn cause most vehicals run on oil.

Wow... jeeze... "p*ss flaps for brains" was just a joke too!

And I made up "p*ss flaps" because most yuri involves "p*ss flaps."

Animematt55

August 6th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Wow... jeeze... "p*ss flaps for brains" was just a joke too!

And I made up "p*ss flaps" because most yuri involves "p*ss flaps."
you totally lost me.....There is also no need to be so crude.

typhonblue

August 6th, 2006, 06:52 PM

you totally lost me.....There is also no need to be so crude.

Oh... but there *is*. I'm afraid I've got a hate-on for miss manners. I gotsta kill that biatch.

Animematt55

August 6th, 2006, 06:57 PM

Oh... but there *is*. I'm afraid I've got a hate-on for miss manners. I gotsta kill that biatch.
i am not followign you at all.

Crawlspace

August 6th, 2006, 08:54 PM

i am not followign you at all.
No one is. She just seems to be angry because... well, I'm not sure. Maybe because her husband doesn't like either yaoi or yuri and since this is a yaoi/yuri thread he doesn't have a place here? Oh, and I'd classify him as someone who doesn't like yaoi or yuri. A non-fanboy, perhaps? He's got a lot of company out there, just not in this thread. ^_^

typhonblue

August 6th, 2006, 08:59 PM

No one is. She just seems to be angry because... well, I'm not sure. Maybe because her husband doesn't like either yaoi or yuri and since this is a yaoi/yuri thread he doesn't have a place here? Oh, and I'd classify him as someone who doesn't like yaoi or yuri. A non-fanboy, perhaps? He's got a lot of company out there, just not in this thread. ^_^

I'm not angry. :P I'm just having fun with Matt.

And, technically, the post in question dichotomized *all* men and women into two catagories. Which includes... well... *all* men and women.

Animematt55

August 6th, 2006, 09:06 PM

I'm not angry. :P I'm just having fun with Matt.

And, technically, the post in question dichotomized *all* men and women into two catagories. Which includes... well... *all* men and women.
Well you were being extremely crude.

typhonblue

August 6th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Well you were being extremely crude.

What can I say? I'm a tom-boyish girl. I like crude.

Lockheart

August 7th, 2006, 03:57 AM

*brushes off the spam*

What's new in the yaoi front?

- DMP setting up a new yaoi label, this time for hardcore yaoi manga. (How many yaoi publishers do we have in America already?)

- Clamp is starting to throw in even more yaoi hints in their series. The fandom unsurprisingly goes nuts. Everyone's pairings are sailing, hopefully, mine will too! *waves from the Seishirou/Subaru ship*

- There's new yaoi shota porn coming out. Me suspects they did it to give that new Japan law the middle finger.

- Kudos to the movie King and the Clown for breaking records in Korea. (I know it's a bit late, but I was surprised to see such conservative communities in Korea accept this movie, knowing its homosexual theme. When I watched it, I could understand why. Cheers.)

- Squealing, braindead fangirls are still annoying. Shut the **** up, thanks.

As for the yuri front.

- Shizuma x Nagisa is boring, I'm sorry. I skipped everything except for Amane x Hikari bits, which I fell in love with. Feeling sorry for Yaya, but that AxH shot in Strawberry Panic OP made me flail with love. :P

So, um, to answer the topic again, I lean more on yaoi, though I'm partial to yuri a little too.

Animematt55

August 7th, 2006, 02:01 PM

DazzleKitty

August 7th, 2006, 06:24 PM

*cracks* dear god, there is too much Yaoi....and not even good yaoi....its looks liek it is just all porn.....(besides the clamp stuff, but i hope they throw in my yuri hints too, i liek SakuraXtomoyo)

Yep, once again it's all porn. Kyo Kara Maoh, Loveless, Gravitation, Sukisho, Gakuen Heaven, Mirage of Blaze....nothing but a pile of dirty, nasty, plotless smut.

- There's new yaoi shota porn coming out. Me suspects they did it to give that new Japan law the middle finger.

I saw the preview for that. I think it will be okay, but I don't like how the little boy looks exactly like a girl. If one didn't know better, they would think he actually is a girl.

Animematt55

August 7th, 2006, 07:05 PM

- DMP setting up a new yaoi label, this time for hardcore yaoi manga. (How many yaoi publishers do we have in America already?)

- There's new yaoi shota porn coming out. Me suspects they did it to give that new Japan law the middle finger.

Looks like it is just going to be a bunch of useless smut to me....

DazzleKitty

August 7th, 2006, 07:09 PM

Looks like it is just going to be a bunch of useless smut to me....

Why do you dislike smut so much? You need some smut to balance out the fluffy romances.

Animematt55

August 7th, 2006, 07:12 PM

Why do you dislike smut so much? You need some smut to balance out the fluffy romances.
if i wanna see crappy story line, and ugly peole have sex, i will go rent an American Porno film.....

DazzleKitty

August 7th, 2006, 07:12 PM

I'm sorry you don't like smut. :( But most of them aren't ugly in manga.

Animematt55

August 7th, 2006, 07:13 PM

I'm sorry you don't like smut. :( But most of them aren't ugly in manga.
That's your opinion. I think most of them are pretty damn homely.

DazzleKitty

August 7th, 2006, 07:16 PM

I guess that's true. To each their own.

badbaby92

August 15th, 2006, 10:52 PM

What do the yuri girls do when they get their periods? Who'd want to touch their pussycats, much less give them oral?

If they DO do it, it must look like a murder scene when they are done....or like they've been eating strawberry jelly. Yum!
OMG, what's happening here? ...I guess DazzleKitty is a girl right? How come did you degrade females in general just to protect your flavor for yaoi like that? Have you ever had sex with your boyfriend when you have your periods? If so, I guess you must've served him an oral instead of using the traditional way. (sorry guys for being so blatant)

(i know it is kinda late to response to DazzleKitty's post, but i was very irritated after reading those words)

badbaby92

August 16th, 2006, 12:02 AM

i'm neutral here... i'm a straight girl.... i watch both yuri and yaoi....

i like yaoi because of the sex part (my own opinion :P :naughty: they made me wet -_-;:redface: ) such as in Haru wo Daiteita, Kizuna, Level C, Papa to Kiss In The Dark, etc. or shounen-ai like Gakuen Heaven, Princess Princess(light shounen-ai, one of my favs) etc. ... i dont like the romance part in most of them because it's just too drama, i myself cant imagine men in real life saying stuff like that... thinking back and forth, most of yaoi anime target at fangirls, SO it makes sense.

i like yuri (shoujo ai side) because of the romance love.... (Maria-sama ga Miteru is my favorite, even though it still didn't reach the climax i expected, hope the third season will do)... i dont like Strawberry Panic, it seems hardcore to me cuz i'm a girl i dont really like watching hardcore relationships between girls. i prefer watching the sweet romance relationships developing... there are some nice short manga on Lililicious such as Even If We're not Friends (it's very nice and sweet, my fav) despite some stories that are just very pointless, make no sense at all :unsure:

DazzleKitty

August 16th, 2006, 12:46 AM

OMG, what's happening here? ...I guess DazzleKitty is a girl right? How come did you degrade females in general just to protect your flavor for yaoi like that? Have you ever had sex with your boyfriend when you have your periods? If so, I guess you must've served him an oral instead of using the traditional way. (sorry guys for being so blatant)

No, I am not degrading my gender. As a matter of fact, I am somewhat of a feminist.
I've never had sex nor a boyfriend, sadly. If I did and I was on my period, what would I do? I'd tell him "Let's go paint the walls red, baby!!"

The reason I said that was because animematt was making fun of yaoi by saying all the guys get hemroids. I was countering this stupid comment made by him. If he can get away with his stupid comments, I should be able to get away with my own.

And I didn't mean it in a serious way. Animematt's comment ticked me off. Once in a while it wouldn't hurt if he said things like that, but he's always doing it....

badbaby92

August 16th, 2006, 02:35 AM

i've read the whole thread. the argument is so fascinating. it made me burst in to laughters a lot of times. you guys all have your own solid point of view. it seems like others could hardly change it.

animematt desperately protected yuri genre from typhonblue, dazzlekitty, and lostcause.

its right that gay men are more discriminated against in the society than lesbians (real life). i guess it's easy to understand because for a very long long time, relationships between girlfriends tend to be closer than ones between boyfriends. its more acceptable to see girls holding hands or touching in the public than guys because a lot of straight girls also do that. guys, on the other hand, are supposed to be masculine. therefore, the relationship between men are supposed to be more distant, independent from each others (since ancient times). i was not sure how to put into words but i guess you guys could get the concept already. most ppl just hasn't gotten used to seeing men on men yet, but they will, just a matter of time.

{NG}Fidel

August 16th, 2006, 05:49 AM

I am somewhat of a feminist
I feel that while one is normally much more comfterble with their own gender favouring either gender over the other is a bad idea. I treat people as people not as Men and Women. And neither Yaoi or Yuri is better than the other. To think that one could is simply foolish. This is a battle of opinion and no opinion can ever truly be proven wrong to the individual. Allthough many bad opinions exist this is not a scenario where either opinion is worse than the other.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 02:51 PM

typhonblue

August 16th, 2006, 03:23 PM

well from reading more of the thread, it looks liek Yaoi is only popular for the sex....that makes me laugh, cause yaoi girls always put themselves above the standard hentai fanboy...when they are the exact same thing...... ANd yes Dazzle, it did sound like you were degrading your gender, most yaoi fangirls do sound that way. Constantly hating all anime females for no reason....

er... and you haven't noticed the guys on this forum that degrade their *own* gender?

BTW, "yaoi girls always put themselves above the standard hentai fanboy". Well, I don't. So your premise is invalidated.

And since Yaoi is male-male hentai, it pretty much stands to reason that people who read it are in it for the sex, or are in it, in a large part, for the sex.

Is it the same thing for shounen-ai? Somehow I doubt it, considering the lack of sex.

I like some male characters....but there are a lot more female characters in anime anyways...I am also not a fan of the shonen genre either.
here are some off the top of my head

I can see why we don't see eye to eye. I only read shounen and BL, I can't stand Shoujo.

DazzleKitty

August 16th, 2006, 04:08 PM

Right Matt, it's not like you have EVER degraded men. You only make fun of their body odor, their body hair, and the fact that girls like their p*ss sticks. And not the mention the fact you made fun of gay men for hemroids. You never degrade anyone!
Only a part of fangirls hate anime girls. You make it sound like almost all of them do. And you know, sometimes I can't help but sympathize with them. After all, as you said, anime DOES have more female characters. It's only natural they would get frustrated at the lack of male characters. After all, fanboys get lots of bishoujo and cool anime girls to ogle over. Most anime always caters more to guys, even some shoujo anime. I think it it were more even, fangirls probably wouldn't mind some female characters. I get mad because fanboys complain about not having enough yuri. They have a lot more stuff in the anime department than the fangirls do.

It's quite funny, someone got on me for degrading women, so I try to redeem myself for saying I am a bit of a feminist, then someone else jumps me. There is no pleasing people. :P
Just as a note, I am not one of those crazy feminists. However, I can't stand how in many different religions, women are viewed as lower beings. And still in some countries, women have no rights (mainly Middle Eastern ones).
And about the period thing, if I guy ever came up to me and rude comment about me being 'on the rag', I would punch him.
Matt, you also told me one time on AIM that women made too big of a deal out of periods. I thought that was degrading, especially since you have a penis and you will never experience the horrors of bleeding from it or bad cramps. You don't know what it's like to have one, so you shouldn't say a damn thing about it. If you get a sex change, then you can say periods aren't that bad, but not until then.
Really though, I can't believe you people all think I was degrading my own gender when other people here have said worse things. When I woman says it, I figured it would be taken more lightly than if a guy said it. I am surprised people took such offense to it. Sorry. But I feel I can make fun of my own bodily functions, thank you.

typhonblue

August 16th, 2006, 04:17 PM

You don't know what it's like to have one, so you shouldn't say a damn thing about it. If you get a sex change, then you can say periods aren't that bad, but not until then.

Even if he did have a sex change, he wouldn't experience having a menstral cycle as he would not have a uterus or ovaries.

{NG}Fidel

August 16th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Is this an arguement about how many more male characters their are in anime compared to girls and how its either unfair or correct?
Can we just stop this. Its obvious Prefrance and opinion are the only deciding factors as to weather Yuri or Yaoi are better.
Dazzle kitty has her points and its unfair of you matt to complain about how others react to a situation you will never know. At the same time I get thrown in to the cateogry as many other guys do for beign a perv or this and that when Im not. BTW I dont watch either Yaoi or Yuri because nothing Ive seen has ever caught my eye. But the battle between the genders in these threads always spikes my intrest. Also Dazzle your point about how women are treated oft in other countries and you being upset doesnt make you a femenist but a humanitarian. Atop of that if you get the idea that I ever said you were degrading your own gender sorry because I did not mean to make that impression onto you.

badbaby92

August 16th, 2006, 04:46 PM

...I can see why we don't see eye to eye. I only read shounen and BL, I can't stand Shoujo.

I don't know if typhonblue is a boy or a girl. But I myself as an Asian girl really enjoy watching shoujo anime. There's a shoujo anime you guys definitely should check it out, Ouran High School Host Club. It may change your point of view. Btw, there's also light shounen-ai (twincest) in it. :naughty:
Coming from an Asia country to America, I somewhat understand why there are not a lot of Shoujo fans. just different cultures, different ways of thinking, different traditions, etc.

Like animematt, i'm not a fan of shounen anime either. big boob girls and violence are just not my taste; instead, it irritates me sometimes. however, there are a few shounen anime i do like such as .hack//LOT (also called .hack//DUST), Fullmetal Alchemist, Noir, etc.

to keep myself from digressing from the original topic about yaoi/yuri:
i like both so much and it depends of my mood what i would watch, but for me no genre is superior to the other they just have their good and bad points and depends of your mood or tastes which one you like more
i agree with both hands raising. but right now, my mood's telling me I'd like to watch a romance shoujo anime (straight one :lol: )

.

DazzleKitty

August 16th, 2006, 05:09 PM

Also Dazzle your point about how women are treated oft in other countries and you being upset doesnt make you a femenist but a humanitarian. Atop of that if you get the idea that I ever said you were degrading your own gender sorry because I did not mean to make that impression onto you.

I know this may sound dumb, but I never knew what a humanitarian was. It think it's a much better word to use than feminist, so thank you for pointing it out. And that's okay about the impression thing. Sorry about getting on your case as well.

I just want to say sorry if I did offend people in this thread(and I am sorry to those I DID offend). Sometimes I feel like I can be very rude without intending to, especially when I am debating or arguing in something. :redface:

And badbaby92, I am also more fond of shoujo anime. I like a lot of shounen, but I favor shoujo. I wish that shoujo anime was more popular here in America.
And Ouran is a good recommendation for a non-shoujo fan. It's very different from your typical shoujo anime, especially lead female character.

{NG}Fidel

August 16th, 2006, 05:25 PM

Sorry about getting on your case as well.
No need to apolagize.
Gender Based Stereotyping among other things needs to stop. It hurts Men Women and Children and in and of itself it is childish.
I just hope we all see that here.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 06:50 PM

I don't know if typhonblue is a boy or a girl. But I myself as an Asian girl really enjoy watching shoujo anime. There's a shoujo anime you guys definitely should check it out, Ouran High School Host Club. It may change your point of view. Btw, there's also light shounen-ai (twincest) in it. :naughty:
Coming from an Asia country to America, I somewhat understand why there are not a lot of Shoujo fans. just different cultures, different ways of thinking, different traditions, etc.

Like animematt, i'm not a fan of shounen anime either. big boob girls and violence are just not my taste; instead, it irritates me sometimes. however, there are a few shounen anime i do like such as .hack//LOT (also called .hack//DUST), Fullmetal Alchemist, Noir, etc.

to keep myself from digressing from the original topic about yaoi/yuri:

i agree with both hands raising. but right now, my mood's telling me I'd like to watch a romance shoujo anime (straight one :lol: )

.
Yes, Girls in Asian (especially Japan) tend to be much much more open minded when it comes to certain things. Like they don't complain if a female charater can't do soemthing, or falls in love with a guy (doesn't mean she is weak or whiny). I often here girls (particulally yaoi girls) complain that anime girls are all "big breasted bimbos that are to whiny" stuff like that. I really don't get it...
Anyways, i am planning on seeing/reading Ouran High School Host Club....i love gilrs in drag ^^ like in Hana Kimi.

typhonblue

August 16th, 2006, 07:37 PM

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 07:47 PM

From the top of my head....i have noticed A LOT of girls hate Naru from Love Hina. Reason? She is always shown naked in the bath, and she punches the main character a lot......

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 07:57 PM

I can't stand most straight relationships in shounen anime, becuase the girl usually falls head over heels for the biggest loser in the history of the earth for little or no reason and then proceeds to act like a complete tool for the rest of the show. I can understand why certain females would come to despise that, it is very sexist.

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 08:04 PM

yeah...i still don't get why yaoi girls don't like straight relationships.....
In fact i can't think of any examples of what Dinco listed.
What about in Yaoi when some little sissy uke falls head over heels with some jerk, or the guy that raped him?

Dinco

August 16th, 2006, 08:12 PM

Thats pretty much the case with every shounen romance anime ever made, I'm not giving examples. But maybe yaoi fangirls like yaoi, becuase thats what they like? I admit I like mostly yuri relationships. Theres not a good reason behind it, its just my preference. I don't see why you care so much about it.

typhonblue

August 16th, 2006, 08:15 PM

From the top of my head....i have noticed A LOT of girls hate Naru from Love Hina. Reason? She is always shown naked in the bath, and she punches the main character a lot......

Er... so what I'm getting is this. Naru is an abusive exhibitionist.

What's not to love?

Animematt55

August 16th, 2006, 08:34 PM

it isn't logical, that's what.
So a guy falling head over heels in love and becomign a doormat to some jerk is ok, or 'cute'. But if it is a female, it isn't?
And damn straight about Naru.....Although Suu is funner...

typhonblue

August 16th, 2006, 09:25 PM

[QUOTE=Animematt55]it isn't logical, that's what.
So a guy falling head over heels in love and becomign a doormat to some jerk is ok, or 'cute'. But if it is a female, it isn't?
[QUOTE]

*Tries to remember if any of her favorite yaoi/shonen-ai has a guy becoming a doormat to a jerk*

Well, if there was a yaoi/shounen-ai story like that I'd probably enjoy it in a sick and twisted way, just like I'd enjoy it in a sick and twisted way if it involved a woman and a male jerk. But only if the authors *knew* it was sick and twisted and played it as such.

The unfortunate truth is that a lot of het romance seems to involve a man falling for an abusive female jerk or "ice princess." He subsequently endures her abusive behavior until the point that he debases himself enough, perhaps by castrating himself in her name, that she denigns to notice him. And all that is played off as normal and healthy, not sick and twisted.

It sounds more like a BDSM dominatrix fantasy. Which is perfectly fine if all parties, including the author, are *aware* of it being sick and twisted and that it isn't a model for a healthy romance.

DazzleKitty

August 17th, 2006, 12:49 AM

Yes, Girls in Asian (especially Japan) tend to be much much more open minded when it comes to certain things. Like they don't complain if a female charater can't do soemthing, or falls in love with a guy (doesn't mean she is weak or whiny). I often here girls (particulally yaoi girls) complain that anime girls are all "big breasted bimbos that are to whiny" stuff like that. I really don't get it...
Have you ever been to Japan? Have you actually interviewed a bunch of yaoi fangirls there?
I will agree that a lot of anime girls are whiney. Those are the kinds I dislike. And about Naru, I have yet to see Love Hina, but I know that character type, and I don't like anime girls like her. I don't care that she is naked a lot, because she is a character from a fanservice harem anime, so of course she will be naked a lot. I just don't like how those types of girls punch the main character when he accidently sees her naked, or grabs her the wrong way by mistake. The types of anime girls that always scream 'pervert' rub me the wrong way too.
But saying this, there are a LOT of anime girls I do like. Why don't you come up with a list of members here at AN that hate anime girls?
I noticed that a lot of Kannazuki fans hate Souma. Why? I think the underlying factor in this is because he is a guy who is in the way of the main yuri pairing. Plus, at the forum I see these guys at, the all fawn over the female characters and ignore the male. They seem to be the male versions of fangirls. Why don't you go pick on them?

yeah...i still don't get why yaoi girls don't like straight relationships.....
In fact i can't think of any examples of what Dinco listed.
What about in Yaoi when some little sissy uke falls head over heels with some jerk, or the guy that raped him?

Firstly, I am a yaoi fan. I like straight relationships too. Actually, over at aarinfantasy, there are some girls who like straight relationships. In Ouran, they all prefer Haruhi to end up with one of the guys instead of it being a yaoi anime.
Okay, so you don't like one of the main yaoi stereotypes with the sissy raped uke and all.... I mean, why do you even need a reason for that? If you insist on turning that into a deep subject, why don't we get all philosphical about why you like yuri?
I guess a lot of yaoi fangirls like myself find that domineering, possessive, sexy guys (aka most semes) are hot. Yes, I find the whole rape thing to be hot. I can't help it. I'm sorry I do. I find the ukes to be cute. I think that girls don't mind seeing this sort of thing happen to a guy, rather than a girl.
I can't explain it. I know I like it, and many fangirls do.
I remember something videlcoolgirl said on another thread...ah, here it is:
The only thing about more shoujo-ai is the fact that it all seems to have more of a apect of "tall horny girl nearly rapes the cuter, not horny girl." I dont watch series like Strawberry Panic, KnD and things of that nature becasue of that.
It sounds a lot like the whole yaoi rape thing to me. One girl at aarinfantasy said that shoujo-ai is kinda like yaoi with all female characters. So, if that's true, then a lot of shoujo-ai must have the same issues Matt has against yaoi.

This topic just can't be dropped, can it? :P

ZoharContact

August 17th, 2006, 10:26 AM

Just as a note, I am not one of those crazy feminists. However, I can't stand how in many different religions, women are viewed as lower beings. And still in some countries, women have no rights (mainly Middle Eastern ones).There are probably many people here who would call me a "crazy feminist." However, just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you're a female supremacist. That includes me, since I'm for equality... just a fleeting addition on my part. Moving on...Really though, I can't believe you people all think I was degrading my own gender when other people here have said worse things. When I woman says it, I figured it would be taken more lightly than if a guy said it. I am surprised people took such offense to it. Sorry. But I feel I can make fun of my own bodily functions, thank you.Not so much "degrading gender" as taking cheap shots at homosexual sex. I know it was just a response to Matt's remark, but both the hemorrhoid thing and the "red wings" thing were equally bad. Yech. Let's just put it behind us. I don't want to sound vindictive.I noticed that a lot of Kannazuki fans hate Souma. Why? I think the underlying factor in this is because he is a guy who is in the way of the main yuri pairing.I think the biggest factor, actually, is that he represents the biggest downside to that anime: the mech battles. Also, that "Uooooooo!" thing makes it really fun to pick on him. As a contender for the heroine, I thought he was fantastic, because in many ways he was the "perfect guy." That probably doesn't ring true for every KnM fan, but I think it does for quite a few... maybe. I'm not denying that yuri fans would dislike a male character for "getting in the way," but there honestly are not many yuri anime where a romance triangle occurs between yuri/het characters. I'd actually like to see more anime like that. (Oh, and by the way, Japanese yuri fans are much worse about wanting men completely out of the picture.)The unfortunate truth is that a lot of het romance seems to involve a man falling for an abusive female jerk or "ice princess." He subsequently endures her abusive behavior until the point that he debases himself enough, perhaps by castrating himself in her name, that she denigns to notice him. And all that is played off as normal and healthy, not sick and twisted.Have you ever read Her and My Secret? (Did I get the English title right?) They have a really neat play on that model.

badbaby92

August 17th, 2006, 11:57 AM

The only thing about more shoujo-ai is the fact that it all seems to have more of a apect of "tall horny girl nearly rapes the cuter, not horny girl." I dont watch series like Strawberry Panic, KnD and things of that nature becasue of that.
I don't think shoujo-ai anime has some rape thingy in it. If there's any rape, that anime should be categorized as yuri, not shoujo-ai. For me, Stawberry Panic should be in the YURI category, there's just too much in it. A true shoujo-ai should be something like Marimite or Kannazuki, I think.

About Love Hina, as I've known, it's a shounen anime. So it's understandable that there are naked scenes and girls screaming 'pervert'. That's what most guys wanna watch, isnt it? ;)

typhonblue

August 17th, 2006, 12:44 PM

About Love Hina, as I've known, it's a shounen anime. So it's understandable that there are naked scenes and girls screaming 'pervert'. That's what most guys wanna watch, isnt it? ;)

Why do guys want to watch their sex being insulted? I don't get it.

badbaby92

August 17th, 2006, 01:02 PM

Why do guys want to watch their sex being insulted? I don't get it.
Because usually guys cannot see/find it in real life, so they wanna seek it in a fictional material, just wanna see their dream come true :lol: .
I guess it's a psychologically normal desire. ^_^

hey guys, i'm a girl,i was just guessing. girls of course dont understand much about guys, so they always try to find explanations by themselves :P

typhonblue

August 17th, 2006, 01:14 PM

Their dream is to be called a pervert by a girl?

Erk. That's scary. When guys call me names it isn't a very pleasant experience.

badbaby92

August 17th, 2006, 01:29 PM

hey, but guys are more easy to be sexually aroused than girls. they usually have more 'sexual thoughts'
if you usually listened to a group of guys talking, you would know better. :) i did when i was still with my ex ^__^ , tell ya the truth it's horrible for a shy or Asian traditional girl to listen to lol till now, I dont understand them either LoL.

Animematt55

August 17th, 2006, 02:01 PM

ok, for the last time...the Hemroid joke wasn't from me. It was from an old anime I watched a while ago....jeez.
I am too tired to comment on anything else right now. I will be back when i find something insulting, and annoying to say.

DazzleKitty

August 17th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Because usually guys cannot see/find it in real life, so they wanna seek it in a fictional material, just wanna see their dream come true :lol: .
I guess it's a psychologically normal desire. ^_^

hey guys, i'm a girl,i was just guessing. girls of course dont understand much about guys, so they always try to find explanations by themselves :P

I think that's in interesting way to put it. I never really did understand why so many harem anime does this. Still though, it it's an accidental peek or touch, I don't think the girl should get really angry. Or maybe maybe I'm to lenient. -_-;

Animematt55

August 17th, 2006, 04:12 PM

Well i know that with harem anime, the main character is always "nerdy" or "uncool" because mostly the hot guy will always get the girl. So they put the nice normal guy in that will eventually win her over. It is avoiding the bishonen stereotype.

{NG}Fidel

August 17th, 2006, 05:16 PM

f you usually listened to a group of guys talking, you would know better.

Guys dont all talk about the same things. Sex is a part of life and thus it maybecome asubject. Their are plenty ofgirls I know that talk about sex with me and 'try' toegg me on ad those girs will never get me. After hearing them talk I wont talk about how most girls talk about sex allot because its a generalization.

yaoi_boy87

August 17th, 2006, 10:52 PM

Yep, I know quite a few girls and all they do is talk about boys and sex, its not just the boys.

badbaby92

August 17th, 2006, 10:54 PM

Guys dont all talk about the same things. Sex is a part of life and thus it maybecome asubject. Their are plenty ofgirls I know that talk about sex with me and 'try' toegg me on ad those girs will never get me. After hearing them talk I wont talk about how most girls talk about sex allot because its a generalization.
Uhmm... I was talking about the dominant group you know. Of course there are a lot of other different types/groups of ppl such as.... my bf now ^_^. His flavor for shoujo anime is which makes me love him the most :P. I think guys who like the romance/love in shoujo anime understands girls more than others. I mean they're more gentle. Oh well, i guess i'm kinda off topic.

to animematt: ur favoring to yuri (and shoujoai such as marimite, and not a shounen fan) makes me think ur kinda a sweet guy (a little alike my bf now :lol: ) even though sometimes you just made such nasty responses/posts :P

Animematt55

August 18th, 2006, 12:52 PM

Uhmm... I was talking about the dominant group you know. Of course there are a lot of other different types/groups of ppl such as.... my bf now ^_^. His flavor for shoujo anime is which makes me love him the most :P. I think guys who like the romance/love in shoujo anime understands girls more than others. I mean they're more gentle. Oh well, i guess i'm kinda off topic.

to animematt: ur favoring to yuri (and shoujoai such as marimite, and not a shounen fan) makes me think ur kinda a sweet guy (a little alike my bf now :lol: ) even though sometimes you just made such nasty responses/posts :P
yup..thats me. I am nice, but i can also be a jerk. I consider myself more...honest than rude. Can't hide from the truth.
And yes, girls think about and want sex just as much, if not more than, guys. Hell in HS thats all i overheard girls talk about. Guys, and sex....

ChibiReyMysteri

August 18th, 2006, 10:58 PM

I like both yuri and yaoi, but I like yaoi better

LazyNeko

August 19th, 2006, 11:07 AM

I like yaoi and yuri, depends on which ones available. I like yaoi more though. :P

Zeb

August 19th, 2006, 03:31 PM

I don't mind yaoi, but I prefer yuri *and yesss, I am a girl.*

{NG}Fidel

August 20th, 2006, 01:13 AM

Exactly its not some gender specific thing. Guys can like Yaoi so can Girls so arguing is pointless.

Lovelesswolf

August 25th, 2010, 11:58 AM

P.S. I love both yaoi + yuri, but yaoi more ^^
xxx

rainbowundies

August 25th, 2010, 02:53 PM

Addiced to yaoi, so I consider it number one. I also don't watch yuri, though I have no problem with it. But ya, YAOI. :D

xXxJenniferxXx

August 26th, 2010, 10:16 AM

Yaoi all the way ^_^

kaiser501

September 30th, 2010, 06:45 AM

True there too, nothing much can be done between two girls besides their love and stuff. Guys on the other hand... it can tend to get scary O_o

I agree,
I think Yuri is focus in romance relationship and the girls are soft at nature! so the two of girls in yuri are draw !

But Yaoi, is both are hard and jagged so it's odds nature!

Gen-do

September 30th, 2010, 10:41 AM

Copletely agreed!

Dr. Ezra

October 2nd, 2010, 03:09 AM

I prefer yuri. For whatever reason yaoi is of no interest to me. And I'm female!

PenPen

November 4th, 2010, 02:09 PM

I'll have some yuri please! With a side of yuri. :naughty:

adadqgg

November 4th, 2010, 06:46 PM

I like Yuri but I just thought:

They DO co-exist... when you have Yuri in an anime, all the guys are left out and what do you think they do??? LOL (for what they really do, go find doujinshi... especially on Hetalia and such anime that has almost no female characters).

Mickeymac92

November 6th, 2010, 05:57 PM

Uh, Yuri all the way, for me. but then again, yaoi brings back painful memories for me

Sora N

November 7th, 2010, 01:41 PM

I love Yuri because I’m a lesbian; however, I do like Yaoi as well. ^_^

I really wish that they would make more yuri series…it would be cool if they ever decided to make an action/adventure/fantasy yuri series (think Fushigi Yuugi style since Fushigi Yuugi is my ultimate favorite anime series ) ;) I even wish that they would make all yuri hentai series/OVA’s; however, it seems that they don’t like making all yuri hentai like they do for yaoi…instead they just have a lot of girl-on-girl scenes mixed-in within the straight (heterosexual) hentai.

Some of my favorite Yuri series are Simoun, Strawberry Panic, Maria-sama ga Miteru, Revolutionary Girl Utena , and Blue Drop.

Some of my favorite Yuri “suggested” series are Kurau: Phantom Memory, RIN ~Daughters of Mnemosyne~ (because there is heterosexual and lesbian sex/torture/sexual torture) and Steel Angel Kurumi 2.

Some of my favorite Yaoi series are Gravitation, Yami no Matsuei, Mirage of Blaze, FAKE (both the Manga and OVA) and Kyo Kara Maoh! (while most people would not really consider it to be a shounen-ai/yaoi series I do because there is a lot of Shounen-ai in it!)

DazzleKitty

November 8th, 2010, 12:08 AM

I even wish that they would make all yuri hentai series/OVA’s; however, it seems that they don’t like making all yuri hentai like they do for yaoi…instead they just have a lot of girl-on-girl scenes mixed-in within the straight (heterosexual) hentai.

I've always thought this was a very interesting and odd thing about Japan. In the US (not sure about other countries but I am assuming it is quite popular in some) lesbian porn (or hentai) is very popular with straight males and bi/lesbian girls. I even heard of some straight girls getting enjoyment out of it too.
But gay porn isn't nearly as popular. In the American anime fandom yaoi is certainly popular, of course. But the only people you see interested in gay porn is simply gay men, from what I have heard.

Japan seems to be the opposite. You see far more yaoi and guy on guy. A lot of popular male pop idols engage in guyxguy activities (not overtly sexual, but enough to tease) whereas I don't see this much with female idols.

Japan really seems to love their adult industry and I am just really surprised that there isn't more lesbian entertainment. Then again, they seem to be less fond of lesbians than gay men due to sexism that is still somewhat prominent in their society. Or at least, that is what I have heard from yuri fans.

Or maybe I'm wrong. But it's interesting that it's pretty unpopular there where it's pretty much the opposite everywhere else.

It sucks for you yuri fans. I sympathize.